Brace Height Testing - Not what I expected

[@hunterford1865]

Good explanation to brace height. I'm sort of new to the sport and am always a "seek the middle" type guy. I have two old bows, and when setting them up, I usually set them at the mid point between the two extreme recommended settings. I'm not to much into speed, however, a flat trajectory is what I hope to accomplish. Your video has caused me to feel a little better about not worrying too much. Thanks for the explanation.

[@ScottWinters]

Thanks for the comment and the kind words my friend. I hope the videos help in some way. I’m with you on not being much into speed. My chronograph rarely sees the light of day. I do get curious from time to time about how fast the arrows are traveling, and curiosity gets the better of me. I live by, do what works for you. If I can be of any assistance please let me know. Have a great evening. Best regards.

[@TRUSTLIFENOW]

Hi Scott, great video as always, little tip, I always keep one arrow in my quiver which has two marks on it, one for my brace hight lining up with a mark on my shelf and one mark at 28" for testing my draw weight , in my experience there shouldn't be a difference in draw weight when changing the brace height, since you still draw the bow the same distance back every time, maybe the arrow gains more foot pounds of energy on a lower brace hight because the limbs move further on release but I got no data to back this up, anyway have a great week, hope to catch the Livestream even if I can't participate ( living in Europe)

[@ScottWinters]

Thank you for the comment my friend. I end t down a rabbit hole with this one. Apparently the information I was taking in was incorrect. At least I found out first hand that it was incorrect. I like the idea you have concerning the draw length markings. I will have to give it a try. I think you are correct in the lower brace height. I will have to test that in more detail for myself. I have always heard the opposite. Have a great day my friend. I really appreciate your time. Best regards

[@TRUSTLIFENOW]

@@ScottWinters I think the information you gathered comes from compound bows, since you can adjust brace hight and draw weight by tightening or loosening the limbs at the riser, for traditional bows I would try to shoot some arrows with a 1" higher and 1" lower brace height, this shouldn't change the draw weight since you still draw out to the same distance but it should show a difference in speed or foot poundage since the arrow at a lower brace height has more time on the string to absorb the energy of the bow while with a higher brace height some of that energy will stay in the limbs, there should also be a noticable difference in sound and hand shock, hope this gives you some idea for a follow up video

[@ScottWinters]

Definitely going to do a follow up on this. It’s funny my friend, the subject matter was dealing with traditional bows. Not sure how they came to the conclusion they did. I really appreciate your insight on this. This is why I love this community so much. Hopefully everyone, myself included will be able to glean something from the comments. Have a great day brother. Best regards

[@sigmanarchery54]

( Enter Me ) Scott I too have found the same things. I tend to try to hang in the middle unless the bow is continuously telling me to go to the higher side! I also do not want to go over the recommended brace height for I truly believe that is what damages the limbs and causes stress fractures in the fiberglass. Thanks again for another great lesson. Take care my friend and God bless.

[@Jackie_Sins]

I tried this brace height experiment out and got fairly similar results. It doesn't seem to change the draw weight much at all, but there are always gonna be other variables. Nice video, best regards.

[@ScottWinters]

Thank you Jackie. I appreciate your time. Thank you for the comment. I wasn’t expecting anything ground breaking, however I wasn’t expecting the results I got. At any rate, I had fun performing the test. I hope you have a great day. Best regards.

[@DS-sh5we]

Enter me. Hey Scott, Great video; always interesting when you talk bow set-up. I have an old 60 lb. Browning Nomad Stalker II, that I purchased from Herman's Sporting Goods back in the mid 70's. Loved shooting it early on, but as I got older, my draw length increased and it "stacked" like a son-of-a-gun. I think it's only 56 or 58 in. My draw length is also 30 in. I tried different string lengths to adjust the brace height, but it didn't help. Anyway, I could be wrong, I'm no bow building engineer, but it seems to me that the lower brace height might have given you slightly faster arrow speeds because the limb tips are moving farther forward, or may be moving faster on your release, with the longer string. You're drawing 30 in. with each set up, but with the shorter string, the limb tips start further back and stop further back than with the longer string. Not sure if they would be moving even faster with the bigger brace height. I know, sounds counter intuitive, given the limbs are already storing more energy with the bigger brace height. Like I said, I'm no engineer. It's just a guess.

