Basics of 1870's Pugilism in 13 minutes - Showcasing HEMA

[@captainbeaver_man903]

It never ceases to amaze me that all practical martial arts all have the same principals and philosophy, they just apply them in different ways. Different tools for different jobs. Great vid

[@Vlad_Tepes_III]

That's true. Human biomechanics do not change because human anatomy does not change. All martial arts developed in pursuit of a particular outcome will retain similarities throughout all cultures, regardless of the extent of interactions between them.

[@tithonusandfriends8519]

nah a lot of them are very different, saying they are all the same is sad and reductionist

[@captainbeaver_man903]

@@tithonusandfriends8519 I think you missed the point. I'm not saying they are all the same but the principals behind how to properly do a technique all share the same philosphy. For example the way he talks about stepping to get his body into the punch is the same biomechanical idea behind a boxers hook or a Karateka straight punch. The application is different but the idea is the same; use your whole body for maximim efficacy. Of course there are numerous differences in all arts, but the overarching similarities on how to make techniques affective is very noticeable.

[@Ios13056]

@@tithonusandfriends8519 You can find karate blocks in wrestling, same movement just applied differently. Human body can only move so many ways

[@jugo1944]

The cross in this demonstration is terrible, tho. You need to sit on your crosses for power. The way he leans forward while throwing the cross is one of the first things you learn not to do in boxing. Footwork and keeping your balance is essential both defensively and for maintaining your punching power

[@YllwNinja82]

Jack Dempsey's Championship Fighting is a good book

[@woden__]

I grew up 20 minutes away from where Jack Dempsey grew up, Manasa Colorado. Thats why they called him The Manasa Mauler. They have a statue of him in the city park

[@joecoonan3931]

True that brother. It was first recommend to me in Marc "Animal" MacYoung's series of books many years back. That book is timeless, and especially useful is his advice regarding the drop step and the generation of power, (as well as for speed in one's defencive footwork, also.) Absolutely brilliant. What a legend. Max respect "The Manasa Mauler" Jack Dempsey. RIP Champ.

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJzPiIWLn9KbfNU (Amazing MMA Coach) #RamseyDewey has read it on his channel

[@SilverSquirrel]

Kickers are why God grew shillelaghs all over Ireland. Not too many kickers there now,

[@tomaspabon2484]

I mean, this makes sense in the medical and martial context of the time. Good focus on not fucking your hands up and expectations of the opponent doing the same. The recommendation of just blasting the rough and tumble fighters is realistic and hilarious.

[@fareastpride94]

looks very different from modern mma. It actually looks very similar to traditional kung fus (not including the fancy wushu stuff).

[@modkfmartialarts8663]

I was thinking the exact thing especially compared to zan shou quan and fanzi quan

[@joshkooga7204]

Wing chun??

[@bensteer3778]

Very similar to xing yi

[@etienne2069]

A lot like wing-chun

[@erikseavey9445]

The gong in gong fu translates to effort. It's about the work you put into yourself and put out. From training to fighting to simply how you carry yourself.

[@edi9892]

There are a few MMA guys that gave their perspective on traditional pugilism. Some things they still consider smart, other things not so much... The big gloves change a lot, which is why some things would make still sense today, but not so much in the ring.

[@adam-k]

Small gloves and binding your fist change a lot. Lots of MMA stuff would fly out of the window if small joint manipulation were a thing.

[@exploatores]

If I remember right from my military training. you can beat someone who trys to kick you by walking right in to him if you are fast enough.

[@grayblackhelm6468]

Exploatores It's an opening that can be exploited- but the timing has to be very exact. Kicks are not forgiving.

[@MaverickCulp]

That's what I've tried to start doing in my fights, I'm blind in one eye so my depth perception is a bit off. So kicks are kind of a no go for me, but I have a lot of experience in wrestling. If you can take a guy down as he's recovering from throwing a kick, you're almost guaranteed to land some good blows on the ground.

[@exploatores]

do the same but as he is going for the kick. it´s a lot less power if he hit you with the thigh, then the foot. If your depth precepition is a bit of the goal is to not to to short.

[@shanebyrne8668]

Kicks are only really powerful when in the last third'ish of the motion. Interrupt the leg before it can properly extend, it won't be able to generate power. Same goes for a punch. It's kinda like the theory of how to deal with a bat. You want to get in and interrupt it before it can extend and deliver its force, instead of move back and get hit with the end which is exactly what you want from a leverage weapon

[@SuperNache]

Exploatores If i remember from MY military training, it’s METT-T dependent.

[@Mr-Tibbster]

For skeptics, a great source for this art is Oz who has his own school on this. He adresses many of the "supposed issues", myths and misconceptions of the art, and also has a few instructionals. kzbin.info

[@AlCloutier]

Interesting content. I'm a big believer in proper structure and conditioning. Keep up the good work!

[@rhysnichols8608]

Never underestimate the power of a fancy man with a moustache and a comb over in a white vest. Ones who have a pipe and a glass of whisky at ring side with a hairy chest are the deadliest

[@omari2306]

Since slipping came to knowldge of many this way of pugilism was abolished, litlle parries have been left such as the elbow blocks. Because they saw that actually with slipping moves you manage your weight better and create more leverage to execute the next punch with all your body weight behind it, kind off peekaboo stuff and jack dempsey.

[@seamusesparza1943]

They had slipping under London Prize Ring rules, see Billy Edwards' book.

