5 EXTINCT Car Engines We'll Never See Again!

5 EXTINCT Car Engines We'll Never See Again! Why Don't Cars use V14 Engines? Why are V5 Engines so hated? Why did the W8 Engine Disappear? What is an H-Engine? Find out those answers and many more in this video!
Also I am not joking. I will build every variation of Piston Engine possible in Minecraft if you guys actually are willing to watch it. I will also try my best to even balance them and get a working firing order. I'm thinking of doing a V8 Engine as my first showcase, with Boxers and Flats being another.
Also to any mad lad who actually makes an Inline 15 or V18 in real life, I salute you. Godspeed. Good luck on finding a long enough and strong enough crankshaft to turn a 15 cylinder engine though HAHA!
The Starship featured is the Regallic Conquest II from Roaming Heartz, an original IP I've been working on since 2012. Fun fact, my Channel name and icon were actually supposed to reference this Series I've written...truth be told. I'm somewhat happy things played out the way they did. There's no way with my mental maturity in 2016, would I have done the right thing with my Intellectual Property, given my newfound fame then. Sometimes life is rough, but that roughness has sharpened me. My dream has become clearer as a result. I was planning on launching it in March. Shame my birthday already passed...but a Victory sure would be nice. Someday soon, hopefully within the next year. You will see the actual Namesake of this Channel and the beautiful Vehicle I built associated with it. Fighter Jets, Corvettes, all cheap lies and discounted dreams since I was scared I never had the ability to truly imagine a Bladed Angel properly. I'm done feeling sorry for myself, I'm done taking discounted dreams, and I'm done running away from what I've left behind.
I'm glad I never became a Super Car Vlogger.
MY INSTAGRAM! / bladed_angel
MY TWITTER! / bladed__angel
DISCLAIMER:
Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing."
The materials are used for illustrative and exemplification reasons, also quoting in order to recombine elements to make a new work.

[@Qunia]

Ok so now the question is, What kind of car can i fit a H-24 engine in?? I need to know for research purposes.

[@beanboy6934]

throw it in the bed of a pickup and make it fwd

[@BladedAngel]

Anything fits if you're brave enough. AKA just weld a frame and wheels aroudn a H24 engine HAHAHA. Comfy interiors? Trunk for storage? NAH, 90% ENGINE LESGO

[@smol_sinon]

A miata of course (I am sorry for using this overused joke)

[@shawnr6117]

Likely any pre WW2 car with a v16 because those engines were huge. Truly a case of "there's no replacement for displacement". Sometimes they had more car in front of the firewall than behind it, and a lot of them mounted the front axle ahead of the engine so they have pretty good weight distribution.

[@theitalianjojo3440]

Probably a semi.

[@Kommisar_Lutter]

H24 engine is pretty much 4 6-cylinder engines, and those are pretty well balanced, so it makes sense.

[@BladedAngel]

6-cylinder OP. The Final Evolution. Peak Piston Engine Balance. When it all comes to an end, the final light we will see will be an Inline 6 Igniting it's cylinder and creating a new big bang all over again.

[@marmedalmond9958]

0:46. Bocchi the engine piston

[@BladedAngel]

LMAO I just now noticed the color similarities!

[@kdesikdosi5900]

lmao now i can't unsee it

[@user-lq5nh1hm1x]

(INTENSE ENGINE ANXIETY NOISES)

[@Only_Ameen04]

​@@user-lq5nh1hm1x (SHAKING UNCONTROLLABLY)

[@kevaljcchauhan435]

BRM really got drunk and instead for a traditional engine layout like a V12, they were like why not put 2 flat 8's and make it a wild engine cus why not.

[@bocahdongo7769]

On top of already many stories of H-engine actually a failure during WW2. Yep, H-24 was so failed, they just straight up redesign the entire plane to accommodate existing V12 instead It's like those KZbin commenter that keep saying "Maybe, juuuustttt maybe with current technologies we can make H-engine more reliable."

[@雪狐-c7k]

R.I.P. rotary engine (also 1.9TDi)

[@sirhamsteralot3977]

Rotary engine is in current production cars though

[@lightchips6164]

Rotaries are being used

[@jerry8826]

@@sirhamsteralot3977which one?

