BMW Make Better Tourers Than Harley Davidson & Indian

[@mark950m6]

Great video with balanced views; I got my BMW R18 Bagger last year after looking at and riding Harley and Indian bikes as well. If you're priority is a V twin engine then it's got to be one of the American brands but if not, then I'd strongly recommend trying R18. The build quality, cost of purchase, cost of ownership is so much better than Harley & Indian and then there's the quality of ride (always a bit subjective) which for me was a clear step ahead of the competition. I'm not particularly bothered by tech on bikes but ended up buying bike that had already been built and had been spec'd with active cruise control. BMW have done a brilliant job on their implementation of ACC and the electric reverse gear is great on those odd occasions when you need it. What I would say is that you probably need at least 2 or 3 test rides and a good couple of hours in the saddle to get a proper feel for R18 as they are big heavy and different, but once you get it, they are very rewarding to ride.

[@tmar0075]

Couldn't agree more.. bought the Transcontinental last yr...have owned both HD n Indian...BMW is special in its own way😊

[@jfro5867]

I’ve owned four HD over the years and enjoyed them but I’ve had my R18 two years now and I love it. Much prefer mid pegs I never got on with forward controls anyway. Build quality is superb in my experience and it’s a lovely thing. Very beautiful. Get compliments all the time.

[@ericport5194]

There’s the Honda goldwing, and everyone else fights for 2nd place

[@duanesmith5074]

I asked Google how many gold wings they sell in the United States in 2023 they sold just over a thousand is all

[@donnyirish190]

Old guys love them.

[@ericport5194]

Dsmith don’t believe that for a second, I’ve been shopping for months every dealer that sells both there’s plenty of BMW’s k1600s to test ride, all the goldwings are sold before they reach the dealerships I just bought a 21 GW riding on my home from Texas to Philly in a dealer in Tennessee traded my 05 in and it’s amazing except for the seat “terrible” I didn’t like how the k1600 felt unstable on the highway at high speeds, but everyone is different

[@duanesmith5074]

@@ericport5194 I asked Google they said right around a thousand was sold

[@ImHarrisB]

I own a pursuit dark horse premium. I picked it up last June and immediately did 9,550 kms on a trip. I tested the R 18 and the 1250 rt and the K1600. The problem with the R 18 is the giant cylinders that prevent me from stretching my legs and/or putting the bike over. Nothing the R 18 compares to my electric preload shock, which is a feature that I’d much rather have than the reverse gear. I have stage one and 2 upgrades and I can promise you that the r 18 tourer will not keep up. The 1250 rt and the K1600 are excellent bikes and I’m sure that many people enjoy them, but I found that they are lacking soul. Oh, and by the way; I put 13,500 kms on my pursuit in 11 weeks and haven’t seen a single problem. Just sayin’

[@my.motorrad]

The R18TC has electronic preload and autoleveling. BMW has had electronic shocks for decades. Same with the adjustable screen. The thing with BMW is that they are focused with all around performance. RT is probably the best 1 up touring bike. All the extra weight of the big cruising tourers does nothing positive.

[@ImHarrisB]

@@my.motorradwell smack my head and consider me educated. I had no idea. Having said that, I still don’t like the R 18 because of the giant cylinders that stick out in front of the rider, forcing one to have mid controls and a seating/leg position that can’t be changed. And yes, I’m aware of the fact that one can stretch one’s legs over the cylinder heads, which is ridiculous. Those cylinders also prevent the r 18 from being fun in the twisties. I mentioned that I thought that the k1600 and the rt are excellent bikes, just not for me. And by the way, if heavyweight cruisers offer. Nothing of interest to the experience, then why has BMW spent so much time and effort designing, building and modifying the r18?

[@my.motorrad]

@@ImHarrisB I agree on the cylinder head issues. I wouldn't buy one. Insofar as why BMW made the R18, IDK. BMW does things that go beyond critical thinking at times, but it's usually about avoiding accountability for weird engineering decisions. My guess is that they thought they'd jump on a bandwagon, albeit late to the game. Many times what is popular isn't the best, but no one went broke underestimating the stupidity of....

[@duanesmith5074]

I'm sorry a Indian Polaris Rider saying a motorcycle with 100 Years of History has no soul is incredible considering that Indian Polaris did not exist 20 years ago

[@ImHarrisB]

@@duanesmith5074you’re confusing brand with models. I didn’t say that BMW has no soul. What I said was that I felt that the k1600 and the rt-neither of which is 100 years old-have no soul. I also said that they were excellent bikes. Pay attention.