[@iam-mp1pe]

Blood & Iron is frucking great. I love what there doing over there & i hope the school as well as HEMA blows up in a big way to the point that more know of it than not. But ya im a big supporter, tho dude in this vid wit the long hair looks like he could use some time to work on hand to hand. I know its hard to make enough time for hand to hand on top of time on sword work, but iv seen how big this issue is 1st hand to make a long story short. Always make time & do not shoot urself in the foot over this, but ya its just 1 of those things i always look for in sword play over how important it is to still b deadly without a sword in a sword fight. & its crazy how many ppl dont keep up there hand to hand skills after picking up the sword

[@VictorDSMan]

Some of the comments said that this form of fighting is ineffective in today's world or tournament style of fighting. But the strong point about this form was that it was meant to protect the fist and arms of the fighter as there were no gloves used during fighting in the old days and even today's street fights.

[@HappyCupsInc]

A self-defense system for gentlemen against gentlemen. I was very confused at how a man experienced in combat thought this was good fighting, but when he said it was for "gentlemen" and not to destroy your opponent as quickly and efficiently as possible it all made sense. Seems like a fairly fun system to use against other people using the same system - but I would absolutely not trust my life to it.

[@Shoegazebasedgenre0.]

it's actually have an effective parry and blocking

[@breaden4381]

Read the source material before commenting.

[@MrAlepedroza]

@@clarkb.582 WTF? This was used on rings where people could move in any way they wanted. Elbow strikes and rabbit punches were also legal back then.

[@beepist5000]

@@Shoegazebasedgenre0. Blocking is bad. Checking is good.

[@MrAlepedroza]

@@clarkb.582 The size of the ring was not standardized, but normally it was way bigger. You didn't need very refined footwork to avoid being cornered or backed against the ropes. Combine that with no round limit and you would have gassed out if trying to fight a la Ali or Sugar Ray.

[@0713mas]

Thank GOD it evolved! Structurally it sort of reminds me of a combination fencing and slap boxing, functionally it looks like kyokushin karate (full contact) blocking and Wing Chun Kung Fu punching

[@manufacturedfracture]

Literally this is exactly like wing chun with European interpretation.

[@lanesmith1465]

The vertical punch was how people punched for thousands of years (look at ancient Greek and Egyptian paintings). Horizontal fist became popular comparatively recently because of the boxing glove.

[@0713mas]

@@lanesmith1465Great point! I've noticed that in historic paintings and statues. Vertical fist works well for sneaking punches in and quick jabs, so it would make sense that soldiers would be taught that.

[@joshuahogan3475]

@@0713mas the vertical punch with proper body mechanics is also capable of generating power at extremely close range vs body shifting techniques taught in modern boxing. Nothing wrong with body shifting of course, just remember it works at range not close up. That's why modern MMA that focus heavily on boxing for strikes always switches to Muay Thai clenches and elbows when the distance closes.

[@ajb7332]

I would be interested to see any of these techniques performed on someone who is resisting. I would very much like to see them performed in an actual pressure tested situation, as in a hard sparring session.

[@nathanbruce1992]

Yeah. A few things seem a bit odd to me. Like how they discuss taking steps to not injure your hand but if someone tries to take you down you punch into their head super hard Or how that guard takes longer to block a left hook 6han a normal boxing stance (cuz you gotta lift your arm up) It's interesting stuff and I'm not calling it out. I definitely would like to see how it plays out

[@RandAlthor939]

Interesting do you think they were just made up ? Pugilism or boxing without gloves , including , grappling , throws , head butts , weapons . Faught on hard floors with ropes or fences to designate the ring . With matches that last many many hours . And you wonder if these moves work tested under pressure . The powerful hooks and upper cuts of modern boxing are far more powerful definitely. But the gloves have made it possible. The pugilist ( old English) would be looking at causing as much damage to you whilst . Protecting his knuckles. It changes the shape of fighting much more straight strikes than round . But yes I agree we should see it used as it was . Rather than an intellectual conversation.

[@brabra2725]

@@RandAlthor939 this is just Wing Chun repackaged as 1870 pugilism. They know nothing about how to throw a punch or boxing, you can see it from a mile away. It's crystal clear they have never spar once in their whole life

[@Vlad_Tepes_III]

@@brabra2725 This isn't even remotely similar to Wing Chun, the fists are held much more closely to the head and the body, which, in turn, generates far greater power than Wing Chun, and offer far better head protection. And the punches can be seen coming a mile away not because they're telegraphed, but because the demonstrators are deliberately executing the motions that slowly so as to allow the viewers to understand the details of the movements better. This isn't sparring or bag or mitt work where they'd want to go as fast as they could.

[@Vlad_Tepes_III]

@@nathanbruce1992 The part of the head that particular punch is meant to hit, that is, the face, or, more precisely, the part of the face situated below the eyebrows, above the mouth and between the cheekbones, is relatively softer compared to the rest of the head, and would, therefore, not injure the knuckles when punched hard like any other part of the head would.

[@scottmarlow6018]

Interesting! I really enjoy the historical aspect of this. I can see the basics in this style but I can see why things have evolved over time. That low left can leave you open to fight ending hooks to the head.

[@steveanton763]

It looks weird to me. My Dad was taught a similar style in the Australian army.

[@ArtoPekkanen]

Not having boxing gloves to protect your hands greatly changes the structures and mode of fighting, it seems to me.

[@rahbee6266]

This is weirdly similar to wing Chun. Good stuff

[@rahbee6266]

@Targaryen Dynasty k?

[@edtv2365]

true! by the looks of it, i already know Bartitsu. I practice WC.

[@blackpowderkun]

Same tools similar conclusions

[@shaness112233]

What about palm strikes? Not kung-fu trick shit, more like Irish boxing, where you throw the punch like normal but just strike with the base of the palm instead. They completely bypass knuckle damage and remove a lot of the compression that happens in the hand during a punch that absorbs force, as well as lower the area of impact and strike with a single strong bone instead of a lot of small weak ones. I've personally seen a noticeable increase in my striking power since I've started using them. Also, that quote at 10:44 is gloriously gentlemanlike. "You should always be superior to the rowdy", words to live by!

