BMW S58 vs B58 head to head battle!

The horsepower battle between these two titans from BMW has been fun to see unfold online but which one reigns supreme on the flow bench?! Watch as Dave flow tests two different generations of the B58 vs S58 in a head to head battle!
headgamesmotor...

[@kylecurry6841]

Seeing these differences, and more over the combustion chamber characteristics between the B58 vs S58, it reminds me of the differences both in chamber design and benchmarks in In/Ex port flow differences between the Honda B-Series PR3 (B16/Si & or B18C5/Type-R) vs P72 (B18C1/GSR) cylinder heads.

[@headgames]

I can agree with that!

[@CJ5EVOLUTION]

Don't remember if you have head to head battle on Gen 1, 2 and Evos 4 onwards 4G63s and the Evo X

[@headgames]

I haven’t done that yet but good idea

[@goyocarreras]

Thank you very much Dave for your time, it is nice to see the comparison of the cylinder heads and see the differences and results. Best regards Goyo

[@headgames]

GOYO!!!! thanks bud!

[@highpsiguy4085]

I love these videos. What makes them even better is your explanation of the science behind the numbers. I'd love to see a 6 bolt 4g63 head vs 7 bolt 4g63 head comparison. 6 bolt heads have larger port volume as you know. It's "claimed" that 7 bolt heads have a higher port velocity. I'm sure you know more about the topic than I do. I would be interested in seeing someone like yourself compare the two...

[@headgames]

It’s gonna happen! Just got me a 7 bolt head just need a gen 1

[@ZandKProduction]

​@@headgamesthen compare those to a 4b11t head just to show part of why the 4b11t is a better engine lol

[@headgames]

@@ZandKProduction I’m thinking K20 vs 4B11

[@mrphiscal]

This video was very informative (Where is my Subaru comparison?)

[@headgames]

It’s coming up I promise! We have videos scheduled out 10 weeks currently so it might be a little longer than expected lol

[@Bted__ever]

Thanks Dave, I appreciate these videos. Can’t wait to see the subie stuff. Worth the wait.

[@juliedavid4028]

Dave, have you ever worked on a 2URGSE head? I have an IS500 and want to keep it NA and extract as much power as I can

[@headgames]

I’ve never even heard of that engine code. Or that car. Lol

[@sigmaprojects]

@@headgames It's a gem of an engine. Think Toyota's version of Ford's Coyote motor, except it runs duel injection, port and direct injection based on RPM/loads. Also forgot to mention, it's also one of the engines that Toyota had Yamaha do the head flow designs.

[@dreday77764]

I have that engine in my ISF. Absolute bulletproof engine

[@headgames]

@@sigmaprojects but I’ve never heard of it making power. Or the car. Great design but the mod ability isn’t there.

[@sigmaprojects]

@@headgames Yea in the US they're not a whole ton of people modifying them. Most just S/C them. But you can find the engine in the IS-F, GS-F, LC500, new IS500, LS. In the US it's only Lexus models. Stock they ranged from 415hp (first gen IS-F) up to 475hp (LC500). I'm sure you're a bit familiar with the truck versions like the 3UR. They only have port injection, but they're 5.7L. They were available with a dealer option to stick a roots super charger on it covered by a warranty. The older gen of Toyota V8s like the 1UZ and 3UZ are the ones people are really modifying because they're cheap and can be found in wreckers. The 3UZ is a pretty decent motor, some teams are using them for high HP in drifting kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIXccomuo52XpLcsi=hBlJapKTVYt7X0nv I got to check out Apexi's build which was pushing over 900hp and that was about 10~12 years ago.

[@TheFanatic340]

as someone who owns and builds both, I love seeing these differences

[@georgedreisch2662]

Is it me, or do all of the look like there’s decent gains to be had with some blending, especially on the intake departures into the chamber? Thanks for sharing…

[@headgames]

Big gains are there!

[@TheOverpowered1]

S58 👑👑

[@TomWrigley-e5b]

Another great video Dave 👍👍👍

[@under_ground_]

great video, please do more of these❤

[@paulkline1522]

I used to run an SF-600 for Dan Paramore, great video

[@headgames]

The legend of Dan!

[@headgames]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@madrx2]

I'd like to see the difference between the first series x3m s58 and the lci /g80 head which is supposed to be revised? Unless that was just bmw marketing

[@headgames]

Here you go! It was revised, but it had to do with the cam caps failing. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6TFaHiqfNulhtUfeature=shared

[@madrx2]

@@headgames omg you're the best :)

[@genderlessyoutubefanperson]

What is wrong with S58 on the exhaust side? Why is it so restrictive?

[@tommartin221]

Thank you for the video!!

[@snow41man]

@headgames - I called about an N53 head port. Have you ever seen one in the shop before?

[@headgames]

Never heard of it or seen one!

[@Mp-jw1qg]

@@headgames its the UK version of the n54. naturally aspirated, magnesium block, etc . the head is an n54 head with opened up ports, larger valves etc. the velocity of the air and the way the ports are shaped is different. it has a torque curve of a s54. very linear and will keep going as high as you rev it. i made 724whp on the n54 head with big cams and valvetrain. put that same valvetrain and cams in ported n53 head and made 885whp up to 9k rpm on the same tuning. you can get n53 heads for 200 bucks in the uk online and its simple to weld the water jackets on the head closed and drill to match the n54 passages,, open the stud holes 1mm , deck it and its an n54 factory fitting race head. ppl have made 450+whp on hopped up n53's. the head is shaped for the 12:1 comp that the n53 runs! its magic on e85 and boost. - i have a video of a cnc ported n53 head on on my youtube here.