[@jayleav]

I rode one 2 years ago. Went into it expecting to love it. Turned out to be the worst motorcycle experience in my life. Those huge cylinders make it impossible to shift and brake. Couldn’t get around that to even consider if I liked anything else.

[@dougnorwood5447]

I'm thinking about an R18 to replace my current HD Heritage Classic.

[@frankfurther3828]

Why not? you can always go back to a HD, plenty of em laying around.

[@huibertdegraaf9622]

I owned a new bmw r 18 b, i had 4 harleys before that and i really liked the bmw. I like the looks of rhe boxer motor and they are bullet proof engines. But its very hard to get aftermarket parts for them and very expensive. The thing i didnt like about it is that you cant take your hands of the bars, the bike will not go straight, it will walk of the pavement in about 6 sec at hwy speed. Below 60 km a hr with your hands off it starts to wobble so bad that it gets dangerous. The adaptive cruise control quits in about half a hr if you dont have any traffic in front of you. I live in canada, so lots of stretches with no vehicle's in front of you. But other then that very good bike. I put 25.000 km on last summer and i traded it off on a new 24 roadglide this your. Love the new harley, rides excellent, way more power then the bmw. Rear suspension is only thing thats not as good as the bmw.

[@wave6413]

Interesting ?? My R18C on CC & no hands on bars is no issue (but it is so long that the front wheel and the back wheel are often not on the same patch of hard top - and that I notice a lot) , I adore this machine. It has soul, it has vibrations that let U know its time to change a gear, it has whirring and noises and its often well over a posted speed limit before I catch it and my self unless I am on CC. BMW could have made it smooth, but I am glad they didnt. I just did the DGR and it attracted soooo many lookers....I love a lot of the HD and their classic style of machines and models (and the Indian equivalents) but BMW have created a classic. I am not unhappy.

[@saddle8bag]

I think they're kinda fun cruisers. Definitely have better brakes than HDs. The ride quality isn't even in the same zip code though when it comes to touring. They're way too vibey. The cylinders also get in the way of my feet. And holy crap are they heavy to get off the kickstand! I don't know what "good tech" is. I prefer no tech. I put in gas and it goes down road. Enough to make me happy.

[@tomwertman8207]

I see R18 first edition for sale often. Priced way below cost when new. Makes we wonder what so many people don’t like. Tonight a friend was out on his new R1250 GS. At 85 miles an hour the drive shaft froze and the rear wheel locked up. Long skid mark to the side of the road. He stayed with it and didn’t go down. Nearest dealer is 272 miles away. Drive shafts are great until they’re not.

[@stuartosborn4785]

I wanted an R18 when they first came out at £18,000 so when i saw a new pre-reg one for £13,000 and they offered me a good price for my 15 year old Harley i snapped it up . They do seem to be marmite but i love it . I had mid footrests on my Harley so the foot position limitation was fine for me . As soon as i bought it and had the first service done i toured Ireland on it and it felt great . Dyed -in-the-wool Harley owners arent going to switch but anybody else who fancy a cruiser should give them a look . As a second-hand buy they are an absolute steal !

[@wave6413]

Yep...I got a great second hand deal. If I had waited a year it would have been daylight robbery....!, But I would have missed a year of owning this working piece of art....

[@stephenhollingsworth9158]

Top notch review mate. I've got a R18 standard and I absolutely love it. I recently had a chance to ride the R18 B and fell in love. So much so that I'll probably be trading my R18 standard in for the R18 B in the near future.

[@TwoGoTouring]

A big question Alf. I rode Harleys for 20 years, loved it but have gone the adventure route. Look at the R18 Classic £19.5k v a Heritage Softail £23.5k. What does Harley offer for an extra 4 grand and the quality of the R18 is really high. Are Harleys now way overpriced ? If you want to ride a heritage motorcycle then an R18 should at least be in the mix for a trial run.

[@Nobbi0815]

Yes, Harley‘s are overpriced. R 18 is so much better built quality than Heritage Classic.

[@bobellis2912]

Great vid. I had a Harley night rod and last year sold my street glide. Taking a break from riding for now but I’m keeping up with sport. Thus far, when the time comes, it looks like the next bike will be a K1600B grand America. It’s like a beautiful woman, I can’t stop starring at it. Price is right and I’m kind of over the zharley air cooled engines. Love the sound but when the weather gets warm, they start running funky. And so hot hot hot. But, all said, I love them all. Nothing like riding.

