Brawl For All: Grilling JR

On this episode of Grilling JR, the voice of wrestling, Jim Ross and host Conrad Thompson dive deep into the development and missteps leading to the WWF Brawl For ALL. Who was behind the ill-fated idea, whose career was ultimately damaged by the event and so much more.
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[@marqryan5218]

I was a student at Harley Race's school several years ago. He brought in Steve Williams for a show once, and he was the nicest guy you could ever meet. He was more excited to be there than we were.

[@goldenserenity2385]

People were getting whipped like government mules in that Brawl 4 All

[@ihavetubes]

It also shows most didn't even know how to fight.

[@joen8529]

JR: “You’re not going to take Bart Gunn down punching. You’re just not.” Butterbean: 😆

[@wilhelm4321]

Well I think he was speaking about amateurs not decorated professionals.

[@falconesports1581]

This should be a slobber knocker of an episode

[@CasualGamerGameplay]

Absolutely,i love watching videos and documentaries about horrible wrestling events or whatever the fuck this abortion of a tournament was because let's be honest, people enjoy watching Trainwrecks

[@jamesmccarron4847]

Barn burner

[@waffleironcheesecake]

“This will be, in my view King, a streetfight.”

[@quincee3376]

I finally saw the Dark Side of The Ring on the brawl for it all

[@CWBTV]

No one beats Dr Death if you ask JR!!

[@hitmangfx7162]

Doc would have been the perfect "hired gun" for Mr McMahon against Austin. I wouldn't have put the title on him, but a few stiff matches would have been excellent.

[@protolegacy9184]

The best laid plans. And it all goes to hell.

[@KaitoRyuga]

Dr. Death is Jr's boy

[@RyanGRyan1985]

His boy got whopped

[@c.j.garcia8075]

That thing on JR's ceiling looks like a final Labyrinth boss in a Legend of Zelda game.

[@jfkisgr8]

I watched all of the 1998 WWE TV within the last few years. I challenge anyone to watch those Brawl for All matches and listen to the crowd response in real time. Upon reflection sure, it could have been better. They didn't present it on tv as "real" while Austin's stuff was "fake". It was presented as WWE wrestlers fighting using non wrestling rules. Also you can look at the careers of everyone involved on WWE TV pre and post Brawl for All and it's not like Godfather vs Steve Williams was ever going to be a thing on PPV.

[@micahjohnsonboxing6409]

This is correct

[@e2go]

Brawl for All segments outdrew WCW in every fight but one and that was when Hogan went against Hall. It could've been much better but it was pretty compelling TV. And you're right about real vs. fake. Just a different rule set. Well said.

[@joshuacampbell289]

Trust me guys when I tell you that everyone I knew thought Bart Gunn could whoop anyone’s ass in that locker room after that Brawl for All. You guys really blew it by burying Bart Gunn

[@jerrydwolfinteractive]

I like how JR honors his high school team with his ceiling fan, Westville Tigers.

[@thejoshernaut6730]

I'm just not buying JR's story. Bart was definitely punished for beating Dr Death. JR said the plan was always to have Butterbean fight the winner. There's no way JR would put his boy Dr Death against Butterbean had he won.

[@samuelmccorkle7013]

Bart Gunn THE TOUGHEST SOB IN THE WWF

[@frankyturrizo4240]

I'm sure many people told Vince that Bart stood NO chance against ButterBean, it was to flush Bart down the toilet and humiliate him . .. why not put an accomplished bar fighter in an mma match with Severn . Or a mcdojo karate black belt in a kickboxing match vs a former muay thai champ EVERYBODY knows what's gonna happen

[@garyhen2028]

Imagine if bart would have knocked out dan or ken, thats a legacy killer!

[@benellis9665]

Maybe someday when my health's better......before taking a huge drag on a cigarette. Classic JR!

[@Adam-ov5ie]

Not sure why JR thinks Dr. Deaths injury ended his career. At WWE maybe but he cameback and wrestled a lot in Japan over the next several years.

