Black, Greek & Queer? The Gender Debate Within Historically Black Fraternities & Sororities!

On November 11, 2022, Marc Lamont Hill moderated a thought-provoking discussion on gender identity within historically Black fraternities and sororities, featuring guests Trinice McNally and Brock Brenton on theGrio. In this engaging conversation, they delve into whether the Divine 9, a collective term for the nine historically African American fraternities and sororities, also referred to as Black Greek Letter Organizations, truly provides a safe space for individuals of all gender identities or if it remains exclusive to cis-gendered individuals.
Trinice McNally is the Founding Director of the Center for Diversity, Inclusion & Multicultural Affairs at the University of the District of Columbia. McNally is a member of Delta Sigma Theta, Inc. Brenton Brock is a Diversity, Inclusion, & Multicultural Affairs Specialist at The University of the District of Columbia, and a member of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Inc.
McNally and Brenton offer diverse perspectives on the topic, sparking crucial dialogue about inclusivity and representation within these esteemed traditions.
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#divine9 #panhell #aka #aphia #zetaphibeta #kappaalphapsi #omegapsiphi #deltasigmatheta #mlh #marclamonthill

[@StacieJoyner]

I agree transgender should not force themselves on people. Start your own organizations

[@pleasure5585]

I agree !!!!

[@malikamobley]

I am a black transfeminine student who went to an HBCU and I’m inclined to agree with the Que. My mom and my sister are AKAs, and I always saw joining a sorority as the ultimate sign that I “made it” as a girl. I soon learned that I would have to inherit a history of gender assimilation, colorism, and respectability that was never designed for people like me to take part in. Rather than inherit the legacy of gender conformity, I want a space of community for queer people designed to incorporate our attitudes toward the gender binary. Maybe a queer house is D9 is called for. Or perhaps outside of it. Either way, there’s more work to be done.

[@user-bx1bj4of7b]

💯👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@AeonEsq88]

You ate this!!!!

[@reneestevens7337]

Other women arent here to validate that you made it as a girl. Thats a very masculine way of thinking.

[@malikamobley]

@@reneestevens7337 which is why i don’t care about making it as a girl, hence the entire reason i made the post. society can’t/won’t define my gender on my behalf. i have a right to claim any gender, or even no gender at all. i don’t care about society’s gender. it is a system, like the divine 9, that doesn’t serve me.

[@think_foryourself]

​@@reneestevens7337 this....

[@Justinsayswhat]

Atp create the space you want to be in. We (as queer people) cant force people to accept and or include us.

[@ThisIsWar_B1_FBA_ADOS]

Women in general should do the same. The Boy Scouts were forced to include girls. It’s disgusting.

[@michaelsparks625]

Fraternities are for men and sororities are for women period 06!

[@robertc9155]

🤙🏾🤙🏾

[@blackNproud365]

I agree my D9 brother there is no gray area when it comes to this 🤘🏽

[@DavidFagan1914]

🤘🏿

[@geehud2565]

Say it louder for the people in the back!

[@TheeBrandonCarter211]

That wasn’t the issue being discussed 😂

[@mekemeke8497]

I hate when people say organizations are rooted in homophobia. Many of these organizations were established prior to the word homophobia.

[@lecuyerdooley1084]

Just because the word did not exist does not mean the concept didn't. It's just like racism or sexism or any of these terms. People have been hating and discriminating since the Cain and Abel days. You don't need a vocabulary word to name your nonsense -- bad actors are gonna act badly.

[@adewaleaderoloye1161]

You cannot include everyone in everything or else it ends up being nothing.

[@SmartDave60]

That’s not the goal here tho’.

[@cd5139]

We could really use a little bit less separation amongst black people

[@JasonPattersonTruMuseMedia]

That ain't it...that's the easy way out.

[@CoachB.Hudson]

@@cd5139 naw the black community needs a clear separation on a few fronts .

[@CoachB.Hudson]

You all can’t make an oath to God and do this at the same time

[@CapricornRunner]

Fantastic discussion! Great point concerning tolerance vs inclusion. Plus, I learned a new word. Effemphobia/Effeminophobia

[@daddygrace253]

I have met many gay and DL NUPES over the years. When I was in undergraduate school at Morgan State University in the mid 70's, most the the Kappas on the yard were feminine. In those days, being gay was very taboo but years later, several of these Kappas came out as gay and several died of AIDS. However, of all the Divine 9 organizations, I have met more gay men of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. I remember years ago in the early 90's when Washington, D.C. started the Black Gay Pride, I met and saw so many gay Alphas and some wearing paraphernalia. Wanda Sykes the lesbian is a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. pledging at Hampton University.

[@ManyGods]

Sexual identity should never outweigh your gender

[@Pou1gie1]

They are interconnected, like race and class

[@troybody6662]

@@Pou1gie1 I was Black before I was born. I did not have a choice in which color I wanted. Your sexuality is determined by your thoughts. If you say that light skinned women are sexy then you will get erect over light skinned women. If you say dark skinned women are ugly then you won't. But, if you are in Africa where racism is not as strong toward dark skinned people then you will find dark skinned women beautiful.

