I Flew the DC-3 (C-47) in Vietnam. One CAN encounter a problem on landing (or even takeoff, for that matter,) IF there is a strong quartering tail wind (i.e. wind from the rear). When that happens the big vertical tail surface, in that back, acts like a rudder with REVERSE command. In other words, during the landing rollout, normally when the pilot pushes the right rudder pedal down, the aircraft will turn right and vice-versa for the left. BUT....In a left quartering tail wind, if the pilot, pushes the right rudder pedal down...the aircraft turns LEFT! Explanation: The BIG vertical tail presents a larger surface, when the right pedal is depressed, to a left quartering tail wind,. As a result there is more force placed on the tail, from the wind, and that force tends to act as a torque to rotate the aircraft to the LEFT (instead of what the pilot THINKS should happen)OR... In other words, the tail acts like a big weather vain and rotates the aircraft in the OPPOSITE direction from the rudder pedal depression! Scary, if one does not anticipate that response. The pilot doesn't know "WHAT the hell" is going on. The fix: When the aircraft is in the landing rollout, or even still on the ground, during takeoff) the yoke must be brought back all the way, almost into the pilot's stomach. He then has to "bicycle pedal" the rudders to determine WHICH pedal depression will give him the response he's looking for. Don't know if the description above was a factor in this accident...but it may be one thing to consider. A lost engine, on takeoff, just makes the situation WORSE!
@RedBud3156 ай бұрын
I paid $12 in '93 to ride up in a DC-3 carrying skydivers up to see if I wanted to try diving myself. Also for the fact that I knew how historical the DC-3 was. I think the pilot cruised about 120 knots and then slowed to about 90 when they jumped from the plane. After they jumped the pilot invited me to sit in the co-pilot seat and when I went into the cockpit he was flying with his arm out the window like a farmer driving his truck down the road so I did the same, lol. That particular skydiving place had several accidents and rarely flew the DC-3 after that so I was very fortunate to get a chance to not only ride in one but, sit in the 2nd seat. I'm not a pilot but, love the channel and your explanations.
@stephanuslintvelt51083 жыл бұрын
Max Take-off weight take-off calls for max power against brakes (column in your stomach). The moment the brakes are released the column must go into the instrument panel to get the tail off the ground as soon as possible. Anyway that was the way we were taught in the South African Air Force many years ago. It worked for me.
@johnyves12465 ай бұрын
Greetings ! I was trained in Bloem in 82 . Flew the DAK until 85 ( lots of border duties ) then left the SAAF for an airline career ( B747 ) and retired in 2020. I loved that aircraft and I feel the SAAF gave us the best training in the world !
@blancolirio3 жыл бұрын
UPDATE-This video has been De-Monetized by the staff at KZbin. Thank you for your support on Patreon for making this content possible. www.patreon.com/user?u=5295000&fan_landing=true Without your support on Patreon I would not have the patience to put up with the children who run KZbin who continue to run Ads on MY De-Monetized content and take ALL the proceeds! Juan UPDATE: De-Monetized by KZbin- "Edited video gameplay with some clips that focus on graphic violence; moderate violence that shows blood; dead bodies prepared for burial or shown in historical events like wars, as part of a non-educational video" "This video is running limited or no ads due to content identified as not suitable for most advertisers. It remains fully playable and is eligible to earn subscription revenue from KZbin Premium." "After review, this video has been confirmed by manual review as not suitable for most advertisers. It remains fully playable and is eligible to earn subscription revenue from KZbin Premium."
@mytech67793 жыл бұрын
It might help if you made it more clear that everyone escaped without major injury, both in the title/description and earlier in the video. KZbin reviewers probably only have time for a quick skimming overview.
@laamatoro26843 жыл бұрын
YT certainly employs a lot of oversized children, but I also agree with mytech that the order of the video edit should put the "nobody died" and technical/educational discussion more upfront to help mitigate those of lesser cognitive strength.
@catherinenelson41623 жыл бұрын
I absolutely LOVE the "Apologies" to Lennon and McCartney!!! Glad everyone came out if the accident alive.
@Cougar12123 жыл бұрын
With the initial chord progression on guitar, I thought they were gonna break into "Gloria".
@musicloverme39936 ай бұрын
i approve this message,
@clarkkent79993 жыл бұрын
OMG! That cornball over the hill gang "Ticket to Ride" bit was just the tension reliever I needed for my 2020 bad news syndrome depression.
@craigpennington12513 жыл бұрын
Sometimes ya just gotta have an out.
@155mustang3 жыл бұрын
That DC-3 spin was the most fascinating thing I’ve seen.
@deweywatts84563 жыл бұрын
So many nuggets of wisdom about the DC3 here, I think I'll watch it again.
@FlightSimulatorXATC3 жыл бұрын
Juan - as a newly minted CFII I will be saving your walk around of the Mighty Luscombe/DC3 video in my bag of tricks to help explain AOA and stalls. This was so great. Thanks so much!
@machwillie95232 жыл бұрын
My sweetheart is a thirty-three-year-old Medevac pilot, here in the US. He's type-rated on the Embraer 145. He currently flies a Pilatus pc-12 and a Beechcraft King Air. I met him about six months ago and I am officially obsessed with aircraft. I knew nothing about planes or flying before. I just found your videos and I love the expertise!!! You seem like a pretty awesome guy. Thanks for making your channel ♡♡♡
@paulspencer8893 жыл бұрын
A few observations (from a couple of thousand hours, captain C47s) This was not so much a rudder problem (although that can bite severely), this was a premature unstick problem. As you say, the control column is held full forward, until a flying speed is reached - to pin the aircraft to the runway. You cannot allow a premature lift-off, as you saw from this accident. (In other words, you get the tail up to STOP the wing flying. You cannot have the wing flying, before she is ready to lift.) Regards comment from the captain that the co-pilot was applying forward pressure too early. Utter nonsense. The control column should be held hard against the instrument panel from the first application of power. That tail ain’t going to lift unless you have a 40 kt headwind, and even it it does, the C47 cannot tip on its nose. I did see a C47 ding the pitot tubes and the propeller-tips in a nose-tip, but that was due too much braking. Also, you do not achieve engine-out flying speed at take-off. This is a Performance-X aircraft. - not Performance-A - the V2 decision is only achieved once the gear is up, because at max wt you are going nowhere if the gear will not retract. So the normal solution is if an engine quits prior to gear-retract, you have to put it down again. Also, on landing as soon as the main wheels touch, you push the control column forward onto the instrument panel, as you saw with the South African C47 landing. This stops any bounce, and you cannot tip her over - not possible. And even if you wanted to hold off (which would be highly inadvisable) you cannot 3-point a C47. Simply not enough elevator authority, especially when fully laden. Note: the C47 can be a real beast to the unwary. Most new pilots cannot even taxi the thing. It is always interesting to see pilots transition from complete inexperience-incompetence, to landing safely in a 25 kt crosswind, in approx three to four months of commercial flying. P
@jasons7573 жыл бұрын
Very happy to read the real take on this from someone that has experience.