[@e2go]

Yeah, it's a bizarre narrative that's been perpetuated over the years.

[@robintaylor485]

Red Rock Canyon Grill very tasty

[@diluted8]

I was at SummerSlam 97 in the meadowlands 🖤with my mom r.i.p

[@RMetsy]

Looking forward to this one.

[@dr.loomis4221]

K thanks for telling us...

[@at5261]

@@dr.loomis4221 poo

[@joen8529]

@@dr.loomis4221 I mean, why not? Do any of the comments really have a point, when you think about it?

[@RMetsy]

@@dr.loomis4221 pleasure

[@michaelfalkner1186]

What I can't understand is why half the undercard wasn't fired after the Brawl For All... I mean, what we found out about more than a few of them is they couldn't really fight at all -- how are they supposed to be able to "work" a fight after we now know they can't fight?

[@herzkine]

..based on that you would have to for mostlY all clowns in the rings today...even their fakes look like ballett

[@e2go]

It felt like a situation where wrestlers fought under a different rule set, not that they couldn't wrestle anymore if they won or lost. It wasn't ever presented as real vs. fake.

[@drewbog1055]

Only reason JR hates it was his boy got KTFO...If it was Dr Death it would have been the greatest thing ever.

[@karlepaul6632]

One of the stupidest ideas for an event, I can't imagine it even looked good on paper. Really had more to do with "We're really hot, it's different, let's do it!" 🤦 Great episode!👍

[@ihavetubes]

Also, how the hell was Doc supposed to win when the matches were more geared towards striking and not wresting as the Ref would force a stand up to not allow ground and pound like you have in mma. Whoever set up the rules made Doc lose.

[@penskepc2374]

Yeah, it really makes no sense how it made it to reality. A business that deals with injuries so often should have not had an issue seeing how poorly this would end.

[@penskepc2374]

​@@ihavetubes because hes the biggest BadAss! I'm sure the conversation went something like that 😂

[@wewuzguac]

It is totally unbelievable to me that anyone thought Gunn would beat The Bean.

[@kevthegoat8774]

Savio Vega's fight against Brakkus was great and the crowd loved it, Brakkus looked like he had never been in a fight before which wouldn't be surprising as the guy was massive so I doubt most people would try but Savio looked much better than most. The Godfather and Scorpio was a good fight and probably the most skilled fight of the tournament with both guys showing some good novice boxing. Steve Blackman taking down a Golden Gloves Boxer at will was awesome. Droz and Bradshaw was a fun slugfest but Droz should have got the victory. Bart Gunn and The Godfather was another fun fight with some nice exchanges until Bart's power was too much for The Godfather.

[@thetruecaretaker]

I have a feeling JR is gonna have OU games on his monitor some Saturdays.

[@joen8529]

Why didn’t they just give Bart a title shot. How dumb were they with the Butterbean thing. FFS.

[@cb3648]

Funny thing was the only person who got over at all or benefitted was Bob Holly, after he held up well against Bart they started doing the Hardcore Holly gimmick and he started wrestling Al Snow regularly, that one where they fight in the Mississippi river was great.

[@InstagramAWrestlingHistorian]

Bart Gunn could've been a top player, but he needed a manager.

[@skittymcmahon]

@@cb3648good point. I think The Godfather benefitted too. He had a better than expected showing.

[@DolFunDolhpinVtuber]

I have lost so much respect for JR after hearing what Hardcore Holly said in The Hardcore Truth about Jim's behaviour towards Bart Gunn after her beat Steve Williams.

[@johnlewisbrooks]

Lol that thumbnail mockup of JR sticking it to Butterbean is quite hilarious!😅😅😅

[@lalomontoyajr.9282]

I don't understand how they keep saying Bart Gunn didn't bring it after Brawl for All and didn't have the it factor when they didn't even give him a chance. All I remember was them giving him that mic time when they gave him those large golden boxing gloves and when he cut the promo on JR. But after that they didn't even put him in the ring with Austin, Taker, The Rock. You know, top main eventers to see if he could hang. They like automatically decided he wasn't a main eventer before even giving him a chance.

