Arrows- Part1 and why I stopped shooting FMJs

[@bartperrier]

I’m convinced, every time you make a video, it costs me money...great content.

[@SNAGEMNTAG3M]

PREACH HAHAHA

[@ramblingrich3544]

Right .. his camera work and communication skills are on Point

[@millerwlee]

Fr

[@rumon122]

Love all the work and dedication that goes into all of you videos. Top notch as always.

[@DCMC7074]

Anyone in the market for some slightly used 300 spine FMJ’s? ... they’re pretty straight.

[@justinphillipsdvm]

Winner of best comment!

[@GBBLGBL]

Now THAT'S funny!!

[@jeremymichel1398]

I NEED MORE!!! Keep doing what you're doing man. The quality of your content is like no other.

[@mcguireoutdoors5187]

Great stuff Brandon, I always enjoy watching your content. You should consider a podcast. I’m sure you’re time might not allow, but I’d subscribe

[@Wild.cottagegarden]

Epic video! Really opening up how I want my set up to be, lots of good points to consider too! Thank so much for your wisdom! I really enjoy your quality content!!

[@Re-liner_outdoors]

It’s pretty hilarious I turned this video on in my truck, after leaving the bow shop with Easton axis arrows in my seat and I’m pulling into the chic fil a ! 😂

[@ryanratliff9365]

I hardly ever comment on videos, but I am loving these videos. For a new bow guy all of this is perfect. Thank you!

[@WILKinKC]

I really love your videos man. They are always so well put together and informative. Keep up the good work!

[@stimey14]

Great video. Can’t wait for part deux. I have struggled with similar challenges for setups and really enjoy seeing how you worked through it. Great content and can’t wait to see how you like your Day 6 setup!

[@tylercarder581]

Favorite archery channel on the tube. Keep it up bro.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Thanks for watching!

[@thudson391978]

No way I am skipping chick fil a. I'll give up something else first.

[@theklutzyoutdoorsman5265]

As usual Brandon great video. I think the arrow set up is the most important part of the bow setup as a whole. Oh one other thing. Don't worry about how long the video is!

[@a.k.5539]

Another great video. Have been tossing around ideas for arrows for a minute. Looking forward to your next vid as aways

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Hopefully I'll have time to get it done this weekend!

[@dennyvillemure1088]

Great talk. I like the specifics and physics also. TAC just proved to me that my cheap Black Eagle Outlaw 350's are better than I am. They go exactly where I aim them. Their best feature is the ease of retrieval from dirt.

[@brandenbowie9967]

I am really enjoying the format and production quality of your videos. Nice job man, keep it coming!

[@hamartime17]

So I have ran Deep Six FMJs for a few years now. The only things I find an issue with these particular shafts is as follows: inserts work their way loose or come out entirely. And the COST of them. If you lose one (don’t judge me) it isn’t easy on your wallet when that happens. BUT THE absolute best arrow I have ever used without question. The penetration of these shafts compared to others is unmatched! Well, after all, this is my opinion based on a few years of heavy shooting and hunting! Great content once again Brandon!!

[@joshwinters7290]

Great video as always. I would recommend trying to hang out with Troy Fowler from Ranch Fairy. He and Dr. Ed Ashby will make your head spin with even more arrow knowledge.

[@jordanbrillowski2571]

I came here looking for this comment! 😂 People think they're a little over the top, but they are doing legit research.

[@Enders1315]

I'm following their advice for my next arrow build. I have a friend that has had great success with those types of builds.

[@littlehendrick]

Another fantastic video. Well thought out, deliberate in presentation, and detailed at a level that is digestible but still leaves me thinking afterwards. Looking forward to part 2!

[@jacobturner7223]

I’m glad I found your channel. You’re making some great content.

[@gavancassar1366]

What a topic, I love it. You hit the nail on the head mentioning preference due to animal and style of hunting aswell as personal bow setup. People take note of this and spend the time just like Brandon and other successful people do and try what works best !!! Well done Brandon love your work.

