Brawl Ganon is Awful

[@lordscottish69]

Guys, I’m literally detecting seismic activity. I never wanted to rock with anyone more than I want to with Ganondorf. That perfect, chiseled body. Those bountiful hills. The majestic mountains of a literal god. It honestly fricking hurts knowing that I'll never rock with him, pass my sediment through him, and have him birth a set of perfect hot springs. I'd do fricking ANYTHING for the chance to get Ganondorf’s rocks off. A N Y T H I N G. And the fact that I can't is quite honestly too much to fricking bear. Why would Sakurai create something so perfect? To fricking tantalize us? Fricking laugh in our faces?! Honestly guys, I just fricking can't anymore. Frick.

[@Brawlternative]

revolting comment. pinned

[@milos1967]

Revolting pin. Commented.

[@YourLocalNobody420]

I love the ending "frick."

[@Kirbyfan86_27]

@@Brawlternative Terminal Montage Registeel: “Revolting”

[@1snivy10]

Can we share him?

[@pr8nkster]

Flame Choke into Halberd laser is the best combo I've ever seen in all of Smash.

[@Kirbyfan86_27]

Same here

[@JediSteve-J3-]

Agreed

[@XylitoI]

What about Flame Choke into Meowth's Pay Day into Frigate Orpheon's side platform carrying you and your victim into the blastzone as the Pay Day hitstop is freezing you in place?

[@Kirbyfan86_27]

@@XylitoI lol what? That’s a thing? I never knew XD

[@XylitoI]

@@Kirbyfan86_27 Anything with rapid hits like the Halberd laser or Pay Day can make funny stuff happen with Flame Choke. The one I described can be seen in Meaning of Brawl by Trifroze.

[@doozy5184]

This is what losing to a time travelling kid with a talking fairy does to an mf

[@Sirnomegusta]

😂🎉

[@mr.awesome6011]

Wrong Ganondorf.

[@devaunbeats]

No it's not. Canonically the ganondorf in OOT is the one in TP​@@mr.awesome6011

[@Abstrac888]

It’s wild that Ganon has no projectile attacks in Smash because throwing energy balls is basically his signature move in the Zelda games…

[@LightsJusticeZ]

Not even really Ganon, he's just Captain Falcon from an evil multiverse.

[@WoffoAndLammy]

Energy balls would bring the ESRB rating to M for Mature. Alienating much of nintendos target audience.

[@TheCrusadingKING]

​@@WoffoAndLammyhow so? He uses them in the zelda games which are e10+

[@lol-ih1tl]

​@@WoffoAndLammy There are a lot of Fighters who have energy balls, including Samus and Mii Gunner

[@GameGod77]

Ganon's moveset would be so different if he wasn't introduced in Melee. It's sad to see him be a falcon clone when all the newer fighters get way more faithful movesets.

[@lt2660]

And this was sakurai's main who he *personally* balanced to be like that. Wild.

[@codetaku]

Honestly, it doesn't surprise me when you consider that Sakurai is widely remembered from this era as being better at Smash than everyone else at hal labs and probably also at Sora Ltd. Ganondorf had to be this garbage so that Sakurai would have competitive sets at the office. He never played actual good players at the time, lol he got destroyed by Toby Fox in friendlies a few years ago when they were arranging for Sans & Megalovania to be in Ult

[@MariaYuri-qo8jy]

So would you say that Sakurai is overall decent at smash? He always played so slowly when presenting a character that it felt like it was scripted. He did lose on the Kazuya video however... so I don't know.

[@jamesprumos7775]

Makes sense given how Smash came about because Sakurai felt bad dunking on a couple in King of Fighters in the arcade.

[@Riley-u8m]

​@@jamesprumos7775 that incident had no effect on how smash was designed, sakurai debunked that claim

[@unconcernedsalad2]

@@MariaYuri-qo8jydepends on your definition of good, but we can definitely say he’s not better than top players. which honestly is fine, he’s a developer, not a competitor. although opinion time i think it would be nice if they listened to top players a bit more (but not too much obviously lol)

[@bonk150]

dedede dthrow fsmash RUINED me theres no way man

[@finngeometry7570]

Of everyone it just had to be Ganon… I’m not sure what I was expecting.

[@flow185]

This is beyond diabolical ngl

[@Fredysaurus]

As a DDD main in ultimate I fucking burst out laughing upon hearing this lol. Absolutely criminal 😂

[@Steleaf]

13:40 that grab is so god damn funny, perfectly timed with the beam, 50%, and he had to play against MK in fucking halberd of all places, he deserved that 50% grab

[@sleepi8454]

thats what should happen every time he hits a side b in this game lmao

[@hmalba7864]

It actually looks like something Ganondorf would really do as a villain move, just choking one of the good guys out and holding them directly in the line of fire of a devistating attack while he takes no damage at all

[@padriazozzriaorizifian8672]

@@sleepi8454 Skewer but better

[@Baggerz182]

repent to God

[@hmalba7864]

@@Baggerz182 Repent to a god that's actually real

[@krubbington]

Had no idea Brawl Ganon was **literally** broken, much less to this extent. Great vid as always.

