BOOK COMMUNITEA: ST MARTIN'S PRESS BOYCOTT IS OVER...OR IS IT? [CC]

[@JessOwens]

FREE TOYS OR GIFT CARDS FOR TOYS! Everyone who signs up to my giveaway with @bellesaco wins something! www.bboutique.co/vibe/jessowens-yt

[@over-caffeinatednerd]

thing is, a spicy book + sexy toy + some chocolate or something would be a great subscription box (for those that want that) but to not ask those on their PR list if they're okay receiving 18+ items is an oversight on the marketing team. I don't think they did it specifically to stir up controversy - I don't believe anyone on that PR team thinks that far ahead (or thinks at all)

[@moustik31]

That part. I feel like they tried to be "sex positive" by considering them as any regular items, when one of the main tenets of sex positivity is consent and bounderies. Yes, sex shouldnt be demonised as it is under patriarchal cultures, but that doesnt mean, we should course correct extremely by plastering it anywhere, regardless of the context.

[@transformingwave]

one of the (many) things that i find frustrating about the CMQ promo box is that they're an author who already has a huge following-- they're a guaranteed purchase for a huge amount of people. the marketing money spent on this book (including the toys especially) is just wasting marketing dollars on something that's already going to sell itself by name alone, when that time, effort, and money could be spent promoting other authors, particularly debut & BIPOC authors, that really need the boost.

[@chellyfishing]

(Rocking back and forth in my creaky chair on the porch) I remember the fairy D soap… I was there for it… all those years ago... Anyway. I’m not saying there aren’t valid reasons to be bothered by the unsolicited toy, but when people start reaching for very specific niche “what ifs,” it sounds a lot like people disliked something and can’t articulate why and so are latching on to anything that allows them to feel righteous about their reaction. Again, it’s just this need to frame anything you have a negative feeling towards as actively causing harm even if it’s at worst pretty tacky and tasteless. Idk, people can feel how they feel about it, I’m not trying to police that, if it bothers someone and they aren’t okay with it I wanna validate that, I don’t know that I would have loved it either tbh!! But we can have those feelings without justifying them through extreme hypotheticals. I think your example of people sending out alcohol without warning is worse honestly. I’m shocked there’s been ANY movement on the boycott, it feels like it’s been 84 years. Pretty appalling it’s taken so long.

[@abookishmess]

I agree that it feels a bit theatric in linking being cause for DV. Perpetrators of DV don't need an excuse, and there's not always clear triggers. I just think it's not a big deal simply say not for me and I think it's reasonable to opt into something like that.

[@violettefemme21]

I feel like some of it comes out of this weird need to justify everything and everything being so black and white. Versus just allowing a recipient to say “it made me really uncomfortable to receive an adult toy without being asked” and people to just allow that and not challenge it. Cause a statement like that is fine yet I assume they’d also be dragged for it by people who don’t agree instead of just some agree some don’t. It’s not the end of the world. They’re allowed to be uncomfortable with it. It’s fine if it’s something that is a faux pas. It doesn’t mean it’s a HUGE DEAL.

[@Sarah-hc6kj]

Only thought is I wish Bellesa would stop saying they give out gift cards. They give out coupons.

[@thisisnancybot]

You should ask people before sending a sex toy, or at the very least give them a heads up so they don’t open the box in front of their kids/parents/etc. No need to over dramatize the situation though. Not everything is this giant terrible thing.

[@HungryEyes-sl3mu]

Thanks for the update on SMP boycott, I started seeing some reviewers mentioning the Divan Rivals sequel and was getting the feeling that SMP was never going to address the issues brought up

[@inkylabyrinth]

To me, demands of a boycott or strike cannot be met only with a statement. Their statement is not legally binding, nor proof of any actual change--so far it's just SMP promising they will do better. I personally will continue to boycott until I can SEE in the community that they are actually implementing these promised changes.

