Black Sabbath Rhino Hi-Fi, UK WWA compared

[@Diesel65-tl3zv]

I got an unnumbered copy sounds excellent, love your channel the approach of talking about these records like we would amongst our friends is a breath of fresh air some of these KZbin reviewers are getting a little smuggish, keep up the great work !

[@RocknRonni]

@@Diesel65-tl3zv thank you very much my friend. Most encouraging words very much appreciated. If you're new to the channel you might want to check out some of my other videos I've been doing this for over 10 years now.

[@Baz63]

I could not agree more. Ron was my initiation into the vinyl community and remains my go-to guy.

[@RocknRonni]

Thanks my friend always look forward to your commentary on my videos.❤​@@Baz63

[@prossart35]

Totally agree! Ron is the best. I feel like I’m in his living space with him, having a beer!

[@RocknRonni]

@@prossart35 Man wouldn't that be great anytime my friend You're always welcome

[@blackwax6564]

Hi Ron,great to see you keep on rolling....the other day I was listening to Liquid Sound Company and remembered your video that featured it. Cheers Ron

[@RocknRonni]

@@blackwax6564 very nice to have veteran subscribers remember those great recordings like liquid sound company. That's an obscure record nobody knows about except you and me. 😎 Although I did have quite a few folks ask who the music was in the background of that video. So good to hear from you Thanks for your enlightened post.

[@thevinylmuseum2958]

Rockin' Ron is back! I agree with you on the WWA PRESSING. I have the Artisan USA, WWA, and The Rhino High Fidelity versions and I prefer the older copies. Depending on my mood, I still go back between the Artisan and WWA. Good to see you are doing well. Cheers from Canada.

[@RocknRonni]

@@thevinylmuseum2958 yeah I forgot to mention I was living in Winnipeg when I bought that WWA press at the time.

[@latheofheaven]

Excellent comparison Ron! You need to check out the 1st Japanese pressing of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, many really praise it as the very best. I took a chance because I was reading so many fantastic comments about it and I found a nice seller and got a good, clean one for about $70. And WOW! yes, does it sound amazing. Very dynamic and punchy. Many consider it the best pressing of that album. Also, if you really like that original UK Vertigo sound, I'm pretty dang sure you would like the WWA UK pressing of Vol. 4. The 2011 Rhino that you have is probably the one done by Chris Bellman and I have that one too. It is very good! But the WWA pressing has more of the low, dark Vertigo sound that you seem to like. I have both, and although the Chris Bellman is very well done, for Sabbath I really prefer the heavier, darker sound of the Vertigo pressings, which as you know the WWA pressings use the same plates. There is only ONE legitimate WWA pressing of Vol. 4 on Discogs that is actually available. I believe it is labeled as a 'Misprint' That is the one you want.

[@RocknRonni]

@@latheofheaven you know 10 years ago these WWA pressings were a lot cheaper it's hard to get them now at a reasonable price just about like anything else. But compared to The vertigo swirl they are a bargain, but then of course you don't have the bragging rights for that beautiful vertigo. thank you very much for your insights and your learned knowledge on these subjects and how the records sound. Hope all is well my friend take care. I always look forward to your post

[@latheofheaven]

@@RocknRonni I think I recently got a pretty clean WWA Vol. 4 from a seller in the UK on Discogs shipped for about $55 or so.

[@malcolmsansom5026]

Ive really enjoyed listening to you and your comparisons thank you

[@RocknRonni]

@@malcolmsansom5026 thank you Malcolm I really enjoyed listening to your encouraging comments thank you so much.

[@vinylrichie007]

It is amazing how durable records are if you take care of them.

[@RocknRonni]

Hey Richie glad to see you Thanks for visiting it is truly amazing I have so many old records that still play like new. Now some of those '80s records not so durable but same rule applies if you take care of them they last forever.

[@DalstonVinyl]

I have a compilation LP culled from the first 2 or 3 albums, issued on Melodiya in Soviet Russia in the early 80s, and it sounds phenomenal, a step up from any Sabs album I've ever heard...I believe EMI Abbey Road did the mastering and metalwork using DMM...I HIGHLY recommend it, extraordinary quality. Copies are relatively inexpensive too, I paid about £15 for mine, in VG+ about 6 years ago. Cheers from London everyone!

[@RocknRonni]

@@DalstonVinyl very interesting never heard of such a thing Thanks so much for your information Cheers bro

[@DalstonVinyl]

@@RocknRonni I checked discogs, theres lots of label variants, all probably the same master...it was actually released in 1990. Good luck!

[@dimebagdave77]

Alright! The final word in my book🤘 i got creative recently on my channel. Many thanks for such a great review Ron

[@RocknRonni]

Nice work Dave and thanks for the high praise. Your opinion always highly regarded and most appreciated.

