Bosch 4th Gen Performance Line Ebike Motor Updates: 85Nm Torque, eMTB Refined, Extended Boost!

[@letthewindcome]

Its 2021 Bosch, its time to let us update the unit ourselves!

[@NWforager]

myself and i assume most ebikers may never afford a Bosch powered rig but i appreciate that they push the whole industry forward .

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Very well said, that's an awesome perspective! I spent a bunch on a Haibike years ago and then gave it to my uncle Greg who rides several times per week. That motor is still going strong, even after a brand new battery! They cost a lot, but they work well and last a long time. Here's the video with him from 2015 kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKa2fHaJe9qrmrs

[@RenePonder]

The Uncle Greg video is my favorite.

[@albertupardsnipec5988]

Have done 16000km on my basic bosch active line. Never had a single mechanical problem. Amazing machines.

[@leojonkers3181]

I still have a Bosch Classic standard motor. 8 years old, when I bought it already 1 year on the market. Works perfect for me. I own a Sparta Bs3, a all day bike. I riding the most on flat terrain, The Netherlands, but also on very hilly terrain and a holiday with camping gear from Switzerland to Rotterdam. (1300 km). As long as the motor works, I keep it. (never had a problem with it). I like to have a bicycle experience, so I use the tour mode 90%. We can have strong winds here and long time against those winds I sometimes use Sport. When I must climb I use Turbo. Battery still between 80 and 100 km, depending on the weather. If it is cold distance is less, if it is warm some more. Strong wind against you does not help, but you mostly do that on the half of your trip. When strong wind helps you in your back, you can use as little as possible eco. Often above 25 km per hour is possible. 400 Bosch battery ( I own 2 of them, I switch them all the time).

[@ElectricBikeReview]

It’s amazing how long listing these drive units can be! Glad to hear that yours is still performing well... even the battery. My uncle has owned and ridden a Haibike with Bosch CX weekly, and he did replace the battery, but it’s still going strong!

[@leojonkers3181]

@@ElectricBikeReview Bosch Is good. I even did not replace the battery, the 8 year old battery is still very good. I switch between them, all the time. Seems to work very well. If I do not long trips, lets say city drive, when I see the battery has still left III, I take it off and load my second battery. So normally I not go to the end of the battery. When I do very long trips, I often take the second battery with me, be care full that you do not drive your battery till there is no power left. On my long holiday where you can load your battery on camping place, I was really careful, never above tour because the distance was about 100 km on a day. Fill the battery up, not much left and use the full other battery for the coming day. So 100 km on one battery was possible. But then I really take care, never above tour. Was a crazy nice holliday. All alone the Rhine, not much climbing, but also not on a flat underground, mostly it was no asfalt. If something happens on my old current bike, I would chose another bike with a light Bosch motor. But where I am talking about, it feels this bike can do another 8 years...

[@paulthompson1a]

It would be great if Bosch did an update for the walk assist function so you could use it to pull away while on the bike, this would be very useful when pulling away from a standstill up a hill (Acive line plus)

[@ridingdeep8530]

Then it becomes a bike with a "throttle" negating it's Category 1 status - at least that's what I have read.

[@gintaraskriauciunas8718]

Can a Bosch active line 2 gen motor be tuned? And what specs can it hold? Because 40 Nm off torque is not enough at all.

[@moneymaking1268]

How do I differentiate between the third and fourth generation?

[@flyshacker]

Nice clarification on the updates! I’m supposed to get my new Superdelite Rohloff GX this week!!!! I’m so excited. I’m asking for the software updates (motor & Kiox) before I pick up, and I’m also asking for the mod to make the headlight switchable, so it isn’t always on. Might get Tannus tire inserts, too. BTW, the R&M forum on your EBR site has the best conversations. Those forums on EBR have become my most important social media! 👍👍👍

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Great call! I’m excited for you too, that’s an awesome bike. It has been nice to hear your little updates along the way... so close now! Thanks for the positive feedback about the forums! We try our best to make it a safe and positive space without too many ads etc. ;)

[@flyshacker]

ElectricBikeReview.com - Seriously, big thumbs up on the EBR forums. They are full of helpful, like-minded owners who always have interesting modifications, ideas, and plenty of interaction. It’s the best meeting place for owners I could hope to find. There may be other good sites, but I have no interest in looking for them. Nice job, Court, in getting all this started!! I’ll definitely post my initial reactions to the bike and my journey in the R&M forum.

