Black Powder vs. Pyrodex, Part 2: Chronograph Testing

In this video, I continue my comparison between black powder and Pyrodex. This video includes chronograph testing to determine velocity and energy. Be sure to subscribe to my channel for more videos. Thanks for watching!
Here’s a link to part 1 of this comparison: • Black Powder vs. Pyrodex
Here’s a link to my video on cleaning a cap & ball revolver after using either of these powders: • How To Clean A Cap-And...
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[@GunsOfTheWest]

Check out the Guns of the West store here: gunsoftheweststore.com

[@ArizonaGhostriders]

Excellent comparison. Why didn't you use a chronograph in the first video? 😎

[@GunsOfTheWest]

LOL!!! Thanks, Santee!!

[@marcogram1216]

Imagine with some Swiss powder. Long Hunters have been getting even better velocity.

[@thevacuumtubejunky9774]

Great video Dustin. Ive somewhat fell out of the black powder hobby for short bit, but are getting back into the swing of things. Correct me if iam wrong, I have noticed recently that "IMR" powders are producing "Pellets" that are pre-measured and have a hollow center , I think they're called "White hots" and other various names that are not only used in muzzle loading rifles, but now pre-charged for cap and ball revolvers. Have you any experience with using these formed charges by chance?. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us viewers. Kind regards, Eric Dee.

[@Puppy_Puppington]

I wish someone answered this

[@GovtWatchdog]

Well my Saturday’s off to a good start. Thanks Dustin.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!

[@gonshocks]

Thanks for the excellent video. I use the Pyrodex in my 1858 Remington copy for two reasons. First it's almost impossible to find BP where I live and second, not everyone at the range I belong to likes the smell of burnt sulphur so I try to be mindful of my fellow shooters.

[@jeremygunslinger1948]

I still prefer true black powder. Always seems to go bang no matter what. Pyodex well it's iffy out of some of my rifles. And the clean up with true has always seemed easier for me. Than any substitute. I can get.

[@kirkboswell2575]

I see your data with the Pyrodex. My experience has been otherwise. While I didn't have a chronograph, I did have a very wide lake. With identical charges and using the same gun, and the same site picture, the Pyrodex shots ALWAYS hit the water 10 to 20 feet sooner than black powder did. I assumed all along that this was going to be the case every time. But a year or three ago, I ran into another shooter who had the same results that you did. Now, I've got a dilemma. Who is right??? I can answer that question now. My can of Pyrodex had been opened 6 months before I did my test. The guy with the chronograph had just cracked the seal on his can during that testing. I'm proposing, therefore, that Pyrodex has a shorter shelf life than black powder, if full performance is the goal. That's what I'm thinking now.

[@Ballenxj]

Using a chronograph will usually get a thumb up from me every time. Thanks! ;-)

[@peterthomas95]

Very good evaluation. I have a dragon 44 and I use both partners. But I can see the accuracy in the black powder sing more consistent

[@johnparrish9215]

Try Conical Bullets, that is were the Holy Black really shines.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

I agree. I already have a handful of videos on them.

[@johnnypipe]

Nice video, Dustin. Thank you for doing this side by side. Like you, I still prefer the original.

[@williampollock1274]

I bet if you had used Old Eynsford or Swiss it would have been very close or equal to the Pyrodex. I notice when I use Olde Eynsford I usually get about a hundred feet per second faster over standard goex. Just throwing that out there.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

That’s interesting! One of these days, I’ll do a comparison of the different brands of real black powder. Thanks for watching!

[@thevacuumtubejunky9774]

I have always thought that Goex propellants were the bees knees. I guess I stand corrected. The synthetics "Pyrodex" has certainly made some advancements over the years. I can recall in the early 80's I purchased some Pyrodex and have never been so disappointed in it's performances, at that time, that stuff was total junk, and hav'nt bought a single ounce of it since. Maybe I'll suck it up and try some along with the Swedish shootzen powders providing I can find the stuff.

[@ryancawdor8083]

I use the Olde Eynsford 3FG in my BP loads. 40grns under a 250 PRS Big Lube in my 5 1/2in Bbl Uberti ave 1027 FPS.

