Black Powder Granulation Discussion

[@Leverguns50]

I definitely agree with you on the 3F, no reason to buy so many different types

[@dougmayberry9998]

Some channels say that 3f burns cleaner than 2f. Some channels say that Swiss burns cleaner than the other brands. You guys have convinced me to try 3f Swiss.

[@BuckskinDave]

Swiss is a good powder, thanks for stopping by

[@MuskratOutdoors]

I agree Dave. FFF is the best all around powder. More FPS and burns a bit cleaner too. Sure, it's not cannon powder, but muzzle stuffer or cartridge it's the powder to use. 32 cap-n-ball up to my 50-70, or 54 cal muzzle loader, I've had nothing but good results. Great having blue birds that close! All I ever get is starlings or English sparrows. I had a Graph & Sons powder screen that was supposed to sort the fine dust out of each size black powder. The idea was it was supposed to make it more accurate for target shooting at long range. I couldn't see any difference in doing it or not doing it. Sold off those screens, but the point is, that everyone has ideas to make black powder work better. Most are gimmicks. A drop tube, for what ever reason, it works! I have no idea why? Unless you have a cannon, FFF is all you need. Great comparison video! You probably won't convince everyone though. DANG! I like that carbine! Great looking, practical hunting rifle! Jack uses Triple Seven. It seems hotter than Goex, but that's just a guess. It still needs cleaned at the end of the day, but might be a little less corrosive, but I'm not sure.

[@BuckskinDave]

I think that Trip 7 might develop more velocity than black powder. I have some that I tested for a writing and I loaded cowboy BP loads with it. Not a fan of the counterfeits.

[@jonathansteiner3251]

Hello Dave Dave, thanks for all the great info. I’ve kinda came to the same conclusion as you as to the 3f. I’ve got to stock up on a little more 3f still have four full cans left, double that of 2f. I wished I had stockpiled a bit more back in the day when it was easier to get. I have a few cans from Thrifty drugstore and a lot from hardware stores. Sad those days are gone. Great that your bluebirds are still about. Saw some out hiking the other day on the foothills. Y’all take care my friend.

[@randyschuck6582]

Thank you for another great video Dave I have been using 3F for years in my 54 with great results I is cool to see the data from a croni like you showed 100 fps is huge in a muzzle stuffer

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for dropping by

[@steveww1507]

Here in New England i fint 2 f for priming dose not draw in the damp like finer powder dose . great vid .

[@BuckskinDave]

WoW, that's new to me, thanks for the tip

[@chrisyanik9984]

Thank you for making me aware. Always good to gain knowledge

[@BuckskinDave]

Glad you could stop by

[@tommorelli8994]

Excellent!

[@mr.thickey1820]

Hey Dave, you ol' "decarbonated PAISANO & vino lover you"! At 81 now ( I could be your GRANDPAW!), yours is about the best discussion on FFFG vs FFG black powder I've EVER heard!!! Been shooting since about 1968 (but lost my shooting range 3 years ago & have no place to shoot anymore! But my ol' heart ACHES to shoot again before I "croak"!)! I've always used FFg in my .58 Hawken (custom made in 1968 by Andy Fautheree from Oregon before he moved. 1&1/8" Bill Large barrel). The same for my .58 Parker Hale 1853 Enfields with "Minnie balls"! Always "afraid" to try FFFg! Never had access to a chronograph. How I've missed so much out of life! Would love to see a discussion on BARREL LENGTH vs POWDER CHARGE!!! How heavy a charge would my .58 32"L Hawken barrel burn EFFICIENTLY?! Why load "heavy" just to have the powder blow out the barrel, like wasted?! Thanks for all your wunnerful & educational videos!!! "Gesundheit" und pass da LUTEFISK poleaze! A nice cup of strong COFFEE would be nice too!

[@johnnottahcal5725]

Good discussion and coffee. 😊 I have a Pedersoli flinter that if I wanted to have 4F powder in the pan while woods walking, Id best be adding as I go.

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for stopping by

[@marksparkplug7758]

Very good Dave, and top of the morning to you. Been warm here I went turkey hunting yesterday morning and the mosquitoes were out in force, hens are are nesting and toms are searching.