[@MrGimmick77]

The palm is soft, and has more give than the knuckles. it's aren't optimal for imparting force, though it feel like it is because you can deliver a more forceful push. It has it's place but if you can safely strike with a closed fist, you'll be able to do far more damage.

[@justinstewart705]

I perfer mendoza his stance and system were decades beyond his time and he was a small guy who rarely was ever beatin

[@Doomsjay1923]

mendoza who?

[@kevionrogers2605]

@@Doomsjay1923 Daniel Mendoza

[@JackHanma]

It's interesting to note that BK fighting looks closer to okinawan karate that it looks to pro western boxing itself. The add of padded gloves and wrap changes everything

[@klavakkhazga3996]

Monstery, not monastery, if someone wants to look for it :)

[@HEMASimian]

You know how these Americans are, always mispronouncing things ;)

[@fenriraldrek1022]

so how the hell do you pronounce his damn name?

[@storiesuntold4487]

Monstery @@fenriraldrek1022

[@arbogast4950]

This looks kinda like Xing Yi (Hsing I Chuan)

[@SifuKenGrange]

Funny that they should mention Sherlock and some comments talk about Wing Chun. RDJ used Wing Chun to help choreograph his fights in those shows.

[@HipposHateWater]

They were supposed to reference Bartitsu, which was a mixed martial art in vogue at the time. I'm assuming they opted for Wing Chun simply because it's so ridiculously similar, yet there's far more resources available for choreographers on a tight schedule to research.

[@Druid_Ignacy]

And this is why traditional eastern martial arts do ,,stop in motion" things in grappling techniques. Because good fighter would hit maintaining the line, to have a power and to make the hit for himself. And this is the moment were grappling techniques come in. Today they are no ,,bad", ,,fake" or ,,unrealistic" but just outdated, as many people train (or think so) kickboxing and they throw out completely different punches.

[@tx.tactical3165]

Great video guys, I'm getting the book thnx...

[@gwennblei]

I find it very strange, in every videos I saw about pugilism, they barely rotate their hips, while this is a crucial part of the power of strikes, I wonder about the practical reason behind it.

[@MaverickCulp]

Gwenn Blei It's a gentleman's fighting style, they ain't trying to kill each other.

[@gwennblei]

Maybe, they're still trying to knock each other out though, I don't think they purposefully gave their punches less power, if it hasn't any other benefit than saving your opponent some pain. Also while engaging the hip definitely makes your punches more effective, I don't think it increases death chances after punches that much, though I'll admit I don't have any scientific evidence for that. Anyway maybe you're right some gentlemanly code asked that they had to pull their punches ? That may be an element of response, even if I'm a bit doubtful, thanks for your reply :)

[@grailknight6794]

When you have no gloves you are worried not to break your hand! The way you see boxing with hip and all that power thrown is only because you have pillows on your hands! When you have bareknuckles you want to preserve them not just go blindly full force.

[@nicholas1053]

Bare knuckle boxing, as a sport may be like that. I don't know. However, as a boxer who got in a fair number of fights when I was younger I can say that during those street fights I sat on my punches and gave everything. I would rather have a bone in my hand cracked than to have my skull cracked open. Street fights can get bad real quick whether anyone intended it or not. In high school there were two guys who had been friends there entire lives. One was a big tall corn feed type boy the other a regular guy. Corn feed one was on the wrestling team. I didn't know the other well. One day they got in a fight with each other outside at school . . . on the damn concrete. The big one suplexed him. A few seconds later the big guy is on his knees balling as his best friend is lying unconscious on the ground with a pool of blood beginning to grow from his head. Avoid a fight if possible but if you have no real choice assume the worst possible outcome should you lose. When considering a fight I put my feelings aside (which most likely are deeply desiring to fight) and I remember what I saw sophomore year with those two friends as well as the words of Gaivs Ivlivs Caesar: War gives the right to the conquerors to impose any condition they please upon the vanquished. Once defeated there is nothing you can do to defend yourself. They could kill you or worse and there would be nothing you could do to stop them. Would you sacrifice one broken knuckle to save your life? I would.

[@grailknight6794]

Nicolavs Iohannes Egnativs you dont punch in a street fight! You use your palms! Second you CANT crack open a skull with fists. Period. Now if we are talking they are using weapons than same you dont wanna punch against someone whos got more damage per hit with a weapon then a fist. Bareknuckle fighting is a sport! However if you choose to use your fists in a fight you rather be very accurate with it. A busted knuckle means gameover.

[@Helltown66]

If you're going to invent a fighting system for self-defense it has to address all the ranges in order for it to be the most effective. If your answer to kicks is to just run away then that should be the same for punches too.

[@tomaspabon2484]

I mean its not running away, the Colonel suggests jumping back to avoid high kicks and then closing back in. Try to keep it close and not allow the savatier the space for those nasty fouette kicks.

[@yugen]

"The walking beams of a locomotive" - that's almost exactly like Bruce Lee's "Straight Blast" technique, of which Straight Blast Gym named themselves after.

[@anthonyroman5034]

The on guard stance resembles that of Bart Doran's.

[@Mythicalmage]

I'm really curious how this compares to savate. I'd love to hear from someone actually proficient in Savate. :P

[@adenyang4398]

I recommend you look up Professor Paul Buitron.

