Board Game Expansions Suck | 10 Reasons Why + 3 GREAT Expansions

[@elmotoja]

Seems like it is more of gamers and addiction problem than the expansion problem. If you're playing a lot of games and you don't need expansions and YOU have all those problems (not the expansions), then solve this for yourself and don't buy as many. When there are people who love the game, play more of a single title and are not overwhelmed by additional rules or need to reference the core rules (because they simply know them), then an expansion that refreshes, depends or expands the game is for them. As simple as that

[@Neon_Gorilla]

ditto :)

[@quashmonkey]

Awaken realms is notorious for having multiple boxes for expansions and its horrible putting everything away.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

yes certainly an impediment to getting them tabled for me.

[@GourmetBurrito]

I agree with all the points. Buuut I couldn't agree with you on the poll. Especially for expansions that come out after a bit and it's just more of the same. Like low buy-in and adding in a bunch of cards or tiles or something. Fits in the base box. Or like standalone expansions where I can buy one version and my friend buys the other. I think when an expansion changes the game fundamentally I'm much more hesitant. Even if it's a good change. Like I can keep two games' rules separate in my mind because they are so different. But with an expansion, things get way blurrier and I have this pressure when I bring out a game to not have to check the rulebook. And when I can't, I just don't want to bring it out

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yeah the poll certainly was not fair as you saw I even wavered a bit. I just think the reason for an expansion has moved from making a game better after receiving feedback or fans begging for more content to simply a money grab.

[@j_atkinson]

I was very much into getting every expansion for games I liked early in the hobby. That all changed when I realized some expansions killed what I loved about the base game or made it a pain to setup and teardown! Because of that, I'm more careful about what expansions I get for games I like. For instance, just like you mentioned, I can't imagine playing without Prelude for Terraforming Mars because it actually enhances the base game with such a small tweak, but I could care less about Colonies & Venus Next. The same for Roll for the Galaxy's Ambition which is great and has small modular tweaks to the game versus Rivalry which adds whole new chunks of mini game on top of the game. You mentioned having too many choices, and I can somewhat understand that feeling at times but I prefer to have more modular expansions that are easy to put in and take out without a big ripple affect of "You have to have expansion C to add expansion B because B depends on expansion D which depends on C" That's why I enjoy Marvel Champions modularity and ease of getting to the table after I've picked a villain and hero to play :) Same for Nusfjord... just pick a deck and go! I do agree that I absolutely hate games that launch with expansions. I'm less likely to trust that the core game is solid and playtested enough to be viable without expansions.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

yeah I think it is a double edges sword, some are great and others are money grabs. Some are easy to integrate and others require relearning the module every time.

[@nipzie]

Wingspan had perfect expansions (for the first 2). Just add in, read the cards for what they do, and here's a wild resource too. Barely anything needs to be learned, it's just more of the same mechanics. More expansions and it's just too much bloat and decks get too large, imo but if I can simply add in cards and get going, I'm happy.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I agree those are my favorite. I will say I liked the little module that Asia added in. I actually like that one as a stand alone 2 player game. We have kept it separate so far. Until of course I get the nesting box :)

[@nipzie]

@@Neon_Gorilla I decided against the nesting box because I have an insert that fits everything in the base game box. I was gifted Asia which I wouldn't have gotten and it kind of threw it off but I made it work albeit poorly compared to how it was with just Europe and Oceania. But it does still work in one box.

[@lemilfy]

Man, I agree with you 100% here. I'm not a fan of expansions, and of 100 or so base games I own, I have maybe 5 expansions that I regularly play with, and those do not fundamentally change the way base game is played and just add extra content. I think A FEAST FOR ODIN is an exception but that one streamlines the game for 2p, so it's essential. We found ourselves looking for new content after playing the base for 10 or so times, and need something new to spice up the game.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

ahh the question is how many expansion do you own and not play?

[@lemilfy]

@@Neon_Gorilla According to my BGG, I own 16 exps, but only 2 were bought by me, and actively get played (Norwegians and Long Weekend for Santa Monica), and rest were given to me for review with the base game. I haven't played with/reviewed most of them yet, but I really enjoy LROA and Parks exps

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I am surprised with so few, I suppose publishers send out base games more often.

[@Triston_Yocom]

Great video! I’ve definitely backed games with expansions I didn’t care for. Now I wait to buy any expansion after I play the base game multiple times & watch reviews or playthroughs on the expansion before buying any. That way I get more of the games I love while avoiding bad expansions or buying them for games I don’t play enough!

[@Neon_Gorilla]

You sound like a seasoned board gamer. :) I wish I had that self control. Literally today I was looking at life of Amazonia wondering if I needed all the expansions and upgrades. lol

[@Triston_Yocom]

@@Neon_Gorilla I still get sucked in on a few games to go all in without playing it before hand….Merchants Cove & Coloma are a couple examples of that hahah

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@Triston_Yocom I almost backed this second merchants cove and glad I didn’t. I keep seeing updates come though on that and it seems very late.

[@babylonsfall7]

I totally agree with everything you said in this video! One good example is with The Witcher games where you seem to need the roaming boss expansion for it to be good. I love Dune Imperium core game but hate the 2 expansions which mess with the game too much. Now with a game like Lost Ruins of Arnak, the expansions are pretty neat though (which you agreed with as well). For that game, though, my criticism is that there are not multiple paths to win, making it less replayable for me.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Arnak with expansions is a little tricky, the core two paths to victory in defeating guardians and going up the track are still “the” path. Leaders changes the way you get there in a pretty big way. I have found if you are not the same leader every time the puzzle feels different and exciting enough to keep me engaged. It is missing the third dimension like Dune has in combat as a viable way to points. I think having that third ”thing” to score with really would help it. But I am happy with what it is nonetheless.

[@babylonsfall7]

@@Neon_Gorilla - ​​⁠ - I’ve tried going all monsters or all cards/artifacts and just some on the research track and both methods were easily defeated by focusing on the track and some monsters. Also I found some cards extremely powerful like the Camera (forgot name) one. Whoever got that card almost always won b the game. That said, I do Iove the way the different leaders play, I just got a bit bored of the “core game” and the leaders were not enough to keep me wanting to play. You are right about Dune Imperium. The intrigue cards are also a step above Arnak imo. I’ve seen people get 2 or 3 points on endgame and win, something Arnak lacks. But as I said, I don’t like the Dune expansions at all. And I also have no idea why they made the newest one which is basically a 2nd edition.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Intrigue cards piss me off…they are fun when they work for you but suck when they don’t :)

[@danje748]