[@Castersvarog]

Like I knew Ganondorf was shit because he’s slower then a dying ground sloth, but he’s just fundamentally broken. Which is just insane

[@Brawlternative]

*I* knew the video content was going to be interesting but I also knew it would be a hard sell because Brawl Ganon = Worst is such a universally known fact. Thanks to both of you for giving it a chance and giving it a watch :) hope it was a treat even though you already knew the gist of it lol

[@Darksilver740]

I remember Scar talking about his first experience using GDorf. "I remember hitting someone with his downair... there was SO much landing lag that I got punished for it. And that was the day I quit Brawl."

[@YOSSARIAN313]

Im pretty sure i made a melee player quit brawl during my first tournament by spamming meta knight tornado. He was so incredibly angry. I was a 12 year old kid and he was a grown ass man. I was terrified and thought he was gonna beat me up

[@Krona-fb4dn]

@@YOSSARIAN313crazy, to think that Brawl was also the first smash game to have a balance team for it…

[@FloorFourteen]

Had about half of this same post typed out when I went to look to see if anyone already mentioned that. For some reason that Scar story stuck with me and really changed my mentality about dropping games if something just feels awful about it and to not waste my time when I could be doing anything else. It's almost like a game can anti-click where in a moment you are just like "Oh wow this is awful."

[@acetrainerben]

your dedication to saying "SmFoursh" almost made me click off the video after 30 seconds. but I also have to respect you for it

[@Brawlternative]

bro its been months i have to commit to it, i tried to say "smash 4" in one video and got even MORE hate than smfoursh gives me. the lesser of two evils

[@Kirbyfan86_27]

@@Brawlternative eh, don’t listen to the haters, say it however you like

[@Formula_Zero_EX]

Smfoursh is so funny sounding, that I decided to use this term from now on.

[@Kirbyfan86_27]

@@Formula_Zero_EX agreed

[@EnergyBurst2]

@@Brawlternative I ever so slightly resented the SmFoursh at the start (since its still my personal favorite smash game) but now I just find it a little bit amusing to hear since it sounds like such an awkward thing to say.

[@BrawlGanondorf]

Yeah bro I get it

[@guniverse.5847]

hahahahahahaha

[@thegamingbean953]

At least pmex remix gave you a sword

[@onepunchmudkip]

*puts thumbs in ears and sticks tongue out*

[@beastmode4tm]

"Ganon is awful" The sky is blue

[@TheKorenji]

Except when it's pink and when it's orange

[@AGZhark]

Well, he’s slow, but he has a good damage output

[@Skeloperch]

@@AGZhark No, his damage output is terrible. He can't combo for crap and he's not hitting raw smash attacks or Warlock Punches on anyone who has played a game before. Trust me, I play Ganondorf in every game. Outside of Melee, the best he can do is a string or two. Maybe fastfall Nair into jab for a sick nasty 22%. Meanwhile Mario gets 30% off of one grab into u-tilt into u-air strings. Basically every time you get a sweet hit off the game resets to neutral and you have to do it again.

[@user-it2kq4ty9q]

@@Skeloperchyes i noticed in ultimate he sucks so much when the opponent is at low percent because he is too slow to get an advantage state

[@eclipserepeater2466]

@@Skeloperch You can get people to walk into raw smash attacks as any character, you just need to extend your consciousness into the astral plane and write that outcome into the stars, and your opponent's tiny speck of agency will be unable to divert from the black hole of inevitability of just jumping right into your fsmash for absolutely no reason at all. It's easy!

[@alexv3375]

_"NO! NOT INTO BOTTOM TIER! _*_IT BUUURRRNS!_*_ "_

[@dontworry4945]

you DARE bring projectiles to my lair? *thunder fingers*

[@alexv3375]

@dontworry4945 _"ARRRGH! THE CHAINGRABS! _*_NOOOOOO!_*_ YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST OF ME!"_

[@josephnajarian2038]

The fact that Falco can spike Ganondorf the literal millisecond after Dark Dive ends is BEYOND diabolical.

[@Vlazeca]

One thing that’s very telling is that Ganondorf, in most Smash games, comes off as very strong. But in Brawl, even as a kid, Ganondorf felt super weak and underwhelming. He’s just that bad.