[@kylehoy3119]

You said what I've been thinking and wondering forever. So much good information can not thank you enough

[@4doutdoors961]

Always enjoy your videos, man. I’ve been down some rabbit holes lately about “heavy vs lite” and it seems like people on both sides are always coming for the others throat. Thank you for not being one of those. Can’t wait for part 2.

[@vagacat69]

4D Outdoors don’t go too lite. Bows are designed to shoot no less than a minimum weight or boom. Like dry firing the bow. Likely we all know that though.

[@the_sharp_carpenter]

Yep, I stopped by shooting FMJ 12 years ago after my first set, once you start clicking arrows they start taking that set you talked about. Your channel is great just subscribed and catching up on all the Videos

[@LeadDispenser45]

Sweet, always enjoy your stuff bud! Well explained!

[@T1GEVERETT]

I didnt know you released this video so soon, lol. I bought my first bow yesterday and bought some arrows (dont know the exact kind other then they are all carbon and made by Beman) and im very happy with it already. This video and part 2 will help me greatly and I appreciate it. You're videos are very informative and useful for pros and beginners alike im sure, so keep you up. You have a new subscriber.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Congrats in the new setup! Thanks for the sub

[@richarddean3154]

I am one of those short-armed/short draw persons. I put a lot of time and expense into picking what I consider to be the "best" arrows for hunting. Randy Ulmer has some good articles on arrow selection - they are old but still relevant. Additionally, Dr Ulmer (and John Dudley) has suggested that he keeps in arrows in the 270 fps range and adds weight in order to maintain this speed, as bow performance increases year by year. Thanks for taking the time to make this content.

[@mohahram6951]

Bloody hell Brandon,, why you gotta leave me hanging for the next video man.. Great contents once more.. Now i feel i gotta get new arrows

[@davislong9476]

Wow what a smack down on those shafts. All I can say Is thanks for saving a lot of people miss or wounded animals ,not to mention target shooting. I use Victory vap Elite amazing shafts.....buy them on Ebay for 144 dollars some times less. Since the shafts are so small they drive further thru the block targets ,I have to shoot at least 25 yards to keep arrows from going thru.

[@derekmurphy4096]

Jut came across your channel last month. Great content and very well done!

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Appreciate you watching!

[@heatherh2784]

excellent video/ documentary !

[@MrJNOTHUM]

Definitely a happy medium. Imo best good comments are #1 followed by good arrow flight. Then I'm looking to achieve a minimum FOC of 18% which in turn, translates to a heavier arrow. My arrow setup right now is a goldtip 300 spine, 100 grain insert, 125 grain Magnus 2 buzzcut. Total weight is 520 grain FOC at 18%. Shooting a Triax at 65 pounds, draw at 28" . I don't worry too much about trajectory since 95% of the time I'm whitetail hunting with shots under 30 yards.

[@robertoguzman6843]

Brandon excellent data, I stopped shooting FMJs for the same exact reason (bending), my new arrows are Victory VAP SS and GT Kinetic Pierce Plat. both are micro diameter and shoot great.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Both great arrows. Im having a hard time finding some of the Victory arrows that I'd like to try, but in general I like them.

[@John-nd7il]

Very intelligent approach to the question

[@timbow50]

More really good insight. Newbies can learn a lot from your perspectives. 👍👍👍

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

We can all learn together!

[@KenRen-hw8uv]

These videos are always worth the wait. I bought a stabilizer from Cutter as well. They seem to be really great people.

[@johnwalter6410]

All I have ever used is match grade 5mm axis (+/-.001). 100g tip with 75g brass insert. Cut to 26". 13.1 FOC. Right 2 degree helical. They are EXTREMELY accurate.

[@ericwiitala5407]

Excellent content and very nicely explained. I Just subscribed. 👍

[@joeybennett1491]

I’m using the Ironwill system with Easton Axis (match grade) arrows and so far so good. Great groups out to 55-60 yards. This set up is expensive, but the consistency is excellent and therefor worth while. I spine index each arrow, build them, spin them and have no concerns. Id rather forgo a piece of gear if it means that my arrow flight is as good as I can make it. Plus building arrows is like hand loading ammunition for long range precision shooting, what you get out of it is what you put into it(hopefully punched tags and great memories). Great video Brandon 👊🏹

[@MrArravelo]

👍!! Nice job on photography and video editing.