Interesting video, it did not really cover the topic as much as I expected. But it was good nonetheless. I do have some thoughts on it. Regarding the high BGG score for expansions. In the majority of cases, only people who really like the game will get expansions (KS excluded). So that means few people who don't like it will play and score them. Greatly increasing their score. That explains why they keep popping up at the top of the scoring lists. Something I also initially wondered when I noticed it. The first thing that hit me as I was watching was a question. Why are you buying expansions? It seems like a very easy fix. It sounds like you would play the games you have way more without them, and probably enjoy them more as well in the majority of cases. And if an expansion happens to be so good and needed for a game then just by that expansion after you know it is good. I mean with all the money you should save on not buying the expansions you most likely could rebuy the base game and the crucial expansion if it was that good. If you had gotten rid of the base game that is. Regarding your 10 arguments, most of them were kind of strange. There is not a big box, there is a big box but the box is too big. You can't have it both ways, it would be great, especially in the face scenario. But alas I have been told that is not an option. But I have to say the last argument is an interesting one. I would have loved to see a video on that alone. I can't agree with you more about how annoying I find it to see a Kickstarter with a game and a handful of expansions already there. My own more cynical thoughts about that is the game most likely is not very good. So if they put out the expansions alone no one would buy them because no one wants to expand a bad game. Regarding the whole, an expansion as an analog version of a patch. I really like that idea. Sadly I find it not that often done. Mostly because if there is a big flaw in the game, and the game is popular, they will just put out a new version of the game. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one game that has done both. FFG´s Game of Thrones, apparently it had some flaw in it that got addressed in an expansion, and that was included in the later versions of the game. But I think, sadly, more often than not such flaws are just left unaddressed completely. I have however seen a video raising an interesting point, and a good one as well in my book, about some issues with expansions or big boxes. That was the KS video for the expansion of Obsessions. The arguments there where more from a company's side but still. Give it a watch, its worth the time (8-9 min I think it is). Than you for an interesting video. =)

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I appreciate your thoughtful comment. The video could have been 6 reasons. I was just being cheeky. The main reason the video existed is 1/10. The main reason I buy expansions is loss aversion plus I review them. My observation though is they don’t get to the table much. Appreciate you watching.

[@danje748]

@@Neon_Gorilla Ah got it. For me when we game it is often done with some expansion if there is one. I have to say tho that I find it frustrating that very few expansions nowadays change the game in any real way. Meaning it doesn't really seem to matter if you use them or not.

[@JacobPorterLadder]

I agree with the FOMO of campaigns, it's why I ignore CMON, ARz and Steamforge games and the like completely. I also will never be backing $200. The only time I did give in was Apex Legends because I want those other characters which is a little different because they don't change the core game. I also agree with my favorite expansions are ones like for Arnak that change your decisions and add cards but don't change any of the core mechanics and flow. adding Asymmetric powers is an easy one to add in.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

another great example was the most recent dead reckoning expansion and insanely priced wooden big box....many liked the offered and pushed back on a video but felt like a clear money grab and reason to put it back on kickstarter instead of taking risk on themselves and just printing the base for retail.

[@JacobPorterLadder]

@@Neon_Gorilla yeah, I accidentally kept my pledge of the DR expansion and asked for a refund actually. The Big Box is crazy, and it's extra crazy that 1500 people backed it... It alone without the expansion costs about as much as the base game and the first 2 sagas.... Some of these KSs really take advantage of the interest free loan and I hate it

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@JacobPorterLadder yeah that interest free loan is something that is not talked about enough. This is an insane money saving for them. It is not just interest in the one or two years to make the thing they would actually have to sell it and recoup the cash. All the risk is in the backers who actually pay more due to shipping that they would never pay at retail. The narrative is many of these games have low margins and would never be viable…maybe that is true but I would argue that they are only viable due to predatory marketing tactics. Dead decking base would sell well at retail maybe not all the extra crap they produced and that extra crap is clearly where thier margins are. Weigh the plastic and cardboard and tell me letters of marque is more than a small fraction of the cost of base. Get us in the door on what is a reasonably priced and date I say it a good value for the base and then gouge the crap out of us using FOMO psychology to make us feel like we need it all. Sorry for the rant…sounds like a video is needed.

[@monoludico6166]

Hi, great content. New subscriber here. The expansions that really sucks for me are: 1) Those which clearly were part of the base game but were subtracted for future profiting (e.g. Scythe, invaders from Afar) B) Those that add so little but are so pricy (e.g. Teotihuacan: Shadow of Xitle... $15-20 for like 20 tiny cardboard tiles come on!) C) Those totally unnecessary countless expansions (e.g. Carcassonne, Dominion, etc.) D) Those that "fix" the base game (e.g. Scythe modular board). But I totally love expansions that add tons of replayability and new strategies to their base games, like: Root (all "new factions" expansions), Spirit Island: Jagged Earth, Dune Imperium: Rise of Ix, Lost Ruins of Arnak: Leaders, Troyes: The Ladies of Troyes, Sid Meier's Civilization: Wisdom and Warfare, Race for the Galaxy: The Gathering Storm and Revel vs. Imperium. I also adore new maps, like: Terraforming Mars: Hellas & Elysium, Steam: all maps, Ticket to Ride (same). Board games in the old days were just great without expansions. There you have: Caylus, Puerto Rico, Through the Ages, Brass, Gaia Project... Oh, those long gone days! I think what you hate is savage capitalism and fool consumerism taking over our beloved hobby, not expansions themselves. BTW, The Law of Root (gladly) is an exception to your #1 😊 Anyway, you make very good points!

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Welcome aboard! I think #1 irks me the most, it is insulting the consumers intelligence. And I agree with your assessment of my position sad well. You are a great addition to the community and don’t be a stranger!

[@monoludico6166]

@@Neon_Gorilla thanks for the hospitality ☺️

[@TreeOfLifeWoodworking]

I absolutely love expansions and I would argue that in many cases I wouldn't ever play the base game without the expansions. I think one of the reasons it's so necessary is they wanna keep sticker price down so separating the game into parts helps it be more accessible. Updated rulebook for expansions should be a requirement lol. Scythe did wonderful for example. Also speaking of Stonemaier Games, they made sure Expeditions insert had space for future content which is brilliant.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

This is a fair take depending on your experiences. Only partially true with mine.

[@kbzombie84]

I have found that I do not enjoy or even play most expansions I have bought in the past with crowdfunding campaigns. Only getting core sets for this year and will see how it turns out.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yeah I can’t think of many I have bought with core games that I actually consistently play with.

[@draheim90]

Of course expansions are going to be highly rated and thus be disproportionally represented in the top-ranked entries on BGG as generally only people who like the game are going to buy the expansion. But you make a lot of good points. The more expansions I get for a game the less likely I am to get the game to the table. So I rarely buy more than one expansions for games (unless they’re small ones) and I also rarely buy expansions if I can’t fit everything in the base box. Dune Imperium was also a wakeup call. Bought both expansions, loved them, then like a month later they announced Dune Uprising. The bar for me getting an expansion increased substantially after that.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yeah Dune is a feel bad moment, I wish they sat on it for a year or so. Feels a bit opportunistic in the midst of the movies releasing.