[@ReYB-wi6hb]

How to know which generation of any motor from bosch?

[@suspect5420]

is there a high mid drive with a throttle? looking for something with a throttle but also a mid drive..something i can use around town and off road....maybe not break the bank doing it

[@oldtimer3824]

Suspect5 check DOST, I think 2-month wait time once ordered.

[@bondicraig37]

Very interesting, thanks!

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Sure thing, Craig! Glad you enjoyed it. Happy Friday!!

[@sereth.photography]

For the Performance Line CX, do you know which version number the update has? So I can check in the Kiox display if I have the latest update on my new ebike.

[@sokolsokol5603]

Good question. I think it is 1.1.2.0. The presenter is not into much Technical details

[@Idahomie]

A good articulate overview...

[@philiptuffs-wh7jp]

Hi would you know if all the bosch performance cx motor all generations have same retaining bolts to.frames . I have bought a used frame with no motor so need a motor 2019 frame .

[@Cerandus]

Active Line is actually for Europe due to legal reasons. In my country (The Netherlands) it's only allowed to have an ebike with a power up to 250 watt. The benefit is that it's legally considered a just a regular bicycle including all the legal protections that offers (Including the privilege to use cycling roads instead of the regular roads). The other motors have more than 250 watt and are due to that legally considered a "Motorbike" and needs a numberplate, is not allowed on cycling roads etc. Which is a huge inconvenience..

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Thanks for the feedback! Do you also have the Active Plus and Performance there?

[@vliegticketnews]

Cerandus sorry, but that’s not correct, also here in NL the full range of Bosch motors (incl 2021) is legally and fully available in 25km versions in any good bike shop. Probably 250w version then but specs are the same!

[@Cerandus]

The full bosch line is indeed available over here but things are slightly more complicated due to the legal definition of an ebike. Effectively you lose any benefit of a higher wattage than 250W (Unless you wish into a speed pedelec of course, which has the same legalization as a motorcycle which are usually less favourable). Source (ANWB): www.anwb.nl/fiets/diefstal-veiligheid/wetten-en-regels-elektrische-fietsen Source (National Government of the Netherlands): www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/fiets/vraag-en-antwoord/welke-regels-gelden-voor-mijn-elektrische-fiets-e-bike (It's in dutch. But google translate helps. ANWB is a non-profit organization/club that is quite large over here. The other URL is of the national government). A translation: (Legal) Definitions of an ebike: - The bicycle has pedal assistance up to 25 km/h - You have to use the pedals to move (Aka: No throttle) - The motor of the bicycle has a maximum capacity of 250 watt. The rules of the ebike are the same of a normal bicycle: - No driving license rquired - No liability insurance required - There is no minimum age - You are required to use cycling paths where available. - You don't have to wear a helmet If it doesn't have the requirements above it is most likely a speed pedelec and has the same laws as a motorcycle. Source of speed pedelec information (National government of the Netherlands): www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/fiets/vraag-en-antwoord/welke-regels-gelden-voor-speed-pedelec (It's in Dutch. I highly recommend using Google translate).

[@TeddysVentures]

Thank you for another great video! Did Bosch indicate when the actual release date is this Summer of 2020? I am just wondering when I should plan to inquire with my Trek dealer for my Allant+ 7S with the gen 4 performance speed line motor.

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Great question! No, I wasn’t given a specific date. I got the impression that it would be before the end of July. If you or others get confirmation or hear differently, I welcome feedback!

[@janethart3155]

Thanks for sharing.

[@ElectricBikeReview]

You're welcome, Janet! Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it :D

[@valkrys68]

That's great for the two wheel community, but what about the recumbent trike community?

[@90slimit1]

Does Bafang do this? Any of this on their technology?

[@omarmald]

Can you do a review on joulvert ebikes I want to have a opinion on them for someone that has experience on ebikes, journey pro

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Hey Omar! I have heard of them, will keep an eye out to do a review. Haven’t seen one in person yet.

[@omarmald]

so I'm 280lb and live in nyc I travel to different location from Williamsburg Brooklyn to china town and dumb Brooklyn any suggestion?

