Boethius and the Last Romans

[@tribunateSPQR]

Do you believe that Rome really fell? If so, what was the decisive event that ended the empire?

[@StanGB]

I think it depends on definitions, that’s why this is such great fodder for academics. The political power certainly ended but as you pointed out the cultural impact was strong for centuries and remains with us even today

[@Boardwoards]

the hierarchy it was a part of is alive and well in direct lineage because of the "fall" which served to launder the authority washing off the dirty aggro built up over centuries allowing the same system to be brought back when the fingers quit pointing.

[@Boardwoards]

due to it being a planned movement there handily was no earnest pointable cause and so it's hard to label such as an event. jesus saying return all your money in one lump sum tax donation and then quit using it all together removing any value you'd have given up to be related to those you are communal with though... WELL that caused some stuff.

[@TobyTubeS]

Yes and no.

[@blugaledoh2669]

1453

[@dhm7815]

In "Alfred the Great" Eleanor Shipley Duckett says that given that he had stabilized his kingdom of Wessex, Alfred took to learning Latin. He finally translated 2 books, one of which was Boethius. He often found he needed a hundred words to translate one word of Latin. He concluded that Old English could not be a vehicle of civilization. As a contemporary of Charlemagne he saw Charlemagne's failure to teach the French to use Latin grammar again. So Alfred ordered his lords to learn some Latin and use Latin turns of phrase, proverbs and vocabulary as a court dialect that would filter down. He envisioned English as the most heavily Latinized Germanic language. English today is Alfred's dream. Alfred is the only king the English have called "the Great".

[@geordiejones5618]

That's a really cool fact that I never knew about Alfred

[@tribunateSPQR]

Very cool - Queen Elizabeth I also translated Boethius during her reign. I had no idea it was a tradition among British monarchs

[@keremkelleboz6959]

In Turkish, there are separate words for greeks living in Turkey and elsewhere. Greeks of Turkey are called Rum ie. Roman and others Yunan (derived from Ioninna).

[@abbaty]

You should continue capturing philosophy and the material conditions that produced them. You take on this Boethius is quite lucid .

[@tribunateSPQR]

thanks - more content like this is coming in the future!

[@polybius3609]

Bless this channel 🙏 almighty algorithm But rly, I'd love to see more videos about classical philosophy and the real world context around them!

[@tribunateSPQR]

Algorithmus Optimus Maximus hear our prayer… This was a fun one to write and research so more content on the philosophy of the Romans and its implications will be forthcoming

[@ProbusVerus]

Great video my friend! Would love more video on ancient philosophy from you. As an Orthodox Christian I think classical philosophy complement the faith quite nicely especially the Stoics and Platonists. I see no division between the two wisdom but an evolution. Much of the wisdom of the Church Fathers back then and our monks nowadays are connected with the wisdom of the philosophers. I can see the words and spirit of Epictetus in my priest nowadays when I hear about Divine Providence and how we must assent to God plan, how we should embody our faith with action and not waste time with beautiful words and rethorics. In seeing the threads of my faith connecting with the wisdom of ancient philosphers and in living according to those principles in a way I feel like a late-antiquity Roman in spirit.

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thank you! I appreciate that - the transition and evolution from pagan to Christian is so interesting to me because it represents more than a simple transferring of allegiance from one god to another, rather the conversion was a monumental shift that affected every aspect of Roman life, culture and thought in profound ways, and as you mentioned, the aspects of pagan thought that affirmed the faith have been preserved and passed down to all of us moderns in a way they would not have been without Christianity. I want to draw more attention to why this was such a meaningful and world historical shift because I believe that far too many today do not recognize its importance.

[@hugodesrosiers-plaisance3156]

Fascinating material, as always. For me it hits closer to home though. As I delved ever deeper in Roman History, I became very interested in trying to understand what it meant and may have felt like to be Roman - the nature of Romanitas. After reading Marcus Aurelius and Seneca, I kept going with St Augustine's Confessions and it's been a bedside book for me ever since. It sounds like Boethius' Consolations would be a logical next step!

[@tribunateSPQR]

He builds on their stoicism but takes it in a slightly new direction - I think it would fit in great with what you have already read.