[@e2go]

Even if they didn't want anything to do with him long term they could've used him winning the Brawl for All as a way to get others over, even at a lower level. The event itself wasn't very thought out but pretty compelling TV yet they didn't get anything out of it.

[@RyanGRyan1985]

His boy Dr Death got found out that he wasn't a "tough guy" 😂😂😂

[@cb3648]

Doc in his day was really tough, but he had been working in Japan for years and All Japan which is pretty wearing on the body, plus he drank and did drugs so years of partying takes away your edge. The rules with points and takedowns but they have gloves and have to let people back up were screwy too. Even Cornette said Severn told him any idiot could win this thing which is why he likely dropped out to avoid taking a shoot loss on a fluke.

[@jilujoilujiut2165]

@@cb3648 Yea doc was a bad ass in his day . But he had alot of wear and age at this point . Wasnt his hamstring also already pulled by the time him and gunn went at it . Ill never forget that clip of dr death taking that wooden chair to a free bird

[@kevthegoat8774]

Tracy Smothers, Dan Severn, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Kurt Angle, The Road Warriors and The Steiner Brothers are all on record saying Doc was a legit tough guy. He literally took Bart down as soon as the match started but you have to let them up, Doc's boxing was awful though as he wasn't a boxer but he was in his prime very strong and even best future Olympic Champions like Jeff Blatnick and Lou Banach in the amateurs.

[@ShadowAngel-lt8nw]

You do know that he had to work injured in those "matches", right?

[@RyanGRyan1985]

Fights like he was stuck in a pillow case😂😂😂

[@smokedawg1]

What's worse? Getting beat by Bart Gunn or getting beat by a guy who put's his hands in his pockets???

[@hhhguy2004]

Pockets !!

[@misterwardy1972]

Jim Ross looking as well as I’ve seen for a while. Love it ❤

[@garyhen2028]

My boy droz was screwed

[@silverbullet9442]

This episode/topic is such a great example of how Dave Meltzer has been able to dictate a ton of false stories in wrestling history just through his guesses and assumptions.

[@joshuacampbell289]

A new opponent for Stone Cold was created in Bart Gunn. Butter bean destroying him didn’t affect that. Butterbean was always going to win that but Bart Gunn could have became a ultra heel complaining about Butterbean cheating or something and ultimately started bullying people around. It was so easy to do trust me

[@BulletBill-yb3ti]

All in their prime: Brawl for all King of the Ring Haku Steve Blackman Kurt Angle Brock Lesnar Ken Shamrock Dr Death Ron Simmons Dan Severn

[@psyberoneofchrist2310]

Sting and JR are my favorite entities in all of wrestling.OMG! 😂

[@davidfrederick6003]

Another tournament that kinda sorta turned into a kluster f*ck was the January 1984 tournament for vacant NWA Television Title. (planned) yes but there were practically no SF matches.

[@bradunderwood5684]

I was at Wrestlemania 15 in Philly that night. And the crowd reaction to Butterbean knocking out Bart Gunn was almost disturbing. It wasn't fair to Bart...or ANY of the Boys that participated.

[@josephnicolino8529]

What do you all think about this tag team? Dr Death and Dan Severn managed by Jim Cornette.

[@brandonthomas9288]

Its called a boxing license.

[@Devin_10k]

Nice man!!!! I'm from Iowa!!! 👍🏻

[@Jim-Tuner]

If you look at the WWE results from around that time, if Steve Williams had won and/or not been injured, he would not have gotten a top spot against Austin. The spot they would have given him was the spot that instead went to the returning Big Bossman not too long after. A really secondary spot.

[@100thedarkdestroyer]

Big Bossman made good money though and was featured a lot on TV. I'm sure Doc would've been happy with that spot, instead he kind of just faded away, and is probably remembered less than Bossman.

