BiteMe Games Situation is Crazy

[@WyrmyrGames]

I think it’s unfair to see criticism from your subscribers as a betrayal. Many of the things they pointed out are things YOU have taught in your videos. We all want you to succeed and every harsh comment you get on a KZbin video or trailer is an opportunity for you to avoid that same criticism in a harsh review when the game comes out. I expect to see both of these games come out as planned but designed with a balance between the game you want to make and the critique you’ve received. You got this!

[@ramonpablito9154]

No it's completely fair and im tired of the fact we all act like it's not. If he hyped up the game to be revolutionary or something, then yea i would've been mad as hell to but this ain't what happened. They very clearly said in advance it would be a very small game and that it would use premade assets, they showed gameplay multiples times before and the reception was mostly positive on the streams. Trailer drops, everybody does a complete 180 and suddenly they act like they got lied to or something, calling it a cheap cash grab and some even going as far as saying it's a immoral game. Truth is this is what happens when there's a hate train, few people say extremely harsh things and then, like sheeps, everybody follows and avoid going against the train. Most people had thoughts in their head that would've never come out if it wasn't for the train enabling it. What i saw in the MGG trailer wasn't criticism, it was ruthless bashing

[@JeromeMillion]

​@@ramonpablito9154you ignore the fact that we don't all have time to watch the livestreams or follow everything that is said on social media etc. Some people enjoy following them here on KZbin and didn't see that coming. So this is a communication blunder, it happens, but it's not fair either to think the viewers are betraying them or not caring. Things were 100% not clear and confusing.

[@petestone6327]

He probably meant in a sarcasm way.

[@ramonpablito9154]

@@JeromeMillion Y'all don't have time to watch his videos but you have the time to write a paragraph to tell him why his game is dog shit

[@JeromeMillion]

@@ramonpablito9154 I don't have time to watch 2-3hr livestreams regularly yes. I don't really see how that would be weird or hard to understand? I watch most videos. And here I'm taking some time to comment because I think they are having an issue with their game / trailer and giving them our opinion can actually help them. If you think feedback is being mean / hating and you need to jump at everyone giving feedback, well you won't be able to improve much. I'm a user experience designer IRL and my whole job is asking for feedback and taking criticism and improving based on that feedback..sometimes it's tough, but it's the only way to improve.

[@I_Love_Sauce]

You might want to unban the guy at 7:05, the "mildly dislikes you" thingy is a bad joke on how your earlier comment in that section was about how you "strongly dislike" the copium guy

[@Draekdude]

As a Game Dev and Patreon supporter, the communication you have with your community is the sole reason I will continue to be a supporter. I really don't care what games you make, I just hope you find success and I will be here to watch it happen.

[@NickyDekker89]

The problem is that it looks like a glorified prototype, it wasn't ready to be shown to the world yet. That's fine if you are just making a devlog or a tutorial but not for an announcement trailer.

[@thiagod47]

Bottom line I think is that the game wasn't ready to have a trailer made out of it. But keep going and make it a great game in the end!

[@mandisaw]

This. It's why AAA will get coy about showing gameplay in early announcement trailers, and plaster it with "Not Final Art" and such. The Office Space game trailer relies on implied spookiness and tells us almost nothing. Anime games are so art dependent, even if the story & gameplay are good, people will judge.

[@IcarusTheEagle]

All I'm gonna say is that if you reacted to your own trailer with the same objectivity that you reacted to other people's trailers here (that you are very honest about), you would not be impressed. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just being honest. I know this isn't some kind of magnum opus dream game, but it's true that the art direction should have been thought about more when making this trailer. maybe simply adding more saturation to the colors and adding a cell shader or something might make it more cohesive. but yeah yeah, i haven't made anything yet, so who am I to judge? All I'm doing, however, is basing my rubric on the one you use to judge other people's trailers. I think you have the skills to get it done, and i think if the colors and shader was more cohesive, people wouldn't perceive it as negatively.

[@devvie_hu]

Truth matters less, than perception in most cases. Even though the horror game is just a demo scene, if people don't recognize it or get turned off by it, then it doesn't matter. That's also why asset flips are not inherently a problem if it's done well. But gameplay feel is harder to communicate in a trailer, so at first look the inconsistent art style, the UI and the overall "default unity look" to the magical girl game is off-putting for many people.

[@brandongregori995]

How exactly are people supposed to pay attention to the game mechanics while being distracted by the extremely unpolished art style and grating music?

[@KummoDeveloper]

"Assetflips aren't bad". I fully understand what you tried to say there but i feel like you wanted to use different wording. Maybe "using assets isn't bad" or "just using assets doesn't make the game bad" probably was what you meant. Maybe you misused the term in your frustration or maybe u don't exactly know what it means? Assetflip is shovelware (low effort trash). Assetflips are bad. Because there was 0 effort and those devs just want easy money while being lazy. There is no excuse for assetflips. What you and i both probably agree on that games that have direction, coherent art style and functional gameplay the dev either coded or applied is good no matter if assets are bought, free or made in-house. Phasmophobia for example at least was (might still be) close to 100% just bought and free assets and people love that game. One would have to be either miseducated about the term or a hater to call that game assetflip. I believe there also was a super popular AAA zombie game that only used bought assets (was it Deadfloor 2? it was something equally popular to that). So just using free/bought assets doesn't make an asset flip. It is not what devs use then - it is about how they are used.

