The Latest Science on Training to Failure | Educational Video | Biolayne

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[@MrPerfume1979]

I have an innate sense of failure as soon as I wake up.

[@MarquitoRH]

Best comment

[@aarony3636]

I am with you on that

[@douglaselmes6777]

You must be humongous

[@RolandoMichael]

best bulking suggestion ever

[@viklondon3466]

Underrated comment ❤😂

[@evan191919]

This is so off topic but man it is fucking weird that I’ve been watching you on youtube since the 2012 era when the fitness scene was dominated by Physiques of Greatness, Tigerfitness, icecreamfitness, twinmuscleworkout, Matt Ogus AKA the half natty king, etc. Can’t believe how many channels have come and gone in the last decade, and you’re still consistent as ever. Amazing.

[@naturelpowerliftingbrucewa7124]

^ Totally this

[@segasys1339]

All of this is just advice. Do whatever the fuck you wanna do.

[@neil12011]

@@segasys1339 This has been etched into my brain since 2014 watching the twins bro!

[@segasys1339]

@@neil12011lol

[@ghostofmoredishesmorebitch1507]

Even dogs wanna be half natty

[@IsaacMorgan98]

I've been in this game for a decade, and the last few years I've totally given up focusing on the science and research. I'm honestly not sure it matters what you do as long as there's intensity, consistency and progressive overload. I dunno if anything matters outside of that.

[@Dusballin]

Dude honestly this seems to be the part of the cycle the industry is heading into. It seemed like early in the 2000’s it was screw form just throw as much weight as you can, then it transitioned into perfect form and everything is science based optimization, and now, at least what I sense and feel, is it’s, just utilize solid form, challenging weight for your desired rep range, utilize exercises you like that feel good, and have fun. I honestly prefer it this way these days. I used to stress myself out with the optimization that it just took the fun out of it. I’m back to just lifting and having fun during the process

[@IsaacMorgan98]

@Dusballin I'm right there with you man, but I find a lot of the info out there is still "here's the new scientifically backed way to be as aesthetic as zyzz or cbum" and its just unpleasant. I just enjoy my hobby in a way that probably won't hurt me and that's really it, that's all I need. So far I've been able to do things few men on the planet have ever been able to do and all I do is screw around but keep to those 3 basic principals haha.

[@JaysonT1]

​@@Dusballin Proper form has been around waaay before the 2000's started and IS the most important

[@Dusballin]

@@JaysonT1 I’m talking about the majority population and media influencers trends. Of course it’s always been a thing, obviously.

[@IsaacMorgan98]

@@greenpig4075 Yup, eat a colourful plate and stop stressing about it. Stress will do you worse than bread ever has.

[@TheCeiteach]

John Meadows basically believed in the same principles year's ago. "You don't need to take every set to failure, but i would recommend taking the last set to failure". Also the need to "take lighter sets to failure but maybe not on heavy weights".

[@Locke19901]

He was right about so many things. RIP John, you were amazing.

[@dannyk4214]

@@Locke19901 was right on about stretching out the muscle for hypertrophy too, and all the recent studies came out right after he passed. RIP

[@agostinoru]

Dorian Yates said the same thing 30 years ago.

[@2jmajjic]

Goat

[@carpenter155]

John Meadows was/is the Yoda of gains

[@lucasvarley9764]

Such an educational video! Great stuff man, thanks for the useful tips. Question... have you ever tried Next Level Diet? I got a muscle-building meal plan from them and I love it.

[@shrimuyopa8117]

I can't keep up with all of these studies and the recommendations from them. I am just going to keep lifting 😄 I figure it is better than nothing.

[@LBJedi]

I love when science seems to indicate my instincts were correct! I like training compounds a bit further from failure, but isolations to absolute failure. It’s just what has felt best for me, and has seemed to generate the best results for my goals.

[@J.B.1982]

That’ll probably keep things a lot safer that way too. I know I prefer that and I’ve seen the best overall results, far as recovery, strength, and feeling good with the movements. Once you start pushing those compounds your form goes and that increases likelihood of injury by a lot. That’s what I’ve noticed being a practitioner that does a lot of ortho work plus having an office in a CrossFit.