[@Gabdube]

AFAIK, a hypothetical "pure" savate would more often get safety from range, hence why savate still used _some_ kicks when everyone else was doing variants of boxing and/or grappling. Savate gets proportionally better if you're taller or have a reach advantage on your opponent; which is the opposite to the form of pugillism seen here, or of Wing Chun too for that matter; which embrace short range to negate differences in reach. In savate, you don't want to control your opponent so much as you want to dictate range. Range has a defensive advantage in letting you see incoming attacks from a bit further, which slightly helps with response times. In this form of pugillism, you want to be significantly closer to your opponent, much like in Wing Chun. So you get safety from either 1) actively blocking your opponent's lines of attack, or 2) actively controlling their limbs (binds, catches, etc), or 3) disengaging. Historically though, savate also had a whole lot of grappling, elbow strikes, knee strikes, palm strikes; close-range stuff that does works in a street fight. So, not so much long-range as people might think it was.

[@CPTkeyes317]

Spoke to john today, he said in the book they actually use savate in many places. I think the books are at the club!

[@etienne2069]

Dude, this is so similar to traditional wing-chun kung-fu.

[@daswordofgork9823]

I want to see this against wing chun. It would be one of the coolest sparring matches ever.

[@NikovK]

"Rough and tumble" held as fair game to castrate the opponent through grappling.

[@godzilladude1231]

I see a lot of people are idiots saying that this shit isnt going to work in a real modern fight. People forget that This is the basic things where modern boxing came from. But unlike boxing, classical pugilism has purr kicking and grappling. So yeah they are not only effectve but can also be more dangerous than modern striking martial arts. Daniel Mendoza used it to fight against three consecutive street brawls. Jack johnson once used it to beat the crap out of 4 street guys at once before going to his match. Classical pugilism works because these were more practical oriental martial arts unlike oriental ones like kung fu and karate which are for flash.

[@juliantan1321]

John Constantine well modern firearms are evolved forms of ancient Chinese fireworks, so the 'origin' argument does not make sense unless you want to argue that a firework could beat a pistol. So a lot of pugilism works, a lot of it is ineffective.

[@justinians9367]

Mendiza dident fight that way he had more of a traditional stance hands up faceing front as for kung fu thay lost alot of practical effectiveness when a former emperor outlawed martial arts but sanda is around and its on par with muythai as for karate kyokushin is still trained in alot of mma gyms not to mention by its self its brutal

[@serenacula3256]

My issue is not that pugilism is bad, but that this is a poorly understood example of it. Fighting, whether kung fu or classical boxing, all works on the same principles of combat, which this fails to embody. Classical pugilism would probably look a lot like some styles kung fu, or like modern MMA and bareknuckle boxing. Body structure, while yes very important, is not employed in the way they are describing here. He greatly over-extends, and is hardly utilising the hips at all. He also sticks his chin up in the air, which is asking to get knocked out. You can't read a book and understand the nuances of a fighting style, if you don't first understand the basics of how fighting works.

[@OnyxXThePunch]

Bare knuckle boxer who learned almost everything I know threw traditional means and I can tell you real karate is dangerous af and actually has similarities to pugilism modern competition karate trash tho

[@MrAlepedroza]

@@serenacula3256 Have you actually read the old boxing manuals? Cuz he is doing exactly what they describe. A high chin is not that much of a problem when your guard is so long. That kind of "overcomitting" worked a lot better when your arms were extended that way.

[@Gieszkanne]

In old german boxing was called Fechten same as fencing so they didnt distinguish or have another word for bare hand.

[@RikthDcruze]

Try to use this against a boxer and he will end you.

[@blackpowderkun]

Gloved or bare knuckle rules.

[@aubreygmcghee]

The parry and punch looks a lot like Krav Maga technique of block and punch at the same time surging forward.

[@RobbyGAMEZ]

I regret googling American rough-and-tumble fighting. truly horrid shit

[@raksh9]

I had to Google it after reading your comment. Yeah, I regret it too.

[@raksh9]

@Leonard Ticsay I'd advise against it, if you have any kind of imagination. Not nice at all. The descriptions alone are like WTF am I reading, they did this??

[@AJxxxxxxxx]

Ok now I’m curious

[@bikinibandit2398]

Hi guys, I'm amazed by this display of punching power & speed. I want you to fly to Vegas and run a seminar for Floyd and Mike. Yours sincerely, D. King

[@TheDudeWithDaCowbell]

Is this DeMarcus king from vhhs?

[@yourdedcat-qr7ln]

Jack dempsey championship fighting

[@adamding3873]

Clean boxing is acceptable. If someone kicks or uses some dirty trick like eye gouging, finger twisting, etc., then it is escalated and you can use dagger, sword or even pistol.

[@joecoonan3931]

Remnants of the straight blast are seen in some of this, though with longer motion, though more power potentially generated therein.

[@rebekah-chriss-k4872]

Great stuff really love hand to hand hema

[@friendlyjester8482]

That's why I love MMA, it includes everything that works for sport and self-defense :).

[@hailhydreigon2700]

Not everything. There's more to self defense than just learning to fight.

[@ttchme9816]

@@hailhydreigon2700 you clearly don't know how to fight. What's more to self defense then? Taking hits? Doing fancy kung fu or yelling anime shitty lines? Tell me then.

[@hailhydreigon2700]

@@ttchme9816 Awareness. Knowing how to defuse a tense situation. Travelling using the buddy system for protection. Knowing the fastest and safest way out of a building. Avoiding and preventing a fight is 90% of Self Defense. And you'll hear this in any kind of self defense course you take. You DO have to prepare to defend yourself physically, but most of it starts before any kind of fighting is going on. If you can defend yourself without fighting, you'll be better off.

