NTSB Final Report UAL 702 B-767 IAH

[@tbyrde53]

I"m a retired UAL 767 Captain. I flew this very airplane many times. Thankfully I never had new hires in the right seat of the 757/767. The 767 pitch is sensitive after touchdown and you have to physically and mentally think to fly the nose down. It's not hard but you do have think about it. Loved flying the 767/300, still my favorite airplane. The speed brake not being armed contributed to this incident and the Captain was at fault for not catching that, in fact on the checklist it's his duty to arm it. If UAL let this guy go in his probationary year he had to be quite deficient. They really try to help you through.

[@VagabondTexan]

If I may ask, what autobrakes setting did UAL use? I found that new pilots usually wanted to use autobrakes 3 which often derotated the nose a bit more aggressively than they were used to and there was a lot of overreaction in pitch (as an aside, I think it was a result of the training dept ALWAYS having them use AB3 in the sim). When I had them use setting 2 the derotation was a lot less aggressive and allowed them to develop a feel for flying the nose down as you point out.

[@CaptainT8TR]

Agreed! They’ll give you every opportunity to succeed. It’s just a guess, but his “perception,” of the event, probably drove a feeling of innocence of the event and then led him to believe that he was being treated unfairly and he probably had a bit of an attitude about it. Or he knew he screwed up, lied about it and then had an attitude. The FO who was a new hire on the 57 that was withdrawn from service after a hard landing in EWR a few years back, successfully went through retraining and as far as I know is out in the line now.

[@sennaha]

Didn't Gordon bang up a 767 in the day?

[@mickeydoolittle2057]

@@VagabondTexanI heard Juan report “AB2”.

[@dougnorton5143]

This is why I always hated driving a tractor trailer after someone else, you never knew what happened in a previous trip. Kind of the same thing here, only more serious!

[@FieldShunt]

One has to marvel at the skill and technical expertise of the repair forces able to restore this airplane.

[@skyepilotte11]

Career cut short...FO is blaming not himself but some thing else...typical of today's work force. Thx Juan

[@duncandmcgrath6290]

Been doing aircraft structural repair for almost 30 years… you’d be surprised what you don’t need to know when it’s AOG

[@johng4093]

But is it really as good as new?

[@johnarnold893]

@@skyepilotte11 The current POTUS is infamous for blaming someone else for his screw ups. When the man at the top is a screw up everybody else gets on board

[@vegasrichsave]

Awesome skill yes! What's AOG?

[@dennism8346]

Fantastic breakdown. Data doesn't care about beliefs, opinions, or perceptions.

[@andybrockbank3027]

maybe politicians should have FDRs installed. They wouldn't last long.

[@deadslow201]

You mean BSDRs? And btw, fantastic quote "Data doesn't care about beliefs, opinions, or perceptions."

[@JamesTK]

data also can't defame

[@don7294]

Or memory...

[@jbrownjetmech-4783]

The facts don't care about your feelings. This is true.

[@TechGorilla1987]

Man have you ever come a LOOOONG way since the Oroville dam broke up. Holy progression. Half a million subs. That is a substantial milestone. Congratulations.

[@EstorilEm]

I miss that kinda content too

[@mtkoslowski]

Dame? Huh?

[@TechGorilla1987]

@mtkoslowski Ahh, yes. I have been remiss to think that critical thinking is still being taught in 'schools'. No doubt I will have corrected my error so as to relate to the lowest common denominator in intellectual prowess. Thank you for pointing out where I have committed an egregious error. Good day.

[@hayleyxyz]

​@@EstorilEm he still covers topics like that though - the dam, CA fires, Calfire air service

[@blancolirio]

Thanks for watching!

[@phildernerjr]

"We taxied to the gate with no further incident," as Juan gives the camera heavy side-eye. haha (3:07)

[@abbasakhan22]

I noticed that too. Because Juan had seen the data 🥶

[@billylain7456]

Thanks, Juan. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your ability to explain data in a way that an average (non-pilot) can understand. Excellent video as usual.

[@vancetilley7942]

Good follow up on this accident. I was the F/O on a 767 in 2007 in a similar situation at KLAS with a captain on her first trip off IOE. I was just about to call “PITCH” (at 8 degrees nose up) when the mains touched down. Spoilers and auto-brakes deployed with the nose still way high. I can only describe her reaction as confusion. I made a controversial decision to grab the yoke and slowly lower the nose to the ground, without damage. She went on to have 2 other incidents (one with a FAA jumpseater in the cockpit, which was the last one) before being put on leave. Like the F/O in this accident She sued myself, the chief pilot, 4 others and the company itself. During that lawsuit’s deposition process it was found out that she had a unreported prescription, and was taking Prozac, while flying. (Prozac was a banned medication at the time.) Even though she was the former CEO’S daughter, she was fired…. I was fired about 6 months later…for not wearing my hat. (Yup, True story!) I’ve since immigrated to New Zealand and put that awful chapter behind me.

[@hotrodray6802]

You pissed somebody off.

[@vancetilley7942]

@@hotrodray6802 Maybe so… but, no damage to the aircraft, and happy customers. That’s my job. 👍

[@jeanetteshawredden5643]

​@vancetilley7942 Maybe the lady's dad was getting even w you, for his daughters errirs

[@Saltlick11]

Damn great story, sorry for your troubles. United is an awful standard for pilots these days IMO.

[@jshumphress13]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think something like Prozac should prevent someone from flying. You’re not taking Xanax or other benzodiazepines. I highly doubt Prozac had anything to do with her mess up, but maybe she just sucked at flying?

[@daviddeavours4909]

And this is exactly why I subscribe to the bloncolirio channel. Juan Brown does a 100% "Juan Brown" on this incident and walks us through the data, showing what actually happened and how! He walks us through, second by second, what the pilots did and how it contributed to the incident. No overly dramatic music, no actors pretending to fly an airplane, none of that drama that you find in "reality TV." Just cold, hard data laced with reasoned analysis. THANK YOU!! P.S. Extra points for linking to the NTSP final report and docket!! Well done!

[@royalaxe]

absolutely, its why im loyal to juan, no BS just the available data, and updates as they come in.

[@innocentbystander3798]

His thumbnails/titles are a bit melodramatic for me, but I suppose it is KZbin.

[@bobmurphy2216]

Juan was covering the 737max crashes very well and had some of the best information out there. He beat all the international media coverage on the causes of the crash.

