Why Ebike Power Ratings Are Lies - And How I plan to Fix it.

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[@DARIVSARCHITECTVS]

Wouldn't it be great is someone did honest reviews of all the e-bikes out there which provided actual power ratings?

[@magic.marmot]

Blip on the radar here. The torque specification is at the center of rotation at the motor. Newton-meters is a measurement of tangential force, so the reason the force is less with a longer radius, like when you use a lever. The marketing specifications are always shown in the best light. The thing I'd like to see are the torque curves for each style of motor, plotted measured force at distance. That would give you a "sweet spot" for each motor design to maximize their efficiency. Plus, I'd really like to see the results of that test because I do not have the resources to do such a thing.

[@chuyskywlk]

Would love to see this in collab with the folks over at Grin since this feels like a natural evolution/companion to their excellent motor simulator.

[@Area13ebikes]

They do lots of good stuff over there.

[@donvee2000]

Wow that's amazing.... Your channel is going to become the go to channel for so many things ebike. Still to this day you have the best video on puncture resistance products. To be able to dyno ebikes will also keep them honest. Would love to see how the Aerial Rider Grizzly performs.

[@3dprintingandairguns668]

I don't think the dyno can test the front motor. At least not both at once.

[@thea.m.p.co.467]

The audio industry has had the same problem forever. A "1,000 watt!" amplifier from one manufacturer may mean 1,000w peak for .0002 seconds before it's limited and has a true RMS of 250w and have tons of harmonic distortion the harder you drive the amp, while another manufacturer of a much more expensive amp may say "1,000 watts!", and have an RMS of 750w, a peak of 1,500w for .005 seconds, but a "program" rating (where it's designed to operate optimally) of 1,000w with minimal harmonic distortion even when driven hard.

[@ezl8002]

My Electronics Tech School teacher said for a accurate output the power supply would be heavy and in the old 1970s there were some exaggerated claims on the amplifiers being sold and it's worse nowadays! A fella wanting a powerful amplifier with low distortion would pay dearly for a TUBE Amplifier to help heat the house during the Winter to play music. RMS is the DC equivalent of power into a resistive load rated continuous. You are right on the ratings being exaggerated!

[@jojodancer1961]

WOW that's some crazy variances of supposed bikes of a feather ! Love to see what you discover in the coming vids , take care of yourself and always look forward to all your interesting vids !

[@alistairbarclay3116]

I would be very interested to see the whole story from unpacking and going forward

[@RickLaBanca]

You should livestream you unpacking/fiddling with the dyno. Just casual

[@SpaceCaseZ06]

It'll be a huge win if this dynamometer works for everything rated at over 750W

[@604cpr]

This man is about to call out the industry, the numbers will be interesting

[@livelrge1]

I haven't tuned in quite a while, but I'm so happy that you're doing better with your health, I know you've gone through a long road. God bless you.

[@davidhodgson977]

That was a truly great video, and there was a lot of food for thought. I want see it all please. I have been subscribed to your channel for years, so I will be looking forward to info on the Dino. Thank you, David Northern Thailand

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

True for most vehicles:( What you want isn't even done in the auto or motorcycle industries. A car engine has its torque tested at the fly-wheel, before the power loss through the transmission & diffs (sometimes as much as 30%). If you want to know actual, wheel, hp you have to get a dyno test.

[@glendavisl-p3w]

Sounds great, do it dude. The more information the better. Truth is power, look forward to the information that you get. Trike bike with no shocks thats going to be bumpy ride. no fenders plan to get dirty and a sore ass.

[@johngrubb007]

I'd love to see the process of getting the dyno into working order. It would mean more Area 13 videos which could only be a good thing.

[@murmur3966]

It is so amazing that you won that dyno. The smallest tire diameter dyno I saw, is for racing gocarts, but you may have options for smaller diameter motorcycle wheels. There are plenty of lower powered dirt bikes that would put the powers right where you need for testing. Way to go and I can't wait to see what comes next, plus because I'm new to your channel there are a bunch of interesting looking past episodes to check out. 🤘😁👍

[@Altema22]

Some aspects are pretty simple. Nominal power is just the maximum power level a motor will sustain continuously and never overheat. In scientific terms, the heat produced does not exceed the thermal dissipation rate at 100% duty cycle. At least, that's what industrial standards dictate. Manufacturers can pretty much make things up, and I've felt those differences between supposedly similar bikes myself. Peak power rating are even wilder, and like you say, you could pump 3k into a motor and it will be fine... for a little while! In most cases, a manufacturer will set a peak rating that can be used for a reasonable amount of time. Lectric does this with a 500 watt nominal rating and 800 watts peak. Others specify a very high peak number, and just hope you don't stay on the throttle that long. Torque on hub motors is usually measured by securing the wired side of the motor in a test jig without a wheel, and placing the measurement apparatus on the opposite side in line with the axle. Torque on mid drive motors is typically measured at the output shaft of the motor, after the reduction gears. However, some manufacturers cheat and calculate any extra gear reduction in the drivetrain to make the numbers bigger. Something that does affect torque directly, in the motor, is the windings. More wires per bundle means more torque, but less speed because it takes longer for EMF dissipation. Fewer wires per bundle in the windings means more speed, but less torque. How do you make sure everyone is playing by the same rules? By using a dyno, so I'm looking forward to seeing it in use. I thought about buying one myself, but would have to rob a bank to do so! The numbers will not bear much relationship to motor torque specs, as they will all be different depending on wheel diameter and gearing, but at least there will be a standardized measurement that applies to everyone equally.