@tomsmith30453 жыл бұрын
Fantastic info. After landing, do you keep the column forward until the tail comes down on its own, or do you bring it down gently before it stalls down?
@mytech67793 жыл бұрын
@@tomsmith3045 I don't think the tail could stall down as it is basically at zero AoA when the tail is up.
@mytech67793 жыл бұрын
At what point after touchdown do you pull back to counter braking moment or is normal braking force only dependent on the main gear to cg moment?
@tomsmith30453 жыл бұрын
@@mytech6779 As the plane slows, it'll stall. The lift of the tail is the only thing keeping it in the air, and the airflow over it is the only thing creating that lift. The question is, will it come down nice and smoothly, like on most little planes, or will it come down fast and bounce?
@Sailor376also3 жыл бұрын
Blancolirio, you are good. The DC-3 is an incredibly forgiving aircraft. That the C-47 recovered from that spin with a single revolution does not surprise me. The skydivers were negligent. When you line up, particularly if putting people out on the skin,, you don't snooze. You get it done and you get out of there. Also the congregation around the door. No, you line up with face on the guy's rig in front of you, everyone ,usually, with left foot forward to begin a synchronized exit, stretching up the center line of the aircraft. I blame the skydivers for that milling cow situation. I have spotted dozens of times,, exited DC-3s and C-47s hundreds of times, sat the right seat once (for just a few minutes, pilot had to take a leak). Your footage of the Springbok pilot was a thing of beauty. And your description was far beyond my knowledge. I learned something today. Thank you. You have taught me so much and so many times. I appreciate your knowledge. I hope I am so fortunate to be your passenger some day.
@markthompson48853 жыл бұрын
As a former paratrooper you are right about the chinese fire drill at the door. the last two jumpers didn't make it out until after spin recovery.
@MrRem76003 жыл бұрын
@@markthompson4885 yeah that's not how skydivers work in the civilian world - what you saw in the DC3 footage is completely standard ops for them regardless of aircraft type
@cspruitt31903 жыл бұрын
"Ticket to Ride". Hilarious. Thank you Juan
@pettergardo38743 жыл бұрын
Apologies to🤣
@stevet81213 жыл бұрын
Juan, your aviation knowledge never ceases to amaze me. I would fly with you any time.
@jjthomas22973 жыл бұрын
Just wanted to thank you, man. You keep all of us at United/LAXMM informed. We always start the shift checking out what is new on your channel. Oh yea, and always remember...do all your cabin write ups AFTER takeoff! Namaste, Brother
@reevinriggin35703 жыл бұрын
Thank You for taking the time to explain the technical aspects of "wash out and wash in". I now get the picture of stall characteristics much more clearly and the why as to how the stall occurs and where the buffet comes from. GREAT info for me as I am still a student pilot and feel the more I understand aerodynamics the better I can understand how to fly and why we do what we do when we fly and train. Many thanks.
@ivansemanco69763 жыл бұрын
I made my license on taildragger TMG with tandem landing gear and I remember how difficult was for me to learn propper rudder handling as I made very heavy inputs at beginning and not adjust them after tail wheel comes from the ground. It takes a lot of time and my instructor nerves to teach me this. And this was at light low power airplane, cant imagine the heavy and powerfull DC3. Thanks Juan for nice explanation.
@reverdywinfree37583 жыл бұрын
Excellent commentary, sad to lose another historic aircraft. Thanks for the insight & Ticket to Ride!
@MrWizard2093 жыл бұрын
Even though it sounds like they didn't really break any rules, it does seem like caution was not taken when it came to how the pilot had no seat time with a dc3 let alone a heavy dc3. Thanks again for your excellent coverage of aviation news Juan.
@barrykaine65263 жыл бұрын
Agreed, it seems like an odd choice of timing to let the less experienced pilot handle a take off, which he was unfamiliar with, while hauling passengers. If it wasn't a training flight, (which it wasn't), without passengers, he should not have been pic, (bad call by the crew.)
@cerealspiller3 жыл бұрын
@@siamsamblue30041 Ye olde "common sense" vs "what's required"
@murphsmodels88533 жыл бұрын
I hate to be "that guy", but it seems like the safety culture at the Commemorative Air Force is "Meh, load the paying customers, we'll fix it later".
@scottontheboat23403 жыл бұрын
Tough life Juan-- Ride your motorcycle to the airport , fly the Luscombe, meet some flyin friends ,play music , fly your 777 to Narita and eat fresh SUSHI , and get paid 😳🤴
@nmnmnm353 жыл бұрын
Its quite literally what I dream of, amazing isn't it?
@gusm51283 жыл бұрын
Apart from the flying bit
@JBAutomotive7943 жыл бұрын
Sign me up too
@ZeitGeist_TV3 жыл бұрын
I don’t understand the hypocrisy in demonetizing this channel when plenty there is content with air crash investigation and break downs with information including many incidents where no passengers survive. Informal and educational videos with content creators such as Juan Brown who has the credentials to speak on these matters in ways others can’t.