[@denisdegamon8224]

@@ryancawdor8083 over load my friend. That revolver isn't a Dragoon or Walker Colt. Your max load is supossed to be 30 grains of fffg with a round ball, not even a conical with that load. Now if you were using a Ruger Old Army, you load would be a max charge even for the Ruger.

[@ryancawdor8083]

@@denisdegamon8224 cartridge 45 Colt load in modern manufactor firearm, not a bp only c-and-b arm... Sorry for not being clear

[@scenicdriveways6708]

I thought the Pyrodex would generate more velocity because it's a slower burning powder. Slower buring gives it more time to build up gas to push that bullet down the barrel.

[@woodrowbrimm2805]

Love your videos .I wish you would do the same thing with the Pietta 1860 Army as I just received mine today and I plan to try out Goex and Pyrodex P in it.

[@loknlode]

Pyrodex creates greater pressure and is meant to use less in order to achieve the same result when compared to black powder. In essence, by using the same volume of Pyrodex like you did, you're actually using "more". Owners manuals will state to use X amount of BP. They will tell you to use less Pyrodex. So 35 grains of Pyrodex would be equivalent to 40 grains of BP by volume, just as a rough, round number. 40 grains of Pyrodex would be equivalent to 45-46 grains of BP. And viola, you have increased velocity and energy. Especially out of a gun like the Walker that has extra capacity to hold and efficiently burn that extra. At least that's my understanding and experience with it all.

[@bobsradio6025]

So should Pyrodex be avoided with brass frame revolvers? Or does the steel cylinder take care of that issue?

[@jeepsblackpowderandlights4305]

@@bobsradio6025 just use less in brass if youre worried, ive max load shot my brass revolvers many times hundreds of times, but it was all with normal bp ive never use pyrodex

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Very helpful & interesting. Thanks

[@nephisilver3051]

There is one thing I always wanted to do with black powder and I just haven't had the time to do it .. that is the chronograph the different types a black powder through my 54 caliber Hawkins rifle from One fg to fffg... I know the grains get bigger but I was curious how the rifle would perform with cannon powder all the way down the pistol powder.. Canon powders is the only powder I don't own... But hopefully I'll have time to make it to the shooting range real soon I haven't went target shooting in a long time.. I live in California I'm afraid Dianne feinstein's going to declare my black powder rifle an assault weapon because it takes a percussion cap !!! LOL HAHAHA but I think Diane feinstein's okay with matchlock ??? LOL HAHAHA 😂

[@russellkeeling4387]

At some point you will find the powder will not ignite from the flash you can get from a normal percussion camp if the granulation is to large. I have confronted that problem with home made powder when corning powder.

[@BobWalker-lt6ny]

I got the exact opposite I got 1034 FPS with my cottonelle homemade gun powder shooting 28 gn .454" 141 gn round ball and with pyrodex P 3F I got 828 FPS I'm going to retest it but the 828 was the highest velocity I got from pyrodex

[@donaldlivingston970]

A good and informative video. All I ever used in my modern muzzleloaders was Pyrodex because that's all I could find. A little over 6 years ago I bought a couple cap and ball revolvers and added a 3rd not too long ago. I bought some Pyrodex P to use in them,but haven't used it yet. I got lucky and found a place to get the real stuff (Goex 3F) and so far that's all I've used in my cap and ball revolvers. I guess I should use the Pyrodex so I can feel the recoil difference between the two. Did you notice much difference in the recoil between the two?

[@GunsOfTheWest]

Not really. The Pyrodex is a little more powerful, but I don’t remember noticing a substantial difference in the recoil.

[@olafneumann1223]

Hello, can you say, if the pressure takes off with the length of the Barrel is shorter? For example, if you use a Liegi Derringer 44 with a 6 cm Barrel and not a Gun like your massive Colt with long Barrel. At your other Video I followed, I know that the Volume is important, if you compare Black Powder or Pyrodex. Greeting from Germany.

[@stone14me]

looks like your in randsburg ca..Is this true?

[@GunsOfTheWest]

I’m in Utah.

[@everydayj9330]

From the 1st video it appears to (my eyes) that the Pyrodex has a slightly longer burn time, which would explain the increased pressure/velocity. I plan on getting into BP shooting soon & really appreciate the informational videos you've posted. 😎👍

[@deejayimm]

I think most people use Pyrodex just because it's what most commonly available, hell I can pick up some at Walmart any day of the week.