[@hourbee5535]

Need to add the Law and Order sound when Juan zeroes in on the cause of these accidents. DUN DUN

[@alexanderstavroudis6901]

"Seven seconds of mayhem." By Juan Brown I do remember fondly of plowing the 152's nose wheel into the runway in Salina when I was a student pilot. Boy, that’ll get your attention. Thanks for all you do!

[@thompson37]

Absolutely the best go-to channel for analysis of these incidents.

[@wwjoesr]

"This is what tells the truth.....the data" Love it!😊

[@atticstattic]

@@wwjoesr Assuming that said data is coming from sensors that are functioning correctly

[@gemma3877]

For those of us who aren't airline pilots (or indeed, any kind of pilot) ... can you imagine working somewhere where they're able to unpick a mistake you made in such detail? 😅 Fascinating and terrifying. 😂 (And incredibly useful for learning what not to do.)

[@philippal8666]

Oh, it’s not just in flying 😂, anything with responsibility/money loss/people hurt they Know.

[@gemma3877]

@philippal8666 but not always down to this level of detail. "The day trader leaned forward in her chair and gripped the mouse harder..." 😅

[@brianwelch1579]

omg you've never worked anywhere have you? I got this kind of treatment at the f'in scrapyard office every time a scrap bin was mislabeled on a sheet because the driver mumbles into the radio unless it's cussing

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

@@brianwelch1579 I'm imaging the yard with every bin labelled "unintelligible".

[@liamrey]

i just wished the medical profession would consider it more.

[@gordonfarrell6732]

In the past I installed a antenna on top fuselage of a 757 , you must walk on the rivet lines not to buckle the skin which is only .040 thick ( thick like a 10 cent piece ) the top of the pane doesn't have large pieces connected to it like the wings and tail so it has a thinner skin . But is vulnerable to what happened

[@culvercadetguy5245]

Juan ,years ago I flew for an airline where there was a new captain in training . He certainly put the nose wheel down hard but not enough to expect fuselage damage. There was a wrinkle all around the fuselage at the same place as on this plane your discussing. We found out from Boeing when they came to fix the 767 that they called early versions light weights. Essentially the metal in that area was increased in thickness in later versions due to numerous wrinkles happening in the early versions on heavy landings

[@beenaplumber8379]

Yeah, this is an important part of the story for sure.

[@sailaab]

wow! so Boeing was McDonnell Douglasified EVEN BEFORE the official merger?

[@beenaplumber8379]

I did this during one of my early solo landings as a student. Felt just like that Cessna in this video. Scary as hell - thought I was gonna cartwheel. It's not easy to remember training while flying a Cessna in a tumble dryer, but I got it settled. My main concerns were 1) running out of runway, 2) reluctant to add power because I was running out of runway, and 3) afraid of landing too hard on the mains. Fortunately I found that sweet spot - just a bit of throttle to settle it down while holding the nose up, though still a fairly heavy thunk. I think it was the only time I took the exit at the end of the 3000' runway. Fortunately my instructor wasn't watching that one. I think sometimes fear can be an excellent instructor. I never did it again. I probably landed hot & long - I did that a lot as a student. My instructor was a Mig-21 fighter pilot, and he always had me doing steep approaches to make sure I'd make the runway if I lost power. My BFR instructor was rather shocked at my technique and told me to start flying the PAPI approach angle. After flying such steep approaches, the normal approach angle was a piece of cake!

[@swerne01]

That is too funny. I wonder how many people are instructed by someone who flew a Mig-21.

[@ivansemanco6976]

@@swerne01 I knew few of them.

[@JariJuslin]

@@swerne01 : It depends on your country. For example in Finland Mig-21 was the main fighter aircraft for years, so there was plenty of pilots with that experience who were not behind the Iron Curtain.

[@beenaplumber8379]

My instructor was a former Mig 21 pilot. It was 1990, and he had flown the Migs in the Yugoslav Air Force until a few years prior. The flight school was in Manassas, VA. Sorry if that gave the wrong impression. I learned things from him that I wouldn't have learned from other instructors, and that's a fact.

[@JasonWardStudios]

I'm glad that the damage wasn't a wright off and that they were able to repair the airframe. Those are beautiful planes.

[@47colton]

@@JasonWardStudios a second 767 was damage and was a write off.

[@TheGospelQuartetParadise]

Once again, Professor Juan Browne breaks down the process in a way we all can understand.

[@mikebreen2890]

Nice to see it repaired.

[@qwerty112311]

Thanks to Boeing since they have been so bad at delivering 787s United has been pushing their elderly planes harder for longer.

[@robgrey6183]

No, it's not. I wouldn't want to fly in that plane. Remember the accident years ago with the Japanese plane? Suffered a tail strike. They repaired the aft bulkhead, which later gave way and caused a crash.

[@JMAixKali]

​@@robgrey6183At the same time though, one can suppose that the incident would have forced a full inspection/recertification of the fuselage that would otherwise not have occurred. Meaning, it could be a safer plane

[@johnandrobinmccoy8305]

@@robgrey6183 If memory serves me right, it was in improper repair.

[@earlturner8174]

@@robgrey6183that repair was not done properly

[@stephenwenzel6909]

I haven’t said this in a while but this is my favorite KZbin channel. You seem to be very knowable about everything you report on. I wish all reporters were. Keep up the great work

[@seminolefantodd4736]

Juan is knowledgeable because HE IS a pilot.

[@innocentbystander3798]

@@seminolefantodd4736 He didn't say knowledgeable. Said "knowable".

[@26betsam]

I still appreciate the mechanical checklists we had at AA. Made it pretty difficult to miss an important T/O or landing item. Finally, on the 76-300 you definatally wanted to carry power to touch down. Idle at 10 feet and it was an express elevator to the runway, ask me how I know...

[@DaleScheid]

The mechanical sliding checklists? I know the AA 707's and I assume the 727 had them that the SO/FE used, I did not know that the later aircraft had them also. Where in the cockpit?

[@26betsam]

On the center pedestal F/O’s side. Same on the S-80.

[@big_beak]

That jet is ready for a TED Talk

[@FredPorlock-1892]

😂😂

[@williamcorcoran8842]

Don’t you mean a uni TED talk?

[@KevinWindsor1971]

Years ago, there was TED, which was United's short-lived regional subsidiary. I saw a few of their A 320's on the ground at IAD when I was on my way to Costa Rica aboard TACA.

[@brian5o]

@@KevinWindsor1971 That’s the first thing I thought about, too. I thought to myself, didn’t United wind down Ted Airlines, then I noticed the little bit of the “U” peaking out from under the tarp.