@harrickvharrick39572 жыл бұрын
Yes regrettably KZbin is a rather horrible platform that way
@lembriggs10753 жыл бұрын
What he have here folks is a takeoff stall followed by a spin to the right and then a “Secondary Spin” to the left which was aggravated by the “P-factor”, Torque, spiraling slipstream, and I’m guessing the pilot might have relaxed his RH rudder pressure when the plane started spinning to the right. All in all, you guys are correct and I believe both pilots failed by lack of ADM skills, piloting skills, and the Captain should’ve performed the takeoff rather than let the “new guy” try it while barking out commands. What a circus! They should have never let the plane get so close to stalling or even flying speed or V-1 speed without the tail up and flying in the clean air. What a lesson to be learned here. Anyone arguing this or not understanding this has absolutely no business flying a DC-3. There’s way too many pilots emphasizing trimming for “hands free flight” and then letting the plane fly them! I can see that from the beginning of the takeoff, both the PF (pilot flying) and the PM (pilot monitoring ie: the guy who suggested not trying to get tail up too early), were both riding as passengers, all the way to the crash. Also, I do believe that during an aft CG takeoff in a DC-3, if you aren’t able to get the tail off/up, early in the takeoff roll, it will become increasingly difficult to raise the tail as the main wing starts making lift and is taking weight off the mains. I don’t think they even had a chance in preventing a stall at that point. And yes, I just watched the video again and at the point just before liftoff and even up until the brief spin to the right and then left, there was not even a single attempt to get the tail up and flying. There was only neutral and/or up elevator deflections, and no down commands. It’s as if the PF was either completely dumbfounded or was thinking he wanted some kind of “3 point” takeoff. Maybe these planes should not be flown by volunteers if this is what we get? Can easily tell that they lifted off well below Vmc speed. Had they lost either engine, the roll (spin) would’ve been worse and probably would’ve been no one but witnesses to tell the story. :-(
@bcgrittner3 жыл бұрын
Great ending. That video of the DC - 3 doing a power-on stall was scary. That pilot must have had all the heavy handed counter moves. I spun a Cessna 150 once (major stupidity). All the reflexive control inputs had no effect until I realized what had happened. Then I remembered the spin recovery technique from the training manual. OK- forward yoke, neutral aileron, opposite rudder - problem solved. At that point I called it a day and flew directly back to the airport. I learned about flying from that. I never did it again. I notice that spins are "prohibited by owner" in the Cessna 152. I am currently grounded - medical. I fly right seat with friends on rare occasions. You're never too old to learn. Right ? That was an outstanding video, Juan.
@timjones75473 жыл бұрын
Spun a Cherokee 140 doing power-on stalls. My instincts to recover all wrong. Glad the instructor was with me.
@bcgrittner3 жыл бұрын
@@timjones7547 At the FBO where I flew there was an instructor called Paul The Stall. Oddly, I never had him for an instructor. I had the base hothead. Sometimes a bit of reading can make a difference - trust me. Glad you lived to tell your story another day. I hope your CFI debriefed about that incident. Happy landings !
@jimarcher52553 жыл бұрын
When I learned to fly spins were just part of the curriculum. Glad to have the experience, but probably a good thing it isn’t required today.
@greyjay92023 жыл бұрын
I had a friend who was a pilot for Northeast Airlines, flying DC-3's. He had the right temperament for the job. Calm, meticulous, attentive. He went on to work as an air traffic controller in the Boston center. I flew in DC-3's on Northeast Airlines, and also on United Airlines, between Salt Lake and Elko. I always enjoyed my flights in the DC-3, but I can see that you really have to know what you're doing, to handle the characteristics of the type. If you lose focus, the DC-3 will fly you.
@billcallahan93033 жыл бұрын
Back in the 70s there was a bad Lodestar stall / crash with skydivers...too many at the back trying to exit out a small door...long fuselage didn't help. Great report Juan!
@Palmit_3 жыл бұрын
That bass strum. ❤. Defeating cancer. Teaching, showing and encouraging aeronatutical saftey. Even before Petey get's in a plane... that little chap has extremely complex training and awareness thanks to Juan. The vids of motor trail across US, the camera work, the time just sharing and putting together the knowlege in an age/world where 30 seconds waiting for a coffee is an offence! Does Juan even have any weakness? Blancolirio doesn't. Keep doing what you do sir.
@blancolirio3 жыл бұрын
Very lucky!
@tomsmith30453 жыл бұрын
The crash is tragic, hope everyone recovers ok, and Juan your coverage is spot on as usual. We need to get better at this, or these old planes won't be flying anymore. Completely agree of course about getting that tail up early. It's not intuitive, but it's so much better than trying to fly the plane off the deck 3 point. Watching the video, I kept asking myself "why isn't the tail up?". One thing I'd add, though, was the lack of coordination between pilots. I think the left seat guy is at fault here, too. From the description, the right seat guy was unsure of his skills. If I'm left seat, and I hear that, I'm going to either say "why don't I fly this one, and you follow me on the controls", or "you fly it, but I'll be with you on the controls and if things get weird I'll take over". Because during takeoff is a really tricky time to do a control handoff, especially tailwheel. The left seat guy let the plane get to a point where he couldn't recover it, or his recovery was incorrect, clearly. I'm not saying this to beat anyone up, just to suggest that CRM requires some coordination beforehand. Like most, this crash didn't have to happen.
@stephanuslintvelt51083 жыл бұрын
Oh the sound of those P&W's during take-off! The only aircraft with the roar to give me goose bumps
@geeeeeee3 Жыл бұрын
I have never flown a more docile twin than the DC3. It's slow forgiving and lumbering. He must have worked hard to crash this AC. Then again it was a CAF. Great report on the check pilot. 100% correct.
@virginiatolles16643 жыл бұрын
Heartbreaking incident. Excellent report. Gotta pop the tail wheel. The Commemorative Air Force crew when I flew on That's All Brother in March of 2019 really knew what they were doing. I could follow the takeoff roll: Roll, tail wheel goes up, roll on main gear, and liftoff. The reverse upon landing. Perfect! The best part: The characteristic drone of those Pratt & Whitney 1830s. Beautiful sound!