[@LBJedi]

@@douganderson7002 oh totally! If there’s evidence that contrary to my assumption, I love being proven wrong too. I want accuracy above all. It’s just cool when I’ve been doing something instinctually that’s shown to give me my best results is then reinforced by science.

[@222-i6o]

i got cfs in 09 big time frm pushing to faliure ....im 38 and still havnt recovered....u need to understand nt evrybdy has a toyota hilux engine ....b careful

[@LBJedi]

@@222-i6o This is really good advice. When I really think about it, I’m not going to absolute failure. I’m more so going to technical failure if that’s the goal on the exercise. Thank you for your reply. You’re do right; while challenging oneself in tge gym is important, it’s so important to be careful.

[@wayfaringfarmer2724]

Mike Mentzer released this info in the late 70s early 80s. Pairing it with longer periods of time between the next workout. I’ve been doing it for months and it’s blown my mind the in strength and muscular gains. I’m 46 years old and my body feels amazing. Wish I would have found Mike Mentzer routine in my 20s. I would have never done so many sets which have negatively affected my shoulders. 1. Warm up your body with stretches and light compound lifts to prepare. 2. Do ONE set per lift like you’re a Viking on a blood thirst raid. 3. Rest for 3 days 4. Do next muscle group.

[@BB-gj8ck]

Great video Layne. In my experience, low volume, at failure always produced most muscle growth for me. Going to failure on compound exercises are also extremely dangerous.

[@salvadorromero9712]

TIL 0 RIR lat pulldown sets could land me in the hospital. Be careful out there bros; you only have one life, treat it as precious

[@gxm164]

Every video talk about how most people don't know what training to failure is, but rarely do we hear about those of us who feel like they're wasting their time if they don't reach failure or close to failure on most of their sets. I have a really hard time pacing myself, when I go to the gym I want to make it count, but this mindset also mean Im often burning myself out. Im stuck in a cycle of peaking, burning out and coming back. Everytime I have trained with cycles with set weights, Ive made significant improvement because the set weights keep me from pushing too hard consistently, think something like 531. Very informative video. Love the content. Thank you!

[@AlexLevineFitness]

Having inflammatory arthritis…not always training to failure has been important for me to stay loose, recover better, and protect the joints

[@_MrTV]

I was looking forward to this video when that study came out and saw all the kind of misinterpretations. Thanks for the great info

[@MrOrthodox13]

So for hypertrophy, we really go with Mike Mentzer's principle, great.

[@chyllerkoala3069]

extremely informative, must watch video

[@travman228]

Great content as usual. Now we need a video on this sucralose genotoxic finding

[@P_Mann]

Aside from that I get good results, this study makes me feel pretty good about my approach to hypertrophy. I figure I stick in the RPE 8-9 range for the vast majority of working sets, both for safety (no spotter/partner) and longevity (injury avoidance). The most detrimental thing I can think of is an injury that keeps me from working out; I’m not competing in anything, so even even less effective lifting from time to time is better than convalescence.

[@Pose005]

@@antiwufei553?

[@RR-et6zp]

Just do Kinobody

[@RR-et6zp]

@@Pose005 Just do Kinobody

[@jjr8220]

You are right that most people don’t train hard enough. I’ve been training to failure on most sets for 40 years with great success for strength and hypertrophy.

[@beardy7124]

Your discussion about going to failure if you haven’t before is why i have recently considered hiring a trainer.

[@МаксимНаумов-ф4й6ф]

Thank you and your team for everything you do.

[@DipankarGhosh007]

The fatigue from high loads failure is also not the same from lower load failure. I agree with staying away from failure in early sets of a compound lift.

[@christinekluge1902]

Absolutely loved this video! Great content! Thank you 😊

[@Angelboy2169]

Thanks for the great info Biolayne. 🔥👍🏻

[@wread1982]

Thanks for this video sir! 🙌

[@kevinemcee1164]

Thank you for continuing to educate, Layne

[@samfogleman271]

Drop sets, pyramid sets, etc are relative to strength BUT it’s the tears and stress on the muscle that actually builds strength. When you build strength you ultimately build muscle size.

