Bowline or Butterfly?

Рет қаралды 3,310

5 ай бұрын

Today we discuss whether a Bowline is better than a Butterfly knot.
Which would you use??
Find me on Instagram:
/ zaccheustree
#arborist #treeclimbing #knottying #knots #treework

Пікірлер: 70

@timothyboone5003 5 ай бұрын

I’m glad I’m not the only one who has had this problem with the Alpine Butterfly knot. I’ve had a couple of them get jammed like this.

@groundpounder24365 5 ай бұрын

Gooooood morning Mr. Flat Flopper...Gp is plowing snow this morning. We got hammered with 14"+ Have a great day tree homie

@Sethhaun78 5 ай бұрын

That's sweet..

@geoffreygreen297 5 ай бұрын

I’m jealous 😢. Have a blessed day GP

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Whoa! You'll be out for awhile then! We only got a couple inches blowing around and Temps below 10° with some wind. Stay safe out there!

@Zogg1281 5 ай бұрын

That alpine butterfly turn into a knife knot! 😂 👍👍👍👍

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Haha it absolutely did, but I was determined to get it apart!

@robertbutler8005 5 ай бұрын

Nice test. When you have a knot that locks up in rope or webbing the best thing I’ve found to undo one is to use a large wood mallet or plastic dead blow hammer and a block of wood as a back stop. By hitting on the loops in the knot your trying to loosen they usually start moving. Way easier on the rope jacket than prying with a screw driver or Marlin spike. In the field the flat back of an axe and a larger cut off with end grain work. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos

@robertbutler8005 5 ай бұрын

This has saved many a bull rope after it’s been hauled on by a forwarder or log truck grapple

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Thanks for mentioning that method! I'll definitely have to give that a try!

@stephencentola 5 ай бұрын

Great demonstration my man. I’ve never relied on the alpine for a heavy load. Boline for the win! Lol that being said I believe every knot has their purpose and this video proves it!

@osagejon8972 5 ай бұрын

"A good knot is easy to tie, holds well, and easy to untie." Ashley book of knots. If you haven't had a chance to peruse that book remind me next time we get together and I'll bring it.

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Mmm I think I've heard of it, but never read it!

@rtgirard 5 ай бұрын

i agree... i overloaded a butterfly once and had to toss the rope aside for the day as it wasn't untying there in the backyard at that moment. bowline on a bight is much better for loaded knots, you just have to know what you're using it for.

@geoffreygreen297 5 ай бұрын

Don’t put up with no crap! You are a great climber and rigger. You are intelligent and getting smarter every day. Keep up the great work.

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Thanks Geoffrey! Thats mighty kind of you to offer those encouraging words! Thank you 😊

@Wildwoodjake 5 ай бұрын

They both have their specialties…of course the running bowline for rigging and butterfly for anchoring work for me. The butterfly can be used to isolate a bad section of rope.

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Absolutely, that's what I use them for aswell.

@TreeandLawnSteward 5 ай бұрын

That was very informative.😊

@dankotos61 5 ай бұрын

That was pretty interesting cool

@WaynePolcin 5 ай бұрын

I always use the AB, but never under heavy loads. It’s great for midline tying of canopy anchor cinches. In those applications, it’s never hard to untie. For most other applications, I use either a running bowline or bowline on a bite. I have tried figure eights on a bite, but they can be a bear to untie after heavy loads too. When knots bind up like that, I use the marlinspike on bosun’s knife to loosen the rope without damaging the it. Great video, my friend!

@devinbarcelona4437 5 ай бұрын

Try a circus bowline (aka farmers loop). Extremely similar to alpine, in my opinion easier and faster to tie, and unlike an alpine butterfly, it comes untied after a heavy load. I have completely deleted the alpine butterfly from my memory its completely useless with the existence of the circus bowline!

@boomupengineering 5 ай бұрын

@@devinbarcelona4437 First time I've heard the Farmer's Loop mentioned. Looks easy enough to tie.

@devinbarcelona4437 5 ай бұрын

@@boomupengineering I can't Believe how few people know about it. I love it. Since learning it, its been so long since I tied an alpine I forgot how. I will never have a purpose for that knot again.

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Rock climbers like the figure 8 on a bite because it tends to stay tied to their harness better while they climb and it flops around without a load. I have heard that it's really hard to untie if they take a fall. However, I think if you put a bowline and a figure 8 on a bite together in a break test, the figure 8 wins consistently.

@dutchdog804 5 ай бұрын

Bowline slip is the only knot I've ever used/ knew to rig everything. Old school climbing. Natural croch rigging. Smoking them ropes!

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Hahaa, cheers to the old school! I'm thankful for the olden years that got us through to the modern years, but I'm also thankful we don't have to do everything like it used to be done.

@Duda4real 5 ай бұрын

with that understood, would you use the bowline on a bite to midline attach pulleys for mechanical advantage? The other day we loaded a butterfly in a 3-1 set up with 5 guys and it was really difficult to untie. I use the bowline on a bite when attaching ropes to come-alongs for this reason. Great demo

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Yeah, I would definitely use it for that. I'd say that pulling trees over is my primary use for that knot. I typically use it in conjunction with a rope jack. If you're using a 5:1 or 3:1 a lot, I have found it easier to use a prusik because it's a little easier to adjust the position of the attachment to the rope. With a 3:1 or 5:1 it can be really handy to pretension them and then reset before making any cuts in the tree.

