booktok's new obsession: romantasy

[@TheBookLeo]

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[@bxyamilabertoni382]

Oh i think i was late to it. The code wasn't working 😢

[@TapasMedia]

Hi, the issue with the promo code for “I Made a Deal with the Devil” has been fixed! Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks for your patience!

[@bxyamilabertoni382]

@@TapasMedia thank you!

[@loxry_]

My biggest problem with most ‘romantasy’ books is that the connection between the two characters is often very superficial, the writing focuses too much on physical touch, and the characters are always fawning over how hot the other person looks, it’s more lust than love and I would love to see emotional connection happen before physical attraction more.

[@encyclopediaofelizabeth]

Read fantasy that just happens to have a romance. Romantasy as a genre basically puts getting to a relationship faster a priority just like the romance genre. That's the whole point of these books is to get to the romance. Look for slow burns or genres that are something else that just happen to have a romance in them but aren't marketed as x genre + romance.

[@plswatchinfinitytrain]

@@loxry_ true! Im asexual so those romance plot lines always come across silly and superficial to me even though my friend loves it 🙈 i think a lot of people project their own feelings of romance onto the characters rather than whats actually there so it works for them

[@Elle_Riley]

@@encyclopediaofelizabeth i don't mean for this to come off as rude to you since what you're saying feels like exactly the way publishers see it, but with loxry saying they want MORE time spent on developing the romantic connection rather than just a sexual one, you saying to seek out books that spend a smaller portion of the book on romance doesn't feel helpful. it also feels like it completely erases the difference between romantic attraction and sexual attraction, labels sexual attraction as romance, and then is telling people who come looking for romantic attraction IN the literal "romance"/"romance+genre" genre to fuck off because romance in many of these popular books has been exchanged for sexual attraction and now it completely clouds the ability to find things /with/ more emotional/deeper romantic connections. to say the point of romantasy/romance books is to get to a relationship faster sounds ridiculous, too-wouldn't the point of having it play a larger role in a book be to be able to spend more time on it, and thus have more time to draw out the tension and building romance in a way that adds to a physical attraction rather than being based just on that???? look again i don't have a problem with you directly but as someone who has felt the exact way as loxry very often, your response feels very dismissive and unhelpful and it bugged me lol

[@encyclopediaofelizabeth]

@Elle_Riley Publishers are looking at it the way I explained, which is why looking at things not how they are marketing them helps. If you tend to not like books that keep being marketed as romantasy, looking outside of that can help. Sadly, the trend in main stream romantasy is that its not focused on building a relationship. Hence why I encouraged looking into slow burns, they take the time to build that connection. It CAN be very helpful to try books that approach romance as subplot if you want characters to have a deeper connection. The romance being a subplot doesn't mean the romance is weaker compared to other romances, I find less is more when it comes to romance. It all depends on what you're seeking overall. Sometimes I just want things focused on romance, other times if a romance is there it's just a bonus, but not why I'm going into a book.

[@PsychesFlora]

I didn’t find the connection between the main characters in ACOTAR superficial. But I’m sure in many others that is the case.

[@i.j.5384]

romantasy as a genre is honestly such a good idea but most of the books suffer from bad writing imo… it’d be so awesome if it had the same merits that fantasy books have!

[@divinita2]

Exactly!!! The writing is so bad and the characters have always the same traits

[@sava-smth]

Yeah... My problem w romantasy isn't that there's less world building and more sexual tension, it's that the books pretty much always fail at both, and if you read one of them, you've read all of them. Where's creativity! I'm sure this subgenre will outgrow this cashgrab lazy writing era, but I'm not waiting around for it

[@abigase135]

They're basically the same story with different names 🤷‍♀️

[@radix2830]

I noticed that some romantasy books are actually better translated because some editors are just better writers.

[@rachelblack9545]

Especially bad since the bar for writing in fantasy wasn't terribly high to begin with.

[@likethecatiam]

I've come to realize my biggest gripe with romantasy is the writing quality. While they claim to be romance, it ends up just being lust, with superficial characters and basic physical attraction. Characters' personalities themselves change or warp to the whims of whatever serves the plot and tropes like enemies to lovers are actually just the main lead and her bully who she finds hot. The plots of these books also tend to be pretty weak, full of massive plotholes and contradictions, with no or confusing worldbuilding. Romantasy in theory sounds enjoyable to me, but as it is now, they just feel like books that rely too heavily on checking off popular tropes and sexual tension rather than an actual story and world.

[@whiteraven562]

also they all seem to have the same personality across books. You have the small snarky badass who's underestimated and probably uses daggers because she might not be strong, but she sure is fast! And then you have the Big McLargehuge man who's dark and brooding and probably has shadow powers

[@IIxIxIv]

Okay so, writing quality in most books is pretty low? I don't think romantacy is special in that most of it is bad, most epic fantasy, hard sci fi, whatever you want is also pretty bad. It's just the latest popular thing so its easier to get published and easier to get recommended because theres so many fans of the genre active right now.

[@panikiczcock2891]

That's a problem with a lot of romance tbh. It's often not even really romance, just erotica :/

[@lorenzomeulli750]

​@@panikiczcock2891 Absolutely, and that's the point IMO. It's basically false advertising, which is what I have a problem with. These books aren't about "a romance", they are about two charactera hooking up while having fantasy themed action scenes on the side. In general, plenty of fantasy has been written with a central romance plotline anyway, moving the focus more on the romance than anything else would make sense. Two of my favourite fantasy series are The Black Magician by Trudi Canavan and Mistborn (do I need to say it? By Brandon Sanderson) and, surprise surprise, both are mostly written by the PoV of a girl in their late teens who becomes a woman over the series while becoming involved in big adventure and political turmoil, both also have a central romance that's essential to the plotline itself. Such a structure isn't anything revolutionary. But guess what both of those romances are about characters with their own identities, they have different dynamics and don't rely on physical attraction to sell you the idea of romance. Vin and Elend spend most of the first book with the protagonist trying to avoid him while falling in love with him, just to fear that he would reject her actual identity as a commoner. The second book is about their early relationship while their city is under siege after only one year of Elend having become the new King of the city, trying to change society away from an extremely classist one, and she is struggling with her place in their new life. The third book has them as an officially married couple, a badass combat one at that, and their relationship has become solid and more stable, with both of them trying their best for each other while dealing with the challenges of an apocalyptic scenario. Each book has new situations, new challenges for them as a couple that test their love and make them develop as people and as lovers.

[@ophelie2620]

Romance without intense character study is like bread without flour. Or you should write the story in a way that reader can piece together the meaning of interactions, metaphors when there’s just a seemingly straightforward plot on paper. That’s why most “romantasy”s romance is inferior to regular romance plots in fantasy books. Romantasy makes characters and storylines for the sake of romance but suitable characters and storylines is what makes good romance possible. This applies not just to romantic relationships but all character interactions, every interaction should justify its existence in one way or another.

[@JunoMueller]

Kai with an X 🤣

[@nytemarish5911]

My thoughts exactly XD

[@AisyahHeartly]

LOL, Xai!

[@chellyfishing]

That sent me

[@angela_merkeI]

Which would make it "Ksai".

[@valentineboudaud1887]

Almost spat out my morning coffee XD

[@justnick200]

I wouldnt mind romantasy if it wasnt the same book every time

[@vanilla7349]

Have you looked into the folk of the air? It felt pretty unique to me. The romance part was very slow burn and the romance often wasn't the main focus 🤗

[@msk6832]

@@vanilla7349nah. I mean TFOTA is a pretty solid political YA fantasy, but like you said, it’s not a romantasy book. Just political with romance subplot and an underdog MC for us to root for

[@sweetmessie]

@@vanilla7349but I wouldn’t say it’s romantasy. For a while, nothing even happened, romance-wise.

[@benjaminzammit4795]

Doesn't sound like romantasy then, it's just fantasy with a romance sub-plot. Like a majority of fantasies.

[@JeonJungkook-ui3ts]

@@vanilla7349 the folk of the air isnt classified as romantasy, its fantasy with romance as a sub plot

[@skyhideaway]

regarding the whole feminist take, i would argue that a lot of romantasy novels are very much NOT feminist, even when theyre are written by women. there is a lot of emphasis on beauty standards and privilege (the main character usually being a skinny white conventionally attractive woman), gender roles (alpha man who wants to dominate the female character, sometimes even without consent, and this being framed as sexy and romantic), rivalry between women (especially some of the stories where the rival is always a hyperfeminine woman or a woman who is not conventionally attractive and is jealous of the main character), and women with superficial strengths (she’s a trained warrior but she still needs to be saved by her love interest). of course, this doesn’t apply to ALL romantasy, i’m sure there are good ones out there, but romantasy as a genre is not inherently feminist.

[@isaontheoffbeat1126]

Thank you this is exactly what bothers me reading Romantasy!! I can't stand books like that but I'm sure not all of them are like this just like you said ☺️

[@samanthajones1266]

THANK YOU! Just because something is primarily geared towards women that doesn't make it inherently feminist (50s housewife ads, anyone?), and I think romantasy can run into a lot of the same misogynistic tropes that are also common in romance (such as the ones you described!). While that doesn't mean that we should paint all of romantasy (or romance) with the same brush, that does mean we can't turn around and uncritically praise it, either, imo.