@ericjanson23283 жыл бұрын
Juan - it's not correct to state the the rudder is 'blanked out' in a tail low condition. The DC-3 rudder is effective as soon as you release the brakes. There is plenty of airflow from the engines at all times. The main reason to raise the tail on take-off is to prevent the aircraft getting airborne at too low a speed. The DC-3 will get airborne well below Vmc if the tail is not raised. This is what happened here - airborne at too low a speed and excessive control inputs caused what looks like an aileron stall.
@ericdepetris50413 жыл бұрын
Great info.
@ericjanson23283 жыл бұрын
Some more background info. Depending on how it's loaded - the DC-3 may require a lot of forward pressure on the yoke to get the tail up. I recall needing to push hard with both hands to get the tail up. We had a rule that if the tail wasn't up by 60 knots we had to abort the take-off. There is a lot of P factor as the tail comes up/down. Aircraft will want to go left on take-off as the tail comes up and right on landing as the tail comes down.
@digitalchaos19802 жыл бұрын
@@ericjanson2328 Loving the information! I have a question, if I may. What causes that left pull on take off and right on landing? Is it a characteristic of the airframe design or a slight difference in power between the two engines (unlikely) ? I am quite curious of this. Thank you in advance! 😎
@I_SuperHiro_I2 жыл бұрын
@@ericjanson2328 what causes the torque steering?
@Dr_PeeWee Жыл бұрын
@@digitalchaos1980 @Super Hiro Since no one has answered you yet: P-Factor is the tendency for an aircraft to yaw to the left due to the descending propeller blade on the right producing more thrust than the ascending blade on the left. This occurs when the aircraft's longitudinal axis is in a climbing attitude in relation to the relative wind. "This can occur in climbs, during the landing flare (and in power-on landings), in slow flight, or in tail-dragger airplanes." - Airplane Academy "Taildraggers or planes with “conventional” landing gear will experience P-factor during the takeoff roll, unlike most tricycle gear airplanes." - Airplane Academy "This is because the propeller is naturally tilted up due to the low tail wheel." - Airplane Academy "Remember to make good rudder inputs during your takeoff roll in taildraggers. Luckily, taildraggers usually have large, effective rudders which can counteract strong left turning tendencies, even at low airspeeds." -Airplane Academy However, from what I've learned, it will cause the aircraft to Yaw to the left even on the landing because the blades will pitch back to where the right side is creating more thrust than the left as the tail comes down (high angle of attack). What eric was referring to sounds like "Negative P-Factor" and is usually only felt during descent or Negative AOA. I am not rated for any aircraft yet but am going through ground school for my PPC. Source: airplaneacademy.com/aircraft-p-factor-explained-with-pictures-and-video/
@johnstreet8193 жыл бұрын
Juan your broadcasts are amazing. I learn things from you I didn't even know I didn't know. Keep it up my friend, you are helping us all.
@stevet81213 жыл бұрын
"Apologies to McCartney/Lennon".....cracked me up! LOL!
@timgallagher10413 жыл бұрын
Totally agree!! But it was actually pretty good!!
@jah0nix3 жыл бұрын
jep, this tiny little remark made my day! (And the performance actually wasn't that bad BTW) -> reminds me of the "who watches til the end" contests...
@leanbean83762 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the ending treat guys!!, Y'all really knew how too make em laugh😂..."not bad"
@thomasbayer24292 жыл бұрын
Watch the beatles sing ticket to ride, on ed sullivan....real music...from a real decade. Music was cool...cars were cool...and even the cops were cool, I know, cause I was 9 years old in 1965, and the 60s can't be beat....🎶"I think I'm gonna be sad...I think it'd todayyyy yeahhh🎶" anyway thanks for the tail dragger schooling, never flew one, but good insight.
@winniethepoohandeeyore23 жыл бұрын
Wow, I appreciate your work into these videos
@lifeoutdoors2day3573 жыл бұрын
The end of this video are two friends living their best life. Love it
@ZacYates2 ай бұрын
Fascinating stuff for a lifelong warbird fan who first flew in a DC-3 before he was ten. What a sad loss of airframe but so relieved everyone got out. “Our hero Dan Gryder” - hasn’t aged terribly well!
@j.gregory56693 жыл бұрын
Dear Lord I pray that Juan Browne never says my tail number on a KZbin video. Great learning experience & surprise guest, also! Well done.
@richardbowles76903 жыл бұрын
Sad ending for a historic Gooney Bird. Thanks, Juan, for all the insights.
@pricep120083 жыл бұрын
14 commercials. KZbin is trying to force people to pay for premium services. Love the channel ❤
@blancolirio3 жыл бұрын
Ad free over here on Patreon www.patreon.com/user?u=5295000
@CrazyPetez6 ай бұрын
Thanks Juan. As a non-pilot, I learned a lot about the DC3.
@chrisc18113 жыл бұрын
Something that is apparently no longer taught is the use of differential power to help with longitudinal control at slower speeds in the DC-3. That was taught during WWII, with higher powered light bombers, and is effective in the DC3 as well as the C-46. I successfully employed the technique once in a DC-3 take off in 1983. I’ve seen it successfully employed by a C46 takeoff in Laredo as well. We often flew at really high gross weights and aft CG, 26000, lbs +. We never pinned the yoke immediately on takeoff, to avoid unnecessary drag and protect the elevator from damage on unimproved runways. Unlike a 777, that airplane requires a degree of feel, vs purely by the numbers. 50 kts was the go/no go for the tail to fly. If it didn’t you would abort because of too aft CG, or too heavy, over 31,000 lbs. That happened to me once, in 1982. Training on DC-3’s these days is too much like training in a Champ or a Luscombe. You must stay ahead of the mass, with the controls. Asymmetric thrust can be your friend, if managed properly, from brake release on the ramp, until parking again.
