1986 Breeders Cup Turf Santa Anita Full Race Dancing Brave, Manila

[@watfordtripod]

Simply put Dancing Brave was Pegasus, The greatest horse .

[@seanscanlon9067]

Dancing Brave's trainer talking about Enable's chances at the Breeders' Cup. "Dancing Brave had done a long season and when one looks back there were just the signs he was probably going past his best and he got very dehydrated in California. "In those days we didn't realise that the best way to do it was to race them off the plane. We had him out there for a while. "He never got over the dehydration, so he never got back to his best racing weight. It was one of those things. "I'd have thought Enable would have a great chance. I think she should enjoy the ground and she is drawn two, which is good. "It will be wonderful to watch."

[@oot007]

Enable - 3 King Georges, 2 Arcs, 1 Breeders Cup vs Dancing Brave 1 King George, 1 Arc and failed at Breeders Cup.

[@ormonde1111]

Thanks for adding this! Such a shame Dancing Brave didn't give his true running, after getting a clod of dirt in his eye.

[@seanscanlon9067]

@Gary Pollard "The only thing found to be wrong with Dancing Brave afterwards was an eye injury thought to have been caused by kickback from where the turf course crosses the dirt track, but what that contributed to his performance, if anything, was impossible to say. He’d had a long season, and what was certain was that he didn’t give his true running". That obviously did not help but probably what beat the horse was dehydration, the amount of weight lost in the time it was over in America and it being a relatively new thing at the time for GB trainers to take their horses to the meeting. These days there is very little time from coming off the plane to the actual race. Yet back then it was thought horses needed time to acclimatise, which was probably true but they did not really know for how long and Dancing Brave had two weeks and had lost that weight. The accepted thinking now seems to be around four weeks to acclimatise or a smash and grab style visit, where there is little time between the flight and the race itself.

[@grahammonro6500]

And he lost 15lb stuck in quarantine.. Can't help thinking it was loaded in the US horses favour.. But Manilla was a Great Horse too.. And Dancing Braves Half Brother..

[@steveo7165]

Brough "Is this the Wonder Horse" Yes, In England & France he put up some Awesome races performances 🏇🏇🏇🏇💥💥

[@Caroni100]

Manila: (1983 - February 28, 2008) * Sire: Lyphard * Grandsire: Northern Dancer * Dam: Dona Ysidra * Damsire: Le Fabuleux * Sex: Stallion * Breeder: Eduardo Cojuangco Jr. * Owners: Eduardo Cojuangco Jr. & Bradley M. Shannon * Trainer: LeRoy Jolley (R.I.P.) * Jockeys: Fernando Toro Jacinto Vasquez Jose Santos Angel Cordero Jr. * 18 Starts * 12 Wins * 5 Seconds * U.S.$ 2,692,799 earned (Current $6,347,548) * 1987 American Champion Male Turf Horse * Inducted to The National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame in 2008 * Rest In Peace, Champion! * Greetings from Venezuela. Manila: (1983 - 28 de Febrero, 2008) * Padre: Lyphard * Abuelo paterno: Northern Dancer * Madre: Dona Ysidra * Abuelo materno: Le Fabuleux * Sexo: Semental * Criador: Eduardo Cojuangco Jr. * Propietarios: Eduardo Cojuangco Jr. & Bradley M. Shannon * Entrenador: LeRoy Jolley (Q.E.P.D.) * Jinetes: Fernando Toro Jacinto Vásquez José Santos Ángel Cordero Jr. * 18 Salidas * 12 Primeros * 5 Segundos * U.S.$ 2,692,799 producidos ($6,347,548 actuales) * Caballo Campeón de Grama en Estados Unidos 1987 * Exaltado al Museo Nacional de las Carreras y Salón de la Fama en 2008 * ¡Descansa En Paz, Campeón! * Saludos desde Venezuela.

[@andrewblackie7170]

Listen if our Greatest Grass horse was 100% & not under weight & Dehydrated he would've left Manila in Manila who beat a horse in the Belmont Turf Classic by a head & that horse who was also ridden by the same jockey that rode Dancing Brave was rated 23 lb INFERIOR to our Champion so shows you how great Manila was. No horse in the world would've beaten Dancing Brave at his best. P.s Watch the 1986 Arc De Triomphe & watch what he does to a feild with 18 G1's & 4 Derby Winners.

