(1837) Supra iBox BT LE Milled Open & Explored

[@plopnl1]

Send the lock to big clive and have him explain how the board works Edit: let's extend the idea based on the discussion below. @bigclivedotcom can explain the workings of the board. Tell us what the cap is used for. And as Bill couldn't see a charge port it might be interesting how that's done. Maby after that the lock can be send on to @deviantolam, he might know someone able to find exploids, but remember the jtag isn't available when the lock is used, so the exploit should work via Bluetooth

[@richieyeah]

that's a real nice idea, would like to see a Collab with big clive

[@carpdog42]

Honestly, without analysis of the actual electronics, nothing can really be known. Realistically, the source code needs to be available as well; how else can we be sure there are no universal back door codes? This thing could be swiss cheese to anyone who knows a specific number...and there would be basically no way to prove it by just cutting it open.

[@fearofchicke]

@@carpdog42 That’s why everyone wants it sent to Big Clive.

[@carpdog42]

@@fearofchicke As much as I love Big Clive's channel, the best he will be able to do is show you how the ICs interface; Its what goes on inside the ICs where the details with potential devils lie. Without the source code, that is a reverse engineering job beyond any youtuber I have seen, even the guys who use electron microscopes on decapped chips.

[@pepzi_]

@@carpdog42 maybe mikeselectricstuff could have a chance? Also, on the back side of the PCB there seems to be a JTAG that may be vulnerable depending on the FPGA or whatever the main chip is.

[@curtiswebster8095]

Big Clive's accent changed

[@ralph972]

"One moment please"

[@BD90..]

The clive of locks

[@PINKFL0YD-s2h]

Clive is cool

[@badjuju6563]

BigClive should be sent the pics of the circuitry for reverse engineering

[@ralph972]

@@badjuju6563 Now I want to see that!

[@GrassDaddy]

Very cool. Glad to see you posting again, haven't seen you post since last year!

[@longrodjohnson6399]

Lol 😂

[@bowzerdude5646]

No, he had a video out last week?

[@danareed1656]

@@bowzerdude5646 exactly ,,, last year lol

[@GrassDaddy]

@@danareed1656 🤣🤣🤣

[@longrodjohnson6399]

@@bowzerdude5646 and that was last year 🙃

[@BCM1959]

I loaned my firewood splitter to a neighbor and chained it to a tree with locks that i do not have a key for. I have confidence in my rudamentary skills some of which i got by watching this channel and a couple of others. Thank you Bill. The locks are masterlocks #3s so it's not like I'm doing anything impressive. But to non-pickers it looks good.

[@jock-of-ages73]

Ooh, a Microtech Halo. That's a good friend you have there.

[@i_sometimes_leave_comments]

I cried inside when you scraped the board so roughly with the screw driver

[@richardgoebel226]

His thumbnails are not quite tough enough to do the job.

[@colinstu]

why? I don't think it's going back together lol.

[@HSishi]

Me too, because it was still an active device. He might have caused shortcuts - a shortcut Lithium battery is no fun and can heat up until it explodes.

[@P_RO_]

I'm going to have to pick up one of these; I see a non-electronic bypass possibility. I work on houses, and am sometimes called on to do a repair on a vacant house going to or already on the market. Once in awhile I get on-site to discover that the owner's or contractor's box which I have to code for has been changed to one of these. You see lots of comments on locksport vids about it helping thieves but they also help a lot of folks like me with a legitimate and legal need to get past the lock as well as informing lock buyers on which choices are better for them. Thieves ain't going to go through the trouble or expense because they don't care whether they break something or not; they have a crowbar and they're in. This is the reality of it.

[@Gh0st620]

As I was suspecting, I didn't see anything that looked like an inductive coil. So I looked it up. User guide states "You never need to replace the battery in the iBox because it uses a long-life lithium battery. No maintenance is required and the battery is designed to last the life of the product - a minimum of six years. When removing the shackle on the iBox, your key will display the current battery level in the iBox. The battery level is also sent to the Supra data center and can be viewed on SupraWEB." In other words. you have a disposable lock. How much does that thing cost?

[@louissancio8904]

They are not for sale. Supra leases them to Real Estate Associations who in turn sublet them to realtors. Even the keys are leased for those not using their phone.. Supra keeps a log of every time it is open including who's key was used, time and date.

[@neverendingstudent]

This seems like a terrible design. You can end up with a battery failure that prevents you from retrieving the stored keys without destructive methods. How bad would it have been to include some sort of charging capability?

