Breaking Down the Thunder Saga | EPIC: The Musical

awkrates returns to lock you in on the thunder saga

[@MildlyPerturbed]

I honestly think Eurylochus was shocked by how viscerally afraid and panicked Odysseus was after he slit the sacred cow’s throat. I don’t think he excepted such a strong reaction from him. At that point, Eurylochus had given up, thinking it was all pointless. He’d rather go out on a full stomach than die by starvation (which was a humiliating death in Ancient Greece). Seeing Odysseus desperately give orders to the crew, take their lives into account, and frantically ordering them to get off the island, rather than trying to solely escape himself, showed that deep down Odysseus still cared for the crew. I think Eurylochus saw this when he acknowledged him as “Captain” again. His last defeated conversation with Odysseus before he died showed how he had finally resolved himself and realized that while Odysseus cared for his crew, he still loved his wife more and seeing her again was the prime motivator for him to get home. I think this is perfectly encapsulated in “Mutiny” when Odysseus first sings “I need to get home!” (thinking of himself first), and then “We can get home!” (showing the crew’s best interests came after). This is wonderfully contrasted in “Full Speed Ahead,” because back then, Odysseus made sure to scout out the Lotus Eater’s island first to make sure it was safe for his crew. But after he became the “Monster,” his priorities changed to getting home no matter what, even at the expense of his own crew who he kept alive and fought alongside for 10+ years.

[@DrakeDragonton]

Eurylochus is low key way more of a tragic character than Polites. I defiantly felt his “But we’ll die” far more than the one song of character development we got with Polites. Not that I hate polities, I love his character and am sad he dies, but he literally only got one song basically (Although it’s an S tier song and my first ever favorite), but Eurylochus. Bro was so hungry he was willing to die. If that’s no the most relatable feeling man-to-man, I don’t know what is.

[@ShyyGaladriel]

Exactly this.

[@JaelynMcgee]

yeah and while he definently fucked up with the wind bag, I don't blame him or the crew for staging a mutiny given everything that happened to them back to back. He gave some fair criticism of how arrogant Ody is around the gods in the Storm Saga which is his right as second in command to say since he's the voice of the crew, even if it wasn't the best place to share his thoughts, tried to come clean almost as soon as the Cersei saga starts and sees a bunch of men painfully turned into pigs, sees a bunch of them die partially due to his actions and then sees the ghosts of them not long after, and then sees his captain and king sacrifice six the few men they have left so he specifically can get home. I would have snapped too, esp if the man doing all of this was my best friend, literal boss in multiple different forms and literal brother-in-law

[@MildlyPerturbed]

Yes I agree! I felt more attached to Eurylochus than I did with Polites, even though I knew they’d both die because of the Odyssey.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Polites is a simpler flatter character without inner conflict while the second in command is a flawed layered and "real" character which makes him more controversial but also more relatable and yeah hurtful

[@DrakeDragonton]

@@SingingSealRiana True

[@issackoi]

And no one mentions the fact that the "I AM NOT LETTING YOU GET IN MY WAY" has the same melody as antinuous' "i am not letting any part go to waste" in the hold them down snippet 💀

[@tooawkwrd]

WOAHHH, that's such a good callout. I totally hear it in there. Good job catching that.

[@BlueMoonMCYT]

Wait that’s so true!! How did I not realize that

[@user-yh6kx6rr8z]

Aaaand you just blew my mind

[@issackoi]

@user-yh6kx6rr8z well not many people noticed it so ye

[@issackoi]

@BlueMoonMCYT if you havent heard the hold them down snippets right after the mutiny snippet you wouldnt have realized it

[@13WolfSteel]

Something I love about Eurylochus calling Odysseus “Ody” is that, please correct me if I’m wrong, this is the first time he has called him by anything close to his name. For that moment, Eurylochus drops any honorific and talks to Odysseus as a friend. I love that they share the moment together as equals. Instead of Captain and Second-in-command, it’s just Odysseus and Eurylochus talking like they’ve probably done in the past, just with a much more sombre tone. I’m probably thinking too much into it, but I just love that moment.