[@kevinmunday5782]

This race was always a huge risk for DB, after a long season. The slow pace, the round and round track, it was set for defeat all the way. I remember manila trainer , slagging off dancing brave afterwards, guy Harwood would have been a gentleman if it had been other way round tho ....

[@oot007]

Huge risk? Not so for Enable - 3 King Georges, 2 Arcs, 1 Breeders Cup vs Dancing Brave 1 King George, 1 Arc and failed at Breeders Cup.

[@chrispafrieddreams9118]

Let's see; Theatrical, Dancing brave, Estrapade, and Manila in the same race? Wow!!❤️🙏👉🇺🇸

[@hare1729]

Got at,this wasn't the dancing brave we all know and love.

[@myfrobert]

DB's crushing defeat here, IMO, made his legacy overlooked by some of those Americans and make some stereotype thoughts towards the then European horse racing. Because of the likes of Northern Dancer, the US horse racing did deeply influence and was truely superior than the European counterpart before the beginning of this century, since many of those then European top flat horses were bred in America, including DB himself (and, of course, as well as the currently active City Of Troy). Besides, I guess this race also became one of the reasons why Frankel didn't go to the US decades later. I heard some of those yanks thought this so-called invincible thing would be eventually blown out of water by their local hero, Wise Dan.

[@oot007]

Frankel would have been smashed in the Breeders Cup. He could never last 12f which is why he never ran in the English Derby, King George and The Arc.

[@mwilliams8469]

DB had lost 15 pounds in quarantine !! .... so you saw nowhere near his best unfortunately. He didn't have his usual afterburner finish on the home straight. Always difficult having to ship horses to other continents to compete. Luckily with the Arc - that's a very short and easy trip. Everything else (US, Aus, .....) it's rather difficult and you won't get a true reflection alas.

[@steveo7165]

Would have loved him to have been put away after the Arc & kept in training as a 4yo, but his Stud value (and the 80's trend of early retirement for top class horses) meant that was not going to happen. But Brave's one of the Greats, He will never be forgotten🏇😊

[@KevinMunday-oh6xq]

​@@steveo7165Two races it would be lovely to have seen, Nijinsky v Mill reef and dancing brave v reference point

[@doodles863]

Both of Dancing Braves defeats were on left handed tracks

[@jcanyiam8309]

RUBBISH!!! ..Left-hand track had nothing to do with his defeat in the Derby, watch it again- The JOCKEY thought He was on Pegasus!!!

[@kieran3389]

@@jcanyiam8309 it’s not rubbish he didn’t handle the track in Epsom come down tattenham corner he was all over the shop lost couple lengths there

[@kevinmunday5782]

@@kieran3389 I agree Greville did Nothing wrong at all

[@seanscanlon9067]

@@kieran3389 But Dancing Brave possibly not handling the track at Epsom had nothing to do with it being a left-handed track and everything to do with the camber and especially when challenging so wide and high up the camber due to the size of the field. In another year with fewer runners, he probably would have won. And that thing about horses preferring going one way over another is largely irrelevant in flat racing and more of a thing in jump racing, where a horse might be disadvantaged if say it jumps to the left on a right-handed course and has to be continuously straightened up after every obstacle.

[@davidmalpass7129]

No excuses for DB, I taped this on my VHS and noticed DB had turf kicked up into his eye turning in to the straight.

[@Caroni100]

"I rode him five times and never got beat with him. He beat all the champions in the Breeder´s Cup. When people ask me what´s the best turf horse I´ve ridden, I say Manila" Jose Santos (April 26, 1961 - ) Hall of Fame jockey Greetings from Venezuela "Lo monté cinco veces y nunca tuve tropiezos con él. Venció a todos los campeones en la Copa de Criadores. Cuando la gente me pregunta cuál es el mejor caballo de césped que he montado, digo Manila" José Santos (26 de Abril 1961 - ) Jinete del Salón de la Fama Saludos desde Venezuela.