[@KummoDeveloper]

Ah.. you kept using the term later in the video as well. No, Unicycle Pizzatime and Magic girls are not assetflips. Neither of them are (maybe the state of the horror game showed in trailer currently could count as one but what i have understood from your other comments about the game the endproduct does not sound like it is going to be shipped as assetflip). You have created the levels instead of using some demolevel. You have added and tweaked mechanics that weren't there before. Assetflips don't put that much effort into their "game". They just use already existing demo (either one from engine or one that came with the assetpack), slap some things together and ship it. All of your current and announced games are far from assetflips.

[@AnEmortalKid]

Time to rename the studio to Fight Me Games and embrace the dark side !

[@ROFLWOOT]

I think you need to separate people not liking the game, and not liking you and the studio. Hardly any of the comments were attacking you personally, your community is offering their opinion on what is put in front of them and they're allowed to have their opinion. Personally I feel that the feedback is better that it's so clear in it's sentiment and you can make changes accordingly. I, along with probably 99% of the commenters here, are long time watchers from the community who actually _do_ want you to do well. Try and bear in mind that negative feedback about the game is not a personal attack on you.

[@vast634]

Your "Overtime Anomaly" looks visually more coherent than your anime girl game. Even If this office scene is an asset pack, it came from an artist who knows what he is doing. The Anime Girl game however looks all over the place, and should receive a lot more work on lighting, post processing and color grading.

[@arcadeheroes1]

First impressions matter. If you release a trailer, make sure it's a good one. It's what you are going to be judged on. I remember you guys made a Art Style Tier List video. Where you had the anime style in one of the upper tiers, so you know expectations are very high when it comes to anime art. Both the game and the trailer looked very rushed tbh.

[@mandisaw]

That great video was with their former art intern (Alexandra?). They really need an artist on the team full or part-time, or learn to wear that hat. Ironically, I think Marnix said the reason they didn't do any more vids with her was because of horrible comments from d*cks online 🤮

[@alexx4450]

Visuals draw the players to it, gameplay keep them and they hype it up for the other potential players. That's why visual appeal is important, it's an instant hook 90% of the time.

[@dakotah4866]

That's not how it was when I was little. Long as it was a decent story if it was a story-driven game I could care less about the visuals.

[@alexx4450]

@@dakotah4866 I agree, but in this day and age average attention spawn is so short, if the viewer is not drawn to your game instantly, most of the time they will just keep on scrolling. Tho as you say, people who are in story-driven games have more attention to stick I guess.

[@dakotah4866]

@@alexx4450 I just don't want people primarily engagement to be dopamine responses to all pretty colors and stuff.

[@thegrinningfrog]

I'm a full-time tabletop game creator and I watch your channel to pick up tips for game development and promotion. I love your open honesty and passion for games. Im sorry to say but having watched the trailer for the game I was shocked to find it didn't seem to follow any of the principles that you guys have been teaching us. The music was jarring and distracting, the visual cuts seemed to jump from one scene to another scene almost identical in nature (so it didn't show me new game elements) and I had zero sense of story and direction. Honestly, my main reaction was 'What the hell am I watching?' It was only upon reading the comments that I had a sense that maybe I could level up my character and there were power ups. As I said, I'm a tabletop game producer so I watch for slightly different reasons and I don't even know what an 'asset flip' is. (I'm guessing it's buying premade art pieces and recycling them). What I do know is the trailer did not teach me about the game, it didn't engage me and was visually, and auditoraly confusing. As I'm pretty sure you've said in other videos, everyone makes mistakes. The key is to learn from them. Keep the faith and keep going. Your audience and those feeding back want you to succeed.

[@captainawesome2226]

Just add a stupid level of juice and make it a meme shooter. Really over the top stuff.

[@haruruben]

The anime game looks cheap, it was too early to announce with these visuals

[@l.a.w.6494]

But like they said there's two audiences some of us have been watching them work on so we knew it wasn't done.

[@JeromeMillion]

​@@l.a.w.6494 but that's definitely an issue and a mistake on their part. The communication isn't clear. I don't have time to watch the livestreams so I have no clue what's happening, didn't even realise Guild Architects was cancelled to be honest. The communication should definitely have been more efficient on that one. Like "concept trailer" or something similar.

[@plokky8052]

Honestly I'm surprised at how surprised you seem to be at the reception. The game still looks very unfinished and it might have been good to keep it in the oven a bit longer before releasing a trailer. Getting defensive about the reaction is not going to do you any good. My takeaway from this situation. 1) Don't rush game dev. A tiny team probably shouldn't be juggling multiple projects at the same time. 2) Artists are important. There are glaring and easy to fix problems with the visuals that an artists would have spotted in a matter of seconds.