[@hailhydreigon2700]

@@ttchme9816 What I'm saying is that is that if 3 guys jump you and one of them has a 2x4, you need more than just fighting skills. This happened with 2 pro MMA fighters. Look it up. 6 men jumped them, and one had a 2x4. They decided to fight instead of run, and they got messed up. One of them ended up in a coma.

[@ttchme9816]

@@hailhydreigon2700 you don't know what you are saying son, IF someone jumped you then that means you are by no means unprepared. No one or should I say no gang would just one day decide they'll jump you. You freaking dumbass, making impossible odds to back yourself up won't make you look smarter, IF these 6 guys are figting you then be it you train or not you are basically dead. What these I'm saying is that self defense wouldn't get you into these situation. Self defense is not protecting yourself from getting jumped its fighting 2 or 3 guys you dumb ass, I don't even know how to laugh at you at this point what you have said is a complete different subject

[@CounterOptics]

You can throw elbows as well in pugilism.

[@CounterOptics]

To add to it you can also throw backhands as well.

[@MbisonBalrog]

I think you guys just describe WC chain punching.

[@saladinyamamoto8336]

what is the difference between pugilism from bare knuckles boxing?

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

Pugilism is just an old word for boxing. It is bare knuckle boxing

[@TonyDragonsNava]

John Patterson is the best awesome video

[@mda1218]

19 th century fighters turned opponents face into squashed tomato: planted stance , knucks full force ... ignored midsection & just head hunted ... till loser’s eyes , nose & mouth re-arranged as he softened up

[@Beave98]

This style of fighting feels a lot like wing chun to me, like the emphasis on the structure, the botched kinda 70/30 stance, attacking and defending on the same line or down line and the idea that your goal is to disrupt your opponents body structure and balance. Even the idea of not being tense so you can move your arms reactive to attacks more fluidly. All really wing chun stuff.

[@shirleymental4189]

Pretty good info here, but I've got to check the comments because that's where all the real experts live.

[@reachvictoria3386]

😂

[@vytautasmikuciauskas222]

Looks like chain punch from wing chun

[@petermurphy4964]

great stuff lads

[@Celokrat]

On 8:54 that's really bad attempt of guillotine choke. Had he hold him with a proper guillotine, the other guy wouldn't be able to slip-off that easily from that position.

[@daniel-zt6im]

True , this is why i think that learning martial arts ( or at least practice some of the techniques ) that deal with chokes and locks like bjj or wrestling is important . now that said the technique shown in the video could work in real life against some people because like the guy in the video some people don't know how to choke . i also think that this is why the guy who made this martial art didn't have enough knowledge about chokes and how to defend from them because back in the time not many knew how to choke and how to defend against it , moral of the story is that if you want to defend from something you first need to know how to do it in the first place , if you want to defend against a choke you should learn how to choke proparly and the best way to know if you are choking proparly is to test it using resistance . i think that if this martial art had evolved more in the past then we would end up with a martial art that looks like mma or something of that sort .

[@MbisonBalrog]

If you blind or barely can see, how will you spar, or fence?

[@travisellison7098]

Could someone post a link to the guest teachers page? Does he have a youtube channel or facebook page or even a website?

[@AKlover]

Fist punching anywhere above the nose is a BAD idea. Use the palm, use the hammer fist, forearm, or best of all the elbow.......assuming you do not have a weapon in your hand.

[@TheNEOverse]

Does that include the eye? Because I took a sharp jab to the eye and it watered up badly. I'd say do not punch anywhere above the eyes instead.

[@nobsherc]

the problem of aiming at the eyes is that the bone above is really hard and you can easily break your hand on it, but if you aim at the mouth and nose, you'll do a lot of damage and if you hit the jawbone the opponent may easily be out of commission. so as AKlover said if you're aiming at the proper skull, like eyebrows and forehead, the palm and hammerfist is better, and elbow, if you can, is a beast overall. so if you get close enough use the elbow, anywhere. Even with the lightest hits elbowing will hurt the opponent.

[@MrGimmick77]

I wouldn't even bother hitting the cranium with a palm or hammer fist. It's just to hard of a target to reliably damage, and the force is absorbed straight down the spine, almost nullifying the concussive factor. If the cranium is the only part of the head that's presented, than find alternative targets till the chin is exposed again.

[@AKlover]

No shortage of people have been knocked out by a shot to the "temple" or simply by getting there head whipped back suddenly. Sometimes less than ideal things can work and you take the shot you have.

[@MrGimmick77]

I thought you were talking about a blow to the forehead and top of the head. I'm assuming the scenario is one where the opponent has a tight guard on either side of the head, and their chin is down. If the temple is exposed, than I agree, exploit it. You'll have trouble getting the whiplash effect though, unless you can hit the chin, because of it's proximity to the spine. It's the farthest projection on the skull, which makes it a good lever.

[@sharkinahat]

Best self defense tip ever - 'Use a pistol'

[@aurourus6894]

Might as well just nuke them.

[@nicholas1053]

Number 1 defense tip: be aware of your surroundings. You can carry an M4 assault rifle around with you everywhere you go, everyday of your life, but if you don't know I'm an enemy and you allow me to walk up next to or behind you . . . I could kill you with a rock; M4 or not. Number 2 defense tip: carry a pistol and a pocket knife . . . just in case.

[@AKlover]

Most including those who carry them don't know how to use them especially at H2H/Grappling range. That is assuming they can even draw the weapon. A handgun is not a fix-all despite what your average dumbass thinks. Try drawing a pistol after/while getting punched in the face and compound that further that most have never trained to do a complex movement while taking or mitigating incoming damage. If you live in the U.S. I encourage to go get your CCW it is an informative experience to see the ineptness and unpreparedness of even the more "dedicated" gun owners. Standard where I am in 3 6 round strings on a torso/head target at 7 yards with no real time limit and people actually missed.