[@e0ytk]

This is great info, thanks for the follow up comparing BP VS. PYRODEX

[@GunsOfTheWest]

You bet! Thanks for watching!

[@olympicblackpowderrifles3155]

I have all brands of powder but have taken more deer with pyrodex in an Enfield rifled musket.

[@sd3gunner]

I havnt tried water but hoppes no9 works just fine it seems.

[@michaelpriest6242]

As usual, you made a high quality, informative video. Thank you. Is there any chance that you will soon compare smokeless to BP in .45 cartridges?

[@GunsOfTheWest]

That’s an excellent idea! It may be a few weeks or so, but I’ll definitely do that. Would it be ok if I reference your comment in the video when I do? Thanks for watching!

[@michaelpriest6242]

@@GunsOfTheWest that would be fine. Maybe a 3 way comparison with smokeless, BP, and Pyrodex?

[@GunsOfTheWest]

Thanks!! I agree, having all three would be interesting.

[@katsomething3622]

Way more credible in the second video, I think it is less to do with the Chronograph and more to do with the vest and hat..... Either way, both great videos for us new to black powder shooting.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

The hat is the true source of knowledge. LOL. Thanks for watching!

[@GunDrone]

HI Dustin. In your comparison of the dirty barrels, to me it would seem that darker is dirtier than a barrel being shinny. However the strand(s) confuses me in the pyrodex barrel. Anyway, from the tests you did, which was great i would suggest that your Walker likes less powerful loads. Try the pyrodex with 35gr by volume and see if the grouping gets tighter. I have yet to see a BP pistol that shoots better with more than 60% of the max load. Before i watched this, i said i bet the pyrodex was more potent. So shooting it all these years i was correct. :) You can just about feel the power difference but you notice the penetration. Anyways, Good video...

[@GunsOfTheWest]

The Pyrodex fouling was definitely worse. The pictures though didn’t do much justice unfortunately to what the bore looked like after each group. Thanks for watching!

[@GunDrone]

Yeah i was wondering. The pictures seemed to be at slightly different focusing distances. I wonder though what causes the strips of fouling? I've been using pyrodex for years and dont recall seeing the strips but maybe i just didn't care? :) thanks for your time.

[@musketman2008]

I'm torn between using BP vs Pyrodex. I've always shot BP with no problems. When it comes to cleaning, I keep hearing horror stories about Pyrodex ruining guns due to corrosion even after a thorough cleaning with soap and water. Therefore, I'm very hesitant to use it. I use Ballistol in all my BP guns for corrosion protection. What is your take on this?

[@GunsOfTheWest]

I prefer real black powder, but I think they’re both good. Pyrodex is more corrosive, but I’ve never had a gun ruined by it. I usually clean with warm water and Dawn dish soap and it’s worked great. Thanks for watching!

[@tcdahn7]

We always used boiling water to clean the muzzle loaders.

[@VTPSTTU]

Thanks for the information. With a Remington 1858 reproduction, removing the cylinder every dozen or so shots and sending a bore snake down the barrel shouldn't be too hard.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

Thanks for watching!

[@cameronnorton5898]

That shouldn't neccessary. I shot 48 shots thru my uberti 1858 without any maintenance the other day.

[@LostSpaceGuy]

Hey There! I don’t know if you remember my name but I finally got my hands on a tradition 1858 Remington brass frame. I also bought pyrodex, and 454 round balls. It also came with cleaning accessories and flask, and powder measurement. I’m having a hard time find Remington #10 caps in stores so I looked on different websites and found them all sketchy. All of them says “you need a minimum of $100 dollars in your cart. Do you know any trustworthy websites I can purchase Remington #10 caps?

[@pnwoods]

RUN from those sites commanding $100/200 minimums. ... Notice they'll have some excuse about Visa cards not working, .. and they take Zelle. There are 3/4 of them. Different company names. .. Same website graphics. Look professional. Say they have #10's in stock, .. even though Remington, and CCI's website say they are NOT. Give a price of $ 7/8/13 per/100, when G auctions are offering the same 100 cap tin for $34/40/44. Send NO money. They are fraud/scams, .. and Zelle does not refund. How do I know?

