Identification is the Chief Obstacle to Awakening

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Күн бұрын

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@DUST35 Жыл бұрын

You definitely hit the nail on the head with these two last videos on identification. There's actually something called Ego Development Theory (EDT by Susanne Cook-Greuter) related to this topic; "Integrative stages move from identifying with others who are externally alike to oneself at Stage 3, to the like-minded at Stage 4, to the like-principled at Stage 5, and to the like-spirited at the Unitive Stage 6---where spirit is seen as radiant in all sentient beings." Between these stages are times of differentiation where individuals "can step back and distance themselves from the previous known holding environment ... At the same time they generally express some distress because of the loss of the connections and certainty they leave behind. " I don't know if this information is helpful, but EDT seems to suggest that one would have to move through these stages of identification before being able to finally "see through the attempts of the ego to codify and explain reality"; "Self-awareness seems to move from first noticing concrete, external features, to traits, to behavior patterns, to awareness of how patterns are acquired via cultural conditioning, to seeing interrelated systems, and finally, to see through the attempts of the ego to codify and explain reality." As G. said; this is the "chief obstacle."

@alexandrasavtchenko1962 7 ай бұрын

Even if people push against their conditioning-this still then constitutes their identity and identification (sometimes even more strongly because they feel proud that it is self-made!). One idea of why it is so difficult to dis-identify is presented by A. H. Almaas in the book The Point of Existence. In this book he surveys research coming from the field of psychology and child development and shows that identification is an integral part of ego formation. So it is not only a matter of being conditioned by culture-but actually part of how the psyche and the ego is formed in a human being. I recommend this reading as additional context. To dis-identify would essentially mean to deconstruct the ego, which is extremely difficult to do. Perhaps hence the spiritual practices, and Gurdjieff too, are so clear that it is an extremely difficult process that must not be done alone.

@bogieviews Жыл бұрын

Self observation - attention directed with double arrow. Identification - attention captured, single arrow. Dreaming - no arrow.

@bookclub5291 Жыл бұрын

Well said! 🙏

@ajaysanchaniya13 Жыл бұрын

Can you please explain in details about self observation and divided attention thanks

@6Blasphemous66 7 ай бұрын

This hit home

@bookclub5291 7 ай бұрын

Happy to hear that the video was impactful.

@baronbullshyster2996 Жыл бұрын

The observer and the observed. Or the the awareness of your experience. In remembering to remember yourself. You become aware of what you’re experiencing. But you then notice you can notice your awareness. So you experience awareness or to but it another way your awareness has become experience. So you are everywhere and on where at once.