[@chouyuugoureplays3546]

he almost feels like an afterthought, here, put a 3rd zelda rep in, don't bother to playtest him.

[@crack4184]

​@@chouyuugoureplays3546He feels like that even today and he's in here since Melee

[@arvidbergman]

​@@crack4184 the sword smash attacks in ult really feel like a pity addition rather than actual care for ganondorf

[@chouyuugoureplays3546]

i am glad ma boi wolf was nowhere as bad as ganondorf

[@fadeemblem7665]

Yeah this is what got me about Ganondorf in Brawl, he's so bad that he even feels bad to play on a casual level. Like normally bottom tier characters have some sort of mode or skill level they shine in (Ultimate Ganondorf is amazing in casual play because he hits so incredibly hard) but Brawl Ganon is just unplayably bad even at the most casual level. It's actually kind of impressive how terrible he is.

[@gaffythefox]

that dedede grab into hammer combo is so fucking funny to me, it takes so long it looks like dedede just. pauses for a beat. like "wait, is this legal? is this ethical to do?" only to go "fuck it" and still hit despite contimplating the morality of this combo

[@uncreativecow5429]

i’ve never even played brawl but you have me clicking each upload within a minute

[@TheKorenji]

If you get a Wii, let's play some Brawl matches through Wiimfi

[@christianred9730]

You had no childhood

[@rainbowresorts]

​@@christianred9730corny

[@AGZhark]

@@christianred9730Let’s not be rude.

[@abcdefzhij]

@@TheKorenjiWii online stuff still works????

[@WarrenValion]

The Flame Choke into Halberd beam is the craziest most evil Ganondorf ass shit I have ever seen in Smash holy shit. Thank you for this video. Hi Coney.

[@Brawlternative]

there's something so surreal about the way they're both perfectly standstill. Like it leaves zero impact on him to hold up metaknight while the laser melts him LOL

[@PuppetMasterIX]

Sakurai actually mentioned on his channel one of the primary reasons the gameplay speed of Brawl was so much slower than Melee: They had to design the game in such a way that the motion controls for some of the game's various control schemes could behave at least somewhat reliably, and part of that tragically involved having to slow down the pace of the game.

[@anothenblue2630]

The other primary reason is that he hated how Melee players didn't play the game how he wanted them to. There are changes you can excuse with Wiimote, but then there are obvious changes meant to spite them like tripping, which is only really relevant if you're dashdancing.

[@DarkAura19]

I remember in an interview Sakurai said Ganondorf was his favorite character to play in Brawl. ... I don't believe him.

[@TheKorenji]

You underestimate the rush of adrenaline that comes when competing while using the balanced underdog chad skill pro character and actually getting decent results against your peers

[@Radddd]

Ganondorf is really fun in brawl though. You feel like you're in bullet time while the enemy dances around you. When you land that one fat boot or side B through their guard, you feel like you're one with the universe. Plus, if you die, it's expected. There are only positive vibes.

[@chouyuugoureplays3546]

shockingly not kirby, the protagonist that he designed, or king dedede, the character he actually voiced.

[@svgaming263]

@@TheKorenji Ganondorf is not the "balanced underdog" he's the coughing baby to Meta Knight's hydrogen bomb

[@TheKorenji]

@@svgaming263 He's also not the "chad skill pro" character because Ganondorf doesn't have any specially difficult tech, that's the joke.

[@W_Sinner]

I have heard of unsafe on hit but ganon's up b is the first move i have ever seen to be unsafe on existence

[@anothenblue2630]

Samus' second jab has become that at some point. Devs know it, but instead of fixing it, they tell you to not use it. What brilliant game design.

[@vanilla8956]

There's one thing that's the best about Brawl Ganondorf and it's his design. He looks like a gas station cashier in melee and like Shrek in Smash 4 but in Brawl's art style he's perfect. Which makes sense since brawl pretty much uses the same art style as Twilight Princess anyways

[@Brawlternative]

Ganon's OOT design is pretty sick, but I'm a Twilight Princess purist and think this design goes crazy. Not a fan of what they did to the model in smash 4, but I like that the smash 4 model has the hole in his chest lol

[@vanilla8956]

@@Brawlternative True, that battle scar would have made a great alt in Brawl. Also I find it funny that his Melee design is based on a tech demo, lol. Hopefully the next game lets us have plenty of alts alongside the TOTK design and hopefully a rework. (Plus add Black Shadow from F-ZERO to replace the old moveset)

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

​@@vanilla8956 You did NOT just try to use the God-almighty design that is Shrek as an insult

[@anothenblue2630]

Actually, it doesn't use same artstyle. It literally reuses the models with no real changes (textures and rig are a bit different, but not enough to be meaningful). I think Zelda characters are the only ones who do it in Brawl.

