Bloodstones | Shelfside Review

[@maximjussim1024]

Just want to say, that your reviews are great! They are honest and thorough - for gamers by gamers. What I especially like is how you focus on the two most important aspects of gaming, which are neglected by most other reviewers: Player interaction and in game decisions. Keep going!

[@ashtonwu7760]

Thanks mate! Lots of stuff on the way :D

[@elqord.1118]

I was really hoping for this become a stone cold and timeless masterpiece

[@refreshdaemon]

I really like how Bloodstones looks, but I feel like Small World covers this style of asymmetric area control game in my collection.

[@Danny_DaKid]

Since you asked, Martin Wallace has a skirmish game called Wildlands. I think it’s a great skirmish game for new players, no dice, and it teaches in under 2 min

[@ashtonwu7760]

Cheers, will note that one

[@demonicbunny3po]

Looks interesting. Would love to get a play of it. Seems like a great time for me.

[@wayner396]

I like the old school feel and was thinking this reminds me of games i loved as a kid. Though i do wish they had an option of symmetrical players and tiles making it a straight strategy/area control game as well.

[@IndianaGeologist]

Thanks for reviewing all the player counts!

[@vincentw6051]

Great review. I only played at 2 and 3 players and found it fun. I would say my enjoyment comes from pulling off an attack move that no one sees coming, like zipping across a chain of ships to surround an enemy to destroy thier stack. Feel like i am commanding an army worring most about logistics of limited resources for everything i want to do. An expansion is coming and i can see them adding things like land portals or capture points. But, not sure i would want to play with more than 2 or 3. 3 players resulted in me being ganged up on, but i still won because they gifted me battle points by losing when they attacked.

[@Monkeyman3251]

Great video! And Great job on the breakdown of the physicality of the pieces and how it impacts the experience! I feel like a lot of reviewers out there don't really think about that long term so I appreciate it 😀

[@SibkoDC]

The new campaign is actually adding army markers...yay!

[@keenanseable5736]

OH MY GOD THE BAG!!!! GENIUS

[@HamoodyDarbaDoody]

Breaks my heart, reviewing a game that looks fun but immediately being told "you can't buy this" haha. Fun review and fun looking game though

[@Shelfside]

its a travesty, I do hope its buy-able from their website at some point -Ashton

[@VaultBoy13]

They're going to Crowdfund a reprint with expansion.

[@WallaceDesigns]

@@Shelfside we do still have a couple of copies left, it just depends where you are. Heaps in my office here in Australia haha

[@Shelfside]

@@WallaceDesigns ohoho! Thanks for the heads up :D -Ashton

[@benroyles4826]

It’s back

[@RottenJeeves]

Thanks for the review. I was on the fence about this one. The art and tiles look amazing but there are a TON of wargames out there.

[@jankogo]

I am really sad that I missed the Kickstarter on this one and the expansion. I love Wallace and this seems like quite the unique experience.

[@BradyJacksonWolfe]

Looks like late pledge is still open on Gamefound right now if you haven’t seen that already. That’s what brought me to this video. Still a chance to back it.

[@SWAT6809]

I'm honestly impressed that you feel confident reviewing a game after 8 total plays and how in depth you manage to go, but I suppose with a game length of 2.5h you got plenty of playtime compared to the game count. Im a sucker for games that have great components, this game looks SO fun to have in hand. You can see the attention to detail. On the other hand the imbalance and oversized pieces sounds like a nightmare. Its definitely a game I'd like to try out.

[@Shelfside]

The playtesting was a long process for sure, but I feel a lot more comfortable making the review by talking to everyone playing, which means the ideas are inspired by a lot of our friend's experiences. See if you can try it out TTS if possible -Ashton

[@SWAT6809]

@@Shelfside I didnt even account for something that obvious. Of course you technically have access to x4 the amount of experience through your playgroup. Regardless a great display of pros and cons from your (collective) pov! Not too big on TTS gaming, for me tabletop hobbies are intentionally analogue. For me the enjoyment of games often goes hand in hand with a good tactile experience, the prospect of which got me excited before your very valid cons part. If I ever run into the game in the wild, Ill make sure to give it a try (and play the chaos faction). :D

[@piesandhiking4943]

Most KZbinrs would do a lot less than these guys. They are the best.

[@Local_Field1972]

This looks amazing, you just cost me $137! It can't get here soon enough.

[@ryangilmore3678]

Another fantastic review. Appreciate you guys!