[@AKlover]

Yes and no, this assumes the shooter will be static and not prepared. Takes more pressure than you think to get through kevlar and ice pick style blades do not do as much damage as you think especially after the kevlar limits the penetration depth. You'd be better served to ignore the armor and attack elsewhere and preferably with a cutting blade. Throat, head, groin, or the opponent's weapon arm.

[@TheSpiritsLease]

AKlover you're doing God's work, son.

[@jthewelshwarlord6331]

That first kick defence shown is also partly a military sabre slip/void. Additionally I heard not much can beat a good boxer.

[@ObsidianDragon7030]

A Good Ju Jitsu Practitioner would have a hell of a chance.

[@grayblackhelm6468]

A Thai Boxer would have a huge advantage.

[@tsoliot5913]

I don't think that's true... certainly not a huge advantage.

[@MaverickCulp]

I resort to wrestling if I get out boxed or kicked, most boxers don't know what to do on the ground, but it's hard to get past a good boxers defense!

[@thundermolloy]

Jujitsu,Kang-twan Do, or Tai Chi beat a boxer easily. Jujitsu will simply mow a boxer down and break his arms in an arm bar. Kang-twon Do users will just attack their hands with their offensive blocks,close, and drop an elbow into their face or throat or dragon strike their wind pipe. Tai chi, when trained as a martial art and not just exercise, is full of deadly strikes,locks,and throws.

[@Will-bo7kg]

Just got a copy of his book.

[@mre6201]

Funny somehow looks to me more like a karate punch more than a boxing punch, hand pillow did change fighting

[@sambsialia]

Where is training near Knoxville Tn?

[@GhERM2SOIED72]

I couldn't do this... I'd accidentally defend myself :( .

[@fernandorodriguezromero2119]

Sounds a lot like Wing Chun...

[@badlarry2346]

You throw punches about how I imagine you’d throw a baseball 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@thethiccwarrior6675]

I'm curious as to how effective this would be in boxing I'm assuming ideally you'd have to be comfortable in both stances seeing that you move forward with both legs

[@lanesmith1465]

In modern sport boxing? It wouldn't to well. But likewise modern sport boxing wouldn't do well in their game.

[@bruhmiyamoto9685]

@@lanesmith1465 Nah, modern boxing would absolutely annihalate them. The stuff theyre demonstrating is absolute crap. Do you really think a boxer is gonna be helpless without his gloves? Fighting evolves ppl find better ways tp use their bodies. This little niche of ppl invalidating real fighters because of some oz of padding dont know shit about fighting.

[@jassimarsingh6505]

@@bruhmiyamoto9685sounds like you lived back then

[@mickylove76]

This is like basic Wing Chun boxing.

[@Stoned.Trooper]

reminds me a classic karate techniques

[@zyriab5797]

5:20 -> Understanding that the "always" was too much in the previous sentence ? I find that having your weight on the backfoot makes it harder to jump back... There's interesting points in this video and I thank you for taking the time to make it and share it but I'd like to highlight some dangerous practices or more generally bad forms that you are showing in this video, for it can be really dangerous for non experimented people to actually train those moves. First of, it goes with leaning; leaning is (generally) a very bad practice for it breaks your balance and center line, offers your head for kicks/knees/grapple and thus reduce the overall strength of your blows. From my personal experience in sparring with different type of opponents, I'd recommend NOT to lean, just like in fencing, it would be a better solution to slightly move the front leg forward, lower your center of gravity and move that center forward, keeping your center aligned wit the ground. Also after that, you are mixing leaning and rotating your hips. You don't need to lean forward to use your bodyweight, you "just" have to rotate your hips. Actually, every time you lean in this video, lowering your bodyweight would have been a way more viable tactic. (Like for that stopping blow, for example). Secondary, you are speaking about proper wrist alignment but break it when you "hit" the chest, I'd avoid doing that since it less likely that your opponent would just stand like that, and if your wrist is weak while your opponent is evading it, or moving forward, you could break it really easily, it could also damage your elbow on some cases. I'm not saying that one should or shouldn't hit with all knuckles, or those and those knuckles. Let's let the people experiment, everybody has a different feeling regarding that matter, I have saw. At 5:40 your are NOT in distance, your arm is fully extended and barely touching him, therefore your secondary blow (which is the "real" one if I understood correctly), as we saw, is not landing "inside" your enemy face but barely "on it". Since you are saying later that you should strike through the opponent and not snapping, you are not practicing what you are advocating. I personally use both, depending on the opponent I'm facing as well as other conditions, but even if you wanted to snap, it does not seem to me like it would be effective in this demonstration. Also about that leaning forward, when you hit the shield, since you are far away you tend to lean, therefore if your opponent dodge that, you could be in a really dangerous situation. After that first feint-blow, I'd recommend to do a "half-step" keeping the backward foot on the back but just to align your center line with the ground, rotating your hips, using the movement momentum, it'll give to your blow a much more powerful impact. Also that step forward was a really good example of what bad footwork is. I'm not saying that stepping and crossing your legs is "evil", each move and form as its time but the way your are stepping is really heavy, not straightforward (doing an exterior half-circle) and you are clearly loosing balance when landing that foot. From pugilist to pugilist I'd also recommend to snap back your punches after they've landed/pushed or missed, that's an error we commonly see from beginners or more specifically in Asian martial arts (even from so-called "masters"), letting your arms floating like that could let your opponent grab them more easily, trap your arms, do some kind of locks, etc... and since your arm is fully extended they would be more "easy" to break at the elbow. (Note the quotes on "easy", we know that even if the arm stays extended, performing a lock or something of that nature is not easy in a "real" fight). Thank you for having reading me, English is not my mother tongue, therefore I hope it was understandable. Enjoy training ! Humbly, Wallendorff Arthur

[@Jason-o5s]

Cheer~~~~the profession or hobby of boxing.😊

[@PuBearsticks]

Reminds me a lot of wing chun philosophy. Especially the structure and occupation of the center line.

