Bipolarcast Episode 1: Interview with Matt Baszucki on Ketogenic Diet and Bipolar Disorder

[@ChrisPalmerMD]

Wow! Thank you Matt and Iain for courageously sharing your stories. I hope this not only helps to reduce the stigma of mental illness, but also offers hope to the countless people who are desperate for better answers than psychiatry currently offers.

[@mrfake675]

Thanks for looking into this. Bipolar sucks

[@MichaelBLive]

Thank you Dr Palmer for your work getting the word out. I was just interviewed on the podcast 5 months in to recovering. I have you, Matt, Iain and everyone else to thank for helping us all so much. Life changing. Thank you so much. Michael

[@NeseretBemient]

Dr. Palmer, I am reading your book, Brain Energy for the first time, and I just want to thank you for writing it. I appreciate this book so much partly because it is a soothing balm to the soul of a psychiatric RN, who has felt like a lone Wolf for 17 years in service in this fascinating industry. You can imagine how incredibly validating and empowering it is to read your book on a personal and professional level. I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. You grieved her before she passed and still grieve her to this day, for the immense suffering you both endured navigating the mental health system. I admire your courage, strength, wisdom, love, and compassion. I admire your resilience, and deep love of humanity. You are willing as a servant leader to give back to the same industry that leaves millions marginalized, disenfranchised, and disillusioned. Your life is a witness to the power of radical forgiveness, integrity, and love in action. Thank you for who you are and what you do each day. I'm sure your mom is smiling down on you! I'm so grateful I came across your work. I will be doing a review of Brain Energy on my KZbin channel when I finish reading it. I believe every mental health professional needs to hear your story and read your book. Warm Regards, Neseret

[@1shebani]

Matt and Iain, thank you for sharing in such wonderful detail your stories to others. You both are so brave and open. At Stanford, our trial is already full! Keep up the great work.

[@talgerzon8536]

Thank you both for sharing so openly. I am so glad you are both well and thriving. I have a family member living with bipolar and your insights are fascinating. Matt, you speak a lot about discipline, which really struck a chord with me. I believe discipline more than anything else is the biggest challenge for my family member. Can you both please share more about how you find self-discipline, especially when you are not feeling well?

[@NeseretBemient]

Matt, I find your statement, "I had this big idea for a long time that taking psychiatric medications was going to impede my spiritual growth." You intuitively felt that way, even in the midst of a 4th psychotic episode. You were so convinced of this, that you were willing to ran away and be homeless rather than take those medications. In my 17 years as a psychiatric RN, I have witnessed this time and time again. I have seen so many patients in exactly what you're describing. They absolutely refuse to take medications and their reasoning is not always as sophisticated as yours, but they just knew they didn't want to be on them. Many people did not tolerate the medications. One of my main role as a psychiatric nurse was to administer and monitor the FULL effects of these medications. No. There's no such thing as "side effects", it is the full effect of the medications you're experiencing. I've been involved in hundreds of "code white" cases, where our team had to force someone to take their medications (an awful experience), through the involuntary treatment act. Now, don't get me wrong, I believe these medications can be life saving in acute crisis, but long term I have come to believe they do indeed impede a person's personal and spiritual development/growth. You described that feeling of not being "awake and aware" on psychiatric medications. I've heard that from so many of my clients and I've experienced it myself. I describe it as a sort of "chemical lobotomy." Yes, it's harsh but true. So, then, the question remains, does taking psychiatric medications impede your spiritual growth? I'm convinced it definitely does. Here is an interesting example from my own life. I started my KZbin channel on Feb. 3, 2011. Just the year before I was started on two medications that I had high toxicity to - one was medication for hypothyroid and the other was an antidepressant. For a period of 12+ years I was heavily medicated on multiple psychiatric medications including Lithium for a diagnosis of "antidepressant induced bipolar disorder." My goal when I started my KZbin channel was to educate and raise awareness about mental health and mitigate stigma. Well, I felt so terrible on those medications, I barely survived. I had brain fog, weight gain, anxiety, suicidal depression, hypomania, mania, psychotic break, and intensifying/disturbing suicidal ideations. I was ridden with guilt, shame, and isolated myself. I could barely keep up being a partner, mother, nurse - never mind KZbin. I felt like I failed miserably in every area of my life. Today, after implementing a holistic approach in the past 7 years, and ketogenic diet being the most powerful step in the last 5 months - I am in a completely different place. I have the energy to do KZbin videos, I have the energy to connect with my daughter and partner - to be present, I am doing a much better job of being a mental health advocate. Finally, I feel "AWAKE and AWARE." I feel ALIVE again. I am learning and growing everyday. And I get to meet someone like you and Dr. Iain Campbell, and learn from you two!!!! Thank you for everything that you do. Remember, even fools have wisdom. I wouldn't wish a single psychotic break/episode on anyone, but even in the midst of your deep suffering you knew intuitively that psychiatric medications were not the end of be all of mental health and wellness. Just look at how far you've come!!! What a miracle! I'm also so incredibly grateful you, your persistent parents, and Iain for sharing your experiences of bipolar disorder so openly. It has given me the courage to speak up and share my own story. Thank you all for your courage, strength, grace, wisdom, and compassion. I look forward to connecting soon. Warm Regards, Neseret