@pattyhaley9594 Жыл бұрын
The crew of the DC 10 that landed or crashed in Iowa sure knew thank goodness
@MrMattumbo3 жыл бұрын
Those skydivers got a hell of a thrill ride out of that ride. It's surreal even on 90s' tape to see the aircraft falling below the skydivers, I can't imagine what that was like in person. That and being sucked out of the plane lol, really lucky no one smacked the tail on their way out.
@theflyingfool3 жыл бұрын
Love the rolling shutter effect on that big ol' double bass Juan!
@jeromeervin59473 жыл бұрын
We have a saying in the texas hill country. "It's called Burnet durnit." Its pronounced burn it.
@flyerjack15483 жыл бұрын
Burnet , durnit, ... learn it !
@adamwhite98543 жыл бұрын
I was humming that tune to my wife the moment I heard the phrase.....then at the end you broke out the duet, well done! 👍
@dangryder37633 жыл бұрын
It was Juan's idea - he is always talking me into that stuff...
@gregoryknox44443 жыл бұрын
That was very informative gentlemen. I got a few hours in a C120 and Aeronca Champ. I've always admired the DC3. Merry Christmas guys.
@johnblecker42063 жыл бұрын
Good a recent updated video so thank you again. Excellent interview with Dan on the camera also.
@kencohagen49673 жыл бұрын
I’m glad everyone got out, I wish the entire crew a speedy recovery. The loss of this DC3 breaks my heart. I was lucky enough to have taken a 30 minute flight on one over the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. It was the most pleasent flights I’ve ever had before! The video of the DC3 landing is incredible in how long it keeps the tail flying. This is one well designed plane!
@INFOOL73 жыл бұрын
Too funny with so much going on you found a way to get me to laugh with your impromptu unplugged "Ticket to Ride" tarmack session. Good work Brownie!
@thomasgreen16883 жыл бұрын
Great presentation Juan. As usual, I learned some today thanks to your immense efforts and thank you for the opportunity.
@phantomf4g3043 жыл бұрын
Juan, I picked up your channel here during the Camp fire series. My office is at McClellan Park so I see much of the traffic coming in an out as out loading dock backs up to the tarmac within 50 fee by the tower. Not only do I appreciate your knowledge but your passion is conveyed to your viewers, for some of us in real time as Blancolirio world headquarters is about 30 miles north of my location. Keep on keeping on good sir. Merry Christmas and happy landings!
@scottp.51613 жыл бұрын
Thank you Juan for covering this incident. It is a great day when The Blancolirio channel has a new video uploaded. Bonus points for linking the Dan Gryder YT channel.
@MauricioPCZ3 жыл бұрын
Hey Juan, just to tell you that I got several ads showing so the video seems to be monetized now (manual review?)
@bassntruck3 жыл бұрын
Just YT stealing money from creators. Nothing to see here.
@josh37713 жыл бұрын
7 midroll ads on my end
@pabloata47083 жыл бұрын
Buscando material para futuros videos jajaj =D
@Studio23Media3 жыл бұрын
KZbin often still shows ads on demonetized videos, they just won't give any money to the creator for that video. It's a massive scam.
@ClumsyCars3 жыл бұрын
@@Studio23Media yea it is.
@2011mendo3 жыл бұрын
Loved the show. After watching the entire 7 months or so with, Plane Savers, I feel a whole new appreciation for the DC3. My first real interaction was with Shawnee Airlines in the mid 70's when I started working at PBI. Ironically, when getting my A&P, my practical was with the jug of the DC3-1800. AND, haven't touched one since!!! So I enjoy watching anything on this AC. This was a sad deal. Sure have to wonder just how heavy that ass end was!!! Keep it up, another great vlog. BTW, neither of you should quit the day job... But loved the ending, it's fun.
@Secretarian3 жыл бұрын
Love that blancolirio Unplugged moment at the end. Awesome!
@johnrenoveillon38413 жыл бұрын
From a non-pilot fan/follower of your page, I enjoyed the tag. I didn't know that you played bass... great job!
@fjr2go3 жыл бұрын
Dan is a great instructor; seen quite a few videos of him. Good to have him in this video.
@idanceforpennies2813 жыл бұрын
It's all covered in the tailwheel training, but it must feel a little weird to push the stick/column forward to get the tail up,and then back to actually take off.
@tomsmith30453 жыл бұрын
It is weird. The first time you do it, single engine plane of course, you're worried about a prop strike. But in most planes a prop strike is impossible, the tail just won't come up high enough. And a potential problem is that in some tailwheel planes you can safely take off in a three point stance. Just let the plane fly up. Some people teach it that way, but I always found it uncomfortable. Instead, I learned "tail up" as soon as possible, to improve control and visibility, as Juan showed on the video. Granted, my flights are all on little planes, but it's the same procedure.
@blancolirio3 жыл бұрын
Standard procedure
@souocara38able3 жыл бұрын
If it feels weird to somebody that person isn't ready to fly the plane in anything other than more training.
@tomsmith30453 жыл бұрын
Maybe better to say it feels weird initially, because it's counter-intuitive. As is pushing forward as a reaction to lack of lift. Both are counter-intuitive, but both become, or should become automatic responses. It is standard procedure to bring the tail up. But some pilots do bring the tailwheel up, but low, putting the wing at an AOA suitable for takeoff and let the plane fly up on it's own, or maybe more accurately keeping the controls neutral and letting the tail come up on it's own. That's not great technique, and it's dangerous in cross wind, but I've seen pilots do it, and even teach it. My point is that I agree with dance, that a lot of tailwheel flying, and flying in general, isn't intuitive, seems weird, and requires training. Bad habits that you can get away with in some aircraft can bite you in others.