[@abigase135]

Exactly 😂 writing about a fmc doesn't automatically make you a feminist cause that character will have a very defining personality

[@briannemcdonald5499]

As someone who hasn't really enjoyed much (if any, really) romantasy the angle I think that matters in the context of "feminism" is that this is largely a genre that is enjoyed by and purchased by women and then a huge faction of the internet and people who read (many, many of them being men) are telling these women that their interests are garbage and their literature is not to the same standard etc. What has amounted to good literature and worthwhile art has pretty much perpetually been determined by men and what they deem as worthwhile. Is it trashy? Sure, let it be trashy, let it be trashy with all the trashy fantasy novels men have been writing for decades without it being accused of ruining reading, or the sanctity of the fantasy genre.

[@hannahn3484]

You hit the nail on the head. It seems that a lot of romantasy suffers from “millennial feminism” and I say this as a millennial. I think 99% of the Greek retelling stories marketed as a “feminist retelling” also suffer from this problem. It’s infuriating to see characters that are supposedly feminist give up all their power (magical or otherwise) as a plot point so she can be with her One True Love™️

[@moonbabemarie]

I’m not a Romantasy girl, but I am so happy Romantasy is its own genre. I really hated it being confused for a Fantasy.

[@abigase135]

Thank you! There are some good ones that actually have world building and a plot but most of them are dragon/fae erotica

[@jasminv8653]

It's still being sold as fantasy ngl.

[@lisapoe888]

@@jasminv8653 😢 it’s horrible

[@D3mOnZ_F4LLinG]

my main problem with it is that its now INCREDIBLY hard to find a non-romance (specifically high fantasy) fantasy novels bc of the mainstream :(

[@geoisacat]

@@D3mOnZ_F4LLinGif you want amazing high fantasy, might I recommend anything Brandon Sanderson if you haven’t read anything by him yet. He’s incredible. Start with Mistborn. I love fantasy too, but so much of it these days is the romantasy stuff and I’m just not into it. I want great characters and plot and world building

[@plswatchinfinitytrain]

Tbh i dont really understand the "strong female character" stuff. Ive read a few young adult/romantasy books and usually the female protagonists are just edgy and kinda mean. But the second they fall for a man they fold and turn into a feminine damsel in distress. I havent really read any of the popular series so i wonder if those are different.

[@caro.jiejie]

Idk ab other books but I could NOT get through throne of glass bcs of this exact reason. Like the main character is just an egoistic, mean girl who thinks she's better than everyone else. I'm sorry but how am I supposed to enjoy a book when I literally cannot stand the main fucking character?

[@ducklingscap897]

The popular books are that and worse lol You have authors like Kristin Cashore who do it a bit differently but she is also not as big as SJM or the writer of fourth wing.

[@isabellaespinal6709]

Unfortunately a lot of people think that a FMC being strong means that she fights really great and is a jerk to everyone but her love interest. These types of characters (male or female) are weak because of the previously mentioned traits, and their lack of complimentary traits to even them out and make them sane not unhinged. I think a good example of this is the Dance of Thieves dulogy. In this series the FMC has physical strength and emotional connections with those closest to her, but is weak due to past trauma that she has not reconciled. The love interest helps her to deal with this. I am sure there are better book examples of this but that's one series I recently read like this.

[@dimasverse2461]

You described From Blood and Ash perfectly. Don't ever read it.

[@crystal_turnip]

@@dimasverse2461 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻speak louder girlll you goooo

[@losj3020]

in theory, I like romantasy. It has all the things I love: brave, no-nonsense heroines, repressed quiet big dudes who's not 100% human, forbidden romance, wizard fights, two people falling in love against the backdrop of a magical apocalypse or something, etc. And I'm always down for some spice. But the execution has been so, so lacking. Dry prose, stale humor, shallow characters, messy plot, mushy worldbuilding, cringy instalust. A lot of the execution falls apart when it comes to the most important parts of a romantasy book. And these are the books getting promoted over and over again. All the recs are the same 10 books with the same 10 tropes. It becomes very difficult to find something that's actually trying to be different than what's trendy. It's infuriating

[@ducklingscap897]

I'm pretty sure that no-nonsense heroines, repressed quiet big dudes should not be a staple of good romantasy. It should be a part of it of course but I feel like the vast majority of books that are fantasy and have a strong romantic subplot definitely do not fit into that category. And yes they are fantasy with romance and not romantasy but the difference between the two shouldn't be that stark. Even the romance genre got over it's obsession with toxic relationships and repressed quiet big dudes.

[@losj3020]

@@ducklingscap897 I'm putting that as an example bc it's so common to see and I actually like the trope. But yeah a lot of good romances don't have that, but I want to see some that actually execute the idea well

[@CarysJones-Lang]

Recommend daughter of smoke and bone, it's fantasy with a lot of romance (particularly the second and third books)

[@sofiamourao1604]

Same

[@venasai9637]

literally this. the premise is SO promising, but the books just feel mass-produced money-grabs. i find the stories they tell are all just predictable and not well thought out. such a shame.

[@cal9581]

I love romance and I love fantasy. I love romantic fantasy. But I don't like romantasy pretty much at all, and it's making it harder to find solid fantasy books with solid romance subplots.

[@GatekeeperGuardian-wv3cd]

I remember when a lil bit mads made a video ranting about romantasy as a genre and I was confused because I thought she was talking about romantic subplots in fantasy which I tend to like. Suffice to say those were more innocent days.

[@crystalightz]

Frrr!! It's making it harder to find a good fantasy with subplot romance

[@TriforceLiz]

Yes, this. I can only think of one author who's pulled romantasy off for me-T. Kingfisher with Swordheart

[@---sm8cl]

Hi, I can recommend the book series The Mirror Visitor by Christelle Dabos. A large, far-reaching fantasy world that is the focus and then there are a few subplots including romantic and friendly ones. Otherwise I can recommend the two-part nature-based fantasy book series Tobie Lolness/Tobie Alone by Timothée de Fombelle, the whole Moomin world created by Tove Jansson and the world around the book The Pages of the World by Kai Meyer. It is about books, libraries and magic. I also find it really hard to find stories like this where romance and love are not the main focus, so maybe let's exchange recommendations here if anyone wants to.

[@ducklingscap897]

I'n in the same boat. I was so happy when I read the shades of magic series lately and there was a lot of fantasy but also a nice romance subplot. it really reminded me that the romance and fantasy mix can be fun and it doesn't have to be the washed out superficial type of story that is so popular now.

[@daisylee4449]

Nothing kills my interest in a book more than the phrase "for fans of Sarah J Maas" used in the description

[@Brysontheonly]

i loveeee a court of thorns and roses though!!

[@sheila19954]

@@Brysontheonly that's good for you, but the book's really not... that good. it's just mid. plus the books have a lot of racist themes. SJM also used the death of a black woman to promote her books, AND she's a z!onist so you have to understand why that "for fans of Sarah J Maas" would turn off many people

[@Maevis3]

Sjm books read like self-insert fanfiction and should not be the standard. People using sjm as the standard are the reason books lately just lack quality so much

[@audreylee5117]

This!! or "for fans of JLA" or "for fans of fourth wing"

[@shepherdlavellen3301]

@@audreylee5117im still cringing at the nickname "Violence", just how deprived of creativity was the writer to come up with that nickname

[@penlead903]

In Korea, any fantasy with a female main character was 'kicked out' of both fantasy and romance section, creating the genre called RO-FAN. It is changing nowadays but I think this speaks alot

[@valhatan3907]

You don't know how tired I *am* with "kingdom" genre in webtoon lmao

[@The14thCapybara]

Korea is crazy for that 💀

[@Rxiepndhst]

I was just about to comment how ro-fan has been growing in south korea 2-3 years AHEAD of the romantasy explosion in the US. I hate the genre so much (aggressively heterosexual and backward gender roles, all stories involve white people in a european-inspired setting, not a single critical instinct about the rigid caste systems) but hey we were doing it first! Lol

[@mamamariana_a]

Interestingly, a similar thing is happening in the manga world! Audiences got tired of the classic hero arc in famous shonen (youn boys genre) and started reading seinen (more adult and dark genre), so what happened is that current shonen started exploring very dark themes to appeal to audiences, while still being marketed to youg boys (the ones that consume manga the most). Its their equivalent to romantasy !!

[@milunamiflor]

this is true, i haven't thought about it before but now that you mention it, jujutsu kaisen and chainsaw man do this

[@lilystoyanova4900]

I've never thought about that! As a lover of more classic hero arcs and someone who dislikes seinen, this explains so much of my frustration with recent popular shounen!

[@fivetopoint]

im very glad that you made the shounen and seinen link, as this is exactly how i feel abt mob psycho DSHGKJH very actiony very feelingsy - taking what worked with the action and putting a spin to it! im all for it personally!!

