BMW B58 and S58 cylinder head cores differences! !

[@highpsiguy4085]

Id love to see a 4g63 comparison. More specifically a flow comparison between 1g and 2g heads. The idea is the 2g head has higher port velocity, while the 1g has higher flow due to much larger ports. Id love your expert coverage on the topic

[@skylinefever]

Now that the 25 year rule is being crossed, I think of the Evos that are being imported and which variants are best.

[@Ippothegreat]

I love that he stopped himself and was like I’m not versed enough to speak on the pcv I need to do more research.

[@headgames]

I think it’s better to say I don’t know then look like a dummy

[@Mp-jw1qg]

3:33 the reason why the b58 is small bore big stroke is because the crankshaft and block are directly borrowed from the new at the time b57 diesel, wich had years of development poured into it prior to 2015. they revamped the cylinder head, bored it out, and destroked it to get it closer to square for the s58. stuck S63B44T4 connecting rods and a n20 piston. they 3d printed the molds for the casting on the head, obviously you know the differences in the cylinder heads etc etc. people are stroking these s58s when they should be revving them to 10k instead. its a shame they dont understand the rod angle and the geometry. bmw gave us a 10k rpm out of the box engine, it just needs valve springs. on a side note, i cant wait to get my quote for this b58 head were sticking on this secret block. you said 60+ psi is bad news in the email, so 59.5 psi it is. haha

[@hazardpilottt1457]

How is possible that high revving?

[@bossdon8199]

This guy is a legend for this video!

[@xvelez3]

B58 gen 1 and gen 2 either 2 port or 6 port is gen 2. Gen 3 is now rolling out on x5 and 7 series. (Which are the ones that most likely use the gen2 2 port)

[@payamh9118]

My 2019 X5 B58 Gen 2 is a 2 port turbo/head. I believe it's like that for all X models.

[@headgames]

I don't think for the X3 M40i is the same. I ran vin numbers from Autotrader by my friend who works in the parts department at the local dealer. Maybe I am wrong! I didn't do X5's though.

[@payamh9118]

@@headgames If you put the vin in real OEM it will show you the engine number. B58C is the two port models.

[@JaredFloyd]

Nice review. I don't think the S58 cylinder head is 3D printed as stated. The head is cast and uses 3D printed cores (used to create the hollow spaces in the casting) for the intake ports.

[@newagetemplar6100]

That’s exactly what I was led to believe too , just the cores were 3D printed due to their complexity . I was quite disappointed with the finish on all the ports especially the S58 , rough cast and not machined. Ok their turbo so technically it shouldn’t matter. S50 S54 are cnc ported and lovely

[@joshuaquilliam2887]

Also direct injected so it's not as critical. No fuel to swirl and mix pre combustion chamber.@@newagetemplar6100

[@ICTPerformance268]

🇦🇬 Excellent work as usual. Looking forward to flowbench tests.⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️. 🙇🏾‍♂️

[@Eddy-09]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the gen 2 B58 only came in a 2 port version for the 2020 Supra specifically, while the 21+ Supra and all other BMWs such as 2020 M340i and M240i all have the 6 port gen 2. The gen 3 B58 is not currently out yet, but will be coming in the newer models.

[@headgames]

I think that the generations is objective since BMW didn't call them such a thing, just changed a code.

[@alexudolkin2146]

It would be great to understand what changed in the N25 heads from the 2018+ STI vs the older W25 heads (2008-17). Thanks!

[@CJ5EVOLUTION]

Hi Dave, do you happen to have a 4G63 2G land a 4G63 from a Evo, so you can go thru and show us what was changed beside the intake orientation, if they made some improvements on casting, lube channels and others.?

[@headgames]

I do! And I think that’s a good idea. Gen 1 through the evo x is what i would do. Or at least the evo 9

[@highpsiguy4085]

​@@headgamesI'd love to see more 4g63 tech myself. That's a very poorly discussed topic in the 4g world. No one talks about flow or features. The general idea being the bigger the cam you throw at the car the better. And I know from experience that's not true

[@headgames]

@@highpsiguy4085 we are a 8 weeks out on content so you should see it soon enough

[@SupraSav]

Such an important video. Thanks!

[@headgames]

You’re welcome!

[@jemery3]

Do all the viper generations

[@headgames]

we only do the gen 4/5. Which are the same.

[@ZverRP]

Thanks a lot! What about materials of heads?

[@headgames]

aluminum

[@snow41man]

Great video

[@headgames]

thanks!

[@zazxazza]

2-Port/Integrated is used on some BMWs for emissions in Europe

[@R00567]

Dave can you elaborate on why the integrated / consolidated exhaust port is junk? I know Honda did that on some of the later k24 cylinder heads

[@headgames]

limits you on power potential and I have seen many of them crack when the dealer brings us heads from stock cars. They don't flow very well either. It's a disaster. Probably why BMW let Toyota have it for the Supra but didn't use it on anything but an SUV.

[@laurean5998]

It is great for fast warmup, emissions, packaging and probably bottom end as well though. Just not for top end power

[@merz7226]

I would like to know where to get those posters you have on the wall.

[@headgames]

those are pics I took at WCF. If it wasn't so expensive to ship them we would sell them.