[@ajones4628]

Sorry but no sexuality isn’t a “choice” of what thoughts you have. I bet you couldn’t think yourself into having relations with a man could you? MOST people who are attracted to women (or men) may have a preference or inclination to a certain shade but have the ability to be aroused and attracted to anyone thats attractive regardless of skin tone. The same way a lot of bisexual men and woman are inclined to one gender over the other but can be attracted to either one sexually and romantically. Sexual orientation is determined from birth but obviously most children don’t have any sexual knowledge or development so they aren’t conscious of their sexuality until their teenage to 20s. The same way no one chose to be a certain race, no one chose to be gay bisexual etc. and be hated on. Especially if you’re black on top of that…that’s a world of hurt no one chooses. The difference is race cannot be masked it’s plain as day. Sexuality isn’t physical and can be masked and faked.

[@therichardgravesgroup4747]

If you do not want to represent manhood as an Omega, a Kappa, or as a Alpha does. Do not JOIN. Or, join an organization that represents manhood as YOU want . Not complicated.

[@can72287]

Right! They suggest that it’s their right to join the group. Or that it’s required. When it’s neither. And they are allowed to have their standards as long as it’s in good taste, ie no “paper bag test” but yes to certain types of morality and or political “tests”.

[@PHHussler]

Why is homosexualality being so aggressively pushed on us?

[@JayTWrites]

It’s always existed among us. It’s just being acknowledged more. There is a difference because in the same breath we could also say heterosexuality was being pushed upon us aggressively because it’s all that was depicted. I’d challenged you to step outside of yourself and see it for the truth and not out of misunderstanding. Truth is gay and queer people have always existed and our wanting to be acknowledged for who we are is not an agenda.

[@Operator-Six]

@@JayTWrites buck broken by they slave masta’s it’s always pushed on us

[@harmony323]

This was excellent. Great guests!

[@marquellmartin1287]

Wow, this new world we are in might be our downfall.

[@ww8407]

Gender identity is our downfall? Not capitalism, terrorism, racism, etc? Hmmm

[@michaelsmith6404]

How do this fight white supremacy

[@brianbrown6806]

Black folks are so defeated we no longer even know if we male or female

[@brianbrown6806]

Doesn’t

[@slickandslaycious6579]

By strengthening the black community We’ll see how many people will say it doesn’t help when we’re talking about access to black community for black cis men and women

[@spacesandplacesoutthere]

It doesn't on the contrary its an extension of it

[@Oshun_KC]

Read. Study. Decolonize your mind.

[@courylanders4142]

The Gay and African American struggle are two different situations. I've seen people go from Man have surgery to a Women. To surgery back to a man. That's the reality of trans people. I can't go from black to white to black. Race and gender are completely different.

[@SunlightsHorizon]

1. Whether someone has gender affirming surgery or not has nothing to do with if someone is trans or not. Those are for people who have body dysphoria and is a paid medical producer covered by insurance and isn’t relevant to this conversation. 2. There are black queer people. If you’re for black people, you’re for ALL black people. We thrive when ALL black people are included.

[@lecuyerdooley1084]

How are these struggles different for gay black people? When I go out, I'm black AND gay. I don't get to choose which one people see -- they see both because both are in me. Race isn't a primary identity. Nobody says "I'm more black than I am a man or more than I'm heterosexual." You are equally those things. But some black folks unreasonably expect black LGBTQ brothas and sistas to prioritize their race over their gender / sexuality, even though they don't do the same. It's insane.

[@troybody6662]

@@SunlightsHorizon homosexuals are only 3% of the population. Yes. We are all people, but the gay agenda is to decrease the population. It overpowers the Black voice. We are busy trying to tell you that we don't hate you rather than talking about an anti-hate crime bill for Black people or reparations.

[@troybody6662]

@@lecuyerdooley1084 it is not Black people but the Leftist Jews that's pushing the gay agenda. What is it you want? You can get married. You can rent. Why is it more important to point out your sexuality over mine? Blacks as a whole are fighting for an anti-hate crime bill. The gays got one. The Asians got one. So, it is the White cop that will shoot you because you're Black. They won't find out you are until after you're dead.

[@___sabr]

Discussing various social and gender topics have become a reality in todays society but still weird. - The bourgeois intellectuals in the Black Community never run out of topics that have nothing to do with the core concerns of Foundational Blacks. - Poverty, education, healthcare, systemic institutional racism, voting rights, etc. - Priorities of the above doesn't mean other issues effecting a small percentage should be neglected or addressed. - But when in the world are solutions being offered and implemented? - The Black bourgeois academics are in the forefront directing traffic on what topics they feel need to be addressed. (Damn the majority). But their income derives from the same Universities that are a pillar of the problem.

[@muskegontribune]

They serve their institutional masters

[@LiquidSoul06]

Dude , this one conversation is not the norm. Hill rarely have segments about fraternities. Unbunch your panties

[@muskegontribune]

@@LiquidSoul06 He is referring to the LGBTQ angle, he speaks on that a lot

[@britneycasey5688]

I'll never understand why people are so pressed to join these orgs to this degree. Y'all got to get to the point to where you stop putting these Greek orgs on a pedestal and create your own wave.

