(Hearthstone) Kibler's Core Set Review - Paladin, Priest, Rogue, and Shaman

[@AGuyNamedBrook]

the reckoning bomb killing Doom Lord Kazzax was a protection paladin in vanilla wow. reckoning had an infinite duration and sitting would cause you to be crit giving you a double attack that would stack up infinite times. So a cheeky paladin /sat and had an udergeared rogue hit him til he had a huge load of stacks then 1 shot a world boss by hitting him a thousand times or so in one swing.

[@Deverik1981]

Great times.

[@PauloCTorres]

For all his MTG fame, you can really tell that Kibler loves HS.

[@dwighttheislander7369]

True

[@StinFriggins]

And he probably makes way more than even when he won the PT

[@calmguru1274]

Man I'm looking back into hearthstone because I heard of the core set and I knew kibler would be talking about it. Gotta say, kibler looks so different nowadays. I remember the clean shaven kibler lol

[@ArmouredBlood]

Vanessa enabling coin -> steal quest is ... interesting lol

[@romilrh]

"Temple Enforcer is staying because in case Zephrys comes back, he needs to be able to offer it" I burst out laughing

[@satoiify]

xD

[@parkerpoquiz7981]

Something that people forget is that some of the main pure cards are being rotated, so pure has no reason to run pure except for the 8 mana ziliax

[@NinjaNateTheMack]

Paladin seems like the biggest winner of the core set change. Priest seems all over the place. Imo priest has been too expansion based since the standard change.

[@lancelee338]

based on what?

[@darklordinateur]

Agreed though I would say Hunter and Rogue are by far the biggest losers of the core set change. Like they've been shafted unless the next expansions give them some broken cards

[@KenWu-pl3or]

I never have an idea why priest is getting all the hate. It’s the only class that’s “interacting” with the game’s mechanic and players( standard game of course) not just like all those meta brainless head busting decks that only focus on protocols.

[@NinjaNateTheMack]

@@KenWu-pl3or Where in there did you see any hate? I infact love priest. My point was priest cards in the base set(s) hasn't felt coherent since the change to standard.

[@KenWu-pl3or]

@@NinjaNateTheMack Yeah I know, just expressing my feelings. Sorry for the misunderstanding

[@alexwilliams6492]

Killer has been wanting this for years now, I bet it feels great for it to come true

[@thetntsheep4075]

I don't know why but Rogue losing fan of knives makes me a nostalgic kind of sad.

[@SageVallant]

It sounds like Kibler missed that Clergy only procs on friendly characters. So you can't do the trick of hit opponent into heal opponent to buff minion. I don't think nearly as well of Clergy as he does either way. It's a minion, it's nice to have, but unless there's some kind of proper Tempo list for Priest I doubt it ever sees play. A 1 mana minion is obviously a good start, but it just accomplishes so little and Priest just can't reliably get into the buff cards without draw. You'd think draw from own deck would be something worth putting in the core set for the year. You can't afford a turn to dig with Thrive in a Tempo list until probably 4 mana so you can get the buff out immediately (in the case of Feast). The one time Priest has assembled a Tempo list it was also a Combo deck with a ton of potential draw through Northshire, Wild Pyro, and Circle. It was a perfect storm of Tempo and Combo. We'll see if those pieces can come together through expansions, but it's going to need a lot more reach than a fat Leper Gnome to get there.

[@mkleung8]

I agree with this. I'm disappointed with the changes with priest personally. The cards they removed might not have been staples but they were certainly more tempo oriented (shadow madness, cabal) than the cards they did get. The problem with Clergy is that early game there is nothing to heal. And if you are against an aggressive deck, you'll get more mileage tempo-ing out a 2 drop, ex chaplain which would give you the +2 health anyways. Priests' biggest gains seem to be every other classes loss of removal, because healing (other than face which makes it a bad armour up) has basically not been a thing in priest for a long time. I feel they should rework healing so it still counted as healing even when there is nothing injured so these kind of effects were not so situational.