[@jonnyb6700]

Would love to see a study addressing Mentzer-style high intensity single sets, where you have a spotter help you go far past failure, wait 10 secs, go again, repeat, repeat, drop weight, repeat, repeat, etc. And not to do the study on untrained people, like most of these studies seem to be. I just switched to this style after years of standard volume training and feel like I'm triggering adaptation like never before. Plus with the emphasis on multiple days recovery between workouts, all the issues with aches and pains and chronic fatigue are gone.

[@martinsmith7111]

Funnily enough I watched that Mentzer video on KZbin yesterday! Would also love to see research on that, thinking of trying it myself. One other thing I've learnt, try different approaches and do what works best for you. Go forth and grow! :)

[@Xplora213]

Any change will be beneficial if it’s appropriate for you. Sometimes you need to change it up!!

[@geopietro]

jonnyb6700, can you provide a link that describes MM's training approach? Thank you.

[@thewaywithjay9167]

I started applying my own version Mentzer's HD program about a year ago, and I still follow his protocol almost to a T as far as cadence, volume, and rest days between sessions. In the first 3 months I went from 180 lb at around 13% bf to 194 lbs around the same bf levels. My strength exploded. Shortly after I realized this was a potent program, I began applying it my clients as well. What I noticed was that my clients who were already trained in the sense of having had a decent amount of prior exposure to higher intensity training responded like crazy in a positive way. But due to my more beginner clients lack of exposure and inabilities to carry the training to the intensities needed, much less results were occurring. My remedy was to add slight more volume to their programs until they reached the ability of being able to take on the effort needed to train so briefly. For myself, I won't look back. HIT at max effort, 15-20 min sessions every 3-4 days (sometimes longer after lower body days) has worked like a charm:). Plus I love having all of the time to apply to other areas of life!

[@perjetskies5122]

Are you referring to Mike mentzer’s rest pause style? (Where it’s a 1 rep max, past failure for 4-5 reps) Id personally be more interested in seeing a study on typical Heavy duty straight sets (To positive and static failure) with an analysis on extra rest as well. This is because there have been essentially no studies done on this specific training style. However, so far, science is beginning to prove mentzer correct about everything so far, so I’d be interested to see the result.

[@neyhmor]

Just a small remark: The change in velocity (i.e. acceleration ) is a consequence of the applied force, not the other way around. The hevur the load, the lower rhe acceleration FOR the same force (in case of maximal effort). If you are increasing the load without changing acceleration, you are just using more force.

[@il2673]

Thanks for the info. I think now I have a better idea of what I need to do. For sure, drop weight, do more reps, stop before I drop the weights

[@tedysmom]

Excellent advice!

[@jayringo77]

Appreciate the clarification and context for this study. Dovetails well with other discussions I've seen defining "what do we mean by failure" and different ways to push additional reps using techniques like mechanical drop sets or supersetting with extended stretching.

[@mattrobinsonstrengthandfit642]

This is why I'm a massive can of pre fatiguing my muscles with an isolation exercise it allows me to complete the rest of my workout doing compound exercises at lighter less fatiguing loads whilst close to/ to failure on some occasions past failure. Training in this way allows me to keep fatigue low but stimulus high

[@Felled-angel]

I'm 5"9 at 77kg I don't take supplements except 400g of chicken a day I literally go until the bar falls on me I started the gym 2 months ago 4 times a week I've gone from 60kg to 85 on a bench press.

[@dougielifts]

Why has it taken people so long to make vids on this study. It came out weeks out and it’s like no one wanted to make a vid on it. I was expecting the following day for all the usual KZbinrs to make vids on it. And they just didn’t. So thank you for the vid

[@supernotnatural]

Joe Manganiello talks about failure in his book Evolution. Says if you dont have a problem walking to your car after the gym. You dont know the failure. Most people don't. Not going to failure makes sense if you are cutting and you need to simulate muscles to keep it and not necessarily to grow.

[@TobyJohnBob]

Layne, you're my hero

[@JayVincentFitness]

Depends on how you’re measuring strength. As Layne said, strength expression is a skill. So if your goal is to move heavy weight for low reps, that’s a specific skill you must use heavy weight to improve. But it’s not an accurate measure of strength. Strength is the amount of force a muscle can produce. Best measured by peak torque. I bet if you compared the groups with peak torque as your measurement of strength, lower and higher reps to failure would be very similar

[@Ruudwardt]

I only train to failure with compounds I have dialed in over the years. That excludes practically all lower body stuff because of low back issues. I am in no hurry to find out my deadlift 10 rep max weight. Weighted pullup is the safest, very hard to injure yourself. Most upper body stuff is relatively quite safe.