[@frankfurther3828]

I've had a Boxer twin and the R1800 must be some beast that I would love to test out.

[@mireliomarzo6468]

I have one . Not that quick. Great touring though.

[@markh.harris9271]

The discussion of "better than" this or that really has no merit, honestly. On the other hand, discussing the merits specifically regarding the boxer aircraft engine & shaft drive, well, that has some merit. KTM, Ducati, Triumph, BMW, Honda.... they are all great bikes. None of them will be parked in my garage any time soon, but, yes, they are really good motorcycles. marcus

[@pierregimie1581]

thanks. very good analysis and video.

[@m.f.m.67]

BMW="Bikes Made Weird" or "Bring More Wrenches" or my personal favorite, "Break My Wallet"

[@mareksamel5334]

Once upon a time, there was a comparison test in MCN magazine ( quite known british Motorcycle News magazine - I think ) between BMW R18 Transcontinental and Indian Pursuit. MCN is known for really not taking stuff easilly towards manufacturers and not beeing ´politically´correct if they don´t like something and those people as far as I´m informed or read, really know how to ride a bike and are testing them thorougly in various conditions. You dont like to read that test if you are on the BMW side of the pond...But to everybody its own.

[@my.motorrad]

If I was riding 1 up, I would get the RT or the KGT. If I was riding two up, probably the GW. I like HDs for what they are and Indian tends to do better function wise, but where I live the process of buying one is every bad thing you've ever heard about dealer experiences in terms of fleecing and F&I process. You're not getting out of the dealer in less than 2-3 hours if you buy one and you'll pay thousands over MSRP. I just don't believe enough to put myself through that process, especially for the price at the end.

[@Dirk1961-l7y]

I once sat on it....couldn't get the BMW tourer off the jiffy stand!!! it felt like it was glued to the ground....Super heavy!!! I ride Road King Special....so I'm used to some things!

[@ronaldthomas9396]

People take them of the jiffy stand and put them on the side stand before mounting! Side stand is for parking and jiffy stand is for work and inspection!

[@dhc8guru]

This is BMW’s first shot at a classic tourer and for them to hit it nearly as good as HD and beating Indian is pretty impressive. I bought an R18 Roctane over a Road King. The deciding line was how much I was going to have to pay to add on ABS and heated grips. Looking at close to $28k usd base price. The only gripe I have with BMW is the prices on accessories. $800 for a backrest. Come on!

[@LouisStreet]

Second attempt. The first was the failed R1200C.

[@martinsmith9054]

The R18 doesn't really appeal as I like smaller bikes. The new BMW 1200 looks good, as does the Indian Scout 101. If I was going to buy a bigger bike, the Indian Challenger engine in a stripped down bobber type frame would be good.

[@duanesmith5074]

The GSA is the world's best touring motorcycle. It can go absolutely anywhere carry more than any of the motorcycles you're talking about is not scared of any terrain and has more horsepower torque in handling ability than any American Motorcycle available. I looked at brand new ones yesterday for 27,000 dollars with everything on them

[@timblackburne77]

I couldn't wait to see the R18 when it came out. But as soon as I sat on it I knew it was useless. Those cylinders are right in front of your feet and so close to your boots, plus the heat coming off them will roast your legs in every month in Australia bar a few. So you have no options with foot placement at all, no good for long rides. Period.

[@wave6413]

Pity.....I am in NQ and the heat off the cylinders in summer was noticible but no worse than my KTM or my Honda 1100 with radiator fan blast. The floorboards give good foot relocation placement and if U hang your boot heels off the front of the boards its actually more forward than it looks (or as much as I want) and feels fine. A plus is I can stand and get my ass out of the saddle when I hit the amazingly good Queensland road quality. My nuts appreciate no rearward cylinder.......

[@timblackburne77]

@wave6413 I'm in Brisbane, yes our roads in QLD are awesome hahaha

[@wave6413]

@@timblackburne77 - Amen - my road riding brother..... if the A1 road don't get you, some Xx chromosome turd in a cage on a phone will scare the *rap out of U or the QLD fuzzz will fine U for roadcraft and positional safety that might require "moving forward" in the traffic sequence. PS (or is that PDS) wish me luck for court next week to fight just that issue....

[@johnnydangerously7186]

Click bait! The Indian Pursuit is the gold standard in American Style touring bikes. Goldwing 2nd, then you can argue over the rest.

[@Rick-Williams59]

It's a matter of opinion, and my opinion is BMW will never be a better touring bike than a Harley. The newer Indians on the other hand sucks. It's not what you ride that matters anyway, it's what makes you happy.