[@michellecgb]

That’s what I’ve been thinking. R4A should’ve said *they* weren’t to boycott anymore cause *they* were satisfied with a statement, but declaring that “the boycott is over” was irresponsible. They’re not the authority.

[@ChronicleV]

@@michellecgb If they're not the authority, then who is? The community looked to them for guidance, reposted their socials; they were propped up by the community as the face of the boycott. If leen, the creator who started the boycott, also isn't the authority (she has said this), then why is her voice above all other Muslim and Palestinian voices who were volunteering R4A?

[@michellecgb]

@@ChronicleV I don’t think there’s an authority. They helped organize, but they’re not the end all be all of the boycott just because they decided to be the face of it, whatever their intentions were. And they clearly don’t represent every voice. It’s your choice whether you continue to boycott or not and whether you continue to engage with the rest of the community that’s boycotting and the affected people who don’t think the demands have been met by a statement. It wasn’t R4A’s place to declare that it was over.

[@KittyxKult]

I think the vibe incident was overblown. Like not a good idea to send sexual items without consent but you can also just throw that out if you don’t want it. I feel like that incident has already been overshadowed by the serial-killer-glamorization and the review scammer

[@skellingtonMCR]

Based on the information you've shared, it does seem like the demands of the boycott have been met. However, there's a distinct lack of clarity from both St. Martin's Press and R4A here that's giving me pause. Why did R4A not look into whether it would even be legal to meet their demands in the first place? Why did neither R4A nor St. Martin's Press even really let us know much about progress on the issue? Why did this take nearly a year to resolve? I also understand why members of R4A would want to stay anonymous, but they do make themselves difficult to trust when we don't really know who any of them are. It is also odd that the person who originally called for the boycott was never a member. Also, how are we going to get updates on what St. Martin's Press has been doing to improve in the future?

[@ashleysupinski2544]

As a pug owner, I LOVE Nigel ASMR. I'm HERE for the snoring.

[@alexlemaire8513]

reminds me of the recent beef between an influencer on tiktok and receiving cocktail/mocktail mixers and getting pissed about it being "without her consent". Her team approved it smh. people are blowing this out of proportion especially with all those what ifs. its not like its a giant dick shaped soap in your face either, if you don't read the label you cant even tell really. its a vibrator not a bomb lets chill a bit

[@rachel43274]

I do think its strange that R4A fell apart and disappeared the way they did, it does make the whole situation feel less finished, also think its odd part of the demands were things that couldn't legally be met, not to excuse SMP for being so silent for so long either but.. overall strange how everything went down

[@rachel43274]

Also the controversy on the pairing press box is way overblown, so many people have been hating on that book essentially for it being exactly what it promised to be, a hook up tour of europe

[@self_appointed_wisdom]

I'm wondering what took SMP so long to even release a statement...was it so hard?! 😅😭

[@TheEarbudBookworm]

I always love getting this kind of information from you. I love that you give the facts and input some opinions, but you have information from both sides and lots of matter of factness.

[@Emily-fh8en]

I've seen people comparing vibegate to getting an unsolicited dingdong picture... which seems... a bit re'dick'ulous. Not to mention it was a bullet vibe and not a big ol' johnson or something and the packaging just said "personal massager". I also feel like if this had been from a cishet author writing a cishet book from a different publisher people wouldn't bat an eye.

[@tiffanyjade6171]

Nah, I don't want a sex toy sent to me by ANY author. I'll buy my own if I want that thx

[@reinventingmelissa2061]

I LOVE that you promoted those sex toys without the slightest blush. I'd have WANTED to do that (because I see zero wrong with them), but my cheeks would have been beet red anyway. Good on ya!

[@TheEighthAct]

girl i hope bellesa paid you a million dollars for that 4 min ad read

[@Jack.mandora]

Oh gosh the soap! I completely forgot about that.