[@Yolked_Thoughts]

Solid explanation, help to bridge the gap and some things I’m currently diving into, I appreciate that, thank you!

[@thatonedood7]

Good stuff layne.

[@scottyg5403]

Nice breakdown with some good practical advice! Excellent thanks!

[@Nate_tureboy]

Funny how so many people knock training to failure when they really don't know what it is because they haven't experienced it yet. It truly separates the crowd and you'll gain immense self confidence in yourself when you train, even one workout, to failure! Folks wonder why Mike Mentzer and HIT proponents recommended multiple days between training. Because they were bladting their muscles and nervous system. And it works for many people. Two things no one ever discusses; the infrequency leaves you ample time to live life and the aerobic conditioning from training compound movements to failure is immense

[@gmelliot19]

Two other considerations that favor training to failure: 1) You can use advanced set systems / workout structures that allow you to train to or past failure on mosts sets or even every set with minimal effect on performance in your next set. The best way to do this is with giant sets. Pick 3-5 exercises that use mostly different muscles and perform them consecutively with around 20-40 seconds rest between each exercise. Even though you are resting less between sets this actually lets muscles recover more (each muscle will get 5+ minutes rest before you use it again). Thus you can take your sets closer to failure. This works best with full body splits and upper / lower splits. 2) What is optimal in short term is not the same as what is optimal in the long term. If you train to failure consistently your body will adapt to that training style. For most beginner and intermediate lifters I think the #1 focus should be progressing your work capacity. That often means training closer to failure than is optimal in short term. For example: if you took two lifters and told the first one to never train to failure and the second one to train to failure every set, you would probably see that the second lifter, over time, would have better muscular endurance and recovery. Their muscles will adapt to be able to recover more quickly from intense efforts.

[@Goretofame]

2 years training like this with 3xfullbody long trainings/wk. I really love the quality of the training and how efficient time/work ratio has... 1 circuit/giant set for bottom body, 1 circuit for upper body and other circuit for aesthetic(isolated arms/delts)

[@kodykernan6917]

Well said

[@martinsmith7111]

Reg Park recommended not quite going to failure on his 5x5 in the 1950's/60's, so that still stands. Also Arnold said you should experience going to failure like the time when he was 15 and couldn't ride his bike back from the gym cos he was so knackered. After my 30 years of using weights, seeing trends and advice come and go (and the advent of the internet with too many commentators), my advice is do a mix of compounds and isolations at least 2-3 times a week, go hard almost to failure with good form, stretch, eat and sleep. End of.

[@proddreamatnight]

Hey Layne, I'd love to see a video on the topics of minimum effective volume and maximum recoverable volume

[@G.Bfit.93]

The closer to failure the better. If you are a bodybuilder and want maximum results/mass, training to failure and beyond is going to give you that. I like to focus on DB/Calisthenic/machine exercises for training to and beyond failure. For example, I'll do incline Db Bench Press first for maximum contractions, then after do Wide Incline Barbell Press for more stretch, then DB Flyes for maximum stretch and hold the stretch for 30 seconds at the end. I don't see the best results when I do b*tch sets and leave reps in the tank. Warm-up sets have their place for sure, but the one-two set(s) I do to failure and one set I do beyond failure is what helps me grow.

[@ColinDeWaay]

The last half of this video talking about how people often don't know what failure ACTUALLY feels like is key. If you never actually fail how can you know if you're close to failure?

[@michellehbn3887]

Love your study break downs

[@tonystark_2017]

This new study can increase sales in supplement market

[@josephroa4475]

Excellent video as usual

[@deborahthompson849]

70 yr old natural. I know what I think is failure is not my actual gun to head failure. In effect, I go with what feels like failure which is probably 1 or maybe 2 RIR. It's safer, I'm old but using heavy loads, I grow, & can outdo many of the young guys.

[@CazzoneMagrolino]

How do you train at 70? Don't your bones and tendons break?

