Player Perspective - The Devil's Arsenic

[@patricklinford689]

"Whoever you are DA, I consider you an equal." - DA

[@MrDrumStikz]

I mean, by definition you're equal to yourself.

[@meathir4921]

Ben is truly the pro DA. Somehow clawed his way out of the corner he wrote himself in with Ekin and burns half the game away despite Good getting two free days. I can’t wait for Ben to actually get Lycan though.

[@verdiss7487]

Spoilers: Never seen an evil team so utterly in control of the game. Good never stood a damn chance.

[@Streamcast]

Ben had WAY too much fun in this game! 😂😂

[@midgesmoot1739]

The script looks like a real gem.

[@DakotaAvery23]

Myself and navean made it and I’m really proud of it

[@midgesmoot1739]

@@DakotaAvery23 You should be. The possibilities!

[@LucyTheBox]

@@DakotaAvery23 there are multiple reason why evils might be stingy with sharing info with each other, such an evil list

[@mikef5951]

I was really hoping that Kat had been turned into the fool when she was executed so that she'd have lived again

[@TheAkiliDaniels]

As a Canadian (from BC), I had to pause this year-old video early on just to comment.....yeah, we're used to it XD but glad you had a good time out here!

[@MadManMcGirt]

Ben glad you enjoyed your visit to Canada. BTW Sabra fruit is from cactii and is very sweeet. (it can also be called the Prickley pear)

[@nathano6277]

Thank you father Benjamen.

[@Kantilvih]

Dont you mean "daddy" Ben

[@nathano6277]

@@Kantilvih A.K.A Daddy 'Two Dongs' Ben.

[@brockmarie]

Amazing game! Hilarious and so clever. Thanks to Aggie and Kota, and all the players!

[@kyleb8117]

Absolutely incredible watch. Also I love this script, which is no surprise to me because Navean and Kota designed it.

[@darbyl3872]

Spoiler: I assume that Mal was Pit-Hagged into the good Marionette? How does that work? Their ability, that works, is the demon knows them? If Kat had been turned into the evil Marionette, she would have been shown a good token, as well?

[@Ruminations09]

You're correct on both counts. Also the "You neighbor the demon" doesn't actually trigger because that's part of the game setup, not the Marrionette's ongoing ability.

[@maxmccamish8095]

From my understanding pit hagging someone into the Marionette is basically the same as making them the Drunk, but if there’s already a drunk, as there was, it doesn’t clash. So free second drunk.

[@OrdoGriseo]

so could the mezepheles turn a good player, be pit hagged to something, then the new evil player hagged into mezepheles and get a new word to turn another player, and repeat recycling the first turned players roll to keep mezepheles not in play to keep turning players?

[@nicksavage8772]

Yes, and this is why the Spirit of Ivory is added to the script, to make it so that only 1 player can turn evil

[@LucyTheBox]

Why were the minions so excited about turning someone into the lycanthrope? Is it just to bypass the monk protection or am I missing something? It didn't seem all that useful to me.

[@emisor9272]

There's some more uses on this script though. It also ensures a kill if the demon was made drunk by the sailor, and since the demon won't wake If the lycan kills, the chambermaid gets a reading of 0 from them

[@SickRedApple]

​@@emisor9272The second seems useful but the first wouldn't come up right? I can't imagine the ST ever making the demon sailer drunk when there isn't a lyca in play

[@zealot2147]

If good is struggling a ST could def do so

[@acenomadic]

Chambermaid info won't change from there being a Lycan, as the Demon still wakes regardless. Only the exorcist actually stops the demon from actually waking for their ability. Overall I am surprised by how excited people are by the idea of things like evil mayor or evil lycanthropes as they're pretty useless for the evil team. They are good for the good team as they give them power that usually belongs to evil, but if you already have control of the night kills and already win by skipping on 3 then there's no real point in wasting a night of pit haging for those abilities

[@vaultdweller64]

What a game, what a game, what a mighty good game.

[@Devo14218]

Should Ben’s DA protection have stopped his arbitrary death when Ryan changed back to an imp?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

DA protection makes players survive execution. Dying in the night is not execution. - Ben

[@elisedulova6100]

This has been so much fun. How does good baron work?

[@smifull]

A good baron is basically a blank role, as setup abilities don't happen when pit hagged

[@GordonHugenay]

Has anyone from the Pandemonium Institute ever done Only Connect? It sounds like a thing these people might do.

[@kjinskipify]

I'm trying to persuade some friends to sign up for it. A few of us are big fans!

[@rebekah4761]

I don't understand how the 2 simultaneous deaths would occur with the switch from lleech to imp. Can someone please explain how that happened mechanically?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

It's been over a year since this game. Any chance you could timestamp it so I can refresh my memory? - ben

[@jonzl9467]

During the night of a pit hag demon change deaths are arbitrary, and often the ST chooses to kill 2 people to signal that

[@rebekah4761]

​@@BloodontheClocktower 1:33:51 sorry I didn't see this sooner.

[@tmmaster6904]

​@@rebekah4761 as jonz said above, deaths are arbitrary if a new demon is made, so the storytellers can kill whoever and however many they want

[@larsg.2492]

Could somebody talk me through the night 7 deaths, please?

[@brockmarie]

I think the pit hag changed Ryan back into the imp that night. (During a pit hag demon change, deaths are arbitrary, up to the storytellers). The STs chose to kill Ben, probably for balance, and Malaki, who was no longer the farmer (had been changed to marionette) so the farmer token didn't pass on.