[@BuckskinDave]

Way kool, good luck with the turkeys, my bear bait has a sow with two cubs and a single that is medium sized living off me. He is a pretty chocolate color with a white chest patch tho. I haven't shot a bear in 8 or so years might just hunt this one with the camera. I still have enough elk and deer in freeze to last till hunting season. Thanks for dropping by

[@marksparkplug7758]

Morelli's Tactical Advantage good deal Dave, Elk is on my bucket list.

[@juantovar4861]

I like to watch more videos from you. We use all powders but our favorite is using black powder in cartridges. Anyway thank you for your video

[@BuckskinDave]

I have been ill lately but soon as I'm better. Thanks for checking in

[@kc6671]

Thanks. Been using Swiss 2 f and null B in the pan. Great hunting tip on the finer stuff working its way into the touch hole. Appreciate that....

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for stopping by

[@usnchief1339]

Awesome! Considering what barrels are proofed to, I can't imagine the difference between FF and FFF would be anything to even worry about. Great video and thank you very much!

[@BuckskinDave]

Glad you could drop in

[@gregcheney7173]

These are the topics and reasons why coffee talk is so important! You can tell a lot from fired brass.

[@BuckskinDave]

Yup

[@juantovar4861]

Thank you for your video.

[@63DW89A]

In the 19th Century, based on the research I've done, FFg was "Musket / Shotgun Powder", FFFg was "Rifle Powder", 4Fg was "Pistol Powder" and around 1855, very fine-grained 5Fg became known as "Cartridge Powder". The reason for 5Fg ""Cartridge Powder" in 1855 was that was the year Colt's Cartridge works came into existence making tin foil cartridges for Colt revolvers, and at Samuel Colt's request, Hazard Powder Company made the 5Fg for revolver cartridge use. Colt's tin foil cartridges flopped, but in 1858, when Colt's paper powder envelopes replaced the tin foil, the revolver "combustible cartridges" became very popular, and a lot of other manufacturers moved into the business challenging Colt. On the packets of .31 /.36 / .44 revolver combustibles of many manufacturers, clearly stated is the information "Made of Hazard Cartridge Powder". Hazard called 4Fg "Number One Pistol Powder"! I've made revolver combustibles for .36 and .44 revolvers using Swiss Null B (5Fg) and it is potent, clean burning stuff. Only need roughly about 10% conical bullet weight for about 950 fps, meaning about 13-15 grains under a 130 grain .36 revolver conical,and about 22 grains under a .44 220 grain revolver conical! Can't loose load the fine 5Fg, as it will dribble thru nipples and coat the revolver breech face, setting up a chain fire possibility. The 5Fg has to be contained inside the paper powder envelope glued to the base of a revolver conical bullet. Safe Shooting!

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for the info, glad u could stop by

[@randyzwieg8467]

I've been thinking about that lately. Switching over to 3f would reduce some logistical issues. Around here black isn't as easy to get and the most reliable source is talking about selling out. That means driving 80 miles instead of 30. Damn... Btw that rifle looks like it's come along nicely. Thanks for sharing.

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for dropping by

[@jcastle614]

Great info Dave, just starting to get back into muzzleloading . Didn't really know the difference between the different powders. I'm shooting .50 cal muzzleloader. Would love to have one of those 😁 cartridge guns though . Looking forward to seeing some of your game footage. I'm a hunter also , been having some 🐻 trouble lately. Stay safe and God bless 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸!

[@BuckskinDave]

Got a 3 bear visit last check. I goofed and had the camera on pics and not vid, but I reset it up and they will come back. Thanks for dropping by.

[@brianlee6849]

Great info thanks 👍.

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for checking in

[@flintrichards945]

I have had about the same experience as you have had the only thing I have done different is use cartridge grade. I bought a bunch of it for one rifle that I used in matches because that rifle shot so well with it. It seems to be about the same size as 2f but looks a little more shiny to me.