[@TheBertjeT]

@@neverendingstudent I don't see the problem. They just tap it open like Bill did! :D But yes, stupid all around.

[@LenserX]

@@louissancio8904 what kind of message is sent when the shackle has been tapped open? I presume the box is still being tracked unless otherwise disabled.

[@louissancio8904]

@@LenserX I don't know. I asked my realtor wife how much they cost. She won't let me tap one open to find out as the real estate commission here loves giving out fines.

[@William_Borgeson]

As someone who works in information technology it was very satisfying to watch you destroy that thing Bill, thanks!

[@visualist6x6]

Hey Bill! Thanks for supporting other locksporters and continuing to show and tell us all about such cool stuff! Stay safe, especially with that knife! :)

[@w.r.salomon1058]

Thanks for all Happy New Year !

[@ericday604]

Very VERY nice gift!! That knife is outstanding!! A nice return for all you have done for the locksport community!!

[@daveh7720]

I didn't see anything on that board that looked like a wireless charging pickup. It's possible that battery is just a permanent "lifetime" battery. Lithiums will hold a charge about ten years, so it's not unheard of. (You can get smoke detectors with permanent batteries. Instead of having to remember to replace your batteries twice a year, you just replace the detector every ten years. That's about how long the sensors in them last, so you'll replace them that often anyway.) That big capacitor is probably to help power the solenoids. When they pull in to open the lock they'll draw a big pulse of current, and that could drag down the battery voltage low enough to reset the microprocessor. The cap will help prop up the voltage so that won't happen.

[@chaz720]

“You can get smoke detectors with permanent batteries.” ... smoke detectors with replaceable batteries are prohibited where I live because the government doesn’t think much of people.

[@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936]

@@chaz720 What is more important.... your entertainment items that need a 9V battery, or a smoke detector that only goes off when you make a steak ? One of the few times the gubbermint is right.... Plus, even with normal batteries, the redioactive component and optical chamber reach an end of life at about 9 years..... so they really do well to sodder a batteria inside, and save on the molding of a trap door and contacts, as well as a few assembly steps.

[@HSishi]

@@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936 "Radioactive" Smoke detectors aren't allowed anymore in Germany. Also, someone placing a standard smoke detector in a kitchen is kind of dumb ... The other things about the 10-years lifetime the detectors is right. The detectors age or simply get dirty, so after the 10-year lifetime I won't trust the detector to actually detect a beginning fire anyway.

[@chaz720]

@@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936 "What is more important.... your entertainment items that need a 9V battery, or a smoke detector that only goes off when you make a steak ?" I'm sorry, but this question is incoherent. I am not implying that the *availability* of sealed 10-year-battery smoke detectors is a bad thing. There's no cost-savings to the consumer (manufacturers raise the price) and not all operating environments allow you to enjoy the full ten years before they malfunction and need to be replaced. It would be nice to have an option but for the government deciding for me I can't trust myself to keep a fresh battery in something.

[@Oogadoog]

@@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936 others might not, but I get it. Maybe we're just old and have ingrained memories of 80's smoke detectors that hate steak, burnt toast, and love to start chirping at 2 AM from low battery...

[@markdarden4066]

The pile of rubble of what’s left of the lock is awesome!

[@tinylockpicksinc.1758]

If the lock is not rare or collectible the answer is always going to be open it up love your videos keep up the good work

[@alanross982]

Happy New Year everybody! Hopefully 2021 brings better times for us all.

[@tenkillcombo]

No induction charging coil so it's probably a use it till it dies thing.

[@gungxi4219]

The hooks on the keybox are in the opposite direction as the shackle's. Locks like you might be able to leave it hanging on the door handle, clip a weight on the tab on the bottom of the keybox and beat it until the keybox falls out.

[@billcarson1966]

Thanks for disassembling that sucker! LOL

[@billhenderson731]

No day off? That’s dedication to the community 👍 Yup, it’s good to see other videos on the lock lab website, as you say; lots of talent out there.

[@peterkelley6344]

Saying this as anovice: That's far more than what I was expecting!

[@kzookid2051]

I've had one of those sitting around since I bought my house 4 years ago - the realtor didn't want it because they were being upgraded. It now belongs to my lock picking-learning son. With no mill or grinder it'll be interesting to see how he does.

[@highinquisitor0083]

Had no idea so much was offered on the website. Gotta go check it out.