[@spnowy9834]

​@@jerry8826 it's a SUV, cx-30 r-ev it uses rotary as range extender

[@zapalexa]

@@spnowy9834 Mazda MX 30, not CX 30 iirc

[@prithamj9074]

H16 engine was wild💀💀

[@marnidy]

That’s excactly what i thought When i got the notification

[@yure_mum12]

They had them in f1 cars

[@Epicgamerboy-li4rv]

skibidi toilet

[@crepeenjoyer]

@@Epicgamerboy-li4rvcringe

[@LilTachanka]

ask the Germans of the mid 40s

[@marnidy]

What are your thoughts on the new bugatti with the v16 being unveiled on 20th of june?

[@BladedAngel]

Very excited for it! I think it will be the only Production V16 currently in production when it comes out! IT's been a while since a car used a V16!

[@acenewholland564]

⁠v16, the only engine which I never heard being ruined by clowns😅

[@haydonrodriguez6199]

V16 big

[@marnidy]

@@BladedAngel Yeah it’s very exciting!

[@Thri11seeker]

​@@BladedAngelI've done it in automation for years it's so easy

[@Fr3ddyM3hrCurry]

Funny thing is that the Actual V5 engine that was used in the honda racebikes had perfect primary balance because they basically build an unballanced V4 and the extra piston created an oposite imbalance makeing the engine balance perfect. Driving4Answers has a great video explaining exacly how that engine was balanced👌

[@kaizer_0425]

9:04 the initial d reference was perfect😂

[@joeythreeclubs]

Mmm ha ha ha ha cool vibrations

[@MARCM0DE]

Know what we won’t ever see again? A video where Bladed hasn’t fell off

[@BladedAngel]

nah im falling off hard 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[@MARCM0DE]

@@BladedAngelin all seriousness this was a great video explaining mathematically how certain engine layouts are impossible to balance so even a mouth breathing troglodyte like myself can understand. Minecraft build was even cooler

[@captainslow_037]

@@BladedAngel nah dawg, you never fall off, just dive in order to gain speed for more lift

[@BladedAngel]

@@captainslow_037 this legit made me feel beter. thanks man. Dive so hard, I come out the dirt on the other side and fly into the sky🦅

[@captainslow_037]

@@BladedAngel yessir this is the american way

[@fontheking5]

Volkswagens V5 engine of the late 90:s and early 2000:s was based on the very narrow angle 2.8 liter VR6 engine, but with 1 cylinder removed, it's the only production V5 engine being installed in cars. All other 5 cylinder car engines, Audi, Volvo, Fiat, Honda \ Acura (not in Europe ) GM, and the 5 cylinder Mercedes diesels were all inline 5s, my favorite engine design after V8:s 👍

[@shaggings]

And it's sad that the i5 is now dead. Nobody makes em anymore...other than Scania.

[@Thinginator]

Fun fact, Oldsmobile designed a V5 diesel engine for FWD cars in the 80s which NEARLY made it to production, but the fallout from the failure of the Oldsmobile diesel V8 made them cancel it. Unlike the diesel V8, it was designed from the ground up to be a diesel engine (not a gas V8 hastily and crappily converted to diesel), so could've actually been pretty decent. Sadly though, now there's only one surviving prototype in a museum and it hasn't run in decades so the only people who know what it sounded like are 1980s Oldsmobile engineers.

[@jhutt8002]

Audi/VAG and further developed Volvo inline 5's were the best engines ever made and it was really a misstep for VAG to cease use them. Really simple to fix, reliable to boot and upgradebla to a power levels no other basic VAG engines can take.

[@AndrewCDiprose]

@@jhutt8002 yes sad indeed

[@benda18]

Love your random Cincinnati driving scenes

[@angeloamaral9141]

Hey Bladed, I’m a Brazilian car guy, I drove already twice (I’m 13 and to get a license it’s 18), I’m excited to one day get a Honda civic vti, it won’t be my first car, but I’ll grind and I respect all car guys. I have a sim rig so I’m training, I learned a lot from you, you’re my favorite American KZbinr.

[@crepeenjoyer]

you don’t drive a car but you’re a car guy ???? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@angeloamaral9141]

@@crepeenjoyer I sim drift, and I’m interested in cars, I know a lot of mechanics. I also sometimes drive my dad’s 2014 civic

[@omarrodriguez1929]

​@@crepeenjoyeryou clearly haven't seen Bladed Angels video on the levels of car guys.

