Blade Runner Brass Pad Patch Tutorial - Advanced Modulation Techniques with the DSI Prophet Rev2

[@CreativeSpiral]

This patch, along with 127 other patches are now available in my "VCM Soundset Patch Bank for Prophet Rev2". Available on Sellfy at sellfy.com/p/figZ/ This Blade Runner patch is also available for free download here: www.presetpatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

[@connorehman6949]

Hey man, just watched the video and bought the patches and wanted to say I'm a huge fan of your work and really appreciate this. I'm an aspiring sound designer and it can be hard to find people who are taking the deepest possible dive into the history of the topic so this was such a joy. Thank you!

[@CreativeSpiral]

@@connorehman6949 Thanks for the note, Connor! Hope you enjoy the patches! Cheers, Jason

[@RabbitintheMoon]

We are not worthy of your sound design genius... thank you for sharing your talents

[@alistairfletcher6187]

Rev 2 is the most powerful Prophet. To me, it's Dave Smith's parting gift. It's a keeper.

[@CreativeSpiral]

Yeah, its such a versatile and great sounding synth... one of my all time favs.

[@alistairfletcher6187]

@@CreativeSpiral Oh yes sir

[@rhythm.lounge]

This is absolutely incredible and genius! You are unlocking all of the potential of the Rev2 and thank you for sharing your findings with the world. Not all heroes wear capes!

[@MarioTorre]

This is one of the best tutorials I’ve seen about the rev2, well done!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks Mario!

[@kyleturgeonfilms]

agreed!

[@VictorC53]

Wow, I’ve severely under-utilised the modulation capabilities of my Rev2. The routing pressure through note number to scale the Lfo amount, I never would have thought of that

[@CreativeSpiral]

Yeah, the Rev2 mod matrix and gated sequencer are super powerful and flexible.

[@j3po784]

Absolutely brilliant.

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks @J3PO! - means a lot coming from you... big fan of your sound design and music! Cheers!

[@chapoteaukatz]

J3PO brought me here

[@johnconway698]

What a great idea to use the gated sequencer to introduce the modulation into the patch to recreate the inherent instability and movement of vintage analogue synths. The Rev 2 is fast becoming the best poly synth out there at the moment. So many sound design possibilities.

[@monsterjazzlicks]

Beautiful sound, Jason!

[@tripppayne8777]

Gotta hand it to Dave and team for deliberately including this capability, SoundTower for exposing it and your God given talent for exploiting it. Between this nugget on my Rev2, my OB-6 and an occasional D-50, my hardware needs are covered.

[@MokkaMusic]

it's a gem! so advanced ! thanks a lot!!

[@jsbachrachs]

This is absolutely amazing. I've had my rev2 for a couple months now and I was feeling constantly overwhelmed by where to even start, this is the first tutorial I've seen where I really "get" it now. Thanks so much for making this and for posting all the incredible content you make, this is a complete game changer!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks for the note, uhlexo! Glad you found it helpful!

[@jsbachrachs]

@@CreativeSpiral I'm definitely going to buy your patch collection as soon as I get back to a computer! Keep up the good work!

[@joncmusic4]

Absolutely amazing video. Wow. I feel like I understand my rev2 a little more now

[@tomphillpotts]

This is a masterclass in sound design (me being pretty new to synth sound design). Outstanding work, very easy to follow. Thanks!

[@highon3d]

Amazing sound design and instruction. I purchased the rev2 few weeks ago and started with sound design, so a lot is new to me. Got some basic down, but your video opens up to more understanding of modulation. Thanks for preparing this video.

[@Lassekake]

This is so helpful, thank you very much. Would be amazing if you made a modelling tutorial to mimic the Prophet 5 and/or Jupiter8!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks for the note Lasse! - I do have several patches I've designed with the P5 and Jup8 used as reference... they are in my VCM patch bank for sale. sellfy.com/p/figZ/ I'm planning on doing some more tutorials like this, and another video explaining the research process I did, with recording OBX, OBXA, P5, P10, CS-80, Jup-4, and Jup-8, etc... One interesting thing to note about the P5/P10 is that they use a per key voice assignment, which can't be exactly modeled with the Rev2... though modeling a five voice setup with intonation offsets captures the majority of the voice character.

