NBA Tiers Plus the Celtics Get Apron’ed | The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons talks about his updated NBA team tiers and breaks down the Boston Celtics sale
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[@tombrokow8181]

Murray, who has missed 47 percent of Denver’s regular-season games over the past four seasons, is also living proof that Jokic is indeed the most valuable player in the league.

[@JimBob-jr5up]

Joker is a beast of a player but Denvers drafting, signing, team construction in general gets massively overlooked for Joker praise.

[@nyjmacny]

@@JimBob-jr5up It’s a chicken and egg situation. I think playing with Joker makes any front office look competent enough to build a formidable team regardless of “good” construction or “good” draft picks, see denvers success without any other allstars and backup/bench guys in previous seasons.

[@JimBob-jr5up]

@@nyjmacny no, its not a chicken or egg situation. We are fully capable of evaluating and gauging player talent and capabilities on their own as we have been doing for years with this Denver team.

[@chadams7753]

Only 1 ring, who cares how many MVPs the Russian bot has?

[@nyjmacny]

@@JimBob-jr5up​​⁠​⁠​⁠ i know you mean well but you say this as Denver sits here banking on Julian Strawther Peyton Watson Christian Braun 2 injury prone/inconsistent guards to compete in 2025. Joker pushing Aaron Gordon to his ceiling after signing him, does not cover your great player eval and team building argument. It’s literally just Joker raising the team up. They have never paired their MVP with an allstar.

[@nocontentfromoldman5595]

🎶Save...your...tiers for another day🎶

[@ButterBeaverSTAN]

BAAAAANG

[@David-iv6je]

WTF is Denver thinking. Cheapness might have cost them a second ring. They are squandering the peak of a top 10 player.

[@therealdarrell282]

You are surprised? Milwaukee, Denver and Toronto all have won chips. Since then, none of those teams repeated and got back to the Finals. Do you think those fan bases and the local media for those franchises are upset or pushing the team to win? I say no.

[@Jonteponte71]

It looks like it. A thin (but cheaper) roster now puts even more load on him in the regular season. And he has been very healthy so far. If that changes they are truly fucked.

[@willbabb3153]

Top ten? Try top 1

[@therealdarrell282]

@@Jonteponte71 Denver has to take a page from Miami and Boston. You have to take drafting in the second round and signing other teams young players seriously. You can find cheap talent that you can develop that can be contributed off the bench and maybe start.

[@Jonteponte71]

@@therealdarrell282 With the new CBA this is going to be a thing for many good teams. Finding more ready (older) players in the draft that more quickly develops into solid roleplayers. Maybe it will even result in less "one and done" players from college. Like in the 70's and 80's?

[@JoelGraves]

The fact that the CBA grants massive contracts to worthy players at the expense of keeping quality teams together is gonna be a huge part of the next negotiation as it sucks to see potential dynasty level teams fall apart financially well before they fall apart on the court.

[@tonyschimmoeller]

It's probably a typo or missed word but you're saying worthy players getting big contracts is bad? The new CBA is currently making the league extremely competitive. Dynasties are still possible if front offices do a good job such as Boston trading for White, KP, and Jrue. All 3 can be resigned regardless of the 2nd apron because they got players with bird rights. Basically, if the front office is smart, they can still do what's needed.

[@Sticktothemodels]

@@jamesball574335% guarantees that you can only max 2 players though. With 25% you could easily max 3 which is precisely what they didn’t want

[@Colinkrauss1]

The CBA doesn’t grant anything. It just penalizes huge payrolls.

[@johnnycash8567]

There just won’t be any more dynasties and that’s not really a problem

[@liljackypaper]

Celtics have all their starters making between $30-60 million a year going forward. You can do it it's just not cheap

[@915tarponlegend]

Bill has a point because back in the 80s and 90s those teams were special because those stars were on those teams the whole time. Sure some pieces changed here and there but it wasn’t anywhere near what it is today.

[@razkable]

Yeah but if you were not the 76ers in the early to mid 80's out east or celtics for most of the 80's and in the west lakers or rockets in the entire 80's and after 86 just lakers maybe 87 and then later 80's pistons in the east you had no chance....that isn't good for the sport...76ers got 1 title....sonics going into 1979-1980 were defending champs bullets were defending east champs and in 1989 the blazers put together a squad that could win the 1990 west and the suns beat the lakers in 1990 in an upset circa 1981 41-41 rockets with mvp moses malone but yeah

[@paulsinnott9752]

Spot on.

[@lesbo37]

Part of what made Magic magic was the chemistry with his teammates, he played with the same guys for a decade basically. Same for Bird for the most part. The Bad Boy Pistons as well.