[@steveleblanc2581]

Great vid. He almost lost me the moment he suggested skipping a Chick-Fil-A meal.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Sacrifices must be made!

[@6saturdaysaweekoutdoors]

Good video, very thorough.

[@AndrewSmith-zp4cr]

BRANDON I would love to have a video that you review different release! And the different types, if you could do the silver back that would be awesome.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Me too! Just need to get more before I filmed it

[@backupbump1587]

Have you tried tempering the arrow? The carbon fiber cylinder inside is under stress from the bent aluminum and is trying to pull back the aluminum to become straight. Giving it a helping hand with some heat might straighten it out if the epoxy inside can handle some heat (generally a maximum of 150°C (300°F) for shorter periods of time for regular epoxy and double that if it's high heat resistant epoxy), though it might mess with the properties since it's a 7075 alloy and is a tempered alloy, but it melts at 477 °C (891 °F) so the carbon fiber pipe would probably go bonkers first. The only reason I can think of for putting an aluminum sleeve on it is for impact protection, like dropping it on a rock or maybe when it hits bone (side impacts when it wobbles through and animal). Aluminum is not really great for withstanding fatigue, even if it's 7075 alloy.

[@uvausmc]

Haven't even watched it yet but I stopped using FMJs too. Bent too many hitting other arrows or hard targets. DaySix are my go-to now.

[@andyw237]

We need..........'MORE-MENT-UM' ! great video, keep up the good work. these videos are both entertaining and educational.

[@jessewinger5989]

Love your videos man. Hope for more

[@the88tlc]

great review. I have come to similar conclusion. I want a flat shooting arrow. I dont always get to range the animal, and 5 yards of variation a flat trajectory helps me connect. I always have a FMJ in the quiver, for maybe a frontal shot, but have never used it. and NOTE... my FMJ i need to use a 40 yard pin for a 30 yard shot, pins are set using Gamegetter.

[@barbellsandbowhunting]

Here in Australia, I've found the CX piledriver to be awesome. They're older carbon arrows but with a good insert (60-100gr) they will kill dinosaurs. Relatively cheap too.

[@barbellsandbowhunting]

250 spine, 150 GN head art a short draw, 601gn. Works like a dream

[@nathinhayes5647]

“Your setup sucks.. and I’m sorry about that” hahaha!! Dying.. yet again.. great video. I still shoot fmjs but will phase them out next year.. mostly cause of the cost but also cause I’ve noticed the spreading groups.. maybe I just suck but.. good excuse to find a little cheaper setup to make the wifey happy.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Ive still got my fmjs incase there's a zombie apocalypse! Nothing wrong with them, I just think they have some issues.

[@donovanstockton44]

Your stuff just keeps getting better and better. Very professional quality Brandon!!!

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Thank very much for watching

[@NortheastHunting]

Devils advocate: what if the FMJs aren’t bending because of arrow slap from hitting targets...what if they bend from poor form when pulling out of targets? What if it’s gripping them too hard or not pulling perfectly straight out of the target when removing them?

[@kylergiroux2831]

Maybe

[@dlydly1686]

Either way who wants to deal with that??

[@NortheastHunting]

@@dlydly1686 obviously people wouldn't want to deal with bent arrows; but maybe it's worth trying to be a little more thoughtful when yanking arrows buried deep in a target, if there's a chance that's all it takes to keep the arrows straight for longer. It's just a hypothesis, I could be wrong here.

[@RzAk-ut1hb]

Brandon Usually everyone is pimping there opinion on there favoirite and why you should buy it. Love your approach on this content. We can spend way too much time (like I did) on fine tuning, worrying, arguing stats. Most people don't have time or resources to compile data and they listen to the wrong [archery product hustler] on YT. Accuracy and shot placement will always trump arrows weight I believe. One cosmetic issue can be brought to light it that certain manufacturers(easton,BE,) have emblems on side that will wear off or wipe clean easily, where I've been shooting some victory vf that I've refltched 6 times and acetone doesn't seen to hurt the emblem too much (not saying it wont)And the emblem doesn't seen to wear. But there I go pimping arrows lol. Thanks

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Hahaz I don't have any issue with someone saying they like because they actually like it. My issue is, if you're getting a check it's harder to be objective..