[@peterrech2307]

Hi Ron, just a note about record misting. The misting of records may well be caused by the Shrink Wrap. The majority of shrink wrap materials are made from PVC which could well be a major cause of the misting. I had a double album that was in shrink, had HDPE inner and outer sleeves and had misting on both albums on the outer groove sides only. I am removing all of the shrink-wrap from all of my albums that have shrink on them and I suggest everyone does the same. I would also avoid the PVC inner and outer sleeves too, just in case.

[@prossart35]

Thanks Ron! Need to replace my swirl I sold. It was only VG condition with too many pops for me. I see the WWA is going for over a hundred now and the numbered Rhino you can pick up for $79 now in Mint. Think I’ll have to choose that route. Especially since my stereo setup is not particularly high end.

[@VIDSTORAGE]

About 3 months ago I went into small town antique thrift store that sells records and came across a WB 1871 US pressing Green label Black Sabbath first album ..At first look and no barcode I assumed it was the later palm tree version and the cover was in far too good of shape ..It was the green label and the Warner ad sleeve is like new and the vinyl looked mint and with a 20 usd price sticker ,so I got it ..Who ever bought it new probably just recorded it on tape and and did not play the album over a dozen times ..Old rock records like that are hard to just find in fairly good shape .. This was a album I thought I would never find in a antique store in near mint shape and I assumed I would be paying at least 100 or more on Discogs ..I cleaned the record with L Art Du Son and wow that brought it all out.. The sound is great but I never heard a UK version but I looked at avid recently an according to this guys opinion those original US greens are close to the Vertigos in quality but the sound is not quite as hot as the UK Vertigo originals are ..

[@RocknRonni]

@@VIDSTORAGE wow that was an amazing find. biggest trouble with the original Black Sabbath records is there always tore up because they were party records, to find an original basically original condition for $20 is the proverbial yeah I've got a my sons old Chevy in the garage for sale it turns out to be a like new 1963 Corvette for $500. A lot of people prefer the original US WB to either the UK or the rhino is a very good sounding version. congratulations.

[@VIDSTORAGE]

@@RocknRonni Ha ha lol the album searches are usually goes that the classical records will be in far better shape than the old rock records that stayed at the party too long but you still will find some great ones that were taken care of..I found a great near mint of Bee Gees Odessa in super great shape as well for about 20 from antique store also 1st US pressing.. ..Thanks and congrads to your finds as well sir and keep on searching ..

[@dimebagdave77]

I was lucky enough to find an EX WLP Warner U.S. og many years ago right here in town. I love these Rhinos, but im good to go also🤘✌️

[@RocknRonni]

Dave I watched quite a few videos on this record while I was listening to my copy of course I got mine late I got the second run so this record's already been out for a couple months and a lot of folks like your version the best so you're probably good to go Thanks for watching my friend enjoyed your video Thanks for letting me know about it.

[@corporalcornealiaspheffer8296]

Good to see ya Ron ✊🏽

[@RocknRonni]

@@corporalcornealiaspheffer8296 thank you very much my friend much appreciated.

[@R3TR0R4V3]

Hmm, Interesting! I have a NM copy of this WWA pressing too, as well as a US Greenie Artisan pitman pressing, and this new Rhino HiFi.. Tough call, but I think I liked the Greenie the best. The Rhino wasn't far behind though, depending on the song. I kind like the extra "clarity" at times. 😅🤷 Different strokes for different folks I guess. They're all great but different though, and would be happy with any of the 3, if I could only have 1. That said, I'd say it's still worth picking up this Rhino hifi, while it's still in print. 🍻

[@RocknRonni]

@@R3TR0R4V3 thank you very much for your insights most appreciated.

[@frankvanhelvert6231]

glad to see you back ron!!

[@RocknRonni]

@@frankvanhelvert6231 thank you very much Frank. Appreciate the encouraging words.

[@analoguecity3454]

Hey Buddy, George here! Wonderful video!😊

[@RocknRonni]

@@analoguecity3454 well thank you very much George. I appreciate the encouraging words. So glad you enjoyed the video. Hope everything's going your way my friend.

[@hectorchrest2388]

Good to see you back-

[@RocknRonni]

Thank you Hector Hope everything's going your way my friend. Thanks for visiting and watching most appreciated Glad you enjoyed the video.

