Bob Katz - music mastering and loudness Part 2

Top mastering engineer Bob Katz talks about the consequences of the past decades' unnecessary war of loudness, and illustrates how today's extremely high mastering levels degrade the quality of popular data-reduced formats, such as mp3. The session took place at DR Denmarks Radio, fall 2009. Enjoy these two educational videos!

[@Macarite]

Its cool because what he's talking about has actually been put into action by spotify etc; they use lufs now to analyse tracks as opposed to peaks

[@hectornunez1471]

I have all of this mans books. I absolutely wouldnt be where I am today without him

[@mikehorton1934]

I spent many years as a sound man for several local bands. I was told I had a good ear and was able to find the sweet spots in some of the worst venues. That experience, my friends, has not translated well into mastering and mixing. My gigging days are long past me and I find myself starting from scratch and re-learning everything. What started me on this adventure was when I pulled out some live recordings I did on my old 24 track and some demo tracks I did for some garage bands and pulled them into my DAW for mastering. After an hour or two of effort, I got up from my desk and began to self medicate. I have much to learn, but Bob's words are encouraging.

[@mikehorton1934]

***** I did purchase some Eareckon products (channel strip). It doesn't quite have the color of the desks of old, but I achieved what I wanted with the plugin. I still use my old 1176 compressor (been repaired at least 15 times). I should probably sell it while it's still functional and get used to using plugins in it's place.

[@mikehorton1934]

***** I will check out the reverb. I sold my Bricasti because I paid way too much for it and my gigging days have come to an end. I will need a decent reverb plugin real soon and plan on spending this coming weekend trying a ton of them. I'm not thrilled with the ones I do have. Thanks for the heads up.

[@mikehorton1934]

***** It was an earlier M7 that Casey (one of the founders) talked me into buying at a trade show back in 2008, I think. I was helping a friend outfit his studio and he told me to grab it for him. A year later, he still didn't pay me back for it, so it found a nice home in my rack. I fell in live with it, but rarely used it. I sold it last year to another buddy that just bought a couple of the M28 amps (that's a fine a piece of hardware) and wanted my reverb. I miss it, but it was a chore to incorporate into my workflow and now I wish I had kept it. Bricasti doesn't have a large product line, but what they do have is extremely high quality. Big boy toys.

[@atta1798]

Mike you would be surprised....you have the best nobody has...if you are comfortable w/Protools..take the Mixing & Mastering online course at Berklee online. If not take the first PT101/PT110....after those you will be ready ad be amazed how more ahead you will be....!!

[@mikehorton1934]

Wow. Old post, but thanks for the response. My chops have improved considerably since then, but I opted not to go with Protools (too expensive). I'm using Reaper and Slate's plugins and I'm getting as good, if not better results than I was getting 25 years ago with some of the hardware these plugins were modeled after. Many of my old mics have failed, so I'm trying Slate's virtual mics and I must say, I'm having a difficult time telling the difference. In short, my transition from old school to the virtual age is going better than I thought it would based on early efforts. Again, thanks for the response.

[@DidierEuzetComposer]

nice work ...

[@ninjaeditmusic]

The Fletcher-Munson curve changes shape depending the volume of the sound. It's a better idea to set you monitor amp to +/-0dB where it is most energy efficient (and turn down the volume going into it) because you get the best sound quality.

[@hedegaard8]

@1978Allanc Yep. Theres an old "rule of thumb", that when using EQ, you're supposed to lower the undesirable notes, not raise the desirable ones :)

[@unclesaboin]

I set my monitors like you said in this video: -20 dBfs RMS = 83 dBc SPL. I've analyzed some of my mixes with Sound Forge to see what the final RMS value would be and they usually come out pretty close to -20 RMS. Like you said, I can mix blind. When I master stuff myself, I usually have to fight with the client to keep the levels low enough so I don't lose too many dynamics. Everybody says "I don't want my CD to be lower than others." I never go above -14 RMS though.

[@TheBDD65]

Having spent some time investigating Mr. Katz' K-System proposal.... he considers -20 to be a reference point for high dynamic range music such as classical. -14 is a reference point for mixing typical rock/pop. Unfortunately since the industry demands slammed masters with max loudness (thus minimal dynamic range) it's fighting an uphill battle. Standardization of loudness standards may in fact help force the industry to change.