@tomsmith30453 жыл бұрын
@@k9killer221 Tail lift isn't an indication that you're close to minimum take-off speed. You can lift the tail on many aircraft in 20 feet or less, as the tail stall speed is normally much lower than the wings. The main reason to get the tail up, besides visibility, in the planes I fly is that it keeps the plane on the ground before it's ready to fly. Having one wing start flying while the other is still stalled, because of a cross wind, is a fairly lousy situation. I'm not advocating keeping the tail down! Quite the opposite. I'm just saying that there are people flying tailwheel out there that do it, and it's a bad habit. (I'm glad this discussion didn't devolve into the wheel/3-point landing thing...) :)
@nicolassales86793 жыл бұрын
There is a fascinating BBC program about an RAF fast jet pilot learning to fly a spitfire. The first thing they did was put him in a DC3 because it is a tail drager. He found it very different and the training pilot was hilarious yelling at him to fly it properly. He flew the spitfire beautifully due to his DC3 flights, superb training and RAF background. Here in the UK airshow flying has been seriously curtailed after one idiot decided to fly an old hawker hunter into the ground killing several people but not himself! The restrictions will be permanent because quite rightly our Civil Aviation Authority cannot risk another incident. You will have the same problem in the US if you are not careful.
@FlywithMagnar3 жыл бұрын
The analogy of a boxing match is great. My instructor told me to kick the rudder like riding a bicycle. That was in a Cub, so it didn't need large inputs, but they should be crisp.
@sarahalbers55553 жыл бұрын
"If you ca.n taxi it; you can fly it". Well, not really.
@pat36a3 жыл бұрын
Yet the pilot did the Taxi, then handed it over to the Co Pilot.
@EddieLeeFunn3 жыл бұрын
Perhaps, this is more of a guideline than an actual rule...?
@markuswx13223 жыл бұрын
To think that guy had 4,000 hours in the DC-3 and still said that to a noob. The interviewee at the end of the recording is right, this endangers the FAA exemption for ridehoppers. - I was in the cockpit of that aircraft one day in the hangar about a year before the crash. I was surprised how little they knew about it when I asked a relatively simple question. OK, the pilot wasn't there that day, but it doesn't inspire confidence about how much they know about these war birds. The DC-3 is said to be a dream in the air, but like any plane its characteristics during takeoff and landing are critical. The FAA should require takeoffs at full load before type-certifying a pilot.
@morrisnorwood3513 жыл бұрын
The co-pilot should have never been signed off. Tail draggers are beasts if you don't have a lot of experience. "Good attitude" means nothing. One must know how to fly the aircraft in all configurations--or at least the one they are flying. The pilot who signed him off is responsible for this great loss. RIP Blue Bonnet Belle.
@GUIRADE952 жыл бұрын
@@markuswx1322 got that right can't say it any better,.
@JeffinTD3 жыл бұрын
Though putting people and rare airplanes in danger is unacceptable, you don’t really get the experience of a vintage aircraft by looking at it in a museum. I hope they continue to fly, but more safely.
@jackoneil39333 жыл бұрын
10:50 Beech Barons, have a very similar wing design (Long, tapered, constant-cord wing) and similar power-on stall characteristics. Also the Baron like the old Cessna 401s looses a lot of vertical stab effectiveness at high-angle of attack. I ended up doing an stall-spin in a B-55 Baron during VMC training once when I could not apply full right-rudder due to the heel of my right foot being restricted by a sheet metal cover below the rudder peddles. My instructor barked "FULL RUDDER!" and abruptly planted his #12 boot on the right rudder, and the induced yaw caused the right wingtip to instantly stall, and the what ever airflow remained over the vertical stab to separate, and with full power on the right engine, even with abrupt full-down elevator the aircraft yawed violently left and rolled inverted. We did just what the DC-3 did in the video but and managed a similar recovery, but with only a few hundred feet to spare. Much appreciation on this one Juan as the content here is life-saving.
@micksanger62743 жыл бұрын
Thank You, Juan. Very informative. The ending was amazing!
@AirJockey1003 ай бұрын
I commend you for using Dan for an example of how to operate the DC-3. He may be an interesting person but he has his strong points just like everyone m. 👍
@paratyshow3 жыл бұрын
Sad story, well presented Juan. Last minute of the video is the best work ever seen on your channel!!!
@57Jimmy3 жыл бұрын
Hey! Are you Juans Mom? A voice only a mother...! Lol! Much better than I could do Juan😂
@reddog-ex4dx3 жыл бұрын
Well covered, Juan. I felt like I was watching an NTSB report that was just the highlights. But, 3 to 4 hours is a little tough to just watch in one sitting. Thanks for the Readers Digest report and the silly Ticket to Ride cover! HA!
@turbofanlover3 жыл бұрын
I mean, I feel like a broken record but...spectacular stuff, Juan.
@marshie13373 жыл бұрын
thank god everyone survived. sad to see such a gorgeous plane go but at least we can be thankful there were zero casualties.
@doncampbell73033 жыл бұрын
Juan, I'm a new subscriber and very afraid to fly. But, I really like your channel.
@dks138273 жыл бұрын
go flying asap, please.
@jandejong24303 жыл бұрын
I fly DA40s. Extremely docile, strong, very safe. Recommended.
@blancolirio3 жыл бұрын
Welcome aboard!
@doncampbell73033 жыл бұрын
@@blancolirio : Hey, thanks!
@Chevy4x4dawg3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review of this incident. I saw this beautiful bird just a week prior to the crash. Just one comment the city of Burnet is pronounced Burn it. The locals have a saying " It's Burn it, dern it, can't ya learn it.".
@happyhome413 жыл бұрын
There was good reason in days gone by that airports had tri-runways. I can still hear my instructor in the 8KCAB yelling in the intercom "ALL the stick, ALL the stick". LOVE the music add on.
@fishon84063 жыл бұрын
USAF Retired, 1,500 hrs IP, 1,000 PIC, Co-pilot and Student. IP in T-38 and Beech King-Air 200. PACAF/SEF, USAF MIshap Investigation Trained. All this analysis is spot on. I would add though, that not much is mentioned about the Pilot letting the co-pilot go too far. Additionally, it is always wise to get the intel from their trainers if they are new to the plane, to get some insight into their weaknesses. Training training training. Unfortunately, you can sum up this one as the Co-pilot being taken for a ride. My first IP in the Cessna 172 in Hondo TX said, "Fly the Plane!" This poor guy was a passenger. I put much blame on the PIlot. My other axiom was, Never Trust Anyone in the other seat - no matter the experience. Watch them like a hawk.