[@13699111]

Good one 😊

[@bc-guy852]

What a phenomenal analysis Juan - thank you! It's unfortunate that this pilot lost his job but I think his performance to this point with the airline (failed or barely-passed flight-checks) and failure to set the speed-brake correctly means he will lose his defamation case and will probably end up out of the industry. Not all are meant to be in the left seat...?

[@cremebrulee4759]

Or the right seat.

[@AlanCheak]

As a retired FedEx captain on the B-777, MD-11, A300, and B-727 what made the MD-11 such a demanding airplane to land was that after main wheel touchdown and the spoilers deployed you did actually have to push the nose down for a second so as not to hit the tail. We referred to as the bump, which was virtually opposite of what all the other airplane I flew as Captain where your flying the nose all the way to touchdown. I never flew the 757 or 767 so I don’t have any expertise as to whether those airplanes have any special quirks. One thing I always told new copilots was that if you can land a Cessna 182 then you can land a triple seven. On the other hand with the MD-11 it took an aviator to fly it well.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Or a madman. Quirks are something I don't like to hear as a passenger. I'm guessing the pre max 737s are also more like Cessnas.

[@ChrisHarding-lk3jj]

Botching the flair on the MD-11 will guarantee a bounce and possibly a roll.

[@DerredmaxTRIAX]

A Fed-Ex crew flying an MD-11 in Japan had a similar incident with a deadly ending. This crew got lucky! Thanks Juan!

[@donadams8345]

Paperwork is always important, that's the glue that hold repairs together.

[@jimcooksc]

No airplane can fly until the weight of the paperwork exceeds the weight of the aircraft.

[@WOFFY-qc9te]

So does that mean Boeing needs more paper .....

[@Bright_Broccoli]

Like paper maché? : )

[@A_barrel]

​@WOFFY-qc9te has anyone seen the redwoods lately?

[@WOFFY-qc9te]

@ 🤣

[@NelsonBrown]

The sawtooth shape of the elevator plot is a sign of a rate limit, where the pilot is asking for the elevators to move faster than the actuators can move. The sign of PIO is that the pilot is 180-degrees out of phase with the motion of the aircraft, and I see that a bit where the control column is up when the pitch angle is down, and vice versa. Rate limited controls are another typical sign of (and trigger for) PIO. So what I'm hearing Juan say is that the crew misconfigured (speed brake not armed) which changed the pitching moments on touchdown from what the pilot was expecting. That is, the aircraft pitched down faster than expected, pilot pulled back on the column quickly, the elevator actuators didn't keep up with the sharp input. When the pitch rate started to respond, the pilot push the column forward. On the second cycle of the PIO, the aircraft was briefly off the mains again, and the pitch angle was low so the nosegear came down at about the same time as the mains -- maybe just before, but the sample rate of the data isn't fast enough to show that. Another trigger for the PIO is that the pilot's gain was up with all that activity in roll -- left and right on the yoke +/-25 deg seems like a lot, but I don't know for 767.

[@sstearns2]

Yes. We need to start teaching a little controls theory to pilots. I frequently coach pilots on the 757/767 to keep the control inputs low frequency. There is no reason to make corrections faster than about once per second since the flight control servos and are just not going to respond to anything higher frequency than that and you quickly lose phase margin if you go to 2-3 hertz and that’s when the PIO happens. You can see it when you do a flight control check. The controls trail your inputs by about a quarter second and that’s with no air loads.

[@jeffreybell436]

@@sstearns2Just like in gaming, it’s the lag that gets you.

[@johnhaller5851]

​@@sstearns2Heaven forbid that a pilot needs to understand the first and second derivative, at least qualitatively. To be real, I didn't get any control theory in my undergraduate degree, it was only in my masters degree when I took a control theory class. While it was informative, I never used that information in my career, but it did help me understand Cruise Control. I don't expect pilots to plot control systems with polar coordinates. Being able to discuss control theory to people without Calculus knowledge is challenging.

[@lembriggs1075]

Very well said! Thanks for putting that in there!

[@sstearns2]

@@johnhaller5851 I think the essential thing to teach pilots of large aircraft is to be aware of the frequency of their control inputs. The response of the aircraft beings to degrade above about one input per second and there be monsters beyond about two.

[@johndemerse9172]

Excellent post Juan. Amazing work to get that heavy back up and flying. Cheers from CYYB.

[@kd4pba]

Glad to see the level of detail in the investigation. It's also comforting to see how this was handled. I feel sorry for the FO, but sometimes this is the way it works out. Safety comes first.

[@dennishayes65]

FO = first officer (he was a first year pilot on probation).

[@carlwilliams6977]

I feel sorry for the plane!

[@PapaG603]

It's crazy the FO wants to sue for a bruised ego instead of using it as a learning lesson and trying to get better

[@Frequency-Modulation]

Formet flight attendant transition to pilot looks more like a Biden era DEI hire. I guess they get preference ahead of former air force and navy aviators.

[@ghostrider-be9ek]

i dont feel sorry for the FO at all, they even lied on the AIB statement about not pushing the nose down

[@operastudio1712]

Always detailed and complete description of what happened. Always first choice of information about anything happening in the aviation world.

[@SkipGetelman]

Absolutely no one can break down an incident better than Juan

[@innocentbystander3798]

Good grief... take it easy, Skip.

[@itscaptainahoy]

Triple kablamo! That must be a record.

[@TonyNaggs]

Thanks for the analysis. Very interesting to see the flight data logs, and hear your comparing them to a correctly configured aircraft landing.

[@alarahillton1343]

Hi Juan, I’m 72, and have no training or knowledge, re flying, but, I love you and your work. This was very interesting, and you sure know your stuff. And when it’s a loss of life,,, you know just how to handle those reviews too. Anyway,,, I never thought of this till right now. I wonder if you could research and review data on one of my best friends father. He worked for nasa back in the 70’s. He also had a plane he built. I forget what you call that. Soooo, one day he was flying his special little plane and all I ever heard was that he flew under some wires and was killed. He was relatively young. My friend, his daughter, and I were about 22 at the time. It was so sad and shocking. His name was Marion Baker. This accident occurred in my former state, somewhere near Sandusky, or Huron Ohio , I believe. And if you could review it I’d be very thankful. God rest his soul.

[@darrens.4322]

Great presentation here, by you Juan. As always, we count on your careful analysis post NTSB/PC, and of course on your early outline of recent crashes, you do a great job on those without over speculating or jumping to early conclusions. Thanks!