[@grahammonro6500]

This was disgraceful. Dancing Brave was kept inside in Quarantine. He lost over a Stone in weight during that time. He was cheated out of his chance to win. And then there was the dirt in his eye. You can see him last furlong. Just trotting on the spot. Nothing like his real form. Also, I think that Arc of 1986 really took it's toll. I think only Triptych raced on after that Arc from the Top 6 horses. Very good horse though Manilla.

[@oiooi6460]

What dirt? He was on the turf. Just not good enough

[@ianharvey992]

A sad end to a great career. It hurts to watch it. You're right, she shouldn't have gone and deserved better. The most exciting and charismatic horse ever.

[@roberto4001000]

He

[@roberttaylor6577]

This race was a tactical masterpiece it took the sting out of dancing braves finish

[@philrussell9564]

One race to many for Dancing Brave after starting off in the Craven in April. I was lucky enough to be at Sandown to see him win the Eclipse. All time great horse.

[@mallafets]

A fit DB would of beat these no problem off a fast or slow pace. The 2K G was slow and he flew past a champion sprinter in the last 2f. The Arc was a fast pace and he passed 8 Gr1 winners in 1f. Theatrical was average in UK and a good 14lbs below DB. DB almost died a few months after this race with Maries disease. One race too many but it was worth a try he was that good. Its a shame Triptych, Sharastani or Shardari did not run here as they would of been a good yardstick to see now far below DB performed.

[@oot007]

@@mallafets Dancing Brave beating 8 G1 winners sounds impressive but compare that to 9 times G1 winner Better Loosen Up who defeated an international field of 14 other runners when he won the Japan Cup (the long time world championship of horse racing showdown invitational of the world's best) that included 10 other G1 winners that won G1 races in Japan, UK, Ireland, Germany, Italy, Australia, USA and Canada. In the G1 Segenhoe Stakes Better Loosen Up was in last position 6 wide on the home turn when he defeated a field that included 8 other G1 winners that had won between them 42 Group 1 races including the reigning Japan Cup champion Horlicks who held the world record time of 2:22.2 for the benchmark distance of mile and a half. As a comparison Manilla won this Breeders Cup at a time of 2:25.40.

[@ThefightingCelt]

Bear in mind that on the two occasions Dancing Brave lost it was on left handed tracks .

[@kevinmunday5782]

And tight turn left hand tracks too...

[@RO-uf9ii]

Very true

[@seanscanlon9067]

It's coincidence and irrelevant that they were left had tracks considering once coming off the final bend then it is a long straight regardless as to which way the course turns. The issue with what way a course turns mainly matters in jump racing, where if say a horse is constantly jumping out to its left on a right-handed course then it will need constant correcting its racing line after each obstacle, when it is losing ground each time. Punters hear that said about a jumps horse and then repeat it as a reason for a flat racing horse as if it actually matters.

[@RO-uf9ii]

@@seanscanlon9067 Have a day off Sean, u r so passive aggressive, more important things in life...

[@seanscanlon9067]

@@RO-uf9ii OK so maybe take your own advice then considering you seem to think it is OK for you to express your views but apparently not for me. Not really sure either how you decide something is said from words on a screen and no tone, like if it was spoken.

[@malcs0]

Theatrical ran in the 1985 Epsom Derby behind Slip Anchor, but like many horses then went over to America where conditions and other arrangements probably suited him better. I remember watching this race live in the UK when C4 did the coverage. The Americans, in my opinion, fixed this because I have never seen American horses start a race so slowly, even over this distance. Dancing Brave was invited over to run, but it was a bad decision, and rather added to the his mixed fortunes of what I would consider a controversial, if at times brilliant, career.

[@yipyappyyip]

malcs0 :47 for a half mile is not slow for a mile and a half turf race in America. In fact, :47 would be considered slightly aggressive.

[@cd-jimenez3279]

Fixed...please Manila smoked him...and he was only getting better, as a 4 year old he was even Better!

[@michaelmarra5921]

Everyone get over it, Manila proved who was BEST!! Keep coming up with your SILLY excuses!!!