[@Hawkatana]

A better comparison would be the absolute plague that is the isekai genre and the subsequent Light Novel boom, with much of it just straight-up making the protagonist cartoonishly-overpowered to the point of parody, or even outright advocating for slavery and rape.

[@nicomal]

​@@milunamiflorChainsaw man is so good. I just finished the anime, and was about to start with the manga.

[@atomicdancer]

I'm writing a romantasy story about an old boyfriend who gets into trouble after stealing some dragon eggs and bragging about it on Twitter. It's called "An Ex of X and Eggs."

[@MadelineBuckner]

😆

[@MadelineBuckner]

😂

[@rainydays7761]

I'd love to read something like that! Tell me when you're thinking of releasing it, if it hasn't already!!

[@Theclassfullofcraps]

Title eats up😂😂😂

[@elenabrutau]

I think that what happens is that even though there’s only two chapters with spicy content, the writing throughout the book alludes SOOO much to sex and male smells and physique, that it takes away from the story and the world. Maybe the issue is not the romance but the way it’s written and the balance with the other relationships within the story? 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@irish802]

I agree. If the characters are constantly thinking about how hot and attractive the love interests are, describing them a certain way, and if there is a lot of charged dialogue, it doesn't matter if they aren't having sex every chapter. The story is still about sex to a large degree.

[@George_M_]

The standard Maas format - first 85% of the book, nothing particularly happens besides lust and worldbuilding, then the last 15% where everything happens is actually fun.

[@waterlily3522]

Yeah, in these books, there may only be a few explicit scenes, but the other parts of the books almost feel substance less, or only there so they can build up to explicit scene. There may be an external plot to the story, but its usually not that well thought out or very focused on in the story. It can pale in comparison to the "love" story. Also, even if nothing explicit is happening, if, for majority of the book it's making you hot or flustered because of what's happening, then i'd agree that the point of the book is...

[@SimplyWalkToMordor]

absolutely!

[@spencer7151]

Personally I think romantasy would be a great genre if it was done in the way you said at the beginning. More characterdriven with a little less worldbuilding but a big focus on characterdevelopment. But unfortunately the most popular romantasy books dont have that. They most often have boring main characters with a love interest that is always hot and mysterious but that's it. From my faire share of romantasy books I can say that there most often isn't great characterdevelopment or at least interesting characters...😅🤷🏻‍♀️ But I mean to each their own and I think it is nonsensical to belittle other readers.

[@alexterieur8813]

im glad my sister started to read but i wish she would engage with reading from a place of appreciating it as an art instead of only as a form of escapism (its okay to have reading as escapism but it can be so much more than that)

[@dudeweedlmao8519]

As a dude, I think there can be great romantasy and I don't think as a concept its ruining fantasy. BUT from what I've seen a lot of the romantasy tends to be the equivalent of sword of sorcery fantasy of the 80's. Just shlocky, pandery, wish fulfilly junk food tier reads. Lacking in world building, characterization, themes and focusing on action and smut. I still think that has a place too but its disheartening to see those junk food books taking so much of the shelf space. I think fantasy, romantasy or any genre in general deserves more well thought out and fleshed entries.

[@GypsyxDarling]

omg this is it exactly. its sword and sorcery for girls. which I kind of love, and it’s great it’s having its little moment

[@waterlily3522]

I agree with this so much

[@voidmishka9877]

My biggest issue with popular romantasy is the constant dirty talk and overall immaturity. I attempted to read Fourth Wing before it got popular because it had dragons, but I just couldn't get through the first 100 pages without constantly cringing. The main character just crossed the bridge of death where some characters died, and right away she was dreaming of screwing someone. Why does it so blatantly ignore the trauma she just went through and instead focus on how big the bad guy’s back is? And the number of curse words used in every sentence is just… immature. At least it’s not done as well as it is in high fantasy which has plenty of badass characters with sharp tongues. The same goes for Crescent City! Other adult books that have both romance and fantasy, like Paladin’s Grace, still have the spicy talk, but it's in situations that make sense! I've been reading romantic fantasy for a long time, but these popular books are just icky-worse than some online novels.

[@voidmishka9877]

Some Wattpad smut books back in the day had more tension and flavor to the romance than these, honestly. This is just mindless, loveless, very bland, not even exciting, and pretty immediate lust.

[@voidmishka9877]

And of course, all the male leads are so very willing to endure terrible torture for this random girl they met two weeks ago. But like why, how did they fall in love? Was it off-page? Cause I certainly didn't witness it. Why don't they have the same attitude towards the other random girls just like this one??

[@VivCrepsley]

Thank you so much! That’s also a reason why I most likely won’t buy a romantasy book. If the romance and smut would be at least appropriate in the way of where it’s placed, in which scene, it would be so much better. Because I don’t know about you but I'm not horny if I'd just survive some horrible near death experience. 💀

[@voidmishka9877]

Haha, yeah 😅 There are good ones though! Just a lot of the mega-popular cookie-cutter ones make very odd writing choices that I personally don’t enjoy.

[@Keram-io8hv]

Fun facf: Fourth Wing said "fuck" and it's deviations more times than all Witcher books combined

[@Evelyn_Okay]

Women are reading, writing, and publishing now more than ever. My only gripe is how romantasy has taken such a stranglehold on the market, which has changed how literary agents and publishing houses choose books to release. I highly doubt in 2024, The Hunger Game would be published and gotten as popular as it was.

[@alyssum130]

Truth

[@Heydodoakskdkdjf]

Yes, this is an issue I have as a female writer myself. I am not a fan of the romantasy at all, for many of the same reasons others have shared. I truly love and want to write an updated version of classic fantasy. And I love a good romantic subplot! But it’s…so different from my preference and style. I have to get my hits from older titles or fanfiction.

[@tammystiletto]

She did mention that in 2010 or so that people *wanted* dark books like Hunger Games. Now that seems so close to home, people want the escape. Everything comes and goes.

[@alexreid1173]

100%, but this isn’t a new problem. Publishers focus so much on following trends. The Hunger Games was part of the young adult dystopia trend (largely in that it pushed publishers to get more YA dystopian books, but there were popular YA dystopias before that as well). If you like the trend, it’s great, but if you’re not into it, the focus on it can get really annoying. A lot of major publishers focusing on publishing “diverse books” are also trying to follow a trend. It’s about money, not because they actually care about representation or anything. I’ve been turning to a lot of indie publishers the last few years for these exact reasons.

[@sooheec]

Romantasy helped me get back into reading - like a sweet appetizing snack that triggered my appetite for heartier reads in the true fantasy genre and beyond. The genre definitely doesn't deserve the superficial hate it tends to get. Sugary snacks are fun sometimes!

[@sofiastj]

That is the same with my sister! Although I don't read it, it's the genre that gives her comfort, which is what she seeks out in books, and what I often seek out. Because she has gotten into romantasy after not reading for a long time, we now have so much fun talking about books, even though I don't read the same genre, we both bond over loving reading (and now I always know what presents to get her lol). And she's excited to read! I'm a huge advocate for all reading is reading, all books are books.

[@icetypejulia]

The problem is definitely because a lot of people didn't like fourth wing and acotar but there's some great ones out there and they're really fun books

[@dark.and.planty]

Same here!

[@crystalightz]

.My problem with this genre is that all the books are the same... It seems like you're Reading the same thing again and again... That's why it's so annoying ... It's something authors would write when they have no idea what to write ... A strong female character falling for a high position guy and they overthrow the government together... With some additional "they hate each other" and banter

[@Tinahgirl83]

@@crystalightzThat’s true of the romance genre as well. It’s one of the reasons it’s a comfort for so many people. There are certain beats that romances hit and you pretty much know how its going to end, there will be a happily ever after, and you already know who the next couple is on the series. With Romantasy that means only on romance beats, it will read as same-y and repetitive, and if that’s not your jam, it will get annoying really quickly. Pretty much every romance is the same, based on whatever trope is the main one followed, and it’s the same story with different names, locations, or time periods. When it follows the fantasy beats as well, you’ll get political machinations or battles or quests, but it’ll just be added to all the typical romance stuff, which makes it still feel repetitive. It’s something I happen to absolutely love, and it’s gotten me through some really difficult times (including right now) and it gives me the joy in my reading when my brain can’t handle the soul searching and social critique of lit fic or the stress of thrillers/fantasy. It is definitely not for everyone though, which is understandable.

[@dannymusic6783]

Leonie publishing a video in the middle of the night is one of those things I’d never expect to make me so happy.

[@Espeonchan]

Ikr, I woke up this morning and the notification was just there, it took me a second to realize she uploaded a new video. 😂

[@tattoowithlea]

I'm really glad that we officially have a name for the genre 'romantasy' because I'm not a fan of it. It happend way too often that I wanted to read a fantasy book but it was just romance with a sparkle of fantasy. I don't mind romance but I often feel like if it's the main focus it just doesn't hit right. I prefer it as one of many sub-plots. And spice bores me so the popular romantasy books are really not for me. And even though I don't like this genre I think it's stupid and misogynistic that just because a lot of female readers read romantasy it's frowned upon... I'm just happy to know which books I can avoid and happy for the people who have their own genre now :)

[@QuestionQuestionMark]

Yeaahh looking down on something because it has romantic elements is dumb. I play D&D for a living and one of the things many of my players do is get into some type of romantic subplot, and it never takes away from the story at hand. It's a feature, whereas these romantasy books feel as if. That's the main point, the protag gets D'd down to the backdrop of less-than-stellar worldbuilding.