[@hellbow1851]

do i have to be overweight and suck at boxing too to to train at your gym?

[@jeebusyaweirdo3733]

Personally, I would never lean into a jab like that. I step into em.

[@maximus4919]

Leaning is asking for a punch

[@jeebusyaweirdo3733]

@@maximus4919 yes it is

[@lanesmith1465]

I've read the book. It talks about stepping into the punch.

[@erikseavey9445]

You know alot of martial arts experts get their asses handed to them in mma not because they lack the knowledge so much as they spend so much time practicing technique that they seem to slack on the conditioning. Conditioning makes all the difference.

[@concussionhead5164]

I have to be honest, this seems actually applicable in the real world for average people, which I like.

[@TheGeehanlolShow]

8:13 ah yes the ye olde technique known as 'sticketh and moveth'

[@Alberto-mq3jm]

Sure

[@nicholas1053]

I may be spoiled because I was a boxer for many years, won the Ringside World Championship, 43 fights, trained by a world champion, and I later trained others after I stopped; so I am a specialist, however, the info in this video is almost as bad as this sentence. I love your videos, don't get me wrong. I understand this is a different context than boxing, but you get many of the basics wrong; things which depend on human anatomy, kinetics, etc and are essentially beyond debate. Plus, you don't get amateur boxing. They changed their scoring system from the number of *effective* punches landed (love taps did not count, despite what you may think and say) to the basic 10 point must system. Essentially, who came off worst in the round loses the round. It all comes down to clean effective punches (emphasis on effective). Also, the white circles were meant to avoid slapping and to keep inexperienced amateurs (as it only existed in amateur boxing) from using improper form.

[@tsoliot5913]

What basics are different? I'm interested in the comparison to the historical author's opinion that they are describing.

[@jaymoh4216]

Nicolavs Iohannes Egnativs If I may ask. What about human anatomy and kinetics and the non debatable stuff did they get wrong in your opinion?

[@gwennblei]

His very small hip rotations on his movements seems really off to me, using passing step while punching has really grown out of fashion nowadays, though we find that in old karate, jiu jitsu, kung fu, so I'm not surprised it's in pugilism too, it's just something we kind of gave up along the way. Also the concept of hitting at a wider area with all of your fist is a bit strange, as I was taught to punch with my index and middle finger's knuckles, which are the stronger ones and way less likely to break than the other two, and usually you want to use precisely tiny spots (especially on the face, on body you will hit with your whole fist anyway) to concentrate the force of the impact, and also cause those tiny spots have the most effect, jaw line, nose, eye brow temple... At least those were my thoughts, maybe a boxer has seen different points :)

[@jaymoh4216]

Id like to say. A professional boxer is missing a very wide bit of information when it comes to self-defense/street fighting. Which is what most of those styles are for. Perhaps there is a legitimste reason has to why it was done. I honestly couldnt tell why. His hip movement seemed odd to me too. And his movements seemed very awkward and unnatural, though maybe its just me.

[@gwennblei]

True, but when it comes to punching technique and body mechanics, it's definitely wise to consider the points of a pro boxer ;) I'm mainly from Karate myself, even though I've been curious and tried a few other MA and combat sports in my life ;) Also yeah definitely not relaxed nor natural movements.

[@AJJ129]

Except for the low hand it’s kind of a back leg muay thai stance

[@samuelwoodouse4482]

2:03 just punch with the heal of your palm

[@Seabasstiann]

I study boxing and I see some relations

[@mnbn31]

That looks similar to what Bart Doran taught in his book.

[@danielskipp1]

The "footwork" kinda sucks... strategically jumping back is not good either for self-defence [it is OK for sports and dueling matches] as gives away many advantages, not least of which enabling the opponent to get a weapon. In combat if you can't escape then close in and control the enemy, taking his balance, structure, spirit, mind, breath , vision etc.. closing him down and finishing him ASAP. Swapping punches from range is more a game than survival.

[@BloodandIronHEMA]

That's exactly the context of pugilism though, is a gentlemanly duel with fists. Definitely not a tool for modern self defense.

[@davidmiller6642]

As the editor of Monstery's book, I'd like to state that "jumping back" is only one of many possible defense techniques included in Monstery's system. In fact he devotes an entire chapter (Chapter VIII) to "evasions," which he regards as a more advanced technique, and which involve a "sidewise" rather than backwards step. Here is a quote by Monstery from that chapter: "True and scientific evasions are very different from the dodgings and duckings that go under that name at many sparring exhibitions, where the body is simply drawn away from an opponent’s blow, leaving him free to repeat it, and to escape the return. The advantages of a true evasion are double...These advantages can only be gained by making the evasions sidewise, and toward the opponent, instead of backwards, as no advantage accrues unless the evasion brings you within striking distance of the opponent without danger to yourself. All evasions should be accompanied by counters or return blows."