[@LITTLEROCK2517]

Hush

[@naturalmoments9319]

But why does the D9 have to be THAT inclusive? Why can't those who present different from their birth certificates create their own Greek-lettered organizations? Let straight people have their own space.

[@MIZRAIM1906]

Exactly…. Marc Lamont Hill said “should the D9 evolve” as though we have a problem. Homosexuality is to devolve when you really think about it but I expect that from a Kappa…

[@WenNRome]

You sound simple asf....you know how many gay people are in the D9?? Hell, it was founded by gay people.

[@bernardwylie9760]

You do have your own spaces. The question here is was this one of those spaces that only you were intended to have? When you are straight, you are afforded the luxury of assuming that it always is. When you are other, you learn very quickly what a privilege that actually was.

[@brianbrown6806]

@@MIZRAIM1906 😂

[@keithkennard6398]

Damm right . Fuck code switching . Unbelievable. We good as long as we don't ask don't tell . Smh

[@ColdIce99]

The charter of one of the organizations explicitly includes manly deeds. A fraternity is not for femininity. It’s about manhood. They need to go on with this.

[@liljay0687]

lol most of the dudes in them are DL though. MOST, not all.. don’t be obtuse.

[@VegSocialist]

When you decouple gender from sexuality then perhaps "manly" means courageous, protective, having integrity. Qualities of a good person. I think it's better to connect these qualities to good people than it is to connect them to people with penises.

[@VegSocialist]

When you decouple gender from sexuality then perhaps "manly" means courageous, protective, having integrity. Qualities of a good person. I think it's better to connect these qualities to good people than it is to connect them to people with penises.

[@WenNRome]

You missed the point of the whole discussion....go read a book

[@brianbrown6806]

@@liljay0687you gay dudes think that disagreement is some sort of vailed adherence to the lifestyle. No many of us really don’t agree or like the way you live your life. Why is it so important that we accept your perspectives but you simply cannot accept our perspectives?

[@SteStarI718]

Safety for all is the goal & it seems they both agree on that point. There's the question of how, but the conversations are a starting point. Great point about Sexual orientation vs Presentation. Re-watching to catch the term he used that sounded like a curse word.

[@lionellightbourne8058]

Questions for Black Greeks: ●Why chose the Academic identity of your slave masters over the Academic identities of your Four Fathers??? ●If white supremacy is rooted in "Greek Mythology" ie Colonialism why chose to be "Black Greeks???" ●Can a Dashiki be worn with a Toga???

[@LITTLEROCK2517]

Fake pro black

[@geehud2565]

Four Fathers?! 🤔

[@milespage8955]

You do know the Blacks are the forefathers of Greek culture, Greek mythology, Greek math, The Entire Greek first settlers were Black Culture before they were Colonized just like the rest of the World.

[@Deafblk]

I am member of Sigma since 2023.. I know many fraternity members Divine 9 who is gay/ bi .. We keep low profile .. New generation are more open minded than older generation.. Actually, i am 64 ...

[@latasharogers5263]

This is an uncomfortable conversation, but an important one to have. 1908

[@lordlemond1350]

gender/sexual identity shouldn’t be at odds with cultural/racial but so much rapid and robust progress has been made for the LGBTQ+ folks, one cause has clearly been sidelined by the other, to the detriment of fixing many other issues within black America.

[@Antiomlettecoffee]

Umm I'm trans and I don't have labor protection around this country. I'm sorry but the queer and black struggle are fundamentally linked. This sort of thinking caused lots of damage. Also, again, the "progress" you see is visually and the legislation is usually performative

[@lordlemond1350]

@@Antiomlettecoffee There are federal labor protections against discrimination on basis of sexual orientation. Though, the black American experience is unlike any other and i think conversely, it’s the focus on other identities that’s caused harm to progress for what should be repaired to blackness first, then you can make a claim for your other identities but they aren’t linked imo. What’s best for FBA’s can be good for the other identities but not the other way around. Back to your point about labor protections.. i work with a very low demographic of black people but a significant block of gay+, when you hire and protect black people, the door is automatically open for your other identities but not fair to say the focus should be on your orientation ahead of the most inherent basis for discrimination in this country, your blackness.

[@Antiomlettecoffee]

@@lordlemond1350 look I won't argue that America isnt fundamentally anti-black, that's pretty well established. But what you have to understand is that our current understanding of sexuality and gender come from a European colonial sentiment. All it takes is a quick Google search to find non-european sexuality and gender in precolonial societies. This is to say, anti-blackness and anti-queerness come from the same white supremacist structure. As for labor protections, there are basic title 7 ones but not for other things. Also I mean we can't get basic Healthcare in many states not to mention the amount of harassment and hatred we face on a regular basis.

[@greggoryjohnson156]

This was an amazing conversation! I agree with the Delta about hope and evolution for our D9 organizations.