[@bicycle697]

Juan, that was such a good explanation, even a non-,pilot like me can understand. Thanks!!!

[@JFirn86Q]

Should maybe be noted that pushing forward on the yoke right after mains hit can cause the aircraft to pivot about the center of lift, causing the mains to come off the ground so that the nose is going to hit first next.

[@johndurant622]

The 767 is a very forgiving plane to fly and land. You have to really work hard…or screw up badly…to break the plane. Forgetting to arm the spoilers prevents the plane from settling down onto the runway, and it is common to pull the yoke back as you feel the spoilers deploy, to keep the nose from dropping. Without spoilers, if you use any back yoke after touchdown you will pull it back into the air, and you must fly it back down…not shove it down. It looks like the auto brakes retained pressure through the bounce, which is interesting. If the brakes were dragging at the second touch, that would also pull the nose down hard. It just appears the pilot was perfectly out of synch with what was happening…the definition of a PIO.

[@sstearns2]

Exactly. I’ve landed the 757 a few times where the CA (and me) failed to get the speed brakes in the auto detent for landing. It is pretty much guaranteed to do a gentle small bounce and you just hold the pitch and let it settle back on, but you just have to have the right pilot instincts since it’s all over before you can think about it and you’re not expecting it. There obviously needs to be a clear warning when the gear is down and landing flaps are extended without the speed brake lever in the detent and we need to be more strict with training problems. When I got hired at the regionals 25 years ago there was much less tolerance for having problems in training. Not everyone is cut out to be a ballerina as they used to say.

[@philipjamesparsons]

Whilst, the Captain should have armed the spoilers, I don't blame him for the accident. Even if the spoilers are armed properly, it's inevitable that at some point in a Boeing career, they won't deploy. You've just got to deal with it and any pilot who cannot, should not be out there.

[@47colton]

​@@philipjamesparsonsEXACTLY!!!

[@allanriches9381]

Love it when the plane model comes out

[@georgewchilds]

We can whine about Boeing all day long, but the fact that the fuselage can withstand those forces and not break apart completely is impressive. Kudos to the mechanics who were able to repair the damage.

[@Nathan-q1c]

Im sure there was some engineering involved.

[@michaelwright2986]

Indeed--but this aircraft was designed and built by the old Boeing.

[@Jack3md]

@@michaelwright2986 Boeing still builds the 767, I’m sure it is built with the same engineering and integrity as the original design.

[@donaldstanfield8862]

​@@Jack3mdB has already delivered the last airliner in the 767 run.

[@Jack3md]

@@donaldstanfield8862 true but the production line never stopped. Freighter and military tanker are still in production.

[@GeorgeGeorge-yb2sz]

Great explanation Juan. The PIO is analogous to drivers who try to correct the swaying of a trailer. They are always behind the trailer and it quickly gets out of control. The best method i have found for correcting a swaying trailer is to hold the wheel straight ahead and apply the brakes aggressively without sliding the tires. The most common cause of trailers swaying is usually weight distribution; not having enough tongue weight.

[@RobertRobert-d2r]

That is true except braking will not help and likely exacerbate the problem. The problem is the trailer is trying to overtake the tow vehicle. Staying off the brakes and using acceleration will almost certainly pull the rig into shape.

[@rhettlyerly545]

Braking usually makes the problem much worse. As mentioned, gentle acceleration is usually the best remedy for trailer sway,

[@allangibson8494]

Regards of tongue weight, the trailer centre of gravity has to be ahead of the most forward axle on the trailer…

[@LaggerSVK]

1st reason of trailer sway is speed. If its stationary it wont sway. Even very badly distributed trailer will not sway until critical speed. Then the important factor is the weight distribution. More to front -> more stable. Weight always more in front of axle. Distribution like 55/45 but check manual. When your trailer started to sway you already made both mistakes and I am not sure about the accelerating advise because while you could help it in short term in long term you are at the critical speed. If available braking only the trailer would be better option. If not, light smooth braking is advised.

[@machintrucGaming]

@@LaggerSVK So engine brake/Jake break or Transmission brake if available ?

[@THATSMYCABANASHIRT]

Hey Juan! Long time fan, love your channel!

[@M1903a4]

The big thing I had to learn transitioning from the Cherokees I learned on to the Mooney was very accurate speed control on final. With a nose gear noticeably longer than the mains, and the stubby little mains and resulting tendency to float in ground effect any attempt to put it down too fast would bounce the nose gear. I was very careful, but know a few guys who bought new props and an engine teardown with the extra knots they carried on final.

[@Nathan-q1c]

Mooney is not an easy airplane to fly. Speed control is essential and if you fly a Mooney well you can probably handle any jet.

[@M1903a4]

@@Nathan-q1c I always found them to be quite easy to fly, with the major exception being speed control. The problem many have is speed control for the Mooney begins at cruise altitude, not in the pattern. They don't like to slow down, so you need to plan and start your descent relatively early. Much earlier than many Piper or Cessna pilots would consider.

[@DrHarryT]

At 7:54 you can see a porpoise where the main went up then while still up the front came down, then the main came back down while the nose went back up.

[@44R0Ndin]

Managed to pause the video right when you had the figures up for G-force, and I noticed something but maybe it's not all that surprising given the rest of the info: That G-loading during the PIO was pretty nasty, but what I noticed is that if it was much worse, it might have actually automatically triggered the ELT's G-force activation switch! The more I think about it, the more I agree that "7 seconds of mayhem" is pretty much the best way to describe it, that must have been EXTREMELY uncomfortable for passengers not seated near the CG of the aircraft.

[@artlovepeace42]

@15:42 Juan “look at the elevator going!” Um good sir I’m looking at the side of a 757, I can’t see the elevator. 😂 Thanks for all your videos! All your hard work towards creating, editing, and getting the journalism aspect correct, takes a lot of your time! It’s not lost on us how much work these take and we are so appreciative of all of it! Keep up the great work!

[@mikefendel]

Years ago United had another one of these in London. That one resulted in an actual break in the sikn and passengers were looking at sky through the break as they were deplaning. I don;'t recall exactly but it also had to do with the speed brake not being armed I believe.