[@Seriallchiler]

Hi,can i update my bosch performance line cx 4 motor from ktm 2019 with this update? And how? Or people must buy a new motor with this software

[@jamesquigley8628]

As an active line owner I'm just SOL, right? JQ

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Haha, oh man! Hope I didn't make you feel bad, do you like it? I've tested that motor a couple of times hot off a performance or Active Plus and to me, it just felt so weak. It's the most efficient and usually comes with a PowerPack 400, so it's good that it makes the battery last. It's a big jump from a non-electric bike. I just like the faster sportier feel ;)

[@jamesquigley8628]

@@ElectricBikeReview Lots of money down the tubes. But my wife might use it and then I could get a bike for myself with more JUICE! Pun intended. JQ

[@jamesquigley8628]

I forgot to say I do really like the bike, my first ped assist though I test rode a spunkier Trek mountain bike of a higher speed Bosch power system.

[@Donovan_frost_bmx]

Current firmware identification number? How can i check if my motor is Current, my bosch dealer doesn't appear to be very competent

[@dj_ath]

Could you do a review of the Fezzari Wire Peak?

[@NemoEUC]

I would love to see you and Micah Toll collab on a video. That would be so awesome!

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Yeah! Me too, that’s a neat idea. I met Micah once at a bike event a couple years back. He seemed cool :)

[@drewgilker417]

why not cx gen 3 ?

[@ElectricBikeReview]

I think the hardware is very different. Gen 3 has the reduction gearing design and is physically larger and heavier than Gen 4. Sorry Drew :/

[@rv8pilot1]

I'm confused, is this update available for my 2019 Trek SuperCommuter 8+?

[@ElectricBikeReview]

I know right!! This was super confusing for me too at first. Here's how you can tell. Does your motor have a big chainring or the smaller proprietary chainring? If it's big, does the motor casing look like the Active Line or does it look more compact like these 4th generation modes (CX, Speed, Cargo, Cargo Speed). If all else fails, does the spindle have standard ISIS spline interface, or the smaller Bosch Narrow Interface (BNI). That should be enough to help you figure it out. Then, just take it to the dealer and ask for the new summer 2020 software with "Extended Boost"

[@rv8pilot1]

@@ElectricBikeReview Ok, thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, my SuperCommuter has the old speedline motor

[@johnhvardexcel]

Can anyone answer if the new Nyon navigates without a smartphone on the bike ride. (built-in map)

[@gordjohnson70]

Pls. include wheelie ability in all your reviews. I'm an old fart now over 70, but did a lot of wheelies in my youth. Lotsa guys care about that, even guys like me who are part of the Geritol Generation.

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Lol, that's awesome Gord!! To be honest, I never mastered the wheelie... I can get up, but then I usually tip to the sides or back down to the front. I've been able to go over the back to, onto my feet, but with my knee injury it becomes painful. I might have to embrace my own limitations and cheer others on at this point :P

[@gordjohnson70]

@@ElectricBikeReview Hmm ? Sounds like ya might need trainng wheels there young feller !

[@skyak4493]

What I think is missing from this video is the system requirements. You don't understand why there are so many versions. If you consider the cost, weight, and battery life I think it would all make sense. What I see is a company with an idea to be a big player in Ebikes made a premium product. The mass market went lower cost and the people who want to pay ended up being commercial users and the rich. Instead of trying to give onions on what you like (you don't pay so of course you prefer the top model) , tell us the cost and limitations of the consumer models.

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Thanks for the feedback! The limitation of the entry level Active Line that most frustrates me is the lower 105 RPM motor support vs. 120. It also has way less torque at 40Nm vs. 85Nm on the Performance CX, Speed, and Cargo models :)

[@skyak4493]

@@ElectricBikeReview To clarify, the lower motor speed number, does that mean that you can peddle fast enough that the motor does not contribute power? That would be annoying. Even if it is rare, when the rider says full power it must give full power. I suspect the active line is lower voltage but I can't seem to find the spec.s compared.

[@sollieutube]

share.icloud.com/photos/0Od87vNXnkhxqxEG4dL8zhZ6w These motors show latest firmware updates with MY20: 1.1.0.0 having the 85nm update.