[@dyaneharwood2023]

“Discipline is everything…’ I have to say that’s the strongest takeaway from this episode. It’s awesome to listen to this discussion. As someone who also has bipolar one disorder, but triggered postpartum, I was so glad to find this podcast. I’m listening to every single episode starting with this one! Thank you so much for making it possible.

[@KThomson-lx8qy]

Thank you both for sharing your story. The lifestyle changes are so interesting - Diet, Sleep, and Exercise. Adherence is hard. I love the fact that your goal is to keep your life stable and help others. I'm a Mum who is obsessed with research on the ketogenic diet attempting to help my 19-year-old son. He has definitely had some scary adventures! We are just beginning the keto journey and I am hoping this will be a helpful treatment. Hope that he too can enjoy "normal simple". Love this channel. So helpful for someone like me.

[@autumnleaves2766]

Excellent, well done to both of you young men for raising awareness of this issue. You need a bigger audience ! I'm a woman in my 50s, mental health problems from age 19 onwards, with some long periods of remission as it were. Diagnosed with bipolar type 2 in my 40s. Prior to that I was either untreated or treated for unipolar depression. Have had several episodes of psychosis over the years, worst one led to a complete loss of perception of reality and hospitalisation four years ago. Some medication does work well on psychosis. I have also had hypomania and depression even when on medication, as well as off it. Unmedicated for over two years now and also recently changed my diet to higher protein, healthy animal fats eg cheese, plenty of fruit, low carbs and no refined sugar or processed foods. My mood is more stable if I avoid stress. I sleep better on this diet, which is not exactly ketogenic but close to it and I only eat one meal a day (OMAD) and use intermittent fasting. Take Vitamin D and multivitamins. Never taken recreational drugs and don't drink. Activities which boost mood include playing the piano, reading, walking, time spent in nature, listening to good music. Creative periods in my life have always happened when I was either hypomanic or manic. Some of the greatest creatives in our history had major mood swings, highs and lows and would have been diagnosed with bipolar if alive today. Examples: composers Beethoven (1770-1827), Schubert (1797-1828), Schumann (1810-1856), artist Van Gogh (took his own life in his 30s). Look what these geniuses left behind for humanity ! However, for us lesser mortals, it is better to try to stabilise the mood, even if some of the creative drive goes. Twice I tried to write novels, both times when very high in mood. Now more stable, I play piano and have done some art too over the past ten years, therapeutic certainly even if of no great artistic merit. Sold just three items of my art on Society6.com, but it was fun to try. Wishing you both well.

