Black Orchestra - GameNight! Se4 Ep28 - How to Play and Playthrough

[@mattp620]

Oh my goodness. What a thrilling game to watch! Love the tenseness of it, and you all played so well. Every second of the game is spent talking about how to pull off the assassination. Which in my mind is a 100% thematic success.

[@derwoodbowen5954]

You sometimes wish a developer would hand the game and rule book to someone and ask them to play the game with NO help and get their feed back on the rules. The rules are SO important to get right. Translations can also be problematic. On the plus side, this game is so very thematic. The tension ramps up as it surely did for the real conspirators. And the inclusion of historical data is a nice touch. I see both Aaron's and Dave's points. The game can be fun if the players can figure out a way to play whether they follow the rule book as intended or just make something that works. But a good rule book could push this game over the top. Thanks, crew, for the play through. (It was cool to meet you, Lincoln, at Orgins last year. Nicki was busy so I did not bother her. Maybe will see ya again at Orgins '17)

[@SlapBassWalrus]

I love how Lincoln's face just lights up as Aaron says 'Atrocities Unimaginable!' in the intro. Really love the series :) Hoping to get round to watching them all!

[@ribblettsgaming2779]

I am loving the longer games. Awesomeness

[@MichaelDart]

With a dark theme, and after a longish rules intro, I wasn't that excited about it in the beginning. But this was a great episode and a tense game.

[@audioweasel6997]

I just watched 4 board gamers try to kill Hitler...and it was MUCH more exciting than watching Tom Cruise try to do it

[@smedleyx_actual]

Most exciting playthrough ever! I can't believe I watched it all! Good job

[@scottishzombie]

Such a great episode! I was on the edge of my seat with you guys. Really looking forward to picking this one up.

[@anikation382]

Wooohuuut! Another GameNight! video with the awesome main crew! YEAHY thank you guys!

[@Viriditas87]

Ani kation ^This! I like most of the others but the main crew is just the best.

[@gejyspa]

Finally got a chance to play this yesterday. Since we were all naive (except for 14yo who brought it over), we (4 players) started on easy mode. We had an amazingly perfect storm of good fortune. Stauffenberg (hereinafter called S) got plot B, the kidnap plot, in the 1st or second turn. Every single one of the weapons tiles started off in Germany as did a signature tile, as we quickly discovered. We gathered them up and gave them to S, used a Secret Briefing to order the events so we knew what Hitler's plans were, drew the Black Orchestra card, got together, and all the extra actions were given to me, which I used to make enough dissent to boost up S's motivation to allow him to carry out the plot and lower Hitler's military support. S detained Hitler from going to Nuremberg and we had an event and a card that together allowed us to disregard 3 eagles while carrying out a plot. S executed the plot with 6 dice, needing only two targets (a 86% chance), and voila, Hitler was taken care of during the first year. (~6-7 turns in)! We knew we had been extremely lucky, even in easy mode, so it didn't make us think less of the game. Great fun. Only wish that had happened in actual history....

[@alexlyf888]

So looking forward to your show every week, thank you all! You guys are the best!

[@ph7232]

Just recently picked this game up whilst at UK Games Expo. Your playthrough has made understanding the game so easy. Plus a few tactics you used are quite helpful. Cheers.

[@TammySmith13]

I am so glad you all ran through this game!

[@Ahoge-dono]

This game looks super exciting, loved that whole "Black Orchestra" card and the strategy that proceeded. "One shot to kill Hitler, either we do this now or not at all."

[@JP-sv2dk]

Fantastic, this sold me on the game! Had to pause the episode to order it on Amazon.

[@doobied456]

Wow - such a fun game...I hope you guys play it again soon.

[@TexasRain104]

AT EASE!.... love the game play. Can't wait for the NEXT one.

[@angewomon143]

During the Nikki roll I was soooo nervous!!! It was super exciting to watch!

