Birth of Catherine of Aragon (Isabel s02e10)

[@Randomlyrics-yi7sb]

In England : WE NEED A BOY HEIR In Spain : oh cool I have a daughter and heir

[@mosvi6587]

😔

[@milenavilla1053]

XD 🤣🤣🤣 It really true 😂😂😂

[@ddthewolf]

Well to be fair, they already had a son

[@Sriwijaya888]

Both england and spain reached golden age thru its queens, Isabel and Elizabeth

[@peadar-o]

In Spain women may not have been true equals of men in those days, but daughters had more rights regarding inheritances (including properties and titles) in their own right. In England most titles were created and only sometimes with a remainder to female heirs being able to inherit, but in Castile and Aragon it was much more progressive.

[@rachalcross3371]

That must've been really hard back in that time, abstinence was the only way to prevent pregnancy, and they were still a fairly young married couple that loved each other. I really admire Ferdinand though, making that decision to save Isabella. The definition of love💗

[@miab.9521]

Truest definition of love there ever was.

[@LaKellita]

He had mistresses. Lots of them.

[@soledadferrer1325]

I simply cannot believe that abstinence was the only way to prevent pregnancy that they knew. Surely they found the way around it. It is just natural to feel sexual attraction to your partner.

[@rachalcross3371]

@@soledadferrer1325 Be that as it may, with Isabella as religious as she was, she may not have agreed to the "alternative methods." Afterall, especially at the time, the church viewed avoiding conception in such a way as sinful. Isabella probably gave in at times, but she knew her most passionate days with Ferdinand were over.

[@rachalcross3371]

@@LaKellita I'm not justifying infidelity, but Ferdinand respected her enough to preserve her life. Other kings were known to disregard such prognoses and their wives would end up dying in childbirth.

[@ddthewolf]

I know it probably didn't happen like that in real life but I find it utterly adorable seeing Ferdinand holding Baby Catherine as a proud papa

[@elocriativa]

It's impressive how the English still admire queen Catherine even 500 years later. She is probably more popular than her husband.

[@natwel1544]

I don’t want to be Machiavellian but Even with the Popes seal. The king cheated on the queen regularly and eventually stopped loving her. Her daughter Mary executed Lady Jane grey just because Edward recommended her to the throne , burnt Thomas Cranmer even after he recounted and blame him for her parents divorce even though Mary signed a contract saying her parents’ marriage was never valid and she was a bastard. The physician did NOT check that Catherine was a virgin while filing a dispensation of Arthur which left the king with legal problems later in the marriage.

[@Meow_Zedong_1949]

The English people titled Anne Boleyn as the great whore. Most of England celebrated her execution seeing the great whore removed from the court and hoped England would return to normal and return to the Catholic world, this was not to be.

[@angelacremonte9413]

@@Meow_Zedong_1949 that was the English Catholics. The English protestants glorified her and I think even at the time of Queen Victoria she was still glorified specially since there were some Victorian inventions about her like where she was imprisoned and the location of her execution site.

[@Meow_Zedong_1949]

@@angelacremonte9413 I'm moreso referring to the time when Anne Boleyn was alive. England was predominantly Catholic at the time and very few subscribed to reformist beliefs of any kind. When Henry VIII broke away from the Catholic church, his decision was met with almost universal condemnation with many in England believing he condemned the entire kingdom to hell. Anne also became a target because with her being a Protestant, it was likely that she encouraged him to break away from Rome hence she got the name "The great whore". As England became more Protestant over the next few hundred years, her reputation began to improve, her daughter's reign also helped.

[@Meow_Zedong_1949]

@HANNA ARDIANSYAH I stated "As England became more Protestant over the next few hundred years, her reputation began to improve, her DAUGHTER'S reign also helped".

[@Momspennies2]

Such a blessing you have given us Lili. We can't get this series here in the U S A and can't buy it on DVD either. I have watched the whole series over 10 times when it was on two other sites complete. And we appreciate that you have taken the time to add English Subtitles as well! Best historical series EVER!

[@mariamamariama6747]

Poor Cathrine ,hard birth ,hard marriage and hard death

[@soledadferrer1325]

Her birth was not hard.

[@mariamamariama6747]

@@soledadferrer1325 As the scene showed that the life of her mother was in danger because of her pregnancy

[@soledadferrer1325]

@@mariamamariama6747 yes, but it turned out to be a smooth birth, despite the fears. I mean Maria's birth, THAT was a miracle. Having survived both mother and child back then such a complicated pregnancy, was surely miraculous.