[@NeseretBemient]

What a harrowing journey! I don't feel like you're any less a genius or more mortal than anyone else. You have taken many steps to take charge of your mental health. You've been incredibly resilient through so many trials. I admire your courage and willingness to fight through such struggle and still maintain hope. Thank you for sharing your story here. And you are right, some medications are effective and others not so much. The wrong diagnosis and medications can wreck a havoc in someone's life - change their behavior, compromise their financial security, ruin their relationships, and mental health. Many people also live with the fact that psychiatric medications cause a great deal of harmful effects - weight gain, low energy, brain fog, decreased creativity, decreased libido, a sense of being a lesser version of yourself. People have to choose between their physical illness and their mental well being. That's not a choice. It's a very tough position to be in, and you have found a way to help yourself. Like you, in the past 7 years I have explored holistic healing in mental health. I was a psychiatric RN for 17 years and witnessed untold amounts of human suffering. I was diagnosed with antidepressant induced bipolar disorder and experienced hypomania, suicidal depression, and a psychotic break, all while on medications. Through the ketogenic diet and other powerful lifestyle interventions, I'm in a much better place today. I am glad you are too. I agree with you that this information needs to be shared with so many that continue to suffer. They need to know they're not alone and that there is hope. You're doing your part to help yourself and to come here and share. Thank you for taking the time. I appreciate you. Regards, Neseret

[@CecileSeth]

Excellent job gentleman! You are starting to get some buzz. A keto coach mentioned how worthwhile she had found these and recommended your podcast as a must listen!

[@lsat9602]

Matt, you are a wonderful human being. Your insight and discipline are incredible, especially for one so young. Thank you for sharing your inspirational story 🙏 keep up your awesome work guys, we are behind you!

[@ketobipolar]

Thank you!

[@NeseretBemient]

I always ask: "How old is your soul?"

[@ChristineTrimpe]

Matt, your mom sent me this way from Twitter. Thank you both for sharing your journey! I trust my son’s experience will inspire others in the future, too. Very important conversations to have.

[@ChristineTrimpe]

Btw, I lost 100lbs with Keto and I’m the cook in the house. He has started and stopped keto too many times to count-but I’ll never give up. I just know this will help.

[@nicolelaurentLMHC]

I am so excited for these podcasts. I put a link to your channel on my blog. Such a great idea for a KZbin channel!

[@nikiherold7024]

Great information. Thank you for sharing your experience with all of us.

[@MichaelBLive]

Guys. Merry Christmas. I’m literally crying with joy hearing about the foundation and Dr Scher joining. It’s reality happening. People are going to get real help. Thank you. I’m 2 weeks in to keto and I’m already dramatically improving. It’s the 1st time I feel hopeful for myself and others in a very long struggle that nearly disabled me this year. Thanks for sharing and acting. There are so many struggling and this needs to be studied and you are all making it happen.

[@ketobipolar]

Thank you Michael! Is this your first time trying Keto? What has your experience been like? Please be sure to have the support of a psychiatrist and dietician, we can help to connect you if needed.

[@MichaelBLive]

@@ketobipolar yes work with your Dr! I found one doctor willing to support me here in Massachusetts. Going really well. My anxiety is reduced to wondering if feeling so much better is going to last! I will take it. I filled out disability paperwork but gave the diet a try first. Glad I did.

[@ketobipolar]

Drop me an email at [e-mail]! Would be great to speak with you and see if we can help or support - Iain

[@lyndaborden1101]

This was very encouraging

[@MichaelBLive]

@@lyndaborden1101 thank you for commenting. The latest episode is my story 5 months in. It feels like yesterday I was only 2 weeks in. Doing great!

[@photent]

Stubbled across your podcast and very grateful you both created this podcast to talk about your experiences. I am stable but not thriving, hoping keto might help me. I still feel under a fog of low mood and bouts of exaggerated irritation at people and situations. I was diagnosed with schitzoaffective at 24 in 2016 after a major episode of psychosis. So grateful to have never experienced that again, but also still have lingering low mood and low mental energy and concentration that affects both my work and my capacity to have lasting relationships and friendships. Look forward to watching more of your videos :)

[@marthakirby7277]

Thank you so much for sharing your stories and for inspiring all of us who are dealing with mental illness. Just can't believe how excited and hopeful this makes me!

[@Al1ceWonderland]

Thank you ❤

[@melw2389]

Thank you.