[@Matthew1981]

@@CreativeSpiral MAKE THE VIDEO! (pls)

[@4FrameMusic]

Thank you *very* much for this tutorial. This was the last piece of information I needed to get my Prophet 08 sounding more organic and nuanced. I was able to replicate all of your steps up until I reached the 4 modulator lane maximum of the synth's engine. I couldn't get panning quite right, and since there's no separate shape modulation for saw oscillators I had a free mod & LFO lane that I used for pressure>mod>LFO4 to all osc freq for the pressure vibrato. The only difference I noticed was that with the Prophet 08, the fine tuning offset of -31 for both oscs was not matching precisely. But setting them to -25 was a perfect match. Again, thank you!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Glad you found it helpful! And thanks for reporting on P08 implementation.

[@NakulKrishna]

I knew there was a way with the matrix to give this synth that round robin randomness of classic synths but couldn’t figure out a workaround to the fine tuning thing. Thanks for this clear video and giving new life to an already beautiful synth.

[@vibelive6183]

the best tutorials I’ve seen about the rev2 !!!! Amazing Sound

[@passivehouseaustralia4406]

I would personally like to thank you for all the hard work you have invested in sharing these wonderful workouts for the rev2.

[@CreativeSpiral]

You bet! Glad you've found the vids helpful. Cheers!

[@comfysynth]

Very interesting tutorial. Thanks for posting.

[@olinbrownell]

Thank you so so much for this! I'm feeling better about buying the DCO Rev2 (arrives today) instead of shelling out for a vintage VCO (and potentially problematic) poly synth. And that patch is amazing!!

[@oriomenoni7651]

Just brilliant.... my hat off !! I wish I had a Rev2 even if just for this patch.

[@johnfraboni]

This was awesome, thanks for making this video! I hope you keep making more of these - super informative!

[@xil.sanctified]

Fantastic content -- learned quite a bit about the rev 2 and am looking forward to applying some of the techniques described here on patches I've developed. Look forward to additional content!

[@owenmusicstuff]

Wow this is an amazing resource!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks Owen! - glad you found it useful.

[@owenmusicstuff]

@@CreativeSpiral just programmed my rev2 alongside watching this and my patches already sound at least 7x better haha cheers

[@J-MLindeMusic]

You, Good Sir, are a genius. Going to do a deep dive into your channel...many thanks!

[@peterkadarmusic9728]

VERY well done! I love the idea of using the sequencer as an offset table. Brilliant.

[@nym053]

That's a crazy amazing trick. Fixes the sonic issues I sometimes have with this and other modern analogue synths.

[@ouzoman]

Well done Jason! Fantastic tutorial translating deliberate modulation into hugely musical results! I have to make time to test drive those templates! Looking forward to your next exploration - thanks for the great work!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks dude! I'll have more patch creation videos up soon. Also, looking forward to hearing what others create with voice modeling!

[@andersingram]

sick techniques ... thanks fpr the knowledge

[@studiodc1155]

Great tutorial - clearly spoken and well thought out. I'm quite familiar with synthesis for sound design and even I learned a few tips and tricks, especially when working with the Rev2. Thanks so much for the detailed, yet easy-to-follow presentation and all your work "mathing out" the Rev2's inscrutable parameters!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks! I've always been fascinated with the convergence of math and music. I love to just sit down and play and be absorbed by music -- but the inner geek in me is always unfulfilled until I understand how everything "adds up" to make the patch.

[@jeffersonjones7863]

Thanks for your great work! This is one of the best sound engineering videos I've ever seen, I mean it! I've just got a new Prophet so I hope you'll make more of these tutorials in the future!!!

[@saenzguy]

Thank you for this. Wow, makes total sense and never realized this was even a possibility. Looking forward to the random movement.

[@tolgayildiz1388]

Wow, i never heard the rev2 to sound this good. And thanks for the detailed documentation. It really makes sense; being able to digitally introduce micro variation to the dco's really opens them up. I've just purchased the preset pack. The inclusion of initialized patches is a nice touch. Can't wait to play them with the upcoming mpe update. Top level stuff!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks, Tolga! Hope you enjoy the VCM Sound Set! Cheers, Jason

[@davenapox5464]

Cool vid! interesting modulation routing, thanks for taking the time to do this!!!

[@9crutnacker985]

Interesting stuff, thanx.

[@maxhult830]

Wow, great emulation! And pedagogic instructions. While the Rev2 doesn't have a polyphonic aftertouch keyboard like the CS80, it can still receive these midi messages from external keyboards or controllers that do, for true polyphonic aftertouch expression/modulation a la CS80.