@jonathanglanville7953 5 ай бұрын

Do you ever use webbing to make achors for change of direction or blocks when pulling hard? Cutious what knot you use

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

I don't use webbing for anything other than climbing redirects and speedline slings. I'm definitely not an expert on webbing use, but I always avoid using any knot other than a girth hitch with webbing. It's always hard to untie and I would speculate that it knots would load the fibers in a very uneven fashion.

@chocrow 5 ай бұрын

What knot did you use to tighten up those jeans?

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Haha, they are a bit snug. I just don't like extra fabric flapping around on my legs. I have a friend who lost a leg to loose clothing. Sometimes I do end up with a pair that's a little too tight 😅

@Sethhaun78 5 ай бұрын

When say pulling a tree over and a running bowline is used to tie top tree off .those seem to be the tightest or toff to untie. I stick a steel biner in there if in doubt..or a peice of old hickory handle about 3/4 inch diameter..but usually no issue

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

What knot do you tie those items to the rope with? Something else you can do if you're expecting heavy loads is add more wraps around a branch or stem wood to reduce the load on the knot.

@Sethhaun78 5 ай бұрын

@@zaccheus running bowline..usually. I watched a webinar tree stuff with Kevin Bingham and he basil.ties with a bowline and a bight so I like this method sometimes I will tie that to a truck or machine with a carabiner threw it so it can't get tight ..has worked beautifully

@Sethhaun78 5 ай бұрын

@@zaccheus out delivering wood storm snow coming here last nice day so trying to prep hoping Walmart is open to put rear tire s on truck have got bunch trees to do but 1 inch of snow here shuts down roads stores coming snow tonight..saying 6 inches so here that's like 2ft back home up north they don't have many plows salt trucks .mountain roads get shut down or ice ❄ it's nightmare..thanks for reaching out man ..really respect your opinion and work ethics.you are a dieing breed in your generation. Very impressed with you ..

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

@Sethhaun78 aye that sounds like a tricky situation. I worked at a tire shop in highschool and we would always get slammed for a week straight after the first snow. I think I did 76 hours in a week once year 😅 Thanks man, I. Just out here doing my best. It's all anyone can do 🤷‍♂️

@dancutting8940 5 ай бұрын

I thought you were going to tie a bowline in a bight doubling the entire knot. That’s been pretty good to me. One end will always come loose. Hownot2 has done a couple of videos with the bowline and butterfly that you may look at. One of the reasons to tie with a bite, you have two sections of rope through every union, which slightly increases the bend radius.

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

I believe thats often referred to as a doubled bowline. I might be wrong there. I have a friend that like to use that knot a lot. I believe it's worked well for him.

@pekerja27 5 ай бұрын

Ikat tambang ternyata banyak caranya ya ,, tapi saya jarang mengikat nya jika menebang pohon

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

How do you attach the rope to the tree?

@h.i.m.dishonmaurice2599 5 ай бұрын

For that scenario, definitely always bowline!

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

I can't agree more, especially after this experience!

@AwosAtis 5 ай бұрын

I've gone to a farmer's knot because the alpine butterfly cinches up so bad under heavy loading. Farmer's knot will untie easily every time: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4qpc6KNZpyefq8si=CoS6nShChX00vxBL

@Sethhaun78 5 ай бұрын

Or circus bowline.

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Looks like a cool knot. I might have to try it out sometime.

@ItreboR63I 5 ай бұрын

Got shown a knot at work and its amazing but no one knows what its called. Easy to come undone after winching 2 ton logs out of a gorge. Someone tied a bowline on a bight on a different log on the same job and it took 10mins to undo. I'll haver to film it one day. Nice video though.

@Sethhaun78 5 ай бұрын

I just stick a big Dan or simaler in between the knot ..I use bowline on bight and or or running bowline doubled bite.stick biner in the pinch spot works like a charm..the knot is still the holding point it just keeps it from jamming and unties easier

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Very interesting, I'm suprised the bowline on a bight was so hard to untie. Was it loaded across the knot? Like from both ends of the rope? I'd be very interested in learning about that knot!

@Sethhaun78 5 ай бұрын

@@zaccheus yea sometimes it gets hit on landing.or maybe was twisted and hit.but of I'm pulling super hard and or mostly have un experienced help so I will stick biner threw it .but usually ok

@ItreboR63I 5 ай бұрын

Nope standard pull direction. I wondered if the rope made it easier to cinch down as the teufelberger 7/8th stuff is pretty open weave? I'll make a video of it. @@zaccheus

@ItreboR63I 5 ай бұрын

Yeah this works quite well too.@@Sethhaun78

@robertvannicolo4435 5 ай бұрын

Yea bowline is the way to go some 5 thousand plus pieces off crane slings never had problem getting knot loose

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

Very good information. Thank you for sharing!

@Sethhaun78 5 ай бұрын

Getting it wett then useing a rubber Mallet will eventually break the Saturday knot ..better than screw driver s....seen a guy do this

@zaccheus 5 ай бұрын

That's very interesting information. That seems like it would make the rope swell and make everything tighter. I have very little experience with marine rope work though 😅