[@garyhen2028]

Butterbean should not have been the prize at mania! Damn

[@Kevinjoseph12344]

my god how could two people have the same name that are some of the most common first and last names how strange

[@ZEUSDAZ]

Is this the PPV that Ross hit reality where his toungue was forcefully removed from Dr. Deaths anus when his man got KO'd by one of the guns and as a retaliation arranged Gun to get KO'd himself by butter bean?! 🤔 😂

[@michaelinhouston9086]

Yes

[@TheBaitShopGuy]

Good ole JR posting this brawl for all up Although three years after Corny and Dark Side covered it in spring of 2020

[@Rschr101]

Cornette still running scared of Russo. When is he gonna face him in a debate instead of crying about him like a woman?

[@callum6486]

​@@Rschr101compare cornettes podcast numbers to russos. Let's see the results

[@hitmangfx7162]

Tbh, I NEVER get tired of seeing this get covered. It's such a strange anomaly of clusterf*ck that will likely never happen again.

[@kevthegoat8774]

Brakkus, Marc Mero, Quebeccer Pierre, Hardcore Holly and Hawk were the worst looking fighters in the tournament. Bart Gunn, Steve Blackman, The Godfather, Scorpio, Droz snd Savio Vega were the best fighters in the tournament.

[@chris98614]

Bart guns reward for winning just doesn't make sense... butterbean? A pro boxer famous for knocking people out!? How is that pushing the winner???

[@dylanbryant3547]

wwe should bring back a mma style fight tormerment

[@andrewring378]

Man they really could have had some fun with Bart Gunn what a mistake putting him against Butterbean a professional boxer in a shoot.

[@e2go]

That's the only thing I don't like about Brawl for All. It was a voluntary event and pretty compelling TV. The rules could've been better and more thought out but it wasn't horrible. Putting him against Bean made no sense. Even if they didn't want to use him he still was the winner of the Brawl for All and could've been used to get other people over because of that.

[@pac8827]

God Bless Jim

[@jasonbudrow4776]

But if doc would have won, by God it would have been the greatest thing ever. Doc can whip the whole roster

[@joypadlad]

They really should have just done an exhibition or two before starting a tournament so they could at least introduce it and learn what to tweak. Pay the guys extra that agree to be the test subjects. At least that way, they wouldn't be stuck committing to that awful tournament.

[@smokedawg1]

NO WAY was Doctor Death ever going to go up against Butter Bean!!! So they thought Doc. Death was going to win, and then they were going to let Butter Bean knock him out at WrestleMania???? To get him ready for a program or a match with Steve Austin??? I've got to call b.s. on that!!! I'm sorry!!!!!

[@smokedawg1]

I am a big J.R./Jim Ross fan no matter where he's at, or what he's doing on whatever show. But the Butter Bean thing, I just can't believe that was planed for everybody that would have won.

[@handsolo1209]

IF Dr Death won the Brawl they would have worked the match with Butterbean to have Dr Death win. They didn't give a damn about Bart Gunn, so they didn't work that match.

[@cb3648]

@@handsolo1209 Plus Bart just tried to box, if he would've tried takedowns he might have had a shot, but even though he was a gimmick boxer, if he caught you with a punch in 4 rounds or less you were going down.

[@analiysanchez9949]

I heard takedowns weren’t allowed in the butterbean fight.

[@herzkine]

Butterbean in a role a boxer had some reputation to loose too,doubt he would have agreed to work a boxing loss.

[@CraigSmithII]

On JR's old podcast when he had Terry Funk on his show, Funk said that the Kimura Lock is new to everyone else but to guys like him & others, it's the old school Double Wristlock. My late Pops' showed me how to do this move--along with the Crossface Chickenwing-- from his time with US Navy

[@realityorfiction]

The Kimura lock was used by Masahiko Kimura, pro wrestler and judo champion. He was active in the 1930s to 1960s. So it has technically been a "Kimura lock" for 90 years. Now, when did they start calling it that? I think it's like when you watch aew and Excalibur renames every move he comes across using Spanish and Japanese.