[@jamaab1]

I’m a Mason and no there aren’t any queer men in my lodge. They have a whole community. Why do they need to invade everything.

[@jgwphilly1969]

This becomes a problem. If we are going to pretend that there are no males and females then sororities or fraternities are pointless.

[@lecuyerdooley1084]

Sexuality and gender are not the same. If you can't grasp that, then ... stay out of the discussion until you can.

[@jgwphilly1969]

@@lecuyerdooley1084 I don't need your permission to comment on whatever I want. Fraternities and sororities are sex based. Males are in fraternities and females in sororities. If females can join fraternities and males sororities then they will just be coed Greek organizations. Which is fine. But it would eliminate the point of these organizations. It's not a matter of gender. A manly woman could be in a sororities. Most of what people say on this topic is idiotic.

[@lecuyerdooley1084]

@@jgwphilly1969 Gay men are men, so if they want to join a fraternity, what's the problem? Transmen identify as men. Gender is again performative. Have you seen a transman? Most would not know they are trans, so if they perform "manly" like any other man, what's the problem? What the hell are you worried about? Being a gatekeeper is a bad look for any black person. We should know what it feels like better given our history the harm of discrimination.

[@politicallyincorrect1283]

These conversations are becoming exhausting. These people are hellbent on invading ALL spaces and blurring the lines. Eventually we will be a society that allows adults who identify as kids to be in kid spaces. Slippery slope

[@llanasworld1705]

You sound very uneducated lol

[@politicallyincorrect1283]

@@llanasworld1705 the fact that you can’t articulate yourself beyond an insult shows your ignorance. Straight buffoonery

[@brianbrown6806]

100% correct

[@jlepeaux32]

You sound like white people speaking against integration

[@keithkennard6398]

These people is that what we calling adult men and women . Thank God today's youth don't tolerate idiocracy ! My 4 sons all appalled at the negative level of communication. Smh that's why I watch Greeks from afar . Always something 🙄

[@georgelewis8798]

Dear Professor Mr. Hill Sir, forgive me. I appreciate this draconian discussion that we shouldn't be having today because we should have already figured it out. Many other cultures have. Unfortunately our political forums require these divisions to promote their very existence. Both your panel members are simply wonderful. Thank you Sir.

[@georgelewis8798]

Thank you Sir.

[@willrucker8352]

LOVE that this conversation happened!

[@destintucker6485]

What happens when someone who identifies as “they/them” or non gender conforming goes to both a sorority and fraternity interesting meeting? What if they don’t want to be identified as “brother” or “sister” or “frat” or “soror”?

[@eatd2059]

Then, they should not try to join.

[@lordlemond1350]

Probably shouldn’t go then or start their own. The frat conventions are nothing new. To that point.. why don’t black people drop the Greek stuff and start their own version is a better q…

[@CopperMe9]

@@lordlemond1350teach

[@rondas7772]

Don't join and just participate in gay meetings and gay organizations

[@LowellBDennyIII]

CHICO STATE UNIVERSITY IS NOWHERE NEAR LA OR SOUTH CENTRAL! It's in NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, NORTH OF SACRAMENTO.

[@meandyou29ful]

Waaaaaaaaaayyyy up North!!!

[@lordhriley]

Just like the entire conversation

[@ebonyr.b.1216]

Thank you!! I low key came to the comments to see if I missed something. Literally like a 6 hour drive away from L.A.

[@agendaxpushers1322]

The elitism definitely needs to be addressed and not just by the queers but all the sorority frat gang members

[@donaldedmonds1495]

Having confidence and be outgoing is not elitism.....I'm not a member but a lot of my friends are... We come from nothing the projects and if Greek life can help to build confidence and family structure I'm all for it. Organizations should be allowed to vet who let in.....

[@agendaxpushers1322]

@@donaldedmonds1495 your justification for greek life is no different than one would make for gang life

[@bobyoung3857]

​@@donaldedmonds1495You have to have guidelines that are based on merit and not bigotry. If it is about who you are above what you can do, that may be problematic.

[@toughcatcompany]

Excellent and necessary conversation.

[@jordanthompson8158]

A Black queer student at an HBCU does not have the liberty to join a non-Black fraternity or sorority due to the culture and history of NPHC organizations being catered to mainly HBCUs. Also, a queer Black student who may attend an PWI and wants to be aligned with an organization where the majority of their counterparts are Black couldn't join a non-NPHC organization. Being non-binary does not make you trans; being a feminine or masculine-presenting male or female who is queer does not mean you don't understand or can't align with being cisgender; it is an in-between-the-lines subject. Excluding these people from organizations such as these does not keep them from facing homophobia they have already faced for most of their lives outside of these organizations. If you go anywhere and are an identifying member of the LGBTQ community, you are subjected to homophobia. Lastly, you can be openly LGBTQ and still participate in and understand respectability politics. If I see an LGBTQ person participating in something like respectability, I would think it would be so that others don't think they are trying to "aggressively push homosexuality" onto others.