[@ApexPredatorOutdoors]

I started shooting the Victory VAP SS. Great More-Ment-um as you say. Best arrows I've ever shot. 20% FOC at 570 grains. Makes me happy at least. The stainless steel won't bend like an Aluminum one.

[@thomashood3748]

Content is soooo great! I could lusten to B.McD talk all day.....about anything!

[@Lavonshirk]

Good video,, preach it brother ,, weight matters ! I shoot bloodsport evidence micro ,, 160 up front 527 grains total,, shooting 70lb 32” draw,, 282fps ,, my whitetail setup ,, can’t wait till the next video

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

I really like those specs. That's probably close to where I'll be but with 75lb bow at 30" draw. Ill probably be a bit slower.

[@02LM7]

Best explanation of the momentum vs trajectory conundrum I’ve seen yet. Also why ke is a useless measurement as it relates to archery.

[@jordan3576]

I could just listen to you talk about archery for hours. I would literally just pull up your videos and do homework with it in the background.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

I do that with some peoples videos too so I get that. Glad I could help with the homework back ground experience!

[@cwalter2013]

I looked into the three insert systems you mentioned at the end of the video, but think I’m going with FOCUS system by Black Eagle, just mentioning if you haven’t looked into that particular one yet. Keep up the videos.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Yeah, looks legit but I haven't shot it yet. It's nice to be able to order everything from one spot though. I like black eagle.

[@cwalter2013]

Yeah I currently have BE Rampage in 300 spine but will be switching to x-impact 250 spine with the extra weight up front, 30.5 draw length ~73 lb weight.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

You'll be able to crank that weight on those 250s if you want. I've got 280g out front of my 250 spine. Our specs are similar.

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

Pretty informative video and the cinematography is nice. I am having a somewhat similar issue, but must less weight difference. I have been shooting the Cabela's Stalker Xtreme 340 spine with 100 grain up front for years they are 9.3 grain per inch. I recently bought a 6 pack of Carbon Express Mayhem SDS that are 11.25 grain per inch with a camo wrap on them and come with 47 grain inserts. My bow is an old PSE Fire Flite 33 from 06' with a 29 inch draw length and pulling 60 lbs. I bought some 100 grain Magnus Stinger Buzzcuts and Sik F4s at Cabela's since I couldn't find any 125-150 grain broadheads there or most places online are out of stock/backorder. Anyway there is a drop of 3+ inches from one arrow to the next and I have to gap shoot my pins that I have set up for the basic 100 grain points with aluminum inserts just to get close. I did chrono my set up with the Stalker Xtremes at 264 fps on a Caldwell chronograph. I even have tried a wrist release and a thumb button one.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

That new setup will pack a nice lunch for your specs. I think you made a good upgrade.

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

@@brandonmcdonald6121 Thank you Sir. I am hoping so, even though I have never shot at or into an animal with my previous arrows. Once I get these dialed into 40 yards (whitetail in WV), make sure my broadheads are sharp and find an opportunity, execute shot placement, I am hopeful for success. I did quick math and without the weight of the 3 blazers and Nocturnal lighted nock my arrow weighs 473.25 including arrow, insert and broadhead.

[@Chriis_Perry16]

Great video. Jumping on it late. Newbie question but wouldn’t resighting and taping allow the 825g arrow point of aim become more calculated?

[@chadwickprice3761]

I changed from FMJ as well this year to Valkyrie Reign 300 spine with 100 gr centerline sleeve and a 230 gr head. brents test order system is great, you get a chance to try different weight.

[@verificacionnecessario9190]

I bought 2 dozen Black Eagle Deep Impact's and have been SO happy with them. They're bunker busters.

[@tommygunrva]

As a member of the initiated (Fairy Duster; currently shooting 750+g/20% FOC), and a fan of all your content, I'm on the edge of my seat, and can't wait to see your results. You're a smart dude with a responsible outlook, so this should be good stuff.