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

yeah he looked his best in Brawl and I think Smash 4 kinda took a dookie on the design, though Smash 4's model has some very memeable expressions I love, Though it does kinda make you realize Ganondorf IS a joke character to the devs, alongside all these horrible decisions they keep making with him (falcon clone, horrible moveset balancing/design, going out of their way to make him bad in every game). Maybe even the Zelda devs given how both teams seem to not take him seriously these days. I do wish Brawl had kept the red cape from TP though, that was much more sick than the blue they went with in Brawl. If Dorf had the wound on his chest in Brawl he'd have been perfect. Even if Ganon sucks and it's not even the same character as Ganondorf from his own serious on a conceptual level, he does gets some super good designs. Though for every Brawl and Ult there is a Smash 4 and Melee I guess, lol. I can't help but love the incredibly stupid Melee and Smash 4 models but Smash Ganon as a whole and those models as well probably contributed to people thinking he's a joke overall.

[@HomeRunChips]

As a retired Brawl HRC pro player, I can definitely say that Ganon is Top Tier in HRC lol

[@LuisSilva-yc5fz]

ayooo brawl HRC was hype

[@HomeRunChips]

@@LuisSilva-yc5fz Yea! My brother and I were mostly doing co-op and we invented the "Seesaw" strat which actually looks really boring but is kinda funny. The strat is basically 1 player dropping the bat multiple times into the sandbag while the other player uses a move that prevents the sandbag from flying away due to the knockback. And thats where Ganon shines the most. His auto cancelable Dair was perfect for this strat. You could just spam it while the other player dropped the bat to deal damage. And by repeating these moves the 2 characters are constantly jumping up and down and thats where the seesaw strat got its name. If you are interested to see it you can watch one of my Ganon videos, Like Ganon x Ganon or Ganon x Samus, Ganon x Fox. We did it with a lot characters haha.

[@LuisSilva-yc5fz]

@@HomeRunChips i used to watch HRC videos all the time back then and I definitely remember your tag among my favorites, it's been such a great journey to see

[@HomeRunChips]

@@LuisSilva-yc5fz good days!

[@kirbyx2573]

Its honestly such a bloody shame Ganondorf never was able to fully get away from being a Captain Falcon clone.. such a big what could have been, both Tier List wise and Moveset wise. So much unused potential..

[@krameraad]

True, it's sad. There are lots of characters that suffer from wasted potential, even non-clone characters. The earliest introduced characters especially represent their series very little. Donkey Kong for example doesn't throw barrels, use barrel cannons or ride animal buddies. Mario doesn't even inflict damage when footstooling, even though that's supposed to be his whole thing. Ganon and the other early characters would have been way different had they been introduced now.

[@AGZhark]

I honestly enjoy that he’s still got similar moves to Captain Falcon. It’s like those Pokemon that SEEM like part of the same evolutionary line, but are different.

[@Sticker_By_NCT_127]

I don’t even think you can make the argument that keeping him the way he is makes him more hype, because I feel like his lamest moves are ones that he takes from Captain Falcon (except dair). Falcon Punch is one of the hypest moves in the game because whenever you land it, it feels like you risked it all and made the most calculated read imaginable. Warlock Punch, on the other hand, is so slow that the only way someone gets hit by it is if the opponent falls asleep. Landing it feels more like “lemme press this button and see how it goes”, rather than a true read.

[@jcdentoid]

@@Sticker_By_NCT_127 The super armor on warlock punch makes it land-able, but its still a hard read, not as ridiculous as his up-tilt.

[@user-it2kq4ty9q]

@@krameraadbeing one of the most fun characters in the game isnt a waste

[@pseudohippie55]

Back in the Brawl days, my friends and I had a joke that Gray haired Ganondorf was Captain Falcon's father since they were essentially Echos before Echo fighters. One match between 2 of my friends as ganon and Falcon started, and the Falcon screamed "I DON'T WANT A FATHER!". The Ganondorf proceeded to throw Falcon off stage and spike him within 10 seconds of the match starting. Everyone burst out laughing.

[@GabrielAidley]

that sounds amazing

[@pseudohippie55]

@GabrielAidley It was hysterical. The Falcon SDd immediately so er could save the replay since brawl onlynlet you replays of matches less than 3 minutes

[@mateuspokemon01]

There was this girl who not only was the best Ganon player in our local brawl competitive scene but arguably the best brawl player as she won multiple tournaments by playing solo ganon. Also no one used meta knight as a main, and Zelda (not sheik) also won multiple tournaments. Our scene was pretty wild.

[@zs9652]

Brawl had a lot of die hard character mains lol.