[@hyperion3145]

There are still groups that identify as Romans today, they aren't usually what you'd think of first though: there are the Turkic Urum in Crimea, the Romaniote Jews in Greece and Jews of Rome (especially ones from the Roman ghetto), a few Aramean Melkites still call themselves Rum or Rume, all of them have legitimately ancient ties but aren't your first pick for a modern Roman.

[@TobyTubeS]

Super interesting - I had no idea about the Greeks on Lemnos in 1912.

[@Atipaj]

I would love to see more videos on Roman philosophy. Please make some

[@CBrace527]

seconded!!!

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks for the feedback - we will do more on the dimensions of Roman thought and philosophy soon!

[@joaopedrogameiro1408]

I would love to see more for this!!

[@tribunateSPQR]

we will be sure to have some additional content on ancient philosophy in the future!

[@gow2ilove]

Awesome video

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks! We’re going to do more on ancient literature and philosophy in the near future.

[@jakegarvin7634]

The romans saw fucking CANNONS bro

[@Karens-Zen]

I'd be delighted to learn more about ancient philosophy

[@CBrace527]

Appreciate the in-depth dive here and I also want more philosophy content! Cicero's Republic please!!

[@stevejohnson3357]

I read the book and it is remarkable. 1st, it sounds very modern even though it is in a style not used anymore. 2nd, it's clear educated Romans knew about the state of their civilization. And 3rd, reading between the line, he didn't think he was going to be executed. He thought he had a voice in court still in Cassiodorus. The book ended very abruptly after a discussion of free will (could the executioner not have waited another couple of hours?). A careful reading gives more than just the philosophy

[@tribunateSPQR]

To me, that is the most intriguing thing about ancient literature, not is much what it is actually saying, but the historical nuggets you get from the subtext. Makes it great for rereads

[@CelticLifer]

Loved this!!!

[@StanGB]

Really good video, want to reread it now (and also see you talk more about ancient philosophy in addition to history)

[@tribunateSPQR]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@darkclownKellen]

+1 for more philosophy please

[@android65mar]

Great narrative- love your videos

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks so much! Glad you like them!

[@f1nalgambit381]

Ty for the vid

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks for the positive feedback!

[@jbb4105]

Yes I want MOAR

[@tribunateSPQR]

Ask and you shall receive - we're adding more ancient philosophy to the episode queue

[@Ridcally]

Great video, as always! I wonder why renowned Roman philosophers often met their demise at the hands of state executioners. Though, to be honest, I don't know many Roman philosophers myself; Seneca is usually the one mentioned. By the way, your content is quite dense and packed with information. Sometimes, it feels like you're delivering it at machine-gun speed. Could you consider adding a few more pauses between your thoughts? It would really help the audience to absorb and appreciate the material better. You don't have to keep it strictly under 12 minutes?

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks for the feedback - I'll do more to space it out in the future

[@James-ll3jb]

Consolatione is among my alltime favorite books😊

[@Ancient__Wisdom]

More on the fall of Rome please!!!

[@MrJMB122]

I had to read them in my late Antiquity to early medieval Philosophy class. He's hands down one of my favorite philosophers. Especially with his metaphysics, when it comes to predestination and the free will of the person. He was a libertarian in comparison to augustin becoming a not compatibilist

[@richardarden4620]

Wish this channel had a discord! I've been searching in vain for years for a place to discuss ancient history/archeology that isn't run by ludicrous alt right weirdos...

[@tribunateSPQR]

I'm set to start one soon - been putting it off forever. I'll announce in a post over the coming weeks

[@chr0matic556]

great video :)

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thanks!

[@Rice_BaL]

please talk more about philosophy and ancient literature in general i would love to read more works from antiquity if anyone knows any specific works or authors let me know🙏

[@tribunateSPQR]

We will! Thanks for the input here!

[@screetstreet3232]

I LOVE TRIBUNATE🗣🗣🗣🗣 BEST ROMAN HISTORY CHANNEL EVER‼️‼️‼️‼️ (Above but in my native language; Afrikaans): EK'S LIEF VIR TRIBUNATE🗣🗣🗣🗣 BESTE ROMEINSE GESKIEDNIS KANAAL OP KZbin

[@tribunateSPQR]

Thank you so much!! Glad to know we have international fans!