[@Magdalenkaization]

@@soledadferrer1325 Probably details of both Isabella's last births are FICTIONAL in order to make a series more interesting.

[@soledadferrer1325]

@@Magdalenkaization yes, you might be right.

[@HiveMistress]

When I watch this part, I always think 'awwww, little Catherine!'

[@gigiem9303]

The actress playing Isabel reminds me so much of the actress playing Claudine in Versailles.

[@gloriaotasowie8896]

Esactly ! Well actually not really but I’m excited that someone saw the show ahahaha.

[@sarahnixdorf1]

Catherine of Arragon.makes her entrance into the world. Happy proud parents.

[@camilojoseacevedo8525]

La Reina Catalina de Aragón siempre ha sido admirada y recordada por el pueblo británico.!

[@ilenebillingsley7516]

Love this series..thank you!

[@Lily1127channel]

You are very welcome 😊

[@magdashears1233]

I think this scene proves how this series is responsible about portraying sex in the Middle Ages. Other shows would flaunt nudity to be edgy and lure viewers. It happens in the first episode (Juana and Isabella seeing sex), but the series makes a point about consequences. Juana of Portugal suffers the double standards that confronted female adulterers but not men. Raised in a religious household, Isabella fears consummation and finds it uncomfortable that sex can be for pleasure. She finds advice from her physician, the clergy, and other women. Her heart is broken when Ferdinand cheats. Her pregnancies place her in literal danger. And it culminates to this moment when the famously chaste Isabella tearfully argues that sex and bearing children are proofs of love. And then the womanizer Ferdinand tells her that abstinence and keeping her safe are equal proofs too. Most historical shows try to pursue an idealized feminism that rarely existed then. Sometimes defying misogyny just can’t be the solution to every problem, and “Isabel” shows exactly that and addresses it anyway without sweeping the issue away entirely. Sometimes the realization how far women have come in terms of education, maternal health, and legal rights is more empowering than any sword-wielding female can hope to inspire.

[@gennaronarducci1333]

Quiet ironic how Isabel of castile was such a powerful woman, yet her daughters had such an unfortunate end

[@enjoyingmyvodka1013]

True

[@SonyaOutThere]

And just think: her only surviving grandchild through Catherine of Aragon, Mary Tudor, would die childless while thinking she is pregnant.

[@Meow_Zedong_1949]

The sad reality is likely that the child Mary thought she was bearing was nothing more than a tumour within her womb, given we know now she died of ovarian cancer.

[@melieflynn-hayes7996]

Even her parents loved each other like she did Henry

[@TheAnastasiaLee]

All her kids lives were pretty awful. Even Maria, who was effectively a brood mare, carrying children constantly till it killed her. Just awful.

[@Kolchak_Enjoyer]

The baby is freaking cute!

[@elcartucherasrm7077]

@Hermine Yami great-grandmother*

[@LaKellita]

Aw, Henry Viii first wife

[@ddthewolf]

4:01 "the last child we'll have" That news even shut Catherine up lol

[@maearcher4721]

I find it strange that Isabella and Catherine both stopped having kids relatively young-34 and 33. You'd be surprised, but even at the time some women gave birth in their late 30s and Elizabeth Woodville had her last child at 43. It was certainly possible for noble-women and royal women, who had good diet to have child in their late 30s. Even at the time. Genetical predisposition to some issue perhaps? Such possibility makes it even more frustrating that she had such long-widowhood. Isabella had plenty of time to have kids.

[@Lily1127channel]

They say that in Isabella's case, it was a conscious decision not to have more kids, just like here in the series (a historian said this who commented the episodes). The pregnancies and the labours started to have a very negative effect on her health, and she and Ferdinand decided that the queen's life is more precious so it is not worth the risk. Before Catherine, there was a twin birth that nearly cost Isabella's life (as twin births usually did in that time, sadly), so when she still became pregnant with Catherine, they decided that would be the last. But sadly there is nothing strange in a woman not getting pregnant after 34. It still happens with all the modern medicine, and it was quite common back then not to get pregnant after age 35. There were exceptions, like you mentioned, but after 35 the probability dropped quickly.

[@jackieb.2642]

I think the reason Catherine couldn’t conceive toward the end was because of Henry.

[@maearcher4721]

@@jackieb.2642 And I think it was because she had infection fallowing 1st stillbirth. Her belly grew after stillbirth!...How long as her fans are we going to ignore this? No need to search for somebody to blame. Henry nor Catherine... Back then medicine was bad! That would be the main reason for that infection!