[@Wick9876]

I'd like a CBA that says anyone on a team for at least 8 years doesn't count against the cap. So there'd be no incentive for the Celtics to trade Pierce and KG, and no penalty for the Lakers keeping Kobe.

[@915tarponlegend]

@@Wick9876 I would like a CBA that says you can ONLY get a max with the team that drafts you. Free agents will have to settle for less per year and less years.

[@NewDrovack]

I think Pelicans will surprise people this year (long suffering Knicks fan). Dejonte, Herb, Ingram, Murphy, McCollum, Alvarado and Zion is a deep roster.

[@scottburlington6645]

Unfortunately still no rim protection at all which is a pretty big Achilles heel. But if they can get someone halfway decent at center or Messi is a surprise than everyone is in trouble

[@mambaASI]

can't trust zion health. Dejonte fit is highly questionable.

[@dylancox631]

The NBA finally has a real cap, be smarter in who you pay and who you let walk.

[@PGO_Gaming]

Well said.

[@Alex-xn8pq]

Mavs fan here. Props to the Celtics for playing a great series with a great roster. Mavs moves this offseason will keep them in contention but do not make them favorites. Fine with me. Prefer the underdog role. Mavs finished the regular season 5th in the West. Just the way we like it.

[@nickbecker4067]

Bill wtf are you talking about? 3/5 of the celtics starting lineup is not home grown and they’re deciding to pay those guys all 30m +.

[@Weaponator18]

"Teams that are smart should be rewarded" They are. By winning the freaking title and having a 5 year window. Which is the whole point. Shilling for billionaire owners is always a bad look

[@goodisanoun]

Well they are if you track how they acquired them. All of them were either drafted or traded for using drafted players/picks. Al Horford is the only exception. Well Sam Hauser was a signing but he doesn't count cause he was an undrafted FA.

[@mambaASI]

@@goodisanoun that is not what a home grown player is lol. Fact is they came from other teams, already been in the league several years before joining celtics.

[@casparbenjaminseymour]

if you have a homegrown max player there should be a rule that only 75% of the contract value goes against the cap and if that player is traded the team which gets that player pays 100% of the contract value

[@chadams7753]

Celtics fan 😂

[@jvwilli7]

No I love this idea. Teams should be rewarded for “raising” a max player not drafted in the lottery.

[@MavenFade]

100% agree. The Thunder are another case where this would be helpful, you need players to stay with teams longer for brand recognition, especially with expansion teams on the way

[@RyanSmiddy]

We all watched the warriors penalized for drafting well, the whole point of the max contracts are to keep star players where they are. This would help. Might have to have some nerd do the math to dial in the percentages. Maybe different percentages between the rookie max, max, and supermax. Would be interesting to hear Adam Silver on the topic.

[@casparbenjaminseymour]

@@chadams7753 im a trailblazers fan- not something they have to worry about right now!

[@folkdude01]

That second apron stuff is gonna be coming for OKC soon too. I agree with you on the Spurs, Wemby is really good now, the org should be trying to put the best roster they can while he’s on his rookie deal.

[@Esposo77]

It’s coming for okc but that’s why they never traded any picks. They are going to use all those picks to fill out rotation players. It’s a really smart organization

[@accordingtodrew7302]

They established their core of SGA, Jalen Williams and Chet. The picks are there to help keep rotation players at a premium. Also they secured Wiggins and Joe on cheap deals for the next 4-5 years. They are copying the Celtics but with just more draft picks

[@Shortballa11]

OKC doesn’t have to worry, all their guys are staggered perfectly. And they have so many picks they can replace role players with ease. Also too stacked to let any of their guys get major stats to JDub and Chet will receive maxes bt likely never a super max playing with Shai

[@MrOctober44]

Not sure what you mean by soon. Three or four years, sure. That's a lifetime in basketball.

[@razkable]

I mean they got rid of giddey for an expiring they can let go or sign and trade...dortz is tradeable after next year same for everyone on their bench....i don't know about them having to worry about 2nd apron stuff if jalen and chet don't become like 2nd team all nba players in the next 2 years which for chet is unlikely

[@SweetReed17]

If Indy gets some more development from their young guys, which theres a lot of, they'll be in the contending tier, easy. Nembhard, Mathurin, Walker, could all pop next season. This doesnt include Haliburton developing more and full season of Pascal and Haliburton playing together.

[@johncraig4820]

Please folks just sleep on the Pacers. Defense got much better during the season. Mathurin last game was dominating the Mavs

[@liljackypaper]

Nembhard looked like a straight baller against Boston

[@neilanger2538]

Pacers have a very good team.

[@Cultivated.]

Memphis will be good again, took a year off without Ja and they were bad, but with him they were the 2nd seed

[@alexanderfisher7261]

Football has huge turnover each year.....