[@kevinnashskitchen3517]

I expressed interest in this before in your comments .. I thought that would be a great definitive testing to shut up people and companies from talking up their product or purchase VS other bikes. 😂 If you had a chart of bikes with a couple samples of each product listed somewhere that we can use for references , you'd be a Rockstar 😂😂👍

[@StefanRandall]

I have been thinking about this lately. Newton meters of torque claims are literally, all over the place. It seems like they just pull a number out of a hat most of the time it’ll be nice to see actual specs

[@robertsommers9407]

I find your explanation here so refreshing from a consumer point of view. Starting about 12 full charges of my battery ago I started recording my Wh/mi usage trying to improve my range. My environment for example: 4 mile grocery run, encounter 8 hills of 6° to 10° grade, 230# rider, 70+ yo. I am concerned about both battery temp and motor temp. With my limited info and knowledge I have found if I maintain 10 mph uphill and 13 mph flat ground I can attain about 10 - 11 Wh/mi usage. That being said, I am really interested in hearing your analysis on Wh/mi and how consumers can benefit from this knowledge.

[@prophetzarquon]

Me: _{cries in 36Wh per mile}_

[@mitchbalko2838]

Thank you. I have been riding a Jansno X50 ebike with a 750 Watt Rear hub and it's Class3 and California has banned the use of a throttle to get up to the 28 mph max speed. The fact that now a rider has to sway and shift the body by pedaling, adds instability to the forks and handlebars. With pedal assist there is delay for power to kick in and delay of loss of power because of capacitive discharge. It's a making for disaster. I'm sure people have heard of death wobble. The problem with pedal assistance that power doesn't go away and if you get death wobble from vibration because of imbalance and being top heavy, you end up on the ground. This is a safety issue that somebody who made this law for California obviously has never been on a bike are any form of two-wheeled vehicle that has a motor. I had a moped when I was a kid that was powered with a little two-stroke motor. Petals in a 2-speed transmission built in the hub. The law is confusing because no e-bike is the same. Wheel size weight distribution and bike weight. The ebike I have is UL listed. Thermal protection in the hub motor, controller and the 48 volt batteries. The weight of the batteries and bike itself bring the bike speed down. The one thing about a throttle there is no delay when you let go of it it shuts off versus the pedal assist. State of California once you get insurance form too. Liability insurance. The liability for what the liabilities from the guy who kills you that runs you over. You can't get away now or you can't slow down like you used to. Dummies that don't ride ebikes made stupid laws and insurance companies profit. I wonder how many people have cashed in on their insurance for a wreck. I never heard of anyone causing damage on the ebike. Usually it would be somebody damaging the person and the ebike.😮

[@thomaswestcot7945]

Love what you're doing!

[@ecocentrichomestead6783]

There's also controller size. A 50a controller has a rated current of 25a? It has to do with battery amps, phase amps, and motor amps. They are different.

[@markburton5292]

Well one limit you are going to have on the watts besides heat is the type and thickness of the coating on the wires. At a certain voltage, it will have enough potential to jump through the coating, and once it does that it will short out. The heat has two things it does. One it can demagnetize the magnets in your motor. Two it can break down the Dielectric coating on the wire.

[@timothywarehime5956]

hey karen.

[@mr.monitor.]

The people who made the motor know this already. If you stay within the rating, none of these things are a problem.

[@markburton5292]

@@mr.monitor. True was just pointing out that you may not be able to get to some wattages because to get there you would have to use voltages that would just immediately destroy the motor.

[@mr.monitor.]

@@markburton5292 but think of all the fun you could have doing such things? 😆

[@johnw65]

Will 1000W of pwr deliver the same torque from a 500W hub as a 750W hub?

[@Area13ebikes]

Doubtful

[@bassw1758]

Yes It can, I have an older Speeedrid with a unbranded Bafang looking motor labeled 500 w, the actual motor in the case looks like it's between 500 and a 750w Bafang in size. 73 newton meters on paper, peaks at 1040w. Only tops at 26 miles an hour, but climbs faster then my 1000w Bafang C062 that peaks over 1500w. I don't know for sure but the motor gives the sensation of having a bigger gear reduction. So I'd have to say the answer is yes depending on the motor.