[@incuriousgaze]

I think shame could play a part but I don’t necessarily think that’s the whole picture. I think it’s really just about gaining informed consent. When you sign up for a PR package you’re not signing up to be sent sex toys. Someone might be cool with a smutty book but doesn’t want a sex toy. Idk I just think it can be really violating to receive something like that if you weren’t at all planning for it. And just because some ppl might be cool with it doesn’t mean that we should ignore others feelings yk? Idk. It’s hard to put to words but I really just think there’s a way to keep the book a surprise and still let people know what it’s going to be adult content

[@abbeyroche2983]

Yes I agree so much with this. When you sign up for a book box that doesn’t give them the right to send you literally anything they want just because you provided your information.

[@jessicadoneganreads]

With the spicy book package I just think we don't know what we don't know about other people's lives and generally it's in bad taste to send something so explicitly sexual without specifying and getting consent. With the SMP Boycott, I'm genuinely surprised they ever chose to respond at all. It's my understanding that it's illegal to comment on a specific employee and to be honest, that employee was emblematic of a larger problem. Like that one person said some shit, but if it was only one person I don't know that a boycott would have been valid. I like to pretend that one person did all the new training and learned better and part of them learning better is not going out on social media and sharing everything wide with the public. I suppose I'd have liked more specific rules and regulations to help garner a diverse group of ARC reviewers and I'd have liked specific welcoming protections or invitations laid out. But what they said covers the bare minimum of what was asked for that could be delivered upon.

[@amotleyartwkatherine]

Thank you for the update on this boycott situation.

[@lydiawalker0714]

These statements are probably the best results we'll get from SMP. We won't know for sure if they'll uphold these promises until an employee/influencer shares their experiences in at least a year from now. Changing a workplace's culture takes time. I don't foresee myself reading/reviewing any SMP book anytime soon because 1) I only have two of their books on my tbr and 2) I'm a mood reader. Though my actions won't immediately change, I'm no longer participating in the boycott since I'm unsure any other end goal is feasible at this point.

[@Megan-gy4ly]

Wow I never thought I'd see the day where my boring ass job in IT Governance, Risk, and Compliance is suddenly relevant to booktube.

[@mplbooks]

I feel bad because I haven't actually been looking at which imprints the books I've been reading and reviewing were published under... I had been doing that (I used to track it in my reading spreadsheet) but stopped tracking it because it didn't feel like important information, particularly since I don't receive ARCs from publishers. But maybe I should go back to paying attention to that info. Also, is that Nigel snoring? I thought there was a jackhammer outside your house!

[@Free_the_bookshelf]

Nigel in the background is such a vibe

[@LectoraEstherica]

Like the snoring/asmr of Nigel got me smiling the whole video 😂. Alexis Hall (Boyfriend Material) annaunced not long ago that he wont be working with the editor of his Bake off trilogy and others titles any more because it wasnt as supporter to lgtb+ authors as to the white cis, and i dont know if maybe it was from St Martin Press!

[@heyimsasa]

i'm personally continuing the boycott until there's something actionable takes place on the employee's part; she can't be allowed to just spew violent zionist hate speech as she pleases, especially being one of the faces of smp. i'm only withholding my boycott from bipoc lgbt+ authors as they've been hit the hardest by the backlash. also i hate how members of r4a continue to mishandle everything, especially the aftermath and pitting the public against leen. i've seen some really nasty mean girl comments on their end 😬

[@pig3292]

Sleep well, Nigel 😌

[@thejenmath]

Oh my God, Soapgate took me back! 🤣

[@Jax-jx5uu]

"like, bitch, i'm dead" hhahahaha love it! congrats on the fab collab!

[@MichiruEll]

I'm gonna be unpopular here: I don't think it's okay to hold a company accountable for the opinions of an employee, because I also don't think that it's okay for a company to fire an employee for their personnal/political opinions (unless they make their coworkers uncomfortable or it affects their job). It doesn't matter if it's stuff I agree with (fighting for abortion rights), disagree with (like in this case) or am more neutral about (animal experimentation for medicine), I just don't think it's okay to fire someone. Similarly, it's not okay for an employer to control what employees can write on their personal social media. Is the person a shitty person? Yes. But there are a lot of shitty people in a lot of companies. We should hold companies accountable for what they do (killing the planet, using slave labor, deforestation), not what their employees do outside of work. Rant over. I know, unpopular.