[@michaelstover6778]

Porter contract absolutely killing Denver and the lack of playing young guys. But Porter is way too sporadic in the playoffs. They should try to trade him

[@420bengalfan]

I don’t think he is tradable unless they take a bad contract back

[@derekbrown3447]

@@420bengalfan what about 2 contracts that add up, maybe a pistons or hornets team has Grant Williams and Nick Richards to trade

[@razkable]

The young guys suck

[@Rodrickwashington-mf5dk]

Detroit would have took him , Orlando maybe before they spent their money

[@nuggz720]

If the nuggets knew we were losing KCP I don't understand why we're not in the Alex Caruso sweepstakes.

[@johnbrowntheprophet]

The Western Conference playoffs were great. The Eastern Conference playoffs were a bit lacking because of all of the injuries, but that had nothing to do with the new CBA or the new salary cap rules. Even with all of the injuries, most of the non-Celtics Eastern Conference games were close. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@anthonytrevino3191]

This second apron stuff sounds like a big downer all around. For fans, for teams, for everyone

[@razkable]

It's so we never have a kd on the warriors or 87 lakers situation again...they don't want these super duper teams

[@Jiturra01]

​@@razkablewhat was the 87 Lakers situation?

[@calvinwilliams5469]

Having Memphis so low is wild we’ll be a top 5 seed in the west

[@denigster]

first time i agree with bill when he talks about something that will affect his celctics - good drafting teams should be able to hold their guys

[@DunningKrugerJnr]

Then what is the point of having a salary cap? That is literally the point of them 😮 No one cares about keeping role players together; it’s about stars and I’m happy to help teams keep homegrown supermax players perhaps change things so that only the normal max amount counts against the salary and the extra ‘super’ money is like a loyalty bonus for the drafting team…if a supermax player moves on or is traded, then their whole salary counts against the cap 👍

[@TheGsmith97]

They literally can. The Celtics are gonna have to give up one of the 3 $30million/yr guys that they traded for instead lmao

[@bobbybeez858]

The report I saw said Boston would pay 275 this year then almost 600 million in 25-26 that’s def not happening lol

[@razkable]

They gonna trade kp in 2025 and let hauser go...horford retiring helps too....pritchard probably traded...

[@shorewall]

@@razkable Every bench guy needs to go.

[@thewalruswasjason101]

They’re going back to back barring injuries. Worth it. They made 303 million in profit in 2023-2024, and that was before the title

[@IsaiahB0]

@@razkable KP, and Jrue gone plus everything else but I think one of these draft picks will develop into an actual guy

[@EduardoOliveira-zx9ju]

@@thewalruswasjason101 They'll likely win, but they're going to severely cripple their future

[@natelombardo]

The Boston "Yankees"

[@Krankensteinn]

I said exactly that to a Celtics fan friend of mine! Lol

[@El_TigreNegro]

If you're going to have a hard cap with the salary aprons then you should definitely have a tax exception for resigning players that you drafted and/or players that signed their last contract with you

[@beerbatreps3861]

Indiana is literally the definition of a party crasher! Nobody believes in them but they score so many points that a lot of teams just can't keep up.

[@anthonytrevino3191]

They played extremely injured teams in the first two rounds though. East is fairly open besides Boston but you have to wonder how far Halliburton and Siakam will take you

[@BillyOsborne-dy9ei]

Haliburton was injured as well. And nobody says that at all.athurin had a season ending injury and Haliburton had a strain that was never really healed all through the playoffs. So no one really got our full strength either. Pacers will be a top 4 team

[@razkable]

Yeah teams like the cavs magic heat 76ers celtics and bucks do not want to play the pacers pace...the knicks are probably the one team that can handle them easily next year if their guys improve out east

[@noahwert9970]

​​@@anthonytrevino3191 they beat the bucks and Knicks in the regular season series if I recall. I'd at least put them with the Cavs; I'd think Tyrese and Pascal are better than Mitchell and Garland and the pacers are deeper

[@liljackypaper]

​@@anthonytrevino3191they also had the second best offense in NBA history this past year.

[@rileyrussell7476]

Stop pushing your 82 games is too much bs.

[@jacobellis9419]

Reward the Celtics for Tatum and Brown yes, penalize them for trading for 3 Stars to build a dynasty lol

[@liljackypaper]

Derrick White wasn't considered anything close to a star when they traded for him. And they gave up a lot for Jrue. People kind of forget how good Robert Williams could have been before getting hurt again.