@nothingtoseehere40263 жыл бұрын
Another great informative video. Jam session at the end was cool too. Hope to see more of that.
@jeffdetwiler3 жыл бұрын
Thanks again Juan for your in-depth yet completely understandable commentary. I learned a bunch!!!! But I had forgotten what a studied bass fiddle player you were.. ;-) Awesome video ending to a tragic aviation accident.
@alantoon57083 жыл бұрын
The CAF has had a long and sad history of destroying historic classic aircraft (B-26, A-20, CASA HE-111, etc.) Glad that everyone got out. Wonder what was learned here?
@charlesfaure11893 жыл бұрын
@Guy Incognito Ugh. Then perhaps granting exemptions to allow their use for LHFE work wasn't such a good idea?
@glevideo3 жыл бұрын
Many years ago I made several sport jumps from a DC-3. All the seats were removed, the aft door removed and then loaded with about 40 skydivers (can't remember the exact number). We flew to 15,000 feet where we all stood up and started marching toward the door trying to get as many out the door as fast as we could. I remember that as we marched toward the door at the tail of the aircraft it felt like walking on a trampoline as the tail bounced up and down with all the weight of the jumpers shifting about. I can imagine it must have felt very unsettling in the cockpit.
@thomasrapp25363 жыл бұрын
"Ticket to ride" Don't give up your day job. LOL Keep up the great work you do here.
@HVACRBERT3 жыл бұрын
Welp didn’t read before I commented. You beat me to that!!!!
@plnmech3 жыл бұрын
Juan, you and Dan are right the problem is inadequate training. During WW2 Thousands of relatively young and inexperienced pilots were trained to fly this air plane by the military and most of their flights were with very heavily loaded air planes. If this was an air plane issue it would have been discovered right away.
@roberthayes92415 ай бұрын
But Dan signed is Type Cert!
@EvanOutdoors3 жыл бұрын
Apologies to Lennon/McCartney... I love it! Wasn't that bad actually as an old muso myself. Great detailed update as usual. Subbed to Dan's channel. Cheers!!!
@lifetimedreamvideos9853 жыл бұрын
I have 800 hours in Beech 18s. That is a really short coupled light twin airplane with a max gross weight of 12,500 pounds, as I recall (37 years ago for me). The rudder dance necessary to keep it from ground looping, especially with a crosswind landing, exactly matches Juan's description of using a boxing rhythm. For me, it was kind of a twitchy experience, because you were never quite sure what it would do next. You needed really fast reflexes. It wasn't hard, once you figured it out. The trick was to NEVER let it get much out of alignment with the runway, once on the ground. If you let it go too far, it was an automatic ground loop. I never ground looped one, but I was in the cockpit for a couple of scary close calls with another pilot flying. In the Beech 18, the gear were very wide for the length of the airplane. 16 feet apart. Another pilot did loop one, going off the runway. He reported that he wound up sideways, skidding to a stop in the sand, off the runway. The wide gear preventing the wing from contacting the ground. Sand was thrown up in the air, showering the airplane. The DC-3 is much bigger and longer, and as I understand it, far less prone to ground looping. Still, I'm sure with that airplane, too, if it goes too far one way or the other, you'll loop it (on the ground).
@jonchowe3 жыл бұрын
"We need to police ourselves better." "Yeah, I type rated the guy 2 months earlier." Hopefully lesson learned.
@hackerf15e3 жыл бұрын
The lesson being that a checkride isn't representative of airmanship or ability in a wide variety of situations, weights, conditions, etc. Airmanship and judgment require experience that no training program in and of itself can provide.
@souocara38able3 жыл бұрын
Dan didn't write the requirements to get the type rating. He just followed the requirements...
@souocara38able3 жыл бұрын
@@hackerf15e A training program isn't able to give students experience in every possible situation. However it should be required to give students experience in situations that are known to occur, situations like flying the plane with its normal load and flying it from the right seat. Sounds like the type rating in this case is woefully inadequate. To my way of thinking it seems like this pilot was only qualified to conduct ferry flights of a pretty empty airplane...
@LJDRVR3 жыл бұрын
There's a large difference between performing to minimum standards on the checkride, and being able to safely perform under a variety of much more challenging conditions of real world operations. Given the experience level of the mishap FO, and his difficulties with directional control during his first two rides with the unit, what I see is the PIC having made an error to disregard well the established practice of having the freshly minted crewmember perform as pilot flying for the first leg or two. Give him an opportunity to see what a heavy takeoff actually looks like. Overestimating both your proficiency as a check pilot, while underestimating the speed at which the other guy can screw things up, has destroyed a lot of airplanes. There's a time and a place for generosity. The first flight outside of training and checking, in a previously unseen environment (Heavy) isn't the place.
@donmoore77853 жыл бұрын
That is a very cheap and undeserved shot. Mr. Gryder didn't make up the list of requirements!
@Thetrainshow3 жыл бұрын
Juan, over on Twit.tv they were talking about the KZbin de-monetization issue and I saw at least 3 ads in less than 4 minutes at the end [I watched the ending separately this morning, the last 5 inutes] . I always look forward to your videos, thank you.
@iananderson18483 жыл бұрын
Very interesting from a highly trained pilot . Well done . From a fan in Qld Australia
@jonthecomposer3 жыл бұрын
I'm digging Ticket to Ride in A at the end. Slappa da bass, Mr. Browne!
@jonthecomposer3 жыл бұрын
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder Haha! That's awesome. To be honest, it did seem like he was a little inexperienced. I'm a bass player by trade, so it was easier to see. However, any time I see someone picking it up and actually making music with it, it makes me smile. Unexpected, but cool!
@lizj57403 жыл бұрын
Or maybe not, Dan Gryder. Here's one of Juan's videos from 8 years ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqubZ5-tj7OGY7M.
@kevinstephenson38803 жыл бұрын
Glad you guys are pilots; If you had to make a living singing........... You'd starve! Great information as always. Thank you!