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks Max! I'm gonna have to explore Poly AT more. Have been considering getting a Roli Seaboard.

[@3avalny]

It's awesome! Thank you so much!

[@AnalogMonoxide]

Excellent stuff, packed with good information. Great if you boost the volume a little, especially on your voice.

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks! Will boost mic next vid.

[@jimmygray3452]

This is an amazing approach! At first I thought maybe you were trying to reinvent the wheel in regards to introducing some sort of slop functionality, but this is a way more granular approach -- Sequential should hire you!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks Jimmy. I've made some suggestions on Sequential forum... sounds like they will be implementing some voice modeling into future products.

[@zerocrossing]

Brilliant! I used to do similar tricks with my Tetras. Damn, it was a mistake to ditch those. 🤦‍♂️

[@t3brzoza]

Very inspiring! I can't wait for some free time to trying Your tips.

[@chapoteaukatz]

wow this is amazing. wish I could do this with my p12

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks Ben! yeah, unfortunately, the P12 doesn't have the same mod sequencer capabilities.

[@chapoteaukatz]

@@CreativeSpiral Interestingly enough, it seems like a lot of synths that could implement this VCM programming already have VCOs and might not be necessary to do it on. Do you have a list lying around anywhere of other synths that can achieve this? Seems like most of the Sequential DCO synths can... maybe the Mutable Ambika as well. Anything else come to mind?

[@CreativeSpiral]

@@chapoteaukatz Any synth that offer "Voice Number" or "Per Key Random" as a mod source can do voice modeling to some degree at least... Moog One, Behringer Deepmind, upcoming Arturia PolyBrute. The Prophet Rev2 (and Prophet 08) just happen to have the most advanced capabilities on the market, due to the extremely flexible mod sequencer setup... you can model a huge amount of per-voice detail with Rev2/08. I'm hoping next generation of hardware synths from a variety of manufacturers will offer per-voice offset tables as a standard option. Voice modeling can even be beneficial for modern VCO synths, which do have some "built in" imperfections to tuning and other parameters, but are generally but better tamed than counterpart VCO polys from the golden age of synths (70s/80s). The recent release of the Prophet 5/10 rev4 uses per-voice modeling techniques via the new "vintage knob". Seq has not divulged the exact recipe they are using, but the vintage knob is definitely dialing in per-voice offsets to tuning, and envelope ADR timing, which are the two biggest voice modeling attributes to capture classic character. With other modern VCO synths, if you want to be able to dial in MemoryMoog character or OBX character, you can use these techniques as well. I'm on the list for the PolyBrute... looking forward to applying voice modeling with that VCO poly beast! Given its architecture and filter choices, it should be able to capture a lot of classic MemoryMoog character and possibly CS-80/CS-60 type of character.

[@chapoteaukatz]

@@CreativeSpiral Polybrute is also the upcoming synth I’m most excited about - and I already have a MXB! Can’t wait until they start shipping

[@CreativeSpiral]

@@chapoteaukatz Me too!... very excited for it, and it will definitely be capable of voice modeling! I actually sold my MxB to make room... was expecting PB to have arrived by now... but... delays... sounds like we'll have to wait 'til January.

[@JosefFerger]

nice ! thanks

[@vanmccalister3345]

I already loved my Rev 2 but I'm realizing there's a lot more to love. Thank you so much for sharing the benefits of all your hard work, what a service! This might be a dumb question, I've only had the synth a few months, but is the voice modeling possible without the editor? I ask because I have the Rev 2 in a separate room from the work station as a simple "turn it on and get creative" instrument. Many thanks and one new sub.

[@CreativeSpiral]

Yes, you can set this up without the editor... A while back I wrote up some instructions here: forum.sequential.com/index.php?topic=3450.0 Also, you can download my free patch templates here: www.presetpatch.com/user/creativespiral (if you filter for "VCM" you'll see all the voice modeling templates and patches.

[@Captivatebeats]

Amazing work on this! Would love to grab the patch if possible!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks Alex! I uploaded the patch here (BRS_Vangel_VCM.syx) along with some other patches. www.presetpatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

[@jimmygray3452]

Also, I'm wondering if you're envisioning an implementation which allows a user to select (or create) different voice character "profiles", e.g. one that is reminiscent of an early Prophet, or one that's like an Oberheim, etc. Additional parameters like "warm-up time" and "environmental conditions" could be used to emulate those variables as well.