[@DavidThomas005]

@@angeloamaral9141no need to reply that’s rage bait kid, respect the dedication and I’m glad you have found a hobby so early!

[@angeloamaral9141]

@@DavidThomas005 thanks man, I got a rig and I go to arcades sometimes, to play car games, I’m an amateur car guy

[@kugnichsodoof8241]

Maybe do a T layout for a 15 cyl. engine. I also think a T9 would be pretty awesome.

[@Rpzz0]

Like a W but with 90° angle between banks

[@kugnichsodoof8241]

@@Rpzz0 But wouldn't that make it an X? Ouh ouh X12, I want an X12

[@Thinginator]

@@kugnichsodoof8241 You'll be happy to know that X engines do exist, and one of them is used in tanks.

[@Rpzz0]

@@kugnichsodoof8241 yeah it kinda is depending on the type of W engine, if it's an old style "real" W with 3 individual banks it's almost but if it's a new style staggered V like setup with 2 individual banks it's not really.

[@kyleclason5314]

Inline 7's are also used in ag. Agco uses a sisu I7 in Fendt, Challenger, and Massey Ferguson tractors

[@BladedAngel]

oh neat!

[@kyleclason5314]

@@BladedAngel it's so cool to actually get a reply from you dude, I've been subscribed to and watching your channel for like 7 years

[@MaddFUFU]

I saw me a McLaren F1 and immediately tapped on the video

[@camber_courtney5250]

Thumbnail got changed

[@MaddFUFU]

@@camber_courtney5250 oh God damn

[@vortex3738]

honda had really good success with a v5

[@BladedAngel]

yeah. sadly the same cannot be said for Volkswagen and their VR5 😂

[@o_sagui6583]

​@@BladedAngelMainly because Honda just used the extra cylinder to remove the secondary vibrations of the other 4 cylinders, they weren't relying on it for power Also the fact that Rossi was a fucking GOAT at that time

[@wholmes12383]

VR6 As a honorable mention 😀

[@surferdude4487]

Some crazy German auto manufacturer is still using those.

[@GJR44]

I love how the I5 image is actually an I6

[@Dochartach]

hope ya feel better soon dude. Awesome video as always

[@plazmaremixd3890]

11:02 You're a legend for this

[@雪狐-c7k]

btw your Minecraft build V14 is sick tho (only think I'd criticise is the piston moving vertical but not diagnose)

[@BladedAngel]

Unfortunately, that's just a Minecraft physics engine issue. Diagonal movement is only possible with mods like Create but with how large my builds are, it will just lag immediately (yes even with a $3K PC)

[@stephencavanaugh8377]

Gotta admit, it was nice to see you driving around Cincinnati in your video.

[@TheMr.Logan9]

Cool seeing you driving around Cincinnati in your clips, Bladed. Did you get a chance to try some Skyline Chili?

[@DK70707]

*GoldStar

[@TheMr.Logan9]

@DK70707 Goldstar for double deckers and fries. Skyline for Coneys and 3 way baked potatoes. Can't even get goldstar at a Bengal games anymore.

[@paccin339]

First video of yours I've stumbled upon in a while... Happy to see you're doing good and still putting so much passion in videos :D

[@terrymanoranjan6006]

The vr engine was originally developed by lancia. It was dropped due to balancing issues and never put into production. Before the vw launched v5 they first launched a vr6 (later called r32/36. This was first sold in golf mk3 and Corrado.

[@johnsterfer5906]

First car was a Passat W8 wagon. Surprisingly the engine and drivetrain were reliable. Even after over a quarter of a million kilometers and 20 years, what broke was everything around it.

[@mayoral90s38]

As a curiosity, bugatti tried out a 3 bank w18 before the w16. And at the same time, Mercedes benz was about to revive Maybach and one of the concepts features a v24 engine

[@NoblenoobTM]

Bro made this video to finally flex his minecraft world. And I am impressed.

[@ryab6]

Imagine, the triangle 15, 3 inline 5's joined in a triangle shape

[@johnvaughan22]

3.2l vr6 owner, it’s absolutely amazing engine and something i want to keep for life

[@fall4570]

If the world have perfected the h16, v8 would be treated as like v6's....