[@johnw65]

@@bassw1758, The 1000W peak 500W XP3.0 doesn't have the climbing ability 1000W 750 bikes in Jeremiah's hill climbing tests.

[@bassw1758]

@@johnw65 depends on the motor, some of them have more power up high, some more down low, and some is the way the controller is programed. 1,000-watt is much faster than my 500, but if you put them both in front of a 2-mile Long steep Hill, they're pretty much the same.

[@LetArtsLive]

I love what you do!

[@williambontrager2349]

They should base classifications based on voltage not wattage. 52 volts or less is an ebike, 60-72 is a moped, more than 72 volts is a motorcycle. A weight limit is also a solid option limiting bikes to 100 lbs or less, 100-200 is a moped, 200+ is a motorcycle. Lots more clarity here even with wattage variance bc voltage determines speed and battery tech really limits amps/wattage to a large degree.

[@mr.monitor.]

To replace a befang 620 1500 watt 160nm midrive motor with a reliable gas engine, you would need about 3.3 hp to feel the same torque even though 1 hp is = 750 watts. Ebike motors run much less often in most riding, while a gas engine has to stay on at all times and has very little starting torque. The motor runs 18 to 1 gear, so 160nm is at all rpm at the crank, not the shaft.

[@jdmvette]

Measure a qs273 motor which are supposed to handle 12-15kw plz 😊

[@michaelhorton6166]

Document EVERYTHING! Then sift through the footage after. I would expect the dyno to be working. The biggest problem that I see with the Vook is visibility.

[@MrLarry-gr8]

your excited, I'm excited! Hi I'm new to the channel and I really want to know how this dyno thing is going. It's been almost a year now, so where are we at with this? aany other videos up demonstrating whats going on? keep me posted. Hell man keep me personally posted if you could. I like what your doing. I just signed up for your mailing list news latters and what-not. Keep me posted.

[@Area13ebikes]

Watch this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWm4Y5eFiLiDp6csi=R_ECLTk7pPDc1H-s&t=170

[@MrLarry-gr8]

@@Area13ebikes Thanks! I been also interested in your podcasts. Is the ebike incentives program still in operation? Good thing is I qualify, and the bad thing is... I qualify. Might as well grab one while I can, right? Thanks again.

[@eonreeves4324]

I have a 500w hub, but I've been pushing 48v at 25amps (~1300w) for the last 1,000 miles without issue lol I never pedal because it's basically pointless. It takes off the line hard enough to lift the front wheel on a 27.5" mountain bike 😅

[@olsonspeed]

A huge bennefit for consumers, I expect there will be some embarrased manufacturers when the test results are compared.

[@Area13ebikes]

Agreed on both counts.

[@MarvinWestmaas]

... there are dynometers specifically to measure output of ebikes... pretty sure those were around a year ago as well. All our cop stations have them now, after political pressure due to complaints mainly about fatbikes which were 'to easy to illegally modify'. Sadly, they won't dyno my bike for testing, even when I explained my firmware allows setting max. watt the controller pulls from the battery.. which as you explained, doesn't mean I'm getting that same output measured at the back wheel. In fact I am pretty certain there is quite a lot of loss.

[@goldbearbunny4787]

1st take care of your self and it would be awesome to see all bikes getting tested 😊

[@VietPho]

Can you do a stess test / review on the CYC X1 Pro Gen 3 mid drive motor on a 52v system?

[@Area13ebikes]

That would be a great setup to dyno test.

[@Asoka-eb8ru]

I agree volt numbers and torque mean nothing. My friend has a 500 Watt ebike that claimed to have 52 volts and 16 ah with 80 nm torque, yet mine that also has 500 watts but only 48 volts 14 ah and 80 nm torque goes faster. A bike with 52 volts should go faster than a 48 ah bike but it doesn't always work out that. way.

[@eonreeves4324]

Probably comes down to the windings, liked how fast the motor can turn based on voltage input. Amps like how quick the motor reaches max rpm (torque) and then how much voltage limits the max rotation speed. I have a 500w hub and have been pushing 25 amps at 48v so 1200w for the last 1000 miles without any issues. I ride it 6 miles to work and home daily (weather permitting)

[@prophetzarquon]

Could even just be gearing; our 1440W Bafang m620 powered ebike, doesn't go as fast as my manual 3×10 speed 29er, simply because the m620 ebike's low gearing leaves the cadence\RPM flailing wildly at anything over 25 MPH.

[@prophetzarquon]

Can't wait to see an apples-to-apples comparison of >1000W power passed through 7-speed chain versus a belt, when they're actually under heavy load; also the losses from a cassette versus a Rohloff\etc hub shifter.