[@dag1704]

​@@CazzoneMagrolinoif you are already trained when hitting 70, no. If you start with 70 and put 500 pounds on the benchpress, instantly let it fall on your ripcage after getting help of getting it from the rack, yeah. Then bones will be broken.

[@VorpalSnickerSnack]

Then everybody clapped

[@Jay-kb7if]

I think it's hard for people to reconcile that training heavy and failure can be mutually exclusive. I pull a lot of theories out of my arse but you want to have heavy enough resistance to stimulate all fibures and that's all you need.

[@AndrewBrownK]

thank you for sharing the good info

[@chadsmith4918]

Good info. Appreciate it

[@nickfozouni8126]

Very helpful. Thanks a lot

[@Santacruz_skater]

Great vid 👍

[@HarryZikosNY]

I love this channel!

[@AdamScottfit]

Great breakdown. Too many people extrapolate what feeds their bias - I agree with everything you said, this was my takeaway from the study, also, my 18 years experience. Taking compounds to failure was never a good idea-dropped bars on my chest, dropped squat bars, tweaked my back (deadlifts). The issue I find is, there are too many enhanced people that forget their body responds a bit differently to the nattys. No beef, just facts.

[@Maximum_Natural_Muscle]

Well done guys. So from 2-3 RIR you went to 0-2 RIR... In 2050 you ll finally discover that 1 set to failure is the optimal way for max hypertrophy and Mike Mentzer will be laughing from the sky.

[@Michaah]

Interesting to see that in the end Pavel Tsatsouline was right in regards to Strength.

[@mr-boo]

Really interesting stuff. I'm stoked about seeing this digging specifically into strength, and not just hypertrophy. Much of the research I'm familiar with only does the latter. As someone who is a natural body builder but happens to care fairly little about that, but a lot about strength (or longevity more generally), I'm happy to see the relationship visualized between RIR and strength development. In my case I probably should stop going to failure on everything (really squeezing out cm's/second for those last 1-2 reps), because that's what I thought strength probably needed as much as hypertrophy needs it. Perhaps now my (lagging) strength will start matching my (better developed) physique, which always makes me feel like a pretender :P

[@Sam66519]

RIR 2 means you could do 3 reps with that weight?? that makes no sense i thought RIR meant Reps in Reserve?

[@AwakenProtocol]

Pausing or racking the weights between a certain number of reps helped myself train close to failure but not to failure. This allowed myself to go heavier without the need for a spot. It takes some training beforehand to get the muscles and joints to this level. I wouldn’t start out training like that because it requires a certain level of fitness and strength to do it safely. On major strength exercises I wouldn’t bother adding weight smaller than 25 Lbs. For example 135,185, 225, 275, 315. I also like to train without stopping. Starting out with a weight I can only take the time to add more weight and move straight into the next exercise all the way to three sets.

[@sparky573]

Just a minor nitpick, rpe and rir are only inverses of each other at a specific rep range. 1 rep with RIR 2 is much easier than 28 reps with 2 RIR. The first one might be a RPE of 6, the last one a 9.5.

[@AndJusTIceForRob]

1:58 RPE and RIR are not linear transformations of one another. This has been covered extensively. Otherwise, great info!

[@troywise3130]

squats to failure is its own special kind of hell

[@ddavidjeremy]

Good stuff Layne. A consistent caveat for proximity to failure training is SFR. Easy to define, but not the easiest concept to apply to your own training without experience. I compare it to going out drinking with friends. You wanna drink enough to have fun, get a buzz, and last the entire evening to maximize your experience, but if you cross the hangover threshold you better have your ducks in a row for tomorrow. Maybe a deload or active rest. Thats why I prefer an accumulation paradigm over the course of a mesocycle. I save the hardest "partying" for that last microcyle before a deload. Cool video man. 😊😊

[@atrevolutionwiththomaspain68]

That's a really good analogy, thank you

[@vedranvedran141]

Mike Israetel school. The best school today.

[@ddavidjeremy]

@@vedranvedran141 haha you're right. Lol. It even sounds like one of his analogies. Team Full Rom Inda house.