[@HarrisonVogl]

The difference between magical girl guardians being received well and not, is simply the visuals. Make it pretty and youll be suprised in the difference. If the mecahnics are good beneath then the visuals will bridge the gap you have at the moment. Some baked lighting will definetly help at the minimum which I did suggest on the stream. Best of luck on your product, overtime anomaly proably has been a better received because of the nice lighitng and assets - also it has a more interesting hook with the level of mystery, the trailer gives us a vibe of what the theme will be but not enough to know whats going on which makes the player want to buy and find out!

[@superbtelevision]

It was super key for me when you guys pointed out the visuals of my game needing an upgrade. It's obvious in hindsight but it can be hard to tell when you're so close to it. I think the problem here is more so the style not being sufficiently implemented than it is about the game looking like an asset flip. That said I see the difficulty of having an opportunity for a hype announcement and not wanting to pass it up even if the game isn't really ready

[@graydwarf22]

As a fellow game dev, I've been both intrigued by your pivot to cheap-cash-grab-games and also disgusted by it. A part of me doesn't want steam (the world) to be filled with more trash but another part of me would like to make some of that cash. I think it's ok to move forward with controversy especially if you're near 50/50. Just don't expect your peers to be glowing with respect at these early efforts. Better to have people talking (debating) about what you're doing vs crickets. If you keep sharing and keep learning, people will stay with you and you'll only improve (everything) with each release. Honestly, you're doing what we all should be doing but can't bring ourselves to do it. p.s. Do revel in the negative and try to have fun with it (your critics). Proving people right or wrong is way more powerful than trying to argue/debate with them on stream. Share the negative and what you will do (maybe nothing) but don't try to virtually fight us because you think we have the wrong opinions. p.p.s - all this negative feedback should result in a much better game/trailer that will save/help your game do so much better. Instead of feeling all the hate, you should be feeling all the love even though it's coming across as criticism. p.p.p.s. - Maybe post your video in a reddit anime and see what the reactions are. p.p.p.p.s - I'm not gonna stop hating on the "grabs" but I will be crazy mad/jealous/frustrated if you succeed at it and I fully expect you will. Cheers!

[@ramonpablito9154]

This is not a cheap cash grab. Apart from the assets there's a lot of complex mechanics that are in this game and since you said you're also a game dev yourself, im suprised you don't understand and/or respect this. Afaik there's no microtransactions or anything and the game is multiplayer which, as we all know, is one hell of a task for a small studio. I don't understand why you guys act like bite me games owes you something, they are extremely transparent and they said multiple times that they would focus more on tiny games moving forward. You have literally no reason to be disgusted or mad and you especially have no reason to be suprised

[@graydwarf22]

@ramonpablito9154 any other emotions or feelings you want to cross off my allowed list for me. It's just my hot take and it gets to be whatever I want. They post. We react. We all get something from it. They aren't pursuing games of passion or artistic expression which generally leaves you with cheap cash-grab games. If you read my full comment, you would see that I am conflicted with the approach. I do get it and respect the business side of it but don't respect the products its likely to produce.

[@farantariq3481]

I think the main issue with the magical girls game is the enemies. If everything else i kept the same but just the enemies design is improved and more variety is added it would look much better. At some points in the trailer the enemies basically filled almost the whole environment and there were 2 kinds of repeated enemies, that's what gave the impression of the game being cheap. If the enemy design and movement is polished a bit more variety of basic enemies is added the game would look much better

[@dxmissile]

devs and gamers react different, I doubt most gamers even know what asset flip means

[@eric81766]

I think (any online) comments can be overly harsh and if they hit just right they hurt more than they rationally ought to. I think this is one of the best videos I've watched from you because you handled your reaction so well while at the same time being clear about how you felt. Every time anyone puts work out there, there's the possibility of a negative audience reaction. I hope when I get a reaction like this to something I do, that I can handle it as well as you did. I took improv classes for several years, so I have some experience with personally doing something stupid on stage during a performance and having a live audience reaction. I think (hope) that that experience will help me - but online negative comments have a unique hurt to them. I suspect that's because we read them with our own voice so it sounds a bit like internal self-talk.

[@LorneDev]

I think that telling your audience how their wrong and explaining why the other game actually is more of an "asset flip" is the wrong approach. :P I just looked at the anomaly trailer, imo it looks better than the girl game. I'm not sure why the girl game looks cheaper though. Dont freak out, stay true to YOUR vision, and dont explain yourselves too much. It will be interesting to see how this one pans out

[@bazyt1]

Yo Marnix - (currently half way through the vid). I agree that the audience for the channel may well not match the audience who ultimately buys games, thats a very solid point. If MGG is a 1-2 month project, its not like you're putting 6 months-1 year into these, I don't think you should stress too much. You clearly make games you enjoy playing and creating. Overtime Anomaly does look good, in style + concept, great job for 10 days work! The graphics look consistent, even if you say its an asset flip (I think the 80s style office works well there). As for art direction of MGG, can you try applying **every** feature from Quibli shader so its full-on japanese comic/anime style? The current post-proc does let it down a lot, I think. Go all-in on the Quibli shader!! Maybe pull the camera out a little (+slightly lower fov?). It'll look totally different. Edit - I'm actually curious how this looks/plays in 3rd-person even... I feel like the enemies kinda have rather simple movement patterns, but that might the same for all these survivor-likes (?). The trailer doesn't show much variation overall, or doesn't communicate it well yet. Revealing a game early always has this risk, you have to trust your instincts though.

