Board Game Business Podcast - Top 10 New Designer Mistakes

[@MultiZelda13]

"Nobody wants to play that game about ant farms" are you kidding??? That's an incredible premise for a game!! There's so much potential there.

[@Redskies453]

You could fire ants burning down grass to open up the playing area, flying ants can farm resource islands inaccessible to the other ants, you can play full communist style and just breed hordes of worker ants. Fuggit. Im making an ant game.

[@cerridwendragonart8167]

@@Redskies453 Sieze the Means of Ant Reproduction comrade

[@Noadvantage246]

@@Redskies453 lol how's that ant game coming?

[@randomgunguy5821]

@@Redskies453 yeah how's it coming along

[@Redskies453]

@@randomgunguy5821 haha it's not. There are apparently a number of ant games that are quite well executed out there if you're interested.

[@commandercorner5575]

Some incredibly successful and amazing games would never have been made if they followed this list.

[@ShuffleUpandDeal32]

lol

[@gizel4376]

"And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules"

[@Ruperdepuup]

Making a complex game is not a mistake. It's a choice. These guys want to reach the mass market, but some designers make different choices.

[@aquarius5719]

Rebellion is complex. Battletech is complex. Both are excellent. A time of war is an excessively crunchy RPG that even DnD players deem as too crunchy. Mechanics get in the way of fun.

[@danielskrivan6921]

Some of these are not whether or not you're making a good game, but a marketable one. A complex game that takes 2-3 hours isn't bad, it's just not going to make you a ton of money.

[@chuckolator1859]

They did say it was from a publisher's point of view. The one who is responsible for handling the game's distribution and sales.

[@Berndr]

strange I am so bored of games that have no depth and complexity ... yet these simple games just as you say seem to be the most popular!

[@vegastar558]

"Nobody wants to play a game about ants" - nobody cares a bout birds either, and yet Wingspan apparently sold well for a board game. Personally, I love games with strange premises. Beats the monotony of playing medieval fantasy games.

[@Mindlessallen]

Yeah I think saying " don't make a game for yourself" is bad advise . If you make what you love you will put your heart into in and that will bring others in.

[@VaultBoy13]

Yep, unless you're a publisher, you should be building the game with the theme that you're passionate about. Being, yet another, ______ game seems like a much bigger issue than having a unique theme.

[@JohnTheBlacksmithUSA]

Certainly, but I think the advice here is more about making sure the game is still interesting to others. It's not just about having a unique theme. If I am a huge fan of steam trains and make a steam train game, it can be interesting. But if I build something that caters only to people that know the difference between the Edsin 105 engine compartment and the Herkimer 107 model, then it probably won't have a lot of appeal. With the ants idea, you could probably make a really neat game about an ant farm- worker ants doing tasks for the queen, etc. But if you try and make it 100% accurate to real ants with all the things a layman doesn't care about, then it's not going to be fun for others.

[@neoupdate__014]

@@Mindlessallen he meant not to get too nerdy with that Like making a game about the process that goes in the moment of the rain happening with all the scientific terms and weird mechanics that are rather confusing that interesting

[@Wipsnipidy]

That's exactly what I was thinking. I would not take this advice. Most stand out games these days have an odd premise that makes them stand out from all the clones out there... Plus, create what you'd enjoy! Why put all that work and effort into something you're not in love with

[@purplejersey5556]

You are right that the largest games market by far is the casual games segment. However, it's also true that the casual game market has the most competition, so it's very difficult to capture significant market share. As a result, targeting your games at this market will not guarantee success any more than producing "designer games" for the more niche hard core gamer market.

[@goodlookingcorpse]

I'd rather play a game about an ant colony than one about an executive about to be fired.

[@hariman7727]

I can see multiple takes too. Either competing ant colonies, or a single colony with different types of workers/warriors/queens/etc working together against random obstacles and such.

[@Noadvantage246]

To each their own I guess, to me the exec game trying to build a huge golden parachute sounds fun and humorous

[@chuckolator1859]

I think the executive one sounds really funny, and I think if presented well it could definitely have mass appeal. It's something that anyone would immediately understand and be willing to poke fun at.