[@wallacejeffery5786]

Was the F rating the same? And what were you shooting?

[@charlescomly1]

Thanks Dustin for the video I always find them informative and helpful.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

Thanks very much!

[@nephisilver3051]

Awesome video I love black powder rifles and pistols !!! God bless : )

[@GunsOfTheWest]

Thanks for watching!

[@megatrends]

Very very informative video, thank you.

[@TheYjmfan]

Great comparison

[@ralphperez4862]

That was excellent, Dustin. I'm so very impressed with your informative videos, your information, your "street level" explanations, and your polished and inviting approach. You're the resident regional expert and good to have you in our neck of the woods. I only live up I-15 from you. Of course, ya do have to cross a state line but hey, same general area. Good stuff.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

Thanks so much, Ralph!! I don’t know when I’ll be in Idaho again, but it would be fun to meet up. Thanks, as always, for watching!

[@ralphperez4862]

@@GunsOfTheWest I go to Utah too. I would enjoy meeting up some day soon.

[@AlanThomas-hp3fn]

Is there b a smokess substitute for BP.

[@jimv.661]

Well thought out and presented video. Was wondering though, if the ceiling that you were pointing the revolver at as you cocked the gun was concrete.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

The side walls and ceiling are wood. I’m not sure what kind, but it looks like railroad ties. Thanks for watching!

[@jimv.661]

Mostly thinking about bouncing a ball off the ceiling. I made the mistake of shooting at an osage fence post once. It bounced the ball straight back at me and missed my face by inches. I was about 15 feet from the post.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

Yikes! Yeah, this place as a concrete floor, but the top is wood.

[@Squib1911]

Thanx for revisiting this.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

You bet! Thanks for watching!

[@Squib1911]

@@GunsOfTheWest Live on Caliber Corner right now if you want to check it out. Travisp11 channel.

[@budman1181]

Yes I'm still a little partial to the black powder very nice with the info and the data appreciate you taking the time very nice

[@GunsOfTheWest]

You’re welcome! Thanks, as always, for watching!

[@taurushipointenthusiast1306]

Still incomplete just to much to cover sitting around rooms and ranges (lead ball stuffed in between teeth) Merely to aide my learning can not hear nothing mouths a running kinda thing. I hear yes and no....Question is Black powder Vs Pyrodex shelf life? Some say black powder best others use silica in the pyrodex and say it last the same if cared for I am not exactly brand new watching the old folks bat this around is a joy eheheheheheheheheheh yeah sometimes when aint no one paying attention I fan em ashes just to chuckle again hahahaheheheh

[@Dv087]

Good video. I have an idea for two more videos. Compare the Walker against the shorter chambers of the Navy and Colt. I am curious as I do not have a Walker. I have been tempted to pick one up but, would like to see the difference between the two. I luckily have no problem getting a hold of black powder where I live. I actually have two containers of both Pyrodex and Black Powder. For convenience when I just want to fire a lot of shots I have started using Pyrodex pellets. I don't believe you can use them in the Walker. They are pre-measured for the shorter chambers of the Colt and Navy. I have noticed substantially more recoil using these over both Black Powder and Pyrodex powder.

[@jameshagerman7681]

I don't own any cap and ball revolvers but I do use Pyrodex RS in my hawken, mostly because it's easy to find and affordable. Clean up is easy enough with warm water, a little dish soap, and if I've been shooting sabots some hoppe's #9 bore cleaner. Then wipe down with a lightly oiled cloth and it's good to go.

[@independentthinker8930]

I can not find lamb or mutton tallow anywhere semi reasonably priced!

[@GunsOfTheWest]

I usually buy it online from Amazon.

[@independentthinker8930]

Thanks, all I have found is by the ounce and very expensive

[@Eugene2ndW]

I like to swab bore and cyl was well as outside with non abrasive GoJo before leaving the range. Sure makes clean up much easier. Is it true that Pyrodex requires a vinegar treatment to neutralize its alkali residues?

[@d.jensen5153]

It ought to be mentioned that your results don't necessarily indicate Pyrodex generated higher pressures. The greater velocities could have been a result of more sustained pressures. In the smokeless world this kind of thing happens all the time.

