Bishop Barron on Biblical Family Values

Another part of a video series from Wordonfire.org. Bishop Barron will be commenting on subjects from modern day culture. For more visit www.wordonfire....

[@BishopBarron]

@Water4Jeremiah "The only people attracted to the Christian faith tend to be jaded misanthropes..." Hmmm... Johann Sebastian Bach, Albert Schweitzer, John Wesley, Francis of Assisi, Dorothy Day, G.K. Chesterton, Isaac Newton,John Paul II. I mean, friend, you could say many things about those people, but "jaded misanthropes" doesn't exactly spring to mind.

[@Spike294]

Never fail to blow my mind, Bishop Barron.

[@reginasmith9155]

Wow! I love this teaching. Thank you and may God continue to guide you and bless your work.

[@powlly5738]

Wow! Thank you bishop for the teaching with a deep message. Difficult for us mere mortals. We need to trust and love God and pray for his help like Jesus and all the Saints did. 🙏🙏

[@michaelalam8653]

one of your best father

[@2010teg]

Father, This video was exceptionally great for touching better than I have seen the issue of family and vocation. God bless!

[@CarcharodonMeg]

Thumbs up for a video on the Rosary from Fr Barron!

[@JamesDaSilvamusic]

I've watched alot of your videos Bishop Barron. This may be the most outstanding one I've seen! God bless you and all that you do in evangelizing people through the internet.

[@retsea1]

Been saying to God if he chose not to go up on that hill. If Abraham had indulged in fear, he would've been saying, "God, I cherish my son, my only son, so much so that I will not kill him." If Abraham cherished his son that much, he would've been denying God's power to renew Abraham's blessing. For example, in everyday life, if you're call to give up your business and follow God, you not following him would saying that God doesn't have the power to bless you with a new, more abundant business

[@reginasong5733]

Yes, we all belong to God, eventually. Parents are God's instrument to raise children in God's own will and purpose. I have always taught my children in that way.

[@BishopBarron]

@itslifeisall Did you actually read what I said?! I didn't say a thing about translations. I complained about what Luther called "private interpretation." Translations of the Bible are great; private interpretation, which is to say, interpretation apart from the church, has been a disaster.

[@inadunham4034]

This is true today as 10 years ago when you shared this sermon.

[@roniquebreauxjordan1302]

..helping them find their path...💃💃..yes...fhat's the goal..

[@AdversusHaereses]

St Thomas teaches us that the main purpose of families is to fill heaven with saints.

[@retsea1]

Well, I can't keep clarifying on the same point over and over if you're just going to ignore it, so I will close here with the simplistic version of my point: if death befalls, it wasn't God. However, it was nice conversing with you while it lasted. God Bless.

[@norbusganklepuss68]

This is one of the strongest arguments I've heard for a libertarian approach to the politics of family, in a long time. Isaac, not belonging to Abraham, but to God, means Abraham is the custodial executor of a trust with God. That child is a promise to God, that Abraham must keep. Our children do not belong to us, and they do not belong to the state. They belong to God. And only the God-given power to bring a life into the world can bind a man to that custodianship responsibility. To give your children over to the state, therefore, is to illegitimately vacate that duty.

[@BishopBarron]

@itslifeisall I might suggest that you approach the story with a little more interpretive finesse. It's about the spirituality of sacrifice: what, precisely, are you willing to give back to God? I wouldn't press it in a literalistic direction.

[@glennwilliams3349]

Nothing on earth reflects God more than the family. God made them man and woman. They are two persons, but when they marry, they become one, in two persons. Nine months later, their love results in a third person, now there are three persons yet they remain one. God made us in His image and likeness, three distinct persons in one family, like the one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in the one Holy Trinity.

[@itslifeisall]

@3rosesred Though "sacrifice" may in fact mean "to set aside", it does not change the fact that this is a story about a man who has a knife to his son's throat.

[@JeffersonDinedAlone]

Yes, according to the Biblical text, God stopped Abraham from killing his child. However, before that moment, Abraham didn't know that God would.

[@JesuitsRule]

@Water4Jeremiah (continued) -- To put it another way: if humanity is not fallen, that means evil is just what we are. But if humanity is fallen, that means evil is NOT what we really are - it’s a sickness, with the possibility of a cure. If there's nothing "wrong" with humanity, as you seem to imply, then how can we hope for a better future, if we're already as healthy as we'll ever be? But if there IS something wrong (original sin), then things can get better -- there can be redemption.