[@Noadvantage246]

@@chuckolator1859 Exactly, imo the big evergreen games isn't about having just a good game it's about a concept everyone can easily understand and joke about. Just like Monopoly, Monopoly is a below avg game when you're talking about raw gameplay and mechanics. But it's fun bc the concept is everyone is a shady business man trying to own everything while screwing over the other players.

[@ionas82]

1. mechanics enforce alpha gamery 2. no interesting decisions / boring game play 3. no immersion by mechanics / slapped on theme 4. down time / no interaction / no participation while the others play 5. single player engine optimization faked as multi player 6. point salat analysis paralysis 7. issues with flow of game 8. too many rules that don't add much to the game 9. bad rules as written 10. too streamlined and dumbed down (don’t confuse with elegant like hanabi or love letter) ^ my list. Have fun.

[@SolenaGames]

hi! For all board game designers out there, I made a little tool to speed up card generation/updates for my own board game prototype (Danger Race) and it's now available for everyone, check this out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZ6WY5aaaNeMpac Cheers!

[@davidsheppard6578]

Sad confession time. Found this video via TGC news feed and watched. Heard reference to Too Big to Fail. Yeah, I was the guy who made the deck-builder about raiding failing businesses and cashing out as soon as possible. At a Protospiel about 2-3 years ago. That was literally the third test on it and I was searching for feedback on how to reduce this time and I recently picked it back up and have it down to about 45 minutes with 2 players. So sad that my first mention on a Dice Tower podcast was actually making a huge mistake. My biggest problem in designs is starting long then culling things down.

[@davidsheppard6578]

Should also probably mention I go to Protospiels with games I think have problems, otherwise I don't get the pleasure of drinking with a few designer friends trying to redeem my mistakes...

[@snugglyjeff214]

I don't think it is a big mistake to start long and optimize things as you go. That is just a normal process. Now trying to minimize that playing against yourself on a table set for 3-4 people first can help you along before you torture other people with your game lol.

[@chuckolator1859]

That's alright man, the fact that you're in the trenches working on stuff is really great. Keep doing what you love!

[@luckyrlv]

At least you got a mention! That means you are at least taking action. Something 99% of people will never do. So be proud of yourself. I too made a game, that many people actually love playing, I just need to figure out the marketing aspect, but one day I will. PS it’s Laughcronyms :) How’s that for marketing?

[@justanotherdayinthelife9841]

Thats nit a problem its a method. I respect that method.

[@lelaharkrader7734]

some time stamps: 0:46 #10 NO APPLES TO APPLES OR CARDS AGAINST HUMANITY 1:39 #9 NO MASS APPEAL 2:48 #5 TAKES TO LONG TO PLAY (go back for more context) 2:56 #8 LACKS REPLAYABIITY 4:28 #6 ONLY ONE STRATEGY 5:16 #7 TOO MANY COMPONENTS 7:04 #4 TOO COMPLEX 10:43 #3 ITS NOT FUN 12:42 #2 CHOICES ARENT INTERESTING 13:56 #1 ITS NOT UNIQUE please like this it took a long time I hope its helpful and have a great day you are amazing!

[@wasserpophim5935]

Thx

[@steelman774]

Thank you! 😎👍

[@1stepcloser2god75]

Perfect

[@AppleCore360]

I want to play that ant game :P It has potential!

[@Gutock]

+AppleCore360 ... I am dead serious, I would take another look at the ant farm game :)

[@thelonebricker662]

+AppleCore360 I was actually thinking the same thing!

[@joaocamilo8106]

+AppleCore360 Iup, it would be fANTastic!

[@SilverSurfer-cc6vp]

+AppleCore360 Could be interesting for sure. Ants vs the ant eater lol

[@obsidiazen5532]

ant farm simulator co-op sounds pretty cool actually.

[@purplejersey5556]

I think this was an interesting video, and I appreciated the insight into the panelist's views, but in the end I think it just reflects one business strategy, rather than universal truths about the business.

[@stevenzheng5459]

Ant colony game sounds like an interesting idea!