[@CreativeSpiral]

I wrote up a paper on the topic with a bunch more technical information about Voice Modeling and future implementation. Check out www.VoiceComponentModeling.com if you want some more in depth info. (toward the bottom of the page I discuss possible implementations of voice profiles)

[@mybiggrin]

Thank you. Tried doing this without the program and just on the synth, but the coarse gate values you have listed are really screwing up the tuning of each key strike without it, and I ran out of mod routings. I guess I'll have to buy the software.

[@erbbbify]

Hello professor- I found your tutorial to be extremely comprehensive, and the results!! Fantastic!! I just got my hands on a Rev2 and I love it. Question- are you using the 16 voice module? It sure sounds like it...I realize you were recreating the 8 voice CS-80 patch using the gated seq.- but it sounded so vast...outboard effects? Performance magic? Also, is the oscilloscope a separate app? I apologize if these answers are contained within your tutorial- I may have missed these details...anyway, thanks, and keep up the great work!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the vid. The unit I have is a Rev2 16-voice keyboard, but you can do the same type of techniques on 8-voice as well... You might get some voice stealing with pad type of sounds with long release times if combining with layering/stacking on 8-voice version though. No outboard effects.... just built in. Between the voice modeling, and the stereo stacking, the Rev2 is capable of creating huge soundscapes. The oscilloscope is JO Oscilloscope in Ableton Live.

[@NigDub]

Hope to recreate something like this on the pro2 (mono of course)

[@iApAchy]

I'm interested in downloading the patch if it's still available, great video!

[@CreativeSpiral]

No prob - Shoot me your email and I'll send you some example patches using voice modeling (and this Blade Runner patch).. my email is jason at jasoncooper dot com

[@iApAchy]

@@CreativeSpiral That sounds amazing, thanks. I'll send it over now.

[@django-music]

Are you using the Soundtower VST in Ableton or the standalone editor?

[@CreativeSpiral]

The standalone.

[@MichaelJohnsonR]

This is fantasic, I want to try some of these techniques on my prophet 08! Can you elaborate on modeling acoustic instruments this way? I'm particularly interested in mandolin, guitar, viola, violin atm. I don't understand how you would apply this process to acoustic sounds.

[@CreativeSpiral]

Thanks Michael! Yeah, its been confirmed that these techniques work on the P08 as well. If you check out www.VoiceComponentModeling.com/vcm.aspx, I wrote up a fairly extensive article on the topic. These techniques work amazing for acoustic instrument modeling. I've built dozens of really organic sounding plucks, string ensembles, wind instruments, and organ patches. I'm gonna be releasing a bank of 128 patches for Rev2 soon, and will be posting more videos with examples of acoustic instruments as well. Subscribe to channel and mark the bell for notifications. Also, if you check out the Sequential Rev2 forum, there's a topic that has some more info.

[@informationsuperkhan]

What oscilloscope is that? The yellow one. Looks so rad

[@CreativeSpiral]

Both scopes are Max4Live plugins for Ableton: This is the XY Oscilloscope: maxforlive.com/library/device/2713/oscilloscope-v2 And the standard scope is JO osc: maxforlive.com/library/device/1918/jo-floating-oscilloscope

[@informationsuperkhan]

@@CreativeSpiral You rule. Thanks

[@mulkytool]

I am cornguy on the forum, I really appreciate this video, had no idea about this extra way to do modulation. Is having it set a bit off from 62 for each voice, and then the fine tune to -31 around where I'm always going to want to be for this effect? I ask because I dont think Ill always have it set up with a program to tell me how much I'm out of tune. thanks again :)

[@CreativeSpiral]

Hey - Yeah, in this setup, those are the correct numbers to use. There is also another method where you can create intonation-based offsets which use different scaling. The whole point of the -31 value is just to bring the tuning back to centerpoint, since the gated sequencer/modulation is pulling each voice/osc out of tune. Check out my profile on PresetPatch for some free template patches you can use to build your own sound designs. Also, there's several other VCM patches, including this Blade Runner Vangelis style patch. www.PresetPatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

[@countingsheeple2428]

Sorry for the noob question but, is this with software only, or do you have the rev2 module out of view?

[@CreativeSpiral]

Yeah, I have the keyboard off to the side. You can do all of this through the keyboard (or desktop) interface. I have just found that using the Soundtower editor is quicker, and is a great tool for patch design (and demonstrations).