[@danielbeshers1689]

I can see what they're trying to do, where the priest is trying to get sticky minions on the board and then buff them bigger and bigger, and how big a payoff the new card that turns healing into health gain plays into that. I agree that as a tempo strategy it may prove much too janky to work consistently. Same old priest: either its synergies don't come together reliably enough to justify its massive lack of proactive plays to make, or it gets enough draw that its Rube Goldberg trebuchet goes off more often than not and you can't help but feel like you got scammed.

[@zyella277]

Priest had a tempo deck outside that, in K&C Spitefull priest.

[@SageVallant]

@@zyella277 That's true. It also had an Undertaker deck back in Naxx. Of course, the issue with both these decks, Spiteful and Undertaker, is another common issue with Priest decks that rely on Neutrals; they're usually not the best version of that Neutral. So yeah, it had a deck, but as I recall there was Spiteful Druid, I think, that performed better. And it's no surprise to see something like that take shape when we're talking about Neutrals, when the base tools of the Priest are generally on the weaker / inflexible side.

[@hjaltebirckahlstrand171]

What’s actually really thoughtful is the one cost cycle that all of the classes now have. Haven’t seen part three yet, but so far has had the outcast draw dude, Druid has the 2 2 beast, hunter has webspinner, mage has babbling book, rogue has the swashburglar, shaman has the 3 2 overload and so on. The symmetry is really good for balanced gameplay, since it’ll give all of the classes an option for early game plays, if they want it.

[@qwejy]

Well the shaman one is a bit more than balanced, I expect it to go down to 2/2.

[@thatweirdguyoverther]

@@qwejy makes it just a strictly worse enchanted raven in that case

[@fabe61]

Phew, we no longer need to worry about betrayal positioning!

[@fishraposo7192]

I always play around it just in case lol

[@ems6706]

Paladin changes were what I was waiting for. Dude Pally looks like a good ladder climbing deck. Plus then engines in pally just naturally leads me to see Pally having a lot of good engines for Midrange value. Exciting times in my favorite class! Shadowform could be really cool if the Shadow damage buffs are solid enough. I hope they do something cool with Shadow priest as a class could be really interesting.

[@Amaling]

Vanessa is the coolest card I've seen in a while, want more HS cards like this. Creates more nuance in games just by existing. I hope she's good enough to be run in every rogue deck

[@aaronwberke]

Are we sure about shadow form? Seems like a huge miss to have a duplicate card have no effect. Also, the HS website shows the upgrade as a related card.

[@davidbronstein2040]

I mean, now it's consistent with Dinomancy, for whatever that counts for.

[@PrincessFelicie]

3 damage shadowform confirmed removed by the devs, the website still showing it is a bug.

[@rafidifrancesco7956]

I dig it. Solid burst damage isn't a priest staple, so it's kinda like there's a trade off for running such a card. Do you risk putting a basically useless card in your deck in order to upgrade your hero power more frequently? Makes building decks and interpreting your playstyle more engaging, imo.

[@zyella277]

its sure and a dev confirmed it on twitter. I find a 100% stupid and uneeded change to remove the 3dmg hero power.

[@Aldrius]

@@rafidifrancesco7956 It's really bad design for a card which is such a significant tempo loss. Especially since priest can randomly generate it.

[@MikaelMarius]

8:52 lol "catch up with justice" with pursuits of justice. You deadpan jester you...

[@Trumpet007]

Love the reference to zappy boi in the core set now

[@alexdessens5439]

What happens with Reckoning if the minion who did the 3 damage dies? Does it proc the secret?

[@phillystevesteak6982]

Not likely. I think it just wont trigger

[@peshomighty5051]

I glad windfury and rockbiter weapon is still in standard. A big minion like fire elemental you can do 18 damage burst.

[@tikussnorlax3544]

Shaman did lose bloodlust, so a lot less”spam and bloodlust” strata.

[@joshnelson1279]

1:48 Unfortunately Lightforged Crusader is gonna be rotating as well, so we won't be able to see those implications in Standard.