[@BuckskinDave]

I never used the stuff, thanks for dropping by

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Hot Darn! I did not really see that coming. THANK You Sir! I'm going to mill all my 1fg down to 3fff! I don't know about 3fff in my Big Boys, OR STONERS, .59, .69, or .63? I NEED A CRONO! all my BP and caps are DIY as the regular stuff is Un Obtainium in my area. my most common mill run pucked, corned is 1f, next 2ff, 3fff is a bit harder to hit my mark? but I just fabed a twin roller system to get it sized down easy. I'm on it Sr! Thanks Again!

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for stopping in

[@michaelhoran955]

good info..thanks.

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for stopping by

[@johnnyholland8765]

I tried some of the Goex cartridge and couldn't really tell a difference. I think it was supposed to be screened to give a more uniform granulation. Pour mine through a drop tube so it don't really matter with me. I like the crescent buttplate on that gun. Be glad when my wood comes from Treebone so I can finish my side lever 32-40 Hepburn. Good to put a disclaimer in your intro. Folks do some crazy stuff..............

[@BuckskinDave]

i had to remove a bullet from a Black Powder Cartridge that was sized wrong and the powder didn't come out, it was a block in that case so I think it is compressed into the same burn rate. hanks for stopping by

[@brucelewis1017]

I had a pound of 3f american pioneer powder give to me. I'm thinking about trying it in my investarms 58cal muzzleloader

[@BuckskinDave]

I like 3f.

[@soylentgreen7074]

I have 2 f and 3f goex it’s all I’ve ever used. BPCR shooters seem to swear by swiss 2f or 1 1/2f. I’ll definitely have to try to see if fouling changes at or accuracy.

[@BuckskinDave]

I have never used Swiss, Goex, Schutzen, and elephant in all granulations. I was a bit disappointed in Swiss and stick to Goex now. Thanks for stopping by

[@35southkiwi16]

I've used too many Fs here and not enough there and it's never seemed to make a great deal of difference. Was more about what I could lay hands on. I wasn't as scientific about it as you though and perhaps velocities did differ. Interesting video. Thanks.

[@john-ls8wq]

I have a 54cal Thompson renegade and a 54cal Thompson scout inline I have a bunch of 2f, 3f, and 2f triple seven, and 3f triple seven just wondering if I am using 3f in them and the 3f triple seven what would you suggest that the load would be I use normally 80 grains of 2f I know you have to decrease the load to what though why I have so many different types of powder right at the moment is because people are literally buying everything off of the shelf in all these stores here in Oregon but there's a muzzleloading store about 40 miles from me not too many people know about they have tons of supplies and there is a gun store/ammo store that I just found out about only 7 miles from me fully stocked the locals told me about since I moved out here moved out of the city back into the country from crap hole Portland used to live in eastern Oregon back to the country life

[@BuckskinDave]

There is a book, Black Powder Handbook that has great starting loads for different types of powders. It would be a good one to own if you are developing loads especially with Trip 7 as I have little knowledge with that stuff. Thanks for stopping by

[@mojomike3913]

Hey Dave, I'm plotting to build my first flintlock. Was wondering if maybe you'd sell a pound of 3F to a fellow Lemhi County resident? I'm struggling to find shooting supplies on the shelf anywhere.

[@russellbrill3721]

I do the same thing I shoot 3f all my rifles but I shoot 2f in my shot guns I could never get good patterns with 3f

[@BuckskinDave]

I have shot little with the BP shotgun because I just got into another one after not having one for 30 years. But I seem to remember it working ok with 3F and I used card and paper wads. Thanks for stopping by.

[@MuskratOutdoors]

Interesting. I don't own a BP shotgun.

[@foreststalkerbrothers]

Good video, dave ! I have been wonderwing how all this works, recently bought a kentucky rifle .50 by david pedersoli and i wanted to know whats the F FF FFF thing about. Hello from Eastern europe !

[@BuckskinDave]

There is a lot to know. if you have access to some of the books by Sam Fadala on black powder there is not an unanswered question in there. 2 or 3 F should work great in that 50. Thanks for stopping in from E Europe.

[@foreststalkerbrothers]

@@BuckskinDave in slavic countries, black powder rifles and shotgun muzzleloaders are the most avalibe guns if you dont own (pain in the ass to get) permit, but sadly american books about them are hard to get.