[@minniesaab7255]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@1650million]

I see wrinkles, white hairs everywhere... Where´s the kid who started this channel like a couple of weeks ago? :P Nah, just busting your balls, mate. Time flies for everybody... P.S. As someone interested in bike touring, I´ve always liked the Active Plus motors, since they´re way more efficient than the Performance CX, so if the newest Performance line gives us a slightly higher torque and higher cadences, it could be THE way for me, al least in the Bosch system. Best!

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Yeah, the new Performance Line motor (that looks like the two Active) could be the sweet spot of efficiency, weight, and still some good performance characteristics like 120 RPM and 75nm of torque. I do like Active Line Plus as well, it's probably the lowest I'd go because I'm still a kid at heart and like to go zoom zoom :D

[@Anthony_Aú.GreenParty]

This motor is held in place by only 3 bolts? I'm a noob, so I'm concerned about this, "Take the motor off in just 5 minutes: only three bolts lock the motor in place."

[@sdiburro1]

I send away for the delfastbike that goes 230 miles on a charge at 30 miles a hour for all most $6,000 have you heard of that kind of bike

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Hi Scott, yeah! That name rings a bell. Sounds like a neat setup, is it technically a motorcycle or moped because of the higher speed cap? I’d love to hear your thoughts if you’re getting one or have tried it.

[@sdiburro1]

ElectricBikeReview.com I am getting it in three or four months I probably have to get use to it riding around the area then I can go far with it I need some kind of helmet with a face shield I can breathe with I want to block the wind on me

[@TheHeadAngle]

Yeah Bosch have a policy of not being involved in any military engineering, but to be fair they kinda ruined it for themselves back in the 1940’s 😂

[@VictorP-l6h]

..at 6'13"..."and won quite some awards"...what??

[@thejose24]

I would trade my Bosch washer and dryer for an E-Bike with a Bosch mid drive motor.

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Lol, that's awesome! But... have your washer and dryer actually worked okay for you?! :D

[@thejose24]

@@ElectricBikeReview Lol it's not perfect. Still waiting for my Ride1Up 500, 2 more weeks! Love your vids!

[@armchairwanderer1287]

🚴‍♂️🚴‍♂️

[@o00scorpion00o]

High speed, you got to be joking ? E.U limit of 25 Km/h is not high speed it's a joke.

[@Zach-s5g]

Bafang ultra all the way

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Yeah, I haven’t spent as much time with that motor as I’d like. Do you have a bike with it? What do you think :)

[@wouldyoudomeakindnes]

is not all about power, in Europe within city limits for liability reason's i'd rather pay for legal bike. Bafang is nice but imo is a product for a different market

[@curtn7076]

I have a beifang midrive I installed on a cruiser and love it. Simple powerful and a nice smooth throttle. "German" engineering IS overpriced and often convoluted with unnecessary features. I have 3030 miles on my mid drive biefang 750w..I can go 29mph on throttle and a 50mile range when I peddle assist.

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Nice! Which motor do you have? Sounds like maybe a BBS02 if you’ve had it for a while and bolted on to an existing bike frame :)

[@curtn7076]

@@ElectricBikeReview I've had it for three or four years and it's a little dangerous lol.. because I put old timey rim brakes that are sketchy on this old Marin Cruiser that had coaster brakes that now can't be used.. I've had this bike up to about 35mph while full throttle and peddling. It's torquey too! Throttle is must in my opinion..it takes away the guessing when the initial burst of power of peddle assist cadence sensor initiates from 0 mph. Keep up the good work! :-)

[@michaelmorris1802]

hrm... anti gun (Anti Constitutional... Anti "real" American). Nope not one cent of my money.

[@ElectricBikeReview]

Bosch is a German company, so perhaps this goes back to the history of that country and WWII. I hesitated to mention it because there are so many angles to consider, but I was told that they don't make weapons. That's it, hope you're having a good day Michael :)

[@andrewfyip]

They're anti-weapons in general. I don't get how that is un-American unless you equate the United States with guns. I'd much rather purchase from a company that adheres to good nonviolent principles than to buy cheaper motors made in China. Overall, just an odd point to make. They're a private company that can choose to not make weapons parts. It really is sad that American culture is equated to unfettered marketing and ownership of guns.