[@XVENDETTA100]

Between k20c1 and s58, which one you prefer for durability ? (If both maintained properly), and what is both common fatal problem ?

[@headgames]

@@XVENDETTA100 that’s a loaded question. If it’s a race car, awd Honda with a turbo k would be fabulous. But the c1 is not the guy. It’s super limited on power potential. Street car, hard to beat what a BMW has to offer in terms of quality ride, easily modded, big brakes, great suspension, and can stick the whole family in it. Weak points depends on power.

[@XVENDETTA100]

@@headgames i am comparing between 2025 fl5 and 2025 m4 cs actually And off course it is different beast in terms of HP and torque....but i wonder if which one stay longer in piece

[@LichaelMewis]

What does the superior intake performance on the S58 mean in terms of max raw HP increases over the B58?

[@registrationaccount1034]

S58 is the GOAT. Period.

[@tonyvic4965]

Thx. Great video!!

[@headgames]

You are very welcome!

[@mrcars0095]

Great video,thanks

[@headgames]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@mike08282]

Good video, love all the content.

[@headgames]

Thanks!

[@AJv-kb2pc]

Have you noticed any b58 or s58 heads getting weaker with porting? A lot of high boost rb guys are running no porting(stock head port) because of cutting into the coolant chamber or stress cracks from thinner port walls

[@headgames]

That’s because there’s some people who make the rb26 gigantic. We don’t do that to any head.

[@Bert_on]

s58 vs 2jz?

[@hexagonosaurus5848]

Braindead.

[@eldismemushi]

B58>S58>2JZ

[@mp5778]

Excellent video. Great testing and comparison. Next up how about a N52 head? Please!!

[@headgames]

I highly doubt that you would see an n52 on here. Not a head we ever see.

[@AJv-kb2pc]

@@headgames N52 head on a n54? I'm seeing more people doing this because more flow using the na head on a turbo block

[@snow41man]

@@AJv-kb2pca N53 head is the common swap not N52 as the N53 head uses the same Injectors.

[@konradnee844]

Hey Dave have you ever done a Mercedes M104? I think its the better 2JZ.

[@headgames]

No, we set the 1/4 mile record with the m117 I think it is, the v8. But, highly doubt that we have any Benz engine better than the 2jz

[@konradnee844]

@@headgames thanks for your answer! I am no expert, just wondered because the 3.2L NA version makes 231hp. Intakevalves are 35mm and exhaust 31. So i guessed the head flows ok.

[@chrisbradley3224]

Have you ever looked at a BMW S54 head?

[@headgames]

@@chrisbradley3224 yeah there’s probably 6 at the shop right now.

[@chrisbradley3224]

@@headgames How does it compare? Obviously NA design though. Seems to make a lot of power with very little boost.

[@DCF19-n9x]

If B58 comes ported from the factory, it will flow more given the exhaust side already has with untouched ports.

[@GTRliffe]

you don't get this hardware very often-making the videos more detailed would be nice. maybe more info like checking the cast density as an addition etc

[@headgames]

maybe one day

[@BraapSupport]

First one! 🎉 Guys! make the 10k full

[@DCF19-n9x]

Is it me or these heads just suck. They all do. Even ported, they barley flow above 200 cfm. These heads will never crack 300cfm.

[@weduhpeople8504]

Unlike the fk8 head. Once the air and fuel tumbling bottle neck is removed it flows 300cfm. Honda engineering has been producing high flow heads and it shows how much Red Bull Honda is winning in F1 beating the big players, Mercedes and Ferrari 🏁🏎️💨💨💨

[@hexagonosaurus5848]

​@@weduhpeople8504 show me a 9 second OTS tune honda 😂 So cringe

[@joe_ferreira]

​@@hexagonosaurus5848 saying so cringe is cringe.

[@GroovesAndLands]

What am I missing? Aren't these numbers kinda pathetic?

[@headgames]

Totally not the best. Welcome to DI heads. They don't flow very well, but make stupid power.

[@helloitsanthony]

You don’t need to flow a high CFM on the head when you’re forcing air into the combustion chamber. Forced induction 👍🏽

[@GroovesAndLands]

@@helloitsanthony Yes that's true - which is how I ever made any power at all from my terrible Ford 2.3L Lima turbo... But when I put the Esslinger cylinder head on it, which literally flowed 2X more than the stock, ported head - I made 1.5X more power at 0.75X the boost pressure. Less boost pressure means higher air density - always a winner.

[@AJv-kb2pc]

I hope bmw makes the M2 AWD and quit teasing us about it

[@LivingLifeFastLLF]

Will just be same weight as g80

[@headgames]

Yeah the M2 are only 50lbs lighter. Awd might make it heavier.

[@nofront711]

But it drives completely different due to the shorter wheelbase.

[@92rednotch]

AWD is corny AF!! That's what everyone seems to be reliant on recently. AWD's got everyone thinking they're racers now. Learn how to drive and stop relying on AWD to get you off the line and keep you straight going down the track/rd.

[@headgames]

@@92rednotch you obviously haven’t seen these things when they make power and spin all 4 tires from a 60 roll. It just looks easy.

[@thetechniqueviking1053]

Wow. That’s a great deal less then I would guess.

[@cameroncardoza]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@JaapGrootveld]

Here some pocon....

[@jonathanwinston9958]

Wtf am I watching

[@MegaMoose313]

Engine "Breathability" test