[@ennox]

very exciting game! I will become it this week, can't wait to play it! Great explanation (as always)! Greetings from Switzerland. Michael

[@teen-at-heart]

Wow, what an exciting & thrilling playthrough - a great game! As the plot attempts are so strongly linked to the luck of a dice roll, I'd say it's totally ok to interpret unclear rules in favour of the plot team and thereby making the game a bit easier - as you still can increase the general difficulty, if you find it too easy then.

[@nmestler]

This is my favorite GameNight yet!

[@markpatoka]

I've been intrigued by the game for a while and this play through really makes me want to play it now. I'm really drawn to thematic play and this look top notch. Excellent discussion afterwards and I don't think the rules problems will bring down the play value. Great job!

[@Happy2Plan]

love Game Night! I feel like I am watching friends!

[@dkiprijanovski]

56:43 - Lincoln is, has been and always will be - the joke master! :D HAHAHAHAHA Made my day, sir! Thank you! :D

[@Xp913]

Yeah, i just had to go down in comments, to see if someone else had to comment on that haha.

[@Liopot68]

Aaron, the night of the long knives if when the SS disposed of the SA. The night of crystal if when the nazi rampaged through the jewish shops, breaking the windows, hence "crystal".

[@foamheart]

1:51:40 "Dumpster diving" is "Containern" in German, definitely a modern word. :)

[@carlospaz8635]

It is fun to play the BLACK ORCHESTRA and also watch the film Valkyrie... I just ordered the film score. I love playing the game with music playing in the background: TOMB RAIDER, MAD MAX FURY ROAD, GEARS OF WAR, ENEMY AT THE GATES, GLADIATOR. The music really adds to the game experience.

[@leekiel]

Thanks to the Gamenight team. Another very enjoyable episode :)

[@RandomPerson-nd2ey]

1:51:00 Nikki's response is hilarious. It looks like she wanted to Baker Act him for that suggestion. Edit: I haven't run in to any rules issues but I have the other version which doesn't include rolling a die in prison. You simply always draw a card. (Not sure which came first). In any case, you wouldn't move players from prison to another part of the board because they're "not on the board" while in prison. You have to be "on the board" to move. Well, not on the map at least as you have to get out to get back "on the board" (map) via HQ. Cards are played during normal turns. Well, you don't have a normal turn in prison. It's replaced by simply drawing the interrogation card. Though... Yeah, "any time" is weird but logically you can't really influence the world from prison. I haven't noticed a difference in where you set suspicion when freed from prison but will try to remember to check the rules vs board when I get a chance. Edit 2: my rule book doesn't have the scale of how many lives are saved depending on which stage the players win in.

[@boardgamegeek]

We were playing the first edition of the game soon after it's release. They made the changes you mention in the next edition. Thanks for the note and for watching. -Lincoln

[@the_luggage]

"...runaway leader problem..." Hahaha, Dave...

[@BGBarbarian]

theluggage I cracked up with that one. Dave is awesome!

[@LucianoHilton]

I really want to get this game now. Very good.

[@s2601d]

Belive me its not, its beautiful, nice atmosphere, but thats all, when you undestand game mechanic, its very easy to win even on a hard, and main problem of that game is what nothing is happening untill stage 6,7 because military support is too hight, and you just collect items and card, prepare kill and, when military support goes down you just kill with 8,9 Dices easily + with cards which help reroll dice, game in a middle is veeeery booring, and thats is main problem.

[@Rafferty1968]

First time I played this, in a two player game, we got Hitler in Round 5. Its better to have at least two plots on the go at the same time. I'm British, so maybe that is a factor, but we had no issues with the wording on the cards at all. When you divide the dice between the players, they get the number of action equal to the number on the die (that they have been given).