[@DumahAtreides]

Good thoughts. Can't argue with most of these points - even though I love expansions. The fundamental pro beyond the patch aspect mentioned is variability. A lot of games to me shine best when it's not just the single polished version but like an alternating map on a video game giving various flavors for the same system. Everdell big box is again, a good example of just that. I have modules in Everdell I always include (New Leaf and variable player powers), but beyond that I alternate between the other content. Vindication is very similar. That's certainly not for everyone but it does increase my enjoyment. Overall, I'd say that 80% of the expansions I buy I enjoy.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

All valid reasons. I wonder why I feel like that collectors edition is so overwhelming and you don’t. Do you play it often? I suppose if I made myself get in that box more often I would be less over whelmed.

[@DumahAtreides]

@@Neon_Gorilla It may be that I started originally with the base game and tried the expansions slowly. By the time I had the big box, the only things we hadn't played was New Leaf (the best expansion IMO) and the collectors stuff. No interest in Nightweave solo or coop. Too many games to say we play frequently - couple times a year.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@DumahAtreides yeah I only had spirecrest (which I really like but wife hated.) before getting the collectors.

[@richardhancock1505]

Solid points. Enjoyed the thinking and agree. Now I might sell the Fractures of Time expansion in order to entice myself and my group back to Anachrony!

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I haven’t played anachrony. Did fractures over complicate it? If a mind clash game wasn’t already complicated enough. :)

[@stormburns]

​@@Neon_GorillaFoT takes Anachrony from a 3.8 to a 4.4. it's a must have for solo though.

[@Frodo-]

I agree with you in this. Expansions are a necessary evil, even though I do love the evil little things. Things I like: -Its easier to tell my wife Im buying a new expansion vs new game -I know I already like the game -The new rules overhead shouldnt be like learning a new game But I do share your same frustrations. How does the ratio of expansions to games go from 2010 to now? Thinking kickstarter is also a major reason for expansions. Much like your video game analogy that games are being rushed out faster than they used to. Also, greed... More expansions for a successful game means easy money.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yeah. I think it is mostly looking for opportunities to make money. The tricky part is the space is so crowded and competition so fierce many are just trying to compete by producing tons of shiny exciting stuff.

[@radical_dog]

I'm relatively anti-expansion. I like the ones that add a bit of variety or rebalancing, like Cosmic Incursion, Mysterium's expansions, Roll for the Galaxy Ambition, or Arkham 3rd ed's Dead Of Night. "Stuff packs" basically, rather than many optional modules. Also, frankly I'm a big believer in only buying expansions if you've played the game a handful of times and already like it! Some expansions categorically make games worse, and people don't acknowledge this enough. You make a game too big, too unportable, too modular, and people stop playing it. Railroad Ink is the perfect example, with 20+ pointless modules. All they've ended up doing is taking a filler game and making it worse. Sushi Go Party is another, where they've made a wonderful small game into a bigger, diluted experience that is harder to get to the table with the inlaws.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I agree whole heartedly, some games are wonderful because of their simplicity.

[@kimklisiak6421]

Scythe and Vindication have complete rulebooks with all expansions. The reason it's not done more is they have to be completely finished making expansions. Vindication is coming out with more mini modules with separate rules, and then their complete rulebook will no longer be complete....

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I am fine with them just updating a complete rule book as they go. Root continues to update the Laws of Root with each new faction. It simply vas a version number.

[@lostfanatic6]

Western Legends also has a complete rulebook. Very helpful!

[@andyliebermann5244]

I'd love the complete Scythe rulebook but shipping to Canada is brutal. I've already spent a lot to go all in. I love the Root rulebooks constant update. Latest game has the latest rulebook.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@andyliebermann5244 yeah Root is the only consistent one I can think of but I am sure there are others.

[@marcosseven8872]

I love Vindication. Will look to get the ancients box with all the content

[@andyliebermann5244]

What drives me bananas is the idea of an essential expansion. So many KZbinrs told me expedition leaders and rise of ix were essential to arnak and dune respectively. I got them both. I don't play enough to have used either yet. I've pulled the extra cards and guardians for arnak but rise of ix is still in shrink. The only expansion I feel has been essential is Wingspan Oceania for the better balanced player boards. Herb Witches for Quacks is nice to have. Have I played it with five yet? Nope I also backed Everdell all in because it was an awesome value. Haven't played it since getting it. The box is massive. I'm not hauling it anywhere, so if I'm not playing it at home I'm not playing it. I also feel like pulling that box out in front most of my friends will scare the shit out of them. Parks has a fantastic insert. The expansions have great inserts too but I really wish they would rerelease it all in a parks 2.0 big box. The nightfall goal cards improve upon the base game goal cards. It would be best if they were integrated into the base game without nightfall. Leave nightfall as modular

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I am embarrassed to show the. Ox to my wife. It’s so silly after having the basic retail. I certainly am one of the expedition leader pushers but I did say in my video to only get it after you feel like base is repetitive and predictable. My wife and I played it so much that the path to victory was a race up the track each and everyone me. Leaders at least a gives advantages in other areas to explore.

[@andyliebermann5244]

@@Neon_Gorilla my wife isn't keen on many games. She likes lighter abstract fare like Kingdomino, Sagrada, Azul, etc. However she really liked Everdell so I jumped on it. I ordered it before she was pregnant. By the time the Kickstarter delivered we had a baby. Nothing kills your social life like a small child. He's two now, I'm sure he'll play all the expansions with me in another eight years or so 😅

[@lithracSolo]

TBH, it depends so much on what game and which expansion you're considering. I'm with you with the irritating general tendency to produce lots of expansions nowadays. I don't like having multiple boxes for a game, or multiple rulebooks, as you state. Yet in some cases, some rare expansions are exceptional, or have become near-mandatory (Prelude for TM and The Norwegians for AFFO), but these are highly uncommon. Most expansions are completely dispensable, or should be in the core box anyway!

[@Neon_Gorilla]

It certainly does depend but agree with you that the majority while may be valuable should be in the Core box. Thanks for watching!