[@LabRatJason]

BTLE stands for Blue Tooth Low Energy... it probably never gets charged because it was manufactured with all the power it needs. The capacitor is to provide enough current to hold the locking pawls open for several seconds so the user can push the shackle, or the key box, and allow it to open. I bet your magnetic storm tool would have opened it up if you could focus on the solenoids.

[@andrewsmart8996]

congrats. my first video of the new year!

[@CHP-Pan]

Happy 2021 Bill, loved watching your vids over the past few years.

[@tinylockpicksinc.1758]

Love your username

[@bobgsmith101011]

I suspect that the metal plates are used to block Magnetic fields on the solenoids.

[@rollbot]

exactly what i thought when seeing them too... they are probably able to be activated easily with a magnet if those multi layer shields arent there... maybe even able to activate them WITH THEM in place... @Bosnianbill can you try a large magnet next to those solenoids on both sides/the side without the shield?

[@HSishi]

@@rollbot I think he tried that ... or at least mentioned he tried.

[@waynemorris443]

Love the view of your naughty bucket. Some awesome locks in there!

[@jameswallace4794]

Thanks Bill. Happy new year

[@rj8665]

Happy New Year Bill and everyone. Thank you for the videos and the update on the LockLab site. I am looking forward to the updates and more videos.

[@cmarano]

Hope you had a wonderful New Year's Eve Bill. Thanks for all the work you're doing for the community. I look forward to seeing more picks, more promotion of other lockpick channels, more giveaways and the expanded library. You are really showing Locksport in the best light.

[@JasonW.]

AvE would have a day with all that silicon carne. Big Clive would have taken macro pics printed out on A1 size paper. ElectroBoom would have "tested" the battery output.

[@idkidk4334]

That noise the knife made

[@twjohnson1203]

Episode 27 "Someone is breaking into the house!" "Don't worry I borrowed Bill's Christmas present."

[@yetanotherstronk]

I had a look at the manual (Bill, I googled it!). The battery is non-rechargeable and not designed to be replaced. Supposedly it lasts the design life of the lock, which is 'at least 6 years'. Each to their own... Regarding the floppy shackle with that gap: I guess I'm just slow. I assume it's because of the ridged solenoid actuators which seem designed to make rapping it open harder (though clearly not hard enough to delay an expert).

[@madcapmagician6018]

Lol love it bill... Just rips into the insulation with a screwdriver 😆😆

[@pebosk]

I love all the different intros, a lot of talent and time. Great video too.....

[@TheUniquePlumberman]

As some are noting: send the motors & board to Big Clive & the aluminum body to BigstackD down under. Cheers mate! Happy new year Bill!

[@derekbowbrick6233]

All the best in the New Year.

[@hemmethemma8081]

Hi Bill! Thx for a interesting tareapart. Could yo do a closeup photo on each side of the circuit board?

[@parapicktog7734]

Interesting. And that's a cool switchblade.

[@johnmorgan1629]

New Years treat for everyone a cross between Bill's usual fayre and Big Clive. You could pass it on to him and make it semi-collaboration, he does electronics teardowns.

[@BCM1959]

This is the third comment that mentions " Big Clive " . Now I'm curious, who is Big Clive? Time to do a channel search...

[@johnmorgan1629]

@@BCM1959 He's from Scotland but lives on the Isle of Man. Does teardowns of electrical and electronic products mainly, from cheap and cheerful, to odd, from light bulbs bigger electrical stuff, including vids from the Edinburgh Tattoo where he works with a crew that does the shows lighting etc.

[@BCM1959]

@@johnmorgan1629 thanks. I found his channel and subbed. Interesting stuff.

[@johnmorgan1629]

@@BCM1959 Glad you found it interesting and subbed.

[@waddac2]

Love that knife Bill... I want one.

[@SolutionUrbaine]

Thanks for all your great reviews

[@rchaffer]

0:22 That is the most frickin' terrifying knife I've ever seen. I bet it's claimed a fair few curious eyes.

[@scott_meyer]

Found the flyer from the manufacturer. It's a "lifetime" battery. Company is owned by Carrier..

[@bmitch3020]

Had a feeling it wasn't induction when I couldn't make out any coils, and induction is unlikely to get through the metal case. Just means this lock is disposable junk once the battery dies, rather sad.

[@scott_meyer]

@@bmitch3020 Some of those batteries can last up to 10 years. PDF says 6 years minimum.