[@MrJMB122]

I would love to see indepth video on philosophy. I would say more then material issue rich web culture issue that inspired them.

[@pinchevulpes]

When true genealogy meets 19th century nationalism.

[@nebojsag.5871]

Continuing on the theme of continuity, when were the last Roman elections held? There were still consuls and praetors and other magistrates under the Principate, but how were they chosen? Were they simply appointed by the emperor, or were some still elected, even in sham, rigged elections?

[@maxsonthonax1020]

Why should I read Boethius?

[@tribunateSPQR]

It's a great window into the transition from Pagan to Christian thought, and as such reveals very much about prevailing modes of thought in the ancient world at this time

[@cristobocarrin1746]

"And the Romans, where are they, now?" "You're looking at them, ****ole!" The Sopranos. We write in Latin alphabet, we use the Roman calendar, the Roman religion, so on and so forth. Claiming Roman-ness is not shocking at all, really. It's a fact of life.

[@Gawainer]

Yes more ancient philosophy!

[@tribunateSPQR]

Will do, thinking of a series on Stoicism and Epicureanism

[@Gawainer]

@@tribunateSPQR Cool!

[@Gawainer]

@@tribunateSPQR Was Epicurus an atheist?

[@racorker]

Bumped

[@thadeusgaspar224]

the greek orthodox christians of the middle east are still to this day called by themselves and by their neighbors "Rum", in countries such as Syria and Lebanon.

[@andreweaston1779]

The western empire fell. Once there was no more western empire. However, the Ostrogoths ruled, at least nominally, in the name of the eastern emperor. Life didnt change much in Italia. Until Belisarius invaded, and 20 years of brutal warfare devastated the countryside. The gothic wars killed the empire in the west. The sack of constantinople by the 4th crusade killed the empire in the east.

[@matthewct8167]

I guess that’s what people mean with Rome is eternal

[@Kuudere-Kun]

I just find it amusing that in 1912 people are more willing to take seriously the claims of modern Greeks to be Romans then the actual Modern Romans who are still speaking an evolution of the same language.

[@TheMagicDrPancakez]

Through the Middle Ages, a lot of Greeks in general strongly identified as Roman. Even the Greek language was called variation of Roman by them.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@TheMagicDrPancakez Yes I know but it feels weird to me that they self identified with their conquerors to begin with. I think the Heirs of Rome are far more those who speak Romance Languages.

[@rfkwouldvebeenaok1008]

​@Kuudere-Kun I'd agree with that sentiment, but I'd say that'd be a western Roman empire inheritance. I believe The eastern empire's inheritance goes to the Greeks and russians.

[@srdjansanadrovic4434]

It's really hard to understand from our perspective when we have an idea of nation. But to be a Roman is not to be of Roman nation. The concept of nation simply didn't exist. If you look Roman, you behave like Roman you were Roman. A person from Gaul and a person from Egypt had very little to nothing in common, but they would both proudly proclaim to be Roman.

[@blugaledoh2669]

@@Kuudere-KunThe eastern Byzantine Greeks were the successor of the Roman Empire. For centuries, the Byzantine continue identifying as Roman but adopted the Greek tongue. So many people just adopted the Roman identity.

[@IonutPaun-lp2zq]

What about Romanians ? In Romanian, Romanian it's basically Roman.

[@maxschreck4095]

Hmm, maybe I should read this? I did wonder why our world is so cruel when its supposedly governed by an all loving god? But also about hell. So far no Christian could sufficently answer this.

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

Roman spirit today? Russia and Vladimir Putin, no doubt.

[@bluemachine1025]

I doubt, I see It in America, the modern version or Rome.

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

@@bluemachine1025 That's like Nero believing he was great artist, but here the similarities end😄

[@pao5567]

Mfs discussing this as if romance peoples didn't exist

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

@@pao5567 Rationality, leadership, fighting spirit.

[@pao5567]

@@Breakfast_of_Champions the literal genealogical and cultural descendants of the ancient romans.

[@meganmccarthy8219]

Great video

[@tribunateSPQR]

Glad you enjoyed it