[@kikojoseph4817]

Careful - the story (both Jesus and the one with Abraham) have an even deeper meaning - not mutually exclusive in the teaching.

[@BishopBarron]

@itslifeisall I don't think it should be read naively or literalistically. It's a theological story, designed to communicate a profound truth.

[@itslifeisall]

@wordonfirevideo I agree, it's a theological story. But by pressing it in a more literalistic direction, you see the degree of patriarchal brutality attributed to God in early texts, from using God ordering one to kill their son to communicate a profound truth, to people being smitten and besieged with plagues by God for their transgressions. As God changes in the texts through the ages, and from old testament to new, we see that these are not depictions of God, but rather man's images of God.

[@retsea1]

go up on the hill, he would've done two things: denied the justness and certainty of God's Word and stripped his own son of the blessing of Israel. Not only would Abraham have denied the justness and certainty of God's Word, but he would have denied the very blessing that was meant for his son, Isaac. So the test of faith for Abraham was to believe that the God he served would never go back on his word. I mean, if you think about the story in full context, it shows so much about Abraham as . . .

[@3abdulmesii7]

@itslifeisall I'm sure that if you always make truth your first concern, you will end up in the right place.

[@3abdulmesii7]

@Water4Jeremiah There are two arguments against Christianity that I hear: 1) Christianity is too pessimistic. Christians believe in stuff like original sin and hell. 2) Christianity is too optimistic. Christianity believes in stuff like angels and heaven. Which one is it?

[@Jwet1100]

Luke 14:26 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters-yes, even their own life-such a person cannot be my disciple.

[@BishopBarron]

@itslifeisall That's why these stories should be read within the interpretive community of the church. Luther's call for all people to interpret the Bible according to their own lights has been a disaster.

[@BishopBarron]

@Water4Jeremiah We have a whole bevy of arguments for the existence of God. Take a look at my videos on this and on Christopher Hitchens.

[@3abdulmesii7]

@itslifeisall Dude. The truth sets us free. If I interpret scripture the wrong way, I am still not free. What guarantee have you that your interpretation of scripture is the right one?

[@itslifeisall]

@BloodSweatTiers True, and a good thing too. I imagine that after having had dad put the knife to his throat, little Issac may have gone through his teen years just a wee bit on the rebellious side.

[@itslifeisall]

@3abdulmesii7 Hey, congratulations! Sounds like you've got everything pretty well figured out. Myself, I'm enjoying the mystery of it all, the continual challenge of opening my heart a bit more and the wonder of the diversity of Divine expression in the world. All the best to you.

[@3abdulmesii7]

@itslifeisall Clearly you haven't read the Wikipedia article on this. I quote: "...a commonly held misconception that the medieval church universally opposed translation and lay access to the Bible. In fact, the church's position on the matter was much more nuanced and case-dependent, responding to the motives of those producing and using a given translation and taking into account the perceived threat of heretical and anticlerical movements in a given region or language group."

[@dumpmist]

@Water4Jeremiah "Until you can prove that your god actually exists, please leave." That would be an awful world if no one had the right to express or discuss new (and old) ideas, because that is the way we learn to understand each other, and how we often learn new things.

[@retsea1]

. . . would be safe. Now, this is just the test portion of my interpretation of the story, and as it is long, so is the symbolic portion. If you (or anyone else reading) wishes to hear the symbolic portion, I will follow up with a post upon request. I just don't want to overflow the comment section with both portions at once.

[@retsea1]

I would place argument against that, but that's beside the point. The point of my reply to you is that God doesn't condone human sacrifice, and if it is indeed God that tells you to sacrifice another person, you won't even get the chance to harm that person. If, however, you do bring harm to that person, then that isn't God that you heard. That's why the Bible tells us to test the spirits; God isn't the only voice capable of being heard.

[@3abdulmesii7]

@itslifeisall The Catholic Church provided numerous common-language translations of the Bible; that she didn't is just not true. St. Thomas More was asked about Wycliffe's translation of the Bible into English, and he cited a large number of previous translations. The trouble, he said, was that Wycliffe's translation was bad.

[@BloodSweatTiers]

@itslifeisall except that the Deuteronomy laws weren't around yet, there where no city elders

[@herminiaraagas3757]

What really is the story of CHRIST's hidden years from the wedding in Canna to HIS 30th year?