[@GShock112]

Perhaps the bad choices were not highlighted because we can neither really see the black boxes (work for the nazi) nor the items. Personally, the way I understand the mechanics, the conspirators focused on keeping too many choices open but did not look for the items required. Of course, I must be taking into account the fact that at some point they all devolved their entire pool of resources to make Nicky's plot work. I think the attempt failing could have still been recovered and the game saved had the conspirators not been so focused on the plot and not on being discovered (too high suspicion levels) but again chances 'conspired' also against the conspirators because they both rolled eagles when in jail. The guys this time did an amazing job with showing the amount of planning and player interactions to make things happen in this game. I think thematically this game is very solid and do mind how many attempts Hitler escaped in real life. He was very hard to kill indeed but out of the 2 dozen co-ops I've seen the guys play this is the closest they got to win. For the records, I think anyone who looks at these videos ALSO has BGG forums as a favorite in their browser. :-)

[@Allansteel82]

same feelings with regards to the rules. I love the game though. One of my favourite games from last year.

[@damaddestgamer]

Does Aaron live a dangerous life by day? He's always got bandaids on his hands :P

[@CrystalblueMage]

2nd edition is already on kickstarter so good....

[@Crowle83]

They just succesfully funded a kickstarter for a 2nd edition with a overhauled rulebook

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

Ideally they also improve the card font sizes etc.

[@khtkruse]

If the bad rulebook was truly the biggest downside to this game, then I'm sold on a 2nd edition! The gameplay looks incredibly challenging and fun.

[@teen-at-heart]

Actually, nowadays most Germans pronounce the ST in Gestapo seperately - so not [Geschtapo] and like you would pronouce ST in English or most other European languages. However, I can't tell you why we do this (yes, I'm German). Although the word is an abbreviation, the STA stands for Staat (state, nation) and therefore should usually represent that word in its pronunciation. It's crazy, but that's the way it is. Maybe all those Hollywood movies influenced German pronunciation of Gestapo over the decades?

[@Ducati11111]

wow amazing game. Wish it was available!

[@mattwoor4610]

Loved this play through, the suspense at the plot attempt was awesome. I'm thinking of buying this, and saw a second edition of the game was published in 2018 - does anyone know whether this 2nd edition resolved those rule glitches?

[@Quincy_Morris]

Oh snap! Dietrich Bonhoeffer is in this? He’s considered a great hero of Christian history. Dank.

[@jtandkt4jc]

"I love it" "...At Levit's" I caught that! =)

[@jonathanmarkte]

I can't believe that I actually hoped Nikki would get the rolls. LOL.

[@Anondod]

Watch out for Gurbles! (Sorry, it's just funny to listen to the accents.)

[@fabvier]

Hey Aaron....knock-knock !

[@jimmyjim2]

58:07 I count myself amongst those select few that love and understand the "run to water" comments :-)

[@gorsh7870]

Thematic game night: We play Secret Hitler as an opener when the whole group is in. If the fascists win, and after some leave, we play Black Orchestra. Next day, we play Twilight Struggle...

[@harmweber9848]

Dave's knock-knock joke reminded me of another great German joke: (Read in your best Arnold voice) Do you know what they say about crime in Germany? It is against the law.

[@gejyspa]

31:00 Hint: Don't throw coffee in Himmler's face the moment you meet him. Also, why doesn't anyone besides Lincoln know how to pronounce Abwehr and Wehrmacht? You guys need to watch more WWII movies. (And also, I thought all older gamers (like my brother) had to be fluent in German, so you get those eurogames before companies like Rio Grande existed?) 1:36:00 Okay, you're giving Nikki 16 actions to try to kill Hitler. There is 46 minutes left in the video. I'm going to predict...she doesn't make it.

[@AldusValor]

I just got the second edition, and I'd have to double-check, but I don't believe that that black orchestra card is even included in it...

[@StevenHunter777]

I just looked: no black orchestra card.

[@AldusValor]

BoardGameGeekTV I'm not sure. Overall, I also feel as though our first run through of the game felt largely easier than the game you guys played here. Not sure what other specific changes might have been made, or worse-- if we did anything wrong.

[@FredAlleanKabaret]

After 2 years, how does this game stand in your shelf guys?