[@johnbrazzell9469]

I have a wwa pressing I believe it's from 1973 and it still sounds incredible but a record that is 50 years old is kind of hard to believe it doesn't have some surface noise where are the new high Fidelity rhino is dead quiet That's why Us record collectors are always trying to find the best sounding copy

[@RocknRonni]

@@johnbrazzell9469 now that you've made me think about it. a lot of that quietness comes from the turntable and the stylus in the groove when I made the upgrade to the origin live clipso turntable I lost a lot of surface noise that I had on My records and I believe my previous turntable the records were quieter. this record may sound noisier on someone else's turntable. My cleaning regiment gets my record squeaky clean. on occasion when I do buy a used record I've had some pretty noisy ones and after cleaning them they don't have the surface noise anymore. most of that noise is just dirt in the groove. I remember. I had a friend over and had an extra copy that I had purchased at a garage sale of supertramp crime of the century. I played it at my house for him and it was dead quiet. I was using a audio Technica OC9 ML moving coil cartridge he was using a sure V15 mm cartridge on Linn sondack turntable when we went over to his place he put it on his turntable and The record had an incredible amount of surface noise you should have seen the look on his face when he heard the record for the first time. I also couldn't believe how noisy the record was we had just listened to it. and I said bro you heard it at my house The record was quiet it sounded great. That's whrn I realized how important your cartridge choices are and when I moved up from the origin live Aurora to the origin live Calypso my records got a lot quieter I was using the exact same tone arm and cartridge I just got a different turntable and the records were quieter. And you're right The WWA pressing is from 1973 another subscriber mentioned that as well so it's from 1973 you know it has 1970 on the label so as they all would because that's the original release date so I'm now realizing the record is from 1973. Thanks for your great question I'm going to have to try to remember that and use it in one of my videos because that's interesting information about surface noise. And in thinking about you made me realize why the record is so quiet. Another thing when I first got my spin clean i was using the soap my records were noisier after I finished cleaning them and I realized the soap wasn't coming off the record by just drying them with a cloth. Of course some folks after watching the video said their records don't have any noise on them when they use the soap while cleaning their records with the spin clean. And they said I was wrong. Not realizing it all depends on your system.

[@johnbrazzell9469]

You and I have a lot in common I'm originally from Los Angeles now I live in Nashville I've been collecting records since 1964 the first record I bought when I was 9 years old was Beach boys concert right before the Beatles became popular as a young kid I didn't buy toys I bought records and black light posters I now have 12 sound systems in my man cave mostly vintage high-end like you I have a collection that's worth a lot of money the records have gone up in value in the last 50 years plus I am very well aware of how to remove surface noise and I've seen your awesome system and knew it was quality that would play the best sound as possible I buy a lot of audio file quality records to enjoy the new technology of the best sound you can possibly buy and you probably experienced the same thing I do a lot of it is hit and miss but the new high Fidelity rhino Black Sabbath I have a numbered copy the sound quality of a new remastered that is done right to me sounds better than a 50-year-old plus record by the way I've been watching your videos since the beginning rock on bro

[@RocknRonni]

@@johnbrazzell9469 hey John really enjoyed your message got me to thinking when I was a kid I didn't buy toys either I bought records and I bought model cars that I could put together that's two main things that I would buy with my allowance and babysitting money and such. As far as the rhino Hi-Fi you know Mike Esposito over at the ingroove have you seen his stereo system, yeah his subwoofers cost more than my whole stereo he likes the Rhino hi-fi the best then he said he likes the artisan and then third would be The vertigo. I watched a number of videos on this record and I'm probably in the minority but you know Patrick PBthal he did a video where he recorded the vertigo swirl and the rhino Hi-Fi and you could AB them and vote as to which one sounded better from what I understand about 70% folks said they liked the vertigo better so this whole thing I can't tell you why people think a certain pressing sounds better than others. This is one of those records that's not 100% in agreement as most of the reissues are when analog productions puts out a new remastered record it's a 100% in agreement everybody knows it's better than the original or previous best.

[@Baz63]

Many many thanks for all the information Ron. I was considering purchasing the Rhino version but decided on an alternative purchase. Glad i did after your expert commentary. As such i purchased the first five ZZ Top albums as a leather bound boxset and released by Rhino records and at a good price of £170 (except the added cost of import duty of £76.13...ouch). Only 2,000 made and remastered by Kevin Gray...sounds pretty good however the top-end is still a little too bright to my ears as per your Black Sabbath version.

[@RocknRonni]

@@Baz63 hey Barrie yeah it seems these rhino reissues on the rhino Hi-Fi have a signature sound which is a little bit less base than the originals and they're a little bit brighter than the originals but still very good sounding records I also bought the bad company record as you know and review forthcoming but it's kind of the same sound again. that ZZ top box sounds fantastic I do have for early ZZ top records from 2012 remastered by Kevin Gray and Pressed plated at RTI ones with the silver RTI stickers they sound absolutely phenomenal master tape sound on those records.

[@victorsthought]

I hope to talk more on this with you later !There is a even better sound that Tonys has done will need to get one more from them first .Thanks for posting a great video

[@RocknRonni]

@@victorsthought hello Victor!! I miss our chats, So good to hear from you. I hope all is well my friend. looking forward to some secret sauce.