[@ab-ab1126]

So true, recently i was reading "powerless" and it was so fun until it reached the final chapters and "reckless" and the fantasy aspect just went poof and it's disappointing, probably the book that i read and didn't ruin it for me is the "cruel prince", making romance a sub genre is much better in my opinion, especially when it's not all sexual and how hot the other looks

[@ab-ab1126]

​@@QuestionQuestionMarkexactly what i think, romance being a sub genre/plot would be much better in a fantasy book

[@rutherfordium2954]

100% agree. I love me some romantic subplots but I'm not a big fan of the romance genre and quite a few of the romantasy I've read I haven't liked. Now that romantasy is differentiated I can get back to my epic fantasy without accidentally coming across something I don't like and people who are into that can find it better as well!

[@Arne_bishop]

I’ve been inspired to write my own book to cash-in on this trend. I’m calling it “A Throne of Light and Grey” with the tagline “He was her nightmare, but she was an insomniac.” We follow our protagonist, Eeeee Eeeeeeeeee, a princess from the mythical kingdom of Keyboardsmashia, as she battles against her super edgy and cool arch rival with a secret soft side that only gets exposed when he’s with Eeeee Eeeeeeeeee, Leoneai Dominicus (he has black hair so you know he’s the anti-hero) of Vaguelyeuropeansoundingname. Eventually, the two fall in love and overthrow the monarchies of Keyboardsmashia and Vaguelyeuropeansoundingname and become the new king and queen of a new utopian society, because monarchy is actually really good, apparently; bad empires are only bad not because absolute monarchy is inherently bad, but because bad people are in charge, and as soon as those people are no longer in power, the system will work perfectly. There are a bunch of battle scenes that looked really cool when I was imagining them, but when I actually wrote them they all turned out really boring and stiff. There’s even a really intricate magic system that I spent 50 pages explaining but only comes up twice and half of the rules I established get broken anyway.

[@draupadih3980]

Please publish this, I will buy it😂

[@junnKhya]

Huge fan of the tale of Eeeee Eeeeeeeeee, reminds me of the story of Shshshshsh

[@JojoboxVlogs]

I would 100% buy this 😆

[@LisaTenshi]

can't wait to read it 💯

[@tuluppampam]

Fun fact: absolute monarchies aren't inherently bad. At least in no way more than any other government type. France was more democratic before the democracy, because people could directly talk with those in charge and hope to get stuff done. Democratic propaganda should stop.

[@jessicah4631]

Maybe this explains why I tend to enjoy the older YA fantasy romances over most todays romantasy. I dnf so many adult romamtasies... I find them all so surface level, lusty and insta-lovey, even when their supposed to be enemies to lovers, their inner thoughts are all about undressing each other. Where as YA fantasy romance usually has more depth and character development, and slow burn romance which I personally much prefer.

[@rachelblack9545]

What are your favorite YA fantasy romances?

[@katierasburn9571]

Romantasy feels like fanfiction of fantasy to me idk

[@loveylace4541]

You might want to try T. Kingfisher, start with Paladin's Grace. Slow burn and the characters are older. It's fun are clever. I loved it.

[@jessicaluk74]

It's so hard to find a slow burn romances. There's no yearning

[@jessicah4631]

@@loveylace4541 thank you for the recommendation. 😊

[@LovelyDray]

As a fantasy lover who‘s ace and hates romance, this era right now is my nightmare. My local (big) bookstore is removing more and more epic fantasy books from the shelves in favour of stocking YA/romantasy. I recently went and asked where they had the Brandon Sanderson books and they told me I could order them but they‘re not stocking ‚niche fantasy right now‘ 😭😭😭

[@xoPotatoTreexo]

If Brandon Sanderson is "niche" what does that make literally every other fantasy 😭 I would have thought he was a big seller for bookstores!

[@LovelyDray]

@@xoPotatoTreexo I was shocked! I mean I get it, YA gets younger people into the store and they've even prepared a "TikTok recommended" table now (idk), but I really didn't think Brandon was niche. They told me they had some "Mistborn" boxed sets in stock, but only bc it was on sale T_T

[@meganhughes1444]

I went to my library this morning and they had none of his books "tears.

[@marsqwq181]

that is SO shocking since sanderson is considered huge in the fantasy genre right now

[@loveylace4541]

Girl, girl, girl, go for Realm of the Elderlings, by Robin Hobb. Fitz and the Fool have the greatest platonic relationship of fantasy. People complain they didn't become a couple, but as a aroace person I'm having the best time of my life.

[@DerBomster]

I remember encountering the term 15 or so years ago, when a local (German) bookstore used the "Romantasy" header on a shelf to present the Twilight books and a glut of more books with black covers featuring blood drops, roses and other red objects. Maybe the bookseller was a visionary.

[@emilieerkens775]

I totally agree! Romantasy exists for at least 10 years and + and I think it became popular among bookworms as Twilight came out... whereas new adult romantasy is much younger I suppose

[@jessicawatson5757]

I really appreciate that ACOTAR got me back into reading but now that I read a lot more I just wish it was easier to find recommendations for fantasy books with out romance being the main story plot. I personally don't mind if a fantasy book happens to have a romance in it I just don't want it to be the whole story.

[@ab-ab1126]

So true, romance could be a fun addition if done properly, but it being the main plot in fantasy just never works for me, even if you try to ignore how sexual they often are, they tend to take away from the fantasy aspect of it all

[@jencrest]

I love the joke about the trope of "An x of x and x" as YA Fantasy/Romantasy and then reminding people the Game of Thrones series is actually called "A Song of Ice and Fire."

[@ducklingscap897]

Guess where they got inspired from lol

[@jencrest]

@@ducklingscap897 Not sure how to take this comment tbh lol -- I'm well aware of this, but it doesn't make the looks on their faces any less funny.

[@MayaMint]

Aaand A song of Ice and Fire is also known (and popular) for depicting intimate scenes including dubious and non-con.

[@notreal9214]

my only exposure to game of thrones was when my brother, who was reading the book, insisted on reading aloud a passage where a character describes the taste of semen. not a book I care about in the slightest.

[@RomanII1997]

Tells you about game of thrones

[@TriforceLiz]

As a fantasy and fanfic reader, I LOVE the idea of romantasy, but I almost always detest the way it's executed 😮‍💨

[@theopollind8024]

...which is why I write them myself The fanfics I mean 😂😂😂

[@NhiNguyen-zp6tz]

I totally agree with you. It makes me so sad to not like these romantasy books when I love romance and fantasy. I can’t get through these published books when many fanfics are better written

[@TriforceLiz]

@@theopollind8024 Same 😅

[@TriforceLiz]

@@NhiNguyen-zp6tz 💯 I often wonder if a lot of the romantasy readers have never interacted with fanfic before. I know someone in my life where that was the case and I blew their mind when I introduced them to fanfic and now they can't look at most popular romantasy the same. Romantasy often feels like baby's first introduction to spicy romance (without enough character growth or romance development), and a lot of fanfic, spicy or not, feels like the veteran good sh**

[@Percabethandsokeefe]

@@theopollind8024oh , I would love to read it . What is the name and where can I read it ? Oh and also your name on the account , so i can find it better .

[@ochoheido]

Not a romantasy but more of a feminist fantasy, Robin Hobb's Liveship Traders trilogy is absolutely fantastic and I don't think enough people are reading it. It's got strong females, giant sea serpents, pirates, political intrigue, adventure, living ships, and actually shows the lasting trauma to rape victims. It is SO well done.