[@boardgamegeek]

Fred, I still think the game is fantastic but I've only gotten in one other play since we filmed this episode. I do wish to change that situation. Thanks for the note and for watching. -Lincoln

[@r4tb0y55]

Wish the game would be a bit more historically accurate replacing Hess in 1941 with Bormann would be historically correct and the throwing others in there like speer would be cool for history buffs.

[@raffyshow89]

Hi, a doubt: if I go to the "Paris" box (-3 suspect and +1 military support) and my suspicion is "medium", can I activate the bonus and go down to "low"? Or do I necessarily have to decrease the level of suspected of 3 to activate it?

[@P_E_P_1966]

Seems like a cool - interactivations & talking & planning & collections & options & executions & timing & dice - G A M E - T H X - GG

[@isabelmiteineml6198]

Hy,one question:the Lady from your group, was she yesterday in Essen ? I thought she was it when i bought the two games Gnomopolis ans Catch the moon.Thanks for answering.

[@boardgamegeek]

Yes that was Nikki. She works for Surfin' Meeple and it's likely she sold you the games. Thanks for the note. -Lincoln

[@miguelpereira702]

when will you guys be playing Fury of Dracula? :D

[@Nostradamuzzzz]

Dave's end game discussion topics are just great. If you have fun, what else really matters? Its when you get stopped by an unclear rule from playing the game that the game really sucks.

[@Pixiez]

Man, I can't wait to be old.

[@jamesreeves8671]

Love to see you guys play through Unfair.

[@lucadegiuliani5411]

we need more zoom on the map, it's so far away in my opinion

[@freemanedwards5663]

Cool

[@WW2SolitaireBoardGameChannel]

Did anyone try this in solo? How is it?

[@shaleyaregenherz]

I'm ... conflicted about this game, because the theme does hit close to home, and it's not that killing Hitler doesn't make me remarkably excited--it does!--it's just that I am not on board with playing those specific conspirators, or the Schwarze Kapelle in particular. I wonder if I would feel less conflicted about it, if I could play fictional representations; probably not. What bugs me is that those are still terrible, terrible people that actually existed--not that I don't like playing terrible people--but there doesn't seem to be context--either thematic or through the rules of play--that you're still playing a Nazi, or, to be precise, a conservative military officer responsible for the death of, oh I don't know, millions? A lot of the terror is also ... kind of ... out of sight? Maybe if that 'how much you won by' condition would be more present on the board? I am sure there might be ways to contextualize this better; it could still be a great game, of course! That's just something I would really want for a game like this. Also, maybe some other people will know this: the game is available for purchase in Germany, but the symbols (especially the SS sig runes on the interrogation cards) are clearly unconstitutional according to German law, so I wonder if there'll be problems? Or maybe this is cleared for some reason? Huh.

[@khtkruse]

I don't believe the game is available in Germany, for the very reason you cited.

[@gorsh7870]

So for example, when the Kristallnacht card is drawn they'd actually go all "meh" and carry on, instead of being extra motivated to stop what's happening....

[@danteshydratshirt2360]

I think Aaron was unnecessarily harsh in demoting the game from a 10 out of 10 to 7 ut of 10 purely over some unclear rules

[@GretSeat]

Lucky for him a 2nd edition came out to clear up the rules

[@joshmartin2744]

Someone forgot to add the annotations to the end of video video links...

[@joshmartin2744]

Hmm... that's a bit annoying. That makes it impossible to make corrections after a video has gone out. I feel like while that policy change might make crappy channels a bit better, it takes away from the power of resposible channels, such as BGGTV. Regardless, thanks for the reply.

[@aeronomer8389]

Fart jokes never get old

[@greytoeimp]

did you guys ever play clank! ?

[@heccubus1]

Joseph Sedita yup. Coming soon. Stay tuned.

[@TerrickTerran]

Looking forward to that one.

[@ataseyedbagheri7724]

1:31:25 why roll 10 dice ?

[@BoromirTheGrey]

I played this once, no way in heck is it possible for that and I don’t see how. Maybe a card was played I missed. I was gonna ask the same thing.

[@afriendofafriend5766]

I guess Germany isn't part of Europe anymore.