[@de5072]

Yes and no. I do to an extent agree. Now I don't know the full situation so correct me if I get things wrong or misunderstand. If it's a personal social media account post whatever you want. But if you still attach yourself to your company on your personal account you should be held accountable. Because now you are representing the company even in your personal life.

[@moustik31]

I disagree. It's in every companies advantages to present an inclusive image, as they want everybody's business, they should make it their mission to fight against discrimination and bigotry. Racism isnt an opinion, it's bullying rooted in bigotry, that given the history of the US, usually led to persecution. You seem to forget, why cultural norms changed about tolerating racist discourse in public and how hard BIPOC fought to be recognised as human beings equals to w. people. Everybody in the US should have learned at school, that bullying/racism is wrong. So these firings dont exactly come out the blue. I bet, every employee's contract have clauses about politeness and treating others professionally with respect. Companies are already lenient enough, tolerating "locker room" culture, let's not give them inventices to do less, when they should obviously do more.

[@christinec28]

Yeah, I think everyone who lost their minds about the s3x toy were overreacting. People out here reading ADULT books with ADULT content and clutching their damn pearls over a toy 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@Rebecca.42]

Yeah, just throw it out and no one will know. Calm down 😅 Especially if they usually read smut. Baffling.

[@tiffanyjade6171]

@@christinec28 just because people read smut doesn't mean they want sex toys sent to them... I read smut and would find that super gross. What a weird statement to make. 🙄

[@tiffanyjade6171]

​@@Rebecca.42or maybe don't sent it at all??? I read smut. I don't want that stuff sent to me. It's weird. 🙄

[@m_martha_e]

@@tiffanyjade6171 Same here.

[@cuppa.books.]

Who would have thought a publishing boycott would provide a good segue for a sex toy sponsorship - love it 😂

[@annaf2110]

Leen (Palestinian booktoker) absolutely started the boycott from my memory, and I feel like if r4a wanted to end the boycott, consensus building should’ve been attempted w Leen and any Palestinians within r4a, from her side it sounds like she got a DM asking her opinion and then r4a voted amongst themselves. Idk I think if anti-Palestinian hate started the boycott, Palestinians in the book world should be centred in deciding to end it.

[@mariamali5002]

I'm pretty sure that employee was writing racist stuff on the smp socials

[@r-evolve]

Maybe being nitpicky, but I don't think it's particularly helpful for any community/movement to explicitly demand a corporation denounce a prejudice. They could literally just say "We denounce [prejudice]" and technically, the demand will have been met. I'd rather them be asked to speak on the evidence of prejudice as it relates to them and put the onus on them to prove through action that they actually denounce the prejudice, then the community decides if it was enough. BUT I've also never been an active part of a movement like R4A, so I'm open to other takes.

[@edaaaah]

as someone effected this is just yapping i won't believe they're doing better until they do better.

[@eridejj]

DEI training is one of the most useless things a corporation can do imo. And a statement is not an action. But I understand changes don't come overnight and people putting in the effort probably had an impact. The boycott might be over but their response is so unsatisfying that it will probably affect how i see books published by them in the future. I really appreciate the book community that worked on this tho, so many other industries have fired people over pro-Palestinian stance and it's nice to see any amount of push back on this.

[@eridejj]

Oh nvm I looked it up on Twitter and seems like the boycott is still going. I think that’s the right decision.

[@roubaissa6996]

Free Palestine 🇵🇸 I'm so glad you did this video 😊

[@MadoCar-n4s]

📚📚📚

[@beaq6755]

So in today's episode of "Overreacting and pack mentality panic on the internet"

[@paperbackhercegno]

Wow...This is the first time I heard someone else dnfing red,white and royal blue too!😮🥹