[@chadams7753]

Hilarious that the Celtics extend Brown and Tatum and want to get out before they have to pay luxury tax, new owner pays a billion dollar tax bill lmao. Talk about poison pill

[@timothypolanco8622]

Seem like everyone in the media is sleeping on the heat due Butler getting hurt. It's gonna be funny asf to see these folks flip flop once he comes back healthy 💯😆

[@StacheZilla]

Pacers should be no lower than 4th/5th in the East. Got to the ECF a year after picking in the lottery and Mathurin was out half the season. Walker in a second year. Nembhard took a step w/o Hali. They may not have the star power as Boston, Philly or New York but that offense can still score on anyone.

[@brycehamilton9061]

Indiana is definitely a contender if Milwaukee is too

[@danilthorstensson8902]

They need Hali to develop and build a competent team defense first

[@ElTuco84]

@@danilthorstensson8902 They goy lucky facing two injured teams, but they will get better for sure.

[@nuggz720]

The pacers feel like the Hawks from 2 years ago that fell into the Eastern conference finals and now think they're that level

[@benweaver1762]

As a hawks fan, your tier title and our placing couldn’t have been more perfect. We get the #1 pick, then trade our 2nd best player. We have no direction, and it is embarrassing.

[@mambaASI]

it seems that first round pick isn't worth much. I think they are just gonna use it to get a better fitting guy next to trae and see what happens

[@mindyourbuisness8104]

Just get rid of the max contract bull shit and put a hard cap and you will see a lot less stars demanding trades when they cant make the same no matter where they are and you wont be forced to pay second stars like super stars

[@joshuafruth6420]

@@mindyourbuisness8104 completely agree, the worst thing for the NBA is the amount of second rate and lower dudes getting PAID and being able to just strong arm teams and jump around..

[@FalseNi9e]

I completely support this!

[@dallashall529]

The players association would never go for that and honestly they shouldn’t. Players should take as much as they can. The owners do 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@tmacdetroit1]

So the owners get to make all the money and the players get less? That's interesting.

[@KK-pm7ud]

I 100% agree. These people are way overpaid now. I'd rather see the ownership groups keep more.

[@davidburke2453]

Toronto does not want Wiggins. Bill clearly knows nothing about the Raptors. I listen to him just to laugh at how little he knows about the NBA.

[@matthrsh]

I have Klay concerns as well, but if you frame it as replacing THJ with Klay, it feels a lot better.

[@Joeshiesty286]

Everyone is sleeping on the Naji and Grimes pickups. Yall just wait…

[@KleyDeJong]

The Boston situation is interesting. I will push back a little on your points. Rewarding good drafting and a solid nucleus is good. However: 1. Boston having 5 all star level players is not sustainable and should not be a viable option with a league with a salary cap. 2. Boston drafted the J's - but they also were active in the trade market bringing in KP, Jrue, and Derrick White. The main difference between Bos and Phx is that Bos has received assets that fit well together and have risen their individual level of play. Phx meshes poorly and and getting worse.

[@nuggz720]

I am really hoping that whoever they sell a majority share to they don't want to pay half a billion dollars a year in luxury tax and Derek White wants to come back to Denver

[@EduardoOliveira-zx9ju]

@@nuggz720 How can a team generate a profit paying 5 players alone $200M+ next season?

[@Jbf-76]

The Celtics print money and the new ownership group doesn't give a 💩about the tax. Remember I said it.

[@henryfrazier3046]

Shouts to the Zombie Heat. Won the championship and still can’t help yourself. Smh

[@tim.noonan]

Because they’re the only real threat in the East. Every other team will cannibalize itself by the time the playoffs roll around. The Heat just do not fucking die, ever. Somehow they’ll be right back in it next year, just watch.

[@RedbarParadise-ni4cq]

I think it's a toss up between BOS and OKC depends on who's healthy.

[@danielquest8644]

@Bill, re Apron and keeping teams together….. perhaps the solution is rethinking player compensation? I think it’s stupid how much some of these injured guys make to sit on the bench. Probably a pension + more $ for playing winning basketball vs contracts with guaranteed payouts. Thoughts?

[@amc1140]

The Clippers are a feel BAD story😂

[@charold3]

Curry sixth or seventh best in league? On a very good day, maybe. But very good days for him were more frequent three years ago.

[@ssjohnson23]

death, taxes and bill not liking anything dallas does. surprised he didn’t claim this was an all in move despite still having picks and tradeable pieces. yet another bad take from a clown.

[@ashch5867]

Memphis and Indian should be higher

[@Dbo_Sports]

They play 82 games because they’ve always played 82 games in the modern era. If the players can’t get through it, that’s a reflection on them. Not the sport… if someone says: “well the game is played at a much faster rate today”… everyone doesn’t have to play the same way and Jack up 3’s. The teams that are older should be playing inside out and not trying to get a shot up in 8 seconds. The point is, don’t change a fabric of the game because the new generation is soft. They have to get tougher.