[@davidmiller6642]

I'd like to thank "Blood and Iron HEMA" (is that Lee?) for filming and posting this video (as well as John for doing the demo). And I'd also like to add by way of clarification, that Monstery's system is, indeed, intended for practical self-defense, and includes both unarmed and armed methods for use against a wide variety of fighting styles and weapons. In his section on boxing/grappling, Monstery writes: “I teach the following tricks, not with any idea that they are to be used in friendly encounters with the gloves, but solely for the protection of gentlemen who may, at any time, against their will, be forced into an encounter with a street ruffian.” (Chapter 9) And regarding the cane: “Boxing will get a gentleman out of a great many scrapes into which he may fall, but in some parts of the Union he will come across men who habitually carry knives or pistols and in such a case a stout walking-stick, if he knows how to use it, may save his own life, and-what I consider more important-prevent the necessity of his taking the life of another...As a queller of disturbances, I know of nothing better than a hickory or ash stick.” (Chapter 12) Just how practical or relevant Monstery's system may be for self-defense today, I'll leave to individual readers to decide. More about this can be read at: outofthiscentury.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/the-victorian-gentlemans-self-defense-toolkit/

[@manufacturedfracture]

So ... Um ...wing chun?

[@kenkrossrus568]

Бокс, Борьба и Скорость рулят!

[@smokingblues5067]

Stance and punch similar to karate

[@varencilator]

Reminds me of wing chun

[@megachewie13]

Zack Dumbledore yeah kinda, but wing chun is far more enclosed and probably faster

[@leksluthor3]

Not really. At most the principle of blocking/parrying and striking as one when they showed the parrying at 7:56. But there is so much here you just wouldn't do or do drastically differently in Wing Chun.

[@patarikisoterion9899]

zaco21 Wing Chun punch is powerful both long range and short range. Wing Chun trained properly is unlimited in its application. It doesn’t have look like wing chun to be wing chun. Bong Sau for example is not just a block or deflection it is also a strike. Wing Chun is a very clever system.

[@zekelerossignol7590]

Wing chun is believed to based on pankration, itself based on earlier styles of Greek boxing and wrestling, so that'd be why.

[@corbinholmes3752]

Not to say your wrong; it was a nameless system of collected easy to learn techniques from the Shaolin Temple, around the time China was having an communist invasion crisis. I wouldn't put it past that practitioners ran into Pankration combatants during their early Shaolin historical years and learned from them. But at the same time, they probably had techniques and developmental drills that would turn Wing Chun into an effective boxing/kickboxing style, but since it was mostly passed down through person to person during such a rough time, somewhere along the line techniques and those exact drills got lost in the process.

[@pappa7t3]

How and why has this system of fighting not been more mainstream? It's brilliant makes sense i definitely want to learn this method

[@luciusirving5926]

Because it's one of the deadly sports even devised and has been banned from competitions for a very long time. With competition aside, this could help you win against a street fighter, distort the shit out of his body or kill him.

[@folksurvival]

It has been.

[@aliteralflamingpileofgarba6236]

Not dissimilar to Connor McGregor

[@mdach619]

#RZA 🔥

[@beepot2764]

Interesting.

[@Pellaeon159]

The pistol tip was hilarious. However, not being critical to pugilism as a historical discipline, most of this stuff is either well known, or even overcome. HEMA with swords is not, because noone does it, but fighting with fist just went on its merry way and has more relevant styles nowadays. This is still fascinating and definitely usefull against the tavern brawler type, which we still see in this day and age... but there are more effective systems out there nowadays, at least that is what common logic dictates.

[@CzornyLisek]

Pugilism turned into boxing(actually first boxing fights were still pugilism just with gloves). Pugilism work how it work because any damage to wrist or fingers was absolutely unacceptable back then and still is very serious injury. Also pugilism isn't just bare-knuckle boxing. It also wrestling ect. Let's say it's bare-knuckle-MMA/UFC without ground game.

[@paullytle246]

Czorńy Lisek more like bare knuckle sanda

[@puppetmaster413]

I see a lot of similarities to wing chun and xing yi

[@asa-punkatsouthvinland7145]

*because old Savate is cool lol

[@jeremyjackson8196]

Bad ass! I'm headed to the bar right now! ➡️🤜🤜🤜🤜🤜💥

[@CaptainLongbeardTuds]

hey Lee, nice beard!

[@Xzontyr]

It fairs really well against modern boxing. I bought "self defense for gentlemen and ladies" aswell by Mr. Monster. Me and a sparring buddy tried it out for a month testing it out. Its defense is beautiful, and it's obvious it was designed to protect the hands. It's great for takedown defense to. Punching with horizontal fists is alot more predictable and off balancing. People that bash this style of fighting dont understand what real combat is about. I know more guys that I have fingers on my right hand that have broken there hands in street fights or bouncing. Alot just resort to palm strikes now. This however is very interesting. Realistically, youd probably only get one good shot in before the guy really charged for you, but if a guy was good enough at keeping them back, this style could be really useful for self defense. Its hard getting use to trying to generate power the way described aswell, but after its proficiant, no doubt it could take a guys head off if practices enough. It's funny more guys in mma dont utilize it, however the reason that being is because it doesn't deal with aggressive chaos aswell. With gloves on your hands, train ing mma, you want your shot to be powerful and fast and unpredictable. Mma has almost made a new style of boxing. It is ironic though, if you start swinging with hooks to the top of a guys head full power in the street, your hands are gonna get wrecked unless you hit them in the jaw and nose every time. Lil hint (thank you bass rutten) when a guy puts his head down in a street fight, hit him behind the ear with palm strikes. Hel be tap dancing soon, and will allow you to take him down with mercy. I thi k if UFC is suppose to truly about combat testing, than make them lose the gloves. Let it be raw like vale Tudor back in the days. Than youl see real boxing and technique.

[@yilderim1924]

I enjoy learning about this stuff, the history of Western martial arts is interesting. I do think, though, both of these gentlemen would benefit from some intermittent fasting and carb reduction.