Bratislava Fecht 6 - a few nice Longsword exchanges

[@timhema5343]

Would the strike at 01:15 (flat rising "cut" to the hand with zero angle) would have been counted as a hit in this ruleset ? 🤔

[@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing]

In almost all cases yes. Several of those were counted in my matches too. Some with even less of a wind up(smaller arcs).

[@timhema5343]

@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing I thought so, because after this one some very flat hits were counted. To be honest, I like all tournaments being different and with different rulesets, but in the last tournament where I was a ref, 75% of these hits would have been rejected (yours were fine)... Especially this very flat and very uncontrolled gayszlen at 02:52.

[@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing]

I would say this was of the more controlled and better one handed strikes I encountered. As far as tournaments goes - ruleset are known before sign up, so if I join something, that means I play their game and wouldn't not make a fuss about it. I have mixed feelings about flat and other hits that might be deemed low quality (speaking about incidental ones). On one side I have left myself open and the person has reached me, so I've made a mistake. On the other side, some of the flat and lower quality hits work with slightly different mechanic and look differently, so they can get to you quicker or more unexpected than a good hit. I try to accept both getting hit and myself hitting with the flat as my mistake as that can help me learn and improve. BTW my Zwerch on 01:07 was deemed low quality, which was my only real gripe a the whole event.

[@timhema5343]

​ Thanks for the clarification. I have similar feelings about flat and low quality hits, I don't judge the same if they hit me or if I'm the one performing them. Your zwerch didn't feel low quality, but as usual it's the ups and downs of tournaments 🙂

[@josiasarcadia]

people complaining in the comments about flat hits aren't fencing fast enough. We are at the upper limit of what dry fencing allows at the elite level of historical fencing. Personally, if you can hit me, you can hit me. Not my job to call a flat.

[@miroslavm2503]

I love how you are defending an act that makes something pointless... then just slow down and do it proper.

[@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing]

I think there are two distinctive issues - the ability of fencers to strike edge on hits and the ability of judges to see if they were such. I firmly believe that as fencers we should aim to deliver edge on blows and that's part of the skill to develop. Higher level fencers should be able to alter their movements and develop their skills to do that most of the time without significant changes. And as you also said "if you can hit me, you can hit me" - most of the time it won't matter much in the way the exchange has occurred. It's my job to defend as a flat or edge hit is mostly the other person's mistake and I have no way of knowing it before that. On the side of judging though - yeah, I think we have reached the limit of what we can consistently accurately judge by eye alone. Even at non-Advanced tournaments, the final few matches can regularly not be accurately judged even with experienced judges. I have no real solution to that though and most other tournament organisers as well, so most places just accept that it will happen.

[@josiasarcadia]

@@miroslavm2503 I actually work things extremely, glacially slow when I am trying to build a new motor habit or be precise. I record myself doing a thing, slow it down to .25x speed, then I do it slower than that till it's right, then speed it back up. I also do not expect perfect sparring. I expect to do thousands of reps at low, medium, and high intensity/speed to get things correct. My entire coach's approach on the Historical Fencing Channel. In any case whinging about flat hits is a cope. Put the time in. Git gud.

[@josiasarcadia]

@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing exactly, 100%. I am an ok fencer. I'm a decent judge. This last year alone I've spent hundreds of hours watching footage at .25x speed. That's what it takes to be good. There's also the likelihood that judging fencing requires people to perform at a certain level to be competent vs say other striking or grappling arts. You have to be able to perform at a certain level to even see anything. I hope to fence you some day btw!

[@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing]

Yes, I’ve been working a lot on getting better at fencing and judging and so do my students. The two skills help each other too. Would be happy to fence with you if we get the chance :)

[@miroslavm2503]

Most people who participant in tournaments have no, or very little, edge orientation awareness. It's litery an after tought.

[@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing]

Some people absolutely don’t care about edge or flat. Some try to go with edge on but it’s less of a concern. Most people I know do their best to work with the edge.

[@miroslavm2503]

Two of the hits where clearly flat hits, the fact that those counted as valid hits is all that is wrong and stupid about modern day HEMA tournaments. Just heard the other day from a friend who competed, than during the state tournament in Serbia, just recently (only for people from Serbia) in the smallsword category no clinch/wrestling was allowed.

[@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing]

Some tournaments allow flat hits and some don’t. There is plenty of variety of rulesets and everyone can choose what to attend. At this one they were allowed so no one can complain about them. I’ve only done one sparring and one tournament with smallsword so I have very limited view on it. But haven’t noticed much grappling even when it’s allowed so maybe it’s not much of a need there.

[@josiasarcadia]

Cope I guess.

[@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing]

No clue what is that supposed to mean. But if you like to expand further perhaps?

[@josiasarcadia]

@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing I was replying to the OP, not yourself.

[@miroslavm2503]

@@josiasarcadia To say the least.