[@coreybrownCYoBrown]

Create two transgender organizations and give them a spot in the D9. Make it D11. Transgender can and should be its own gender. That provides inclusion and respectability.

[@brianbrown6806]

No sir..

[@coreybrownCYoBrown]

@@brianbrown6806 I’m interested in what you think would be best?

[@brianbrown6806]

@@coreybrownCYoBrown you get counseling concerning the trauma you dealt with as a child. Not being a jerk either. Childhood abuse is terrible. I think deserving of the death penalty but we can’t live a fairy tale where somehow you were born in the wrong body, juxtaposed to just confused as a result of what that terribly evil person did to you as a child.

[@llanasworld1705]

@@brianbrown6806 your response made no sense and child abuse has nothing to do with transgender people. If you’re gonna present a “solution” at least be educated on the matter first.

[@brianbrown6806]

@@llanasworld1705 you obviously have not read any of the literature or research on the subject? Google PubMed childhood abuse and trans community

[@user-bx1bj4of7b]

They both had very valid points. Points that can lead to understanding. People can split hairs about definitions etc....but the reality that queer people will have to face will be vastly different than a hypothetical. Like what the Que was alluding to at the end: It doesn't matter what you identify as, or what you think the definition of masculinity is......the fact is, you'll have to deal with all personalities and opinions in that organization, good or bad.

[@Qedoshim]

Explain to me again why these organizations are credited for being Christian-principled organizations. . .

[@Anthonyjt12]

As a Kappa minister, where in the Bible is hate or judgemental attitudes approved

[@Qedoshim]

@@Anthonyjt12 explain to me how you can be a Kappa AND minister simultaneously.

[@Qedoshim]

@@Anthonyjt12 explain how you can bow down and kneel to a Roman/Greek pagan god, at his altar. . .blindfolded. . .taking oaths of secrecies.

[@Qedoshim]

@@Anthonyjt12 please repent today. Eternity is forever. Direct quote from your ritual of Kappa Alpha Psi: “POLEMARCH: Then kneel at the Sacred Altar of Kappa Alpha Psi and repeat after me the following oath: I __________ [your name] in the presence of Almighty God and the members of Kappa Alpha Psi, here assembled, and at the Sacred Delphic Shrine, do solemnly swear that I will keep secret forever all things. . .”

[@kokikodevereaux4932]

As a member of DST, I believe that it should be inclusive.

[@george4u1960]

Who cares just live your life? I don’t even worry about that anymore. Let them do anything and I’m certainly gonna do mine. I don’t need that to live.

[@Grapejam339]

I get this segment was only like 16-18 minutes, but I do wish Marc had pushed Brock more on defining what is manly? what is masculine? Is being absurd (no shade), e.g. barking, licking, XXX, the hallmarks of a man? Because at the end, Brock shares one of the benefits of being an Omega Man is being able to fellowship with other grown men and feel safe enough to express your emotions, to cry, to be honest and vulnerable, which are classically viewed as "feminine" traits or behaviors sooo... I hear him on trying to find the distinctions between homophobia and effeminophobia/queerphobia as a path to acceptance for manly gay/same gender-loving Ques, but it really is moot because they are linked. Anything that challenges cisheteropatriarchy, including a manly man who chooses to romantically love and lay with other men (however he chooses to lay with them) is a direct challenge to the cisheteropatriarchal expectations of men, no matter how "manly" he may claim to be. In short, regardless of your flavor of D9 organization (fraternities AND sororities), the orgs must be willing to understand and reject cisheteropatriarchy and many are unwilling to even acknowledge cisheteropatriarchy is a thing...

[@kurtis1149]

Most fraternities are made to portray a certain image. Why is it that people like you want to always change or “destroy” black men spaces in particular or how they choose to conduct themselves.

[@derekbazemore5431]

He articulated himself well. He just didnt want you wanted him to say.

[@Grapejam339]

@@kurtis1149 "People like you" -- I don't even know you nor do you know me, so check yourself. If questions can "destroy" a Black man's space, then that space is weak and fragile to begin with...if you can't even define and discuss what manly is and navigate the contradictions of what you think it is, then your logic is weak and fragile, too.

[@docdahk5993]

They stay making up new words.. just say GAY!

[@ebonecarter300]

This is a great topic. As a gay member of D9 I think progress is happening maybe slowly but progress is better than nothing at all. I think accepting members of the lgbtq+ community is up to the chapters and as times change more acceptance will happen.

[@troybody6662]

Homosexuals are only 3% of the world. That means out of 40 million Black Americans there are only 1.5 million Homosexuals. Our right to reparations and a anti-hate crime bill is being blocked, because Republicans associated Black history and removed Black history as hurting little White children.