[@franksmusic2880]

Good Morning Mr. Rodgers, I still prefer the green Warner brothers pressing even if I don’t listen to that kind of music anymore. 😆

[@RocknRonni]

@@franksmusic2880 there are numbers of folks who think of the three main pressings the UK the US and now the rhino reissue The US artisan green label is their favorite. Black Sabbath has to have that big bottom punch that the artisan delivers. Thank you so much for watching and leaving enlightened feedback.

[@jayedwards4787]

I thought the WWA would win- 1973 UK pressing with the Vertigo stampers - it’s still affordable and the best choice, unless you can afford the UK Vertigo . Saw where 45 RPM Audophile compared the original Vertigo Swirl UK and German with the WWA and he thought the WWA was excellent .

[@RocknRonni]

@@jayedwards4787 hello Jay thanks so much for your great information on the different pressings The German swirls are not as good as the UK swirls in every instance that I've ever had the occasion to audition them

[@theheepster]

@@RocknRonni Funny, UK and German are VO 6 Stampers

[@festersuncle6298]

I own a NM- NEMS, WB Green, WB Palm tree. NEMS is hotter, but all sound great. Paranoid "fried egg" German is my fave. Also own a German Vertigo, 1979 U S WB.

[@Dehumanizer3000]

pretty spot on with the differences between the masters, its the same with the CD masters with Warner vs Castle

[@RocknRonni]

Hey thanks so much for visiting and with the great insight on the difference on the CD Masters. appreciate your information Thanks my friend.

[@biffboffo]

Nice comparison. The first album is still a gap in my collection, one of the biggest I can think of.

[@RocknRonni]

@@biffboffo Good to hear from you my friend so glad you enjoyed the video.

[@7tardis7]

I did a shoot out over 30 years ago with a OG UK Verigo VS WWA and my thoughts were they were exactly the same!! (sold the Verigo kept the WWA oops!) Also Castle Communications NEMS I think used the WWA masters?

[@RocknRonni]

@@7tardis7 yeah I sold a lot of collectible records 10 years ago which have really gone up in price but I got the market price at the time and I purchased records for market price at the time which have now gone up so it's kind of all relative. Thanks for your information as I assumed the swirl and the WWA sound the same Thanks for confirming that. I can tell you the nems they don't sound very good but the castle does. The Castle sanctuary records they were remastered from the original master tapes. And that was in '06 before they started doing the digital records that they're doing today. Thank you so much for leaving such great feedback and such great information so helpful thank you.

[@charlesgund4812]

Aren’t the 2006 ones digitally sourced? I think I checked recently and they only had GZ matrix numbers I think and no mastering engineer so not sure how they were cut or if they were done in house? Any ideas on sourcing for those?

[@RocknRonni]

@@charlesgund4812 I did some checking and the castle sanctuary records that I have are from 2001 matrix number CHLP 117 handwritten in the dead wax and of course on the spine. I couldn't find anything conclusive on source material it's not mentioned this is very early The first time I remember hearing a digital record was 2014 the led Zeppelin reissues this is when we realized the old record companys that had been making millions on only producing CDs had abandoned making vinyl records got back into making records but use their digital technology to remaster the records because that's all they had at the time in their studios was for remastering tapes to make CDs. Even the 2010 2012 remasters at the time were from the original master tapes so and 2001 remember no one was buying records at this time That's why all those '90s records are so expensive hard to find records from 2001. And in 2001 it wasn't a thing to say it's from the original master tape because it was only always assumed it was from the tape that's how you made records in 2001. I believe they're from the original master tape. When you listen to the 2001 Castle reissues they sound phenomenal they sound just like the WWA pressings do they have the same Fidelity. The led Zeppelin remasters from 2014 were reported to be from the original master tapes but when I listen to them I said why does my record sound like a CD because you can tell when they're digitally remastered especially the older records. The castles from 2010 were even reported to be from the master tape but you know how that is yeah they make the digital copy from the master tape and this is at the time period when the big record companies were making digital records 2010.

[@BobbyGass5]

Say Ron.... I'm old school. Same as my ears. I want the original sound I listened too back when I first heard a tune so I look for og's or a very early repress. After the oil embargo when vinyl records weren't what they used to be in the mid 70s vinyl didn't sound the same to me. It wasn't as dynamic and seemed kinda muddy to me those later represses of my early records. To me all these represses of MOFI and those other specialty record company's everybody says are perfect for them leave me cold. I've no interest in them. I don't care if they say they sound better, I'm looking for the initial rush I got off a tune and that only comes with an an old album for me.... I guess you can call me prejudiced and bigoted when it comes to vinyl... LOL

[@RocknRonni]

@@BobbyGass5 hey Bobby thanks for stopping by and listening to me ramble on about records. Hope you're doing well my friend catch a big one for me.

[@MrFizzleGa]

First