[@ScottWinters]

D S, great to hear from you my friend. This has definitely altered my long standing thought process. You and others here have stated the exact same thing. It makes more sense that the lower brace height allows the arrow to stay on the string longer causing an increase in arrow speed. I’m wondering where the trade off is with the bows performance and handling. If nothing less this has sent me even further down the rabbit hole. There will definitely be a follow up on this. I experienced the same thing as you. The better I got the longer my draw length was. I actually had to sell one of my bows because it stacked like crazy and I feared I stressed the limbs too much due to my longer draw length. More to come on this. I really appreciate your time my friend. Really good to hear from you. Best of luck to you on the giveaway. Have a great evening my friend. Best regards

[@markroberts6971]

Scott this is a great presentation. Very thoughtful. One aspect that is missing from most discussions on changes in brace height is the variation bow tension across the bows entire draw length. Some bows start loading tension early and continuously. Others, like Mongol long draw style bows with siyahs, or exceptional bows like Nawalny bows don’t get much of a feel of increased tension. Brace height changes in bows like these doesn’t make much of a difference. Your Scicai may have a similar effect. Thanks again.

[@ScottWinters]

Thank you Mark. Apologies for the late response. To be honest I didn’t think about the changes to a bow like my SciCai. Definitely worth testing for my own curiosity. This experiment was eye opening to me. I definitely don’t think the same as I did about this subject. I will testing this further and with various bows. Hope all is well with you my friend. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@robstofberg1]

Hi Scott the ideal brace height has more to do with optimising the behaviour of the bow than it’s performance. (And avoiding wrist slapping😂) Good luck with the giveaway from another European 😢.

[@ScottWinters]

Yep, I am coming around to that realization. I started down the trail of reading too much on the subject and it led to this video. I do have a long bow that refuses to cooperate no matter where I set the brace height. I appreciate your time my friend. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@jscott4431]

Enter Me! Hi Scott, I have two longbows and two recurves, so I really don't need another. However, I have a friend very interested in getting into trad archery. If lucky enough to be selected I would pass on the bow to him. Thanks for the video on brace height. I've done some experimenting with brace height as well with similar results. My longbow and recurve seem to perform well at the higher end of the recommended BH. Love your channel...keep up the great work!

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you on the giveaway. I appreciate the comment. You definitely have to experiment with this to find what works for you. It’s definitely given me something more to test out. More to come about this. Have a great evening. Best regards.

[@joedeutsch5318]

Enter Me. Always thought about trying that, but I was told , it won't make a difference. Love your video's, I learned a lot from them.

[@ScottWinters]

My friend when people tell me not to do something it drives my desire to do something, LOL. Experimenting is the only way to know for sure what does or doesn’t work for you. I appreciate your comment and your time. Best of luck to you on the giveaway. Have a great evening. Best regards.

[@drftsnvk]

ENTER ME! I did my own testing about a year ago. I used a one-piece longbow and a take-down recurve. I saw no difference in draw weight, arrow speed or arrow flight/accuracy at all. I am convinced it makes no difference.

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck in the drawing. I agree on the draw weight. I think, just based on what I saw and the comments about the lower brace height you do get a longer travel / time on the string. This will increase arrows speed some, but I don’t think it earth shattering speed. I tend not to worry to much with arrows speed. As long as it makes it to the target I’m good lol. I appreciate your time and the comment. My friend. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@paulhomsy2751]

A shorter brace height creates a longer stroke when releasing an arrow and consequently more speed that a high brace height which does store more energy in the limbs as you mention but that's only in an inertial state. The string has a shorter stroke generating less speed. The shorter brace height's disadvantages are more noise and more wrist slap but more speed. Just wanted to add that the draw weight wont vary much. I speak from experience we other archers as well.