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Or just take 3g of tumeric and go ham. tbh it works for drinking and lifting

[@StephColbertsonStrength]

First time I ran a powerlifting program I was as surprised by how low the RPE was on most sets.

[@flexlikeag]

August 2021 took bench to complete failure rep 8 ruptured pec major. Now I'm back to the strength I was pre rupture. I still approach failure, usually staying 1 rep shy of failure. I'm trying to come back stronger than before. Thanks for the input, layne. Great job at nationals. Keep training hard.

[@AdamScottfit]

Thanks for sharing that. I think it's important for people that are newer to hear stories like this! Glad you're back.

[@Sparksnorthern]

In a single set? Those are relatively high reps so I'd be surprised to hear that if so.

[@therebeccaspears7731]

Thanks!

[@espenstoro]

After 3 microdiscectomies, I'm gonna pass on the squatting, barbell rowing and deadlifting to absolute failure. I'll be fine without knowing. That said, the last rep or two barely get up at all when I do an amrap set at the end. 3-5 second reps should be close enough without getting hurt.

[@johntravis7304]

The morning after I pushed bicep curls to the limit 5 sets in a row, they were visibly engorged out of nowhere, and was lifting stronger the next workout. Sore AF. Personally like Layne said would not do heavy compound lifts to true failure. I don't want to get hurt/die/play with fire. Here to lose weight/get ripped not end up on disabled.

[@FatFreeRevolution]

Great vid thanks

[@tykjpelk]

I've been going to failure a lot lately. Trying out a super low volume low frequency high intensity program inspired by Mike Mentzer. Three sets to muscular failure with 30 second breaks, twice a week. Don't know if it optimizes muscle growth but it does optimize consistency which I'm otherwise not great at, especially since I do calisthenics and just have to grab the pull-up bar whenever I walk by the park gym.

[@jonathantolley9632]

Gotta love those Rest Pause sets.

[@R055LE.1]

I still can't train to my limits quite yet, but I remember doing back squats and going down, but not being able to come back up. Had to dump the bar to the guards and wiggle out.

[@EduardoFilipeCoaching]

Great video 👍

[@justinmaxwell8193]

If you look at Dorian Yates regimen, first 2 sets warmup last set to failure on every workout. Seems he knew what he was doing over the decades

[@ozzy6162]

Approaching true failure affects form which can easily lead to injury. Consistency, even with sub-optimal hypertrophy, is probably better in the long run.

[@jicalzad]

As I hit my 40s now, this is my new approach

[@donaldkasper8346]

Yes, I have mapped out my reps to weight, graphed it, expecting at high weight a exponential drop off in reps, a sudden performance collapse. What I found was instead an exact linear relation down to 1 rep. The relation is 2 reps lost per additional 10 pounds weight. I mapped this from my max reps which is 10. So from my highest 10 rep weight, I can add 50 pounds.

[@alancorn8308]

No reason not to go to failure on safe isolation movements though imo, cable arm work in the 10-15 rep range for example. If you can push beyond with partials etc even better. Not going to failure on compounds is a good idea but shouldn't be used as a cope for being a wimp on isolations.

[@arvopenaali896]

For a long time I did every isolation set to failure, not only did rest times get long but my resting heart rate would shoot up in a week or two and would only come down with about 3 rest days. I'm guessing CNS fatigue or something. On the other hand trying volume based progression took a ton of time and felt less effective. So there's a lot of individual learning. Stopped pushing compounds too close to failure after injuries but also trying to learn to progress on isolation movements without pushing every set to failure. Maybe as a bigger guy I should have more rest days plain and simple but it's hard to trust you are progressing by only going to the gym 2-3 times a week.

[@lubyslaimonas]

I am going to gym 2 times a week for more than a year and I have same or better gains than I had more time a lot of years before and training 4 times a week but not consistent. Benefit is with 2 times a week I always train 2 times a week, it's easy, with 4 times a week time to time I didn't had energy or time to go 4 times a week consistently. For average people who has a family, job or are quite busy 2 times a week is enough. I am doing full body workuot every time.

[@janipalmen2059]

how long do you train at a time?