[@minimaster0328]

"Inline fives do exist." (shows inline 6) 9:31

[@raheem300]

A V16 is like the mega evolution of a V8 ..while atleast with its growl

[@futuconitro]

Fast, someone grab 3 Audi engines and make a big American muscle with a giant enormous hood with a 15 cyl

[@AmplifydMedia]

Bladed: Here’s an engine that we’ll never see again Also bladed: Oh also here is it’s other variant so it isn’t really gone

[@NOway264]

V5 engines are very reliable and many people used aftermarket turbo kits with great success on them. The Problem with VR5 and VR6 is that too many people with lack of knowledge work on them.

[@MichaelJEngelmann]

I remember watching Top Gear & Clarkson said the Bugatti engine was a W16 or something. And said it’s like gluing two V8s together. I relayed this to my dad who took it literally. Or he was playing around.

[@JeremyAndersonBoise]

This channel remains my favorite automotive content on YT

[@Leon-vp3vb]

I think, H configuration can be balanced little bit, if top boxer engine has inverted firing order, with respect to bottom firing order. And keeping both boxers seperate, drawing power via 2 torque converters, that will join into final drive.

[@Leon-sr3rx]

Bro Talks about the Vr5 Engine and skips the balanced Vr6 Engines 😢(Sad Volkswagen noises)

[@vr6gls]

I know right! The VR6 motor is one of the best sounding motors ever produced. ❤️

[@Zukunftretro]

The VR5 Is actually also well balanced 😅

[@lucianistoc1264]

Vr6 are still in production

[@Leon-sr3rx]

@@Zukunftretro yeah but an even number of Pistons is still better

[@edwardrod605]

Hey bladed angel i hope you recover well and fast ,we are here to support you ❤

[@ZA-ek9yi]

The Mazda Mx-30 has a hybrid rotary engine

[@drtyhay]

And somehow, the mad lads over at GM put a V5 into a truck. Only a decade ago too

[@Rodreguez3987]

With the balancing thing, you’re confusing an even firing order with harmonic balance, also it’s perfectly fine to use decimals in engineering that wouldn’t stop it working… look at D4As videos on primary and secondary balance he’s a frigging genius

[@paulwhite7475]

My inner 12 year old Can't stop giggling after you said "memed in your shorts "

[@sebastiangeorger5791]

The V14 diesel in marine applications are only usuable because of their extremely low RPM, which is usually

[@tovarase6760]

The VR5 was actually somewhat succesful in western Europe and to this day im owning a mk4 golf with the VR5 and insurance companies here still offer a pretty low cost insurance and the main purpose of the VR5 was for having a nice sounding car without needing to pay for a V6 and besides the rumble. 80%~ of the mk4 golf that had the VR5 we're fully equiped they had heated leather seats leather interior with a open top. So they kinda marketed this car as being a comfort car with a nice V10 kind of nature to it (with the sound) and that's pretty much it. (the first VR5's had 150hp while the later models got 170hp).

[@BRESE22]

There’s a guy local to me, he’s got a VW Up! With a turbo v5 and it’s quite a weapon

[@groerfriedrich4320]

Had a Volkswagen with the 2.3 v(r)5 and I loved it. Sounded great and didn’t give me any issues 🙏🏻

[@vitoraugustocarlos3758]

11:34 if an inline 15 is mathematically possible, this means that in a parallel universe, a V30 CAN EXIST! Also, 720/30 = 24. AHH YEAH, gonna get some drinks then I'll start building history.

[@HarrisonBennett-ps4pd]

Alright, I just got a crazy idea. What if VW made a 4x4 with two separate engines. a V layout engine for the front and a W layout for the back. Then theoretically they could call it a VW VW.

[@LJ07EBP]

Love, your videos, very entertaining, keep it up please

[@marcholstten]

Still we find a bunch of "uneven" engines here and there that work... Ferrari' s 65° v6 (dino , stratos) and v12 ; TVR' s 75° v8 in the cerbera ; Noble' s( Volvo origine) 60° v8 in the M600 ; and a few more ...