[@3abdulmesii7]

@dumpmist Original sin, boiled down, means that we are screwed up. Water4Jeremiah said that believing original sin makes a person a misanthrope, since it entails that a person believe that humanity is somehow screwed up. My point is merely that we are somehow screwed up, since we need policemen and stuff to keep us in line. Now original sin does involve a lack of certain preternatural gifts, which are not the sort of thing that a person can see under a microscope.

[@JesuitsRule]

@Water4Jeremiah -- You said, "anyone who believes in original sin is a misanthrope -- you think there's something wrong with humanity." Compared to that of the early Reformers, the Catholic view of original sin has always been more optimistic: human nature is wounded, but not totally destroyed -- "there lives the dearest freshness deep down things," as the poet Gerard Manley Hopkins, SJ wrote. Also... (see next comment)

[@5355vbxjbj76rvn]

Very good exposition of Gen.22 - *but*, the ethical question remains: is a God who demands what (most people would think) is immoral, a God to be heeded ? And if a mother says "God told me to kill my children" - why is that plea not acceptable in a court of law ? Should not Abraham have dismissed the command as evil ? The argument from God's dominion over all creatures is impressive, but has too many holes: it ignores whether a command is good. & righteous.

[@retsea1]

@JaneAlex09 Well, it has nothing to do with it's all for a greater purpose. It was to display his trust in God. Why? Because, ultimately, man has to notice and come to the conclusion that God would not ask us to do something evil. In the end, the boy was never in danger. So, in essence, he brought Abraham to a greater understanding of the grace and mercy of the God he served, thereby reinforcing his trust.

[@retsea1]

There's also the implication that if Abraham had denied going up on that hill, he would have been denying the righteousness and justness of God. He would have, in that instant, committed the same atrocity as Adam & Eve: denying God's justness & righteousness & certainty of his Word. And with that question comes the question of what was God's Word to Abraham? Well, God's Word to Abraham was that He would make him nation. Not only that, but Isaac would be it's patriarch. If Abraham didn't . . .

[@retsea1]

You have to understand that God requesting Abraham to kill his son was two things: a test as well as symbolic. I will try to cover both aspects as best I can. Let's start with the test aspect first. The first thing I want to point out is that you don't seem to see the story in full context. It's easy to see the beginning and say that God's request was unjust and immoral, but when you see the story in full context you see that God never intended for Isaac to die in the first place. The angel . .

[@3abdulmesii7]

@itslifeisall Truth leads to freedom, not experience. The bickering is good; it means that we're all trying to find out what the truth is. We can never surrender or submit to anyone who suggests that we ought not seek Truth in its fullness. Truth is extrinsic to us. It exists outside of us. We can, by the natural light of reason, arrive at certain truths, but God has revealed mysteries to us that can only be known by the supernatural light of faith.

[@3abdulmesii7]

@itslifeisall Yes, but what if you and another Protestant disagree on interpretation of scripture? Does one of you not have the Kingdom of God within you properly? Does someone not love Jesus enough? What is it? There are THOUSANDS of Protestant denominations. They all preach different things. That means that the majority of them must be preaching heresy. If they are all the Church, that must mean that preaching heresy does not separate a person from the Church.

[@retsea1]

So now the question is: what was the test? Well, the test to determine Abraham's faith. Did Abraham have enough love and trust in God's power to know that if he killed his son God would surely be able to give him another? Did Abraham have the faith to know that God's Word is always just? Did he have the faith to know that God promised Isaac as the patriarch of a nation? You see, there are a lot of implications in the story of Abraham about Faith and Fear. Just think of what Abraham would've . .

[@simonplant]

Hi Bishop Barron I just wanted to ask you if you could clarify what u mean in the daily scripture feed for today when u say I should put god before even my family!My family is everything to me and I thought that was how the church and god meant it to be?Can u clarify(I haven’t watched the video above yet) +

[@BishopBarron]

Your family should be loved for the sake of God.