[@bossman4799]

I really liked your explanation of the Kingmaking problem in certain games. I actually have a fun story about (good?) kingmaking that I remember. It was a 4 player game of Civilization. After most of the game played out, one player and I realized we likely wouldn't win, so each of us started supporting one of the other 2 players. It came down to a final turn, where the person I was backing needed to take the other contender's capital or else that person wins a culture victory. They were both pumped up with tons of resources from the other backed out player and I, and the game ended with that huge final battle. Very exciting, but a rare occurrence.

[@Shelfside]

Nice, that sounds really epic! That's why we play civ! -Ashton

[@matthewrichardson1805]

Fantastic review! Deep, honest and entertaining.

[@waitforasa4900]

Also I love shelfside !

[@thediminutivesoldier]

I just did a review of this too on my channel. And yours is so so much better. I give up. haha

[@Noobwater]

This is definitely a solo game for me. The scenario variety is good.

[@brianmattei7134]

Haven't gotten to the Cons yet, but this seems like absolute crack to me. I LOVE wargames, and given that this is solo, this seems right up my alley.

[@Shelfside]

nice! At least look at the scoring section before buying if you can haha -Ashton

[@Bloodstoner]

The solo is phenomenal. If you like movement/combat puzzles it does an excellent job of introducing you to all of the factions as you play, stringing together a little story that connects all of it. 3 Missions with each of the 6 factions for 18 Solo Scenarios total.

[@WallaceDesigns]

@@Bloodstoner loving that user name

[@MeanderingMikesManCave]

Great review! Personally, I am most interested in Bloodstones for the Solo play. Have you had a chance to play any more Solo?

[@rorymcanulty477]

Love your reviews. At 31:00 you basically describe what chip theory games is trying to accomplish with Wroth. Have you had a chance to check it out?

[@arepasaxo]

Any posibility of you reviewing Quest (with directors cut rules)? The Resistance: Avalon sequel. I heard is a lot different and a lot of people say its better that resistance/Avalon entirely.

[@Shelfside]

Oh, interesting. I had to some research- its not listed on their website or amazon anymore. Only Avalon deluxe? I'd be interested, would have to rope in daniel harshly since he doesn't like social deduct like that at all. -Ashtoin

[@arepasaxo]

I think avalon deluxe is a frankenstein of a Avalon and Quest. Is its own thing i think. I recommend to search for a friend who has Quest. I belive its a good game it just didnt sell well. And had an awful publisher vs Author that culminated in the game needing a new edition of the rules made by the author.

[@Shelfside]

@@arepasaxo Gotcha! Noted. We still have to cover Blood on clocktower too ahaha.

[@Danny_DaKid]

Have you guys reviewed clash of cultures monumental edition?

[@Big_Dai]

Is combat in this game (for anyone that has played it) just the right level of complex? Or a little too much?

[@Bloodstoner]

It's exactly what I want out of a combat system. It has just the right amount of mitigation (which comes at a cost) to balance out what is ultimately a pretty small window of randomness. It's honestly very straightforward, and because the game doesn't encourage large stacks, 90% of fights are super readable.

[@lightningninja6905]

Huh, yknow I'm not a fan of ads, but i prefer when they're more specific to the channel, like this one. Good job.

[@IronSalamander8]

I've been playing wargames since the late 70s when I was a kid and could pick up those Microgames from Metagaming since they were only 2-3 dollars each! So I love wargames, and my first play with this felt good, but not really a wargame for me, more of a dudes on a map game, although the lines between the 2 types is pretty narrow. But as I played it more, like you, it got less and less engaging and enjoyable, and I'm so glad I didn't back it. The village scoring feels very odd and doesn't feel like it makes sense thematically, that end game rush is very same-y, and it the asymmetry is so minimal that it doesn't make the game pop enough to really enjoy it. Very lackluster when all is said and done.

[@waitforasa4900]

32:07 what’s the big looking game with the golden emblem in the background once Daniel starts his score

[@ashtonwu7760]

Oathsworn! We played it later that day haha

[@yourilicht631]

When are we getting your John Company review??

[@Zombie8tHeart]

Another game that came out last year was, "Crescent Moon", another game that was inspired by Chaos in the Old World. It does have interesting combat and diplomacy mechanics, but does suffer from Balance issues, but what asymmetric area control doesn't?