[@turbodudehere]

What are the int. and ex. port opening dimensions on the S58? Thank you!

[@headgames]

I hope to remember to take some measurements

[@tonyvic4965]

Hey Dave, With the new camshafts for the s58 coming out, what is the highest rpm you can go on the s58 with head work being done? Can you go to 8.5k safely? Or the vanos system limits going past stock rpm levels? By the way, great content 👍

[@headgames]

depends more on the valve spring and the duration of the cam how much RPM you can get out of it. The spring we use is good for 12k. The cams should stop making power around 8500rpm

[@Mp-jw1qg]

GSC told me that if the dme would support it the s58 would spin to 11k rpm with their springs. 9k rpm ALL DAY LONG would be fine.

[@all4bspinnin311]

Would you be willing to add N54 to that comparison?

[@headgames]

this comparison is done. Maybe N54 vs something else. Or by itself. We will be doing one for CNC buildup in 4-5 months.

[@all4bspinnin311]

@@headgames Thanks for the reply. I'd honestly like to hear your opinion of the head as a whole and flow potential vs the other BMW B/S series offerings. Lots of factors involved but from what I've gathered in testing, they stop making power after about 750-800.

[@headgames]

@@all4bspinnin311 I think that is more of a valve spring issue then a flow problem.

[@pawelludew291]

Can we fit s58 head to b58 or is is better to ise gen 3 b58 head in supra for example 2 port? Gen 3 b53 382 hp 6 posrt might be the best b58?

[@headgames]

I don’t know about swaps from s58 to b58. I do know that you can do 6 port swap on the 2 port short block.

[@rolandotillit2867]

Intake valves get quite hot. They're just actively cooled by air and fuel.

[@mkf8628]

B58 & S58 have the same bore pitch / bore spacing?

[@headgames]

Bore pitch?

[@mkf8628]

@headgames yes, same with bore spacing. Bore spacing - cylinder bore = cylinder wall thickness. 2JZ has 92mm bore pitch / bore spacing, RB26 has 96mm bore pitch / bore spacing. I just researched it, every BMW inline 6 from M50 upto B58 has 91mm bore spacing. Thank you for your attention 🙏

[@headgames]

@@mkf8628 I’ve just never heard it called a pitch. A pitch is an angle. Yeah BMW has kept it consistent for spacing.

[@faultless18]

Which one can hit 200k miles without any issues?

[@headgames]

either one

[@campbeln]

What’s the eccentric shaft for?

[@newagetemplar6100]

Variable valve geometry, works of an actuator / stepper motor mounted in the head .

[@chrisginoc]

I'm confused. I have a 2023 A91 MKV Supra 6MT. Do I have the B58 you reference that is no good?

[@headgames]

No you have the gen 3 that is good

[@GTRliffe]

they are 3d printed cast moulds-not 3d printed heads

[@headgames]

ahhh. Wikipedia told me wrong info But, the exhaust looks 3D printed

[@fabini14]

S58 is not 3d printed, that will have insane cost to print head that will sell 1000s

[@headgames]

it looks like it is and wikipedia and BMW said so. Maybe just the port parts. The whole head doesn't look like it.

[@philipparana9225]

​@@headgames Looks like the runners Are bit the whole head

[@jd7896]

The core is 3d printed, then machined. The cylinder head you see in the video isn't what it looks like immediately after being printed, lol.

[@mariusfridlund55]

flow em

[@headgames]

We did! Vid dropped today!

[@newagetemplar6100]

I’d like to see an s58 / B58 converted to N/A . S58 should be fairly easy as they run quite high compression as standard. Even better with some high comp pistons and a set of race cams and throttle bodies . 😇 Going off prices of old tired S50 / S54’s to get 380 -400bhp is still relatively expensive once you factor in rods pistons and cams etc . These new generation engines would be virtually bulletproof N/A with standard crank rods and all alloy head and block etc . Only downside is the weight of the head and ugly plastic cam cover . Dry sump and vertical mounted not slanted would be a nice option too . Best start tooling up for cam caps for the aftermarket, you just know these engines are going to get over revved 🙄

[@headgames]

I would never get behind making less power and do more work lol

[@newagetemplar6100]

@@headgames 😂. Know what you mean but let’s be honest N/A sounds a hell of a lot nicer than a turbo . Name any forced induction engine that sounds as nice as a DFV , BDG , s50 s54 with a carbon air box , Ferrari or lambo .

[@headgames]

@@newagetemplar6100 I can’t relate lol I LOVE the way any of those engines sound boosted. A lambo especially. There is no better song than a twin turbo lambo.

[@joshuaquilliam2887]

You must be a purist lol. Nobody removes a turbo to go NA. Plus the B58 and S58 sound mean already.@@newagetemplar6100

[@newagetemplar6100]

@@joshuaquilliam2887 yeah kind of a purist, grew up in the era of NA . They both have their place in automotive history. We have an e36 m3 race car and that sounds so much nicer than a turbo ( in my mind 😇) . Also building a S58 powered race car too so technically not bias 😂😃.

[@rickyfulks889]

BMW my ass

[@headgames]

that's a sweet ass!

[@rickyfulks889]

@@headgames hahaha