[@lubyslaimonas]

@@janipalmen2059 1h - 1h 30min 7-8 exercises and 2-4 sets per exercise. But I mean near failure sets, before every exercise I do 2 warm up sets

[@wintertime331]

@@lubyslaimonas perfect! Me too ! In and out in half an hour 👍

[@AndersBaumann]

Regarding hypertrophy: Any reason to do more than one set, if you train to failure?

[@muzammal-h]

Yes, important question you ask, as training to failure i.e. high intensity, reduces the need (or possibility!) for training high volume. So the failue set is always the 'last' set as it is the 'only' set (excluding warm up sets).

[@pretty_flaco]

here we go again… another win for the HIT bros

[@krakoa942]

Great stuff! Hopefully we'll see more research to help explain the apparent disconnect between this meta-analysis and studies that seem to suggest 2-3 RIR is as good or better than failure. I'd love to know how going "past failure" with rest-pauses compares too, since I sometimes ending up doing that just out of pig-headeness when I want to hit my target number 🙃

[@Edwinvet420]

Good Q.

[@rob_was_here]

I’m curious how rest-pause reps stack up against forced/assisted reps and strictly doing negatives with assistance to the fully contracted position.

[@tabza]

My guess "2-3 RIR is as good or better than failure" holds true when you train purposefully for a very long time (years) and manage to keep your systemic fatigue and injury risk in control better, therefore making better gains over the long term.

[@rob_was_here]

@@tabza I believe you are right, I was just curious as with everything in life. Risk vs reward balance. I’m not one to train past failure unless a program calls for it. I have been on some bodybuilding programs by John meadows that want you to push to an rpe 11 by implementing iso holds and/or doing partials. The reps in reserve definitely help get more volume over more sets and help prevent injuries.

[@philipm]

I learned a lot from this. Thank you Layne.

[@serban2139]

Hearing you describe ACTUAL FAILURE, I don't think I've ever stressed myself that much. I think I do, but based on your description I am very far from that...that being said, I've never had an issue building muscle if that's my goal...so I don't know..I like to always stop to what I call or heard others as well call to be TECHNICAL FAILURE where I may still breathe just fine and not lose stability, but my form starts to break significantly if I do another rep so I just stop.

[@KetPan]

I think unless and until one has trained very hard for several years and have truly started plateauing in their progress, one can still keep on getting some results if they try 'hard enough' in a sustained manner with requisite nutrition and sleep. Expectations of amateurs vs professionals are going to be different.

[@Esco-lq4rb]

I can relate. Sometimes I feel like I'm close to failure and then I watch videos of fitness pros describing failure and I'm like I've never experienced that and I don't think I want to experience that either, since I'm seeing progress. I think if my goals were to be competitive bodybuilding or to maximize my genetic potential, I'll probably care more and try going to absolute failure.

[@joerockhead7246]

thank you.

[@martystrasinger3801]

My biggest concern (being 65 yo) is the breakdown of form due to fatigue as you approach failure, with a much greater risk of injury as a result.

[@jmodified]

I've been lifting for 40 years and have taken 6 to 8 months off (almost off) many times. The fastest gains I've ever made after a layoff was doing one set to or slightly beyond failure for each muscle group every day - no days skipped for two months, and very eccentric-focused, like three second negatives or three second hold-plus-negative on short-ROM exercises. I would do one pressing and one straight-arm exercise for chest and shoulders alternately to even out the extra triceps work. And of course the first ten days or so were a ramp-up starting well short of failure and skipping anything that was too sore. After the ramp-up I was basically never sore. Of course that doesn't give you a lot of work capacity if you care about that, but the size and strength came back like magic.

[@dennisrobinson8008]

You get better in the groove doing it over and over in the short time frame.

[@Cenot4ph]

it's muscle memory at that point when you take so much time off you're losing mass quite a bit.

[@jmodified]

@@Cenot4ph Yes, the point is I've done it lots of times in my life using different methods, and that worked the best.

[@LostSoulAscension]

My question is what does failure look like in order to understand what close to failure means? How soon or when does not being able to do another rep or set occur? Can it occur despite being able to do another rep say after a 10 minute rest? Is any rest more than 5 minutes the barometer for failure? If you can't do another rep in your normal rep, weight, rest range, then that's failure or is adding some extra rest being able to generate a whole other set not considered failure? What is failure?