[@PeruvianPotato]

Damn 9 year old me would've loved to participate in that tournament

[@SILVERxCHRONO]

Literally nobody stepped up over weeks to beat her? Any character? No Zelda or meta knight? Really? Against ganon? Yeahhh I'm calling b.s., your scene wasn't "wild" it's imaginary.

[@SILVERxCHRONO]

You're so full of 💩 💩💩 it's incredible

[@PeruvianPotato]

@@SILVERxCHRONO I mean I was doing extremely well with Yoshi back in the day and even recently in Brawl matches with other people in university and he isn't exactly the best character in the game

[@dann790]

You know, since Dylan Sprouse had briefly commentated for Project M, it's possible that he sees this video and sees that he is randomly included at 2:55 lol

[@Brawlternative]

holy shit i forgot about that, he actually was sorta involved in the scene huh?

[@Vaaads]

i loved the song, "sophisticated fight" during the final section of the video, i've been hearing it in a lot of videos recently and it just makes me wonder if anyone has actually played the "Trails in the Sky" games or the series in general. Absolutely phenomenal

[@Brawlternative]

buddy of mine recommended the song to me for the video when I was trying to find one that fit, it's amazing :) always wanted to try Trails games but the entry barrier seems insane with the whole overarching story thing lol

[@OVO-Adolf]

@@Brawlternativethat’s cool and all but I’m gonna finger you

[@photon_break]

@@Brawlternative the first two games, trails in the sky and trails in the sky sc are their own story really. They set up the world for the later ones but if you want to just try some you could just get those and see if you like it

[@Vaaads]

@Brawlternative yeahhh, it can definitely be a bit much to take in but it eases you into the story. The entire story is truly a masterpiece of storytelling, character development and the music is out of this world. That song barely scratches the surface of the great music the entire series has to offer

[@darthgamer9861]

dude I love Trails in the Sky

[@dannypalin9583]

The intro to Smash 4 has Luigi use his side taunt to dodge Ganondorf's Warlock Punch. This implies that not even Luigi is afraid of him.

[@KishinAubrey]

smash ultimate ganondorf, despite being unanimously considered the worst character, is probably more viable than brawl's low tiers and maybe even lower-mid or even mid mid tiers

[@jangamecuber]

Ultimate ganon is the same as melee ganon, and in melee ganon is mid tier so this is probably correct

[@sebastianturner2458]

I fucking love ultimate ganon. He's Not Good but I adore him.

[@troykv96]

And Ganondorf is mostly the worst because someone had to be worst, there aren't any truly unreedemeable characters in Ultimate, just objectively less optimal choices.

[@megatennepster3833]

I'd personally say that it's either him or Mac, but I tend to lean Ganon more, but the fact there can even be a debate

[@YOSSARIAN313]

Ultimate is arguably the most balanced fighting game ever made

[@Kirbyfan86_27]

Damn, they really dunked on Ganon in brawl, and Sakurai said he plays Ganon as well, at least in Brawl, what a fall from grace in Melee, and fantastic video, keep up the good work!

[@sareaper69]

Someone tell this guy about periods lol.

[@gamenwatch6269]

Then Sakurai was like fine I'll make Ganon a Lil better and he was still bottom tier in Smash 4 and then Sakurai said yet again.... Ok, fine I'll buff him again and give him a cool sword. How about that eh? So cool right? And..... he's still bottom tier in Ultimate. At this point I feel like Ganon will always be that really fun character to play, but will never be competitively viable to win like majors...

[@Kirbyfan86_27]

@@sareaper69 Ain’t editing my comment because of you, deal with it

[@sareaper69]

@@Kirbyfan86_27 my point stands.

[@ConcavePgons]

​@@gamenwatch6269 According to Sakurai's KZbin channel, Ganondorf is actually a fairly balanced character, as his win rates are comparable to other characters in the roster. I'm guessing this is because the game is designed with the average (online) player in mind, rather than focusing solely on the highest-level competitive players.

[@CapnLexCrunch]

some more good notes about Ganon: Thunderstorm : buffered short hop down airs. These would auto cancel and could be used both offensively and defensively. He should actually be doing this a lot in neutral. IASA up smash: The end lag on his up smash is nowhere as long as it looks like it should be, and you can act out of it surprisingly fast as a frame trap Reverse stutter stepped fsmash: You can add reach to forward smash by delaying the input so that you get some of the initial dash before committing. If you smash stick in the opposite direction, then you get turned around twice and massively increased the reach on the smash. Up air ledgedash: If you ledge drop and then immediately double jump and up air, the way the animation affects your collision box makes you touch the ground much sooner than expected while covering you with a hit box and auto canceling Edge guard: reverse up air (especially Tipman) and down air were practically certain death when connected Up tilt wind box: The charge on up tilt create a wind box in front of you that pulls in, which Has an interesting interaction with the tumble state. If Snake blows himself up with C4 to recover and hits the wind box, it completely cancels, knockback and sends him straight down. Lots of interesting interactions with items as well. forward air: if you timed it right, the hit box on forward air would come out before the animation that should be attached to it. The attack is still flawed, but it makes it very difficult to read. there's probably a bunch more that I'm forgetting because it's been so long, but Ganon had to utilize every single one of these things and more, which is part of what made him so much fun