[@flyinkiwi01]

I saw a freight conversion 737 freighter with a similarly over-stressed fuselage in Indonesia. Very interesting story about that one. The Captain was supposedly the same one that had the fatal over-run in Yogyakarta - Garuda 200 - that crossed the threshold 98 knots over Vref. Yes, you read that correctly. Anyway, he avoided losing his licence and avoided jail time - which was on the cards at one stage - in order to write off other aircraft. It was a write-off due to the remote location - in Wamena, Papua at an elevation of 5000’. In parts of the world, you can avoid failing flight tests and regulatory action with a “special envelope.” Just a wee story for ya. Only similarity in the two is the result. Also, an outside looking in; some pilots seem to fly like they are churning butter with the yoke. Have drawn more than a few pilot’s attention to not needing to constantly over-control an inherently dynamically stable aircraft. I see it on videos that pilots post online as well… like full deflection left and right and pitch up and down on what looks like a rather benign weather visual approach. Some of you guys will know what I mean, I was just looking at the telemetry wondering if they were going though a CAT 2 hurricane 😅

[@billdipasquale7644]

Agree on the over-controlling part. I'm an MEI and see this all the time with students. I remind them a properly trimmed airplane will fly itself - you're just there to guide it in the direction you want. I have even developed a term for the over-controlling: Cockpit Induced Turbulence(CIT). To demonstrate it, when flying in smooth air I move the controls in a similar fashion to what they do in turbulence. They get the point then.

[@mjj3298]

You took the words right out of my mouth (in fact, I just made a comment about it before I read yours)! I see it all the time on social media - a video of some "sidestick/yoke action on landing" demonstrating a pilot grossly over-controlling the aircraft. Rapid movements all over the place that quite obviously have no impact on the aircraft's flight path, and almost always in perfectly calm conditions. It has become a pet peeve of mine that I frequently bring up to other pilots as a point of discussion, and it drives me nuts when I see it happening. You feel like just grabbing the yoke and holding it still and telling them "See? The plane isn't going anywhere, JUST RELAX!"...lol

[@francikaa1]

They've tried this in road haulage(England). There were not enough truck drivers, so the company created a program to get warehouse operatives to become truck drivers. Most of them failed their truck license test, and the ones that passed crashed the trucks at alarming rates. If you are not an airplane pilot from the beginning, or a truck driver from the beginning, you won't be a good one. That's the case 99% of the time.

[@hb1338]

The point about this pilot is not the late start so much as the *extremely* short time between him starting to fly and ending up flying a heavy commercial - less than half the time that the best pilots usually take.

[@bubblebus1]

It is not just the (as always) accurate, factual reporting but you add the insight regarding the current rapis turnover of crew and hence the increase in less experienced crew members. Thanks as ever.

[@russellmitchell8177]

Now it's registered with a salvage title😊

[@slol144]

Odds Jimmy will buy it

[@isflippin]

False, I just looked it up. It shows owned by United with a certificate valid through 03/31/2028

[@justanotheraviator2357]

Tis a joke​@@isflippin

[@russellmitchell8177]

@@justanotheraviator2357 thanks for that. Juan's channel is often very sobering. I was just going for levity. I didn't actually think these things would show up on carfax.

[@bobbys2160]

Retired 777 Captain a few years before retirement I began to see less experience pilots showing up on the 777. This is kinda worrisome for a little while but most were diligent about their duties. A few were lazy but mostly all flew well. "The old mantra was "Don't scare the Captain"

[@jonathanrabbitt]

They could've just cranked up the cabin pressure on the next flight and nobody would've noticed.

[@Andrew-13579]

Bondo and paint. 😄

[@paintnamer6403]

Just pop it back out into original form, genius!

[@brucesmith9144]

“They’ll be able to buff this out, no problem.”

[@PatBuckleyracecar]

And ignore the ear ache complaints from the whiny passengers😀.

[@mikefougere]

The "far side" repair crew..

[@garyhalmbacher6875]

Congrats on 500k subscribers Juan. This is rarified territory for subscribers on channels that provide real, serious information that matters.

[@metrocaptain]

Well put, Juan. This PIO happens more often than you'd think in heavy metal. There are a lot of lower time guys that have recently landed their dream job with the Legacy airlines and haven't had to pay their dues flying thousands of hours in medium and slightly larger aircraft. There is no replacement for thousands of landings in "time builder" jobs in light turbo-props and mid-sized jets to refine basic stick and rudder skills in something other than a light trainer. Some guys can get the hang of it, but for others that don't come to the heavy metal with lots of diversified experience, it's harder for them to get the feel of a heavy jet and all of the aerodynamic forces including the "stick and rudder" skills needed to land the aircraft in a very dynamic environment. I know you didn't say it, but the captain is required to arm the speed brake prior to landing. He should partly be held responsible for this too. *I think that the lack of speed brakes engaging at touchdown led to the FO not getting the normal pressures on the control wheel contributed to his error. Bummer.*

[@jemez_mtn]

^^^^ This last sentence is exactly what I was thinking and looking for in the comments.

[@philipjamesparsons]

Occasionally those speed brakes do not deploy automatically or are inop due to MEL restrictions. Any pilot who cannot deal with that inevitably should not be on a Boeing.

[@CharlesinGA]

A number of years back Royal Air Moroc wrinkled a fuselage on a 767 in a similar fashion. It was raining when the aircraft arrived at the gate and the flight crew wanted to know where the water was coming in from, thru the ceiling panels. We ended up repairing the aircraft in Atlanta.

[@Voltikz95]

Can i just say, love how you're able to take what is pretty complex information (looking at the graphs) and are able to explain it in a much simpler way. I am by no stretch of the imagination a pilot, but I do have some time flying around in sims, so I have what I like to think is a very basic understanding. It's nice to have someone break everything down to a level that's easily understandable

[@KVW110]

We had that airplane in for C check after it happened. Of course, the plane was delayed getting to us due to the incident.

[@VagabondTexan]

To be fair about missing the arming of the spoilers, the "arming" position on the 767 is not a hard detent. When I was a new Captain, there were a number of times that we landed with the speedbrakes not armed because even though it looked armed, it wasn't and there is no EICAS or discrete light to indicate it is in fact armed. We had a similar incident with a new FO. In reproducing it in the simulator, it happened so fast that the Captain was not capable of stopping the event even when they were warned.

[@philipjamesparsons]

I agree; there will be times that the speed brake does not deploy. I've flown airframes that were notorious for it. Dealing with speed brakes not deploying should be no big deal for even new Boeing pilots. The FO's catastrophic handling of a minor abnormal and attempting to dump blame on the other guy says it all about him.