[@dogenjoyer2480]

​@roybody6662 where did you get that percentage

[@ferre77]

As a queer identified black person I don’t want to be in these spaces. No one should have to be tolerated especially amongst other black people. If you have an issue with black queer folk that’s a YOU problem. I’m not wasting my time or energy teaching grown folk something as basic and free as respect. Yeah y’all can have it ✌🏾

[@tyronewilliams2202]

I don’t think having an issue with queer people is a “ YOU” problem to anyone. It’s YOUR lifestyle and doesn’t mean everyone has to accept what YOU choose to become. Being a queer,gay, lesbian, homosexual and trans person at the end of the day regardless of what the government says or passes laws on is WRONG because God said so and IF anyone can tell me one lie God told then I’ll shut the hell up! He (God) said just as sure as we live we will die… Can anyone bring the Adam and the Eve from the Garden of Eden to me? I’ll wait!!! At the end of the day, your lifestyle is YOUR choice not everyone’s to accept.

[@jamespierce7006]

Why is sexism so prevalent nowadays?

[@stevechase2232]

They lose me with the "intersectionality" (i think) every time. This should be very simple. Maybe as a gen Xer I'm just old.

[@mbirk2011]

We got to address homophobia in the black community

[@marcoervin7324]

At this point we are tolerate the LGBT community. That's was the goal. By pushing more and more left is the reason liberals are loosing black support.

[@mbirk2011]

@@marcoervin7324 not liberals. Gays. The black community has always been extremely homophobic

[@MrEvfrajr]

At what point will who people sleep with not be people's identities and other people's business

[@phDST1913]

When heterosexual people stop seeing that first when they hear someone is gay or see someone gay... If their first thought would not be about what a person does sexually, then people can just be seen as people.

[@kingwillie206]

It’s not complex at all. Follow the rules when you join or get kicked out. Why do you think forcing the rainbow on private clubs is “moving the ball forward?” Moving it forward for who?

[@mztellit0026]

WHYYYYY?!! Are we having this conversation? It’s not a problem and it is not important. Why would you join an organization that you do not believe is inclusive or hold your own personal values?? 🙄 It’s no different than joining the military and not wanting to honor its customs and courtesies OR being in the Marines and expecting the culture of the Air Force!!! Don’t join say I’m going to join the Marines and but I’m going to wear the Air Force uniform. No the Air Force has their own uniform and their own values. Just because of the personal lifestyle YOU choose to live doesn’t obligate an organization to change their customs and values. I am not Greek. However, I went to college with a heavy Greek presence. Even today I have tons of family, friends, and colleagues who are Greek who constantly encourage me to convert. I support their functions; there are things that I love and there are things that I do not like. Ultimately at 42 likely never will associate myself as a member. But-if I decided differently I would never join the organization and expect the foundational customs I don’t like about the organization to change because of who I am personally 😏 Enough is enough! Everything is NOT wrong or need to change because it is not totally bowed to LGBTQ…and I love you! 🏳️‍🌈 Just as I sd there are things I love also do not like about Greek culture there are LGBTQ family and friends I absolutely adore and still things I don’t like about the LGBTQ culture….and this is ☝🏽 of them!!!!!

[@fullhse06]

The Omega made sense; the Omega didn’t make sense!

[@brianbrown6806]

Didn’t make any sense to me

[@daniellemoxey9940]

It's always wild seeing people who have experienced oppression turn around and oppress other marginalized communities. The majority of comments under this vid are disappointing. MLK an Alpha (who was advised by Bayard Rustin- an out gay Civil Rights activist) once said "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." I'm a straight black woman who does not have the same plight as a black person in the LGBTQIA+ community, and recognize that it doesn't take anything from me to create safe spaces for that group, in fact it does the opposite. I feel elated to open a doors for others vs closing the door. It's hella corny if you think the latter is better and is a reflection of your insecurities. Do better‼️

[@mztellit0026]

@Danielle The two don’t always have to be intertwined 🤓 And-if that fact is being called out doesn’t mean the one or the other is being oppressed. IJS🧐

[@cynthiabrown50]

You missed the discussion

[@kingwillie206]

Why is this woman concerned with Black male fraternities?

[@jasonkieler5584]

My nephew is a Kappa and he married a Kappa.

[@brianbrown6806]

You lying

[@daddygrace253]

@@brianbrown6806 🤣🤣Nothing surprises me anymore in today's world.

[@mheerawisrael5447]

But Greek tho? Still need to figure it out.

[@yayits1990]

They need to create their own space/lane. Going into hetero spaces and demanding you be included when it was meant for them is crazy. Create your own. Stop going into Hetero spaces and making them change to accommodate you. What do you do to accommodate the heterosexual people?

[@keithkennard6398]

sure the same was said for African Americans when we wanted to integrate into schools of higher learning and they didn't want us . Wasn't about our intellect or that we belong . This issue won't ever resolve itself as long as attitudes prevail that cater to this type of mandate . 😢This conversation makes me sad and angry at the same time . Pure bull !

[@jthomas1929]

I know so many lesbian a.k.a. and lesbian deltas and gay kappas in Atlanta. I don’t know what this episode is referencing! Y’all need to come to Atlanta campuses and take a look

[@DavidKitchen-SoWhat]

They are low key ..This is attack on blk folks.