[@krunyanmd]

I'm glad you guys are sharing this information with others. I did want to mention that when persons without diabetes follow a well-formulated ketogenic diet, ketoacidosis is very unlikely to occur. Beta-hydroxybutyrate levels of 5.6 mM from either or both a ketogenic diet or fasting is normal and does not necessarily represent ketoacidosis. Beta-hydroxybutyrate levels of 20-30 mM are typical in those with ketoacidosis which is normally not achievable in those without diabetes from a ketogenic diet or fasting. Therefore, in those without diabetes there is no need to consume apple juice or other carbohydrates to lower a beta-hydroxybutyrate level of 5.6 mM unless one has symptoms and a low blood glucose. Then consuming carbohydrates would be appropriate. Here is a link to a publication that reports measurements of beta-hydroxybutyrate levels in persons fasting up to 40 days where they achieved beta-hydroxybutyrate levels of about 6 mM on average. iubmb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bmb.2005.49403304246

[@ketobipolar]

Thank you for this info Dr Runyan!

[@Thebusysuperhuman]

Great interview Iain

[@ketobipolar]

Thanks Sara! Looking forward to uploading our conversation shortly. Hope you're well :)

[@Thebusysuperhuman]

@@ketobipolar yes Im fine - I have been in a quantum biology rabbit hole for 5 months but it was worth it

[@kitkeyser]

Great interview! I wish something like this was around when I started my keto journey. Just came here to say that this protocol can be life changing! The ketogenic diet enabled me to very slowly taper off my medications 3 years ago.

[@ketobipolar]

Great to hear Keto has helped you also and over a long time period! How is life different for you being on Keto vs how it was before? Would love to hear about your experience.

[@kitkeyser]

@@ketobipolar There's a lot to go into that answer. I'm currently writing a book and research paper to share my experiences... I can say that overall I feel/look better than I did 5 years ago before I started keto. I'm also way more productive and my motivation is so much higher. I was stable for quite some time before I started keto but I'd say my baseline level of happiness is higher now than before I started the diet. Even being on medication and keto was better than medication and a 'normal' diet

[@Fröhlich1985]

Hey. Thank you. Kind Regards from Germany. ❤

[@PJPTP]

Fantastic information and hopeful for the near future. Matt, have you worked off your meds completely? I’m stable and fine but do not want to be taking these meds! I want the extra 80 pounds gone also for my future health

[@jan_ellison_baszucki]

Matt was on five meds when he started. Now he is on 4 and down to half the dose of 2 of them. He is currently slowly tapering off lithium - 50% there.

[@jan_ellison_baszucki]

An update: Matt is down from 1500mg to 450 lithium. We'll throw a little party here when he gets fully off!

[@CarniBarbie]

Can you have bipolar that is 99% depression? I have suffered my entire life with depression like you’ve described, but very little elevated mood. The depression is debilitating and it has ruined my life. Maybe it is more BPD. 😩Whatever it is, high fat carnivore diet is helping. I sooooo related to the barb-e-que example!!

[@candlebuddha]

Thanks a ton for sharing your stories and making these videos! You both are an inspiration. 🙂 Are you using any devices (breathe or blood meters) to measure your ketone levels and if yes, which ones?

[@ketobipolar]

Thank you for listening! I use a KetoMojo device to measure blood glucose and ketones - Iain

[@backyardpsychology]

How could diet not be instrumental in exacerbating or even causing mental illness? The modern diet gets more processed and sugar-filled by the day while mental illness rates are nearing epidemic proportions. It's really discouraging to me when people do not believe that dietary changes can alleviate mental illness symptoms, because it's so intuitive. Thanks for trying to normalize the sentiment guys! I think this is just the beginning for keto and bipolar.

[@steelyburt]

The way I describe my depression is like my brain/thoughts/literal vision feel almost suspended with a distorted/dissociated sense of depth perception. Like having bright lights shining directly into your eyes while out in pitch darkness/deer in headlights type feeling. Sometimes accompanied by varied degrees of a pressure behind the eyes, like I’m crying but no tears. I call it dry-cry. And of course low to no motivation and feeling like nothing is worth doing. Simple tasks seem overwhelming. Etc 😵

[@Juliabaker1]

That’s how my son describes his state of mind. His brain feels like cement and there is pressure behind his forehead. He doesn’t feel anything and can’t think clearly. He thinks he’s demented at 19 and he is convinced that the meds did this to him. Thank you for sharing.