[@QuebecGamer20]

The whole odd piston number thing isn't just balance, it's also about firing order. Pretty much all modern car engines have even spacing between the different cylinders being on their power stroke, thus an uneven fire engine will sound and feel weird to the consumers. You can look at early U.S. V6s as an example of this, they were just a cut-up V8, but at least it would still land on an even number

[@prycenewberg3976]

It's interesting that every prime larger that five is- unbalaceable? As is every number which is a multiple of one of those primes. Twenty-two cannot be balanced because it's just a multiple of eleven. Same story with 21, it's just a multiple of 7.

[@itsskip]

Me waiting for a VR4/VR8:

[@jba1167]

Once upon a time while developing their W-16 engine for the Bugatti, VW also developed a prototype W-18 engine.. 720/18 = 40!

[@pippipylup8106]

I wish turbine engines would come back. Lotus tried it in F1, Chrysler tried it in a road car, and Jaguar tried making a turbine-electric (series hybrid) supercar. Turbines can be more efficient when they're running at their ideal load, so as a range extender generator they'd be awesome. but they sound cool as hell and that's what's most important

[@MatteoStorm]

Ngl i wish bro posted more frequently but i enjoy the videos non the less

[@BladedAngel]

My health keeps me from posting frequently and I have to save my energy for another project I'm starting. thank you for supporting my videos tho!

[@MatteoStorm]

@@BladedAngel Oh dang i never knew much love my brother stay strong

[@MatteoStorm]

​@@BladedAngel oh dang i never knew stay strong my brother ❤ much love

[@雪狐-c7k]

@@BladedAngel that Minecraft Redstone channel?

[@Izumishizue]

It took me 8 minutes of watching this video to realize the song being played is Scarlet Nexus’s between episode/safehouse theme

[@sayeedalsifat1308]

About the V14 entry I mean you can just use Radians instead of Degrees if you need a rational number

[@runningvalver]

The VW v5 is just a short vr6 and is common/easy to fix, not that I had to as my 160k example never really went wrong.

[@yottadrive]

You should mention the AP engine which stands for "Alta Performance" or "High Performance" from VW. It was a family of L4 engines with high torque and high reliability that is still popular in Brazil despite not being produced anymore.

[@FierceMotorworks]

V14 is mathematically impossible to balance when limited to 1's and 0's in minecraft. Just gotta use funky numbers, but thankfully real life allows for funky numbers to exist. Example: pi is not an even number, it never ends (mathematically) and yet circles exist and we can use pi to compute circumferences and area within the circle. Just gotta be clever and go out to multiple decimal places.

[@MARCM0DE]

Why are vibrations so bad? My girlfriend always tells me how much she likes them

[@tweed0929]

You're onto something. Let those Aliexpress pleasure toys have V14 dildo drives.

[@WONMARK]

13:03 : [in T-1000 voice] "that's a nice bike."

[@Juliannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn]

Im surprised the wankle wasnt mentioned. as a fan of rotaries i dont think mazda would ever really make a “real” rotary again

[@andriekanenimvillaflor8511]

Bladed, u definitely need to make a tutorial for that dang Engine

[@o_sagui6583]

The thing about those 9 and 15 cylinder engines, is that the only possible layout to maximize area would be something akin to the LIFE W12 F1 engine used in the 90s, and that would require asymmetrical intakes and exhausts . . . Which means one of the banks is always getting hot air in the chamber by default, making it a dud for reliable power, and thats not even taking the account to properly time those cylinders firing orders or other complexities such as wear, cooling, manufacturing . . .

[@cloric1]

The easter egg hunt in this is every time he says iL5 he shows an iL6

[@dlh5323]

I really dont understand why flat 8 engines just dont exist for sports cars. When I think about clearance issues it would be just as wide and short as a flat engine and just as long as a v8. In theory you can get v8 power while having the center of gravity super low. That sounds crazy good for a sports car. Imagine a 911 with 2 extra cylinders. Or a brz with double the cylinders.