[@prolificpoultry4899]

And my favorite ganon tech. If you do an f-tilt immediately after a spot dodge then you slide forward like five inches

[@Leet-iz2fz]

9:16 Honestly the notion of Ganondorf being extremely punishable but having godlike recovery sounds like a perfect in-character way to balance him. He's thwarted again and again, but he's never truly gone for good.

[@SuperCrazyfin]

2:55 Brawl (and Melee) was given an "A" rating by Cero, the Japanese Rating Authority, which means suitable for all ages, so that's less to do with any aspect of brawl and more to do with overseas rating boards.

[@Brawlternative]

Super interesting, didn't know that. Appreciate the insight :)

[@LunaticJ]

Watching till the end reaffirmed my stance that Ganon dittos in Brawl are sick af

[@Brawlternative]

genuinely does not get better than that. He may be terrible, but Ganon is so much fun to play

[@princephantom1294]

Ok but that flame choke into the halberd laser is something Ganon would actually do in lore and I love that.

[@bulb9970]

I had no idea about that RCO stuff, that sounds like a nightmare. Btw insanely impressive editing, wish you all the luck with the full time approach.

[@TheOneSapCan]

13:42 this is how Ganon took the Halberd in Subspace

[@radaf4429]

That's not "Pogo Stick down air." That's THUNDERSTORMING. Thank you.

[@Brawlternative]

Never heard this term before. That's hardcore LOL

[@DoMorrMusic]

Coney: “Ganondorf in Brawl is how he should be”

[@davidchang9740]

Do you have a clip of this?

[@DoMorrMusic]

@@davidchang9740 my source is I made it up

[@bigandhairyrichard6333]

hes gonna say it now first thing in the video

[@sharkronical]

Every Ganon is trained wrong as a joke

[@AwesomeMooseSmile]

​@@davidchang9740 He did say in a David Kimball reaction that he likes how shitty Ganondorf is because he's supposed to be scary and powerful yet he's always a bottom tier

[@Sulidaire]

Bro. Thank you for your detailed videos and descriptions. You are very thorough with creating a comprehensive project. I wouldnt be surprised if you created a Brawl documentary

[@arios6443]

Considering that Sakurai played Ganondorf in this game, I wonder if he nerfed the character because he kept destroying the other players.

[@AGZhark]

Maybe he overdid the trade off of Ganondorf being powerful yet slow.

[@YOSSARIAN313]

I doubt it. Sakurai is actually not all that good at smash.

[@SonOfaChipwich]

Small thing: it's "QA" testers, as in Quality Assurance, not "Q and A," as in Question and Answer.

[@Gabbycatty]

2:50 I believe Sakurai said it was also because of being able to play with a Wiimote sideways, they had to make things easier for that too.

[@Jamm7]

Man, never has then been more of a sad character then Brawl Ganondorf

[@Formula_Zero_EX]

Does Guilty Gear: The Missing Link Potemkin count? He hardly can do anything in his respective game, either.

[@ThePi314Man]

4:28 i was not at all expecting to see Adventure Quest content referenced in 2024 what a blast from the past that is.

[@Brawlternative]

gotta keep the channel era-relevant lmfao

[@porkmasmmo]

was just about to comment this i audibly went "no fucking way"

[@cal5964]

The character assassination the smash series did as a whole to Ganondorf is worse then what DreamWorks did to Megamind with Megamind 2

[@Kisarez]

Moving around with Ganon in Brawl feels like the game is working against you, like headwind

[@VenclaireVR]

4:05 i know its being pedantic, but melee and every game after it still has crouch cancelling. the ASDI down and all the other funky stuff that allows you to ignore hitstun from low knockback moves is gone. if you CC an attack, you still take significantly less knockback, even in Ultimate

[@SuPeRbOoMfAn]

I remember seeing Koskinator tear metaknights apart back in the day with his ganondorf. Watching these metaknights get demolished by him, the lack of matchup experience was so funny. One of the players came up to me and begged me to give him advice to fight ganondorf LMFAO. I was one of the few that knew how to fight ganondorf at the time. Good times. Good times.