[@ScottWinters]

I appreciate the input. It's always good to hear about another archer's experience. Thank you. I hope you have a great day. Best regards

[@shanepitzer4126]

The higher the brace height, the shorter the power stroke. In other words, the arrow is off the string sooner, a shorter 'catapult'.

[@ScottWinters]

Hey Shane. Thanks for the comment. I am seeing this now. Funny that I contradicts all that I have read regarding the subject. I think I need to find other reading material. I appreciate your comment my friend. Hope all is well. Have a great day. Best regards.

[@shanepitzer4126]

@@ScottWinters The way I see it, the constant is draw length. The variable is brace height. The distance from full draw to arrow leaving the string gets shorter as the brace height gets higher. The velocity difference isn't too much because the difference in power stroke is at the weakest end of the stroke. I do think the higher brace height can help tune a stiff arrow, as it would not have to 'bend' as much around the riser. Always enjoy your vids, thanks for sharing!

[@bowsnature9336]

Correct higher brace will help to weaken a stiff spine lowering brace will have opposite effect also moving cat whiskers etc closer to the nocking point will stiffen the spine closer to limb tips will weaken I use both brace height and string silencer placement if needed to fine tune a arrow though in some cases you can change a fairly weak or stiff spine quite dramatically

[@ScottWinters]

That’s a very interesting insight on the tuning aspect of it. I don’t think I have ever considered that part of it. Will definitely have to consider that going forward. I’m invested in this and will have to do a follow up for it. I appreciate your wisdom and insight brother. Have a great evening. Best regards.

[@matthewvassar9686]

Enter Me Thanks for the video. I'm new to archery and being able to learn stuff like this from experienced people and then reading comments learning even more his amazing!

[@ScottWinters]

Awesome. Glad you enjoyed the video. You can definitely learn a lot in Thai community. I would the people here are a wealth of information with no judgement. Let me know if you need anything. Have a great evening. Best regards.

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you.

[@joedaniels4646]

Great video Scott. I find I shoot better with my brace height set on the high end of what's recommended. Even my red oak self bows that I make shoot better with a higher brace height although most seem to like to keep the BH low for some reason. (Many keep the BH not much more than 6.5". I like mine to be no less than 7.25" and closer to 7.75".) Anyway, cool video and God bless ya!

[@ScottWinters]

Joe, good to hear from you brother. I’m questioning a lot of things after this experiment, LOl. I tend to stay in the 8 to 81/4 range for most all of my bows. I will definitely be testing this more as I go along. I appreciate your time and the great insight into your setup. Have a great evening. God bless

[@jeffconant5826]

Enter me! Thanks for the informative video, and the chance to win that bow!

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. Thank you for the kind words. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@kurtmeister8308]

Hi Scott . Great video and the give away is a wonderful way to help out a fledgling archer. You are a terrific guy. Relative to your experience with your bow and brace height, my experiments have given about a 3 to 4 FPS increase with the shortest brace vs the longest brace. Faster with shortest. I think that is consistent with most experiments I've seen. I do agree that draw weight change is minimal and generally difficult to measure. The extra speed comes from the resulting longer power stroke from a lower brace height. That said, to get the results, I've had to be very careful with draw length, using a clicker or an optical reference . I really appreciate your experiment because is shows the draw to draw variability is significant compared to the changes in brace height. Question for you. I'm 5"11 and an older guy of 61 and legacy weight lifter (meaning old shoulders) and I draw right at 28 inches. How tall are you with a 30 inch draw? That is quite the draw! :) Blessings Brother and let God bless your ministry. Kurt

[@ScottWinters]