[@countingsheeple2428]

@@CreativeSpiral OK, awesome. Is the Soundtower editor made my Sequential(formerly DSI) or is it 3rd party?

[@saltlake1955]

I was so hyped for this but I feel like my rev 2 just behaves strangely compared to what I see here. For instance, the pan spread knob does nothing on mine - literally nothing. Regardless of whether I'm just turning the knob or whether I try the modulation technique shown here, there is zero difference to the sound, so I can't seem to get that huge, wide stereo field. I wonder if I have a defective unit...

[@CreativeSpiral]

Make sure that both stacked layers have Misc Params > Pan Mode set to FIXED. If it's in alternate mode, the panning behaves differently. Next, check to make sure that one layer has a mod slot set to DC > PAN: -32, and the other is set to DC > PAN: +32 If still not working, try updating to latest firmware 1.1.5.9.9 and run Reset Globals and Calibration.

[@CreativeSpiral]

Also note: Don't use the built in "Pan Spread Knob" in the amp section for this type of fixed panning... use mod slots with DC>Pan +/-32

[@saltlake1955]

@@CreativeSpiral Thanks for this, but yeah everything is set up exactly as yours is but the effect, if present at all, is barely noticeable. In your video the panning makes a massive difference to the sound that just isn't present on mine. If I had a way to visually see if anything is being panned I would bet that there is nothing actually happening at all. The only way I can get an approximation of your sound is to hard pan the left and right output signals within Ableton. I've had a look on the Sequential forum to see if this is a known issue but haven't found anything.

[@saltlake1955]

Okay so I just bought your bank to see if your preset would have the same issue, and it does. I still need to do panning within Ableton to get the effect. It must be my unit or my settings. Side note: I noticed on the few presets from your bank that I've loaded so far, a lot of them have values entered into the gated sequencer but the destinations are set to "OFF". Any ideas?

[@CreativeSpiral]

Hey @@saltlake1955 One more thing you might wanna check is that you're using the Main Stereo Outputs from the back of the Rev2, and not the sub outputs. Unplug anything from Sub B outs, and see if that fixes it. Also, check that Multi Mode is set to Off in your Globals menu. If none of the above resolves it, I would recommend updating to latest OS, then running the Reset Globals and Calibration routines on your unit. And if an issue still persists, then definitely get in touch with Seq tech support. The gated sequencer lanes are purposely set that way... the Rev2 has no easy way to target Osc Fine Tuning (only course freq), so the patches use a trick I discovered where you can scale down values by using the gated sequencer and assigning the target/destination via mod slots. (you will see some mod slots routing Seq1 to Osc1 Freq and Seq2 to Osc2 Freq... that's where they are assigned, and values scaled appropriately... If you check out my Blade Runner VCM video, I discuss the setup in more detail).

[@1000000ians]

Was this demo done on an 8 voice or 16 voice rev 2?

[@CreativeSpiral]

The unit I have is a Rev2 16-voice keyboard, but you can do the same type of techniques on 8-voice as well... You might get some voice stealing with pad type of sounds with long release times if combining with layering/stacking on 8-voice version though.

[@genr3Rator]

This is "wizard stuff' but interesting to watch and what that synth is capable of.

[@soulieobelissevan]

Hi thanks so much for this video. Seems like the REV2 is one powerful synth. Looks like when stacking A+B one is likely to need the 16 voice version correct?

[@CreativeSpiral]

Hey Louise - You can stack with the 8-voice version, however, it reduces your polyphony down to 4 voices played at a time... which is fine for many patches. But yes, I would recommend the 16-voice version, if you really want to leverage the stacking for complex sounds or binaural stereo sound design.

[@CreativeSpiral]

@@soulieobelissevan Definitely! I programmed a stack VH JUMP patch using voice modeling. Check it out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZ3IgmWBp7Nrfrs&t=218

[@cazalorganism7020]

“Modeling a memorymoog on a bad day” lmao 💀

[@4afoxx]

Very good Tutorial and I love the sound creations of Vangelis 👍👍👍 if you would be so Kind to Provide me the Patch I would be very glad. Just today my new rev-2 was delivered and it sounds so brillant 😀👍 A super fat Synth. Greetings from Germany, Achim (4aFox)

[@CreativeSpiral]

Just noticed I didn't respond to this comment. Sorry! Can't recall if we had other correspondence, but I did upload this patch (BRS Vangel VCM) and some others here: www.PresetPatch.com/user/creativespiral