[@rashaadgreene]

I respectfully disagree with the Q gentleman. The same argument could be used for race and slavery in America. Yikes. His argument is a huge slippery slope. Moreover, what is masculinity? Surely it’s not having snatched brows…I mean…the goal is inclusivity and social activism. If your org wasn’t founded on being inclusive then it’s time to level up. Respectfully 🏹

[@naturalmoments9319]

But why should they change for you/queer people? Shouldn't queer people create their own fraternal organizations?

[@rashaadgreene]

@@naturalmoments9319I love your assumption that I’m queer. I identify as an ally thank you. Nothing in the charters or bylaws state that you MUST be heterosexual or that the organization was founded on basis of sexuality. Please watch the video again and listen specifically to the Dr. (the statements before Marc says wow powerful statement).

[@naturalmoments9319]

@rashaadmalik but it is tacitly understood that queerness in a predominantly straight presenting organization is going to get push-back. Go where you are wanted, not tolerated.

[@kylewhittle6565]

What a ridiculous person you are

[@naturalmoments9319]

@carebear01 This is about the Q in LGBTQ. Why do the frats have to accept men who want to walk around in lipstick and high heels? Why do the sororities have to accept a male-presenting female who doesn't want to wear the required dress or skirt to a ceremony but wants us to change the rules so she can wear pants?

[@SoPHIsticAtedGuy83]

We need to have the trans convo in these orgs because it is coming around the corner!

[@brianbrown6806]

Nah

[@DavidKitchen-SoWhat]

There has to be separation.

[@chidebrown4420]

Aside from the Ques black frats are very gay and the Ques are largely on the DL. Pie in the sky conversations have little or no practical use.

[@quentindillon8381]

So you know every Que.OK.

[@chidebrown4420]

@@quentindillon8381 relative in proportions. But if you are a rainbow Que that's your bidness

[@quentindillon8381]

@@chidebrown4420 The fact that blanket statements are not easily digested by the masses you should know better.Has nothing to being a Que just know people are sheepish how they process info.

[@chidebrown4420]

@@quentindillon8381 ok so on social media people are supposed to include footnotes. Be blessed

[@quentindillon8381]

@@chidebrown4420 That response let's me know you know better!God bless!

[@alexricky87]

Such a pointless discussion.

[@casst2890]

Even this video started off CRAZY LOL Chico literally a 10 hour drive from South Central LA STOP IT

[@karendee2752]

This is the jump off of the question what about trans men and Trans women in sororities and fraternities?

[@Marsmajestyy]

If you don’t like the rules of the organization THEN DONT JOIN!!! Simple. Create your own organization and set a foundation that aligns with your beliefs. Why is this a conversation?

[@darthwolfgangproductions3028]

That’s the corner stone of these programs. Now you want to change it once in that’s not the way for change. Do what those programs did and that will start the change

[@walterbrown2425]

Marc gotta go!

[@NS-ju7vz]

Chyle they already been in there. Tons of them. Are you kidding me 😂😂😂😂😂😂. There is a difference between intolerance and inclusion. This is needful conversation.

[@jennifernickelson5002]

Too bad everything is forcing a move to progressive values and identity, the marginalized by choice people want to be embraced above and beyond I disagree with their path and traditions ought to honored and left alone. Keep this narcissistic experience and expressions away for normal people, stop forcing intersectionality on cultures, spaces and expecting others to feel obligated to approve of it.

[@kylewhittle6565]

Normal people? Loool you are definitely not normal

[@phDST1913]

Marginalized by choice? Normal people? That's not everyone's history. It's not a monolith either.

[@blkdragon2010]

Gender have nothing to do with how you identify sexually and race have nothing to do with your sexuality. People need to stop blurring lines and learn boundaries

[@llanasworld1705]

Clearly you haven’t heard of intersectionality

[@stonebanton7716]

Tolerance is the key. You dont have to like anyone but society requires tolerance of not imposing your beliefs of another. You are already included with tolerance. Your Frat has a culture already like the Q's of masculinity. I dont want to see Rambo belt out songs and I dont want to see broadway CAT'S shooting weapons. If I ordered a steak dont bring me spam just because it's how you feel at the time.

[@lizmclemore739]

Chico State isn't in South Central L.A., lol. Not even close.

[@cd5139]

He pronounced effemiphobia incorrectly... Anyway, he would be furious if he knew how many Stillman Omegas I've fkd

[@naturalmoments9319]

He wouldn't be mad because you fkd Ques. He would be mad if they were on the yard or came to a chapter meeting in heels, hoop earrings, eyelashes, and lipstick.

[@can72287]

“Effimiphobia”. It’s not even on my spell check. 😂

[@cd5139]

@@can72287 that's because spell check, like a dictionary, is descriptive, not prescriptive

[@yellanphine827]

Great guest

[@fullhse06]

The omega was intellectually weak… his thinking is internally inconsistent with no depth!