[@bitemegames]

We've used the Quibli shader for both Guild Architect and tried it for MGG. I think it's honestly not as good as advertised. -M

[@bazyt1]

@@bitemegames hmm, ok. (the asset store samples do look very cool, but prob *very* selectively made...). Maybe I just mean the general colour palette / shadowing / outlines post proc. I want it to look like a real cartoon :) You're prob tired of hearing it now, I'll let you play with it! All the best 👍

[@MyIndieGameDevJourney3818]

@@bitemegames ye i think most of it is becuse pepole see more of the result rathrer then the method well made ascet filps(ascet flips that look good and high efort visualy) get caled asset flips less oftain then game made with only orignal assets that look generic particularly if they dont look that good(oh and music desgin is very important too with the right framing and music you can make a bad game look good in a trailer)

[@bazyt1]

@@bitemegames have tweeted you a mock-up attempt.

[@mandisaw]

@@bazyt1 Turning on all the features of a shader is not a good substitute for art direction (also bad for performance). Screenshots & demos on the store are gonna reflect the skill and artistic sensibilities of the asset-creator. Someone who buys it will have to learn their way up to a level where they can use that tool effectively. It's not all that different from code assets, really.

[@Sonngohanda]

That's a problem with Anime as a content in general, people want really good looking stuff from it, to the levels of Genshin Impact. Could be interesting to read suggestions from women who like that stuff. Regardless, you can always do what IGA did in Bloodstained, and presented once in a "meme" video, he took the graphic criticism to heart, and improved the art style before launch. What I agree tho, is that a lot of people don't know how to send proper feedback without leaning in hate speech.

[@mandisaw]

Is MGG for women though? I'm not sure they've quite figured out the audience. Girls with guns is a whole anime subgenre, appeals a bit more to men, but most titles have women fans too. But then they need to study the genre expectations for that, and plan accordingly. Like there would probably need to be more character-customization (not just the weapons, but the clothes & mascots too), and we need some kind of story context - character profiles, why are they fighting, etc. And then use that to help sell the game. I didn't see too many hater comments on MGG when it first dropped, mostly dumb ppl saying "asset flip" when they really meant "poor art direction". Besides ppl who just hate anime (why watch then??) think this was more that the trailer was not really putting MGG's "best face forward" so to speak.

[@Sonngohanda]

​@@mandisawI thought that, because we all know this magical girl subgenre targeted girls back in the day, and I guess that they must have some sort of nostalgia, so they could easily be a target audience like men I mentioned because of the implications of the game title, "Magical Girls", and the cute content and ui in the game. So I guess they could be a good source of feedback, especially for expectations. But as you said the devs would need to figure things out, and design accordingly. They could look into inspiration a bit from Madoka, or the Star Guardians from LoL, in case they're leaning into add Lore as you suggested. There's a lot to explore there.

[@mandisaw]

@@Sonngohanda Mahou shoujo - Magical Girls - is a massive cross-genre "theme". There are boys' adventure versions, girls' cutesy versions, serious or sexy ones for adults, etc. The juggernaut franchise that is PreCure has a "4-quadrant" fanbase, of all of the above, and is very much active (new series every year or so). Girls-with-Guns is its own theme, which can be magical, sci-fi, or mundane, and appeal to girls, boys, men, or women. There are even mecha variants (Mai-HiME and Magic Knights Rayearth are classics). Madoka Magica was a deconstruction that became popular outside the genre, kind of like how more people know Evangelion now than Gundam, even though Eva was "commenting on" Gundam tropes. Not sure if you can make a deconstruction like that without understanding the "normal" thing it's based on... The BiteMe guys could really tap into something big here, no matter what angle they go for. Lycoris Recoil was a pretty popular girls-with-guns hit only a couple years ago. But they would have to really step up their game (pun intended 😅).

[@Sonngohanda]

@@mandisaw Thanks for the writing and educating myself in the current status of that, I liked that the subgenre evolved and can target a wide audience these days. I didn't know about that game, for what I've seen majority of games inspired in that these days are visual novels, or gacha games which I'm really not interested that much. I feel like there were more variety of games in the PS1/Snes era such as The sailor moon rpgs / beat em ups, or similar games like Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure. So as you said, if the devs planned this thing well, they'd have something big here. We'll have to see what ends coming out of this though. Is hard to see criticism of something that has been a passion project of sort, and it could affect the devs' original vision, in an attempt to fit players expectations

[@mandisaw]

@Sonngohanda No worries, it's a deep rabbit hole :) They do still make magical girl games, but for mobile and Nintendo mostly. Some gacha, but some puzzle or casual games. That Darling Nikki dress-up game franchise that prints money launched some kind of MMO-like, Infinity Nikki, that seems to have launched well. No guns tho, more of an adventure and character-building game. The super popular girls-with-guns games now would all be gacha, out of either Korea (Nikke) or China (Honkai Star Rail, from the Genshin folks). But those are kind of NSFW-leaning, and they said they don't wanna go that route. Japan tends to avoid guns in their games for cultural reasons. The fans there could be hungry for something like this, if it can go for an angle different from what the Chinese & Korean games do.