[@12Rman21]

I love shaman and although I mourn bloodlust I really like feral spirit being cheaper and the storm buff. the overload deck has actually been kind of sort of maybe good.

[@PrincessFelicie]

Really really hate the way they killed Shadowform. The second upgrade felt very core to the theme of the deck -- there's nothing unique about a 2 damage hero power, but there _is_ about a 2 _then 3_ damage one. Unless they reveal expansion cards that can permanently upgrade your hero power in other ways, I want the old shadowform back.

[@MDoorpsy]

Mage getting Fallen Hero and Coldarra Drake back does imply that hp synergy will be a thing for at least one class during at least one of the sets this year. Guess we'll see.

[@Aldrius]

The 3 damage hero power was not going to be particularly relevant honestly. "Killing it" seems a little dramatic. Especially since it wasn't even in the game all last year and was never actually relevant before.

[@WavemasterAshi]

...Lightforged Crusader gets pretty bad when it's out of Standard also.

[@hammer798]

I wish lightforged crusader would get better, but it rotates when the core set comes in :(

[@PwnedintheFaceStudio]

Earth elemental>feral spirits>fire elemental>Al'Akir is a pretty fun 4 turns on curve now

[@Alucula]

The assassinate buff is nice but it's unfortunate that it's sharing the year with coerce. Maybe it gets played if there's a rogue deck that's awful at using combo?

[@lancelee338]

34:43 idk why but I laughed so hard at this. Poor Menacing Nimbus D: keep your head up buddy

[@andreselizarraras4972]

Honestly clicked to only see Kibler's opinion on rogue but damn is he charismatic 🤣 Ended up watching a lot more than rogue.

[@ToaTawlee]

The reason Psychic Conjurer is still in priest over thoughtsteal is because blizzard wanted a 1 drop for every class that gives a strong idea of that classes identity

[@bmkibler]

There’s the 1/3 that grows when you heal!

[@ToaTawlee]

@@bmkibler good point. RIP thoughtsteal

[@УрошПеровић]

Miracuously enough i think lotraxion and pursuit of justice would be better in a mid range (preferably even control) paladin especially if you're running snack run with a chance of stacking more, and SHR's would become such a hard thing to constantly remove that we could just run removal and control oriented cards instead of applying pressure by aggro, i actually wanna experiment with it a lot! Can't wait for the update to hit.😊

[@lordfinbar]

Priest silence a minion arc type never took off. Sad to see a core card wasted on it with focused will.

[@EebstertheGreat]

Focused Will can target enemy minions. So you can still use it as a nerfed Silence if necessary, now that Silence and Mass Dispel are rotating. It's also just 1 mana: +3 health on minions without persistent effects. It's not a great card, but it's not exclusively useful in Purify-type decks.

[@ppppppqqqppp]

Silence priest was actually pretty good during un'goro iirc

[@EnderPryde]

So... Tidal Surge is buffed in 90% of cases (spell power, moarg enforcer, etc) and nerfed in the 10% edge cases (divine shield, "damage reduced to 1", etc)

[@galkanftw]

I do like the Shaman buffed cards because you NEED to have a good reason to play the cards if your going to scrap your next turn because of O/L.Shaman is like an ODD Shaman because all its good stuff is odd mana and you even turn is screwed because of OL.

[@DylanSmith-qs2pr]

From watching your videos on the new core set it made me realize just how much the game is going to change; classes are getting expanded, revived or refreshed like they all needed to. All of those unused paladin cards 🤣 I hope this ends in a much more diverse meta, which is better for every player.