[@rashaadgreene]

Facts 💯 I just knew homeboy was gone come with some 🔥 but sadly he flopped. Looks like he spent more time on his eyebrows than prepping for this conversation. Some folks think lived experience is enough to educate yourself but you have to dig deep, study, and learn how to articulate your lived experiences in a way that moves the needle by changing minds and softening hearts. It’s apparent all of those books behind him are mere aesthetics. Which brings me to back to the fact his brows gave a more fierce presentation than the words he uttered. A good look but no depth and substance. He talked in circles and at one point had me thinking I was losing my marbles. One could say maybe he was nervous….touché …howevvvvvver Marc gave him TWO separate commercial breaks to get his ish together. I applaud the sister because she was READY! She came prepared, ate it up, and left no crumbs! She stood on business and eloquently delivered a robust critique and rebuke of D9 orgs all while providing a sound solution towards implementing change. But are we really surprised that the black woman carried the conversation? lol after all they are the most educated group in the US! Get you a BLACK WOMAN 💚

[@virgoroyalty]

These are private organizations. You can ask for change, but don’t expect it.

[@Arron413]

The two guests do not know what they are talking about. The terms they are using are too ambiguous!

[@DavidKitchen-SoWhat]

Exactly that's how they are trained just like yt folks. They need to just answer the questions

[@natalieleblanc6427]

Maybe the larger issue is the relevancy of these organizations. Stereotypes are abound - always. As an aside - hypermasculinity/feminity is not exclusively negative....If you are questioning the performance aspect perhaps this type of organization is not for you....as a caveat....non member here....and do we ask "white Greeks" to reflect?

[@PhoenixRising82672]

Unapologetically Masculine

[@rashaadgreene]

Facts 💯 I just knew homeboy was gone come with some 🔥 but sadly he flopped. Looks like he spent more time on his eyebrows than prepping for this conversation. Some folks think lived experience is enough to educate yourself but you have to dig deep, study, and learn how to articulate your lived experiences in a way that moves the needle by changing minds and softening hearts. It’s apparent all of those books behind him are mere aesthetics. Which brings me to back to the fact his brows gave a more fierce presentation than the words he uttered. A good look but no depth and substance. He talked in circles and at one point had me thinking I was losing my marbles. One could say maybe he was nervous….touché …howevvvvvver Marc gave him TWO separate commercial breaks to get his ish together. I applaud the sister because she was READY! She came prepared, ate it up, and left no crumbs! She stood on business and eloquently delivered a robust critique and rebuke of D9 orgs all while providing a sound solution towards implementing change. But are we really surprised that the black woman carried the conversation? lol after all they are the most educated group in the US! Get you a BLACK WOMAN 💚

[@darrylsmith-oy7vp]

Right!...He was supposed to Present N Represent both His College and da Frat! He was Well Spoken and prepared to take on this topic and Address possible changes to Soro/Frat pathway and Image... "Stay Woke!"👀

[@DavidKitchen-SoWhat]

What he was doing is typical blk male behavior... not standing for his people.

[@darienwilliams6070]

I'm sorry. I'm with the aunt. She's your friend

[@newreconstructionpodcast]

Performance = Theatre 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@trigi1343]

All these big words being thrown around I have no idea what the actual argument is

[@bribay]

Straight men ain't really trying to be around them flamboyant type. Shit is weird.

[@erinlevere6881]

Thats their insuranities and prejudices they have to deal with.

[@BarnabyWild13]

It can be an unusual night out, but drag men are not my thing. Live your life as you please. But yeah, that intense self awareness and the dramatic performances just isn’t my thing. To each their own.

[@erinlevere6881]

@@BarnabyWild13 you might not be their thing either though

[@tyronewilliams2202]

Shiiid, a straight man AINT gonna be around no flamboyant man. And it ain’t because they insecure like society try to make it seem. It’s simply cause it ain’t right. Just like a woman tryna be a man AINT Right. God created the MAN first for a reason and when it’s ALL SAID AND DONE, the man will be the last being standing. Fuck what government approves and society say.

[@DavidKitchen-SoWhat]

Then they better speak up

[@fullhse06]

The omega was sexy, but I as a gay man, was not at all attracted to him.

[@WenNRome]

I'm sorry, if you strictly base who can join an organization on appearance/gender and not the content of their character or the values, skills and scholarship that they bring to the organization, then it cancels out everything the organization says they actually stand for. I also respect that these organizations have rules, cultures and looks that they have developed and if they aren't willing to change then one shouldn't join that fraternity or sorority....but...just because something has been done one way for 50+ years, doesn't mean change and evolution can't or shouldn't occur.

[@ddjyt2009]

🤦🏾‍♂️🫥 framing “moving forward” “left behind”??? Binary framing🤣🤣🤣 oh the irony😂😂😂

[@macwavy]

Didn’t seem to be a lot of discretion in this convo lol…..but on another note, Marc vs One of those black preachers speak out against the D9 would be a great debate.

[@derrickwoods4929]

That shit sounds ridiculous a man calling another man his husband

[@DavidKitchen-SoWhat]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@DecaturQue]

Smh

[@DecaturQue]

My bad this is a great conversation. Good job Dr Hill. I didn’t have high hope for a public conversation about “discretely operated” organizations.

[@FROMC2C]

👀👀👀👀👀

[@thomasteraoka6311]

hot

[@justhumblemeclarke7292]

Smh