[@JonathanDelgado95]

It is a very interesting thing, but I don't think it was a genetic thing. If you Kristin Downey book “Isabella: Warrior Queen” she mentions Isabella having an infection after Catherine's birth, but I take this with a pinch of salt, because the typo in that passage, gave Catherine's date of birth as January 16, 1486. It is possible they decided that 5 children was enough, especially since they were in the middle of the Reconquista. I don't think there was early menopause. That's what they say about Catherine of Aragon, but household accounts show she was menstruating as late as 1527. I personally think Henry just gave up unfortunately

[@maearcher4721]

@@JonathanDelgado95 I think we both might be wrong and right at same time. An infection is of course possible to cause infertility. I think the overlooked huge infection after Catherine's first pregnancy(mistaken by historians for phantom pregnancy) is the real cause of why so many of her pregnancies ended up in tragedy. I think it did some inner damage, increasing chances of miscarriage and stillbirth. But infection is unlikely to stop royal couples sleeping together. Pressure to push out royal babies was huge back then. Heir and spare, ideally. Not every royal caved, but usually those who didnt were not married but widowed and refusing to remarry. I didnt check it myself. (Often when i check the alleged source it is not there!) But lets say Quen Catherne indeed menstruated until 1527. Am I wrong about menopause then? Yes! But perhaps not totally off track. What we know for sure is that Catherine had no pregnancy after 1518. After 33, no pregnancy. However Henry didnt gave up upon trying until about 1525, when Catherine turned 40. That is not unreasonable. Curiously he later describes their intimacy as being unpleasant last couple of years. If he was not lying-beside menopause, what could be the cause? -Perimenopause with it woman has plenty of symptoms and issues associated with menopause, but keeps menstruating. Beside infertility, it can cause low libido, dryness and other symptoms making sex unpleasant(hence Isabella and Ferdinand's decision), and has strong genetical component. Although enviroment also plays role.

[@milenanatta8676]

È una serie di grande interesse,interpretata da attori eccezzionali

[@lucieelizabethannwesson7016]

Honoring her ancestor how wonderful

[@bettyminch7033]

I don't think Ferdinand loved anyone that much in his entire life.

[@petraskvarc317]

no wonder the series took all sortes of accolades

[@northsouth6739]

Can anyone tell me where can I watch season 2 & 3 with English subtitles? Thanks. Watch season 1 but can’t seem to find the rest , really enjoy watching this series.

[@crikitaftw]

Here: wlext.net/series/isabel-season-2?server=openloadco&episode=001

[@morfin51]

Amazon prime has the series, Isabel

[@scottibrown3274]

Out of curiosity, was it the norm back then that nuns helped with Royal childbirths?

[@b.3049]

Scotti Brown i am nor sure of nuns specifically were the norm. Among commons it would not have been, there were midwives. Perhaps these nuns were performing midwives for aristocracy. What I do know, is that only women were permitted in the birthing room. Giving birth was a female happening, so male doctors (at the time the only trained physicians) were not allowed. This made childbirth only more dangerous.

[@vilwarin5635]

I don´t think they were nuns. Women those days (specially widows or women who had a job) wore this kind of uniform that resembles a religious dress

[@Lily1127channel]

@@b.3049 It depended on the area if they allowed male doctors or not. At this time in Castile, the court doctor (Lorenzo Badoz) was the one who lead Isabella's childbirths.

[@maearcher4721]

@@b.3049 I disagree about birth with male attending being safer. Exactly because males didn't usually attend birth, they often had no idea what was supposed to be going on. Midwives through practise knew at least something about it. Do you want biggest example how clueless male physicians could be? In 1510 after Catherine had out of sudden suffered stillbirth during night, her spanish ladies didn't went to fetch english midwives but instead informed her male physicians. Catherine even started menstruating but her physicians convinced her she was carrying second child. Midwife would find it strange at least, but they weren't told. For over 6 weeks Queen Catherine was hoping, Henry too. But there was no second baby. The reason why Catherine's belly stayed swollen was massive infection. Midwives at the time would know that placenta is supposed to come out. Would use herbs to try to get it out. But nothing was done, because it was males advising Catherine and they didn't have a clue, in what danger they were putting her in. She could have died. She survived and didn't become completely barren. But that infection is most likely why she and Henry lost so many children later on.

[@mariahoulihan9483]

Spain was a Catholic country and nuns did perform as nurses and were seen as trustworthy. many were high born.

[@sweetielaprincessa2467]

Sometimes I wonder what their marriage was really like. In reality, there probably wasn't that much love between them.

[@Lily1127channel]

Based on the historical records and their letters to each other, there certainly was very deep affection and respect between them.