[@bmitch3020]

@@scott_meyer and yet so many other things around my house are older than that. I've made a point to get things with replaceable batteries when possible, rather than throwing them away in 5 years when they stop holding a charge. This is a step in the opposite direction.

[@carpdog42]

@@scott_meyer Does it fail open? If not then its literally a 6 year count down till the day that you call a lock smith (or grab power tools)

[@scott_meyer]

@@carpdog42 Don't know. I expect the app has a low battery warning.

[@bradw0535]

Nice job Bill, now that is a successful gutting! 😁 Happy New Year to you and yours Bill, and to the LockLab tribe!

[@NicholasAarons]

Very Lucky Guy Bill With Your New Microtech Auto. Great Video As Always. Keep up the great work. Nick🧔🏽, Lock Pick Nick 🔓.

[@thumperlockpicking9269]

Very well done video. Thank you Bill

[@roysammons2445]

Autopsy complete. This lock suffers from the same issue as those cheap safes with a weak solenoid. Thanks for the autopsy Bill

[@Mr.Beauregarde]

Thank you

[@RocRizzo]

Happy New Year Bill!

[@lmars5933]

😎HAPPY NEW YEARS BILL and your better half..what a fantastic video looking forward to the new changes looks exciting my friend..😎

[@gozzendk]

Thanks for the video. Happy New and safe Year 🔑👍

[@novo1178]

Great video. Thanks Bill.

[@skygh]

Well now we know. Thanks Bill.

[@martinharper5112]

Happy New Year all

[@shredct3118]

Happy New Year Bill. 👍

[@3dalex13l3]

Love your videos and website!!! Happy New Year!!

[@mrgoose3213]

You are amazing and of course keep up the good work the nice quality videos and we all appreciate the giveaways 2021 is my year to win. Congratulations to all the winners of 2020

[@royae08]

Coolest intro animation yet, Bill!

[@yveslegh]

Happy New year !

[@stevehanes1268]

Happy New Year Bill, and continued success as you grow the channel!

[@lpm55]

Nice video.

[@going_dark6680]

You did a great job taking it apart now show us how to put it back together now lol

[@user-dx8dc1be5k]

I hope you do a giveaway of the parts, I sure could re-purpose the parts into a hidden safe lock. Better then a landfill.

[@RAkers-tu1ey]

Looks like a good product. Too bad about the one flaw. Thanks

[@SkyOctopus1]

I assume they've thought of it, but presumably the solenoid has its spring-loaded lugs out when it's unpowered? If not, you could possibly drill through where they join the PCB and they'll retract?

[@rbrazz]

TJ sure is nice!, Thats a $650 Microtech (when you are lucky enough to find them in stock) with some the best premium steel like Bohler M390.

[@unknown112358]

It would be great to have a clean high resolution photo of both sides of the circuit board so we can identify chips.

[@Westhelockpicker]

There is a giveaway on a small channel right now and he wants to know how we got started in locksport but I told him someone did this few years ago and almost everybody got their start because of you including me lol

[@danareed1656]

great video looking forward to see the new stuff

[@robomoto5550]

HAPPY NEW YEAR BILL.

[@longrodjohnson6399]

Happy new year bill

[@thelockpickinglebowski633]

Very cool gutting. Definitely worth it! Thanks. Would be awesome if your site hosted picking/gutting videos by Tallan Pick, if he's not already featured on there.

[@stevef.m.2188]

Thanks BB Happy new year

[@BadKarma714]

I think that was a Bluetooth sensor I think they’re really easy to open my friend is a realtor all they do is look at where they’re at And it gives them the unlock Bluetooth signal code or some thing like you need a app

[@yossisalama7533]

Happy new years bill all the best!!

[@pileofstuff]

Most of the Supra manuals I have seen say the battery is non-replacable and non-rechargable. For their Tracess vault lids they claim a 7 year battery operational life.

[@Alx-SG]

Happy New Year gang!

[@piercer4882]

Send the board to big Clive to reverse engineer!

[@chadwickmyers3285]

Knowing how these boxes are designed and their function you had a great cursory opinion of what you saw. Some of it is a little off like the cap is used for the solenoids which are activated for only a few seconds at a time when released. In my area, we "buy" the lock for a flat fee and being a Realtor in good standing they just replace the lock anytime we bring it back so it can be shipped off for reconditioning. The keys will never get stuck inside unless your Realtor is a complete moron and doesn't monitor the status of their lockboxes. Access is a bluetooth interface but I am pretty sure the data transmission is based on some really old 1g or 2g cell tech because the data transmitted is very minimal. Data transmitted is usually an agent ID, time of access, time lock has been reclosed. Under regular use they typically last over 6 years before you need to trade it in for a new box. With low usage they are good for about 10 years. The electronics are dormant when not in use and to "wake up" the lock to access you press the key holder up into the lock which tells it to look for the bluetooth signal of the agent accessing it.