[@ju2tunknown]

0:04 i've never heard anyone say Sm4sh out loud

[@ikagura]

Smafoursh?

[@comfyasf]

(grainy wii remote speaker) "HUOYAH"

[@captainphoton1693]

Terry's sf6 theme is a banger. Glad you don't just use smash music.

[@Brawlternative]

Era-relevant music usually has the priority (PS1/PS2 themes are peak game soundtrack) but I do make a bunch of exceptions if I think the OST works particularly well for segment :)

[@Hu-kun]

The fact Dark Dive is that weak(and got nerfed in Brawl) is so comical, it's equally baffling that it's almost unchanged in Smash 4 lol

[@sigomare]

Remember, the worst is not how Meta Knight is broken, nor even how Gannondorf is terrible. It's the fact that Nintendo devs said " Yup, they both look balanced one to another. "

[@chadpeterson5698]

9:50 Sakurai still hates Ganondorf. There’s a reason why he refused to use the better custom moves for Ganondorf from Smash 4 in Ultimate. And then proceeded to humiliate him by having Kazuya throw him off a cliff.

[@megascrafty1624]

Stop what you’re doing, brawlternative posted

[@Kirbyfan86_27]

Yep, I got here very early

[@BrianM_3rd]

We're Brawlternative guys, of course we drop what we're doing at 12:43am GMT to watch the new upload instead of going to bed.

[@crazy-guy098]

Despite all of that, Ivysaur is still worse than Ganondorf [though excluding Ivy's fire weakness and stamina, yeah Ganondorf is worse ☠]

[@EGADbySparksInd]

Up next is the long awaited video "Meta Knight is good"

[@AGZhark]

It gets funnier after the billionth time

[@TatsuHaven]

Never thought I'd hear Knights Of the Holy Spear in a video and it works for the moment til today this was awesome

[@M1sf1re]

Such a banger theme

[@Brawlternative]

I love Persona 2 so I put it in as a placeholder to be like "hahaha bad man theme for funny bad man" but when I watched it back after editing i was like oh. Oh shit. This bangs LOL

[@TatsuHaven]

@@Brawlternative fire taste in games :] happy to see the soundtracks show up commonly in ur vids

[@big_noli]

4:58 worry is my favourite album, you have good taste

[@imESAM]

DLA was genuinely very sick

[@MDGboyy]

"Smuh Foursh" (Sm4sh) got me immediately i love that proununciation LOL

[@monikasalt]

10:42 This project M ahh combo

[@theStridingRebel]

I just wish that TP Ganondorf was a costume in Ultimate. I honestly miss his old smash attacks too, that up smash kick just felt so good to land.

[@Diamond_Aura]

I remember some friends when I was a kid saying Ganon was awful in Brawl; I wasn’t anywhere close to a competitive player at the time so it felt weird for them to say with how strong his moves were. Over a decade later though? Especially now hearing literally even the intended code is working AGAINST him by accident? Yeah no I get it, he probably is the worst Smash character ever designed

[@StarlightEcho912]

I don't remember where I heard it, nor do I care to verify the story myself, but apparently Sakurai himself actually went to a Brawl local basically just after the game released. What character did he choose to play? None other than the big man, Ganon. I don't remember if he supposedly went 0-2 or made Grands, but imagine it's whichever one you find funnier.

[@YOSSARIAN313]

Sakurai isnt that good at smash so i doubt he made grands

[@MenwithHill]

If only Sakurai would give us Toon Ganon, that could be a real winner.

[@primefighter9868]

Omega Tyrant told me a little on how bad competitive Brawl Ganon was... Man...

[@terrortaste6389]

You know a smash creator is good when they pronounce sm4sh phonetically

[@StanleySophana]

There's one thing I like about Brawl Ganon is that he can Ganoncide his opponents and then send the game into Sudden Death

[@LovelyToaster]

that combo you ended with was unironically disgusting

[@goofybidoofie]

Production is crazy you're the goat

[@paulcurran302]

You know it’s a good day when Brawlternative and Turndownforwalt both drop 🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@Mrnotpib]

Oh the editing. Thank you aSumsus for your contributions to our culture. Smash videos would and should be edited like this for forever. Glad you’re doing for Brawl what he’s done for Melee.

[@EtheRenard]

Many blame Brawl for being slow, but that may be the reason the Smash community is that big now! I don't think playing Melee was enough to make me want another Smash game, as I was a beginner! Brawl however allowed me to get active on forums and helped me develop my self esteem as a Smash player

[@babybababofski7908]

I almost did an actual spit take when I saw that dedede downthrow forward smash

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

I watch a lot of competitive Ultimate, I've seen many people talk about how awful Brawl Ganondorf is, but after watching this video, he's clearly even worse than I expected. This character is completely useless.