[@yournumberonepal]

Electric is tough, you need to know the battery output and controller output. The motor rating is mostly what it can operate at continuously without overheating or self destructing. But then, there are many ratings like kv, torque, and hp are all important if designing a system.

[@RPMac]

Without a doubt....Bolton is the most reliable source of information concerning ebikes.

[@Alttabbins]

How are you going to test dual hub motor bikes? I’m excited to see the results of the tests.

[@Area13ebikes]

Will have to test 1 motor at a time.

[@natterlynabob1472]

Some basic physics. To go from torque to forward force you must divide by the radius of the wheel. The smaller the wheel, the more force. There is a separate motor specification for max RPM. From that and the wheel diameter you can calculate the max speed. The difference between peak and average power comes from the controller, and not the motor. The controller must dissipate 10-20% of that 500 or 1000 W as heat. If it gets too hot, it dies. Generally the average power is about half the peak, but these should both be specified by the manufacturer..

[@3DPDK]

No. A combustion engine's horsepower or torque is rated/measured at the output shaft. The equivalent in an electric motor can also be a horsepower rating or torque rating. The wattage rating of the electric motor is the *input power rating* or total electrical power (current x voltage) the motor is capable of handling safely. The equivalent in a combustion engine would be the amount of fuel delivered to the carburetor. Although horsepower can be converted to wattage (1hp=745.7watts), the listed wattage rating of an electric motor (in the case of most e-bike motors) is a maximum safe input power rating and DOES NOT determine or limit the maximum drive force (torque) or speed (RPM) output of the motor. A 2000 watt controller will happily deliver 2000 watts of electrical power to a 750 watt motor. It will burn out the motor's coils rather quickly but it will go really really fast until that happens. A 100 watt lightbulb plugged into 220 volts will burn at 200 watts ... for about 30 seconds, but the point is that the listed wattage rating of the bulb doesn't physically limit the power being supplied to the bulb.

[@hepphepps8356]

I can assure you 100W light bulbs are 100W all day long at 220V.

[@3DPDK]

@@hepphepps8356 Only if it's rated for 100 watts at 220 volts. If it's rated 100 watts at 110 volts (American standard) then it will briefly burn at 200 watts if plugged into a 220 volt supply. *I assure you.* Learn two formulas - Ohms law, specifically Current = voltage / resistance and know that a 100 watt 110 volt, incandescent light bulb has roughly 100 ohms of resistance while it burns. Now that you can calculate the amps in both voltages use this formula Watts = amps x voltage.

[@johnw65]

How about if you took a rear wheel off the bike. Lock it up and apply electric power to it while holding a torque wrench on the axle nuts? Certainly, Amp/Wattage loads are measurable but translating that to HP at the ground will take some kind of dynamometer designed for ebikes? Certainly would be great info. But, it would take a law to force bike makers to provide it. And they'd still lie about it

[@Area13ebikes]

Yes for torque only that type of method could work. Hard to rig up to every bike but possible.

[@johnw65]

@@Area13ebikes My G/F T42 is allegedly 22A controller. @ max 54V thats about 1,188 VA/W which they claim is 80nm of torque at peak... 80nm is 59.005 ft lbs... Easily tested with a torque wrench, But, as you said, pwr to the ground will vary greatly depending on wheel/tire diameter... Many ebike sellers only list watts in their specs w/o listing Battery voltage. They seem to rely heavily on consumer ignorance!

[@LetArtsLive]