[@matchablossom3720]

Realm of the Elderlings is next in my list! I'm excited for it. And I also adore Fourth Wing and ACOTAR. In the end it's what you take out of stories. There's a lot of great female friendships in Sarah J Maas works (all three series she has) for example. And I particularly like how both potential love interests in Fourth Wing were different and her decision with whom she ends up with makes a lot of sense if you apply a feminist lense to it. They aren't particularly well written, but they still lend themsevles to some feminist analysis with positive outcomes. They deserve criticism, yes, but most takes I see that aren't favorable to these two particular series (Fourth Wing and ACOTAR) are just beyond anything I would call "in good faith". And yeah, it tastes a lot like "it's extremely popular with women so it must be bad" in my mouth. I grew up reading Marion Zimmer Bradly which can be said is known for feminist themes in her fantasy books. Although reccomending her or re-reading her works give me the ick because of what came out about her postmortem. I'm desperate to find stories like that again and hope Robin Hobb can deliver 😅

[@crownprincesslaya2]

Yaaaas🎉

[@irenemartos1756]

Hi, do you have more feminist fantasy books recomendations? I like both romantasy and just fantasy

[@pannedbyanna]

I personally think Romantasy refers specifically to the subgenre of books written after seeing how well ACOTAR did, and it’s not as much a genre as it is a book structure or a format. And it's quite obvious that SJM set the guidelines for this particular book format, that's why every title of the books in this subgenre sounds the same, every character name is similar, every male love interest is built like a brick wall, etc. It's also important to note how she didn't write anything too original herself. Traditionally in fantasy books, the "romantic" parts are heavily tied to the political plotline (succession threats, dynasties ending, etc.) and sometimes contain sex scenes that are contextually relevant, but not meant to be the climax of the storyline. What SJM did was move the urgency of the plotline from the political threat to the romantic story. Her style of writing also made it much more accessible to non fantasy readers + the added spice (which isn't really constant sex, but mostly buildup of sexual tension) hit the reader jackpot and completely blew up. This isn't a bad thing: she popularized a particular book formula that people absolutely loved. But every "romantasy" that has come out after ACOTAR got so much success is (for the most part) replicating her formula in one way or another. SJM tweaked the fantasy book formula to make romance the main motor of the story, and other authors are replicating that formula. Romantasy is the replica of the tweaked replica 😂 Also, this is not just about the authors: editors and publishing houses have seen SJM become hugely successful and open the door to a new market of readers, so many are pressuring authors to try and do the same and give the audience what they want. This often results in books that are heavily edited to force the tropes more than make a meaningful story, and authors often have very little control over this. Overall, romantasy is not "bad" but it is a trend, and much like the one we saw with the boom of dystopian world novels after the Hunger Games blew up 15 years ago, it will pass. I don't think it's a strong enough subgenre that it will stay as popular for decades to come.

[@heloooniii]

I think the problem is not the premise of Romantasy but rather the recent tropification of everything. The characters have no chemistry at all? Don‘t worry, they will have as soon as you throw in a enemies-to-lovers situation and a „Who did this to you?“-scene. The genre suffers from bad writing, the authors develop the characters and romance on a surface level and rely on beloved tropes to fill in the gaps. Combined with the lacky world-building that romantasy is famous for it just doesn’t make a good book in most cases.

[@mally6101]

The major problem with romantasy for me is that they are very often horribly written, poorly edited, and overall lower-quality. I don't see that as much in romantic fantasy or other genres, but for some reason the writing in a lot of these romantasies is just fully garbage. Especially Jennifer L. Armentrout - like how does a publisher allow writing like that to happen?? So ya it's not the content for me - it's the quality. Write what you want but at least follow language rules 😭 EDIT: Obviously I'm not talking about ALL romantasy. But I have given many of these books a chance and the writing quality has not been there.

[@notvkn]

yeah I think this is the big thing, sure only a couple chapters of acotar are explicit, but the rest of the books arent really worth reading as standalone high fantasy or whatever, so of course the series' public image is going to focus on the parts that make it actually unique rather than "uhhh this mediocre fairy thing kinda wanders around without anything meaningful to say"

[@anamoralsb]

romantasy to me is just plain bad writing, an excuse for lack of plot. You can write a romance with fantastical aspects and you can write a fantasy with romance in it. Romantasy books in general ruin the romance and the fantasy for me

[@Beafree1975]

Thank you for breaking down ACOTAR for us because The way everyone talked about it, it made it seem like smut was in every chapter. I am now open to reading it.

[@encyclopediaofelizabeth]

Some of the later books do have much much sex. According to everyone that I know that has read it, the farther you go the more sex you find.

[@ducklingscap897]

@@encyclopediaofelizabeth Yep. The focus on sex basically increases with every book.

[@fire34fly]

ACOTAR may not have explicit scenes in every chapter but it's the main thought of almost every character all the time. Every time they see their significant other it's always the thought about sex and their physical attributes that just leaves it being so vapid and shallow, personally speaking.

[@camilasummers]

The first couple of books have very little smut. It was only like 2 sex scenes per book (and those books are hella long), lots of sexual tension though but the plot definitely took the front line. The last book though was just straight up smut… I was not a fan 😔

[@irish802]

I don't like romantasy but when I read ACOTAR years ago, I really enjoyed it for what it was. Especially the first two books were quite entertaining, I have to admit. And the other comments are correct, there isn't that much smut but it does increase with every book.

[@Kenough_in_Wonderland]

I like the differentiation of open and closed door romance the best when referring to whether it contains explicit content or not, it makes sense and yet is still a sort of "undercover" way of talking about it hahah

[@karringtonpease4481]

yes omg I hate the stupid chili rating like some people's 3 chili peppers is crazy 😭

[@Caroline-mt5si]

I do love the idea of Romance and Fantasy combined, but similar to what Leonie mentioned here, I’ve never been a big fan of Romantasy. I absolutely adore high fantasy / historical-ish fantasy with a romance subplot, but Romantasy just often doesn’t have the points that I value in a book, which are: -Good world building. I’m not saying that Romantasy world building is bad, it’s just often based on many stereotypes (fourth wing-> Dragonriders, deadly trials, magic school, also dragons but…Evil? / Acotar-> immortal humanoids that are basically normal people, just hotter, Mary-sue, element-based houses aka courts) -Character development being secondary in many Romantasy books -The Romance just isn’t for me, I will always choose the “cute“ type of romance over the “hot“ type of romance But hey, no shame to the romantasy girlies and guys, everyone ha other priorities when it comes to fiction and those of romantasy are just as valid as any other.

[@ducklingscap897]

Yeah you really have to go looking for romantasy books that have "cute" romance (like His Secret Illuminations) or just a decent world building. You find them, when you look for it but they don't jump in your face because they are popular.

[@illyann4669]

You my feelings into words. I feel the same.

[@shepherdlavellen3301]

for me personally I don't mind a world of stereotype such as the one in fourth wing or ACOTAR, what I have problem with was the plot, the characters and the story. "Hey, this lowly human just murdered our friends, what do we do with her?" "Let her live in riches and luxuries among a bunch of hot studs for the rest of her life" "sounds legit" or be a world about dragonriders full of seriousness (not really) and edginess (just cringe) and shove the cruelty of the war to your face (Timmy just died, wait, who is Timmy again?), but ended up being not better than a middle finger to the reader's face (what kind of nickname is Violence???)

[@SpookyBento]

I'm so glad you brought up the disconnect between Romantacy books having spice and readers on the outside assuming they're only smut as a result. I've tried tirelessly to explain some of the interesting themes to friends who wouldn't read the books anyway and anything that isn't "oh and then they hooked up once" just goes in one ear and out the other. Truely a travesty because some of these books are really fun in spite of the awkward spice scene here and there. (Some are just written better than others) I was also hollering when you picked up The Cruel Prince! I love that series - it was the first audiobook series my BFF recommended to me and reading that trilogy led to me trying other mainstream series like ACOTAR and Fourth Wing. I hope other authors will write more books like TCP that leans more on the political intrigue with hints of romance here and there as accent colors.

[@melemon810]

as someone who dislikes romance playing any big role in my books, I’m DEVESTATED by this. I adore fantasy, but I feel like no one is writing it for the plot or world anymore, it’s all characters. And that’s fine, character driven is cool- it just usually has romance.

[@RuanMei_SocietyGenius]

As a girl who tries to write high fantasy this really saddens me and the same time, gives me more fuel to made my stories.

[@ezool18]

i think my biggest gripe with romantasy is that 1) a lot of the popular ones are very heteronormative so i barely see queer love stories hyped up and 2) a lot of the heteronormative romances have strangely traditional gender roles/values reflected in the male and female protagonists, that i get surprised when i hear people praise them so highly for their feminist themes. i think a lot of that also has to do with the popularity of the ACOTAR series bc of the language SJM uses (mates, alphas, males, females, etc.), bc a lot of the recent romantasy books seem like they have inspo roots from that series. im all for fantasy romance (i prefer "romantic fantasy," in that the fantasy A-plot is stronger than the romantic B-plot) and i really want to get into romantasy, but none of them seem to fit with my views regarding gender and such in a romantic/sexual couple, so i never tend to make it to the end of the book before DNFing.

[@chellyfishing]

Yes hard same!!! This is so much of it for me. It’s so weird and regressive and off-putting that I can’t look past it to have a good time with any of them.

[@GatekeeperGuardian-wv3cd]

My understanding is that there's more than enough queer romance to go around. The problem is just that publishers never seem to want to pick them up or at least not promote them as aggressively as the ACOTAR clones. A pity, really, since at least it would be something new.

[@nabilahalshari7880]

@@GatekeeperGuardian-wv3cd yep, in order to find queer romances that are to your liking you'd have to know how to dig around. Chances are there's something for you, and they're not even necessarily European fantasy either. Danmei for instance (Chinese MM romance) deals heavily in genres of Chinese fantasy.