[@navnnavn1226]

It's not awfully imbalanced, is it? I only felt that the nomad was weak

[@Baldricksturnip]

Oh Martin Wallace's rulebooks, they sure can be something. It made playing the Arrival so confusing we didn't know how the battles and the Fumori giants actually work. It ended up being such a bad experience I sold it afterwards.

[@WallaceDesigns]

We're always trying to improve, Bloodstones was our first production under this label.

[@felidonis_4z40]

Shelf side should do a vindication review

[@otakuofmine]

its intrigueing, so sad for the cons. needs a 2nd edition

[@fufu1405]

Dude is sponsored by a private server hahahah love it

[@Exozik]

This looks like a area control out of the 90'. I tried it once on steam and I quickly understood how archaic the system was. There is a lot of better AC games out there. Seems Martin Wallace didn't do his homework for this one.

[@among01]

Apologies if I misunderstood you, but Citadels (like castles and villages) cannot be built anywhere. No buildings can be constructed on mountains, deserts, and water.

[@ashtonwu7760]

Yep you’re correct! Me saying “everywhere” is a tad misleading- it meant to just convey the sense of freedom

[@pepsi-man76]

Bloodstones: 🚫 Root: Birmingham: ✅

[@davidvelazquez677]

Are you guys big fans of GoT2e and TI4?

[@Bloodstoner]

Funnily enough, I think the Horse Lords have won a total of once in our over a dozen plays, despite being in all of our games. The Corsairs thus far have been the best, their ability to see the combat tiles beforehand (paired with gaining an extra point from winning said combat) is extraordinarily powerful if you use it right. We also have never had a stack fall over or anything like that? I agree some of the spots could be bigger, but it hasn't been nearly as much of an issue as you make out. Also don't remember anyone ever "accidentally" showing someone else their combat tiles. Maybe if you're playing in a super tight space? Working on a review right now and while the game isn't perfect, your scores don't line up with our group's experience at all. For me I guess it's just a matter of perspective. I love that Bloodstones is straightforward and highly readable on the mat. I am so sick of board games where there's constantly a new "gotcha" mechanic being pulled out of a hat. It's always "well, actually, I have this tech or this card or this ability you didn't know I had and now I win the fight you thought you had won!". Or even worse, "actually, it's better that I lost the fight, in fact, I'm going to win the whole game by losing fight after fight!". This game feels like a war to me, rather than a series of back and forth battles that often times barely affect the overall course of the game. In Bloodstones, I feel the arc of conflict and movement. To each their own, I suppose. Appreciate the perspective either way.

[@SWAT6809]

I wonder why the score of someone who named their youtube-account after the actual game doesn't line up.. :D

[@Bloodstoner]

@@SWAT6809 The name of the Channel is 'The Strategists'. And I made my username Bloodstoner after playing the game a bunch of times and loving it? You know you can change your username, right? Since it's the game we've been playing a lot and we're excited about it I chose that as a temporary name for the moment. To be clear, I bought the game aftermarket so paid extra, and it should be rather obvious that our channel doesn't have anywhere near enough cache to be sponsored in any way. At the end of the day, I respect Shelfside and love their reviews on the whole. I agree with them wholeheartedly where some games are concerned (Scythe being a perfect example). Bloodstones is definitely not a game for everyone, but some of the critiques in here are just so incongruent with what I've experienced having played it a bunch I felt compelled to comment. Like, the Horse Lords are nowhere near a dominant faction. That might be the meta in their group, but it's not the case on the whole.

[@funnyonlineuploads]

"I am so sick of board games where there's constantly a new "gotcha" mechanic being pulled out of a hat." All games come with rulebooks, which you're free to read up beforehand. Or stop playing with people who withhold rules from you during the teach...

[@branboom3342]

​@@funnyonlineuploadsi believe theyre referring to games like Blood Rage etc., where all units are equal, except this monster has a unique ability and this other troop counts as +5 etc etc., which can be really hard to keep track of when 4 players all have rule-bending powers. Its why Kemet didnt hit for me: too much asymmetry that I just couldnt track. And i taught the game!

[@anggaabrianata9926]

Whut, they are all legit cons for the games. Hoping the next edition provide a player screen or something for combat and hand conceal as I can see that flashing to your opponent can be a problem over time. and yeah hate tussle in bag, they fall off many time. The map could be bigger (The second issue I have after hand conceal)

[@Guayabaman305]

It's Cavalry, not Calvary!