So are you going to have the first e-bike Dyno? I saw one at a motorcycle Festival they're pretty cool. Man I need that bike I don't know where I would put my left leg but I bet that would definitely tow my wagon up a big ass Hill! I'm kind of feel kind of sketchy about Indiegogo could go under? Or am I wrong these will be $5,000 not that I can afford it but December I don't think I'd be testing it when there's probably a foot of snow by Buffalo but maybe LOL. I love e-bikes. They got the naysayers they say blah blah it cost more money. Like what is it 50 cents to go 20 miles? And how much emissions does that save in New York City? I have never received anything as fast as when I ordered tubes from you I have noticed maybe it went back I haven't looked lately but there's hardly anything on there last time I looked a few months ago I wanted to get a air pump. I ended up with one that plugs into your car LOL maybe I'll buy a different one and give it to my friend.... I've been studying e-bikes since 2020. You're the man as far as I can tell you don't just sell your own you sell other ones people can afford. I want to get some brake pads which they didn't have at the place in Buffalo Bert's Bikes the cheapest one was $3,000 and you have to Pedal LOL my bike now is like I think $1,200 or less. What happens if we get in trouble with China? And they caught us off if we have a war where do we get parts then? I have two 20 amp hour batteries and two 13.5 I think I can go 80 miles or more. I still have one I never opened it was most likely my fault I could have sent it back to the place in California that makes batteries I forgot the name of it I better look it up because it's an issue oh fth. The lady said a 20 amp power would not work on my bike she was wrong! It barely fits under my seat. They say they have Panasonic batteries I never opened it. And went to a concert I don't drink much anymore afterwards I had a couple beers I fell off my bike I crashed in my garage LOL and I plugged it in for 2 weeks into a cheap charger I bought cuz I was retarded LOL and of course it didn't shut off in the bmms burned up or maybe it's because I fell off my bike I don't know because I have the batteries strapped on. If there's a fire it would be a good thing. I just didn't want to have to keep changing out the rail. But anyway they said it's guaranteed I contacted fdh I told the lady it's my fault and she could not answer what it would cost me or if it's going to cost me cuz it's my fault but sending it there so legal way is $60 so I didn't send it she couldn't tell me any information don't know if I'm the only one that had problems with fph I wanted something made in the USA! And they don't tell you it's $60 shipping till the end! Well the last one I got 20 amp power was $350. And I didn't open it up but it seems to work really good. I haven't ridden it in like a month because I have severe depression and I barely leave my house. I hope leaving it out in the garage can't cause damage cuz of the humidity and then being hot cold I don't know I hope not cuz I need my batteries because of that word I had a stroke and hard to remember things. Oh that's it range anxiety LOL I wish I could have it all in one battery and a little wagon to tow it and put my stuff on my bike. Here's a question is it better to put your stuff on your bike like your batteries and stuff or is it better in the wagon to cause less drag? I have an awesome Canandaigua wagon it don't make anymore but if they did they'd be selling them like wildfire you should make a decent wagon you be selling them like wildfire. I have carried a load of logs that wagon 3 mi from the campground Lakeside in New York. I beat the crap out of that bike camping riding over 6in logs I put it to the test like nobody ever did and I'm amazed it runs cuz I killed arikara ever owned LOL well I used to drink a lot. Not anymore I'd be dead if I ever drink I drink alone at home LOL this is hands-down my favorite ever e-bike Channel. I don't see pedals on it? Well because of the Ada law I could ride it anyway other people it's illegal without pedals right? I know I write too much as my brain never stops thinking with are not the same as other people but I appreciate you. I got plenty of my own illnesses I hope you get better

[@rufusirvin5279]

TWO THUMBS UP

[@jdr5445]

Could you please do a review of the Road Runner Pro by Voro Motors? If you already have, please send me the link. I'd be very interested to hear your overall opinion of this escooter. Thanks.

[@ericb.4358]

Interesting E-bike topic since my bike has TWO 750 watt motors so "1,500 watts" and two batteries plus dual suspension. (E-CELLS Super Monarch Crown) BTW, congrats on getting fitter.

[@waltemulryan5040]

I would love to see the dyno work

[@hgallegos915]

But you can connect something to the charge controller and get the readings there tho?....

[@PCBoardRepair]

ebike controller I made (as seen on my channel) had REVERSE and REGEN Brakes

[@prophetzarquon]

But then you are running a gearless motor that won't let you coast?

[@kevinnashskitchen3517]

Trikes are low.. Like a kids Big Wheel. Not visible well by traffic. So I'm not much of a fan.. You would need some flag on a pole sticking up to make sure people will see you way down low ..🤔

[@Area13ebikes]

The argument from the velomobile crowd is that if they can't see something 24" off the ground how do they see the lines... but there are some cool LED whip lights that work great for this type of thing.

[@samcuda]

Hello I would really appreciate it if you can answer a question i have on my Tesgo 1000 hummer, it said that it should reach a brief 1200 watt but it only reaches 999 watt not even 1000 watt. can you tell me if its the controller that is preventing it from reaching that mark? if so can i do a shunt mod to increase that wattage? Forgot to mention they say its 95 newton meters.

[@prophetzarquon]

Could be battery voltage. Need max amps _and_ volts, to hit max Watts.

[@plasmar1]

I think you're complicating things for watt rating; it's probably meaning the wire wounding/gauge/etc is rated for that wattage.... if you're using a bafang(not really used many others) it has the ability to show wattage currently used(handy as it helps optimize battery use) and specifically on my 500w front hub I've noticed it going from anywhere from 0w to 850w~(I don't remember exacts, but definitely over 500w) and the 2 displays have, have a green-yellow,-red meter gauge relating to the wattage(probably more accurately current).....I definitely see a difference between running my 500w at 500w vs pegging it at higher for too long as it drains the battery a lot faster(Wind is a typical reason) and have even ruined a generic cell 48v battery by holding it at 750w~ too long(I'm pretty sure it nearly tried to identify as a set of firecrackers)..... may also include gearing differences but I'm almost certain it's about wire gauge or some form of testing relating to the heat produced by the specific hub(as it's mass production probably like with computer processors it's possible to buy the occasional hub that is rated by 500w or similar that infact is fine at running 750w; common thing with chinese products, be bit electronics or diesel heaters :P)

[@johnhere59]

@6:42 why not put it on a Dino for a motorcycle, what your putting to the ground with any bike , you'll get good numbers, you can always use across the board.