[@losj3020]

the heteronormative stuff is spot on. What draws me to the idea of a romantasy is that theoretically, you can write a het romance "from scratch". You don't need to worry about IRL trad gender roles. You can create a romance where characters can fall in love as characters instead of fitting them into roles of "male x female". Ofc authors can incorporate patriarchy into their books, but they almost always barely scratch the surface. Instead of actually exploring it, most of the time the book just use the existence of patriarchy to make the characters look more progressive and insist that the ML is soooo dreamy bc he's not a sexual predator or smth :/

[@ttfn1412]

im no romantasy reader, hell not even a romance nor a fantasy reader, im a boring litfic reader. but i will defend any genres to exist to lemme say a few things. my gripe with romance was also the heteronormativity in the popular pool, so i understand ur point. however, now that i think about it, it is hardly the genre’s fault, it is more the audience’s and the marketing teams’ work on making what’s already hyped up more popular, and in turn drowning the not-so-popular ones. i am really gay, like, lesbian to my core, and i do not enjoy reading about straight people, hence why i do not read romance bc the popular ones are very straight, but i can hardly blame it on the genre when its ME who refused to deep further to find good lesbian romance books, they are out there, but i can’t be bothered to find them by reading them all myself without being told what’s good or not. even when i’ve found good gay books, they are almost always with white american or european centric characters. i’m a POC so that also kinda turns me off. however, again, that is also not the genre’s fault. unfortunately being a minority, double minority in my case, means i will have a harder time to find what represents me or at least what i could see myself in so i can fully enjoy it. it is unfair but that is why activisms are asking for equity. yeah, sorry for going that deep but it IS a oppression issue, albeit in a minor scale. i keep using romance instead of romantasy bc it’s an older genre that i can find more examples of but the concept is the same to me. gay and POC books are out there, romance or romantasy, they are just not being marketed enough, just like any other minority things out there, so readers don’t get to hear enough of them. that’s why the genres seem so white heteronormative, when they really arent. best i could say is to follow creators to curate ur socials so u can find what u are looking for, it goes for readers of any genre if they want to find less surface level recs of the same books, over and over again. good luck on finding them! im sure u’ll find them!

[@annakwiatek-kucharska9858]

Great video! Thank you for citing so many different sources and your experience from back in the day. I was missing the "why I like YA fantasy so much?" As a women, mother and an adult I find it cosy to read something that I know won't contain serious crimes, trauma etc.

[@tesskealoha]

just my unsolicited opinion, but i feel like booktok is ruining the “traditional” way of sharing / discovering your own preferences when it comes to reading.

[@isaontheoffbeat1126]

You're right though!

[@cupofkeyshae]

I agree with this!

[@MadelineBuckner]

What’s the “traditional” way?

[@mysterytime5200]

I don't agree there, everyone can read what they want. It's everyone's own decision if they want to read the "booktok" books. How do you discover your own preferences? Reading a lot of books and figuring out what you like, you can do that wherever

[@Queencereal]

Controversial, but Romantasy, in my opinion, only works if it’s a fairytale. If you add deeper themes like genocide or anarchism, you lose the relationship because those themes deserve to be fleshed out - a concept often lost on contemporary Romantasy authors.

[@RuanMei_SocietyGenius]

Yup, romantasy only works if its short stories

[@paulaapu7207]

Agreed, and they’re unable to be well done by completely clueless authors like Sarah J. Maas, who is a zionist.

[@ruththinkingoutside.707]

2:38 .. quick observation.. I started reading this type of stuff in the 80s .. fantasy and romance separately but also.. there’s always BEEN fantasy romance novels.. they just weren’t dominating the market..

[@Barbi3_215]

Girl this intro has me dead🤣🤣 form the start 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻

[@telercoi3234]

I know this is NOT the point of the video, but I love instead of “okay, I’m back, sorry my camera died” the use of “my camera died, I got some tea, look at this cute mug, now let’s continue”

[@caidienburger3508]

It's also worth mentioning that chapter 42 in the first acotar book isn't actually full smut. It's just groping and foreplay before they're interrupted. Yeah it's a steamy scene but it's not quite full spice - cooking but not finished if you will. I was also super surprised when I read a physical copy for annotation after listening to the audiobook, but Thorns and Roses is significantly less spicy than a lot of people think. It's the later books that live up to the Faerie Smut reputations.

[@Leenambw]

OKAY YES! ACOTAR is not even that spicy, at least until you get into A Court of Silver Flames... I'm not sure why people label the first 2 books as spicy when it's one or two scenes and they're not even that good lol.

[@abbykadabby418]

Omg this has bothered me forever. These books except for ACOSF as @leenambw mentions, are really quite tame. Not even close to the erotica people like to make it out to be lol. It really grinds my gears that it tends to get thrown in that category as a way to be like "ugh that's JUST porn, it's so stupid" haha.

[@katierasburn9571]

Okay but if you want to finish the series youre now invested in you have to read through all the later smut regardless so is it not a fair warning?

[@caidienburger3508]

@@katierasburn9571 I'm not saying it's not a fair warning at all. I'm all for being clear and accurate in expectations and knowing what you're getting into. Which is why I clarified the contents of chapter 42. The first book of ACOTAR isn't the erotica it's painted to be, which could disappoint some, or open the door for someone curious with reservations.

[@dragon010788]

When I visit local bookstore nowadays most of things on the shelf under fantasy sections are romantasy novels now. It's really crazy. 😂

[@avsambart]

While I have zero interest in Romantasy, I am glad it's a genre because until now I was always worried about picking up a fantasy book in case it ended up having romance in it (I cannot stand romance - especially heavy - in my books! Just personal preference.), and now I can pick any book labeled just Fantasy and know I'm not gunna end up with something I really didn't want to read.

[@wiktoriaebek4174]

Leonie youre the only creator whose ads i never skip i love that you make them highly interesting and captivating for your audience! Like this is such a good recommendation! You’re better than tiktok algorithm when it comes to recs 😂

[@kcbauz]

As someone who loved The 5th Season, The Poppy War, Divine Rivals, and Throne of Glass I appreciate this so much. I loved all these books for wildly different reasons. Sometimes it is fun to escape and sometimes I want to think deeply about our world. It is okay to enjoy both.

[@sophiep7184]

The poppy war!?!!? Romantasy???? 😭

[@rhaenyratargaryen4394]

In what world is the poppy war romantasy?!

[@Mia-po9ti]

@@sophiep7184 That's not what the person is saying, just that they liked all the books even though they are very different

[@lumityviktuuristanartist4100]

The poppy war is not romantasy babe it’s straight up fantasy

[@kcbauz]

That was the point I was trying to make. I feel like we often pit romantasy vs fantasy and it’s unnecessary. The 5th Season and The Poppy War are straight fantasy and they are incredible books (seriously works of art). But I think you can love these books and also enjoy reading Divine Rivals and Throne of Glass.

[@isaontheoffbeat1126]

I have been waiting for a video like this because I'm personally a bit sad what fantasy turns into because I like my romance subplot and my magic and my found family

[@brandileahx]

when people categorize the cruel prince (my baby) as romantasy it makes my heart hurt, it's downplayed so much. Then people expect a huge romance plot line in it, read it and find it's not there, and rate the book poorly because of that solely.

[@Meg_Sprite]

I’ve seen that too! I don’t get it - I went in knowing it was more of a political fantasy and ADORED it. So much so that I now own a fancy edition of the series 😂

[@abbykadabby418]

I am also a big fan! I was lucky enough to not know much about it before reading and came away so excited about it. I try to take most book recs with a grain of salt anyway, knowing everyone's feelings are very nuanced. This was just one of those times I was happy to have almost non existent expectations haha.

[@stephr5914]

Although I do rate the last book poorly because it left me unsatisfied with both the plot AND the romance. :/

[@ab-ab1126]

I loved it so much for that exact reason, romance being a sub plot, doesn't take away from the leads' character development, and isn't all about how hot and sexually attractive the other is, and bc i love it i went to read other "romantasy" books with the same expectations (which are so high bc of it lol) and so far i haven't found one that's actually that good or fun

[@EtheriaI]

I kinda like romatasy (the one that aren’t nasty” anyways I read the cruel prince thinking it was a romantasy but I still liked it but was confused why it was considered romantasy because it felt more like fantasy with a sparkle of romance I still love it tho

[@MargaretPinard]

Interesting insight into the audiences of YA and Adult Fantasy! I wish we could keep those terms to mean the guardrails they used to, but you're right, people have expectations around them that go beyond age appropriateness. So great to hear your. memory, so much clearer than mine on this. :D

[@kate98765]

Sookie Stackhouse was fun! It didn’t take itself too seriously and delivered on the 🔥

[@2506stardust]

Hi Leonie! You probably won't see my comment but I still want to get this out there. I started watching your videos maybe a year or two ago and I can just say that your channel was one of the gems that I found on here on youtube. I adore your approaches so much because they are always quite nuanced and involve using critical thinking, which is not seen in the fast paced-catch attention media world as much today. You are an example that honesty does not have to be rude, that it can be done with grace, that thoughtful video essays can provoke the reader to think about the points you raise in their own time. And being honest, I am also kind of very inspired by you. I've seen you talk about your academic achievements and I have been so inspired by them. I am so thankful your channel exists, that you exist. Wish you the vesy best!