[@Jayhawk92]

It's not even the fastest pace of play era NBA history

[@Dbo_Sports]

@@Jayhawk92 Exactly! Maybe their not in shape. You know that they don’t practice. But for Bill to include the 82 game schedule as an hindrance to the players, is why less and less supporters take the NBA seriously. We’ve seen the eras that preceeded this one. And they had no problem playing 82. And now todays players are complaining, while making way more money then the guys that built the sport. Bill lost me on that one.

[@Jayhawk92]

@Dbo_Sports the players are more concerned about being mobile and whatnot after their career is over, which I get, but load management shouldn't be a thing for younger players or players in their prime unless they have a significant injury in their past.

[@jamespratt7526]

The Grizzlies that low is insane. They had a real extinction event level of injury apocalypse last year and people somehow think they fell off. Memphis are way better than LA for example

[@joefried6604]

Knicks Tier 1 Brunson / McCabe Hart / Divenchenzo Robison /OG Randle / OG/ Bridges / Burks -------- BIG 3 Randle ALL NBA Brunson. / 2025 all NBA Bridges Villinova 4 Vegas has them 8th seed

[@nikpetrovic3877]

lol what? for a knicks homer you can't spell (wtf is mccabe?) and apparently think the injury prone OG is worth 2 roster spots 😆

[@joefried6604]

@@nikpetrovic3877 I live in Boca Raton , Florida I am Heat Fan . I make my living from the NBA . You’re a Homosexual troll What kind of man spends his day as quasi Social Media Grammar teacher . Safe to say I am NOT your only student . That in mind I will set the ODDS : Over/ Under at 50 Trolls a day .

[@mctaguer]

You're correct on how this CBA ends up punishing teams who did it the right way. Basically, everyone will now pay the price for Phoenix and Ballmer (and to some degree, the KD era at GSW). Worst of all is, as you said, the probability it makes the playoff product worse as a cost for parity.

[@bookaufman9643]

How can you have Memphis in a tier below the Los Angeles Lakers? They were the two seed when they had the same guys playing for them a couple years ago. Last year they were destroyed by insane injury luck. I don't see the Lakers finishing above the Grizzlies.

[@Coachrod215]

Sixers Drafted Simmoms and Maxey and Embiid. That's Home grown. Jrue white and Porzingas are shuffling the deck. The new CBA you can keep the draft picks but it stops you from having a super team... you Homer

[@jammer9941]

He's a Homer sure but your argument for the sixers being anymore homegrown is off. Simmons would be comparable to smart for home grown guys traded for pieces to get better the Celtics were successful with what they got and the 76ers weren't. Jrue and white would be more comparable to Paul George and oubrey than Maxey and embiid as they are as homegrown as brown and Tatum....

[@iguesss]

They need to reward small market teams for waiving players nobody wants

[@nicklewandowski3877]

I like seeing Spurs in playoffs and cp3 with a DeRozan or Markennan let alone Wemby? my o my

[@JimBob-jr5up]

They def wouldnt bring DD back and Markkanen is the last player youd want if developing Wemby. That said, as they stand they are kind of a perfect cp3 team.

[@liferealgood]

The Hawks situation makes little sense to me. It’s like they are tanking but they aren’t because they have Trae.

[@jasonlighton9636]

I still think they should have kept Murray and moved Young. He can score but ends up as a negative in the +/- category.

[@Twhyte96]

They should make an amendment to the cba ( and they can think about this with much more detail) where players you drafted don’t count towards your tax rate, but still apply to the cap and 1st and Second Apron The concept would be it would still be incredibly hard to continue building an expensive roster, but it wouldn’t be financially impossible for ownerships to maintain expensive cores that were put together smartly

[@nuggz720]

@@Twhyte96 I like the idea for parody sake but I have zero interest in billionaires not willing to pay. They make 50% of NBA revenue pay the freaking tax to win. Kroenke is making my argument.

[@Twhyte96]

@@nuggz720I don’t wanna come off as some ridiculous billionaire defender for sure, but taxes making teams cost 4-500 million a year wouldnt be sustainable for even billionaires aside from the handful of richest

[@hiddengem9742]

What’s going on with bills face? All of sudden his face blew up on his cheeks. It don’t even look right

[@tombrokow8181]

Boozing bro

[@tim.noonan]

Liquor and sunlight is not a good combination for Anglos

[@sherricklayfield5665]

This guy wants a team reward for nonsense stop it

[@yinanzhang3324]

Grizzlies will fuck everybody up

[@victorvic4659]

How grateful from Bill to have team that just make the Finals the 6th best contender. Thanks😊😊😊

[@ccr35582]

You mean Luka, occasionally Kyrie and a bunch of YMCA players? Feel like 6 is fair lol

[@is0morph]

The part I agree with is that the Mavs didn't get that much better. What's simply wrong to say is that it all depends on how Klay looks. Even in the absolute worst case, a worn-down, unmotivated Klay isn't worse than a max. 2min per playoff game THJ.