[@whitneychesser1]

Hi I’m new to this show! Who is the woman at 1:46

[@Lily1127channel]

Isabella and Ferdinand's eldest child, Princess Isabella. 15 years older than Catherine (born in this scene).

[@lucieelizabethannwesson7016]

Catherine of Lancaster daughter of John of Gaunt and Constance of Castile

[@Rich-ps6wh]

the younger half-sister of Henry IV of England and Philipa of Lancaster (who was ALSO by co-incidence Isabella's great-grandmother.)

[@robertb4000]

30 years later Bloody Mary was born and 50 years later she died

[@andreafonseca5570]

Infelizmente o parto era de alto risco de vida para a mulher na idade média, métodos arcaicos, medicina atrasada, enfim, significava em muitos casos a morte para mulher ou filho. Muitos estranharam os sultões muçulmanos, por terem um harem, justamente para garantir herdeiros masculinos ao trono, tendo em vista a alta mortalidade das mulheres e também das crianças no início da infância, por causas diversas.

[@kenna163]

English shows are a lot more graphic when it comes to those scenes.

[@jagatdave]

What are those coins at 1.19 which doctor is having in his hand ??it it his good luck???prayer type???

[@Lily1127channel]

In a previous scene, he says that it is a custom for him to place a coin on that chain after each successful birth he leads.

[@annstillwell730]

Now if only Maria's husband had been so considerate she might have lived longer.

[@LauraHrubovcakova]

What IS the movie called?

[@Lily1127channel]

Isabel

[@tv-xi1xq]

wow baby birth child is bron im so happy now ^^ but baby so cute

[@yukiasiandream7483]

Link to where I can watch

[@joshuaba]

December 16 1485

[@Lizzie-ve7kt]

Was Ferdinand actually in the room with Isabella while she gave birth? That would be so sweet if he were. I know a lot of the norms of the time and even up until the 20th century has it so that many fathers either didn’t see it as their place or were discouraged from being in the room.

[@helene4397]

He would not have been in the room, nor the male doctor.

[@Lily1127channel]

@@helene4397 The male doctor was Isabella's personal physician in real life as well, and he was present at her birth. He actually led 4 of her 5 childbirths. Ferdinand wasn't.

[@Herbsandspices100]

I love Catherine of Aragon!!! But men weren’t allowed in the birthing chamber. Or was that just in England?

[@Lily1127channel]

In Spain it wasn't that strict. Queen Isabella's personal doctor who led all her labors was also a man.

[@Herbsandspices100]

@@Lily1127channel Thanks :)

[@mcsiegrist]

Qué ignorancia la de esa época. Por suerte todos los hijos de los reyes católicos llegaron a edad adulta.

[@ginadepedro2829]

mother of Bloody Mary and Daughter of King Ferdinand who started the Spanish Inquisition

[@barnaby4232]

Isabel started it, Ferdinand was reluctant to start in in aragon

[@kittygranollers6232]

Biggest mistake ever, they needed another boy.

[@alondraperez-ramirez8363]

If not for Katherine, England might never had realized a woman can rule so show some respect.

[@Lily1127channel]

I think she means it was a mistake from Isabella and Ferdinand to decide not to have more children (considering Prince John's fate). Not that it was a mistake from Catherine to be a girl

[@kittygranollers6232]

@@Lily1127channel exactly what I meant. Their duty was to have another boy.

[@Lily1127channel]

Apparently in the series they thought they were safe with having already John 😥 Btw I doubt it happened like this in real life. I think it was just that Isabella didn't get pregnant again, being in her mid thirties and passing through difficult miscarriages and labours, they tried but she didn't conceive anymore.

[@kittygranollers6232]

@@Lily1127channel i also watched the "after the episode" specials, since this was made by a public Network with historians talking about it. And it was true, they decided not to risk her life anymore. However Im sure Isabelle was not 100% behind that decision, cuz above all "she was a state woman", before mother and wife.

[@tv-xi1xq]

god son inthe hodispor aman concrates isabella pricess

[@islamtansuva3102]

The cruel lady of history

[@jonchipiron5430]

+ DEUS VULT +

[@blurose6348]

@@jonchipiron5430And you can take your virtue signaling preachings and shove it up a pear. Not everybody is gonna have purely good opinions on rulers. Maybe learn to accept that people in history can be susceptible to criticism as they are to praise. I’m tired of christians like you constantly preaching to others when they clearly never expressed interest to discuss or want the religion. Acting with pious arrogance that even “God” themselves will frown for all it’s stupidity.