[@gregoryaraganto9378]

power ratings are for who's asking, in my country authorities only care about dyno tests. So if you have a 1000w limit all that matters is maximum power at the wheel, torque x rpm, and maximum speed is 32kph, i can use a 350w 80% efficient motor at 48v25a, I can use whatever motor I want controller battery doesn't matter has long I understand motor power curves efficiencies etc, I can limit torque (phase current) and power with rpm, it's all that matters at the end. In my opinion a bad seller will sell a high peak power and hide behind rated power as a excuse or just sell a system capable of peak power with cheap rated components.

[@warlockboyburns]

I read that the rule is a hub motor will go 3 times it's rated power.

[@MrLarry-gr8]

bad rule. delete that info from your brain

[@warlockboyburns]

@@MrLarry-gr8 no

[@BorealisNights]

I agree the way e-mobility devices are rated is an exercise in futility. I'm a scooter rider and my scooter comes with dual 1250 watt motors, but the controller can pump through up to 3000 watts... per motor, so 6000 watts. So, in reality, its all up to the controller and what it puts out. Don't even get me started on how dumb I think those e-bike classes are(1,2,3), as anyone with even minimal skills can juice them up to whatever their pocketbook can handle. (side question... if you were to put my scooter on your dymo, I can see how you'd test the rear wheel, but I wonder, if you turn the scooter around to test the front, will the dymo be able to measure what will now be a wheel spinning in reverse?). Anyway, I see you've got one a month after this vid, with a title referring to your dymo, so I'm gonna hit that next. Oh, my scooter îs the Apollo Pro, in case anyone was wondering.✌🏼🇨🇦

[@mr.raiders7029]

Test the new aniioki a8 pro max 52v. I just got one and I love it.

[@ro63rto]

750watts max in USA? Y'all are lucky as us Brits are 'legally' limited to 250watts and it has to be pedal assisted not throttle.

[@g-whiz286]

If you live anywhere there are hills, it would be a waste of money.

[@Knapweed]

You should be fine for torque figures as an e-bike paradoxically puts out more torque than a motorbike. For example, a torque beast like a Harley Davidson Breakout 117 cu inch (1917 cc) puts out 167 nm of torque, roughly equivalent to a Bafang BBSHD at 160nm of torque. A Harley Davidson Sportster Iron 1200 puts out 99nm of torque which is less than a Bafang BBS02 at 120nm of torque!

[@g-whiz286]

At time stamp 1:02, right out of the gate. you stated, "750 Watts was the maximum power limit for electric bikes". This is incorrect! It may be the maximum LEGAL limit for a class 4 ebike, but is certainly NOT the maximum power attainable or available. I can attest that a 750 Watt motor does not get my lard ass up the hill where I live (it stalls out), but my 1500 Watt CYC mid drive does it with ease. Oh, and I don't give a damn what my government says I can and can't do with my ebike. I never go fast enough to garner any attention from the authorities....plus I'm old.

[@prophetzarquon]

Well yeah, not to mention that most "250W" ebikes from the high end brands, can put out ~1100W peaks during a hill climb.

[@ChristmasEve777]

I don't think an electric motor can endure 6 times its rated power for several minutes, as you said. That's pushing it. It would burn itself out before that. I guess you could try that test with a liquid cooled motor 😄

[@Hproawesome]

The range is definitely a lie.

[@CharlesNewkirk-lb6uh]

Yeah all the Chinese companies lie it's frustrating but true!

[@uuzd4s]

Watts are a measurement of Energy while Torque is a measurement of Force. Force is a measurement of "moment", IOW, it's a measurement that's instantaneous and doesn't happen over time. Force is the capacity to do work or cause physical change; energy, strength, or active power. Unlike Force, Energy is measured over time. Energy is measured by the amount of Work you get from it. That's why Watts can be directly converted into Horsepower, Joules, BTU's etc. Energy can be "potential", kinetic, thermal, chemical, nuclear, mechanical and comes in many other forms. IOW, Energy is the quantitative property that is transferred to a body or to a physical system, recognizable in the performance of work. Work comes from Energy and Energy depends on Force over time in order to even exist. This entire E-Bike phenomenon that is Exploding worldwide is relatively ungoverned at the moment but that is all going to change very quickly. Because what laws that currently exist regulating E-bikes are so easily confused and are vague, the E-bike manufacturers are taking advantage of this and making e-Bikes that can easily be "broken" out of their production class by a simple programming tweek. That coupled with People behaving like People do is going to bring the Federal and State Lawmakers in to regulate the industry. Just the other day I was out on a Bike/Hiking trail on my legal class 3 E-Bike and along comes two teenage kids on 45 mph E-bikes intentionally scaring people and running people off the trail. I saw what they were doing up the trail a bit and I didn't budge when they tried to run me off trail. The kid went off into the weeds and his friend stopped to help. I waited around the corner thinking they'd try it again, which is exactly what happened. As soon as they saw me stopped on the trail they stopped and then started shouting threats at me. I just waved at them to come my way which they never did. So I figure some rich parent gave their teen kids a couple of high power E-Bikes and just let them loose on public trails. They may as well have just been om motorcycles, they were going that fast. Yea, the Regulators are coming.