[@larsg.2492]

@@brockmarie Thank you so much. The arbitrary death wasn't clear to me during the summary and lets me understand the Pit Hag a bit more. I was wondering how something would break through PA protection, that makes sense to me know.

[@NoMercyOracle]

DA protection is only applicable to executions during the day.

[@LucyTheBox]

Oh, now it also makes sense why they wanted to change one of their own into the Lycanthrope! I think... With a Lycanthrope on the Evil side, they'd be able to control who dies while changing the demon? Or does "death are arbitrary" override the Lycanthrope?

[@ganema9]

@@brockmarie I don't see how that would function though... I'm confused myself about what happened that night... I know that the death during a Demon role switch is arbitrary... but there should still only be one death made possible by any of those demons. The only world where two people dying (to me) would have been Malaki being a Leech, choosing Ben as the host and Nadine turning Ryan back into the Imp, then arbitrarily killing Ben and Malaki alongside him... but it sounded like the explanation was simply that Ryan was turned back into the Imp and arbitrarily killed two people, despite only being to kill one? I'm confused...

[@yugiwinninglex]

How does evil farmer work?

[@MumblingPenguin]

It’s written that a good player becomes the farmer, so the new farmer would still be good as it doesn’t say that they also become your alignment

[@yugiwinninglex]

@@MumblingPenguin so it's kinda pointless to turn farmer evil besides getting a new player? Or making everyone a farmer lol.

[@whocaresreallly5886]

It also leads to people thinking you are a confirmed good player because except for mezz the farmer cannit be evil

[@Penguin-bx1wb]

@@yugiwinninglex stops the demon from accidentally killing the farmer, or can hard confirm the evil farmer as good

[@DasGanon]

Additionally you can *make* an evil farmer but it requires a Spy to register as good for the ability to fire

[@Devo14218]

What the heck happened on night 7?!

[@EBEZAplaysgames]

I watched Intro/Night 1 once and never heard or saw the Mez word? Did I miss it or was it not shown?

[@rosebreeds5057]

It was a custom token under ben

[@DakotaAvery23]

when did i st cyanide for the thursday group?

[@RoderickEtheria]

You wouldn't be told you were the Lunatic. You'd be told you were a demon.

[@meathir4921]

She claimed Demon was ignoring kills

[@RoderickEtheria]

@@meathir4921 I was referring to Ben stating he was going to claim he got told he got turned into the Lunatic overnight. You wouldn't be told you got turned into the Lunatic specifically.

[@q-tuber7034]

Neither the Barber swap nor the Pit Hag changes alignments. So if a good player is woken in the night and told “you are now [demon], you are EVIL,” they can immediately deduce that they are being lied to as the Lunatic.

[@RoderickEtheria]

@@q-tuber7034 it's still possible for a Pit Hag to make a good player a demon, just unlikely. And I'm not sure whether a Lunatic midgame would be told they were evil, or just that they were now the demon. Seems the Lunatic just needs to believe they are the demon, and if that is only possible as the good demon, they should be told they are the type of demon and good.

[@q-tuber7034]

@@RoderickEtheria yes, Pit Hag or Barber swap could lead to a good player being told in the night that they are now a good demon. That’s the easier case. “Hey guys, I was just told I am the Imp. So either I am the good demon and we kill me and win the game or I was Barber swapped with the Lunatic. Kat, are you now the Lycan?”

[@skruffytiger2002]

Technically shouldn't Kat have outed ben for giving her the mezeph word d1? I know that she knew she would become evil and then wouldn't want ben to leave, but at thetime he told her, technically she was still good and should have been compelled to try and win as town, right?

[@CerealSSBU]

Maybe, but oftentimes people just want to turn evil.

[@NoMercyOracle]

Firstly Ben did not out himself as Mez to Kat. He was listing out words he had apparently already heard as possible Mez words, effectively bluffing that he might be turning evil if they are real as Aggie was in the chat. Secondly players are not required to play to their current alignment, or in any particular way, so 'been compelled to' do anything in clocktower is never the case. Finally, strategically anyone should be playing for their final alignment, not necessarily their current one. This is why snake charmers, goon and politician lie constantly, and on any script where alignment chance is possible it is always wise to plan for that possibility.

[@Penguin-bx1wb]

assuming she was certain Ben was mez then she doesnt have to play her current alignment, a lot of roles play with the idea that they might become evil such as the Snake Charmer, Cult leader and goon Also becoming evil is fun

[@kyleb8117]

To add on to Sam's great response, let's just play Devil's Advocate (heh) and pretend you're right that she should be compelled to do that. She should now convince the whole town. The possible outcomes: 1) Town somehow goes with this. They kill Ben and she stays good. Hurrah! 2) Town goes with it. However, they don't muster enough votes to get Ben on the block. 3) Town goes with it. Ben is put on the block. Evil team (and/or a reasonable good player expecting it's a joke) lifts it off of Ben. 4) Town doesn't go with it and it gets shrugged off as a joke, or worse: assumes she's evil trying to frame him. Now with all these being possible worlds, only one works for her. Is your plan technically the most sound strategy? Should she be compelled to do it?

[@kjinskipify]

You might not believe it, but I thought it was just Ben being Ben. Lots of players joke with fake Mez words, and I didn't know I was changing teams until it happened. Fun game!