[@Hoellenseher]

There are 3 kinds of expansions. 1. it fixes mayor flaws of the games and becomes a staple (viticulture tuscany, feast for odin norwegians, forest shuffle alpine, terraforming mars prelude) 2. it adds stuff that fits into the game, just add it and go from there, few new rules, just a nice add (ark nova marine worlds, anything Dominion, Sky team new missions, riftforce beyond) 3. it adds complexity that shifts the focus of the game away from the good core concepts/mechanisms, adds a bunch of new ideas and feels as if it was never planned and mostly developed as a money grab. Most likely great for absolute lovers of the game, but everyone else is better of without them (no need to shame examples, everyone will have some in mind)

[@Hoellenseher]

Btw I love Space Alert new frontiers, but it's 100% category 3. If you don't play the game excessively over months, category 3 expansions are a trap. At least from the gameplay perspective, from the collector perspective, you do you

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I agree. Sadly forest shuffle alpine is not available for me yet. We played an insane amount of that game and while I would still play it a couple clear strategies emerged with some classes of cards never used. You are the second one to bring up how great it is. I am jealous.

[@vincentgaliano]

I agree. Expansions should just correct a game / make it better (like to next Expeditions expansion that look underwhelming but essential) or add a bit variety. That’s it. Only expansions I bought was Toscany for Viticulture, as it makes to games more realistic (with the 4 seasons board) and Europe for Wingspan (I’ll buy the others too). Also, expansions are so expensive ! I haven’t bought Rise of Ix yet just because I prefer buying a full game at that price.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yes that mmm me prices to content ratio seems of when comparing what you get with many base games. I think once a game has you it is easier to justify, the old sunk cost fallacy. I think publisher know this and use this to drive margin.

[@naturesfinest2408]

​@@Neon_Gorillamaybe its sunk cost but its more likely, for retail, to be that fewer people will buy the expansion than who will buy the base game. So they make less, production costs more. They have to recoup the money and people will always be less likely to buy and expansion than the base game.

[@jasonc2784]

I like expansions that fix issues. I can understand the expansion tiered pricing model. At some point, you're going to price the game out of the majority of buyers, and like you said, most players won't get through the extra content. The tiered pricing might be required to make a profit or pay the creators. It used to be common that a video game didn't make a real profit until the sequel or DLC was releaed using the already developed game engine and assets. Usually you can buy the expansions after you've outplayed the base game anyway.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

yeah it just sucks that we can't just get the best game possible at a transparent price.

[@coreyray248]

Dude, my wife just said this yesterday! She hates learning new games and gets so impatient when I try to teach her. It’s the reason Spirit Island still sits on my shelf unplayed, it’s just too daunting of an endeavor. And any mention of an expansion to any of our games is met with groans and eye rolls. My birthday hits later this month, and I’m excited that she’s going to get me a few new games off my wish list, but on the flip side, I know I’ll have to teach them to her. The ironic of it all is that once she learns a game, she wipes the floor with me like 70% of the time. 🤣 On the topic of expansions, I just hope publishers aren’t taking cues from video games and purposely selling us incomplete base games for the purpose of selling us the expansion, especially if the designer never intended it to be separate in the first place. Cardboard is expensive these days, but I will say that this has become the cheapest hobby I’ve ever had, for what it’s worth.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I suppose there are plenty of hobbies much more expensive… Will say if you only buy what you can reasonably play and get your moneys worth out of it is very reasonable. My eyes tend to be larger than my stomach

[@chuckm1961]

You have a new subscriber, after this popped up in my feed. Expansions have proliferated because (same as movies) they make money off of people who will buy something just based on familiarity. I USED to be an “auto-buy the expansion” kind of person, and I learned my lesson. Nowadays, I default to NOT buying expansions. It has worked out just fine for me!

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Welcome aboard Chuck, glad we found each other. I too have had many issues with the auto buy mentality. I have been forced to be more discerning as I buy alot of non-expansions to cover on the channel and have not missed them. I will say I still fall prey to the loss aversion of KS...thanks for giving me a try.

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

I vastly prefer getting an expansion to a game I like then getting a different game I like less then that game... And expansions releasing with the base game have plenty of valid reasons. The main one is: The expansions adds an extra alement that increase the game deep/complexity and should be used only after you are familiar with the base game. But It makes Sense to offer that advanced options right away for those players that will get deeper with the game from the start.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I would point to Septima as a great example where a publisher introduces the game missing a module to simplify and then allows a player to add it on later. This is part of the base game and could have easily been marked up and sold to me to get a more complex game. I appreciate this approach over the initial offering locking me out of the best version of the game because I did not but an add on that should have been included.

[@tmcd5049]

Totes agree with a lot of your ranting! Where I disagree is with storytelling games like Oltree or Time Stories (disclaimer: I've never played this one), where each expansion gives you another story or campaign to enjoy! Even Marvel Champions box sets have something to offer by way of a change of scene but familiar gameplay.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Don’t get me started on marvel champions. I have everything up to X-men and don’t play. I got much of it to get the right cards to build the right decks. Such a money pit. Great game though. The story stuff is fine if you play it enough. I can’t only speak for myself and that is not the case. Thanks for watching.

[@tmcd5049]

@@Neon_Gorilla Thanks, I kind of agree, I'm in the same boat, but I feel they have a worthy story, in each campaign expansion, just mostly not worthy campaigns! Many challenges, from one box, though, and comic-book nostalgia galore. But, sure, money pit city!

[@Thirftstorekeeper]

I think a lot of the issues with expansions now comes back to crowdfunding and selling the big package at once. I think the best expansions are ones the allow the base game to breathe and develop a fan base before being produced so that the enhance the game for the true fans (TI prophecy of kings, viticulture Tuscany etc)

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I agree.

[@landlboardgames]

I agree with all of these. I don't need 15 different ways to play the same game that I can add 10 different modules too. I'm not going to play a game that many times to ever get to all that. A good expansion needs to be easy to implement and just add more of the same good stuff or (sad that this has to happen) fix an issue with the game (Viticulture Tuscany)

[@Neon_Gorilla]

What was the issue Tuscany fixed? I know it enhanced by adding 2 seasons. I have only ever payed it that way so have no idea. Yeah I tend to like the idea of modules but hate them in practice. The rules overhead hardly feels worth it.

[@landlboardgames]

@@Neon_Gorilla i guess Wingspan Oceania might be a better example with fixing the egg laying problem. But Tuscany gives more uses to coins, they feel pretty pointless toward the end of the base game. And give more avenues of scoring VP. Norwegians is a great expansion. Changes gameplay a bit but all in good ways.

[@dr3putt62]

Mostly expansions do not advance gameplay…. Unless you are Uber player of the game. Of my collection, Prelude for TM, Tuscany for Viticulture, and Power up for Tesla vs Edison Are the only ones I can’t play without…. I have many tho

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I agree, I think our eyes are often bigger than out stomach when assessing how much of a game we will play and if an expansion will be worth while.

[@naturesfinest2408]

I agree with number 1/10 *but* there are good reasons to release expansions along side a board game. The expansion can make the main board game to bloated/exspensive for people who only want the base game. I may not want to pay an extra 10 dollars for a board game to get another set of cards with it. You want to get people in with the base game alone, this includes at retail. That being said, most "expansions" i see sold with kickstarter are not worth the it. Most of them could be sold with the base game but just arent.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Fair, if only pledge levels were separated by $10 though :). I still stand by the fact that if it’s so good it should be in the base game. Generally many more back the campaign at the all content tier because of loss aversion.

