Blacksmithing for Beginners - Twisting Bar Stock

Blacksmithing for Beginners - Twisting Bar Stock. This video describes the mechanics of twisting bar stock in the forge.

[@michaelday7890]

Thank you you are a blessing to a beginner I’m not able to send money but spreading the word of dfintheshop.

[@brianlawson3757]

Twisting was one of the early embellishments I tried out, along with making simple scrolls. My main focus has always been bladesmithing, but these skills are invaluable even in that vein. As a bonus, it's also very satisfying to see and feel that transformation. Awesome video!

[@TalRohan]

Water cooling is really important if you have a piece of stock that is tapered and you want to twist it....a tight twist on the point through to a wide one on the butt end can look cool but you still need to cool things otherwise you can twist the end off. Cooling as you go allows you to make a nice even twist throughout the taper making the overall profile a nice cone shape. Even twisting is also necessary if you ever have a go at making drill bits or those "new" drill type log splitters.

[@adamraski3707]

thx for this, the twist seems like it would work for knife, sword, or axe handle too

[@453421abcdefg12345]

This brings back memories of my neighbour in UK, he mounted a vice on the saddle of his large lathe, fixed an 1" square black iron bar in the 4 jaw chuck, and simply started the lathe ! To my amazement it gave a very nice even twist, and stayed straight.

[@mattmoore1311]

We twisted bars in high school using the same method. They do have a nice even twist. You can't get as tight of a twist though. I can spot machine bent bar easily. I don't look on it as "cheating", I see it as using the tools available to them, as long as they're not representing it as blacksmithing. If you heat the bar with a torch, while it's on the lathe, that's more of a fuzzy line, you are working it hot. There is a video out that's film from the 1920s showing two men forging shotgun barrels. They use a devise for twisting the pieces prior to wrapping them around a mandril and welding them. I find it all interesting.

[@bradymcphail9690]

Hey friend, another good one, learning a bunch! keep up the good work.

[@mauroji3978]

Grande professor. agradeço novamente suas aulas pois em meu pais essas coisas são muito dificeis de se encontrar, todos seus videos estão otimos.

[@davidduffy9806]

Cool!

[@mattmoore1311]

I have a tin can with a handle on it, the can has one hole punched in it. It lets me be very specific with where the water goes. It's not my idea, I don't remember where I learned it. There is a youtube, that's showing film from 1920s, of two Belgian smiths who're forging gun barrels. They use a devise to twist the skelps. It's clamped at both ends, with one clamp that allows rotation. One man twists, the other cools the twist with a tea kettle as it develops. The twisted skelps are then spiraled around a mandril and forge welded. I'll try and find a link, it's been put out by a knife maker who has also welded barrels in a similar fashion.

[@mattmoore1311]

Here is a link to what I think is the full film kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJKclZ-sh6moh7c

[@WG1807]