[@peterredfern1174]

Great report Juan everything has to be done correctly specially on probation,safe flights mate,👋👋🙏🙏👍🇦🇺

[@patshozo9158]

Thank you for clarifying this incident. I always learn something from this channel.

[@alexmelia8873]

You talked about the “rocking and rolling” with the ailerons but what can be clearly seen in that is PIO in the lateral axis. He’s putting in too much aileron and as the aircraft responds, he fights himself with opposite control. Classic over controlling or “yoke pumping”

[@Heretic10001]

If that’s true that the guy who screwed up and got fired for it is now suing for defamation, that’s a really sad state of affairs. I hope the judge throws out the lawsuit and defames him some more for wasting everyone’s time and money!

[@MikenMpls]

Typically they are looking for a settlement and know they cant win the case.

[@USNveteran]

Had a friend that worked heavy maintenance for United in Oakland, he walked me through their facility pretty impressive. At that time (the late 1980's) they were doing quite a bit of heavy structural on 747's believe it was called a section 51. Reminded me of Piedmont's facility in Winston Salem where they manufactured quite a few of their Boeing parts in house, they had a lot of talented structural people too. FLY NAVY!!!

[@maryeckel9682]

The late lamented Piedmont

[@carlwilliams6977]

14:10 That would be a wild ride in the back of the plane!

[@obsoleteprofessor2034]

Can you imagine this guy's retirement party if someone gives him a gag gift of a model 767 with a Slinky as part of the fuselage between the nose and wings?

[@kabaddiify]

😂

[@ariochiv]

I think he is already involuntarily "retired." He caused several million dollars worth of damage to his aircraft, lied on the accident report, and is now suing the airline. Hard to imagine anyone ever hiring him again.

[@gglovato]

@@ariochiv yeah he pretty much filled the bingo card on "unhireable"

[@alexmelia8873]

Air marks has already made a model of this airplane with the green patch!

[@JamesTK]

@@ariochiv they were let go during their probationary period... and weren't that exemplary to begin with. Seems they're just bitter in trying to sue the airline...

[@Daveinet]

I am not a pilot, but something I learned in recovering a car from a slide. As you make corrections, wait a full second before making the second correction. So when the car slides, waiting that extra second prevents oscillation as the timing is not in rhythm with the event. This prevents over correction and operator induced oscillation. I would assume the same could be said for an airplane. On the other hand, once you know the vehicle, you can make your correction before the change in direction. I learned this with my motorhome, making steering corrections when being passed by semi's.

[@SnakebitSTI]

The "on the other hand" part is the most important: There's no replacement for practice. Knowing what to do intellectually can help, but it's slow, awkward, and can go out the window with panic. And we don't get to choose when we have a panic response. In the ideal case, you're cranking the steering wheel to counter the slide before you even realize you're sliding, because your brain felt the signs of a slide and responded on reflex. Developing reflexes takes repetition, but once you have the reflexes you're not thinking about how to turn the wheel and work the pedals, you're just thinking "make the car go that way".

[@MeppyMan]

Can also be made worse in aircraft as you get slight delays in response from input to hydraulic actuators moving the surface and then the aircraft reacting to the change aerodynamically.

[@Daveinet]

@@SnakebitSTI Or don't make the mistake that led you to the problem, as was the purpose of the video :) Yes, of course counter steering, but typically when you get in a bad situation, it was a reaction to someone abruptly cutting you off. You are already sliding due to a hard reaction to the unexpected. I didn't fully describe my actions. The correction is a quick correct and then back to straight. In other words, when I do the initial swerve, turn the wheel back to straight and then wait to see what direction the car is going to go next. The normal reaction is to swerve and then swerve back again. Its usually that second swerve that gets them into trouble. Watch most accidents. The car that wipes out, normally wipes out in the opposite direction from their initial reactionary swerve. That is where the swerve/return to center/wait comes into play. You have to wait for the car to settle to see where it is really going to go before reacting again. Otherwise you will oscillate worse and worse till you loose control.

[@rhodaborrocks1654]

It depends on the situation, if you waited a full second for any response at my local track you'd be in the barriers for sure.

[@SnakebitSTI]

@@Daveinet First off, making mistakes isn't a choice. "Just don't make one" is not an actionable decision. Second, yes, your description was clear. If you have to wait to see what the car will do, you're behind the curve. More practice is the solution, until you overwrite your brain's instinctive reactions which induce oscillation with reactions which keep the vehicle under control. Practice until the reaction becomes natural and unthinking. Do that before you need to drive in slippery conditions, for all the same reasons that pilots are supposed to train emergency scenarios rather than only memorizing what to do if things go wrong. Just a single weekend of driving school can make a huge difference. And then you can use skills maintenance as an excuse to go around corners sideways when it snows! (But jokes aside closed courses exist for a reason.)

[@stephenabbott3623]

Most GA pilots I’ve flown with are aware of PIO, but they still release back pressure too soon without realizing it. It’s a good idea to film your controls sometime during landing and review to see if you do it too.

[@royb.1441]

I had an exceptionally talented instructor who one time, after me being curious about it, and asking a bunch of questions, he just said "here let me just show you what it feels like, don't worry I will catch us before it actually gets bad..."Ive got the controls" I squeamishly replied that - he has em.....He then proceeds on landing to get it to minor bounce a couple of times before it ballooned way up and then we suddenly started dropping like a rock. He casually applied full power and gradually started pulling back back back and right before it felt like the ground was about to thwack us, he indeed caught it and we went around again. 😅 I never realized how good of a pilot he was until talking to other students and noticing their instructors didn't have any of these "here let me show you what " moments. Dont get me started on him showing me what the "Impossible turn" feels like. He was so much fun.