[@Smylesss]

The only expansion I own that I truly think is valuable and valid as an expansion is Spirit Island: Jagged Earth. Expansions typically feel as things that either were ripped out of the base game or things that were tacked on to the base game unnecessarily in an attempt to squeeze money out of a successful title. Jagged Earth feels like neither of those things. Spirit Island is a fantastic, complete, cohesive experience in its own right and Jagged Earth isn't there to "fix" any of the issues with the game, or add content that probably just should have been in the base game to begin with. Jagged Earth adds 8 new, unique, more complicated spirits for people to sink their teeth into once they have already "exhausted" the initial 8 starting spirits. There is a lot of content that comes in the Jagged Earth expansion as well, and for games like Spirit Island where a lot of the fun comes in learning and playing asymmetric characters, more characters is never a bad thing. I hate board game expansions that only exist to fix previously broken or fiddly systems. A great example of this that comes to mind is Terraforming Mars's "Prelude" expansion. The beginning rounds of TM are painstakingly slow, which is an annoying stain on an otherwise great game. So while the existence of an expansion to help streamline those early, boring rounds sounds nice, it really just feels like something that should've been included from the get-go, as the game just feels bad to play without it. Ideally, an expansion should be optional, but add a nice extra level of depth to a game without bloating it: expanding old systems instead of adding new ones. I would not consider playing TM without Prelude, which just makes me annoyed that I had to spend an extra $15 on an expansion to complete the base game experience.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

The question is was prelude a planned expansion or a result of not play testing enough. I agree it’s nice to have new spirits but there is no chance I will play them all consistently enough to actually learn how to properly play them.

[@Smylesss]

@@Neon_Gorilla regardless of whether it was unplanned or planned, it still doesn’t feel great to spend $15 to “fix” a game I already bought :/. That’s the beauty of Jagged Earth though, Spirit Island is a fantastic game on its own and I don’t think you’re really missing out on anything if you don’t buy expansions. Jagged Earth just gives you options to play spirits that approach the game in slightly different ways while still holding true to the core experience that makes Spirit Island fundamentally itself.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@Smylesss I agree with your points on jagged earth. I just don’t think all of it is necessary for 90% of people.

[@shadowbanned4606]

9:50 cut content scam in plain sight.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

What is a content scam?

[@ncc1701jv]

Back in the beginning days of this hobby for me, every time i liked a game, id instantly go out and buy every expansion. At some point i realized i either 1) wasnt playing them anyways (136 marvel legendary products )or 2) some expansions make the game worse (looking at you stone age)

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I two giant marvel champions boxes collecting dust, I considered legendary at the time I was buying champions as well. Glad I held out.

[@yogibbear]

Good expansions! Star Wars Rebellion: Rise of the Empire Res Arcana: Lux et Tenebrae 7 Wonders Duel: Pantheon Orleans: Trade & Intrigue Roll for the Galaxy: Ambition Inis: Seasons of Inis Arkham Horror the card gane: ALL OF THEM! 😱

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Would you say any of them are critical?

[@MF-jx9xb]

I have a small collection of board games but Star Wars Rebellion; Rise of the Empire expansion elevated the base game for me. It is the only expansion I have bought for my 30 or so game collection. I am considering Marine Worlds for Ark Nova.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yeah most have said marine worlds is great. I appreciate its relative small footprint and price.

[@WarIsNoMoreCold]

Expansions that add stuff in a kind of modular way are kind of nice, specially to light and medium/light games (Catan, 7 Wonders, Carcassone, King of Tokyo). Expansions that change the base game suck for me tho. I've sold both 7 Wonders Duel expansions and don't like Catan: Cities & Knights. I think most heavy games can be considered games + expansions in terms of complexity, so I don't mind buying expansions for them.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I tend to like the idea of modularity it’s just my experience that I tend not to use the modules enough. Off the top of my head many of the best games I have played tend to be just base games.

[@LutinesqueLutin]

Nemo's War published a new rulebook with all expansions, too. I agree with you, I don't like to have a lot of boxes for ONE game (eand its expansions), usually I try and to have everything in the core box. I agree with you about all the big boxes points. I own only one and it's a gift from my children (Terraforming Mars, a game I don't like that much and I don't play a lot!!!!!! But it's a birthday gift...). I have to say again, I agree with you, but still, I like expansions. Or I like some expansions : the ones for my favorite games (Spirit Island, Shadows of Brimstone, Apocrypha, Scythe, Arnak), and there is the campaign expansions too. I LOVE Arkham Horror the LCG, I own every thing and I played all the campaigns ( I have more than 300 plays with this game). So, I love to add stuff to these games I do like a lot (Arkham Horror V3, Empire Assault, Lord of the Ring LCG, Mansions of Madness). I have other games with few expansions (1 or 2) not all of them, only when they add a good content. I wait for some crowfunding games, and I bougth only one expansion with the base game (Secrets of Lost Tomb).

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yeah like I had mentioned that there are good reasons for some expansions to exist but much of it seems to be a money grab.

[@stormburns]

Darwin's Journey Collectors rulebook includes all rules in one rulebook! Endless Winter Rivers and Rafts is must have. But retail box! Had more fun with it than with Arnak. Everdell with 4 expansions fit into the base game box plus the mini Bellfair box. Same footprint as Obsession. The big box is so dumb haha! I love my voidfall retail box. Im only missing the dual layer sector tiles. But i'll live! TMB base (small box) + UT + 2 Gearlocks. All I need and its fairly easy to pick a box and go.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

By the way do I need Darwin’s? Also will I need the expansion for the best experience. ;)

[@stormburns]

@@Neon_Gorilla "need" I don't know. It's not a must have game overall. It's a 4.5/5 for me. The Kickstarter modules are not a must have at all, the animal companions are fun to have and do add to the game. Base game is complete on its own though. Fireland is great though. I would choose to own it over not owning it. However I would just as much be happy to play the base game. Fireland probably adds 30min to playtime because there are a lot more options and thus AP.

[@stormburns]

If you Like combotastic chaining, it's one of the best games I've played and might then be a must have game for you. It's definitely one worth trying. Heavy gamers will call Fireland essential. Especially if you play games multiple times in short secession. I played base game 5x in on a weekend and then got out fireland. The first worker placement game in my collection I don't see ever leaving. Normally I'm not such a fan of the mechanic

[@Bob_Co]

Along with your loss aversion observation in campaigns that launch with add-ons and expansions alongside the base is "ladder pricing". Oh look, this deluxification is only $15, I'm already spending $100, why not, oh hey, this whole expansion is $40, but more than doubles the gameplay at less than half the base, nice, oh look it has three deluxifications at only $10 each. Now you've nearly doubled your initial buy. Of course people should be responsible for their own decisions, and I'm not saying they are being duped, but it is a psychological marketing game.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Certainly we are all responsible but it is helpful understanding how marketing is using human psychology to manipulate our natural instincts.