This is the main problem with hot twisting - uneven twists because of uneven heat. It then takes a lot of time to get it right. So ... have you ever tried cold twisting? For normal adult male strength you should be able to cold twist up to 12mm square bar - with a couple of bits of equipment. It is inevitable that a considerable degree of force is needed compared to hot twisting. You need to get things level and tight and be in the right position. Once you get it, it's surprisingly quick and easy. The main thing is that all your twists are consistent and EVEN, along the whole length. What you need is.... A stout bench vice with good jaws, mounted on the edge of a bench not too high. (I will check tomorrow) A support stand for the bar at the same height as the vice jaws. I made a stand which is a single upright, welded onto a piece of plate as the base. It has on the top a short piece of tube welded, horizontally, into which the end of the stock bar fits easily. This is just a guide to keep the bar end from wandering side to side as you twist. The stand itself keeps the bar level horizontally. . Guide tubes. These are pieces of tube, each representing a length of twist (I have 3", 4", 6". 10", 12" and 18" lengths), into which the bar stock fits. I found the best way is to find some tubing that the square bar stock won't quite fit into (so about 15mm internal bore) and then slit it carefully down the whole length with a thin slitting disc. The tube will then flex open a tiny bit to slide onto the stock but remain fairly snug. You can weld little arms on the sides of the tube for the purpose of tapping the tube on and off. The tube shouldn't be too thick - about 1.5mm wall thickness is ok, so it flexes slightly.. Light electrical conduit is ideal and there is a size (in the UK) that is good for this job. These guide tubes prevent the twisted area from 'snaking' - bending about into curves or S shapes. They keep the twists straight. The Twisting Wrench. I was fortunate enough to have a large old ratchet wrench, that is unusual in that it is a 'female' type. Instead of the usual square stub for accepting sockets, it is a square hole at 1/2 inch square, working via ratchet action. It is in fact like these fairly modern ratchet spanners, but instead of a hexagon or 12-point hole, it's a 1/2 inch square hole. I welded on a piece of bar as an opposing handle (making it double-handled or double-ended like you do with typical twisting wrenches). The square hole slides over the 12mm stock and you can twist some ways (I usually go about 90 degrees or a bit less) and then click back on the ratchet and go some more. I realise this sounds dodgy, twisting against the little ratchet and pawl in the mechanism, but you set the job up in such a position that if it slips you aren't going to crash your hand or any other part of yourself into the job or the bench etc. It's easier than it sounds. In the absence of such a ratchet, you would have to make a plain twisting wrench with the correct square hole - forge one. This would be slower at the job because you could twist 90 degrees, but would then have to remove the wrench and reorient it 90 degrees back, to be at the position to twist 90 degrees more, and so on. Or, you could have four handles, each at 90 degrees to the next so you can keep going. You need to be in the right position, bodily speaking, to exert the force comfortably and safely. The ratchet device is very quick and no removing the wrench from the bar. I do often slip a medium heavy tube over the wrench handle, as an extension for more leverage. It also gets you further out of the way of the job when the force is applied. That old ratchet has now been in use over 25 years and must have made a thousand twists or more in cold 12mm square bar. About 1 in 50 twists it may be that the parent bar stock tears (almost always at the edge of the vice jaws) and has to be discarded. It's just the occasional bit of bar - weak spots you are unlucky to select. I would be confident of being able to do a 12" long twist (in 12mm sq bar) at up to 3.5 revolutions - that is 1260 degrees of revolution. The twist would be perfectly even all along the length. What can often happen is slight bending at the points where the twist begins and ends - the vice jaws and the wrench location point (the other end of the guide tube). This is easily straightened with a rawhide or nylon hammer against a wooden block, or even carefully in the vice. I will take some pictures tomorrow and send them to you.

[@gateway8833]

I've been working on an idea to make a twisting fixture. For any profile that is not round stock, I'm thinking two parallel helix rods that will guide a shuttle down the entire length of the twisted stock. I may have an opportunity to build a fence with about 16, 000 feet of twisted rod and I really don't want to hand twist that much stock. I'm still pricing out the job and looking into if the cost of all ready twisted will be cost effective. Thanks for the vedio, I can see where I was making some mistakes.

[@gateway8833]

Brian Neeley Thank you Brian, I have seen that tool and it is very difficult to procure.

[@df-intheshop330]

I visited a shop once and this guy just had a pipe threading vise mounted to the floor and 20 ft away he had a truck differential driving a simple chuck made out of square pipe and some bolts. An electric motor was driving the wheel side of the differential and the chuck was mounted to the u joint bracket. It turned about 40 - 60 rpm and the bar just flopped around on the floor. I don't remember how he allowed for the twist making the bar shorter but it was pretty slick - very loud but it worked well.

[@alexkid69]

I have a question for you. I'm new to smithing and think to start that as a hobby. So in your experience will it be a good idea to use lava stones for a propane powered forge, for keeping the heat more in one place?

[@df-intheshop330]

I don't see how. Placing lava rocks in a conventional propane forge will not help to keep the heat in it will just reduce the amount of room the gas has to burn and that will lower the max temp you can achieve. Sometimes crushed bricks are used to lift small pieces of the floor of the forge to help the heat get around them and make them easier to handle but it doesn't help keep the heat in.

[@alexkid69]

Thank you very much for your answer! I see I had the wrong idea from the start. There aren't much blacksmiths weft in my area or even in the country. So it is hard to get a hands on experience, but i learned of a place neer by so I'll check it out soon. Your videos are very helpful to beginers like me. Thank you and I hope you keep making more of them.

[@AmateurForger721]

Do you have any suggestions on how to do a twist on a taperd bar?

[@df-intheshop330]

You will need to keep the hottest part of the heat at the thickest end of the taper to try to balance out the thin end wanting to twist first. Otherwise it's the same process - watch the twist developing & cool the areas that are twisting too fast.

[@AmateurForger721]

DF - In The Shop. Thank you. That was what I was thinking as well. Thanks for the help!

[@taylortaylor4902]

Show us how to forge a small boat anchor

[@df-intheshop330]

I have seen some in antique shops that look just like miniature ships anchors. Is that what you are thinking of or do you have something specific in mind?

[@taylortaylor4902]

I wanted to see how to forge a traditional boat anchor like a smaller version of what they had on old wooden ships