[@ColAuctioneer]

Happy New Year !

[@danareed1656]

wow nice knife!

[@lucast3006]

Be careful not to open that knife when it’s in your pocket! 😳😉🤣

[@donnierobertson3088]

Great job and video like always

[@RWBHere]

Some questions about this: 1) How is the battery recharged? I can see no inductive loop antenna anywhere in that circuitry. Unless that large 'I.C.' is the antenna? 2) When the battery is discharged, and legitimate access is required, how can the lock be opened? If it is being used 'in the field', and quick access is required when the battery dies, there seems to be no obvious way to give the battery enough of a boost to allow for the lock to be removed. It would seem to be impractical to carry an inductive charger around, just in case a battery in a lock goes flat, and few realtors are experts with a bump hammer.

[@fearofchicke]

Send the board to Big Clive.

[@kevinduncan7678]

HAPPY NEW YEAR TRIBE

[@THR33STEP]

Starting off the new year with destruction!!! I LOVE IT!!! Hey Bill, what brand of milling machine do you have there?

[@cavemansparkey4949]

Happy New Year

[@zumbazumba1]

A universal key to every lock is a angle grinder !

[@motizer]

If the solenoids are the same, can you also “rap” the key box out like the shackle attack?

[@dlevi67]

It's a lot harder to tension and there is much less side-to-side play, so you'd need both sides of the solenoid to retract at the exact same time - Bill covers this at 2:45. My guess would be no.

[@MoseyingFan]

2 identical solenoids to to keep the BOM down, easier to source parts.

[@wtechboy18]

"this little battery couldn't generate too much wattage" My dude, modern lithium cells are absurdly powerful. A set of LG HG2 18650 cells can do up to 80A at around 3V, that's nearly a quarter of a kilowatt. It won't do it for longer than about 30 seconds, but it'll still generate ungodly amounts of heat in the meantime. That cell looks like it's about half an 18650, so at the very least I'd expect it to be able to push out around a hundred watts for a brief period of time.

[@rollatorwieltje]

This is a lithium manganese type battery (CR 2/3 AA) , basically a massive button cell. It's designed for sub-milliampere applications. The large capacitor probably isn't for memory backup, but for supplying enough peak current to operate the solenoid.

[@tomwilliams8675]

Wait aren't you going to put it back together for the giveaway? 😁😄😆 Thanks Bill Happy New Year 🥳🤝🤝👍👍👍👍

[@penfold7800]

So it looks like it's well designed, except the manufacturer that made the solenoids didn't make the locking pins long enough. It looks like it was designed to trap and seize the solenoid pins in the cutouts in the shackle, to prevent the rapping attack from working. But somehow, Thier quality assurance team missed that the solenoids aren't up to specification. So let's hope they see your teardown and rectify the problem.

[@Prophes0r]

I'm interested in seeing how those solenoids react when you put a big fat magnet near them. or that magnet/drill toy you have.

[@scott_meyer]

I hope that button on the knife is hard to push. I'd hate to have it activate in a pocket.

[@TuttleScott]

surprise vasectomy!

[@HSishi]

Yes, that is a scaaary knife. I think that size isn't allowed to be carried around in the public in Germany. Even if it's shorter than the tolerated blade length, some places even don't allow shorter knives.

[@JohnSmith-gs4lw]

It’s an auto, which means it’s not legal to carry in several US states. You can own it, just can’t carry it. And most Microtechs are wildly overpriced for what they are. If some “friend” gave him that as a gift, that is a good friend indeed. And no, there is no guard on the trigger. You push, it fires. Their most popular model has a slide switch that you can slide back and forth to both deploy and retract the blade. They are expensive fidget toys.

[@TuttleScott]

I prefer double action auto's myself. they take a lot more force to open and close.

[@prestonkelley3677]

But microtech has very nice tolerances. It would take a miracle to activate that in the pocket.

[@monchavo]

that's a gloriously engineered knife, one that would get you very arrested in the United Kingdom!

[@peterkelley6344]

And other places in the World.