[@TRCizzle]

If it fits in the base core box and expands core gameplay in meaningfull ways ( like expanding player count and improving gameplay) I don't mind them at all. Otherwise, no thank you. Big expansion no-no's are : changing core rules, bloating game time, different box dimensions, expensive pricing, having more than one (or two, max) per game...

[@Neon_Gorilla]

What expansion comes to mind that has met your “good” criteria the best? I am doing research for my follow up video.

[@TRCizzle]

@@Neon_Gorilla I wouldn't say you should take this as gospel as it's just my prefferences and I like to keep my collection "clean", but what I consider as expansions that were worthwhile that I purchased: Cascadia: Landmarks, Concordia: Venus, 7 Wonders: Agora, Flamme Rouge: Peloton, Ark Nova: Marine Worlds, Wingspan : All of them :) ... Love your videos, one of the rare content creators where I'm shocked at the subscriber count as it should be at least 15x more :D

[@bartolllomeo]

DI expansion rulebooks are so short that it’s a pleasure to read them lol. I’d agree with few of the points, but expansions 70% of the time bring a good refreshment/addition to the game

[@Neon_Gorilla]

what are some of your favorites? I think more broadly my thesis is they mostly such when released at the same time as the core game...its s silly marketing scheme and should either be called the base game because it makes the best version of the game or it is a bolt on that was created as an upsell. Expansions that are a reaction to fan feedback whether it be something is broken or they want more are warranted...

[@bartolllomeo]

@@Neon_Gorilla actually made me go to the room I have games lol. If I had to say which are my favourite, I'd say Immortality from Dune Imperium (I play a lot of Dune) and the addition of Tleilaxu cards & track, and the second one would be the first expansion to Arnak - added asymmetry makes this game way more playable in my book . As for the core game it was fine, but it did have some problems which were fixed in both expansions (but of course I'd prefer it to be released in a core game, but well). But if erxpansions are released in the way you mentioned, then yeah - not a cool way to rely on FOMO to get more money.

[@bartolllomeo]

@@Neon_Gorilla I also play a lot of Arkham Horror and Marvel Champions LCGs, so expansions there are basically more cards & story, but this is not the case we mention here :D

[@davidlhsl]

The worst part of being addicted to expansions because you want your game to be complete (me!) is when the game is replaced by a new version that is incompatible with the prior version. Think Battlelore, Summoner Wars, Sentinels of the Multiverse, and many others. I tend to keep my old version without buying in to the upgrade.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@davidlhsl I too identify, sometimes I hate that I am a completionist.

[@Jedduh]

😂 I was about to type Trove Chest when you pointed it out. TMB’s expansions are part of why I love that game. I don’t yet have the trove chest though.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

yeah, tmb is the biggest slippery slop in board gaming I have experienced....trove chest is nice, quality is a hair wonky though. Good to to see you again Jedduh

[@stormburns]

A reason why some expansions exist you did not cover: They seperated Branch and Claw from Spirit Island base to make the game cheaper and for ease of play. Probably the correct decision at retail and total sales. Same thing for Darwin's Journey Fireland.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Splitting it nets more money. That actual cost of adding branch and claw to base is relatively small and the return on that investment is minimal. But if they add the cost of another box the margin sky rockets. Generally lower price points in related goods also equal easy psychological upsells. Just so you know I am not pulling this out I actually work in this space for my day job. This is all a strategic decision to extract money. It is not out of good will. With that said I don’t think it’s wrong per se. Just good to know. I personally would just like complete games out of the gates with a transparent best way to play. I feel completely different about future content adds or patches. As always Storm I appreciate you watching.

[@stormburns]

@@Neon_Gorilla I understand and do agree with what you are saying and as a whole it's definitely an upsaleing scheme when a Kickstarter has 20 mini expansions. I'm just a get the base model kind of person, not the all in guy so I might be coming at things differently. I'll find a cheaper way to upgrade if I need to later on and find joy in saving money. I am amused by those who fall pray to getting the "all in" or buy cars new at full price and then complain they were "forced" to make that choice. As long as people make those choices, companies will continue doing it. Doesn't really matter if it's amoral or not and no real use in pointing the finger at them instead of pointing it at yourself. But an ideal world looks different I get that. I picked two games here where I absolutely agree with the publisher having taken the design they were presented with and splitting it. And that's because the base games are complete as is and the vast majority will not notice something is missing when they pick up the game in barns & Nobel because they like the title or cover. And they will maybe pick one over the other because it's 10$ cheaper and or the box being a more manageable size. Branch and Claw and Fireland add random mechanics and overall complexity and some more punishing mechanics that do not sit well with everyone. If you like it you can add it later on.

[@Warchoon]

​@@Neon_Gorilla It doesn't always net more money. Yes, putting expansion contents into a core box would be slightly cheaper (you don't need to spend money on box art, new rulebook, beta-testing with and without the expansion), and you can charge more for the contents, but there are different considerations: 1. Noone is sure that their game is going to become a hit. Why would you create an expansion if you're not sure the game is popular and can repay you the time & money investment? Usually, the designers have some ideas for potential expansions, but not completely refined until it's apparent a game is good and in demand. Note, I'm not talking KS games: Kickstarter sales follow a different strategy, where the expansions and embellishments are used as marketing, it's a different beast altogether. 2. If your base game becomes more expensive with expansion content, it might not achieve fame. High cost for the base game means fewer people would even consider buying it: you can easily opt to try some new game at $40, but you would think a bit before paying $60, and would definitely hesitate to pay $90 for a game. If expansion puts your 3. Expansions can add things that are not needed by all players, like introducing new player counts (5-6 player expansions, solo mode expansion etc). Not everyone plays Blood Rage or Inis as a 5-player game, those people wouldn't need extra contents, and they can ignore the expansion; some people hate solo modes - so you can make the core game with fewer components AND not as much testing, and box becomes cheaper, win-win. 4. Even if you assume that Core + Expansion is more expensive than just Core with expansion contents, it is offset pretty significantly by the fact that far fewer people opt to buy expansions at all. So, if 1000 people buy your core box for $60, and 250 people later buy your expansion for $30, it would still be inferior if, say, 900 people bought your larger core box for $80. And it gets even more pronounced the more expansions you add. It can become more profitable if your game is super-popular, but if it's not, and even the first printing is going at a sale with a huge 60% discount, you would simply lose money on expansions.