[@jimr7154]

Great point about FMJ’s I started with the 4 mm FMJs and very soon figured out they were bending Shooting Carbon Injexions now I want to try the new Axis 4 mm long range lighter hopefully faster and will shoot flatter at distance I only have 27” draw at 62 lbs on my TRIAX

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Lots of great arrows these days. I'm still enjoying the axis match grades.

[@jimr7154]

Yeah I’m not shooting right now due to had to have surgery Dr hasn’t cleared me yet to shoot or run lol So I re-fletched my arrows today lol

[@BK_blacksmith]

What a great video. And it's something I've been chasing down all summer. But I've always liked the 4mm arrows.

[@Archerypunk89]

I would be really curious to see your exact set up for arrows. I have a VXR 31.5 with the same draw length shooting 70lbs and want to try something different than my FMJs.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

New arrow video coming soon where I'll tell y'all what I'm going to shoot.

[@interestedmeow]

On the FMJ bending...I have a similar issue with my high use VAPs. I was shooting horrible groups a week before the season, but groups got better at distance. Pulled my kill sticks out to get fully prepped for the season and I was shooting bullet holes and breaking things. Lol Then I tested the deflection and found my practice arrows were super noodles. Carbon breaks down just as easy as FMJs can bend permanently.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

I've had some do that as well, but probably only two out of the 4ish dozens I've had. I think the fmjs have a significantly shorter life if you shoot everyday at home with them. Slap once and they're not .003 anymore

[@interestedmeow]

Brandon Mcdonald most of my practice arrows have hit a lot of dirt (I practice outdoors at 70-90yds almost exclusively and I pay for it in early season) and have been used for 2+ years of weekly shooting from May to October so that might be a reason...lol

[@imc2cavu]

Mo' mentum, Mo' betta! Good vid sir.

[@Michigan_Highlifter]

I'm pumped to try out the Nexxus Infinitys

[@rattlingjunkie]

I went away from them, but now I'm back. They are the most accurate arrow I've shot.

[@UnderSprayedWhiteSkies]

When did Tom Morello take up archery, archery hunting?

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

I get that once a week. Funny

[@KnightsoftheApex]

Great content as always man !

[@scotthughes1458]

gotta love finding videos that explain easily

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

I certainly try but there's so much damn math involved!

[@scotthughes1458]

@@brandonmcdonald6121 yeah I appreciate it heaps man, I find your videos real helpful.

[@chadgroenhout5486]

Thanks for this video. Great info. Always enjoy your videos... Have you tried traditional? I shoot both, enjoy both. Trad is a lot more fun. Compound is more surgical... Keep up the great content.

[@vagacat69]

Dr McDonald I presume. Very informative as usual Thank you

[@RGAIRGUNNINJA]

great info bran!!!!!

[@sgtcaboose5407]

IBO speed is also a factor to consider when selecting arrows spine. A bow that IBOs at 345 is going to apply more energy to an arrow than a bow that IBOs at 315. A faster more aggressive cam system will likely need a stiffer spine. (edit for spelling)

[@ikeyeet8312]

yes, aggressive cams should increase arrow stiffness.

[@morganibarra8782]

I shoot a 45lb recurve with no sights or stabilizers and can keep a group of 12 in a paper plate at 25 yards with a 7.0 gpi arow with a 125 tip and 600 spine they shoot good but should i worried about getting good penetration on deer?

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Use a fixed blade broadhead with a pretty strong taper (very pointy) and try for double lung shots. You'll be able to make it happen!

[@ATMadison]

When is the next video coming out?

[@AA-mk4pu]

Great Videos! Keep them up. Analogy of ping pong ball vs baseball’s is far reaching tho. That’s a HUGE weight difference, It’d be more like a baseball ‘5 oz” traveling 90mph vs a soft ball “7 oz” traveling 60 mph but each one has a razor on the tip! Now which one would you choose to get hit in the face with?

[@CIMO13]

100% correct, I stopped using them too.