[@ToxicallyMasculinelol]

wow it's funny, i was just listening to this review while playing my first game back after 2 years hiatus from the game. had just finished the part about vanessa vancleef when, coincidentally, i just found out the hard way how she interacts with potion of polymorph. i made a reno quest rogue deck to use all the new highlander cards that have been printed in my time away, trying to use the new burglary quest, and ran into a highlander warlock playing tickatus and c'thun. and since i had watched some of your videos playing similar warlock decks, i was worried he would play that envoy rustwix on 4, eat 10 of my cards with tickatus, then reno just as i'm gonna kill him with the 3/2 weapons, and proceed to beat me in fatigue. but i found potion of polymorph off my wand thief and thought i was being really clever setting it up for his rustwix so that the very next turn i could copy it and turn the tides with vanessa vancleef. would have been so glorious. well, it turns out if you polymorph his rustwix as it comes into play, vanessa gives you a 1/1 sheep instead of a rustwix. it's weird since he didn't PLAY a 1/1 sheep instead of a rustwix. it seems weird to me in the same way priest's murozond is - it says to "play" all cards your opponent "played" last turn, but iirc, instead of playing anything it just summons stuff your opponent summoned. seems kinda inconsistent with cards like yogg or tess. anyway, potion of polymorph says "AFTER your opponent plays a minion, transform it into a sheep." so you'd think that when it's being played, it counts as a rustwix. and therefore, they "played a rustwix." it was only polymorphed after it came into play, right? coming from magic it doesn't seem right but maybe that's just my perception. anyway, it ended up being so embarrassing, i couldn't hide my shame by never playing it either since it immediately showed my opponent that i copied his sheep lol i still went on to win the game since he apparently didn't draw his reno before i beat him down with the weapon, and probably played his zephrys too early for tempo when he should have saved it for healing. so now i'm... bronze rank 9. wild seems so crazy now, i'm not sure i can tolerate it. too many cards. but doesn't seem like i have enough new cards to play standard again without a lot of investment.

[@charliesterry4604]

Assassinate is now a strictly better Walk the Plank, a card I remember seeing a bunch of play

[@engladtur]

Yeah crimson clergy has me wet I'll just tell it as it is. One of my fav decks I made was a holy champion +heal package, wild pyro etc and it was awesome. Hope I get to experience that again. Now give me some good draw and my body is ready. There's simply something to proactive priest that rocks

[@glitch_wurld]

"You need Temple Enforcer in the core set because if Zephyrus ever returns you need it to be offered by zephyrus" lmao

[@remyllebeau77]

I'm not sure the Overload changes are good enough. I think having unused mana the same turn that you use overload should remove the overload from the next turn based on how much mana you had left.

[@oliviawallace3636]

interesting that shaman gets to keep hex but mage doesn't get to keep polymorph

[@richardclark7990]

i wish 0 mana silence for priest was still around, get me back on my razorleafs

[@thaYESKIMO]

they should have shadowform shuffle spells into the deck too

[@Batrstad]

Vanessas cool but a pale replacement for VanCleef, Edwin could straight Win yeah but Vanessa NEEDS your opponent to be doing dangerous things, then ignores the danger

[@TheStrangeBloke]

Not true. A 2/3 that draws a 1-cost card is totally fine on turn 2. In fact a 2-cost 2/3 that draws a card is good in general. The nutty high end is when your opponent plays a big card, you counter it with your high tempo kit, and then steal their big card to catch up on value. Its cool, and powerful in a way that isn't frustrating to play against (which edwin totally was.)

[@Aldrius]

I mean that's the point... what other class legendary straight up wins a game by turn 4?

[@hahayes2345]

Idk why they kept equality when Libram of Justice? (Idk the name, sets all your opponents minions to 1 health) Librams are a staple in paladin right now, if you’re playing equality, why not play it for potentially 0 mana and equip a 1/4 weapon

[@masterplusmargarita]

So that there's ways for Paladins to get that effect without playing Libram Paladin. Libram Paladin is cool and all, but I'd rather there were other playstyles for the class.

[@hahayes2345]

@@masterplusmargarita yea I just would have liked to see a new card or one from wild. I suppose when new sets are released, there might be a better archetype than librams, but as of right now, can’t see equality beating out libram of justice

[@MNalias]

Zappyboi is coming to HS!

[@galkanftw]

The start of the review just confirms how badly the power curve has become in this game.MOST of these cards were used at one time.NO Kings is still not good enough to play because costs 7.