[@witekbiczyk9471]

10:06 "The big, long 2 hour game".

[@purplejersey5556]

If gameplay length is a hard and fast rule, then none of the war game publishers should be in business! I think you should have clarified that the game needs to be short if you are aiming for a mass market. Not every game is aimed at that market.

[@danielniffenegger7698]

He never introduced his second guest beyond name and never gave him a chance to present his list. I would have asked for their lists in advance, compared them, and combined/consolidated where possible.

[@TylerAndToast]

Nothing wrong with long games at all! Sad long as they're good. Just means your having fun longer

[@Berndr]

My group loves long games, the major complaint is that games end too soon before they had a chance to develop and immerse into it ...

[@mikecranapple8878]

A 2-3 hour game is EXACTLY how much time I want to spend playing with a friend or friends!

[@st0ox]

DON'T care about mass appeal when making a game. History has shown that very unpopular game genres became very successful without a publisher would have ever put their money on it...just find 1000 people who would support your crowd funding campaign and you will be good. #9 in this top list was definitely the lamest advice from a publisher perspective I ever witnessed. I support all other advices made in this video.

[@bigtopofun]

Guy in the middle is the typical guy you don’t want to play with.

[@sg219]

You should take your advice and apply it to the podcast.

[@CrimeaRiver]

lol

[@jrjm8582]

Mike no.. if your talking about the length of the video, a 30 minute podcast would be considered short.

[@DoctorOzelot]

So does the ant game have piles of chickens , hats and a boat strategy? When does the kickstarter begin?

[@jamesa.fitzpatrick1566]

I'm a first time designer and I have to say that I'm happy that I met the criteria set here. I did it through talking to other gamers and designers, who said many of the things you said. I enjoy these videos!

[@lifelonghalo]

If you think 2-3 hours is crummy mass appeal, that eliminates like 15 of the top 20 games on BGG

[@BEN_COSMO]

You are so wright, because monopoly on, one of the most played and most known games takes about 1-5 hours.

[@stevensilvers3852]

My list: 1: candyland clone

[@Noadvantage246]

As a kid I used to love candy land but thinking back it wasn't great

[@brad1840]

big long 2hr game... im sorry but our games usually go for atleast 3.5hrs?

[@marcbelisle5685]

If you're creating a game and you want it to have staying power, no matter what you want to do with it, you should just keep two things in mind: The mechanics should take minutes to learn. Strategy should take a lifetime to master.

[@KabukiKid]

Jeremy hates dice? That's like hating FUN! ;-)

[@johntan4997]

It could be RNG not smiling upon him. Lower Lucky Stat?

[@toxic_shr00m]

*Gets random crit* "I got a kill, that guy sucks, get owned idiot."

[@RatingsMan]

I've got a question... how do you go about getting a game published? I have several games finished (except the art could be improved) but I have no idea how to go about it any further than just playing them with my close friends/family. Hope someone can help.

[@TomSzczypior]

Hi. You submit your design to a publisher(s) and hope they like it. Or you start campaign on Kickstarter and try to gather money to self-publish.

[@finnfinity9711]

An idea to fix nunber 8 could be adding customization in board games, for example that the player is able to change the map, replace certaint fields etc.

[@wheelskis]

Just came back to this where I left off at 2:00 where they were finishing comments on an Ant game not having mass appeal. Just purchased Genotype, which has a whole other book giving information about Mendel and how this presents itself in a game. Additionally, Wingspan, a game about birds, was one of the highest selling games two years ago. I just finished typing this and realized the first comments are all saying essentially the same thing. I see his point, but I think he picked a horrible example. Also, unique, quirky themes may resonate strongly with players. Totally agree with Vega Star about breaking away from medieval, fantasy, space games... Good god. 2023 top selling game will be a medieval fantasy game set in space.

[@dago6410]

What exactlly is the boat strategy?

[@anzaeria]

You reckon a game about ants wouldn't have wide appeal? What about Mariposas - the game about Monarch butterflies?

[@jean-francoissoucy8340]

I'm working on an idea so that was fun to listen to.