[@aerofart]

You don’t understand Newton-Meters (Nm). Something that produces 80 Nm produces 80 Newtons of force at 1 meter. That translates to 160 Newtons at half the distance (1/2 meter) or 40 Newtons at twice the distance (2 meters). It’s a scalable unit of measure, Watts works the same way. 100 Watts can be 4 Amps at 25 Volts or w Amps at 50 Volts or any combination of amps and bolts whose pruduct results in 100.

[@dreamkiss4u]

so what about ebikes that are 8kw -24kw motors?

[@g-whiz286]

24kW sounds like a lot, but it's only 32 HP, which is about he same as a small (light framed) motorcycle.

[@prophetzarquon]

Those are emotos, not ebikes, both functionally & legally; even so, yeah, they're peanuts compared to gas bikes half their weight.

[@dreamkiss4u]

@prophetzarquon1922 they are not emotos the suron and the others similar to it are not emotos just bikes with upgraded batteries , an no one cares about gas bikes they been around before you were born... the point is so that you don't have to pay for registration and tags and all that and still get around quick while you have fun doing it anywhere... and you can't do that with gas version motorcycle riding it having having to pay fees and permits and only in certain places that you can ride on.

[@prophetzarquon]

@@dreamkiss4u If they exceed ebike specs, they are an emoto, both legally & functionally. I like to refer to ≥29MPH ≤45MPH models as "mopeds" because that is the regulatory _and_ performance bracket they fall into.

[@martinschwartz7342]

What would one do with a Vook? It is of street legal.

[@Area13ebikes]

Ride it.

[@anthonykinneen8443]

Used something like a treadmill to help find the speed, just an idea

[@EBikes420]

I live in Canada and 500W is the allowed max power, but my e-bike actually gives out close to 1,000W

[@neogen45]

I also live in Canada and I run a 1000 watt motor which I've down-tuned to be "legal". It may only push 500 watts now, but is it really legal? No idea. With factory tuning it is capable of outputting 1500 watts but they also sent stickers for their 250 watt motor. How would they even enforce these regulations? I mean sure you could look at the serial number on my motor and find out it's a 1000 watt nominal, but at the same time it's been down-tuned and I could even do a controller swap on a 500 watt motor and have it pushing 1000watts. I feel like the speed limit is the only rule that they should really be using as it's the only realistic measurement that's going to have the same results on every build.

[@g-whiz286]

@@neogen45 - Speed is the only way you would ever be challenged by the authorities. They cannot identify the power rating of a motor unless you are doing something that makes it obvious to call attention to yourself - like speeding. If you don't exceed the speed of a human powered bike, they will likely not even notice you. They've got better things to do.

[@neogen45]

@@g-whiz286 My thoughts precisely. Why do they even have wattage limits in the regulations? Just seems silly to me if there's already a speed limit regulation that states the motor alone can't push beyond 32km/hr.

[@prophetzarquon]

Yeah, it's insane to impose a _maximum_ power-handling rating; actual safety regulations, impose _minimum_ power-handling, for fire-prevention reasons.

[@rifetechnology]

NAILED IT!

[@fraserthomson5766]

The French government have a 30,000 Euro fine for anything over 250w or any ebike modified to go faster than 25km/h (15.5mph). Food for thought, as I recently took my 750w, 30mph to the Normandy beaches. Wondered why we were getting weird looks from folks.. Luckily, we weren't stopped by the Gendarme. Phew..

[@Bigdog1787]

Ya when going to different countries you better know their rules as you can get in big trouble if you don't.

[@fraserthomson5766]

30k and up to 1 year jail though? There's no fine for murder.. @@Bigdog1787

[@g-whiz286]

250 Watt limit? That might be enough to propel a 100 lb person (slowly) on level ground with the wind at your back, but one would be woefully disappointed in any other conditions. As long as you don't make an ass out yourself - speeding, burning rubber, doing wheelies, etc., it should not matter how much power you have "available". Don't call attention to yourself.

[@fraserthomson5766]

Lol I agree, de-badged with fake 250w CE UK stickers, it's dumb and ignorant of the tech, especially since 250w motors can handle 1200w.. @@g-whiz286

[@RPMac]

Your the best !!