[@Ironforce92]

I agree, at 6 it could see some play

[@lesiegelad]

I hope dude paladin can make a comeback FINALLY. The Darkmoon Faire gave me high hopes, but it just never happened. I didn't realize Pursuit of Justice doesn't buff the current dudes on board so that makes it a lot weaker. With that being known to me now, Pursuit really seems more like a midrange/ maaaybe a control card weirdly enough. I just don't see dudes being fast enough to win by like turn 6. Pursuit does seem to give Paladin the inevitability wincon though. Hypothetically there are 4 waves of five 3/1s and they all could have divine shield too. That's a lot for any deck to deal with. Of course the dudes seem susceptible to control decks, clowns, or other big minion decks that are way ahead on board. Overall, I am biased and want dudes to be good, but I don't actually think they will be good. At least not in the decks we think they would go in.

[@Aldrius]

There are mid-range token builds of decks. There's also something to just using a dude paladin core as sort of a tempo package, rather than going for a typical zoo strategy. Especially with a 2 mana do nothing card, it seems more like it's intended to be something you get long-term value from over the course of a game rather than a big finisher or w/e.

[@lesiegelad]

@@Aldrius I agree actually! I'm excited to see if a slow dude paladin list takes off. I was looking a bit at the collection today and wondered if you can sort of replicate the cheese paladin deck, but replace the Murloc package with a dude package with clowns. Obviously no Noz soon and it doesn't utilize Alura, but the clown package is powerful. Noz and Alura + tip are why the deck was good so I could be dumb, but it has my gears turning. At least 4 waves of 5 dudes with potentially 3/1 divine shield AND potentially 2-4 waves of clowns could be enough to exhaust anyone. Idk. I'm a meme dreamer to say the least lol.

[@lorentzmuurmans6638]

Should I disenchant all of my cards(that are coming back), because your going to get them back for free with the core set??

[@Bruvmayne]

Petition to bring back conceal for rogues

[@klausgaming7365]

R.I.P. "drawing Backstab from Fan of Knives" meme Also, I bet playing around Vanessa VanCleef in every turn of every Rogue match up will get old pretty quick

[@masterplusmargarita]

I really don't like Pursuit of Justice, feels a little too Kelesethy for me - one of those cards that can make too big of an early impact in the game, and someone's always feeling really bad about it on turn 2 (if drawn, the opponent, if not drawn, the Paladin). Hopefully its power level is lower than it looks, somehow.

[@fabios.3510]

What happened to his magnificent hair?

[@KenWu-pl3or]

Great, priests getting all their best classic and basic cards away and only shitty new cards left to be played. What a dumb idea to “encourage” people to get excited about the new expansion

[@AlfiansyahHendry]

I'm scared of the odd paladins in the future

[@kameronarieta3505]

I saw the paladin cards getting removed and my first thought was “YES! Get rid of them all” I am so excited to get this trash out of my favorite class”

[@reddre453]

Calling Argent Protector a solid card is such an understatement. This card alone will make Paladin tier S class again.

[@tonicsympathy]

Why are the priest cards so bad?

[@danielbeshers1689]

For real though, Thought Steal can get bent forever.

[@KenWu-pl3or]

Lol, never understand why that card get so much hate. For me there are plenty more worse cards worth “banned forever” than this card. #priestforever

[@danielbeshers1689]

@@KenWu-pl3or Because Thought Steal, as a card, punishes you for having good cards in your deck. There are very few things that have a higher rage induced to actual importance ratio, at least for me, than losing a game because I failed to play around Thought Steal into Archivist. It produces some of the most bitter losses the game can provide.

[@KenWu-pl3or]

@@danielbeshers1689 lol then you should be glad that the initial setting for Thoughtsteal was actually ” steal” away two cards in your opponent’s deck. You know people like you always makes me wonder how hypocrite a man can be. The mechanic of the card is basically just giving your opponent two mirror cards, thus it just means “ mirror match “ ingredients were added. But cards like Deathgrip( from LK) , gnomeferatu , and Tickatus literally just erase your cards away, and I don’t see people bitching about it like Thoughtsteal does. This is why the game is dying you know? People are fixed to meta cards mechanic and logics, and when they get beaten by their own “ meta cells” they all explode and complained about how broken Thoughtsteal （or Priest) is, but what they do not know is that the logic behind the whining is just stupid. Your loss is never about the card, it’s just you suck in luck and skills.