[@_MrTV]

See my biggest issue with the RIR or RPE is not knowing where your failure is and a lot of people. Miss calculating what that is

[@Nba_internet_gm]

Hey layne, anyway you could do a video on the relationship between force and velocity. I’m a little confused on the topic of lower velocity means lower force. Maybe I’m even wrong saying that😂 but, I would love to see a video on that.

[@frodothehobo9938]

i think in a practical sense you need to train to failure some of the time, the reason i say this is that the human body is very good at two opposite things, 1; it is good at preserving itself, and 2; it is good at pushing far beyond where you think the limit is. if you never go to failure, you will probably not have a solid perception of how close to failure you actually are

[@Sparksnorthern]

I agree and think this is the most important rationale for training to failure. If you do say five sets and plan to only take the final set to failure, i would think you're more likely to be acutely fatigued and that drawback is more costly than going to failure on a first set, then just autoregulating any additional sets you choose to incorporate into your training session

[@frodothehobo9938]

@@Sparksnorthern i personally train to failure once every 3 weeks.i won't bore you with my whole program but its a 9 week cycle with 3, 3 week waves. With the 3rd week being a planned pr on a variation of a big lift. The pr set is usually at failure or very close but on this 3rd week i also push my assistance exercises to failure knowing that in the following 2 weeks i will be farther away from failure

[@mr.stayindoors6974]

I'v been training to failure for the last couple months, I'v seen results but man i feel so exhausted all the time

[@coldassassin6615]

So take home message for strength growth specifically is go as heavy as possible for the skill, but don't worry about RPE itself, just the weight? Then if doing higher volume lighter load work, add more sets rather than reps, and keep RPE lower?

[@Booklamp53]

Great video! I have learned a lot from your videos. I was wondering if you could do a video on this interesting study: "High-Protein Plant-Based Diet Versus a Protein-Matched Omnivorous Diet to Support Resistance Training Adaptations: A Comparison Between Habitual Vegans and Omnivores." They found simular results between the two groups over 12 weeks. Maybe the difference would be larger if they had followed them longer?

[@kyleblackburn9058]

That last referenced study was a bit misunderstanding. That study got people to use a weight that they would normally use for 10 reps and got them to go to 15-16 reps. There was no RIR estimation by the participant, just a RIR calculation of average training. The study that asked participants what their RIR was then had them go to failure was 1-2 reps over estimated RIR. So people don’t suck at estimating RIR, they just suck at choosing a low RIR

[@MrDrys]

Yes!

[@MarioGarcia-de2fj]

What i do is do 1 set to failure because i can't get my mind to focus beyond 2 sets. So what i do is, for example, i ll go to failure on the military press. Wait 20 seconds and do a second set to see if i can get any reps in. If i get 5 or more, it means i did not go to failure, but if i can get 0-1. Then i know i went to failure.

[@Jammaster1972]

Oddly, this is how I've been training for several years (except I would intentionally go beyond failure on the my last compound exercise set, e.g. bench press--forced reps x2 with spotter). Based on this information I would have ignored the forced reps, but for the most part I only try to fail on the last set with compound lifts. With accessory lifts, I'll fail only the the last one or two sets (typically at a much higher rep range) to ensure full exhaustion of my type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers.

[@AdamScottfit]

If there ever was an intuitive way to train, it's that.

[@jeffreywingham5302]

HIT has done more for me than any other training styles.

[@Wetterwet]

How do you split up your frequency and volume ?

[@Kyzr]

same, although not Menzter style, training 1 rir to failure seems to provide great growth as I was a voluumer doing a bunch of low quality sets for half a year.

[@GG-wg1yh]

In the end it's all about your ability to recovery from a given exercise. If you can recover from 1-2 sets of failure and by the next time you train you have gone up in reps/weight then you're recovered and that failure is stimulating enough. So why increase is ? Your body isn't quite like mathematical equation you are capable of tracking. It needs absolutely precise and you'll never know. So do the minimum required to stimulate growth and recover.

[@qasimahmed3301]

Some critique I have heard (Brosep in Germany) is the part where they were guessing some of the data. Imagine they didn't guess it, then the Data/Curves would suggest that training to failure is better than training close to failure and suddenly the Bro Split would become way more interesting.