[@cristi8183]

Exactly! Respect what makes each one happy.

[@wave6413]

It's what makes U happy.........Yep....I agree.

[@MarcusTurner-b6e]

Nice video keep up the good work

[@bobbralee1019]

I've got a R1250R with full luggage and this is my third BMW in a row, great bikes and they do look after their customers. The R1250R is a great all rounder which I really think no American bike could compete with it as a total package to do everything.

[@johnmartin7158]

The Harley’s look nicer though.

[@bobbralee1019]

@@johnmartin7158 Looks are subjective, for me the fundamentals of riding such as handling performance and braking trump looks but I'm not a poser. 😇

[@timblackburne77]

How much is the major service?

[@flatcapcaferacer]

I thought the piece was on the R1800 not a R1250R completely different bike.

[@themindsmotor8539]

I free with your opinion 🎉🎉🎉

[@bikerbri2003]

I've got an r18 bagger and a classic love them but not perfect, classic needs a fuel gauge and tubeless tyre's both suffer from buffeting over 60mph

[@cg1288]

I used to have the Classic, but sold it because of those same things. I thought I could live with it, but I was wrong. Tubed tires, no fuel-gauge, and an under 5 gallon tank. I really like the looks of the new Roctane, but BMW apparently doesn't listen to customer feedback. They put tubeless rims on it, but kept the same fuel tank size/no fuel-gauge setup. I don't understand it.

[@wave6413]

I have the R18C. I put a diffuser on the screen for $15 - Problem solved....

[@kevinoconnor2921]

BMW's are great motorcycles. Every bit expensive to maintain as a Harley Davidson, but they are NOT as comfortable to ride as a 1000lb. HD Touring motorcycle, + all of the bologney an owner has to go through to turn the limiter off. However, BMW is credited with producing the BEST new feature on a motorcycle...anti-lock brakes!

[@Robert-xs2mv]

I prefer the k1600 gtl. Much more gutsy than the goldwing.

[@scootjockey]

So far so good with my shift to bmw.

[@hughmac7423]

BMW, do you really want to be classified as a BMW rider? Also, the service costs are ridiculous. The R18 looks cool, but is it better than the HD and Indian tourers? I don't think so. I have had a 1988 HD Lowrider 1340cc Sport for 35 years, I toured on it for 3 decades, is it a tourer? Not really but it can tour. I brought a Pan Am Special in 2024, the 2022 Army Green version, and it is a fantastic sports tourer, and I ride it everyday with no problems. I think any bike can be a tourer if you want it too and prepare properly.

[@donnyirish190]

I love this topic simply because people are inherently tribal. Harley guys will say HD is the best and everything else sucks. Honda guys, BMW guys. all do the same thing. There are people who are far and few in-between who can appreciate the qualities of a fine made motorcycle no matter what the brand badge says, these are the true bikers. Not blindly loyal to one brand but interested in what different brands have to offer. I have owned different model HD's my entire life, are the the best built motorcycle out there? Hell no, HD has never put out a model that didn't have some kind of flaw from oil leaks to sumping to the death wobble and the list goes on and on. So why do I continue to buy HD's? Because nothing else feels or sounds like a HD and I enjoy the riding experience. It's like driving an old hot rod, rough, loud, full of feel and vibration and its hooligan feel going down the road. That being said I also appreciate the refinement, smoothness and well manners of a BMW or Honda. This is why a keep a few different bikes in the garage, for different experiences, all are good at what they do and they do it in different ways and that's the beauty of the sport. If you only lock yourself into one brand you are really cheating yourself and missing out on some really incredible motorcycles.

[@bigjohnson9561]

One thing is for sure Harley Davidson has a better network of support. BMW network of support is nowhere near HD.

[@flatcapcaferacer]

What is the punch line on the R18( any version being a better touring bike than any other brand? It is better than BMWs than their 1997 R1200C failure. They are discounting them in the U.S. and expect the resale value even in Europe is way off any of it's competitors. One of the UK KZbinrs Nathanthnpostman brought a group to the U.S. recently and were on a few R18s and they did like them at all. Unbelievable.

[@jfro5867]

There’s plenty of very happy R18 owners on the forum, they have sold all over the world and yes that includes the US. We all like different things, I watched that Nathanthepostman trip and they came across as a right bunch of whiney old farts to me. Harley has been bailed out numerous times from going bust and everyone knows they rip owners off on finance and extras blah blah blah. The US market is rigged towards HD so of course it’s hard for another brand to get traction.