[@dashingexplorer2840]

I'm a current 767-300 pilot and I read much of the NTSB docket myself. I also read the court documents confirming that the pilot is suing UA. Boy, the FO sure fast tracked his career, aside from the flight attendant job with UA, I wonder how many airlines employed him in the past as pilot. He earned E-145 type-rating in Nov 2019. Just 5 months later, in April 2022, he got his CL65/CRJ type-rating which I assume is a new employer. No airline would allow you to switch equipment that quickly because it costs the airline a lot of money, therefore, he would have pissed off his first employer by jumping ship within 5 months of employment. Then, incredibly, 3 months later in July 2022, he got his E-170/190 type-rating. Meaning, he left his CRJ job as soon as he got the CRJ type rating, costing that second employer a shipload of money. For the uninitiated, it generally takes 3 months to get a new type rating in the airlines in the USA. If you lost count, he's now burned his bridges at two airlines in about 3.5 years, the ones that gave him the E-145 job and another that gave him the CRJ job. But wait, there's a 3rd to come. In January 2023 which is 6 months after he got his E-170 type, he burned the hand that fed him and rejoined United Airlines as a pilot, He was employed by same UA as flight attendant in March 2017 before presumably leaving to screw they other 3 regional airlines. He got his private pilot in December 2017 possibly while working as FA for UA. Three months after joining UA, he failed his 767 checkride but he passed it the next month on the second try in May 2023 which is only 10 months since his CRJ type rating, and only 3.5 years since his first airline job. I agree with this video's assessment that he clearly over controlled the 767 which is easy to do if you had just flown smaller regional jets. I know, because I flew 2800 hours in CRJ then 700 hours in the left seat of E-170 before moving to the 767. But, the captain is definitely culpable too because he (as pilot monitoring and PIC) did not arm the speed brake before landing. Not having the SB armed and therefore, deployed upon main landing wheels touching down makes it easier for the airplane to bounce up after initial touchdown. The FO then over reacted by pushing forward on the control excessively which caused the first nosewheel hard impact and the rest is history. I can't comprehend how he managed to convince the recruiters at United Airlines that they should hire him after burning bridges at 3 other regional carriers. Goes to show that just because you can sell used cars and convince recruiters, it doesn't mean you're a good pilot. Unrelated, but I noticed some serious errors in the NTSB report. One, the engines were stated to produce about 99k pounds of thrust. That would have made the 767 more powerful than 777x! Correctly, it should be 59-60k. Two, the MTOW is stated to be 350k lbs, it should be around 420k.

[@NWA320DRVR]

"I can't comprehend how he managed to convince the recruiters at United Airlines that they should hire him after burning bridges at 3 other regional carriers. Goes to show that just because you can sell used cars and convince recruiters, it doesn't mean you're a good pilot." Perhaps this is sarcasm, but if not I'm sure there was no convincing required. It was more likely the recruiters had open arms to welcome a former FA, turned pilot, into their ranks.

[@blancolirio]

Thanks for the detailed background info!

[@295692]

Good read of the record Dash. Reading the report, it would not be a stretch to opine there were two pilots on that flight deck who were out of their depth. There are considerations as why the FO may prevail in his legal action. First is the Captain. It wont be difficult to find aviation 'experts' to identify contributory liability. Second, discovery will reveal her professional history at UA. If it is anything other than squeaky clean that will be problematic for UA. Third, If UA training footprint utilizes a case by case 'subjective' standard to provide new hires additional training and OE experience instead of a clear cut one-size-fits-all template....and the FOs case can demonstrate he got one second less of a training/OE experience than some other new hire.......UA better stand by to pay up.

[@GlamorganManor]

Time in grade, while typically a policy requirement hurdle, is really something people should realize is valuable for their own competence in any field. I imagine this guy wanted to get to the prestige and financial rewards of a wide body at a major as soon as possible (and perhaps his FA time was somehow counted, making it a motivator to get back to UA), but it seems to me if he spent all 3 years prior to the UA move on one type he would have really consolidated some expertise by learning from a variety of captains he flew with, learned the nitty gritty details of the one airframe, and gained an appreciation for importance of depth of knowledge. I have a feeling this guy "didn't know what he didn't know" and probably would never figure that out.

[@NWA320DRVR]

@@295692 Don't forget the FO was on probation. They didn't meet standards and were let go.

[@l.antoinetteanderson3736]

Ah Juan! I took "the bait" when "fed" your Oroville Dam research some years back: "never looked back"! And in that time one of my sons has become GA pilot and another is planning to be A P Mechanic and hopes later to also fly GA! (my hx? a passenger with my parents flying Avalon Air in the 50's from Catalina island to Long Beach: ha!) I put my sons on to you back in the "Oroville Days": we always watch your presentations and they're often a start of discussion between us! Your theme music is a personal favorite!

[@milobarkymcbarkface6846]

Hi Juan, as an Engineer I really appreciate your using data to tell the story. Just a tip @8:42 (ca., you might find interesting): When I present multiple, synchronized data (for me engine parameters) where I need to show temporal relationships I draw a vertical line that serves as a temporal pointer over all plots of interest. In MS (Excel, Win, Ppt) this is easy. You have a pdf(?) here so I'm not sure if you have access to draw tools, but an import of this plot into MS would work. Your work is great, love the channel, please don't take this as anything more than a potential useful story tellling tip.

[@gregmeadors9624]

I learned how to fly and land in a Aeronca tail dragger. That required holding the stick full aft when flaring for the landing. Never have bounced on landing in any aircraft as a result.

[@davidfarrow875]

When things like this happen, it is always worthwhile looking at the staff selection and training process. While I was a train driver here in the UK, around the mid 2010s we had a number of issues with new drivers having safety incidents - missing stations stops, overrunning platforms, SPADs etc. The company followed laid down protocols for selection which included mental agility tests, concentration tests and the like. It was found that a number of internet sources had published copies of these tests such that prospective candidates were able to practice them over and over, thus learning how to pass the test when they probably should have failed it. The company changed their selection and training processes after that and 'newby' incidents dramatically reduced.

[@VagabondTexan]

It's not even to be blamed on the internet. There is an entire industry here in the states devoted to "test and interview prep". They have plenty of inside sources. Interestingly enough, I've spoken to several friends who are interviewers, and they are sick of canned answers.

[@Phiyedough]

Sounds like delicately and gently are the key words.

[@briansilcox5720]

In my twelve yrs flying 75, 767 at United, I recall becoming very sensitive to speed brake deployment, especially failure to deploy. It was not uncommon to set the speed brakes to arm, and the switch not quite making. In a 767 with 145kt approach ref, you need a timely speed brake deployment. Having low experience pilots in this situation compounds things. New hires are also flying in the left seat…

[@philipjamesparsons]

If a pilot cannot deal with a minor problem like the speed brake not deploying, what else are they unable to cope with? This was a super weak FO and it was just a matter of time before something happened.

[@pdxyadayada]

Thanks Juan! I think I’d be able to pass a pilot’s exam after watching enough of your videos. 🤣🤣

[@andywhite6713]

Very informative breakdown of events. I work in data and it was good to hear you say that it's all in the data. If it's interpreted correctly, you have the whole event played out in front of you as in the information that you presented here. Many thanks for this, kind regards from across the pond here in UK, Andy

[@dh05z28]

There's no reason to ever push the nose down after the mains contact. Aka; past the zero point. You are always behind zero after touch down. Back pressure....more or less. Never DOWN. Period. Ever. This avoids this happening all together.