[@tooawkwrd]

Me too

[@cepahreinholt8710]

Yeah and also because of the mutiny odyseus is no longer his captain. But when he mess up by killing the cow he is quick to call him captain again. Not so easy to be the one with all the power and all the blame...

[@whitenobeard]

Something i've noticed about Eurylochus is that he doesn’t have a unique instrument tied to him. Every other named character has a specific instrument or musical motif associated with them. Except for him, and thats because his instrument is the crew. When he speaks they speak, he is the voice of the crew. Where Polites was Ody's best friend, and represented his humanity and hope for peace. Eurylochus is his logic, he represents Ody's responsibility, his right hand man meant to keep him in check. When Polites died Eurylochus tries to take on his role, but he's too focused on the needs of the crew to think with hope.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Jay made a vid about that just a few days ago, his instrument is the choir of the men for whom he speaks and who then back him up

[@MildlyPerturbed]

My jaw dropped when I saw the animatics for Scylla, Mutiny, and Thunder Bringer during the livestream. I actually gasped when Perimedes stabbed Odysseus. I believe Jorge is very involved in the process when commissioning these animatics. He detailed and outlined his entire process when he worked with WolfyTheWitch on the Ocean Saga trailer. He sent many reference videos, and decided on the colours, facial expressions, and overall look of the characters. If he was this involved when it came to these animatics like he was for the Ocean Saga trailer, then Jorge’s built different! He’s great at singing, writing, composing, AND cinematography?!! What can’t this man do? And he was worried he wouldn’t be able to make us feel emotions lol

[@comickazii6629]

Important to remember he's also the crew's KING. If they killed him, they'd be committing regicide! Even if they made it home, what would the rest of Ithaca do if they found out? Their families? Even if they didn't care about Odysseus (which I think they do) they can't kill their king, but maybe they can get home without him in charge and be forgiven later. Edit:Ugh, something else. Watch Neal Illustrators animation of Thunder Bringer. His portrayal of Zeus is INCREDIBLE.

[@user-vm6eo2wv2i]

yess omg i watched it yesterday and its amazing

[@Anonyomus_commenter]

Who would know they had killed him tho? Just make up some story about him making an honourable sacrifice trying to save the men from Scylla or something

[@comickazii6629]

@Anonyomus_commenter Same reasons Zeus gave Odysseus for killing the infant. Life can just work out that way. Even if it doesn't, the gods will tell them. It can't be risked.

[@dragonblast417]

I always prefer the animatic where Eurylochus doesn't botter to attack Odysseus in Thunder Bringer ⚡ Not because of his loyalty as his friend but, as the song Mutiny showed. He's tired😔 As far as he's concerned, He's done fighting, he's tired in trying to survive, he's accepted that he'll never go home and that this is how it ends😔

[@aliaab123]

Justice for Eurylochus. Thunder Saga turned me into a Eurylochus stan. He is such a heartbreaking character.

[@absolplayz8773]

I love the way they decide to introduce zeus with this song. He doesn't seem to really care about all the shit that's gone on. He's not there to take revenge in the name of his brother poseiden (which is pretty accurate since in greek, they constantly have beef). He's not there to attack out of hatred of their crimes. He's there because their pride got too big, and he wants to knock them down a peg. I mean, when you listen to the lyrics and how he's almost happy to be there. To zeus, this is just another Tuesday to show mortals their place. He shows up, sings his own theme song about how great he is, knocks the mortal down and kills a crew, then dips like nothing happened. That's perfect for zeus' own song.

[@RamdomMartini13]

I think Penelope in the sky is visually, auditorily, and thematically Odysseus’s temptation and selfishness in the last moments of Thunder Bringer. I thought Zeus was fuckin with him for a bit but if it isn’t that, in his despair that’s why she shows up

[@ClawedAsh]

0:49 You go man! Fight the Eurylochus hate, my boy deserves so much better

[@rozanyg3880]

Some people forget that it is alright if a FICTIONAL character has done or said some questionable things. Eurylochus has had his moments but to his core, he is there for his men. When he was starving, he was delirious and, as Awkotes said, he was tired with the seemingly hopeless situation. Some call Eurylochus a hypocrite but I feel like he was always true to who he was. He felt betrayed by Odysseus sacrificing six men because Odysseus consciously made that decision. In Circe's island, they unknowingly put themselves in the trap. There is a difference between losing men to a situation that occurred (Polyphemus) and putting them in that situation knowingly and not fight to survive like they did in Polyphemus like Eurylochus mentioned.