[@board-qu9iu]

Is a board game about Toys declaring war on each other so their faction can beat out other factions and be the "ruler" of their area (Stores, homes, cars, yard sale, etc.) a good idea? (It's a combination of "deck building" and axis and allies, and will be a video game board game since it will be way too complicated.)

[@snugglyjeff214]

You can actually include multiple random mechanics in to a board game, and the game will be better for including them...but it has to be done in such a way where the player still has control. For instance, you can roll dice, but the number rolled still provides a multiple player choice on that action, and progressing every turn doesn't depend on getting a certain dice roll EVERY time. Same goes with cards. There are some games where you place tokens on a particular hex area based on the card you draw, but the card is a general area like woods/river/mountains/etc. so you can place your token on many different places on the board as long as they are one of those terrains you drew from the pile. You can actually design a game clever enough to contain 3/4 random mechanics at the same time, as long as you are still giving the player ultimately the choice on how his turn plays out. It needs to stay controlled enough so that the player plays the game, and not so helplessly random that the game plays the players.

[@ShuffleUpandDeal32]

Now that sounds like a mistake that should have been on your list, not getting licensing in order before launching a project.

[@JumboFe1337]

im making my own games atm Im using table top sim to get it made for testing I've done a few test runs and had a rework the game a few times already

[@jamesedward3619]

Wingspan just took a major dump all over #9.

[@imthegamer467]

I hope as a young designer that I will always value more my craft than the promise money of the publisher that wan to fastfood it to the big market. Complexe and long game are the future. HardGamer you are not alone, give me your money and i will create you world to explore

[@Hgkbukk]

This is both informative and hillarious, I enjoyed every minute of this!

[@merccc1]

I think a few of the points were a bit poor, but the majority were fairly solid. The theme thing for example is very debatable, and can vary usually on a case by case basis. The multiple types of randomness is also a bit debatable, there are plenty of good situations for stuff like that. It is though very dependent on how it is done, and it CAN make it a little more clean/streamlined to keep it minimal though. Some people really like having luck play a major factor as well, it really just depends.

[@FTWcrashtest]

Imagine them playing DnD

[@the_RCB_films]

where can i order some custom shaped tiles???

[@eva01iastate]

*sigh* short games short games. While fun ultimately not fulfilling and not challenging. While you may sell more games you are definitely more Katie Perry than Led Zeppelin. Give me my Splotter, 18XX, and Phil Eklund because at the end of the day they did something interesting.

[@zenoglobal99]

I agree with your comment in general, but I think the analogy is more Katie Perry than Tom Waits. Zeppelin also enjoyed huge mass market success. Logistics indicate a minor to moderate success in the mass market is way more sales than a big hit in the hardcore gamer market. The audience is thousands of times bigger. But to your point - a break out game won't have the substance real gamers desire. And they did say these points are from a publishers point of view - not a game player's POV.

[@steelman774]

who are these guys? I feel like, through comments in the conversation, that these guys are currently working in the board game industry. It would be helpful if they said what they did at the intro when they introduced themselves to give more credibility to their input. Thanks!

[@eduwoodentoysgrace4077]

Really Fantastic to see the new design Games,We are Board Game Manufacture,Good at produce printed nice box,board,rules,brochures,wooden pawns,dice...

[@Koolkole27]

I am designing a game that’s got the hex tile mechanics that are like in settlers of catan. Is that a bad idea. Is it too saturated of a game style?

[@haydengibbons5000]

Excuse me while I go make a board game about an ant farm, thanks for the idea!

[@joanbantajordan]

I love boardgames! Did you know Lagim card game? I found it at Kickstarter and it captured my interest. It is a card game battle against monsters and other players. Plus, the art and quality of the game set (based on Filipino folklore) are impressive. I think you’d love it. :)

[@johnmiller2689]

Sooo... are you guys saying that game designers should make games with few pieces, one randomizer, simple rules, and fast play. So I think a game like Cooties or Trouble?

[@nightshade3095]

I made a coop dungeon crawler for my kindergartens

[@hubristicmystic]

Ants sounds cool!