[@jaimefok]

the character names are ON POINT

[@Sarah-st1zv]

I woke up craving breakfast in front of youtube talking about fantasy books ! wouhou

[@Chloeeeeev]

I’m super surprised that the bookstore had Uprooted in the romantasy section, there’s the tiniest crumb in there…definitely not a romantasy in my eyes!!

[@AseAPS]

Romantasy should work for me. It should. I like both a lot. Every one I've tried though has had the same issue. Both the fantasy elements and the romance elements both consistently feel underbaked. I don't know why they all have to be like this (the ones I read I mean.). Writing romances isn't an excuse to have shallow world building and themes, and having dragons, even well crafted ones, isn't an excuse to have the romance elements be good. You need both to be good.

[@johnnyritenbaugh1214]

This is really it for me. I absolutely adore "romantasy" kdramas--and everything about the book genre should appeal to me. The execution typically leaves both aspects wanting. The chemistry between the leads sucks, and the fantasy is so bare bones it might as well not even be there.

[@AseAPS]

@@johnnyritenbaugh1214 If you want one that I think is legitimately a 10/10, read Spinning Silver.

[@AseAPS]

If you do, read it in winter. It really makes a the world pop.

[@johnnyritenbaugh1214]

@@AseAPS I've only heard great things about Spinning Silver!

[@AseAPS]

@@johnnyritenbaugh1214 Yep! Totally great book. It's the perfect win to read.

[@rachelbarnett6890]

I really appreciate that the acotar then tog series got me back into reading after not being able to for almost 10 years, but now I'm ready for more of the epic fantasy genre!

[@victoriasmith490]

The green rider series would be perfect for you then

[@jamiemeicheng6589]

🙋🏻‍♀️ this is me lol. read fourth wing and iron flame for the first time a little over a month ago, and i have since read all of ACOTAR and Throne of Glass. Just started Crescent City. You captured perfectly that romantasy a blend of YA vibes with adult themes. I’ve read Name of the Wind and The Fifth Season, and while they’re also very good, it doesn’t capture the same magical escapism that I felt when I was a teenager. To your last point-even though a lot of romantasy has characters with a lot of trauma, the romantic part of it helps the idea that despite all the shit the characters go through, there’s someone out there who loves them and helps them through the trauma. It’s inherently more positive than non-romantic fantasy where traumatized characters often don’t get such a happy ending.

[@onlyonGraceXM]

I love romantic fantasy, but imo, romantasy as it is now feels like writers trying to hit the ACOTAR vibes and success even if they have different fantasy elements. Strong beautiful woman, strong dominant male, sometimes a POC/queer character in there… There are definitely more diverse romantasy books out there and hopefully this is just the fumbling baby steps and the genre will bloom more vibrantly in the future 😅

[@celestepoggioli3634]

My take is not on romantasy specifically but on your video, it was amazing and with such interesting points and great research behind! I honestly like all your book recommendations videos, but I absolutely adore the more "essay" style, deep dive into a topic videos. You really do a great work with those, so keep it up! Sending you love from Italy!

[@k9vetdoc]

I think the reason for a lot of the 'fairy p*rn' jokes aren't directly related to the number of smut scenes, but the fact that 80% of the main character's inner monologue is lusting after the love interest. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fanfic girly, so I'm real comfortable with true smut fics, and this isn't that, but smut also isn't masquerading as something else. If the author isn't going to put equal effort into the fantasy as they do the romance, of course it's going to be a shoddy world build full of holes. I'm not at all against this genre, but I do think it specifically fits in as an adult version of the young adult genre, i.e. new adult (which is what they called it before romanasy blew up as a term). I totally think the genre has merit. Sometimes I don't want to read an epic fantasy with 50 different characters that I need to remember, that has 20 different plot lines going on, and Romantasy could fill that void. That said, when I'm going for an easy fantasy read with lower stakes like this, I'd still prefer to have an interesting story line with well written characters that I actually like, and a world build with minimal plot holes, which is what the really popular books in this genre lack.

[@aerthemida]

Omg! The Dragonriders of Pern was my entry into fantasy romance back in high school days during 00s. I still think about rereading them sometime soon, because all these 'modern' fantasies read like FanFictionNet self-inserts I read 15 years ago. (and back in the day self-inserts were considered very cringe mind you) Also, great video as always :)

[@poppycalliope]

You explained everything perfectly Leonie ✨️ I love reading both fantasy and romantasy ❤️‍🔥

[@hellfire4you]

I’ve read great fantasy books and great romance books, those are my two favorite book genres. Why is it so hard for authors to properly blend the two genres together?? I want to read a romantasy book that’s well written and doesn’t feel rushed and hallow.

[@CherryMoonMaiden]

Are you waiting for Patrick Rothfuss to finish???? I know I am, great fantasy but as bad or worse than George RR Martin at finishing his series 😢

[@axellel7717]

I had my Romantasy phase but I think what pushed me out of it was that the plots of most of the romantasy books I read were excuses for the smut. That's why I kinda understand when people say that it's p*rn, even though that is not exactly it. But everything around is just leading to the spice (especially the trauma)

[@melissam2436]

I would love to see a some insight on romantasy books vs fantasy with a romanic sub plot books!!! It would be neat to see it on a linear scale like the way you explained romance novels on the emotional to silly scale in one of your other deep dive videos! Love your videos sm leonie!

[@deenaavers6946]

well, i’ll be darned. i’m literally the person leonie was talking about near the end, who only saw these books as full of smut because that’s how they’re described. i didn’t know how little there actually was, so consider me corrected!

[@johnnyritenbaugh1214]

The chapter count stats are definitely true! The first and second ACOTAR books don't really have much capital C content. A caveat, though, is that while they aren't doing the deed in every chapter, the sexual tension is the driver of the story, which makes the topic present all the time. Proceed with knowledge! haha

[@stephr5914]

While there might not be much in comparison to the plot, what there *is* is quite explicit... and lengthy (hah). Not all smut scenes are equal - while I enjoyed the rest of the story, I found the writing style of the sex scenes unbearably cringey as the series progressed. And granted, the last book - court of silver flames - dials that up even more to the degree where many would say the plot doesn't even really matter. I wouldn't say it's necessarily derogatory to call it fairy smut, it's just recognising that SJM needed a reason to write what she enjoys writing (now that shes established the world)... Which is smut.

[@Dunybrook]

I was never really into young adult fantasies or romance much but some of my favorite authors like Jacqueline Carey (Kushiel's Dart is over 20 years old!), Kelley Armstrong, Guy Gavriel Kay, and N.K. Jemisin do write books featuring strong women protagonists and also tend to feature a lot of sex and/or romance. Fascinating video.

[@Anni-zf6zn]

I wish romantasy where the maincharacter wasn't a mary-sue special snowflake type and the love interest a toxic male (both conventionally attractive and instantly horny for each other despite being enemies) were more popular so i could enjoy the genre. I like romance focus on queer books (like crier's war duology which i would call a romantasy)

[@s00005]

The biggest reason why I couldn’t watch game of thrones was because the sex scenes made me uncomfortable, so to see mostly fans of these sides of fantasy calling out romanticy as porn is wild. Also thank you for clarifying that many of these that receive that label barely have a scene or two max of intimate scenes, and the clear stigma with sex in general. Romanticy is not my favorite genre but I still find myself annoyed by the obvious misogynistic reactions to it. Constructive criticisms are valid, but I don’t see those often, and I sincerely hope other sub genres of fantasy get the same level of constructive criticisms as well.

[@Tojeaux_]

Theres a sorta big difference between The TV show GoT and how the books portrayed sex. How some romantsy books do their sex scenes is Extremely close to just popcorn sex fanfic ( which isnt bad but some of the valid criticisms do stem from this). A song of ice and fire had "sex scenes" but they were hardly graphic affairs that can have whole chapters dedicated to them unlike some Romantsy books.

[@chellyfishing]

@@Tojeaux_ it’s been a hot minute since I ready any song of ice and fire but I feel like he devotes more pages to talking about food than about sex

[@angela_merkeI]

Yeah, I was surprised how tame the sex scenes in Asoiaf were in contrast to GoT. There's only one sex scene that I even remember and that only because it haunts me. And people who are hardcore Asoiaf fans never state the sex scenes as the reason.

[@nourriadh6976]

@@chellyfishingthere is a YT video ranking all food descriptions throughout ASOIAF and IT’S LONG. probably my biggest pleasant surprise was compared to the sex scenes - which were pretty short and tame and mostly happened off screen - food descriptions were Martin’s true passion.

[@encyclopediaofelizabeth]

​@nourriadh6976 if you mean Alt Shwift X and Glimbus I think it took them at least 2 hours long videos, possible more? If you only saw one you may be in for a treat. Unless they edited it to one. Either way, their videos are fantastic.

[@krillias]

The Dragonriders of Pern is NOT romantasy lkljfaslkjfaslaskl yes there is some romance (and yes there's the whole romance/sex thing being blurred with riders and dragons), but the series as a whole is largely based in politics and world building/exploration. It's at its core science-fiction, the only fantasy element being the dragons really, but even then they're explained in a scientific way as opposed to a magical one. If you go into that series looking for romance, you will find it very dry lol, but I'd highly recommend it if you want to get lost in a wonderfully crafted world. It's a classic in sci-fi, and the first book is what won Anne McCaffrey the Hugo and the Nebula awards (first woman to win either award!)