[@russellkeeling4387]

I don't really think he will have to worry about to much pressure from either powder. I've done some testing and found I couldn't get enough powder in a cylinder with a bullet on top of it to create enough pressure to be dangerous. Pyrodex burns more like smokeless powder than black powder. I may be mistaken but I think most new substitute powders are sugar based. Sugar based powders make great rocket fuel.

[@d.jensen5153]

@@russellkeeling4387 You may not have understood my comment. I'm not worried about pressure either. I'm saying that velocity is the integral of pressure and time. Lower pressure over longer time or higher pressure over shorter time - same result. He seemed to attribute Pyrodex' greater velocity to greater pressure. I'm saying that doesn't necessarily follow. Entiendes Mendes?

[@TonyFreeman-LocoTonyF]

I like your channel. 👍

[@joep4235]

great vid, thanks so much!!! it was fun to see black powder velocities !!

[@GunsOfTheWest]

You’re welcome! Thanks, as always, for watching!

[@russellkeeling9712]

I have in years past used a .36 cal. navy colt and found if I used Crisco over the bullets it would cut the fouling and I could fire far more shots without having to turn the cylinder by hand.

[@classicrecordings]

I'd be curious as to the results in a shorter barrel where the black powder will burn faster, and the Pyrodex may not have the barrel length to burn fully.

[@jnw60]

Is there any difference in loading cartridges with pyrodex vs BP? With covid Im running low of BP but can still find pyrodex.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

Pyrodex is fine also. I just wouldn’t use it in brass-frame guns because it’s a bit hotter than black powder.

[@grouchinator3384]

B

[@wcgrant5065]

Great info. Thanks! It's channels like yours that help educate and give me the confidence to try out these guns myself. Pyrodex is all i can seem to get. I wonder; if you slightly reduced the load for the Pyrodex , do you think the grouping might be more inline with the black powder groups on the target?

[@denisdegamon8224]

Try ordering direct from a Black Powder manufacturer, like Powder Inc. In Louisiana. I order my powder in bulk lots to save money on the Hazmat fee. Ends up being alot less per pound. You can order as little as five pounds or a half case of ten pounds...max of a twenty pound case.

[@mrgrendel9781]

Dustin do they make lemat revolvers that do not require black powder to fire

[@ianhale4466]

They make a cartridge version, it is ridiculously large and bulky, think the shot is .20 gauge, and it uses .45 long colt i believe. They are extremely rare, ,mostly because noone wanted to buy such a weird feeling pistol

[@montanamountainmen6104]

A+, well done.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

Thanks very much!

[@ianhale4466]

The big difference is cleaning..

[@danlewis228]

And triple 7????

[@GunsOfTheWest]

I have videos on that too.

[@stektirade]

Where's your volume measuring data?

[@GunsOfTheWest]

I’m not sure what you mean. Are you asking where I get the info on how much to load? If so, it’s mostly just trial and error. As long as you don’t leave air space between the powder and projectile, black powder is forgiving enough that you can experiment quite a bit with the loads.

[@waynejones3428]

Thanx !

[@greggwoods7173]

Good video. Noticed you kept looking off to your right... it happens. But good info.

[@GunsOfTheWest]

My iPad on the shooting table shows the chronograph results in real time. That’s what I’m looking at.

[@SkyBrigidRain]

I can't wait for my pyrodex to arrive!!! I'm gonna have tons of fun reloading!!!

[@disturbeddemons1]

Let it be known that the stuff is a hell of a pain to clean

[@SkyBrigidRain]

@@disturbeddemons1 Actually I love breaking down my weapons to clean them! And it's pretty much mandatory for my Henry AR7 Survival rifle. The BP in those tiny cases is filthy!!! I'm wanting to see if the non-chlorinated brake cleaner does better than gun cleaner. I keep hearing good things about it!!!

[@disturbeddemons1]

@@SkyBrigidRain I enjoy the act of cleaning itself but it's definitely less enjoyable when I'm cleaning pyrodex over black powder. I've used many cleaners and have found balistol with water to work the best but pyrodex is still a pain to clean. Pyrodex is cheaper (for my area anyway) and much more common than black powder so I prefer it for those reasons but black powder is a good bit easier to clean. Moose milk (water and balistol) basically melt black powder residue but there's still a bit of manual force necessary with pyrodex.