[@dragonfly._.doodles]

3:34 I thought there was a glitch with the audio and Jay was being played twice BUT NO you’ve just got a very similar register and you sing it BEAUTIFULLY

[@DrakeDragonton]

I would actually think he could a really good cover as Odysseus.

[@tooawkwrd]

aw shucks

[@SwedishChayonaise]

@@tooawkwrd You actually sing really good man :D

[@tooawkwrd]

@@SwedishChayonaise you flatter me too much my friend, thank you tho

[@marli01]

While I agree with most of the points you mentioned about Eurylochus, Jorge just recently confirmed that Eurylochus has an electric guitar in Mutiny because he is trying to take his place as captain.

[@tooawkwrd]

I’m not arguing he doesn’t attempt to be captain I’m arguing that he doesn’t want to be captain. He’d much rather Odysseus get his shit together and stay captain, but in that moment he felt he needed to step up.

[@marli01]

@@tooawkwrd Oh ok, I understand what you mean now. I totally see that.

[@DrakeDragonton]

As Awkrotes was singing along with Odysseus during Suffering, I could personally FEEL the beard hairs entering my mouth. I’m sorry for your pain, brother.

[@tooawkwrd]

😭 lmao after recording when I took that shit off I was cooked

[@DrakeDragonton]

@@tooawkwrd 😂😂

[@Nana-uh1vx]

I really think in different beast it's important to point out that after Odysseus says "let them drown" the crew changes to "He is a different beast now" become he became so ruthless the rest of the crew were just following his orders. It's the difference between them following their king and Odysseus being the montser he needed to become in order to return to Ithaca; it's also the first time the crew sees the signs of Ody losing it, and when i think Eurylochus starts to see him in another light.

[@dragonblast417]

I always prefer the animatic where Eurylochus doesn't botter to attack Odysseus in Thunder Bringer Not because of his loyalty as his friend but, like you said. He's tired As far as he's concerned, He's done fighting, he's tired in trying to survive, he's accepted that this is how it ends

[@canyawn]

4:48 I have no idea if this is what's intended or not since I don't really keep up with Jay's socials all that much, but in my head this whole time I've been thinking that the way Odysseus talks in this moment is the real Odysseus, the one before the war. We haven't seen him talk like that really at all and, if that is how he used to talk to Penelope, it's another point that really sells how much he truly does love her. The sirens may be trying to trick Odysseus, but he is taking advantage of them taking on his wife's form/personality to try and find another reason to keep going besides just trying to find a route to get home. After 10 years (or "12 years or so") of not seeing his wife, the only time that he has been able to get anywhere close to her is by a foe that he can easily resist. I absolutely adore the idea of him playing with his food, the same exact thing that the sirens are doing. It isn't until the sirens start to sing together again at the end that he realizes that despite everything he wishes, she is not his wife. And although he knows this and leaves with a relatively clean conscious about the aftermath, the siren's calls are the only thing that he can cling onto in regards to Penelope. He sings the same phrase of "Penelope... Telemachus" in the first act over and over again, but the last time it's said up to this point was at the end of Monster, which I think might be the last time because that was when Odysseus essentially betrayed everyone around him; Polites, Eurylochus, even his mom. I think that the siren's calls will fully replace this old phrase and definitely set a good tonal shift between Act I and Act II,; "Penelope... Telemachus" was a phrase that Ody would sing over and over again to give himself strength and to show that he loves and cares for his wife and son with his whole life and he would do anything for them, while "I would take the suffering for you" is this imaginary situation in his head where despite him not knowing anything of what's happening back home, he fully expects his wife to be doing the same for him. It starts to feel less and less like love but moreso a repeated idea of 'I'm suffering for you, I hope you're suffering just as much for me.' (In terms of being loyal and trying to do everything in her power to try and get her husband back home/make sure he's even still alive) 31:28 - 36:35 It is SO incredibly hard to tell without any staging for the songs to tell what the characters are going through in the moment because, while a lot can be taken from their words, it can only take the listener so far. In my head, Odysseus really believes that Eurylochus has doomed and killed them all and is struck with fear/paralyzed until he's asked to choose. The way he says "Choose?" doesn't just seem like he's surprised that Zeus is asking him to make the decision on his behalf like I've seen a lot of comments kind of leaning towards, but more as a desperate cry for help as well as being caught off guard after being in his own head accepting his death to one of the most powerful gods. Obviously he doesn't want to kill his men, and I think that can be seen as pretty obvious by how shaky his voice is when talking to Eurylochus at the end. He's content to die to the hands of his men because he knows what he's done is wrong and goes against literally everything he instilled in them during the first act, but the slightest chance that his crew doesn't kill him by the time Zeus gets to them is a chance he's willing to take to see Penelope even despite this newly warped idea of his wife in his mind. Love the EPIC vids, so glad I came across this channel after the Thunder Saga released! Can't wait to hopefully see a lot more videos in regards to EPIC, and I CANNOT wait for the Wisdom Saga! Thanks for making reaction and breakdown vids that are both educational and incredibly fun/engaging to watch!