[@BuckskinDave]

@@foreststalkerbrothersSorry to hear that, Did the rifle come with a instruction pamphlet with a load to work with? That should get you going.

[@foreststalkerbrothers]

@@BuckskinDave no, thats why i am here. But studying about muzzleloaders is for me best when i look on american videos, and i make a conclusion based on multiple sources. Right now i know i should star by square load, 50grain on 50 cal lead ball. I have some MAXI HUNTER bullets aswell, those i gotta try from 50grain to 90 grain to see what best for my rifle. As i said, big appreciate for your work. I am highly interested in ammunition for about 5 years now and your chanel provides me nice information.

[@BuckskinDave]

@@foreststalkerbrothers There are a bunch out there, many on my channel

[@talisikid1618]

So, what’s the alternative to goex? What if 4f is all you can find? Ok for pistols?

[@BuckskinDave]

4 F might b a little fine for anything other than pan powder, that's what they recommend, I have never used it in a barrel. I was talking to Buffalo Arms and it looks like Shutzen and Swiss are the alternatives.

[@braunreinhold6020]

In the old days my 58 with a 20 inch barrel, loaded with 120gr. of 3F pushing a 525gr. Miniball would go through both sides of a ford Econoline van at 100yards every time. The entrance hole was the size of a silver dollar, the exit hole was 2.5 to 3 inches. In my humble opinion 3F is a hands down better choice over 2F. BTW the recommended load for my 58 was 60gr of 2F. I got better velocity and accuracy from my 3F load, not to mention it burned cleaner. At 100yds it took many a white tail off it's feet and didn't blood shoot the meat into dog food I had a 7mag, 300winmag, 30-06, 308, 444, 45-70 , 30-30 to name a few but the 58 was my go to meat gun, it never failed I did have a BP 38-55 that did an excellent job out to 150 yds. but the 58 was always the choice. Just my experience back in the day

[@BuckskinDave]

I started putting 3F in my front stuffers back in the 80's when I when I started shooting rocklocks. One powder was good for the barrel and pan, just never went back. I keep a couple of cans of 2F around for experiments and test loads but usually come back to 3. thanks for checking in

[@braunreinhold6020]

@@BuckskinDave 2F stacked on top of 4F is a great load for blowing stumps.

[@wittsullivan8130]

3f is obviously fine for anything .50 and up. I use mostly .60 and up caliber guns, so I use 2f in everything. 2F is good for larger volume cap and ball revolvers, like Walkers and Dragoons. The only guns I shoot real blackpowder in are my flintlocks because I can't get it locally, I mostly use 2f substitutes in everything else, even pistols, because it's the only thing I can get locally.

[@BuckskinDave]

I like using Black when I can, but pyrodex is better than not shooting. Thanks for checking in

[@obbyjep7597]

Very interesting. I sometimes load some 12g shotshells with 3f, its just what i found and i never thought to much of it, is shot out of a newer shotgun that normaly would shot smokeless. Is that ok or should i use 2f?

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for dropping by

[@Strutingeagle]

I don't agree with using less powder by going with 3f. Powder is sold by weight. A given volume of 3f is heavier than that of 2f. I like it because it flows better in the flasks.

[@BuckskinDave]

Thanks for stopping by,

[@CutbankOutdoors]

I do the same in my 54 Flint. I don't have chronograph but guessed it was faster😜

[@BuckskinDave]

Yup, Thanks for dropping in

[@thompsonjerry3412]

Get some Swiss Powder, gain up to 100 feet per second

[@BuckskinDave]

I have not used Swiss but I heard it was a little hotter. Next time I order, I think it is going to be the replacement for Goex for a while. thanks for stopping by

[@63DW89A]

@@BuckskinDave Goex duplicated the original 1802 Dupont formula using maple charcoal for their black powder, which reduced pressure a bit over sporting grade black powders, such as Hazard Powder Company who used willow charcoal for a hotter black powder. Swiss uses Alder Buckthorn charcoal to make a higher performance "sporting grade black powder", similar in performance to the best 19th Century American black powder made by Hazard.