[@steelyburt]

@@Juliabaker1 he would do well to believe that effect is not permanent

[@ferasusif]

Hey guys. Thank you for the work you do. Please please please help. I've been doing the keto diet for 6 weeks now and have yet to see the benefits. My depression got a bit worst since starting it but I'm willing to suck it up if it will end up helping my energy and mood. Please help me...is it normal to take this long?? Should I give it to 12 weeks? Am I still adapting? My sleep is better, but my energy., mood, and mental fog are bad. Please reply. Thank you

[@ketobipolar]

Hi, thanks for your message, are you receiving support from your psychiatrist? This is essential and the first priority. Please be sure they are working closely with you.

[@ferasusif]

Thank you for the reply. @@ketobipolar The reason I commented is Because my psychiatrist failed me.I decided to do this on my own (with family support) but have long given up on established medicine. I dont have suicidal ideation so Im thankful for that. But I just cant seem to see those benefits that many seem to experience.

[@nicolatutera8713]

I’m trying to find in your videos if you have reached the point of tapering off all your medications? What struggles have you encountered when attempting to get off the lowest dose even on the ketogenic diet? I’m about to try to do this but the withdrawal is such a beast to get thru.

[@russianmom8311]

I have a theory also about mental illness and sugar. I think it’s possible that for some people, not everyone with mental illness but some, the problem is in the liver not being efficient at processing fructose! Table sugar is sucrose which is a two part molecule: half glucose which your body can make and all cells in the body can use for energy, and fructose which your body considers poison and is processed exclusively in the liver. So fructose circulates in the body longer and damages the brain. And then people have different brain malfunction symptoms like bipolar, or extreme anxiety etc. but I don’t know how you would test that

[@Jo-lp1px]

What did you say at 35:32? Liquition? C8? What is that? Are you careful to not eat meat cooked in omega 6 oils like vegetable oil?

[@AZ-kr6ff]

Bipolar one and homeless here: homeless keto... talk about a challenge, haha.

[@KThomson-lx8qy]

Yes, but you have the knowledge to help yourself. I do feel for you. Take this challenge on.

[@ketobipolar]

Sorry to hear this. Where are you based?

[@bipolarmorocco]

Have you tried Wim Hof cold therapy for Bipolar ? I'm trying different tools as well to reverse bipolar, like keto, fasting, sunlight exposure, exercise etc. I find it difficult to imagine that I can reduce or stop my medication, especially that I found stability.

[@ketobipolar]

Hello, yes I have tried Wim Hof method. Cold exposure certainly can affect metabolism and may also have immune system effects. It didn't improve my bipolar symptoms in the long term but I did feel mentally calmer and more clear headed in the short-term. I generally feel great after cold-water swimming. - Dr. Campbell

[@Thebusysuperhuman]

yes it helps but its better to do the cold exposure in the am for better circadian rhythm match . I found doing the best I could to have a stong circadian rhythm helped me a lot. I dont use medication

[@jan_ellison_baszucki]

@@Thebusysuperhuman Matt also uses cold therapy in the morning along with ketogenic diet, meditation, daily exercise.

[@Thebusysuperhuman]

@@jan_ellison_baszucki yes I do too as it’s great for the parasympathetic nervous system so helpful for anybody with mental health issues - really glad Matt is doing so well

[@sengulkumeagac9681]

​@@jan_ellison_baszucki diyet haricinde takviye gıda alıyor mu? Başka neler yapıyor. Yardımcı olursanız sevinirim 🙏🏿 bende bipolar bozukluğa 2 yim çok zor 😓

[@casebreatelie9887]

Psychosis… Hello there, my husband is bipolar type I and it’s having the 5th psychotic crises, full mania, and for the first time, volunteered himself to go to the hospital for some days. Has been now a week, and besides that the hospital gives to him security and medication, here in Brazil the other therapies are inexistent. How can I l, as wife and partner, during the visits, can talk and maybe bring him to the health side understanding that he is in mania? He is still very grandious and with some paranoias, so I’d love to start bringing him back to real/clarity. Hope I was clear with the doubts! Thanks for reading until here

[@Gondimgondim831]

Olá, tenho um filho com esse problema e sou brasileira. Procure dr. Regis Chachamovich ele é psiquiatra e atende online no Brasil. Ele foi treinado por Dr. Ede e também é expert em psiquiatria metabólica. Sua mensagem tem tempo espero que seu esposo esteja melhor.