[@MildlyPerturbed]

Hearing Ayron Alexander as Perimedes during Mutiny makes me so excited for the Wisdom Saga! We’ll finally be able to hear him as Antinous in “Little Wolf!”

[@qryptid]

Mutiny having the reprise of Luck Runs Out is just 😗👌 because of the direct parallel to "This is the Home of the Wind God"/"This is the Home of the Sun God", and in a way its both reversed and not. Eurolychus is still trying to keep his feet on the ground, but in a much more pained way, a realism grounded in his suffering, and Odysseus still puts his faith in the gods, though this time its Odysseus trying to convince Eurolychus to not do something. Jay is a master of reflecting earlier lines and playing them against themselves, it shows the way the characters change so much but still stay the same.

[@freddy092934]

Even if Eurylochs was going all out on Odysseus he still lose, Odysseus is considered the strongest fighter in Ithica.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Given he is the king and has good ancestory...

[@khoinguyen5004]

​@@SingingSealRiana also, disciple of Athena

[@MildlyPerturbed]

Love this analysis video! Both Odysseus and Eurylochus were flawed, as they were just men put in impossible situations. It’s honestly so good because you can see and argue for both sides, and I honestly think both were somewhat justified in the decisions they made. Eurylochus’ decisions seem more logical in hindsight based on the circumstances (I’d mutiny too if my Captain intentionally sacrificed six men) but you can also feel Odysseus’ desperation in trying to get home (and I think most people would choose to save themselves, rather than the crew). Odysseus made a selfish and desperate decision, just like Eurylochus did with the sacred cows. They’re both flawed, and I can relate to both of their decisions because in their situations, I likely would have made the same choices as well. Aww this musical is so good! Jorge did an amazing job adapting The Odyssey, and putting his own spin on it, especially since Zeus didn’t make Odysseus choose who lives or dies in The Odyssey. Zeus just killed those who ate the sacred cows, and coincidentally, Odysseus was the only one who hadn’t, so he was spared.

[@youknowlikealiar1300]

People have said that the last piano part in thunder bringer is supposed to be telemachus's melody from one of jay's snippets. Apart from giving a moment of respite from the emotions of thunder bringer, it's also a good choice since it helps introduce the change in perspective now that we part from Ody for a while and go into Lengendary

[@isis_mv_alves]

This is legitimately one of the best analyses of Epic I’ve seen! You hit the nail on the head in regard to so many things, especially character motivations. You made me completely rethink the role Suffering plays in the story (it’s such a good song!). The saga opens with Odysseus swiftly defeating the sirens, seemingly not even close to falling under their spell. But then the climax of Thunderbringer has Odysseus almost falling overboard while desperately reaching for this mirage of Penelope singing the siren’s song, like a sailor being sung to his doom. It’s genius.