[@JeromeMillion]

I would definitely say that the other game kinda had a vision and I really enjoyed the trailer, the mystery behind it, it was kinda telling a story and had some cool concepts. Reporting anomalies via the phone etc, seeing you had various stuff to report, so potentially teasing what kind of stuff could happen in the game. It looks like it has something going on and is coherent visually. You took an asset and made something interesting out of it. The Magical Girls one, it's definitely more an issue with the coherence of everything and the fact that the trailer kinda shows only "more of the same" like, glancing over it you basically see a classic Vampire Survivor game with assets that don't match. If people didn't watch all your videos and streams they might not understand what you are trying to achieve or how far in development this project is. Had it been in a more "devlog" style, maybe just the trailer with an intro saying that this was early development etc, people would have given it a chance I think.

[@mandisaw]

@BiteMe Y'all asked for "how tf do we learn art direction", here's a great 30m indie talk from this summer's Digital Dragons - How to Consciously Choose an Art Style to Fit Your Game. I must say, 3D Anime style is super-hard mode, and absolutely requires a technical artist, which you guys just don't have in the team. It's not just unifying the shader and textures (tho that helped a lot!). Stylized Station had a 15min video couple yrs ago diving into the Mihoyo team's artistic & technical workflow - Why Genshin Impact is an Artistic and Technical Masterpiece. Not saying you should seek Genshin-level, but at least it might help you with a "big picture" understanding of how that style is accomplished in Unity, and then you can figure out what an indie approach that works for you would be. There are also a lot of good resources in Japanese on creating anime aesthetic in games (Korean & Chinese too). If you google the topic with the language-filter off, you'll get better results than in English-only (or German, French, etc). CGWorld had an amazing article with the Fire Emblem Engage team last November breaking down how they switched from their older in-house engine to Unity, with lots of screenshots and tech explanations of how their shaders and animations worked. The Google translate tripped over some technical terms, but it's still readable, esp if you have someone to sanity-check. Good luck! I don't know if MGG is a few-months dev-time game, just because the artstyle and gamefeel are likely to be a lot harder to get right than the gameplay. Sometimes it's just like that. Hopefully the Office Space game can bring in quick cash - got the start of a spooky story there 😅 Happy Holidays!

[@markhennessy3690]

Execution trumps opinions. It’s hard to both listen to feedback and also not let the hate get to you. But try to stay true to your vision and believe in it. It’s far better than wavering at the first setback. Stay focused and channel your energy to make a great game. You got this!

[@AdmiralSamStarcraft]

“Asset flip” is just a derogatory term when it looks like unrelated assets of different styles come together and aren’t unified because it gives the impression of the indie slop on steam. But in reality it has nothing to do with actually using only assets if they look cohesive, and non devs won’t know they came from an asset. Anime art is definitely one of the most challenging styles to do in 3D without advanced shader tricks and tech art because it’s meant to be 2D.

[@richardbloemenkamp8532]

Probably it has more to do with the 'magical girl' idea. Mindless 'cute' anime girls with weapons ticks many doubtful boxes especially when the game is mostly made by a group of young west-European men. It is clear that the art/visuals are very far from what BiteMe employees would draw given only a blank sheet of paper. Maybe you can improve by adding some male player characters and making the magical girls less stereotypical and giving them a bit more personality. For Unicycle pizza and Overtime anomaly it seems much more believable that the concept and art/visuals come from you even if you bought a lot as asset. BTW -All the discussion about shaders or colors or bought assets or UI etcetera, is probably just secondary because people don't know how to convey the message about the somewhat doubtful 'magical girl' shooter idea. -Also note that people are much more likely to give a negative reaction after some other have done the same. In reactions people are copying each other a lot. -This is a great learning moment, that most of us will forget pretty soon. don't worry.

[@StephenHarperRaptagon]

If his grandma is reading, they got this. We just need to let them cook

[@marsonfire6791]

For this channel's audience, this is probably not a game that will resonate with people. Id never play the game just because of the anime visuals. I think for steam and other people though, it's a good idea and worth making

[@AdmiralSamStarcraft]

I will say another factor to consider how art style genre affects the audience appeal, anime style will skew players to care more about art style than gameplay (I’ve played plenty of super pretty anime games with mediocre or bad gameplay and enjoyed them). It might be easier to go with something like low poly (but this still needs some style consistency) or realistic or pixel.

[@alexleonardkrea]

I appreciate you sharing this situation. It is fascinating (from an outside perspective). I imagine that your audience being largely hobbyist devs make interesting situations like this confounding. There is also the one-sided conversation problem as well. I imagine your audience would be better at constructive criticism in a live setting with give and take. Makes me want an audience to leverage for what do you like/hate videos. (Also probably very unique here)

[@humman007]

Two approaches prevail in indie games; creating nice, consistent graphics to look good on the trailer with average gameplay or betting on complex mechanics and unique idea with inferior graphics. If it's poor in both categories, there can be problems with marketing and if it's still short, it won't succeed without a huge amount of luck.