Thank you for the kind words my friend. I really appreciate the comment. I’ve thought about using a clicker like you stated. Never get around to trying a lot of things it seems. The test was a great experiment for me. To answer your question, I think I’m 5’11”, of course with age creeping up on me I think I’m slowly shrinking, LOL. As I have progressed in shooting my draw went from 28.5 to my 30 now. Not sure how to explain it but I think it could be my wing span and over time my form just developed at that length. I really appreciate your time brother. Take care of those shoulders my friend, and enjoy the journey! Have a great evening. Best regards

[@markroberts6971]

Thanks Scott. What the GPP of your Top Archery arrows. Love those shafts.

[@ScottWinters]

Mark, great to hear from you. The total arrow grain weight is 324 grains. The shafts are 33 1/4. GPI comes out to 9.67 per inch. GPP is around 8.1 at 40lbs draw weight. I have not added any additional weights to the inserts. Basically just a stock build with the supplied components. I have no complaints about the quality of these. I really appreciate your time my friend. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@upfef3844]

Enter Me. Thank you for the information here and in your other videos. Very helpful.

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you in the drawing. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@Bob-ts2tu]

I bought a good quality string at standard length of 66.5" for my 70" bow, and love it. my brace height is set to the recommended max of 9.5". when i went back to the shop to buy a spare, the person who made it said that because i was at the max BH they recommended they make the new string as 65.5", same material, which obviously means i need less twists in it to get to 9.5" (not that i thought the first sting was excessivly twisted). I fitted a nocking point at the identical height, and have shot about 650 arrows with the new string & got all the initial 'stretch' out, HOWEVER i have found 2 issues, in that my bow seems noisier, and that my sight marks need to move down by 2 at all the indoor distances for the new string, clearly a situation not ideal, as i indend to interchange the strings every couple of week so they get even wear. my question is do you have any idea why this should be? thinking about it i should have just bought identical to start with, but the string maker has a lot of experience so i just went along with their recommendations, but i don't like the new string so will now buy another at 66.5". Any comments our thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers

[@davidmitchell2674]

Enter Me Very interesting information about brace height. Thanks for doing the testing and sharing the results.

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. You are welcome. Glad you enjoyed the content. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@larrygratz7695]

Enter me You could have put a please of tape at various distances on the arrow. Works good.

[@ScottWinters]

Thanks for the tip my friend. I will try that. I really appreciate your time. Have a great evening and best of luck to you. Best regards.

[@martinvanpamelen5756]

Shoot bare shafts then see how the arrow flight changes when you change brace hieght! A half inch change in brace hieght can make the difference between two or tree degrees in deflection on impact. that is why we should always bare shaft tune our bow befor shooting broad heads. increasing brace hight can help with a tail left shaft, (weak spine) and decreasing brace hieght can help with tail right shaft, (stiff spine). Changing your brace hieght a little bit might save you from having to cut down your arrow more than you might want too or having too change your point weight when tuning your bow.

[@ScottWinters]

Agreed. The tuning rabbit hole runs deep. I try to keep from cutting arrow shafts as much as possible. With any new arrow builds I do shoot bare shaft and probably too much. I can get obsessed with the process. I appreciate your time my friend. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@mdocy]

Enter me. I'm a beginning archer and due to lack of experience I simply set my brace height to halfway between the min and max recommended values.

[@ScottWinters]

That’s not a bad place to start my friend. Experimentation will give you insight on what works for you. Best of luck to you on the giveaway. I appreciate your time. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@graham9723]

Hi Scott, Great video and those are arguments that have gone on for a long time. As for whether brace height affects bow weight my theory is this: Let's say you have the brace height at 8 inches, there will be a certain amount of pressure already in the limbs, let's say 10lbs. You now set your brace height to 9 inches. There will be more of a preload of pressure in the limbs. Lets say 15lbs. Both of these weights are when the bow is at rest. Now when you draw back the bow to 28 inches you are actually drawing the bow an inch more at an 8 inch brace height than you are at a 9 inch brace height. Both draws finish at 28 inches therefore the draw weight at 28 inches will be the same. You are just putting less preload on the limbs at rest at a shorter draw length. That's my theory but of course I could be wrong, I often am if you believe "she who must be obeyed". I hope you are well Buddy and getting lots of archery in. Take care.