[@trojan403]

"always go the boat strategy" needs to be on a -shirt

[@cluelesswanderer]

I feel like starting off with “don’t make this type of game” isn’t great. A theme or type of game isn’t a design mistake, you can make a game about anything. While you do bring up some good points, I feel as though the video is less about “classic design mistakes” and more about how to make a game that will appeal to the largest audience. Like “the game is too long” is not necessarily a design flaw if that’s the type of game you’re trying to make or the audience you’re designing for.

[@pushpendersinghparihar753]

Hey friends .i have one doubt Can we repaint game and character of game and publish it in other language with same mechanism . Is there any copyright issue for that from designer or developer of that game?

[@Charley-ju6yg]

I mean, you’re quite literally earning money off of their game. It’s about the same as taking a song and just add a different video and singer. It’s fresh and different from the original in terms of design, but you’re still just taking a product.

[@chuckolator1859]

I really liked it guys, really straightforward!

[@specialk1287]

You just gotta bring in Miles Finch

[@ferbyallo]

Amazing interview, TOTALLY AGREE! we don´t need too many games, we need GOOD GAMES!

[@admiralcasperr]

10:43 many successful games have 700 page rulebooks. Why is that?

[@1000YearBeard]

*pile of chickens! LMAO

[@n.talbert]

This is the worst advice ever. You want a unique game with unique abilities so it doesn't feel like another game, but it can only take two minutes to teach and twenty minutes to play?

[@z-beeblebrox]

Frankly...yes? That's what you should be *shooting* for at least. You'll never come close, but the best games are learned fast and played fast ("fast" meaning under 90 minutes). Sure, you can make a giant Euro epic with a 15 page rulebook, and built-in save-state mechanics because it needs multiple days to play...but don't ever expect more than a small niche audience to like it, or even give it the time of day. But a short game with elegant mechanics that takes a few minutes to explain? You'll inspire countless people to fall in love with it. I mean, sure making the next "Puerto Rico" would be auspicious to some capacity, but who wouldn't want to be the one who makes the next Chess?? Now THAT would be something.

[@chuckolator1859]

I mean that's an awful lot of exaggeration on your part. They said 3+ hours is too long for most games aiming for mass appeal. How is that not true? They said 10+ minutes is "probably too complex" for mass market appeal. How is that not true? Keep in mind that's just the rules themselves, not necessarily how to apply strategy and the typical learn-as-you-go stuff. If you're gonna critique, at least critique what they actually said.

[@theplanetruth]

3:50- what was the game?

[@rd2234]

Brian: "A New Designer should not make an Apples to Apples / Cards Against Humanity clone" Jeremy: "Cause Cards Against Humanity has made so much money, has been so successful." Brian: "...and it has reached so many different people, you know like people who don't play games." so... it's a mistake for a game designer to want to make money, be successful, and reach so many different people?

[@WorldAquariumSingapore]

nice video with good contents there thks i am just about to try make my own boardg

[@thegamingpharaoh6996]

i made a game and passed everything on this list except 1 lol. my game is practically checkers.

[@TheDruusk]

too long...too many components...too complex...#1 BGG Gloomhaven says hi

[@HighProStrategic]

I feel like everyone one of these "top 10" apply to Twilight Imperium..... yet its successful? Eclipse... Axis and Allies..... ahaha I feel like your list is actually worthless

[@TheHallbjorn]

I think they are addressing designers not gamers. TI4 is not the type of game that has mass appeal due to barriers to entry like price, time investment, and complexity, as beloved as it is with the "hardcore gamers" (as they put it). As a matter of fact I still haven't managed to play my copy years later despite really wanting to find the time. I think these were just general rules about how to come up with the most playable, publishable, marketable game that isn't going to bankrupt you or turn off the average (mid to light weight) gamer.

[@youllhavetowait]

so.. no one's ever visited the bread aisle in the supermarket??

[@richardbennett5022]

Let's get this ant game started!!!

[@royhitchcock9714]

Yeah, if long games were an issue we wouldn’t see board game bars. More than 10 minutes to explain the rules? What the hell?