[@1978Allanc]

@mcturdlemusic Yeah Turdle i would agree with you there, its all about the balance , and not to forget the sound , the key is that there are no real rules , if its the sound you want then its right. That being said your right the balance of loudness and dynamics is essential , good point man. Also when you have the Waves plug ins , its hard to go wrong yee ha!!!

[@1978Allanc]

so many albums now are mastered with loudness at the forefront, it should always be the dynamics, if you want to hear a good record louder turn up your speakers, easy!!

[@nikdrown]

Totally agree with Mr. Katz on this. I already do my mixing to that standard but this whole loudness thing needs to be adhered all around. I think if it was there would be the appreciation for listening to music amongst people again. People might be more inclined to buy home systems in preference to casually listen rather than in the car or while exercising. While those methods aren't bad or wrong it seems less listen for the love of it anymore. I am afraid this is due to "convenience" medias.

[@meis18mofo77]

maybe it's because everyone has like 3 jobs to keep their absurdly high rent paid and literaly doesn't have money or time for a big audio system. Check your priviledge, ur probably well off in comparrison to most.

[@IIMANIXII]

this is genius... how can i achieve this in my home studio i am using yamaha hs7s with focusrite pro 24 dsp studio one 2 2.6.2 what are the steps and settings... ?

[@ShSwStudios]

@freezazoid You need to have a good compression so your second point doesn't happen. But thats happening while mixing. The Master comp. only brings the music together nicely. It's not for repairing mixin' mistakes! You need to find the middle. With nice dynamics but nice punch, too. Loudness is only for listeners so they think it has a better quality than a record thats not so loud. If you turn down a hard-limited song->AWFUL! Don't forget: too much compression is pretty dangerous for your ears!

[@ShynAwkward]

The loudness in modern recordings kills most of the emotional response we feel when we hear something expressive & dynamic (1940 - 2002). But who dares to take a stand in the 'POPULAR' music areana & re-introduce dynamics to a commercial release? It means your track on a varied mp3 playlist will be significantly lower than that of your peers. Can the average consumer tolerate constant variation in levels? Just a few things to consider.....

[@bl4ck0p]

What is the EBU system?

[@MikeeHollMartz]

Pardon my igmorence, but... What is the EBU system?

[@AndrewRaines614]

2:44

[@120percentcool]

Good ideas, bad solutions :( Also -20dB for a dynamic range is too much IMO, -15 is a good range and -10 even when your source is audiophile quality. Most of these are actually issues of bad recording techniques and equipment and we're at a point that actually recording something may not be necessary. And before being all "what about the feeling" it's actually quite easy to master dynamic range differently across the track...

[@mikehorton1934]

I agree. I think that -15dB about right. I'm noticing a trend, recently, with mixes having more dynamic range and not pushed as much. Hopefully the trend will continue. I just finished tracking a young country-rap band (I was skeptical at first) and their front man made it clear that when I sent the mix off for mastering that he wanted "air and clarity" and that it not be too loud for his Mom to enjoy. There is hope for our youth and maybe they will have some hearing left when they get to my age.

[@HabAnagarek]

Water FAUCET

[@555pontifex]

This gentleman is the pair of generative organs belonging to the carbon-based lifeform genus canis canis.

[@brunocoelhobass]

Most music is dead anyway, there is no more a recording industry, it is now "entertainment" industry.

[@atta1798]

Not really

[@Samwellah]

I can master a song under 5 minutes. Crank up Nuendo, import my wav track, dump ozone into my master out, load up the master preset, tweak the limiter and squash the shit out of it. Vuahla! Modern music ;)

[@mbbx5aw2]

I really struggle to understand Bob. I have all his books too and they're also quite difficult to read (when he's not cracking jokes). He can be circumlocutive. Great at what he does; terrible at explaining it.

[@z33twinturbo]

I love my banger music loud as shit (the kind that's supposed to be loud, dirty, nasty, and fucked up) but EVERYTHING else when it's over compressed sounds like DOG SHIT. Classical, Jazz, Hip Hop, Latino, Rock, Rap, Metal, Country, Blues, Folk, Indie... All of it is getting over compressed and sounds like shit. Pisses me off.