[@seanscanlon9067]

@@michaelmarra5921 Reasons and excuses are not the same thing. Theatrical was nowhere near the class of Dancing Brave, yet Manila struggled to beat him.

[@robertthornton9850]

Won £90 on Manila.

[@douglaslewis866]

So tired of people who are not aware of the toughest grass horse ever. as well as a number of fantastic races on the dirt...the immortal Round Table........Just check out his record.......SEC . never carried more than 126 lbs......RT hardly ever carried less than 130 lbs......won with 137 lbs in the Hollywood Gold cup... also horse of the year 2 times leading grass sire for a few years........people just check out his record as well as you tube vid..... he would crush Sec. at equal weights.......the most over -rated horse in racing history.......the euros would have also crushed Sec,.....he was great, but not the greatest ever.

[@andrewblackie7170]

I agree with you about Secretariat never carrying big weights friend but don't all the horses in the Triple Crown races carry the same weight ? Also doesn't he still hold the RECORDS for these races ? I know he still has the Belmont 2.24 Flat which I don't think will ever be beaten, well not in my lifetime. But Round Table is considered the GREATEST grass horse in US history & rightly so with what he did: 66 Starts, 43 Wins, 8 x 2nd, 5x 3rd. Won 31 Stakes Races & set or equalled 16 Track Records. In Arlington H'Cap given between 21-30lb away he ran 1.53 2/5 sec's WR for 1 mile 3/16's. At stud he sired 275 winners, with 83 Stakes winners & 5 Champions WOW!! 👍 Absolutely a Champion on & off the track.

[@andrewblackie7170]

Until I saw you're comment friend I'd never heard of Round Table, I'm Scottish & he was before my time by 18yrs sadly as it would've been amazing to see him run.

[@KevinMunday-oh6xq]

Secretariat was a one off, on Dirt and grass. He could win from any position, on Turf he could go flat out at the front, and when challenged, accelerate again, in the Belmont he ran the first half at sprinter pace and just got faster. No Horse ever born would have beaten him that day. He literally had a huge heart, and a huge Girth , a freak of Nature for Sure .

[@douglaslewis866]

Well thank for a far more accurate look at the Tables record......so surprised that so many people from Big Reds generation never heard of the Table.....or for that matter Bold Ruler, Native Dancer, Dr Fager who at equal weights would have given Big Red all he could handle. He also set world records with 130lbs+......thanks again........won with 137 lbs on the dirt..that's something

[@andrewblackie7170]

@@douglaslewis866 : I'm not from that era friend, slightly after but i think Bold Ruler & Dr fager were both foaled in 1964 which is a shame as both were Great Champions & of course Native Dancer in 1950 out of Natalma who should've won the Triple Crown but for losing just in the Kentucky Derby sadly. Native Dancer was one of the best that ever ran in my opinion of course, but better than Secretariat, Man O' War, Citation, Round Table, Swaps or Spectacular Bid who Bill Shoemaker rated his GOAT or even Zenyatta, Rachel Alexander, California Chrome & Flightline ? I guess the debate in the pub will go on & on....... I've not even mentioned Forego & Sunday Silence in there or the European Greats who's rated higher with Frankel 147 HIGHEST EVER with Sea Bird 145, Tudor Minstrel 144, Abernant & Ribot 142, Mill Reef 141 & then I'm a bit Dumbfounded as Dancing Brave has same rating as Sea The Stars, Dubai Millennium, Shergar & Harbinger ? OK he won the King George & QE by 10 L from an underpar Workforce, Cape Blanco, Daryakana & Youmzain 2x 2nd in Arc OK & got to remember this was Harbinger 1st G1 win so to rate that Horse with Dancing Brave is ludicrous & only 1 pound higher than Reference Point, Generous & Arrogate is embarrassing Dancing Braves Performances & I think it's disgusting.

[@timhennessey7778]

Manila was the best

[@davidfoster2006]

No he was not.