[@feralgrandad4429]

Killed my Elk Cow with a 615g Arrow (pretty light but that allowed me to get great FOC) with 105g in/outcert and 200g fixed broadhead. Shot out of a 55lb (nearer to 52lb at my draw length) recurve at 15 yards. Weight kills 😁 looking forward to part 2.

[@mikepasquale7415]

I shoot fmjs but have been thinking about going to carbon.. I definitely like the penetration they offer. However I bought another rx4 and now one will be set up for target and the other will be my hunting game

[@jsmittyav]

You should check out the HMR from Vector. They are the most efficient piercing I've found, and I was blown away by their customer service. If they were a bow shop, they wouldn't charge you to test shoot a new bow...

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Hahaha, thanks for the reference. I'll look k to them.

[@kmorrow63]

Damn dude, I just spun my FMJ’s and had to cull 3 of them. No joke

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Yup

[@N8Stein]

Some day I wanna see you make a video where instead of putting in the shot (video shot) that you're going for, you do the setup for it. So like that truck driving in would be you backing up after starting the camera 🤣

[@matthewfox3760]

Momentum tells us how much energy, based on the weight and velocity of the arrow, it has available to use during impact and penetration before it stops penetrating and comes to rest. Momentum is a much better indicator of what we can expect for penetration from our arrows. GrizzlyStik › The-Power-of-Momen...

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Correct!

[@steve8828]

Great stuff.......

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Thanks for watching

[@steve8828]

Thanks for posting. Your videos cover what regular guys wish they had time to do. I never feel like I am watching a commercial.

[@SchollZee]

I'm watching this, I just got a snapchat of my buddy watching the part 2 of the 2020 bow shootout, and my other buddy responded with a picture of the "why I won't shoot a PSE" video. So 3 hunting buddies randomly watching 3 of your videos before bed, in 3 different states, at the same time. Weird.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Yes! That’s amazing. Thank y’all for the support

[@wesleychildress7417]

What brand of hat is that??

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Branded bills. Ive got the same hat with a different patch at MereMortalArchery.com

[@wesleychildress7417]

@@brandonmcdonald6121 Thank you. Great video as well! I’ve been looking for that patch for a long time haha

[@matthewfox3760]

I stopped shooting them because all aluminum & carbon bonded arrows develop a slight spine bend over time

[@melvinsacromentoe]

thank you for talking about trajectory instead of just talking about weight

[@whitewiskerz2577]

Really cool video . Even tho i dont care ive decided long ago what i want out of an arrow .

[@XMetalChefX]

Instant sub

[@BenderFPV]

Hi, could you let me know what type of quiver you see using in this video? That one looks interesting and might be a good addition. ;)

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Tight spot. I'm 50/50 on it. I'm going to make some modifications to it and see what I think.

[@randyhutch50]

As always, good stuff. I've been shooting a long time so my personal solution is to set a bow up for 3d, for medium weight adult arrows -500-550 grain and one more for heavy arrows 660 and above. Yes it costs money but as you get older accumulate things. Also just wondering if you shot many aluminum arrows? straightened them ? wonder if it works on FMJs?

[@RGAIRGUNNINJA]

HHHHHhhhhhhmmmmmmmm ?

[@southwestohoutdoors6729]

Well like you said, it’s preference. If you’re pulling 70# at 29” draw you can shoot 550-800gr arrows and not have a large trajectory issue. If you’re only pulling 40lbs-55lbs then you will have larger fall off. Another part of it is accepting the limits of your set up. Only shooting as far as your arrows and bow are capable.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

I just hope this gets people thinking about this before they buy their next dozen. Examine their setups and try to make them just a bit better instead of buying the same old thing.

[@southwestohoutdoors6729]

Brandon Mcdonald I agree with that! Getting people thinking is what should be happening. I enjoyed your information and I really appreciate your content. Good stuff man!

[@mattmartin8734]

Awesome content man!

[@x3roxide]

Brandon, I suggest you look up the The study created by Dr Ed Ashby, you can find it on his website titled Ashby Reports. He did a massive study over a stretch of a few decades on arrow lethality.

[@brandonmcdonald6121]

Ive actually read it. I'll dive more into it when we talk about extreme FOC. There's no doubt that he's got the experience and I agree with lots of his principles.