[@LouisStreet]

Except that you cannot obtain a service manual for the BMW.

[@redlinered]

We can argue about looks but at the end of day the R 18 vibration is so sophisticated no one wants to ride it. ☮️

[@wave6413]

Or just change gears.....?!!

[@redlinered]

@@wave6413 Oh yeah sure that will fix it.

[@oldsparky14]

I own a Road king special , if I wanted the best bike, I would of bought a Goldwing ... but Goldwings and BMW don't have that HD cool factor.

[@Bikerbug2020]

The BMW is okay if you are a short guy, if you are over 6 feet tall forget it, those jugs are just too big…

[@Boxer1250RT]

If an average rider cannot get the bike off the Stand and stretch his legs as comfy as HD RG and SG, as I said it many times in the past, the R18 has nothing on Harley. Sadly, it is a beautiful bike with a terrible execution. It is not even ridable in my opinion. The proof is the terrible sales numbers and even more terrible resale value. If BMW could shave 200 pounds from the weight and move the Cylinder heads forward so more legroom is created, maybe. Also, it is a very top heavy bike. Transcontinental is even worse.

[@wave6413]

Top Heavy......yes compared to a Honda rebel 1100, less than my Honda Cbx 500 and about the same as a HD S1200

[@LooxJJ]

I checked out BMW, it is it about 20% cheaper than Harley (I live in Cali - and the price here at Burbank BMW vs Glendale Harley comparison). There are 2021 and 22 models NEW still sitting at the dealers. It depreciates really really fast as well - low mileage R18 going at low $10k or even under that. Problem is…it does not stand out on any front. Its a good bike…but Honda makes way more reliable bike. Performance? Ducati and Suzuki make better performance as a cruiser (Diavel and Boss). Looks? Kinda subjective, but Moto Guzzi made better looking Euro Bagger. Cruiser ergo? Harley and Indian matches or surpasses it. Lastly, as a cruiser bike, it simply lacks the panache…on that I have to give full top marks for Harley.

[@petergrundy8081]

That's a bold statement

[@fifthgearfoodie5272]

I've never, ever, ever been into that boxer, World War II propeller plane engine design. What's worse is that sewing machine travel case-designed housing for the crankshaft. that thing is even more repulsive than that boxer design. A complete turn-off aesthetically and completely impractical as a long distance ride. Because of the boxer design the rider is forced to keep his or her feet in one fixed position. That design makes the bike unwieldly in slow maneuvers and certainly at a stand still. I'm not a Harley fan but definitely an Indian fan. The Indian Roadmaster with a 116 V-Twin is a monster. The bike is beautiful at every angle, comfortable, and provides a solid ride. I chose out of all a Victory Vision. The Vision is just as fast, more nimble and reliable, and can lean deeper than all of the above. I call it a 2-wheeled Cadillac because the ride is smooth as butter, the power is effortless, and it purrs like an old Caddy on the interstate.

[@dennisberg570]

Price a valve adjustment on a six cylinder BMW , not a valve check , a valve adjustment . 2000 dollars !!!!

[@jamesschneider3828]

The article is about a boxer trim BMW not a K1600.

[@Robert-xs2mv]

Sounds like you been ripped off big time.

[@Ride_on54]

Says who BMW 🙄 no doubt

[@jamesschneider3828]

So you just write off Honda Gold Wing. Do your research. Maybe you don't like them but they are the best with the least amount of issues with durability and ride comfort.

[@WiliamRae]

You’re dreaming look at resale value hardly Davidson has the name bmw yes I like the look but come on man if you bought that and some had a custom Harley Davidson people will pick the Harley all day

[@jimbranscomb4350]

Everyone makes better touring bikes than Harley, that's nothing new, Indian messed up with their stuff. But nobody beats the goldwing

[@rogermurph101]

Nope. The BMW is a very attractive bike and I’m sure it’s a fine motorcycle mechanically. But the opposed cylinder engine is a deal breaker. I hate mid controls anyway, so those giant jugs being right where my feet should be is a deal breaker. Wouldn’t mind renting one for a weekend, but I’d never buy one.

[@rogergleidt1567]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

[@alanmartin256]

Maybe trus, it's down to opinion and my opinion is OMG how ugly is the BMW!!!!!!!

[@wave6413]

nope.... your opinion is well...........only your opinion...... All the BMW designers and end users like me would disagree. The hundred lookers of my Berlin built classic might also think differently ....Those at the last DGR might also disagree.. .. .. just sayin...