[@tooawkwrd]

Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed! Can’t wait to revisit the older sagas

[@Megamanlanprime]

The main thing is the Epic version of these characters have more nuance and good cause for these things. The Odyssey version is where Euryolchus is just an idiot that starts a mutiny and sacrifices the scared cows because he’s more dumb. I really like how Epic has been flushing out some of the characters that were not as flushed out in the main story as they were not relevant to do so there. Although I’m curious on your reasoning for why he opened the bag despite Odysseus saying not to and that they were in view of Ithica.

[@tooawkwrd]

You’ll see when I breakdown ocean, it’ll all make sense my friend 👨‍🍳 let me cook

[@Megamanlanprime]

@@tooawkwrd can’t wait. Although I noticed something that I’m surprised no one else has seen or mentioned - when Scylla attacks the ship, you can actually hear cries and screams from the men she attacks. It’s somewhat overpowered by her singing but it’s actually there in the background to hear even if you’re just listening to the song.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Like every character has a little peace of truth but neither is all right

[@dragonfly._.doodles]

0:41 I’m sorry they’re what- EURYLOCHUS (I can’t spell his name) WAS LITERALLY JUST TRYING TO DO WHAT WAS BEST FOR THE CREW- idk why he opened the bag and maybe we will never know but he was in lack of a better term *just a man*

[@tooawkwrd]

Don’t worry I have the explanation for why he opened the bag. Stay tuned for ocean saga breakdown.

[@dragonfly._.doodles]

@@tooawkwrd oh for sure! I loved your mini breakdowns in the newest vid so I’m very excited to see it at length!

[@SingingSealRiana]

Thing is, he does, he very much does, does not chznge he doomed thwm twice over. The way to hell is paved in good intentions. Neither he nor odysseus really have a moral highground based on doing stupid stuff that gets people killed but at the same time, eurylochus is is a very relatable charscter deserging of sympathy at least as much as odysseus is...

[@draeonic]

After ten years of escaping death, his men start getting gruesomely killed in front of him. His famously clever captain makes a gambit that he only wins because Polyphemus couldn't get out "it's this guy who calls himself Nobody, weird I know," then chooses to take the sheep over the chance to give their friends a decent burial. After which they immediately run into a huge storm for several days. When they get a break he tries to express his concerns about the latest events, captain dismisses and talks around them before chewing him out for challenging him in public (okay, deserved). Captain leaves alone (why???), comes back clutching a bag that he says contains the storm which uhm, what? (Unlike Odysseus, Eurylochus is not used to divine intervention.) Captain tells them not to open the bag or let the rumor that it's treasure grow because Trust Him, then proceeds to show them complete distrust by refusing to sleep for days on end while he hangs on to his precious bag. At this point, exhausted and traumatized and starving, I wouldn't even care what actually is in the bag. Captain suddenly thinks I can't be trusted to help him guard it while he sleeps? Fine then, I'll sink to his expectations. That jerk.

[@draeonic]

​@@SingingSealRianaEurylochus made mistakes that ended up getting people killed. Odysseus *deliberately* got people killed. Not quite the same thing...

[@BlueMoonMCYT]

I WAS HOPING YOUD TALK ABOUT HOW EURYLOCHUS SAID “Ody”, I was so shocked that you didn’t bring it up last video!!

[@comickazii6629]

Another note: Every main character has a particular instrument to accompany them. Except Eurylocus. His instrument is the CREW, cuz he's literally their voice.

[@danielanimats8988]

A lot of the things that happen in this saga make me realize how serious he was when he said"Deep down I would trade the world to see my son and wife" in I'm just a man

[@SingingSealRiana]

Thing is eurylochus did a lot of wrong things, but so did odysseus and both are somewhat relatable and justified, like it makes sense why they did what they did... neither has the moral highground, both betrayed eachother and e boy is a very tragic character that deserves at least as much sympathy as odysseus does

[@Ella16360]

I loved this analysis! You are so right about all the Eurylochus stuff. Also I’m glad you are gonna be reacting to the livestream of the next saga. Watching the thunder saga live was an experience!