[@simonplant]

Many thanks for replying Bishop.Unfortunately I suffer from schizophrenia and just recently I have been really happy because I have been re-devoted to my family because I believed that was Gods and the churches will.I had a nightmare last night as well so I “got out of bed on the wrong side” so I was particularly vulnerable but the feed “ who is my family “ tipped me into a profound despair it’s not your fault but it came over to me as a selfish philosophy in the aggressive secularism of the world today- the “ me” philosophy 🙏

[@simonplant]

The philosophy that says “ your happiness is paramount anybody that gets in the way of that “ just dump them!” It’s ok” like the Pharisees calling something “ Corban” to allow them to “ do there own thing “

[@itslifeisall]

@wordonfirevideo I'm afraid I'm on to you. You tipped your hand in a recent video. I now see that like Herod, with outlandish statements, you lure in (rather than imprison) and listen to those who enjoy a freedom to explore their spiritual life without the shackles of theological dogma and boundaries of accepted belief, thus vicariously enjoying a life free from the threat of censure or excommunication. It's OK, we understand. But on to your response to my post. Cont'd. ~

[@MrCamus1960]

Father Barron, were all the prophets real historical people?

[@DaveHof]

This is a tough one, Father. I've watched almost all your videos and they have not only been interesting and entertaining but have deepened my understanding of my Christian (but not Catholic) faith. But here - it is very difficult not to hear Jesus's response to his parents, who had been frantic for 3 days as you admit, as being smug and disrespectful - certainly not in keeping with the commandment to honor thy father and mother. Your explanation is intriguing, but contorts common sense.

[@dumpmist]

@esotericapeman The standard model of quantum physics predicts a specific number a particles with different qualities. So far we have found all but one, the god particle. Internally they called it the goddamn particle, in a jokingly way, because it was so goddamn hard to find. Then some editor didn't like the "damn" part, so the public got to known it as the god particle, although that didn't make it any easier to find. There is no special connection between the particle and god.

[@retsea1]

. . . well. Yes, I think everyone can see that God never intended for Isaac to die, and that in the long run, the Angel was always meant to intercede, but what about the powerful faith of Abraham? Here he is serving the Living God, El Shaddai, and this very God that seems just orders him to kill his son. The untold story in this sacrificial tale is the faith that Abraham had that God would never go back on his word, and even though he was ordered to kill his son, Abraham had faith that Isaac . .

[@3abdulmesii7]

@itslifeisall You sound rather like a Buddhist, sir. We Christians understand, that while we have an inner light, that inner light of Christ must be nourished and fed by extrinsic sources. People who get too caught up in themselves end up crazy. Do you believe in divine revelation, sir? Doesn't that come from outside of us? If the inner light is all that we need, why has God spoken?

[@ant7936]

And it should be "our baby", not "my baby". Fathers take part too.

[@itslifeisall]

@3abdulmesii7 Is it one's interpretation, or one's experience that leads to freedom? Are there not people from diverse faiths and teachings, Christian and non-Christian, that lead the selfless loving life of surrender to which Christ pointed, and also those from these same faiths and teachings that are bickering, self-serving, selfish and prone to violence? Is it not the experience of selfless love that leads to the Freedom to which Christ pointed, rather than teaching or interpretation?

[@LVCIVSTVLLIVSATELLVS]

@MrCamus1960 The way to tell this is to look at the historical records, which is lacking in the field. The Bible is the most historical accurate document of the prophets' times. While the prophets may not have been people, they could have been schools of thought, or a literary devise. Nevertheless they are key to understanding Israel's history. I would say that Isa, Jer, Eze, Hos, Joe, Amo, Oba, Mic, Nah, Hab, Zeph, Hag, Zec, & Mal were real; Isa, Jer, Zec had schools; and Jon was a lit. device

[@JeffersonDinedAlone]

If so, then when, precisely, would you know whether you were abiding by God's instruction, or abiding by the instruction of something else? If you are not prevented from killing the child, and you proceed to kill the child, it is a little late at that point for any discernment to hold any relevance.

[@BartBVanBockstaele]

@wordonfirevideo "Arguments" is not what you need. Since they are based on an anthology of myths and tales, they are meaningless. What you need is evidence.

[@itslifeisall]

@wordonfirevideo So, you don't think God really asked Abraham to kill his son, and at the last minute sent an angel to halt the action? It's just a tale meant to illustrate a higher spiritual principle?

[@BartBVanBockstaele]

@BartBVanBockstaele ... a Master for whose existence you don't even have the beginning of a shred of evidence.

[@itslifeisall]

@3abdulmesii7 On that, we could not be in greater agreement.

[@dumpmist]

@3abdulmesii7 "If there is no original sin, why do we need policemen?" I don't understand this argument. If, for example, original sin was just a make belief, then we would be the way we are for some other reason, perhaps a biological one.