[@GA-in4mw]

Outstanding, Juan, well explained. The San Francisco airplane crash was similar but with real bad consequences.

[@moletrap2640]

TED gave me a horrible flashback to the discount airline United started called TED back in the early 2000's. Some of the most uncomfortable no-frills cattle car flights.

[@pi.actual]

As employees the joke we had about it at the time was that it was UNITED without U 'n I

[@FlyingSenior]

A United bud told me they names it 'TED' because there wasn't any U-N-I (You-and-I).

[@FlyingSenior]

@ Thanks for the correction!

[@muwatter]

TED: it’s the end of United

[@FlyingSenior]

@ Hey, we had MetroJet at USAir. Remember them? Thought not! 🤣

[@65gtotrips]

Wow, back into service. The initial thinking was the hull, the fuselage, was a total loss. Pretty amazing.

[@pi.actual]

When you start logging more landings than take offs you're due for a review.

[@MarkTaylor19]

My son Flys into DC as captain of an Embraer 195 everyday. He mentioned the manuver redirected AA5342 from runway 01 to runway 33 rrquires a left bank lining up for final, which left the helo PAT25 in a blindspot.

[@SteveMetheny-o7z]

The speed brakes are deployed by Reverse Thrust. Reverse Thrust is inhibited until Weight on Wheels. AutoBrakes cause a pitch down and Reverse Thrust cause pitch up moment.

[@hb1338]

.. and a properly skilled and suitably experienced pilot deals with all that without even thinking about it.

[@ianjames1179]

Hope this guy has a great life, and a great career in what ever he decides to do. No apologies for saftey coming first.

[@shakey2634]

It has been mentioned by a couple other pilots that the 767 has a very, as one operator put it, “touchy” pitch after touchdown and until the nose is on the ground. Several things are happening, not quite all at once but in succession in a brief time span. It always felt to me that some of those things tend to drive the nose down and then one of them tends to lighten the nose or almost pitch it up. You have to give slight correction for each of those until you can get the nose firmly in the ground. It would be interesting to see this same data for a normal landing and I suspect it would look very similar to this in the elevator displacement and the control column displacement, just not quite to the extreme as we see here.

[@hb1338]

Pushing the nose down with main gear down is an absolute no-no.

[@H00L3y]

Hats off to the maintenance team! Great stuff getting her back in the air 🛫👨‍🔧

[@TheMotoRockers]

Just shows how quickly a small oversight can escalate into a major incident. Hope the pilot learns from this and we don’t have a more serious NTSB report involving this pilot down the road.

[@JeffinTD]

I wonder would that be the end of a probationary first officer’s career?

[@TheMotoRockers]

@ My brother could answer that better than me. He flies 747’s while I stick to GA. :)

[@hb1338]

The pilot is suing United on the grounds that the airline's defamatory statements have made him unemployable. I don't think he will be featuring in any more NTSB reports.

[@TheMotoRockers]

@ Unless he starts flying GA aircraft and crashes. At which point Dan Gryder will claim the person should have lost their license after the first incident. 😂

[@Eleighschu]

I flew my own GA planes for 50 years without any issues. Operating planes seemed to come easy to me but in that period I sure saw many who never seemed to catch on, and landings were most common problem, usually exactly like this one. Not everyone is meant to operate planes.

[@fastfiddler1625]

I always tried to harp on my students, the only pitch pressure you should be applying to the yoke on landing is towards you. More pressure, less pressure. If you're pushing that thing, you're about to have a bad day, and it's time to go around.

[@JonDrake1]

Exactly. I was taught many years ago that on landing the stick is a ratchet, it comes back but doesn’t go forward. Landing a 777 requires an easing of back pressure to fly the nose wheel on but never forward pressure.

[@jcheck6]

@@JonDrake1 Well true except on tailwheel planes. If making a wheel landing (versus a full stall landing) the stick goes slightly forward to plant the landing gear of course after the touchdown.

[@roviwoteap2375]

Great analysis of the data there, for us non pilots.

[@Moose6340]

They even track the squat switches in the FDR and for the nose gear too? Dang, didn't know that. These digital FDRs track are pretty amazing. We've come a long way from strips of foil with needles creasing it and only tracking four or five main parameters.

[@bmused55]

I honestly thought that 767 had flown its last and would be picked clean of parts. Amazing they repaired it!

[@stevenlevstik1020]

Once again, great job, Juan. Thanks

[@edgarmuller6652]

As you said Juan, the elevator overcontrol started on final approach, plus overcontrol of elevator on the runway. Seen it many times over the years, pilots will start to move the controls sideways and up and down in hopes to keep the aircraft on target , when it takes very small inputs to correct a wing down or up, since the inherent stability of the aircraft , is already correcting for it. At the end these over control movements, causes the PIO or pilot induced oscillation. On the B777 as it’s fly by wire it’s even more sensitive but hearing you recount the landing sequence, Boeing aircraft behave very similar. Thanks Juan.

[@walterhiegel3020]

When on probation and you cause that kind of damage to an airpland of course you will be terminated for cause. The pilot needs to smell the roses and find another career. I would definiutely want to fly with him ever. Its over! Personally I tried to become an air traffic controller and completely failed. Yes I changed carreer pursuits and probably saved lives doing so!

[@georgeconway4360]

They don’t require cause when on probation. Someone not liking you is enough.

[@hb1338]

If the (former) pilot wants to work in the aviation industry, he can go back to being a flight attendant.

[@ALASAT1]

Juan, this is your best one yet,!!! Greg Feith, you watchin?? This is the making of a future NTSB investigator....

[@w.peterroberts9624]

F/O was really low time and given the quals of many of the new hire pilots it's likely he was inexperienced by the standards that applied in previous years. A few years in an RJ would have helped him acquire the jet transport experience to avoid this type of accident. Nice repair I'm sure. Airline mechs are magicians.

[@philipjamesparsons]

He had 3000 hours which isn't that low. But, the report does not make it clear in what types. His career path, of "Flight Attendant" to wide body FO, seems weird. I wonder if it is a UAL, thing?

[@hb1338]

@@philipjamesparsons IIRC, three years flying regional jets and just over 100 hours on the 767. In my day, nobody with less than seven years in the airline ever got to fly the heavies.

[@Republic3D]

The captain's version is a two strike on the nose gear, not a triple.