[@MegaALEXLOUIS]

The commentator is woeful 😂

[@andrewblackie7170]

Should never have taken Dancing Brave to the US. He was in quarantine to long & lost a bit weight BUT most importantly he had nothing to prove. Should've been retired straight after his Arc. You could see he was wrong because Pat was moving up alot earlier than he ever did in the King George & Arc.

[@oot007]

>"Should never have taken Dancing Brave to the US" Excuses. A true all time great horse can back up and win again and again at the elite level across countries and continents. Enable 3 King Georges, 2 Arcs, 1 Breeders Cup vs Dancing Brave 1 King George, 1 Arc and failed at Breeders Cup.

[@WESSERPARAQUAT]

in fairness believe you me Dancing Brave was abit shite here not quite as game as a pebble not quite his self but he had lovely hooves

[@cd-jimenez3279]

Manila.... The best American grass horse ever#Dethroned the wonder horse😉

[@connorduke4619]

Secretariat was greater on turf.

[@kevinmunday5782]

@@connorduke4619 secretariat was greatest ever imho and im a brit

[@yipyappyyip]

Kingslayer_nation 123 Lyphard class

[@Caroni100]

"I rode him five times and never got beat with him. He beat all the champions in the Breeder´s Cup. When people ask me what´s the best turf horse I´ve ridden, I say Manila" Jose Santos (April 26, 1961 - ) Hall of Fame jockey Manila: (1983 - February 28, 2008) Sire Lyphard Grandsire Northern Dancer Dam Dona Ysidra Damsire Le Fabuleux *18 Starts *12 Victories * 5 Seconds *Earnings: U.S.$ 2,692,799 *American Champion Male Turf Horse (1987) *Inducted to The National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame (2008) Greetings from Venezuela.

[@seanscanlon9067]

Three horses "dethroned" the wonder horse here, so that alone should tell you that Dancing Brave did not run his race.

[@nightowl7459]

Quite sad to see a great racehorse run his last race in defeat.

[@robertdelacy3434]

He was a terrible sire

[@nightowl7459]

@@robertdelacy3434 Many great horses fail at stud, just one of those things, Frankle got it right just in time, once they get past their third or fourth crop and don't produce anything of real note the breeders start looking at other stallions and they start getting sent mares of lesser quality.

[@MrMrdonpitbull]

His son won the Epsom Derby in 1993 , Commander In Chief, Yeah really terrible! Smh.

[@nightowl7459]

@@MrMrdonpitbull I didn't realise that.

[@MrMrdonpitbull]

That's ok nightowl, was more directed at the person who said he was a terrible sire. I am 59yrs old, and Dancing Brave was the finest, and also unluckiest most brilliant horse I have ever seen. Good enough for this lifelong fan of the sport of Kings. All the best!

[@noelambrosio9373]

The Lincol NGA> 86 22 56=11

[@oiooi6460]

I don't get why Dancing Brave is so highly rated. He never won when it counted - the Derby, this race - and nearly all the races he did win were against a handful of not very good horses

[@mallafets]

@@oiooi6460 lol does the 2000G, KG and Arc not count?

[@EddieCr]

You won't see a better lineup than his Arc field. Also Pat Eddery said he was not the same horse by then.

[@oiooi6460]

@mallafets the KG had a very few horses.

[@michaelmarra5921]

People who don't properly recognize Manila, a 3yo at that, as absolutely brilliant are simply not the"knowing" horse people they think they are. Excuses, excuses, excuses!!!! Silly!!

[@barbaradyson6951]

Wonder how many of those horses were on drugs.

[@toddk8114]

Excuses excuses excuses. Very good horse but not great. As I’ve said over and over the European jockeys stink when it comes to rating horses. They’d be just average in America. And let’s stop with dehydration. Lol if he was dehydrated he’d never be near any of these horses

[@don__hector7845]

biased and blinkered,the judges in uk and ireland say he was the greatest,15kg of weight he didnt take the travelling it hppens

[@davidfoster2006]

You sure talk some crap.

[@don__hector7845]

@@davidfoster2006 fantastic input david

[@seanscanlon9067]

@@don__hector7845 It is true though, although I think the comment was meant for the OP anyway.

[@don__hector7845]

@@seanscanlon9067 thx mate