[@missbellestar]

@Water4Jeremiah : Some people spend their earthly life hating God. Or blaming God, or spending all their breath to disprove the existence of God. Instead... why not direct your question to God Himself if you cannot believe even the proven History, and all His representative. Just blurt it our "GOD IF YOU ARE REAL HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND" search, study, dig deeper or else if you die next month without knowing God, your regret laterwill not be of used. I am praying for the proof you are looking for.

[@3abdulmesii7]

@itslifeisall Christ himself taught and interpreted the scriptures. He asserted that he was right about the resurrection, and the Saducees were wrong. The Pharisees argued with him quite a bit on many topics. Where does Christ teach that we reach freedom by experience? Doesn't he say that we must pursue the truth? I fear, sir, that you are asserting that certain ideas and concepts of yours come from Him. True selfless love makes us desire that all people may know the truth.

[@3abdulmesii7]

@dumpmist Original sin certainly has biological reprecussions though.

[@abominableangel]

hes had a lot of practice

[@retsea1]

Of course I wouldn't believe them. God, as proven in that account, doesn't accept human sacrifice. From what I remember, Abraham was stopped the moment he grabbed his knife: there wasn't even a chance for him bring harm to Isaac. God isn't the only voice capable of being heard.

[@retsea1]

. . . appeared because he was always meant to appear; from the beginning he was supposed to intercede. So when you say what you said about a Mother killing her children, the answer is this: God would never condone such evil. The woman who kills her children and attributes her actions to God contradicts, rather clearly, with the Abraham who was ordered to kill his son, yet was never supposed to kill him in the first place. If God told that woman to kill her children, they would still be alive . .

[@3abdulmesii7]

@itslifeisall You shouldn't say things like this if you want people to take you seriously.

[@SpeaksToDragons]

@missbellestar This digging deeper only in regards to the god you believe in. What about the Jew, the Hindu, the Muslim, the LDS, the Jehovah Witness or the many other hundreds of other religions that have existed or still exist today? Why choose the religion that you were born under? Or the one that happens to dominate your culture? Atheists don't hate God nor spend their days disapproving your religion. Its when you push religion as a science then their is conflict. Faith over evidence.

[@itslifeisall]

@wordonfirevideo For you to imply that the translation of the Bible into the common language of the people was not only a negative event, but disastrous, is simply ridiculous. Further, a predefined spiritual life with boundaries set forth by a dogmatic hierarchy is not only limiting, but also in direct opposition to the Midrashic tradition from which Christianity was born. Despite claims to the contrary, the Kingdom of Heaven is within you, and me, and all, independent of interpretation.

[@itslifeisall]

@3abdulmesii7 I am not Protestant and doubt the "Kingdom of Heaven" within will ever be found in scripture that is outside of you, or in the perfect interpretation of it. Isn't the "Kingdom of Heaven" an experience? Scriptures point the direction, but doesn't the individual have to surrender to the experience? The belief that one scripture or one interpretation of scripture is the key to Kingdom has led to much violence and blood shed in the name of God. Isn't that Hell, rather than Heaven?

[@itslifeisall]

@filthyswit You do have a choice as to how you depict God in stories that are not literal accounts, and it is a reflection not of God, but of the image people have of God at a given point in time.

[@3abdulmesii7]

@Water4Jeremiah If Christianity is all false except for one thing, that one thing would be original sin. If there is no original sin, why do we need policemen?

[@JeffersonDinedAlone]

Your error is that, if anyone (anyone) in the present killed their child and stated that God directed them to do so, they would be prosecuted and convicted of murder, and would either be sentenced to be executed, or to go to prison, or to go to a long-term mental health facility in lieu of prison. No one would believe them, including yourself.

[@willgreer4673]

Bishop openly reads the old testament as allegory.

[@JeffersonDinedAlone]

In actuality, as regards this particular consideration, you can't keeping failing to verify anything and expect me to accept the delusion that you have.

[@thegorn68]

@mthouser123 Get lost troll!

[@jkjkjk5827]

children belong to god? is that why god takes such great care of them?

[@filthyswit]

Mr. Barron, who are you talking to when you are making these vids?

[@filthyswit]

@itslifeisall Even if it was mean in the literal sense, did Abraham REALLY have a choice? God telling you to do anything is like the Mafia giving you an offer you can't refuse.

[@filthyswit]

@mthouser123 Not a fairy tale. Just misinterpreted and incomplete. Misinterpreted in the Zachariah Sitchen point of view. Incomplete because so many writings have been left out because they would be dangerous to the religion.