[@warioland523]

The only thing I really like about Ganon in Brawl was how they handled him in the story. He came off as a chessmaster playing both sides. Even his own followers in the form of Bowser and Wario he seemed perfectly content with using and feigned allegiance to the Master Hand with the intent of betraying him. This only backfired because he didn't know Master Hand was a puppet to Tabuu and he was way out of his league. But had Ganon been right and it was Master Hand acting of his own free will and not Tabuu pulling the strings. He could have won. Taking his status as the big bad and probably have used the power of subspace to become the big bad final boss. Actually now that I think about it. That would have been a better boss fight then Tabuu. I think the only reason why they went the route with having Tabuu as the last boss is because they wanted an excuse to have Ganon join the resistance against Subspace. But you can tell Ganon hates it. He angrily clenches his fist before he resigns in anger and reluctantly joins bitter that he has to work alongside his enemies to get revenge against Tabuu. But yeah as a playable character. Dang he's awful.

[@ManateeMentality]

The fact that they added tripping to Brawl is proof that Sakurai is capable of making mistakes.

[@omega_ra1der511]

being a ganon main in smash 4, seeing this vid warms my heart as I was able to talk to a lot of the brawl vets so I know some of the stuff by osmosis. The hitstun cancel is actually insanely messed up because in melee and smash 4/ult, your opponent had to tech jump the stage to punish you but they could mash? that's wild. I was waiting for the SHAC dair mention at the end. Funnily enough, it was called thunderstorming by the brawl ganons. I don't know the exact reason but you can probably extrapolate from it. It's a cool name for a tech.

[@vesoralla2]

When I was little, I legit enjoyed playing Ganondorf in Brawl. Back then, I never understood why he was considered the worst. (Though I did understand how good Meta Knight was)

[@alexisgallantvigneault6677]

I've watched this on Coney's channel so I had to come back to give it a like, comment and subscribe. Great content!

[@morganafrompersona5444]

I never understood why ganon was never a sword fighter since at least in brawl and smash 4 you play as Twilight princess ganon you know the Ganon you actually have a sword fight with

[@illyon1092]

the flame choke section was a good light at the end of the tunnel. This is the type of flashiness I enjoy, and I now appreciate Ganondorf a little more than before.

[@kolby125]

no shit the square goes in the square hole

[@brettdavis5555]

Ganondorf in Melee was my favorite character. My heart sank when I used him in Brawl for the first time.

[@weezahd114]

"smuhfoursh" 💀

[@shinkou5625]

Trails in the Sky music at 13:28? You’re goated

[@FirstLastname604]

The worst character in the game for three consecutive games. Bro can’t even fall off cause he was never on to begin with 😭

[@the_bookworm8281]

He is far from the worst in SSB4, but he was pretty weak in that game. Even in Melee, the character has fallen off the meta as time went on. Dude can never catch a break in any Smash game.

[@gbx4858]

@@the_bookworm8281I wouldn’t say far from the worst, he was still bottom five in sm4sh

[@AGZhark]

@@gbx4858Smash WiiU/3DS

[@jman2050]

In Ultimate at least he’s only the worst because every character is functional and someone has to be. He could be in a LOT worse spot. They just need to give him a real recovery for once.

[@EGadjo]

@@jman2050 I feel like letting his side b go farther in mid-air and not put him in freefall, and turning his crappy warlock punch into a slow projectile (like the lightning ball you so often have to play tennis with as Link in several of the games?) would go a long way towards making him more fun.

[@CapSwag]

Why is the quality better than all other smash content? Current favorite channel, always watch the new stuff!

[@Magic_Ice]

Watching this video is watching a man get violated again again and again

[@cordeliafrey9950]

Nice pfp. Love to see other Xenoblade fans in the wild

[@ElectricSoldier]

Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages. ... Wait, wrong Ganondorf.

[@Alex-95-Gaming]

Ganondorf is such a joke character, that him just taking even one stock is the most hype I see anyone be for Brawl lol

[@WiiMoteGodYT]

I was just playing Brawl Ganondorf for a couple hours, this video was just the icing on the cake

[@Iso_SSB]

this is the most chill title I’ve ever seen 😂

[@mandalorianhunter1]

This was great Also nice using the Nina and Eddy music from Tekken 3. It's one of my favorite games and OST of all time

[@RolandTheJabberwocky]

Gotta say, it's really stupid that for THE THIRD TIME, the smash community is waiting for the larger community to fully die out or the next game to release before we ban the unfun and blatantly over powered character.

[@TheAweDude1]

4:29 Just casually dropping goddamn Void Vigilante armor from Adventure Quest. Love it.