[@GShock112]

Huge changes to the rules with the 2nd edition. No way they would have been going so easy with them 🙄

[@freemanedwards5663]

29:20

[@paulbuehler8596]

It sounds like they definitely need a second edition. This could also be themed really well in a fictional universe like DC or Marvel, where you play as villains, plotting against a group of heroes.

[@chadvader974]

Er. One thing that puts me off your playthroughs is that you talk over the female player constantly and assert yourself over her turn. For the entire game you talk about her n the 3rd person like she's not even in the room. "You can make her do this" or "you can make her do that" why not talk to her directly?

[@KrashmanVonStinkputn]

Kristallnacht (Night of Broken Glass) 1938- pogroms against Jewish population Night of Long Knives 1934- Purge of the Brownshirts main focus Ernst Rohm and his loyalists

[@MrSkarfacex]

Sorry for the thumbs down. This is ONLY because of the theme ( I can't understand to give this past-dictator a role in a (board)game, even if the players are the "good"ones, but that is just my opinion) and certainly NOT for the outstanding gameplay of this game, good mechanics, tense situations, cool gameboard and cool players who teach and play. Keep up the good work . I love your vids but myself could never play this game unless put in another jacket. 👍

[@gunsbulletsheroin]

not an axis and allies fan i take it

[@Rajakjel]

I'm on the fence about this game. Maybe it's because I'm German, maybe because we have a rise of the right wing and neo-nazis in the last years, but playing fast and loose with history - and awful, horrible history at that - for the goal of entertainment just doesn't sit right with me. Another problem I have is the motivation mechanic. Dietrich Bonhoeffer (the priest) is a different matter, because AFAIK he acted out of moral obligation, but Stauffenberg for example was just an opportunist, and saying his motivation rises when antisemitic laws are proposed or the Kristallnacht happened paints him in a light that just isn't true to history. He was a military man, his motivation was to stop Germany from losing a war and political power.

[@s2601d]

Game its beautiful, nice atmosphere, but thats all, when you undestand game mechanic, its very easy to win even on a hard, and main problem of that game is what nothing is happening untill stage 6,7 because military support is too hight, and you just collect items and card, prepare kill and, when military support goes down after 6,7 war comes to end, you just kill Hitler with 8,9 Dices easily + with cards which help re roll dice, game in a beginning and middle is veeeery booring, and thats is main problem. Even Pandemic hold you in stress whole game, and have plenty DLC, this game has nothing. 4,5 Times play its maximum, after you never get's back, because its just boring.

[@damaddestgamer]

This game seems ridiculously bad if the entire success of your plots relies on dice rolls...as was demonstrated by the big turn with Nikki getting 20 actions.

[@eastlynburkholder3559]

@Charmiskit late response and I have no worries about a late reply because comments and replies to comments are for the readers and the commenters. I find that with dice or cards or chits or tokens, perfect balance is not ever possible. My great nephew rolled 3 6s which is 18 and then said to my mom 'you can't roll 18 and therefore you cannot beat me' and then my mom rolled 3 6s. It might never happen again in my lifetime but it happened once. It taught my great nephew a very apt lesson on how 'impossible' and 'highly improbable and very unlikely' are very different things. What annoys me more than transparent luck or random chance being in a game is when players make choices but the choices do not affect the outcome at all or very much and the player feels that the choice should affect the outcome or else not be a meaningless choice in this game.

[@krezolica]

Small advice. Do not bring historical facts up if you are not sure when it happened or to whom. Geeez.

[@jasontharris7575]

This game is ridiculously complicated. 30 minutes just for rules explanation is too long.I like the longer games but the rules explanation needs work. Maybe it was the "oh and this happens" or "oh and if your so and so is this, do this, unless it says this then do this. The design seems very complicated to me. Oh, one more thing.... :)

[@nellgwenn]

It seems like there's more discussion than game playing going on here. And no one has to go to the bathroom or eat or spy in a coffee shop or get in touch with the French Underground. Not a fan of this game.