[@joc_a.b]

I'm here to learn with you, not to tell you what games to make. Keep on it, and keep talking about the experience, that's why I'm here for!

[@iehorizon]

The thing is most studios, over time of their existance, tend to specialize in certain genres. For example Creative Assembly is great at real time strategy games but falls flat when trying to do something outside their strategy-focused skillset. I think you are at the point in your career where you are still trying out different genres and styles to find what you are good at. Yeah, it's hard without funding and pretty risky for your personal lifes but failures are inevitable and you just have to survive long enough. P.S. Personally, I think you, as a studio, would do best at making deep and complex strategy games. Maybe you should try making some turn-based tactics game with mythology theme?

[@furiousfurfur]

I think there is a large disconnect between what devs call asset flips and what players call asset flips. And even in those groups asset flips mean different things. For me for many years an asset flip was publishing a project from an asset with minimal work and calling it your own. For example, those horror games using the same house asset. But there were games that used the asset but spent time on the mechanics and story and visuals and even more, and those aren’t seen as asset flips even though they used the same base assets.

[@SuperDutchrutter]

Magical girl gardens, the bullets look weak in the trailer even when seemingly upgraded. A little juice there maybe. Wasn’t crazy about the explosion/impact effects-but the gameplay and environments seem fun (twin stick shooter in a nice environment)

[@barneylegendary1]

Just went to watch trailer and checkout game page, keep up the good work! I see the vision, i think you guys can pull it off :)

[@seelengeier317]

All the feedback you received is valuable. I feel like most people "hating" on you or the games are either mad because you did not follow your own advices or do not like the game style/mood. Read them, study them and take notes, but don't hate them for stating their opinions. You are doing well and I hope you can take more positive lessons from these feedbacks. As for your magical girl trailer, you should have focused a lot more on the gameplay if you think that is what should have convinced your audience. The anomaly trailer focused on the mood and setting which is most of the game you want to see in such a psychological horror game. A survivor game needs solid mechanics, settings and characters which have not been showcased well in that trailer. Asset flips are not bad, but they are badly received if they feel and look like asset flips. If the mechanics or the mood distract from that, it's working. Your magical girl game can be great, but it still looks very much like an asset flip and the gameplay looked very generic. You should have put in some more work in making the assets fit together and also show some more gameplay mechanics that make it stand out. I have my fingers crossed for all your projects :) good luck

[@falseknight4371]

At least u honest bro which mean u can gain my respect back again. Your art looks art flippy, period. The enemies look meh when attacking. The game juice when hitting enemies feels meh. It's like eating ramen thats been sit out for 10 hours. Your art needs a rehaul or postprocessing somehow.

[@bambamsbubble5249]

love the response, dont back down because too be honest the viewers dont buy the game most of the time

[@Alelitox]

this is one of those moments where the customer is not right. i believe you guys are very public with things being work in progress and about using assets from the store to speed development. i dont think comparing your games is a good idea, but i understand you want to prove a point and thats valid. As a game dev community is kinda sad that the criticism looks like bomb reviews to a company they dont like, and its sadder when you showed the trailed in middle of a community stream showing other indie games. i feel like apologizing for other people and thats like crazy. sorry to anyone that read all this, hope you have a nice day.

[@IAMAICreation]

Been a fan of your channel for a while now. I really enjoy you guys sharing the indie dev experience from inside the eye of the storm. It's you who's doing the work so make whatever the f*ck you want. No apologies necessary. Stay focused and don't obsess over the market. As long as you care what others think others will own you. Just make what you enjoy and would like to play yourself. Visuals get attention but the bottom line is gameplay. I've played plenty of gorgeous games that were shit and awesome games that weren't so pretty. Players come back to devs who makes games they enjoy. Streamline and don't spread yourselves to thin. Your best work don't come when you're mind is jumping around everywhere and you're burnt out. Walk the walk guys. Stay awesome! :)

[@dakotah4866]

I wouldn't worry about the split of audience because one is a audience for buying all the other one is the audience for videos it's the way I see it.

[@itay7884]

I think the design problem with Magical Girl Guardians is that once you play as an anime girl you lose all mainstream shooter, survivorlike players, and the second you put a gun in her hand you lose all the players who like playing cute colorful games (mostly cozy players) so the ideal player for this type of game is very very niche (considering that players who play small indie games like those games are already super niche) That's one man's opinion anyway, wish you luck!

[@dawee6196]

so they think we're all wrong. got it

[@barter_hat]

I wish I were better at blender. I’d make art for you pro bono.

[@Meowzors]

I'm not gonna lie, when I first saw the trailer, I thought your channel got hacked. I think this just tells you how stigmatizing indie anime looking games are on steam. If Magical Girl Guardians didn't look anime, I wouldn't have associated it with those random hentai anime asset flip games. Even if your other games are technically more asset flippy, It's just the anime girl models that make it feel cheaper than it is. That first impression alone made me look past the unique hook of the gameplay... I'd definitely play it if there was a demo.

