Bitcoin Q&A: What are PayNyms?

[@ketzalkiawitl]

Me encanta que tu libro en el fondo sea la traducción al español... Me parece muy inteligente de tu parte el interés que le has puesto últimamente al español. Felicidades por eso

[@imperia9pl]

Thanks for using good microphone!

[@RakibFiha]

And here I am struggling with a for loop for fk sake

[@daviddevriesere7967]

Thnx again Andreas! Always welcome @ our Crypto-resort in Spain!

[@rattle_]

This one was too technical didn't understand it completely but still it was so enjoyable to watch.

[@zeycus]

Awesome explanation! I have a doubt, though: if I receive a payment through my PayNym in, say, Samourai... would it end up in one of the addresses of the deterministic wallet I set with my 24 words? Or is it outside that keychain, and Samourai has to do something else to manage those other PayNym addresses?

[@chrisn5315]

All part of your keychain 👍🏻

[@deathmetaldxb]

Gr7 explanation as always but what are those floor mat, kitchen mat, table mat?

[@dirtydan2074]

Thanks for the explanation Andreas!

[@webpresent]

Thank you

[@mfkondel8282]

is this assuming alice and bob are trusting of one another or can this be between strangers

[@bilthon]

After going to red the BIP-47 spec, the first thing that stands out is that in the header there's this: " Comments-Summary: Unanimously Discourage for implementation". However I find this has been implemented in samurai wallet. In fact, I did some research after seeing it there. So what gives?

[@banzobeans]

Bob publishes a Paynym on-chain and thereafter anybody can pay Bob anonymously? i.e. there‘s no way to find out who has set up such a „channel“ with Bob? Only that Bob has set himself up to receive sucih payments (from anyone)?

[@MrB1923]

The first part wasn't the complicated bit? 🤯

[@mickhick95]

yes

[@HeadCRasher666]

Cool explanation! But as far as I understand it just helps you putting out a "single public address". If you give each of your donators one unique address it would be the same in the end? You still have the problem once you combine those payments and send everything to an exchange for example. Every donator (or forensic guy) see what you've earned. So you still need to do some mixing or spend each UTXO one by one. Right?

[@aantonop]

No, a PayNym is not like a regular bitcoin address. The PayNym / reuseable payment codes allow you to generate new addresses for each payment with that person, and they are the only person who knows the newly generated address belongs to you. They cannot correlate it to other addresses that other people may have used through your PayNym. If you then send all of those funds from different addresses to a KYC exchange, then yes, you are not only correlating those outputs together, but directly attaching your identity to those addresses in the exchange's database. There are methods of exchange which doesn't do this (decentralised, peer-to-peer, with cash, etc.)

[@luct3368]

@@aantonop how is this distinct from hd addresses?

[@luct3368]

@@aantonop when was bip47 implimented. How come I've heard nothing of this before?

[@aantonop]

github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0047.mediawiki

[@CairoQween]

Not to ask an under-intelligent question, but are promissory notes the same as Cryptocurrency and if not how is a note monitored as apposed to a coin?

[@brianfediuk]

Not a bad question at all! promissory notes are promises and can be broken. For example, the US Dollar used to be a promissory note for gold, but that promise no longer holds. People still use the US Dollar as a method for exchanging value, and it works just fine for now. In this example, the US Dollar was the promise for gold. At one point the US Dollar stopped being worth the promised amount in gold. You can no longer cash it out, but you could find a willing person to trade it. Cryptocurrency, in some forms, aims to BE the valuable asset in digital form. There is no promise to break, since the cryptocurrency is seen as the item of value instead of the thing it "promises". Money is weird :)

[@CairoQween]

Brian Fediuk fantastic answer! Thank you. I have been trying to find out how to monetize a Promissory Note. Essentially, I could just create a Cryptocurrency and crowdfund the value. Is that right?

[@brianfediuk]

I guess you could? I would suggest that you create a cryptocurrency that solves a problem in which decentralization is necessary for it to succeed. Otherwise, a centralized solution may be more of a solution. Reinventing the wheel won't automatically create value unless that cryptocurrency solves a specific issue. You want to monetize a promissory note? Those already exist in many forms, such as government currencies, store credit (store will give you goods or services in exchange for the credit), and many other forms. The thing is, you can't really FORCE a promissory note to be paid. Remember, promises can be broken. Unless the money were to be held in a third party holding the money, one could simply not pay and the note falls apart. That's why we use courts and legal processes integrated within our government system. If you want, shoot me an email and we can talk more, brianfediuk[at]gmail.com

[@user-DongJ]

@@CairoQween - Technically we can create anything (actual or virtual) & “crowdfund” it. Sadly, that's how scams, snake oil, placebo, Ponzi & pyramid schemes work too. In fact, many believe “old money” like (glassy) stones/ceramics & (glossy crowy/sea) shells (+ token money like feathers) has been used as money for > 10k years before “shiny” gold came along. Likewise, cows, knives, rice, barley, salt, pepper, spices, etc. has been used as money too. Some also regard males (& females) have been using/treating females bodies as money (or money making tools/assets) since the dawn of hominids/great-apes > 10 million years ago. Wealth-Money (& commodities) can be weird.

[@CairoQween]

@陳Jet Great Point! I could do that and legitimately so with a viable plan. Where is the template for that? Lol

[@peterwolf4474]

can you only pay to a paynym when using paynym by yourself or also if i dont have a paynym?

[@635574]

Basically one side shows paynym and then they establish secret bidirectional payment channel. So it is reusable and you can pay even if you arent the one with the paynym.

[@nion456789]

Smashed the like

[@Metaroids]

THIS IS A BULLTRAP! Just now it pumped but don't fall for it. It's a trap. I'm commenting to every recent crypto video to lessen the damage.

[@user-DongJ]

Lambo - If cryptos are Bulltraps, what about fiat/USD? They are good like gold or better?

[@erizonmacani3195]

陳Jet I actually don’t think he is talking trash about crypto’s. I think he is just saying in this moment bitcoin has been pumped (possibly artificially by third parties) and it is very likely to go back down. Even if it is a “bull trap” it doesn’t take anything away from bitcoins core fundamentals. It’s just a small financial drop in the ocean.

[@user-DongJ]

@@erizonmacani3195 - Good point. Some say gold, oil, silver, coffee, USD, CNY, etc. & news/votes/data are manipulated too. Gold use to be a financial drop when crops, livestocks & (sea/crowry) shells were the dominant money. I guess it may take a long time for virtual money to grow. Hopefully by/before 2025 instead of 2140.

[@MrB1923]

@@erizonmacani3195 This is correct.

[@erizonmacani3195]

陳Jet Yeh I’m hopping for that too. But I don’t think we need to hope that much because due to the very likely crash coming and crypto’s very amazing useful application it’s just a matter of time before this happens👍🏼