[@elisroom9506]

i read a lot of Fantasie around 2012-2016 so I was obssesed with a Cort of thorns and roses. What for me stood out in this series was not only what you said the world building but mostly the fact that the love interest of the first book and the whole world portrayed in it had a total plottwist and switch up in the second book. This for me was so new and innovative! I loved that the author potrayed that a love relationship can turn toxic... and that charcters that seemed evil have more behind them. I dont read anymore since around 2020 so seeing this trend now is super interesting too me. I always loved Fantasy and Romance storys but I still think they need to have great world buidling and in depth characters to bring the special sparkel! after seeing this maybe I should try reading again :)

[@zachryder3150]

*LET HER COOK!*

[@86fifty]

8:04 - that's adorable! The store was like, 'no time to print a proper sign, just make one out of what we got!' LOL

[@2602Jorno]

ACOTAR and Fourth Wing are not very smutty, it’s true, but they are horny. They both spend a LOT of time building up sexual tension, and not enough time building plot, characters and themes. A lot of fantasy elements are written poorly (both these books are heavily criticised for their world-building and characterisation) and seem to lean on the romance to make the book readable. I would argue this is why a lot of fantasy readers don’t like them. AGOT, though it has a lot of sex, spends little time describing the sex and a lot of time describing its implications for the plot. E.g. Jaime and Cersei’s sex scene starts a war, while Dany and Drogo’s leads to pregnancy and an attempted assassination on Dany. Neither of these sex scenes are long, but their consequences run deep. The issue with spicy romantasy is not that it has sex, it’s that it sacrifices good fantasy writing in favour of, well, foreplay.

[@TheBWA2]

Love the visuals and transitions. Well done 😊 thank you for your opinion.

[@TerrisiaRouse]

I think often 'romantasy' and 'fantasy with romance' are categorised based on if they are marketed more towards a masc or fem audience

[@marina-gb6jz]

I would describe romantacy a bit differently. Essentially, it's just a romance in a fantasy setting. The fantasy element almost always is purely decorative. Because of that the worldbuilding is usually very lackluster and the world turns out to be incredibly flat and fool of plot holes and not enough logic. I enjoy fantasy. I want to read about an interesting and well-build world and characters. And I absolutely do not mind having a romantic subplot in a fantasy book. But as soon as the whole story becomes about the love life of main characters - I'm out. It's not a fantasy anymore, it's a stage with fantasy decorations and a couple of people fighting and making out. Also. It's not a new phenomenon. You can find an abundance of books like that published in the early 2000s. Well, it least in Russian you can. My master's thesis was about slavic mythology in modern Russian fantasy. I've gone through a ridiculous amount of books. And a very stereotypical romantacy has been prevalent since the beginning of 2000s. So when I saw the insane growth of it in English, I was a bit surprised that it's only happening now. My big problem wis romantasy is the repetitiveness. Read 5 of them and you basically read them all. It gets very boring very quickly because of how formulaic it is. Which is why I cannot understand how people only read romantsy, cause like... aren't you bored?😭

[@vlindors]

This is basically how I feel about the genre! I'm a girlie who loves fantasy and can also enjoy romance (provided, there's not much - mild smut). For some magical reason, many if not most romantasy authors struggle to put those genres together. There seems to be a heavy demand for smut, especially when spicy, that it just throws all the fantasy to the side.. It seriously downplays character development. It seems everyone is just here for the tropes (enemies to lovers, one bed, etc.) and archetypes (brooding bad boy meets shy, tiny girl), that they're barely 2 dimensional. Idk, maybe I'm just ranting 'cause im a sucker for slowburn, lol. Let's pray to the few good authors out there who genuinely put effort into their works to create something (hopefully) containing less smut, more romance and more fantasy! :)

[@xTenshiAi]

"his name is Kai..... with an X" that made me laugh hahah

[@GM-tu7di]

This was the most intelligent, well thought out, well researched discussion on the topic I have read! Bravo! Great video ❤

[@mariafotog]

Heard of that "an X of X and X" and my mind just thought "A Song of Ice and Fire" and I was like "oh...oh no" 😆

[@Gabbysreadingwell]

Your genre/trope thesis videos are always so amazing. Well researched, thought out, and explained. Absolutely loved this deep dive!

[@fluffy_walrus]

In theory, romantasy is my jam. I'd love a strong romance story nestled in a fantasy world. In reality, it just...misses the mark. I need believability in how and why the characters connect, i can not and will not suspend disbelief on that front, because otherwise what's the point? I need well crafted characters. I can endure clinical, bland, underwhelming prose. I can endure pacing and filler issues. I can endure weak worldbuilding, but not inconsistent or logically absurd ones like with Fourth Wing, which isn't a difficult bar to crawl over. But the characters need to be well crafted. They're often very weakly written. I prefer sapphic content, and there's barely any. Maybe one day it'll be worthwhile for me, but not today.

[@helensyoutube]

0:30 i’ll read that 😃🤣

[@sophiezosiamuszynski5170]

Girl is cooked

[@sophiezosiamuszynski5170]

( me too )

[@AverieMc]

In my opinion, the way I categorize romantasy is plot to romance ratio. If the romance is the main plot of the story then it’s romantasy. A romance with a fantasy setting, opposed to a fantasy with a side of romance.

[@stacybrown7863]

I bought the Night World Series in the 90s when it was marketed as supernatural. The series was published again sometime in the early 2000s following the success of Twilight, where they called it a dark romance (before the term meant violence and sadism). I wouldn't be surprised if they published them again as romantasy. And if they did, maybe they could do me a favour and publish the last two books so I know how it ends! 😁👍

[@brunettereader]

this is so interesting! thank you for examining romantasy complexly instead of just saying "ew smut!" even as someone who likes romantic fantasy more than romantasy, I find the intense hatred of smut in fantasy kind of... puritanical. That said, i really wish their writing was better bc i love the idea of romantasy! Maybe as the genre grows the writing will get better too, and the romances will get healthier.

[@katierasburn9571]

It’s because these writers cant write chemistry to save their lives so the smut is at best boring and at worst it makes me wish my ovaries would shrivel up. If someones praising a book for its spice i know immediately what im in for lol miss me

[@lilhonor5425]

Thank you for bringing up the role of publishers! The publishing industry is always following trends so genres are ‘created’ even if they have existed for decades and then those ‘new genres’ will rise in popularity and then peter out. Also the comment about Game of Thrones reminds me that at least back in the day when I was on tumblr shipping and romance was a big part of of the GOT/ASOIAF fandom, at least in corner I was in. I think romance is just a big part of storytelling it makes sense that people gravitate towards it in different genres. Even in children’s fantasy there are elements of romance, I just finished the first Redwall book and that book ends with two mice getting married and having a baby!

[@violetsidhe]

I am personally not a fan of Romantasy books then again I don’t really like romance books or YA . Maybe it’s the writing style of the authors that just doesn’t click with me. I am happy that it exists and it is bringing people to fantasy.

[@SlapsOnMute]

This is me. I don’t mind some romance subplots, but I don’t find romance interesting enough to hold up a story on its own.

[@remem95]

This. I prefer romance to kar a backseat and tie in to the deeper themes of a book rather than being the focal point.

[@Mermer-16]

Same. Romance on the side, please. Although I do love me some Jane Austen.

[@bxyamilabertoni382]

Love your deep dives! And the nuance with what you treat every subject you speak about.❤

[@T.A.Edison]

I don't really like romantasy. Not because I dislike romance or fantasy, but these books feel like a copy of each other just with different character names. The enemies to lovers trope is so overused, it's always a 'masculine alpha guy' and a 'stubborn petite girl'. If I wanted to read that I would just read fanfiction. Romantasy would appeal to me if it wouldn't be all about smut and flirting, but two soulmates finding each other in a cruel, dark world with omitting the 'traditional' gender roles, for example having a more shy boy and a more masculine girl. I just want more unique characters pls!!

[@isaontheoffbeat1126]

I totally agree with you!!

[@isaontheoffbeat1126]

I totally agree with you!!

[@jessicaluk74]

Fr I don't feel their so called tension at all

[@afantasyworld2]

Rain outside 🤝 a new Leonie's video, autumn has officially arrived😎🍂

[@remem95]

"There's alot of emphasis on meals and emails" Thanks subtitles

[@johnnyritenbaugh1214]

tbh, ACOTAR has its scenes that are basically the FL and ML texting each other... 😂

[@vsrivatsa100]

I love your deep dive videos, and book breakdowns! You should make more of them

[@Meadowmeadowmoo]

I was working at a bookstore when SJM was probably at her peak and nothing pissed me off more than having to stock the YA spotlight table with Silver Flames. While her books aren’t just straight up p0rn* that one definitely has excessive spicy scenes. I am against censorship but we need to market and label media with better intention and care.