[@michaelstover6778]

I mean Miami went to the finals last year you think they should have been 6 this year?

[@tim.noonan]

You’re a deeply unserious person

[@dis6900]

No Bill, it's called a salary cap for a reason. It's why teams that win super bowls have to deal with roster turnover with players getting paid. "Home Grown talent" yet the C's signed Jrue and Porzingis while trading for White. Why should teams benefit by drafting players that turn into stars? You either keep those stars and have little depth or you trade them away for picks and depth pieces. Oh, and the Knicks are not a title contender when their best player is a 6 foot guard who doesn't play good defense.

[@tim.noonan]

Teams already benefit by drafting guys that become stars - incumbent teams can offer more money than a team a player may sign with in FA, and another year on the deal (if I’m not mistaken). I do wish Bill would be a little more balanced on this whole issue. Like, where does he think Bird rights came from? lol Red wanted to keep the league from getting hold of Larry’s services so he made Secaucus give the Celtics preferential treatment. It’s okay to suffer from success. It’s gross to act like that’s not what’s happening to the Celtics right now, or will in the near future.

[@nuggz720]

@@dis6900 I think they're 6 ft guard is just a legit hooper who if everyone says healthy can really defend the Celtics with Ananoby and Bridges now. I think it's a legit three horse race to the Eastern conference

[@johnnycash8567]

Disagree with your last sentence. Years prior I would agree with you but there’s so much parody now that it’s possible.

[@danielquest8644]

To everyone who says the Spurs are exiting, I absolutely agree! Anyone who thinks they aren’t at least middle of the pack next year is insane! Play in team is a possibility for sure!

[@NateArchibaldWithTheFro]

Bill Simmons: The book of football coming Q3 2025

[@Schiltzenberger]

Oh no! that sounds like far too many possible tanking teams to me. I'm a Nets fan, I don't want too much competition for the race to the bottom. I thought we were a shoe in for a top 5 pick next year, but it could be a tough battle to get in the bottom 4 teams. I never thought tanking would be so competitive. lol

[@thewalruswasjason101]

The Celtics were brilliant. Lock up what was CLEARLY the best team in the league for the next few years. You go all in when there’s a chance at a dynasty

[@EricCalhoun]

The Luxury Tax shouldn't apply to players drafted by the organization. It's not a "luxury", you drafted well, free agents or trading for players should be the transactions taxed. That, or homegrown players should have a reduced cap number when with the team they were drafted by.

[@rollind2456]

The Celtics salaries are just that, known salaries. Everyone going to be dealing with it

[@Jaydog2012]

The disrespect Memphis keeps receiving is crazy

[@PGO_Gaming]

This was one of the more effeminate arguments ever made by Bill Simmons on his podcast. Players and teams have always had to SACRIFICE to keep the teams together. There is always a player on a team, a key piece, that says "I don't care about winning titles anymore or being successful, I want my money. That has never not been the case. YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING. You cannot have multiple players making max money, AND pay everyone else as well. There has to be a balance or there will be an imbalance of teams at the top which is what the NFL ISN'T. If the Celtics wanted to stay together then Tatum and Brown would have taken less money. That wasn't the case. They took their money so they told you what was important to them in the long run. Jalen Brunson when it comes time, will take less. He has already stated that he will take less to KEEP THE TEAM TOGETHER. That's the point. Understand that, Bill Simmons

[@Krankensteinn]

The NBA doesnt want continuity now. They want every team to feel like they have a shot. The constant switching of players in FA is in their best interest

[@razkable]

People pretend like the 2016 to 2018 kd warriors 2000 to 2002 shaq kobe lakers plus 80's lakers and early to mid 80's celtics the entire 60's celtics and early 50's lakers are good for the nba long term wise..it isn't

[@Jonteponte71]

@@razkable And yet. Casual fans are only interested in two things. Storylines and superstars. Even less people will watch the regular season if you can't even keep track of where the big stars are even playing from year to year. As far as I know, the largest viewership in the playoffs has always been when dynasties are a thing. Like all the years the Warriors and LeBron was in the finals. No dynasty = less interest. It's counter-intuitive but is true.

[@jammer9941]

​@@Jonteponte71 yea it's a weird dynamic where the die hard fans like unpredictability and parity but casual viewers don't necessarily tune in for that

[@cptsketch13]

Bill is so worried about not being able to keep Jayson and Jaylen with the new cap lol. Dude you can keep those guys but Jrue, KP, and others gotta go Bill lol

[@Jonteponte71]

This is going to be the same for every team from now on. If you have two stars on supermaxes and want to keep them you will basically have to make do with scrubs and/or rookies around them. Or you build teams with no superstars and a few good players and hope for the best.