[@Shelfside]

haha, you got me! -Ashton

[@michelecarbone2896]

This is a subtle game and not for everyone. You can be out of the race if you set up in the wrong place. You can destroy your economy by deploying the wrong units. The faction balance is very subtle and the strength of each faction are not evident. It's unapologetically old school, strategic and tight. Your critique of the components is overblown, to be frank. Agree on the bags, but stacking of the unit is very simple, you don't need to spread them out like that. Most of them are just a +1 so you just need to count them when they are on a stack. The perceived unbalance is, well, just your opinion. I have won games with Dragon Riders without pulling Dragons, so the swinginess is kind of, probably group dependent. Clearly not for your group.

[@Cyclone1335]

11:32 I don't think Hill Folk can go on mountains.

[@Shelfside]

hill folk can move into mountains at a pip cost of 3! -Ashton

[@Cyclone1335]

@@Shelfside Just double-checked. You're right! Probably should have done that before commenting haha. Sorry about that. On the other hand, look at all this engagement! The algo is sure to prioritize this video now!

[@Shelfside]

@@Cyclone1335 haha, no worries. It's definitely a big part of the hill folk that isn't made very clear in the rulebook! -Ashton

[@olebrommm]

Why arnt you my neighbour. Would be so fun

[@aaronblahut6834]

It's Cavalry not Calvary!

[@Shelfside]

haha, a bit of a mispronouncing every once in a whlie from me, I'm working on it! -AShton

[@ericjimenez7423]

I love your reviews, but why review a game we can't buy unless someone sells their copy at a huge mark-up later?

[@WallaceDesigns]

There are limited copies available on our website and a reprint and expansion in the works. But also, maybe he just wanted to review it, some people enjoy the creative part of it.

[@sirhc8927]

Gave it a better score than Rising Sun. Unforgivable.

[@Shelfside]

Hahaha, thing with Rising Sun is that I didn't like it out of the gate, here I did -Ashton

[@Mrappbrain966]

I miss the days wheb Shelfside used to review games that we could actually buy or play. Your reviews for games like Wingspan and Rising Sun are some of my favourites on this website. But ever since you guys started doing paid reviews it seems to be mostly super expensive kickstarter stuff, a lot of which is in pre-production or you cant buy at all. I dont even get the point of a review for a product you can't buy - it's basically just fomo marketing, rather than buyer's advice.

[@ashtonwu7760]

I started production of this review thinking it was available for people to buy, then, what the heck it doesn’t have retail!!? I’m hearing it’s gonna have a reprint with some more expansions so I’m looking forward to that. As for games you can buy, review coming soon! But yeah a lot of the industry has shifted towards campaigns, and we’re doing our best to cover what is relevant and interesting to us, a tricky blend.

[@prisonmike1576]

Garage! Trash!

[@aminzarei8078]

I just rather play kemet

[@aminzarei8078]

Or battle for rokugan

[@mruziicak]

Looks like a cash grab imo

[@smoogums89]

Bro you gotta cut your nails. I thought a goblin was grabbing pieces on those close ups on your hand Daniel.

[@Shelfside]

hah, at least they're clean -Ashton

[@trackerholmes6720]

Honestly.. the combat should use 3-4 D8s instead of tiles.

[@Shelfside]

the mechanics totally fine as is, since it interacts with your hand which is cool, and mitigates well. Just needs to be faster -Ashton

[@trackerholmes6720]

@@Shelfside I disagree completely.. Being Tiles? Serve no Purpose. Less materials, game cheaper. Rolling good and fast. You can still interact with your Hand's Tiles to "change a Roll" (discard tile to modify). The rest of the system doesn't need to change to accommodate for the change.

[@VaultBoy13]

The tiles takes about the same amount of time as rolling dice and potentially substituting a result. It's on the faster end for combat resolution. In order of speed these types of games are ordered something like this: - Small World (no randomizer) - Evo (roll a die) - Cyclades (roll dice) - Blood Rage/Ankh (no randomizer, pick a card) - Dwellings of Eldervale (roll dice, possible modifier) - Bloodstones (bag pull, possible modifier) - Cthulhu Wars (roll a large pool of dice, activate special powers) - Kemet (pick 2 card and use 1, modify it with 1 or more cards) - Nexus Ops (roll dice, repeat for each unit type) - Inis (we keep removing units until we both agree to stop or only one faction is left) - Scythe (pick a number, pick one or more cards)