[@Badaboombadaboombaby]

I really respect you, and I think that any of your work does not represent your value as an artist or game designer. While your work represents your level of current skill, I don’t think that you deserve harshness or Mean comments! you are growing as an artist, and it’s a great journey to follow. Don’t get down on yourself, just keep encouraging yourself to get back up when you feel like you fallen down. I personally still like the trailer, and I’m excited to get the game. I’m sure the people in the common section have helpful and constructive criticism, but definitely ignore people who are just overly negative, or targeting you personally instead of giving you constructive criticism. I think that if it ever becomes difficult to take peoples constructive criticism, it’s better to take care of your emotional state, then to push out or possibly rush out more work to get criticized. Your mental health should come first, because it is your game and your life, and most of your commentors have good intentions, trying to help you improve your game, but if it ever feels like too much, it’s better to just walk away and take a break, and just live your life a little bit. Sometimes we can get caught up in our work

[@nahueluchaolmedo5373]

Hey man, I'll give my 2 cents about MGG. About the aesthetic: it may came as asset flip to some people as it looks so "basic", not looking bad but standard. Maybe step up your palette game: don't tint the things as they really are, why the grass is green? why the sky is blue? Maybe you could use a more autumn-ish palette with some purples (now it looks like the mmo Ragnarok from 2001). Also you need a stronger shader work. Maybe some volumetric fog to give more density? Also the hair of the guardians should have physics. About the mechanics my opinion is that it shouldn't be an autoshooter, actually to shoot it's a pretty fun mechanic, but even if it is the shoot should feel stronger, (and maybe even more as an autoshooter) see the machine gun in helldivers, maybe some work with lighting, slight camera shake, sound, or something like that, it looks kind of flimsy rn. Same with getting wound, the screen is not giving the right amount of feedback. Maybe a dash mechanic and some kind of granade launcher would help it to look more dynamic and varied? Always rooting for you guys, hope you find the way to make it work!!

[@MrKingJavo]

I think you guys are wasting alot of time on things that don’t convert to sales. I think you should either be a KZbinr or a gamedev. Not both. Waste of time. Quick game jam games won’t get you anywhere either imho. If you want to make it as a game dev, then I believe you need to make something people want to play and that doesn’t happen quickly. It takes a long time to do so. I know you guys don’t have a lot of money but competing as game devs is no easy task. You guys are just chasing your tails. I’m a fellow game dev btw.

[@channyh.221B]

I thought this youtube channel is not for converting games to sales. This is not what this channel is for, it's for sharing their experience and being very open about it (much appreciated) and instead of starting with that one big game, starting with a few smaller games, makes suddenly so much more sense. Crafting your skills till you can do that one big dream project. Well, that is my point of view of this channel, but I could be wrong too.

[@TheAndrejP]

noooooov I hope your grandma is happy now:)

[@schouffy]

Hey, Hope you didn't take the wrong way what i said about a/b testing, it wasnt negative or anything, i even think it's a smart way of evaluating interest without commiting too much. Whatever you do best of luck and thanks for the content !

[@fmtris8064]

Selestia, Kikyo, Rindo and Swarm game mode. It looks too similar to things I already know, therefore feels overly derivative. If it FEELS overly derivative, it is gonna get disliked because folks connect derivative things to plagirasm, which is bad.

[@lando6583]

Please don't listen to the comments on KZbin when making business decisions. If the game is fun, it should do ok.

[@Gothicpolar]

That's ridiculous if they are coming from people that you know, like that Tale dude.. Like trolls and those people who only play AAA games etc will always be there and whine but if they are a part of your community, at least give constructive criticism and not that shit.

[@winner_joiner]

Currently I'm very busy so I missed the awards, the mgg trailer, but NOW I saw it(atleast the trailer). well yes it's no Halo3 Trailer, but for what I saw in the Streams, It looks more or less as expected. Maybe it was not 100% up to par to the fast Trailer Roast fixes, but I'm bias since I'm not so the kawaii girly type. :) The second Trailer reminded me abit of a game you guys roasted I think, and yes this type of game would be more up my ally. I any case I don't see the drama. Just wanted to write before I forget (am only on min 15). AND finally I think Terms like asset flip and Slop-Games are throw around a lot, but 99% of games could be grouped in one of those groups, with other words, let the haters hate.

[@1jerrycamacho497]

@BiteMeGames: You know I've noticed a lot of people that comment negatively are people that complain because they think they know everything. They don't, and probably haven't even made a game. Its not that their opinions SHOULDN'T matter but that their opinions DON'T matter. Unless they're more successful(and i doubt a more successful person would say those things), they are just spoiled children that hate anything that isn't done specifically to their wants. Let'm go suck on lemons and peel some onions for all i care... ha! there's your next game idea😛

[@juyas6381]

I sadly didnt have the time right now to watch it till the end, but two things that caught my attention and that werent quite mentioned until like half of the video: First of all, people honestly want to see you succeed in what your doing, the believe in your success. So they expect some sort of change now and then, mostly improving on what you did before. After a couple of game titles, they somewhat want or probably want things to be drastically better than your first game. My assumption for that guardian game would be, that some of them feel betrayed by it. It looks not any better than games you did before, it might also seem dull, but to top that off, you keep comparing it - that would be my second point I wanna make - to overtime anomaly, which people seem to like. But instead ok capitalizing on this urge of people to play it, you seem to keep justifying the unwanted guardian game. Which is, ofc, absolutely fine, but if you wanna deliver a game, that people love to play, you might wanna listen to their wished, at least a bit and especially on that fundamental basis. You can make something better by arguing how much worse another thing is. What you can learn from that is: doesn't matter sometimes, if the trailer is just a hour filmed in a demo scene - if people understand and like the idea, it's perfect. Hope that helped some, enjoy your day and enjoy your journey ❤