[@sallomon2357]

@@KenWu-pl3or People complain about Tickatus all the time, mostly because it removes 5 cards and if you play Y'Sharj you can play it again, removing another 5 cards (which is too late to matter, but hey, people are still complaining), while Gnomeferatu removed 1, 2 if you played two of them and you didn't really have any way to make more copies of them when they were still in Standard. So I disagree with this part. When it comes to Thoughtsteal itself, it only started really seeing play when it was buffed to 2 mana and really only then people started complaining, so you are in the right here. But I'm not sure if people like Daniel are the reason the game isn't in a good state. It's rather the bad dust system, the fact that Hs nowadays is focused on random card generation rather than simply drawing cards or at least creating copies of them and the fact that Blizzard's attitude to economy isn't good (although it's slowly changing, it might take a few years before any serious changes happen). People frequently mention powercreep but I think it's a process which happens anyway and it really isn't a fault of the game (although I have seen what powercreep can do in some other card games).

[@danielbeshers1689]

@@sallomon2357 Thanks for saying. I don't think Thought Steal is a particularly broken card, and I didn't say that. It was pretty irritating to get pigeonholed by someone who knows nothing about me based on my expressing that Thought Steal feels bad to lose to and literally nothing else.

[@BleachIBG]

The rogue set feels very underpowered compared to warrior and warlock's sets. Like its a bunch of miscellaneous tools with no clear endgame that depends on the context of the incoming sets to create one.

[@REALwoombath]

Assassin's Blade gonna be broken. Mark my words.

[@rodlopes4327]

R.I.P. having fun as priest A.K.A. Thoughtsteal. You will be missed.

[@peshomighty5051]

I disagree never surrender is a great secret aswell. Your opponent clears your board, sike plus 2 health. Now with darkmoon statue i deal 12 damage to your face.

[@bmkibler]

That was not a classic set secret.

[@peshomighty5051]

@@bmkibler oh i assumed it was

[@ProfessionalCommentor]

Personally I feel like vanessa won’t see real play in meta decks cause the card is too slow

[@fjelltun92]

Think thats just your personal opinion man, just look at the dragon that in priest that just replays what your opponent played last turn. Some times, opponent only played one card and it would be powerfull enough to play the dragon. With Vanessa you lose the 8/8 body of the dragon, but you get the luxury of deciding when to replay the powerfull card from your opponent.

[@ProfessionalCommentor]

@@fjelltun92 yes thats why I said personally but the thing about murazzond is that he replays everything you opponent cast then and there but with vannessa you have to first play a card to activate a combo only to get 1 card that you may not be able to play that turn.

[@michaelsilberblatt6132]

"Lothraxidon"

[@bigbro404]

The killed my boi Edwin. F

[@ThySirBlue]

🎷🐛 saxy Caterpillar

[@sshim950]

: )

[@unofficial_creep]

i dont like paladin changes.. TOO SMAAAL

[@AzureAiluren]

You can just see the lie in his eyes when he tries to pretend to enthusiasm about the Priest changes.

[@SirTyrin]

wash your mouth out, holy wrath with shinvalah was scary lol

[@galkanftw]

Think abouthow clueless this HS team is.Shaman has to pay 2 to buff weapon by 3 for ONE turn while Rogue get Poison that costs 1 and sticks around lol,not even close to balanced.

[@Pyberspace]

Rockbiter Weapon synergizes with Windfury, which Rogue has no good access to. It works right now in aggro decks with Doomhammer and Inara Stormcrash.

[@30CZEchpoint]

First

[@antyseba5319]

Isn't it like everyone wanted to vanessa join hearthstone, and after all we got THIS Disappoining

[@galkanftw]

Core set looks zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and will be no different than Standard or Wild in that any legendary cards will control the meta ...again.