[@JPW3]

Bill used to be all about paying the tax. Now it's a problem.

[@TenaciousAC]

Given what salary Wemby might command in 2027, bring in high quality ‘no ring’ talent the next three seasons and just go for it. Get Paul for two years and at worst, he gets to shape Castle. If you can have a sniff of DeRozan and/or Markkanan…. and that means shifting off Vassell and/or maybe Collins, you might have to go for it. Popovich is playing with house money but also wants more wins. Give him that chance. Fast track to a 40-45 win team now and see what happens. Win more, it’s a bonus. Win less, have short term pieces you can switch out to keep Wemby’s interest in staying a Spur fresh.

[@diegosegurola4523]

I love Bill but his homer Celtics takes are ridiculous. Dynasties are bad for the league because as a consumer they are boring. Teams like the warriors with KD or the Celtics now that pay a billion dollars in luxury tax to buy themselves championships are exactly what the league is trying to eliminate and rightfully so. The problem with the Celtics isn’t that their top 2 guys are getting paid $107 million a year, it’s that their 5th option gets paid $30 fucking million a year. Instead of doing what nearly every other team does and relying on role players to support their stars, the Celtics put together a super team out of fear cuz Tatum and Brown kept getting exposed in the playoffs. Replace Joker and Murray with brown and Tatum, Denver doesn’t win. Replace Luka and Kyrie with Tatum and Brown and Dallas doesn’t win. Would love to hear Bill defend the Yankees paying for championships the way he defends Boston paying $450 million in salary and luxury tax.

[@nicholas372]

I think dynasties are what keeps the NBA less popular than football in the long run. The parity of the NFL gives fans of every team hope. Meanwhile in the NBA, two teams have won HALF of all championships. A solid 1/3 to 1/2 of the league have almost no chance of ever winning a ring. Why be a die hard Hornets fan? If anything, we need a hard cap.

[@ddalwy110]

Blame yourselves for how the NBA is. Instead of enjoying it the media, everyone complained and whined how there was no PARITY when there was. Not enough holding organizations accountable for being shitty. As well as the playoffs comment, injuries derailed that.

[@spicysauce11]

Bill, why would Toronto just take Wiggins for Browns expiring??. His contract is probably the worst in the whole league. Masai ain't taking him unless he gets a few good picks back. We just doing favors for the Warriors because Steph is owed it??

[@mctaguer]

Gotta wonder if Dallas got tunnel vision about not having anyone else who could make above-the-break threes vs. Boston, while assuming they could duplicate their playoff run again. Can they? If they play a clearly-better OKC again or Denver? I wonder if, to a degree, beating Minnesota gave them beer muscles.

[@DunningKrugerJnr]

Bill stays true to form: Cheap shots at Kyrie and the Mavs? Check Hit Lebron and the Lakers with some strays? Check Complain about how unfair things are for the Celtics even though they just dominated the league? Check Such a predictable Boomer 😂

[@razkable]

Cleveland meh...Memphis might be a party crasher...Denver is not a contender anymore...

[@tobyb7559]

New CBA is good for the league. Don't let the top 2-3 teams buy rings because they can afford limitless tax bills. It is going to take a few years but smart GMs will catch up and stop overpaying everyone. Handing out max contracts like candy to every decent player has come to an end.

[@TimothyFitzgerald-s8w]

So many Bill haters but he's the most rational basketball mind that's not in NBA. Yeah I'm from Boston so what?

[@Jayhawk92]

That would be Russillo, not Bill

[@TimothyFitzgerald-s8w]

@@Jayhawk92 I thought him but Bill has some legendary predictions in his time. Just look at some of his Draft takes on Luka and Hali

[@Jayhawk92]

@user-vq8lk8ul4l I mean, both of those were pretty obvious to me. I watched Haliburton plenty while at Iowa State, and watched even 5 minutes of Luka in Europe. Doesn't take a genius to know both would be great. Bill also lets his bias get the best of him frequently. Russillo regularly checks him on it

[@TimothyFitzgerald-s8w]

@@Jayhawk92 I agree but they went 3rd and 12th and he was saying the whole time everyone made a mistake

[@NeverSeenTheFilm]

There is no drafting "well" or "smart" that's just confirmation bias. There is getting lucky in the draft which is its own reward. Your reward is that you have Luka, or Jokic or Tatum and Brown and nobody else does. If you have a top 5 player in the league or 2 of the top 10 and an ownership group that's willing to pay so you can ignore the salary cap and you still need more help to make it work maybe you aren't as great of a front office as you think you are.