[@thejanglezclan]

oh wow, another thing that happened under JR's watch that he takes zero accountability for. color me shocked.

[@penskepc2374]

Are you joking? He said he was all for it and aboard, but it was a bad idea in hindsight.

[@Stable_Genius]

​@@penskepc2374I thought BFA was a Russo idea?

[@junkmalware3323]

"I had a relationship with a lot of guys."

[@myabbydad]

Wait, Jr smokes?

[@cb3648]

Yeah funny enough even during the hardcore testing in the 90's. JR, Bruce, Brisco, etc were all fans of the green gimmick.

[@iAintSayDat]

How could JR set up a shoot for someone to win. That makes no sense. It’s a shoot you never know.

[@hellokittybebop]

Damn I work next to red rock

[@anthonybick9264]

So if what he is saying is accurate then they were pushing whoever won into a knockout via ButterBean? Interesting. So the whole thing from the start gets talent injured. To top it off you're basically banking on the person who comes out unscathed to get dusted on PPV haha. Fascinating. So they would've killed Docs push anyway??? With him getting dusted by Bean? So where do we go from there.....

[@christiancharles2866]

DAMNIT!

[@phillywhateverguy]

In the moment i liked Brawl for all. But nothing good came out of if.

[@garyhen2028]

Bart was promised a austin run! I don't think they had one match.

[@johnlynn9388]

I never understood how they thought this would look good on TV. If you’ve ever seen two journeymen have a boxing match that isn’t very entertaining. Most of the guys were untrained as boxers and the rules and the big gloves stopped it really being an MMA fight.

[@The_Sage_of_Six_Paths]

Where's Jim's mic?

[@protolegacy9184]

Steve William's death and a low point from the event to a segway for a product placement. That could of been handled better. At lest out of respect for JR as its a tough topic for him.

[@roundandmakessound]

I don’t understand how Godfather got an infection in his leg

[@quannylee5159]

JR be acting like WWE treated him so bad

[@ogdannyg1]

GOD BLESS DR DEATH BABY ☠ WE KNOW WHO WAS THE BOSS OF THAT STORY

[@thecolonel3995]

They always say “Russo cost them 5 million”. Dr Death was NEVER gonna get over to that 98-99 WWF audience. He couldn’t talk, he didn’t “entertain”

[@micahjohnsonboxing6409]

Yeah I'm not sure he'd have ever drawn during any period.

[@100thedarkdestroyer]

Everyone who faced Austin was over. Doc just needed to be muscle for Vince and he'd get a ton of heat. Big Bossman ended up taking that spot.

[@thecolonel3995]

@@micahjohnsonboxing6409 He was always more of a WCW/Southern style wrestler in the Mid-South realistic wrestling vein. Which was the complete opposite of 1998 WWF phony entertainment wrestling

[@ihavetubes]

We will never know, he got so beat up in japan

[@himothy9871]

ngl i thought this said brawl out lmfaoooo

[@darrylgrant4718]

I'm a fan of JR, but he's completely full of shit about what happened with Bart Gunn after the BFA, which is probably why he gets so much guff about this. He claims Bart didn't have enough charisma and didn't get over, when Conrad illustrated clearly (with dates and TV appearances) that Bart never got a single chance to ride his win into any kind of spot. After winning the tournament, he didn't make another appearance on TV for SIX MONTHS. How is that going to get him over? They immediately (and likely, intentionally) cooled him off. By the time of WM XV, the Brawl for All was a distant memory and no one gave a shit. It's especially ironic hearing JR talking about Bart's lack of charisma, while simultaneously bemoaning lost opportunities for Dr. Death, who had less charisma that virtually anyone on the roster at that point. I don't know who decided to keep Bart Gunn off TV for six months after winning this thing, but if JR is honestly puzzled as to why he gets shit for this debacle, maybe he can explain how and why Dr. Death would've gotten a run with Austin if he had won, yet Bart Gunn was rewarded with six months of indie dates and zero TV time.