[@vukpsodorov5446]

so the H16 takes the whole "unleash your broadside at your opponent during a race, tally ho lads" concept from the subie boxer engines, but takes it up a few steps to 16 cann-- i mean cylinders instead of 4. also i love how the H24 is theoretically just 4 inline 6 engines, because the inline 6 is the superior engine layout for apparently everything. also a VR15 would be even more hilarious than an inline 15 imo also also, neat minecraft building skills

[@jeffmayo6002]

Runner ups the jet engine in the futura and the few race cars using radial engines

[@Vinguandur]

Aight, future project: Successfully develop a v9 engine (in the case that you become a billionaire and have enough funding).

[@咸]

Why is there a random diagram of bronchitis at 12:44

[@bismarckbros.8039]

An inline 15 is way too long for cars. That makes me think about a W15 engine (3 banks of 5 cylinders) being the best way to have 15 cylinders in a car. The main con with a 3-bank W engine is that the cool intake on one bank could be next to a hot exhaust manifold, rendering that bank a bit of a dud. So I would have the intakes of the left and middle banks next to each other, and do the same with the exhaust headers on the middle and right banks. So the exhaust on the left bank is on the outside, and the intake of the right bank is outside. It would be cool to build and test it.

[@scottyomcbrian]

Anyone else intrigued why street footage of Cincinnati is rolling in the background?

[@dinocharlie1]

Another interesting one is the slant 6. More popular in its day than all on this list in terms of sales except maybe the straight 8 but probably still more sold

[@redfoxmotorsports]

Just wait till I birth this x configuration 12 cylinder 2 stroke diesel

[@loafsenpai4150]

am i tweakin or am i hearing scarlet nexus music in the background??

[@bricdoo7483]

I loved it back when F1 allowed teams to mess around with engines and other parts. They had more freedom and more creativity.

[@bocahdongo7769]

It does exist nowadays, it called LMH. You can do whatever the F you want with the engine But you guys may not like it because they capped the power at 750 kW

[@arnljotthenorwegian5818]

I wish that i can own a Passat W8 in the future. One of my dream cars: Audi 100 c4 quattro. 1995-'98 Volvo 945 and Passat 3bg W8.

[@cookiedoujones7538]

Id love to get a mk4 jetta and swap a v6 into it I think they look so good man

[@oh-ox9sj]

why did u put up a inline 6 engine when talking about inline 5s existing i thought i was hallucinating for a moment

[@stevenormandin2059]

SISU in Finland make a 7 cyl diesel engine for farm tractors they work pretty well BUT economically it isn't practical because 6 cyl are powerful enough for the task BUT they do exist it is the SISU 98HD model diesel engine and they seams to be reliable so far .

[@jwalster9412]

So if the V10 is dying, and we still have V/W12s and soon a V/W16s, why dont we make a W10 engine? But not a W 10 engine, with two VR5, a W engine with three banks?

[@Tomart0]

ok but when are we getting the W15

[@TheRealHexonHimself]

Mercedes once tried to make a V24 for their new revived brand "Maybach" by doing the same thing you just did, and it was precisely engineered with average reliability. The only reasons (that i could find on the internet) why they never put it in any maybach is because it's "kinda" expensive and Mercedes at that time STRUGGLED to find a transmission good enough to resist insane amount of torque.

[@michaelthomas5140]

I think Ferrari had a 1.5 liter V-12, I forget the engine name, but I think it was called Colomo or Colombo.

[@Palkia8842]

Yoo those Minecraft engines are dope.

[@СТРОМ-ъ1в]

V12 TDI 💀

[@spizz_420]

The vr5 isent so terrible with vibration, at least here in europe there is also no problem with finding capable mecanics for this motor. I know of motors that managed over 250.000 miles without major repairs. There are a few known problems that can be easily solved.

[@tatesmith9085]

It might be rather large but someone should try making a W15. Just 3 banks of 5.

[@mfcrumbs]

All I can think about now is a W15 engine, 3 I5’s beside one another in a car to form some sort of W. If I ever get a stupid amount of money, I know what I’m spending a solid 12 million dollars of research on

[@kenbrown2808]

I think the biggest extinct car engine is the pushrod V-8. OHC rendered them obsolete.

[@stormer24]

You may not find the inline 8 in cars anymore, but you will still find it in our hearts 💖

[@theunknown3393]

W8 is hands down the best sounding engine

[@s4dg]

why no radial engines? why no turbines? can i P&W pt-6 swap a miata?

[@Manoah.]

The W8 sounds so good tho.....