@yoyoglock43 жыл бұрын
Glad everyone made it out alive! Great video Juan. Really liked the Ticket to ride at the end. Good times sitting around with a buddy picking out some tunes. Time to get my old Gibson out and do some picking myself. 😊
@rayfletcher36833 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jaun. I’ve watched DC3 land and takeoffs and never could understand why they held the tail off like that. Just slapped my forehead ! So obvious now. Thanks.
@cmans79tr73 жыл бұрын
Ray - Agreed. I'm not a pilot, but I've watched probably hundreds of aviation-oriented vids, and i forget where i first heard that the tail has to come up on a tail-dragger before takeoff, due to the angle of attack on the wings, but this is the FIRST time i heard it actually mentioned that "tail-up" is also to get the vertical stabilizer and the rudder into the airflow for directional control.
@timjones75473 жыл бұрын
Took off in ground effect and immediately stalled! I think of those WWII Gooney-Birds towing gliders. That took some flying skill! Glad everyone survived this accident!
@DaleBoyce20123 жыл бұрын
It sounds like you're saying, "If you can't afford training, you really can't afford to fly."
@aquaticllamas283 жыл бұрын
Kinda yeah, it’s sad. There are things you can do though.
@darioinfini3 жыл бұрын
@@aquaticllamas28 Was thinking same. Same as if you can afford a yacht or a super car but can't afford the mechanic and maintenance, you can't afford the car. Or the house or the plane or being a pilot or the trophy wife. Basically the cost of anything is generally more than the initially perceived cost. If you only have a million dollars and the car of your dreams costs a million dollars, don't buy the car.
@badguy14813 жыл бұрын
Absolutely! I don't think ANYONE who doesn't get the training and the reinforcement from continuous flight experience...can be allowed or can afford to fly.
@easternwoods43783 жыл бұрын
The same can be said for so many government capital projects. It's easy to get the money to build something and have the politicians with the big smile for the ribbon cutting, but try to get a nickle to maintain it. I'm a mechanical engineer on the shop floor. Every project has to consider the "life cycle " cost before it's approved. That's the up front capital. That's the labour to run it. The maintenance. And the utilities and other parts
@oldsuitman77623 жыл бұрын
Yup, I realized very soon that I have to fly often to maintain my skills. There's no mistake forgiving in an aircraft.
@jaygallamore5622 жыл бұрын
Just saw this; good review and analysis. Breaking just one link in the accident chain can prevent an accident like this one. Several observations; pilots must know and understand the aerodynamic characteristics and manners of the aircraft they are flying. This includes both under normal operating conditions and during asymmetric thrust situations in multi-engine aircraft. They also must know and be proficient in how to fly the aircraft in all these conditions. Lastly, it is the responsibility of the Captain or Pilot-in-Command to conduct proper crew resource management including crew proficiency. Like so many others, this accident was preventable and responsibility for it appears to fall squarely on the Captain. Glad everyone survived.
@grouperpig13 жыл бұрын
Love the show! Your explanations of the accidents, evidence and previous history is a complete package. I am not a pilot but the learning experience in your channel should be a conscious stop for every pilot. Fantastic! Specially the music performance at the end!
@oldmandrake3 жыл бұрын
Juan! Dan has my very same guitar! Yamaha F-335. Thank You both so much. Shiny side up. Greetings from 36S.
@RustyorBroken3 жыл бұрын
It seems that the guy was signed off on before he was ready as suggested by the check ride comments. I don't hear anyone taking responsibility for that. To me, that's more concerning than the crash itself.
@sarahalbers55553 жыл бұрын
You make a great point. Let's not forget safety first, not training revenue.. This guy had no business in the left seat. Thank God everyone survived, beautiful plane destroyed.
@donmoore77853 жыл бұрын
What I heard was that the weight and weight distribution of the accident flight was far different that any configuration that the PF had experienced in training.
@raybankes76683 жыл бұрын
When the FO said he had not flown at gross weight, the PIC should not have asked him to to the take off at all. and most training does not cover gross wt and/or aft CG actual experience in training regardless of the FARs or Check ride.
@MrRem76003 жыл бұрын
@@raybankes7668 Then there is something lacking here by the checker or required "standards" for being checked on the type. Being type rated shouldn't just mean a bare level of proficiency in some phases of operation, it should mean demonstrating proficiency in all aspects of operating the aircraft. Signing this guy off without even demonstrating competency to take off within normal operating limits of the aircraft lead to a major accident and hull loss. I'm amazed the bloke at the end of the video just casually dismisses any involvement in this outcome, citing that the FAA "doesn't require it". Speaks volumes.
@jessicav20313 жыл бұрын
@@MrRem7600 The instructor's attitude also shocked me. I would have expected him to say something to indicate that he recognized the training he gave was incomplete and he is working to do better in the future. Instead, he just passed the buck. Surely an instructor has a responsibility to ensure that they really believe the student is safe to fly the aircraft, rather than just ticking a bunch of boxes for required items. It doesn't sound like he learned anything from his mistake.
@farayidarlingtonchaparadza203 жыл бұрын
Flying back in the day recquired both mental and physical fitness. That take off and landing sequence, amazing. A have newfound respect for the DC-3 and taildraggers in general.
@patrickcoakley13283 жыл бұрын
Juan, have you done a video on Air France 447? Would love to get your perspective on that incident. I really enjoy your work!
@greggb30793 жыл бұрын
Alright! Awesome video! Mr. Browne your through explanations of these incidents are so in depth , that I get the feeling of what those pilots and passengers must have been experiencing... and just what kind of skill is needed to fly one of these great old planes. Thank you very much. Loved the duo singing at the end...
@dmeemd77873 жыл бұрын
This is one of the BEST channels on KZbin, hands down
@RyeOnHam3 жыл бұрын
Great explanation of wingtip stall characteristics and wing washout design. I have seen this before, but never really got what it was all about. Very good information. Just read a book on the XB-70 which included intentional washout in the design.
@maxsido21493 жыл бұрын
Hey dude I like your Videos could you please try to explain the Switzerland Ju52 Disaster
@ScottRothsroth06163 жыл бұрын
I am asking to rule out any doubt, the accident from August, 2018?