[@EngMadison]

With you 100% on expansions usually not being worth it. Now, expansion maps for Ticket To Ride, age of steam or similar are perfectly fine IMO. As someone who largely ignore kickstarter games, this isn't a huge deal, but I typically prefer to buy a new game than expansion.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yeah maps that easily integrate and objectively add to replayability are AOK.

[@brucebush5744]

Have to agree - superficially getting more of a game you enjoy should be a good thing. But in most cases expansions suck - on a spectrum from adding in more of the same that is generally inoffensive but underwhelming and not worth the money, through to adding in new mechanisms that bloat the game and make it less enjoyable to play. Honourable exceptions to the first (and only the first) expansions for Carcassonne and Parks.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

ahhh I haven't thought about parks in a long time, I loved that one for a while, never got the expansion though.

[@dcrbdh]

Dwelings of Eldervale has all the expansion rules in the base rulebook. The ONLY all in Kickstarter that I am glad I got was Cyberpunk 2077 gangs of night city. The expansions are modules rather than big add ons. It takes an okay game to really good. Other than that, I have never enjoyed all the KS add ons, but still get suckered from time to time.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I suppose the question is since the game was released with all the expansions did CMON due people dirty by carving up a game that should have been one core game in the first place. CMON might be the biggest offender of this. Glad you liked it though, I have thought about pulling the trigger on that one a couple times but the expansions and deciding if I "need" them are what have stopped me

[@dcrbdh]

@@Neon_Gorilla I've backed a lot of games on KS and CP 2077 is the ONLY one that made me think "Thank goodness I got all the stuff". CMON did the community dirty by making the good expansions KS exclusives and not including the 3d bases and drones in the core box. The one expansion that you could skip is the one that you can get in retail. The retail game by itself is fine, and if you play once a year its sufficient. If you play more you'll want more content.

[@sarumon17]

Yeah I think expansions serve some great purposes. For those with big game groups willing to learn lots of new games all the time, they are probably unnecessary, just try a new game. For those of us who can barely find people willing to learn any games, expansions provide a way to get more experience without the barrier of learning a “new” game.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Good point, what is your favorite example?

[@sarumon17]

I dune imperium and terraforming mars are my favorites, but I think 7 wonders /7w duel are great.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@sarumon17I still haven’t played 7 wonders. Bothers me everytime someone mentions it.

[@stenolebrretzen675]

In general, I have to agree that expansions suck, for all the reasons you mention. Mostly I think they offer less value for money than getting a new good game. Some expansions do extend the lifespan of a game though, and some add that little rework that makes the game playable again. You have to love a game a lot to maintain the organizational problem of an overexpanded game. The worst kind of expansions (besides promo cards) are the ones that transform simple, elegant and lightweight games into convoluted monsters. The resulting monsters are never as good as other games that were designed to be monsters from the get-go.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I totally agree there are some game that add an expansion that really ruin the experience. I have some sort of block that when I know I have spent money on an expansion and should be playing it but don't really want to I then go play another game. Everdell was my second "board gamers" game ever. Which is why I bought the complete collection but it is now a complete mess to try and table. It was a very simple worker placement tableau building game now is a Frankenstein with no happy path to fun. I wish a designer would design a new game with improved concepts rather than a bunch of expansions. I tend to like "fun new cards" that I shuffle in and don't come with but a couple sentences of overhead. They extend the game effortlessly. Thanks for watching.

[@NandoVP48]

just hate that they are priced almost as a full game when they incluede kind of half the content. There are some exeptions were expansion content is high production but mostly they seem like overpriced product.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yeah I have noticed that as well sort of crazy that the price is justified to be close to base.

[@s.d.d.6063]

Don’t agree with some or your arguments. Some games are good and sometimes expansions make them great. Rise of Ix is one of them. Everdell’s Bellfaire is another one. I would never play Everdell without and you can mix it with the others with no problem at all. Marine World made the impossible: making a masterpiece of a game (Ark Nova) even better (and it does fit into the base game box). So expansions don’t suck per se. Some do, some don’t 😊

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Valid…Not sure if you made it through the video (don’t blame you if you didn’t) but I conceded all your points.

[@marcosseven8872]

I introduced Splendor to a close friend of mine and he only wants to play Splendor because he doesn’t like to be learning new games. So I went on and bought The expansion that brings 4 modules. Now we play all the modules together and Splendor became a great amazing game. Basic Splendor would be too basic and maybe lack challenge for me as a more seasoned gamer. But the expansion made it shine. The expansion came after several years. Vindication has 3 expansions which are all very different. One makes the game in a sort of story-driven (I’m not interested, so I passed) , but the Leaders & allies expansion added a solo mode and a 2 small modules that I absolutely loved. The other expansion I have to decide if I want to. But really the game doesn’t need it. But adds cool stuff. So, I’m all for the right expansions! But good solid points there !

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Very interesting point about expanding a game for a person that doesn’t want to play/learn a bunch of games. I hadn’t thought of that angle. I could see that being done with something like everdell as well.

[@andyliebermann5244]

If you're only playing at two, splendor duel is fantastic

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@andyliebermann5244 my elitist attitude toward such “popular” games have prevented me trying it. Maybe I should rethink.

[@andyliebermann5244]

@@Neon_Gorilla Splendor is fine. Solid intro game, but I wouldn't pick it with more experienced gamers. However, Splendor duel has three different win conditions and has more interaction than just hate drafting. It's a really tight experience. Great game for two in thirty minutes. Definitely worth a try.

[@marcosseven8872]

@@Neon_Gorilla this happened to me with Patchwork. Three years ago it was sooo popular. I said I’ll give it a try. Played and did not like nor understand the hype. I gave it a second chance. Nothing changed. I gave it a third and didn’t change my mind. And because it was popular I sold it right away 😃. But Splendor is great. Will forever be in my collection.

[@OodlesanNoodles]

I struggle with expansions, in some cases they have provided some very fleshed out experiences. Bellfaire and Spirecrest for Everdell or all of my Smallworld expansions. Some expansions have made the game what it should have been to begin with (3000 Scoundrels: Double or nothing) and that for sure frustrates me. I feel like board games are suffering from the day one DLC that is found in gaming. It’s a disgusting habit that squeezes money out of us. It’s gross and I don’t think it’s going anywhere unfortunately.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Yeah that last point is exactly why I connected the dots on the popularity and prevalence to the pit falls. Obviously we are all addicted and when addictions make somebody money there will always be a supply available. I do think over saturation and economy impacts are responsible for the decline since 2020. So maybe going in the right direction.

[@KevinHernandez03]

This video should be renamed why my experience with expansion sucked. All these points touch more on the side of the overhead expansions add when getting them ready, because you talked about the actual gameplay of the expansions you yourself mentioned you like them. So while yes I agree that the experience of adding an expansion brings sucks that doesn't equate to the expansion sucking.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

It’s tongue and cheek

[@Neon_Gorilla]

It was tongue and cheek. More accurately it should be called I hate KS expansions and am conflicted with big boxes plus some other gripes but there are a couple examples I can easily point to as to why they need to exist. But alas that was too long.