[@graham9723]

Should have said "you are just putting less preload on the limbs at a lower brace height" not at a shorter draw length........see, I got it wrong again lol.

[@ScottWinters]

Graham, great to hear from you my friend. Your theory sound solid to me brother. Not sure how I got down the rabbit hole on this one. Guess I need to read less and shoot more. Lol. I read a lot of information about this and it was the opposite of the outcome I experienced. If nothing else it will just drive me to go even further with it. I too have a must be obeyed, LOL. She keeps me straight though, even if she looks at me like I’ve lost what little mind I have. Brother your time is valuable to me and I really appreciate the insightful comment. Have a great day my friend. Best regards

[@rickriley8535]

Hello Scott my name is Rick riley I got a black hunter 25 lbs. Iam a 65 yr old had shoulder operation I miss order a recurve in stead of a long bow but is ok. Question is trying to set brace height to around 7 1/2 can only get 8 1/16 what can I do string is 56 in could use all the help I can thank you

[@ScottWinters]

Rick, thanks for the question. You would probably need a longer string to get that low on the brace height. You would need at least a 57 or 58 inch to be able to take enough twists out of the string to lengthen it enough. The string will stretch over time but not to that degree, I don’t think. A string swap will most likely be the only way to make it work. I hope that helps. I’m always open to questions and will help as much as I can. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@saltheart2023]

Enter Me Thank You... Just found your channel and am looking to get into Traditional Archery! God Bless!

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. It’s a great journey to be on. I hope you enjoy the content. Have a great evening. Best regards.

[@staffordsanpei7804]

What did you do to the limb pockets to quiet the bow? my bow is 64" and the brace height is unknown. Where would you recommend I start at? Very informative video. you need to fix your draw weight thing. So you can get a better comparison. Thank you

[@samfulks4896]

Thanks for the great info. Love your enthusiasm. Enter me and God bless you .

[@ScottWinters]

Thank you my friend. Best of luck to you on the giveaway. Have a great evening

[@osmansalem]

Possibly the batteries of the device but great demo thanks❤

[@ScottWinters]

That is possible. I appreciate your time and the comment my friend. Have a great day. Best regards

[@osmansalem]

If possible to show in details how to measure the brace height in mm not in inch, it will be helpful

[@osmansalem]

Nice video I am sure that you a lot knowledge to share with us to be better archers.

[@ScottWinters]

It is possible. The bow square has mm on the reverse side. I should show that part of it as well. I never think to do that. I will make it a part of the content going forward. Thanks for the call out in that. Have a great day.

[@Defpotec82020]

Enter me. Thank you!

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. Have a great evening

[@brucefrazeur3172]

Enter Me thank you

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. Have a great day

[@brucefrazeur3172]

Thank you

[@valjaliovajusername]

Enter me. Would be a nice gift to my friend 👍

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you in the drawing. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@101froggydude]

Nice, enter me.

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you on the giveaway. Have a great evening.

[@Nightstrife69]

Enter me please!

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. Have a great evening. Best regards

[@squaredwon]

Enter me

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. Have a great evening

[@theamputeehunter2074]

Enter Me

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. Have a great evening.

[@TheArby13]

Enter Me

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. Have a great evening.

[@simplesouthpaw3173]

Enter me

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. Have a great evening.

[@scatterbrain9490]

Enter Me

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you on the giveaway. Have a great evening.

[@mossback6026]

Enter Me

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you. Best regards.

[@RobArima]

Enter Me

[@ScottWinters]

Best of luck to you in the drawing. Best regards