[@razkable]

The denver love is crazy....kcp jeff reggie and bruce gone...they have no bench to speak of

[@Dsi303]

This CBA made more sense in the 2010s or 2000s. There’s way too many good players now that are gonna be jumping around because teams can’t pay them. It’s gonna be like 2k after 3 years where teams can’t pay anyone and you’re gonna have a top 10 player in FA because no one can pay him

[@Trick2092]

lol already crying about the Celtics situation. Just enjoy their title dude. Also terribly underrating the Bucks. Another year with Dame and Giannis will go along way. Health has curved their playoffs twice in a row, if healthy they are a threat and contender.

[@tadah21]

Bill you're being bias Lauri is a good stat bad team guy the record says sp even if they were in play in contention it would make sense. Plus he has NEVER played a full season in career. FOH

[@HamptonGuitars]

It all comes down to individual players making too large a piece of the total pie. A super max player gets 40%, if you get two of them there is no GD way to build a team except with rookies and minimum contracts.

[@stevewellbaum5287]

Indy hate is incredible. Show the pacers some love. They will be back if everyone is healthy. Tyrese is that guy and we have lots of good playoff proven guys. Give them there flowers.

[@Colinkrauss1]

17:21 - 18:05 This is one of the more annoying things about the NBA media/podcast space. Why does this logic never get transplanted to their views on economic policy. Right or wrong, it’s an annoying inconsistency.

[@holstorrsceadus1990]

I really don't wanna hear about the 82 game schedule being too much. The guys in the 60s did it on busses and didn't complain. Nobody in Hockey complains. I used to do 3x as many days lifting Pianos and the like. If a guy can't hack it through a season sucks for him and the team that drafted him but whatever.

[@jasonlighton9636]

There is a bit of a difference between 82 games in 8 cities and 82 games on 30 cities.

[@holstorrsceadus1990]

@@jasonlighton9636 yeah, more travel because your destinations are farther apart. Still gotta go coast to coast with less stops in between.

[@matrixkernel]

Nope, the league doesn’t want to reward you for winning besides giving a trophy. Enjoy your title but accept the inevitable decline immediately after.

[@gabesoto9301]

Indy is better than Cleveland and better than a Bucks team that’s only getting older. If Mathurin, Nembhard or Jarace Walker take a leap this year they could easily be competing at the top of the East

[@Kagemusha08]

Celtics will trade some pieces, especially if they don't win next year, but I agree with the idea of trying to financially encourage teams to keep the players they drafted. The league won't tho, because they know that it will discourage potential new owners from buying in and upset the owners of mediocre franchises. Dudes like Ishiba and Ballmer aren't buying teams so they can choose a great GM and coach who will create the right culture and slowly build up their teams the proper way by drafting smart and Yada yada. They're spending 9 figures to be good ASAP. If competently run franchises get financial breaks for retaining their homegrown superstars, that ain't gonna happen.

[@jordantaylor3570]

Mavs should be 2nd in rankings , they literally just beat thunder and timberwolves like does that not matter, not talking about who’s better in 3 years. Nuggets got worse as well

[@Rodrickwashington-mf5dk]

I agree with the Dallas point . They’re not making it back to the finals . Celtics would smack them even w/Klay

[@pinbarbecue1100]

It's good for the league in my opinions because I am tired to see Superstars teaming up and stacking up every yr. The ppl want parity in the league.

[@kouthao7581]

I agree with you BS, if you signed players you drafted you shouldn't have to a price for it or get punished for drafting well.

[@haydotzero3372]

I mean Suns just did this once. Celtics have been rebuilding teams until they finally drafted Tatum and Brown

[@umacenuff1]

Tier list > draft

[@kevintomey1275]

The only caveat to this was all teams knew that tax was kicking in. It was the celtics job to act responsibly and they sent it. Thats on them. They got a chip which is great but cost of doing business

[@destinywaitMW]

People think that all NBA owners are super rich.Wycs net worth is under 1 billion

[@MrOctober44]

Under 1 billion 😂. If it's such a "struggle", then don't buy a team!

[@destinywaitMW]

@@MrOctober44 He bought his share for 300+ mil 20+ years ago

[@BadP0tat0]

Look at Denver - drafted Jokic, Murray and Michael Porter Junior….now they need to loose KCP

[@dylancox631]

The league gets headlines for players moving, not consistency. Also, I’d agree with Bill more if the rest of the “core” Celtics weren’t free agents. Porzingus, Jrue, White: all free agents.

[@mannydaprofit2869]

He has a point team like the Celtics who drafted well will be penalized for it with the CBA. If you ask me that’s stupid as hell