[@purplejersey5556]

Terra Mystica is not long. It plays in about 1 1/2 hours. Nor are the rules complex. However, like chess, creating the winning strategy is what a beginner would find challenging. It's true that will turn off some casual players who wouldn't enjoy playing the game enough times to work out these strategies, but at the same time it's what makes the game so appealing to others. It's certainly sold enough copies, so it can't really be pigeonholed as a niche game.

[@PrimatoFortunato]

According to what was said in this podcast it is not recommended to try design a wargame

[@ultravision8161]

"Nobody want's to play a game about ants" and yet Hive exists and I would love to play a game about ants, they have resource gathering, engine building, attacking forces. what have you been smoking?

[@eldancer2]

Speaking of randomness. What do you think of the Lord of the Rings based boars game "Hobbit". Everything in that game seems random. It's a bit annoying.

[@aaronbeedle941]

Also worth remembering monopoly, which i think has bought in billions or pounds now, is a fucking terrible game, amongst the worst ever made.

[@JorgePradoCasanovas]

So... thank God Isaac Childres published himself

[@veghist]

Honestly, shit games are created along these lines. A game sucks just because it takes more than 5 minutes to explain the rules??? Seriously?

[@onepingonly1941]

These guys are just talking disposable mass market stuff. They want a 20 minute mega hit. For the hobby market, perhaps 5 items on their list make sense.

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

I'll never understand why people care so much for the playtime. I'm on the oposite side of that. I don't get invested in any game that lasts less then 2 hours. Most of my games usually go for around 4-6 hours hehe

[@Harlequin619]

But what if I don't really want to create a game that appeals to everyone? Sure I want a game that's fun but I don't want something that's simplistic to the point of making my game boringly simple with no challenge.

[@CK-ys3tu]

Feel like this video needed a bit more structure...

[@frostburnspirit9065]

So you're supposed to discriminate against people who like longer games and create the game for the purpose of selling it rather than playing it yourself?

[@samdayak427]

Not gonna lie, this list is really weird, it contradicts what a lot of really good boardgames have. Also...isn't apples to apple and cards against humanity card games not board games? Not trying to talk crap about the peeps, after all it's from a publisher's standpoint. I do agree with number 8 and 3 tho

[@Valmar123123]

These kind of people judging games and making decisions is exactly what is wrong with the industry. They know about money and greed, but zero knowledge about boardgames.

[@GenjiroKibigami]

Yet, Gloomhaven pretty much defies every item and is massively successful. Don't listen to naysaying and build the game you want to.

[@lassi372]

aren't your number one and ten the same?

[@ionas82]

laughing out loud who cares about not unique. most successful games are not unique, just very polished and better version of what has been there before. totally wrong. (Dominion is a polished and stripped down version of StarCraft the Board Game Deck Building!)

[@michaelmahn4373]

+ionas82 That was also the point I disagreed with the most. A game should not be copycatting another, but I wouldn't say it should be "unique". Still a very interesting episode and my favorite till now. Keep up the good work!

[@ionas82]

First of all, it is de-facto happening. Then? Why not? If it is worse, people will hopefully not notice it. If it improves on anything, great?

[@Johannes_W]

Vital Lacerda must be the worst game designer ever in their eyes :-D

[@leadbones]

Meh. These guys are just wrong about a lot, like all publishers. As a gamer, I want or at least don't mind a lot of these things. As a developer of anything, you shouldn't really listen to guys like this. They are talking about making a mainstream family game as accessible as possible, not about making a game as good as possible to people who maybe prefer a lengthy, complex game where you make more than a couple of choices.

[@Georgesbarsukov]

I feel like this is intended for some downie designers

[@jonjonsson6323]

That mic has the worst design..

[@katarinagamersgal]

Bad. Just...bad.

[@hermesayala8632]

dont make a 2 hr game lol..... these guys being interviewed seem burnt out, should find another career.

[@MikeDye86]

I hate when randomization is used for things that shouldn't be random. Essentially in strategy games. Honestly dice have no place in strategy.