[@TheDdvd1]

Ah .. people are reactionary .. and when they explode like they did, they cant row back and have to double down on heir position. Fair play that you are coming out and addressing it head on and bring very open about what happened. Its down to everyone else now ... not you or the team ... to accept or reject what you have said and make their own decisions on whether to stay or go. Now second point .. are you selling your game to your community or are you selling to a market or sector. Communities are amazing, but sometimes they feel that they own your creative process and if it isn't for them you are a bad dev. What can explode in the community is often not reflective of the wider market. All the best guys.

[@Nubian_King_RNM]

If only passion put bread on the table, doing what works for your studios long-term success far outweighs the needs of the moment make games that get you to your goal y'all ain't running a charity or a goodwill organisation.

[@Erocol]

ı think main issue on anime game looks like you try fast money , cash grab. but horror game looks like more proper normal horror game not look like a cash grab game to me.

[@semicolon5585]

Magical Girl Guardians, just check the game HoloCure (anime/vtuber and survivor-game) to see what an anime artstyle is all about. Or even better, check Genshin Impact's 3D. As someone who watches anime religiously and plays anime games like BanG Dream! Girls Band Party, the MGG art style should improve.

[@NickCoyour]

Honestly, I should have known by your company name that you are kind of jerks. You cuss too much, you make fun of your audience too much, you are full of yourself as well. I unsubbed just now.

[@hendazzler]

Fun vid, more drama plz

[@duncanharris-l1b]

Sounds like a total train wreck. Suck it up and fix what is busted and get the train back on tracks. New horizons await!

[@paluxyl.8682]

I don't get the hate, normal gamers don't care or even know the term "asset flip". I think all the mean comments come from envy people.

[@smokelingers]

I don't know where you get the idea that gamers don't know or care about the term "asset flip", because a fair number of gaming content creators with huge followings have used this term numerous times. I want to say it was especially popularized during Covid lockdown. It's definitely well-known among any gamers that have tuned into the "Steam dumpster diving" style of gaming content, and content focused on trying to find hidden gems within a genre among new and not yet popular releases.

[@paluxyl.8682]

@@smokelingers I'm a game dev too, most of the people arround me don't know about it (this way it's possible to test their reaction on many things and get neutral answers). Many know that game engines exists, but they got no idea that everybody can use them to make own games and that's possible buy or find assets. A "gamer" is for me every person who plays games, no matter of age, gender or games they play ... that means most of them doesn't even know the word "asset" and almost no one what an asset flip is. Believe it or not, but I got friends who play since over 20 years games and they got no idea what Unreal or Unity are. Most people who consume game development content are game devs or interested in it, that's just a extremly small number who knows most of those terms. "Real gamers" only care if a game is good or not, nothing more and nothing less. Worst thing that can happen is, a game dev (or studio) makes all 3d models and animations self, and very smart people call them asset flips.

[@smokelingers]

@@paluxyl.8682 Okay I think I understand what you mean by "normal gamers" now. The majority who just play the popular stuff with the pretty graphics and massive marketing campaigns. But normal gamers like those probably won't see or buy this game, they'll save their money for triple A games like GTA6, Witcher 4, or even that Game of Thrones game that was recently announced because they value brand names and high fidelity and general popularity and stuff. Why should we think about those gamers when advertizing a cute anime girls survivors-like that's gameplay-focused and hasn't got a commissioned artist for trailer content? Many of them won't even know what a survivors-like is so they'll just see not pretty graphics (self-admitted), not good trailer (self-admitted), and click off. The ones leaving comments are either people who already follow for the game dev content, or they found the trailer because they're digging through Steam to find specific niches, like I mentioned before, or both. I'm developing games as well, but I heard the term "asset flip" from a very popular gaming KZbinr. I just want to clarify, I wouldn't say this game is an asset flip, because it isn't one, but many of the negative things that people associate with asset flips are in that trailer.

[@duncanharris-l1b]

Come on Marnix, you guys love talking big and taking shots at other games and then you do something similar? What did you expect from your audience when they see the faker? [bowie]

[@l.a.w.6494]

I'm 34 in January lol

[@mfassett]

The good game developers spend their time making their games better, not making youtube videos. Along that line, you mention in the video that your audience for youtube is not the same audience as your games. Makes me think you should choose one or the other, since trying to build two audiences at the same time results in more work and slower growth for both of them. Most of the game dev youtubers I watch don't actually make games on the regular. They make youtube videos, or they sell game dev courses instead of games, or they make videos in between making games.

[@GGeloRob]

Just don't rush so much?

[@AnEmortalKid]

I think you’re really underselling at 20 bucks man. You could at least be charging 35.

[@holacabeza]

Just add some Fountain Girls and you're all set fam 🧖‍♂️