[@mashvids1018]

With a watt meter built in to most displays you can also see how much watts on average a human pulls on an ebike I was able to get 1200 ish watts reduced from pedaling from a draw of 1800 ish so when they say that 250 watts is the average professional cyclist they are hyper under exaggerating the capability of humans in general I'm not a professional cyclist and I'm not 5 professional cyclists I tried to see what 250 watts was and it felt like pedaling at a slight pace just applying slight pressure

[@tarstarkusz]

89nm of torque is 65.643 foot pounds. There are cars with less torque. The VW bug is a good example.

[@mr.monitor.]

160 nm with 1500 watts is enough to do anything you would want to do on a bike.

[@Area13ebikes]

It's a start. 😄

[@g-whiz286]

It will barely get my 400 lb. frame up the 17% grade to my house. Oh, it'll do, just very slowly.

[@mr.monitor.]

on a midrive in the lowest gear? I am under 200 lbs so I'm sure that makes a difference. I can't make more than about 300-350 watts myself and even then probably for only 5 minutes at a time.

[@prophetzarquon]

Yeah, I'm not even overweight for my height, but I put out more than 300W just walking up stairs. 350W is about the _minimum_ I need to put out, to stay balanced up a hill.

[@trueheart1372]

see it all love to see this

[@bobbybecker80]

You're in CA, and should know those trikes are legal only on OHV trails and race tracks.

[@Area13ebikes]

Depends on the power settings. Could limit to 30mph and register as a moped too.

[@RickLaBanca]

That vook is kickstarter so looks sketchy. Quite a risk.

[@Area13ebikes]

Always a risk! I think they'll come through but you never know.

[@williamaungleyraud]

Worst come to worst you can sell it and recoup some of your money 😎👍

[@notsoanonymous2458]

If you could ebike/scooter manufacturers to stop lying about range I'd really be impressed.

[@EmreDemirkayaLoves]

Netherlands MAX 250 Watts on the motor .... What a JOKE

[@rexluminus9867]

Most escooter & ebike ompani4s are very dishonest,conning liars...etc.Plus U fill out the rest.Its about sales!!!😨🤡🤑😎. Respect to a few = less than 6!!!😮😮. Must get tough on them once and for all. Thank you for the upcoming inspecters...etc.ASAP.

[@EdwardTobicoe]

EMMO are crooks. Sold my a bike with a defective 15ah battery. Warranty says a defective battery will be replaced. I still have the battery. 5.7ah now. Ant they say they're not sure its safe. Crooks i tell you.

[@ericb.4358]

Why not jus pay for some motorcycle dyne time and do some pulls with an e-bike?

[@Zetler]

Higher numbers are better.

[@Jon-da-bad]

Cheep ass way to work that out. Weight of bike and rider. Angel of a hill how fast to accelerate from (time) from 10 MPH TO 20 MPH. I did this to tune cars.

[@ecocentrichomestead6783]

Peak power is useless as tits on a bull. Rated power is what everyone is wanting.

[@songsyluc]

scary to know my Eboard has 10hp =P

[@prophetzarquon]

7500 Watts?! Never seen that on a board

[@songsyluc]

@prophetzarquon1922 plenty of higher end boards has 10-14k watts

[@consaka1]

Lectric

[@LetArtsLive]

I don't recall if you said you gotta please like and share my videos that's what I'm going to do cuz I think it's good. I'm going to tell them if you buy an e-bike buy it from him because he will service it and I know you could talk to a human unlike I have to text China and wait till the next day or 3 in the morning. I should carry a copy of that Ada law in my wallet so I can show them if someday I have a problem with a cop. I wouldn't even smoke or drink riding that bike I'd be dead. When I first got the ecotric hammer I rolled down my Street I had no clue how fast I'd be going I couldn't stop at the end and I ended up in somebody's yard yelling ouch cuz that hurt like hell but it was better than hitting a van I learned the hard way you should test them out in a parking lot or something it's not that easy to turn with those giant tires in the handlebars but I'm used to it now happy Viking

[@gerardshaw824]

FFS

[@maxhughes5687]

FEDS: Less than 750watts. KZbin BS: 750watts or less. Ypu tell the cop ypur bike is 750watts, be will ticket you for no TAG.

[@zeljkozerjavic7008]

I just need 2000W motor declared as 250W, I do not want testing or anything else just raw power to go uphill, I do not need speed do not like wind into face but also do not want to walk up hill on ebike. I do not want to KNOW ( WASTED TIME) anything except that ebike can go 35km/h uphill 11% CONTINUOUSLY with gross weight 200kg in summer 40deg C.

[@zeljkozerjavic7008]

Lies start with law, total corrupt nonsense. I need 25km/h plus uphill, not possible by debile lawmaker totally uneducated.. I do not care about any data except that in pass3/5 can take uphill 15% with speed 30km/h plus, torque on flat you need 100 to 300W.