[@timedowntube]

Is there an Autralian study or professionals you know of here using this approach? Its in my family.. Thanks guys

[@ketobipolar]

Yes! Prof. Zoltan Sarnyai and Dr. Carlo Longitano at James Cook University are doing a trial. I would be happy to introduce if you want to email me: [e-mail]

[@emmanueladame8934]

If it doesn't work, which I doubt. Look into the Fecal Microbiota Transplant in Australia. Do your research first! The first case of remission for Bipolar using FMT was in Australia. ❤ You'll have good resources to depend on. Find a doctor that is willing to listen. I'll be keeping you in my prayers.

[@stefanosazzini3852]

Could you tell us about the medications you are on and how do you manage to taper them

[@jan_ellison_baszucki]

I can jump in here as I have been helping Matt with this. Matt has been on meds for 6 years. When he started keto 15 months ago, he was on Zyprexa 5-25mg, Carbamazapine 1400mg, lithium 1500mg, tapering valium 20mg, Isradipine 15mg. Interestingly, on keto, his blood levels of lithium and carbamazapine have dropped by 30% but he has remained mostly symptom free. One of the key things we did was to have very small doses of valium and now zyprexa made at a custom compound pharmacy. He dropped valium by .1mg per day. He mostly stopped having withdrawal symptoms when we combined this strategy with keto (which increases gaba in the brain.) He is off valium. Today he is at .4mg Zyprexa in the morning, tapering to 0 within 2 weeks. (down by .1mg every 3 days) and 2.5mg at night. He will begin tapering the night dose of Zyprexa next, then the other meds. He has found that during peak mania season (March/April) and while tapering, exogenous ketones twice a day (Ketostart by Audacious Nutrition) keeps any anti-psychotic withdrawal symptoms at bay. He has had no significant bipolar symptoms (and very little anxiety, irritability or cognitive challenges) in more than a year, after having them most days for 5 years.

[@jan_ellison_baszucki]

I know that Iain was on an anti-depressant when he started keto that he had tried, unsuccessfully, to get off before. Once on keto, he tapered off the anti-depressant and has been med and symptom free for several years.

[@nitpm8088]

@@jan_ellison_baszucki what was his zyprexa dose in Am and Pm? Especially pm dose Drop down 2.5 every week? If he can not get enough sleep what is the back up plan? Great great video.!!! Thanks to all

[@stefanosazzini3852]

@@jan_ellison_baszucki thanks for the answer, I just started keto from 1 week, it s hard, do you think exogenous ketone can help me, anxiety is going up

[@jan_ellison_baszucki]

@@stefanosazzini3852 We don't have any data on exogenous ketones, but Matt does use them to supplement the diet, especially when tapering medications. KetoStart from Audacious Nutrition. But best to use under a doctor's supervision.

[@TemoteControl]

What are your thoughts on Fasting with bipolar?

[@ketobipolar]

I like intermittent fasting to help reach deeper levels of ketosis. I feel best when I mostly fast during the day and eat one large meal at night. - Iain

[@TemoteControl]

@@ketobipolar agreed.

[@Man-u-flex]

6.0 ketones don’t mean you have ketoasidosis bro it’s when you go over 8.0

[@rawmilkmike]

Are you sure BBBE isn't the best way to start? It sounds like you may be relying too heavily on willpower. Sleep and exercise are sometimes the result of a good diet. And for some carnivore works much better than keto. That's why I say start with BBBE. Bad dietary advice is not fair. It's advertising or you could say free enterprise. Where corporations are completely out of control. I know that's not actually free enterprise. That's a monopoly. It sounds like zyprexa was causing some of your symptoms. Isn't it possible that weed and a plant heavy diet may have caused your illness?

[@jan_ellison_baszucki]

Weed certainly didn't help. But it's always a combination of many factors that trigger an illness like bipolar (in my opinion).