[@joshuacampbell289]

No bro. Safe would have been boxing rules only

[@countof3everybodyOD]

17:52 JR never met Kurt Angle? 🧐

[@MrJawstherevenge87]

I dont believe butrerbean was set from the beginning because he wouldve beat docs ass too! So he was a panic mode end to bart gunn climbing

[@garyhen2028]

Damn i didn't know toby has cancer

[@ihopeyoudie30]

Only reason they had take downs was for doctor death 😂 if he has one would he of fought butterbean? 😂 its crazy how they even thought he was good enough to work with austin 😂😂

[@0089nyyankees]

Idk I think Bart Gunn fought Butterbean as punishment. If Doc would have won I don't think he would have fought Butterbean.

[@1978mackdaddy]

I loved the brawl for all

[@kevthegoat8774]

Williams was past his prime back then, he wouldn't have beaten Steve Blackman or The Godfather either at that time.

[@kevthegoat8774]

Doc did try takedowns against Bart but Bart was too strong and had an amateur wrestling background himself, I remember Doc saying in his shoot interview that he was meant to fight Scorpio but they changed the brackets. Based on their fights Scorpio was a way better boxer than Doc but I don't think Scorpio would have been able to stop the takedowns.

[@christiancharles2866]

That'll stop your heart! - JR 😅

[@XSwordStoneX]

I didn't know JR smokes. Disappointing but also concerning. He should take better care of himself.

[@ajjjay9583]

Such a badass , got a broken down knee and get knocked out by Bart Gunn , JR is full of shit.

[@garyhen2028]

Jr hates the bfa! Why bring this up? Its like the Montreal screwjob and the plane ride from hell.

[@CubeTX]

Bigger failure than the XFL?

[@Rschr101]

Yawn, another Russo bashing show. Say what you want, the show was never better than when Russo wrote it. Ratings were never higher either.

[@goldenserenity2385]

Exactly. Austin and Rock were there after he left, and have appeared for several stints and it was never like it was in 97 - 99

[@christiancharles2866]

Yes it was best 97-99 but the Brawl for all still sucked

[@adrianriley753]

There isn't any Russo bashing here

[@callum6486]

Sorry but there's no defending the brawl for all. Regardless of your opinion of russo.

[@goldenserenity2385]

@@callum6486 AEW should have something like it. Most of their booking is 50/50 anyway

[@jefflord1972]

Jr still making excuses. Bart beat dr death by taking him down. That’s how he tore his quad. Dr death got beat in his own style

[@johnk7668]

58:45 Pronouns boy 😂 Vince was ahead of everyone on Pronouns. Does anyone know the origin of Pronouns on JR or Bruce’s pod when did they first discuss it?

[@josephnicolino8529]

The Brawl for All was bowling shoe ugly.

[@augustushaynes1311]

I was just thinking while looking at JR’s face during this episode….JR has the voice equivalent of the face of the “sexiest man alive”. To me, having an ugly face and a phenomenal voice is the next best thing to having a phenomenal face…not that JR is ugly. He’s ruggedly handsome for an older gentleman. With Jimmy Stewart’s charisma and John Wayne’s tenacity.

[@frankS773]

The cohost is terrible

[@jiggyjaguar]

Great let’s tick ross off 2 weeks in a row with nonsensical crap

[@cryptomnesiac]

Russo is the worst

[@d-mo733]

I’d LOVE to have seen Brian Pillman in this! Dude was small but a complete badass! A NT in the NFL! That’s insane! He was a tough motha fucker!

[@umbra7860]

Conrad the neck beard trying to sell a razor

[@TheSilverEagle]

JR was pissed about the brawl for all cause his boy Dr Death Steve Williams got knocked the fuck out.