[@darinherrick9224]

Most expansions area useless most of the time or make a tight game loose. Good expansions basically just give you more of a game that needed more, or complete a games that was incomplete. If you are getting bored cuz there isn't enough, get an expansion. Otherwise, skip it.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Good rule of thumb

[@LutinesqueLutin]

For ISS Vanguard, just the base game, here!

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I can probably safely sell the expansions and be fine as well.

[@MJ12hu]

Expansions often have higher ratings than the base game, because they are only bought by people, who already liked the base game. If someone left a lower rating on the base game, it's very likely that they won't buy an expansion, and leave a negative review there too. If an expansion has a lower rating than the base game, then it is most likely a bad expansion.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

True

[@kosterix123]

Expansions exist for profit with minimal effort. You can’t say all expansions suck, but you can maintain that you don’t buy expansions.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I didnt say they all suck.

[@joefell5311]

Chronicles of Drunagor is the worst with boxes, especially big boxes.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I didn’t even mention when there are multiple big boxes. That is a big red flag for me. Luckily I am not a huge mini guy so only Oathsworn fits that bill.

[@joefell5311]

@@Neon_Gorilla I just recently got back into board gaming again last year after years of playing RPGs and got sucked into big box games and miniatures because of the bigger means more mentality. But it just means less space in my house and ridiculous packaging. I mean love the games I have and the rpg elements (I'm a huge dungeon crawler fanatic), but holy crap, I'd rather have standees since I don't paint anything anyway and never will and cheaper components as long as the game is still fun. Dungeons of Doria got it completely right. Plus FOMO and being a completionist struck me multiple times.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

yeah this is all a slippery slope and if you have the completionism mentality then you will also need a storage unit :)

[@joefell5311]

@@Neon_Gorilla for sure! Great video BTW and you gained a new subscriber.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@joefell5311 thanks Joe welcome aboard!

[@phk975]

Yeah I started noticing that I stopped playing certain games I bought expansions for (Anachrony, Beyond the Sun, even Arnak). I like when they have light rules overhead and/or good gameplay updates (Ark Nova and Obsession). That, or focused expansions like the upcoming Arcs campaign expansion. Major exception continues to be Spirit Island for me, I can't get enough of that system.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

How many of the spirits have you played in the last year. Just curious.

[@phk975]

​@@Neon_Gorilla In person, 6! Counting app, roughly a dozen.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@phk975 yeah app helps. I wonder sometimes if I even need the physical copy. It’s so much easier digital.

[@nottingham2222]

You missed one of the most important reason. Many expansions increase play time needlessly.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I am sure you are right, none right off the top of my head that stand out

[@DeltaDemon1]

Expansions are an absolute must for nearly every game I've ever played and liked. These days especially, games are released with the absolute minimum which means no replayability until you get at least expansion. I usually play a game once, put it away until they come out with expansions. Games are essentially unplayable until the expansions comes out.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

which in my book is a problem

[@Hoellenseher]

Don't buy inserts :D To be a bit more serious: your problem is mostly about the biggest games with the largest expansions. There are some wonderful older games with just one expansion, that totally fits in the box and adds something great to the game. If a game gets too big by adding all the expansions, the expansions arent good any longer. Thats totally true. if the game came from kickstarter, the problem is not the expansion structure, the problem is kickstarter. Just dont buy kickstarter games (but maybe that's my eurogamer heart coping with the fact kickstarter changed the market)

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Can I print them?

[@Neon_Gorilla]

True my problem certainly isn’t about older games. This video is about recent expansion trends.

[@Hoellenseher]

@@Neon_Gorilla yep, there are few very good expansions that came out lately. Ark Nova had one of the best, cause it fits into the base game and doesn't overcomplicate the rules, just adds a little more replayability to an already highly replayable game. Forest shuffle has a "fixes the balance" expansion. I like the Challengers expansion a lot, but these games are by no means expert games, so hard to compare to your examples. I can't remember any other new expansion I enjoyed, just waiting for the Gaia Project expansion coming out in August

[@Neon_Gorilla]

@@Hoellenseher have you played the forest shuffle expansion? Didn’t think it was out yet. We played the base into the ground. I have recently gotten into Gaia not ready for an expansion yet.

[@Hoellenseher]

@@Neon_Gorilla it's on bga and I ordered it just today for my local group. Not sure if it's out internationally, in Germany it is. It shifts the balance into a more interesting state (at least in my mind). Gaia definitely needs no expansion, it's just a nice to have for someone like me who played around 30-50 games. No matter how good the expansion will be, it's just an add-on.

[@db8094]

if expansions suck then 2.0 / remastered / revisions of games suuuuuuuck 😂

[@Neon_Gorilla]

I agree. The most prominent “feels bad” that I bought this game again is Dune Uprising. I actually feels worse the better the game is because then you feel like you need it.

[@DeltaDemon1]

Well, you have discussed why you hate expansions and not why expansions suck.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Not sure of the distinction however if you watched the entire thing you will see that it is tongue and cheek, expansion in some cases are a necessary evil and they suck because they are used as a marketing ploy in concert with a psychological principle called loss aversion to get us to spend more money, when we don’t even know if we would like it. More accurately I should have titled this “most modern expansions that release with Core games on crowdfunding suck because they are merely a marketing ploy to extract money from consumers wallets”. Sorry this did not come through in the video.

[@dankfarrik8376]

You just sound like a guy that goes: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! You are not getting a seat at my table 🤣 All these issues are non issues.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

No idea what that means but I will give a seat at mine no matter your opinions.

[@kiarash8623]

16 minutes and 7 seconds of first world problems.

[@Neon_Gorilla]

Any critique on the entire hobby is a first world problem…great commentary, very thoughtful.

[@elmotoja]

Seems like it is more of gamers and addiction problem than the expansion problem. If you're playing a lot of games and you don't need expansions and YOU have all those problems (not the expansions), then solve this for yourself and don't buy as many. When there are people who love the game, play more of a single title and are not overwhelmed by additional rules or need to reference the core rules (because they simply know them), then an expansion that refreshes, depends or expands the game is for them. As simple as that

[@Neon_Gorilla]

fair, like I said the problem is publisher using fomo bait during initial campaigns to get you to buy something that should probably be rolled into the base game or not exist. You can't know if you love a game before you have to spring for the exclusive campaign content. Somebody pointed out a good example of this with cyberpunk, cmon locked what is now widely accepted as a must have expansion behind the campaign wall further propitiating FOMO culture that might have people back the game in the future fully before they know if they love it.