[@Candorsmayhem]

Mike Dye that depends. Randomization is fine, if it's applied to all players equally, doesn't change for the majority of a game sequence (like Onitama's move cards) or is visible from many turns out.

[@Anriuko]

"Dice rolls" (figuratively) are literally (literally) everywhere in real life.

[@ComplacentBadger]

"Cards and dice, the classic mistake." Man, someone better tell Imperial Assault, Dead of Winter and Eldritch Horror they screwed up.

[@ionas82]

+ComplacentBadger Cards and dice are actually a good combo

[@KabukiKid]

+ComplacentBadger Keep in mind that he established that he also just doesn't like dice in games. O_o

[@Patronux]

+ComplacentBadger You are missing the point. He is referring to cards AS randomizers, not just as components.; the same with dice. Imagine playing Munchkin with dice. That's a mistake.

[@danielniffenegger7698]

Also remember that they're giving GENERAL rules; just like rules of grammar can be bent or twisted from time to time. The important thing is to learn the rules before you try to twist them.

[@Arieltheonly]

Settlers of catan has a dice and cards lol and its a great game

[@glencannondr]

keywords "from a publisher's point of view".

[@samdayak427]

So your admitting that they're list is a little off?

[@regexRex]

You guys have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I would play the ants game if it had good mechanics. Agricola has you as a medieval farmer, HOW BORING. Except it isn't and Agricola is a great game. Mechanics > theme.

[@AdamWarner]

Its like they haven't noticed that the majority of table top games out there have obscure themes. It is one of the best things about the industry! Also if you design a game with a theme that interests you you can be sure that other people out there will also find it interesting. You are tapping a niche.

[@danielskrivan6921]

@@AdamWarner I think he explained it badly. I think what he meant is if you have a game that goes really deep into the details of something, that nobody outside of that field of interest would care about. Like if I were to make a football game, where the offense and defense each select a play, that play has a rock-paper-scissors format giving one team the advantage, and then both players roll dice to see whether the offense is successful, that could be fun. But if I make a football game, where the offense has to pick how each lineman is going to block, what route each receiver is going to run, and then you roll the dice for every block to see if the QB is sacked and for every route to see if the WR is open, it's going to get tedious. So it is a game mechanics issue, but the problem is that you dedicate too much to the theme.

[@zenoglobal99]

If they were talking about what makes a great game for hardcore gamers, I would agree with you. But the video description says these points are from a publishers point a view - not yours or mine. They don't want complexity - they want simple, fast games for mass market appeal because they know a minor breakout game will sell more copies than a hit game in the gamer market.

[@ChristophBrinkmann]

Maybe I'll make a boardgame for you; call it Major Butthurt Nerd. Object is to be the saltiest, most butthurt of them all.

[@codyharrison8612]

Ants ants ants

[@kas9402]

I disagree about point #2... if you have a great ant-themed game (or whatever) which has a very detailed and accurate theme, I love that! I love that it exists! I mean, obviously it should also be fun but the theme won't prevent that. More importantly, people who also love ants will be overjoyed that out of the sea of boring clones of popular theme shit, there's something for them. Why would you discourage people from producing something original? If they're making it because they want that game but it doesn't exist, why doesn't it exist? Because of attitudes like this, like, "you won't make gobs of money unless it's fantasy-themed or something!" I mean, maybe making gobs of money isn't their game design goal...

[@zenoglobal99]

"I mean, maybe making gobs of money isn't their game design goal..." that may often be the case, but the goal for this video is in the description. These points are from a game publisher's point of view - not a game players perspective and least of all from hardcore gamer's POV. Publishers are mainly interested in a breakout game for the masses. Fast and simple.

[@LeeroyPorkins]

1. It has to have an app 2. It is a legacy game 3. It is a roll and write 4. Kickstarter "Exclusives" 5. Blind Collecting 6. Too many components (Making it hard to store, set up, tear down, travel with) 7. VOTING FOR TURN ORDER/LAWS IN A SPACE GAME! 8. Games that punish you for ANY decision you make 9. Missprinted components (Terraforming Mars)