[@Sate12]

In Scylla, when Eurylochus admits what he did, the full weight that Eurylochus is the reason he didn't see his mother before she passed hits him

[@harvestlight692]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! You're analysis is great and covers everything I felt but couldn't name when I heard this saga. Imma be honest and say I was pretty neutral towards Eurylochus (not bashing him, I just found other characters stood out to me more) but this saga and seeing the misrepresentation of his character has made me a die hard fan 😂😂😂 Free my man he's innocent ur honor, the only crime he's committed is being in cast in a tragedy

[@directorredacted8408]

My thought from the lack of Ody's reaction at the crew attacking in thunder bringer is because of Zeus. Zeus is the king he told him to make a choice and so Ody did. Ody dying would show that Zeus failed on his word and Zeus would never allow that. Meaning Ody has nothing to fear because he knows he's not dying from them.

[@dragonfly._.doodles]

4:31 I can totally get your hype of Scylla it’s my personal favourite rn just because I love the grit it has, which is somewhat present here but to a lower scale, but your analysis of it may dethrone its position in the thunder saga hierarchy

[@dragonfly._.doodles]

Just came from your epic deep dive on your other channel and now I’m hooked

[@tooawkwrd]

Thank you friend 💜

[@wolfmoonjoy2022]

Oh, this is why I don’t pick sides with ANYONE from the odyssey but have sympathy for most of them because, no matter who you hope would survive the whole journey especially after a war, you know that people in general will be the Odysseus of that group or situation, they would risk literally everything, body or sanity, to see their loved ones… I’m just saying so… 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

[@joshuafrazier3904]

Man is really dedicated for sticking up for Eurylochus. Which like you can try that man I ain't gonna stop you.

[@DrakeDragonton]

Awkrotes is on point with his deductions

[@MisterSpew]

unironically one of the best breakdowns of the saga, great video :)

[@tooawkwrd]

appreciate that my friend, glad i did it justice

[@sovereignflux1664]

I love your takes on this. I do think that Odysseus didn't know Eurylochus opened the bag, since Scylla seemed to be expressing his feelings for him. He probably thought it was another crew member that did it (Maybe Eplenor or Perimedes) and just decided to let that die. He'd have considered Eurylochus as the person that always spoke his mind but could actually be trusted. And then he gets hit with it.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Yeah, zeus loves that shit, like technically he is there to be a stern judge and dish out justice but instead he shows of like a performer and plays cat and mouse delighted by his own barely disguised cruelty .... Look at me aint I awesome ... Dude is flexing at his victims and the worst is, luke hits the mark so well it works!!! He made that compassionless, narcissistic, hedonist serial molester my favorit!!! Like that deceptively gentle tone with the smuge undertone, damned, he is the worst and kinda the best while at it

[@hannahwillow109]

I just discovered your channels today and semi recently, Epic. I don't have many friends interested in these topics so listening to your videos feels like talking to a friend about shared interests. You have a nuanced and empathetic take on these complex characters and situations. I have aways loved mythology and The Odyssey in particular since I was a child. Now that I am an adult, it's finally cool to share and discuss these interests (not that it stopped me before!). Thank you, sir, you are awesome!

[@tooawkwrd]

Thank you for the lovely comment, glad to have you along for the ride.

[@janina7150]

4:55 I love this "oh no" :< And you have great voice I love how Epic is not about journey, about Odysseus as monster, but what men can do to survive. What everyone can do to survive. Monsters just want to survive. Sirens, Scylla, they killing to survive. And Odysseus

[@tooawkwrd]

Thanks 😌

[@DrakeDragonton]

Would you say that during thunderbringer, Odysseus, seeing the vision of Penelope, is succumbing to Vicarious Romance? Specifically psycho romance?

[@tooawkwrd]

Haha you’re a real one for that. I’d definitely say psycho romantic. That man will do anything for that girl.

[@DrakeDragonton]

@@tooawkwrd F’real. Sacrifice 600 men

[@jeng021]

Great analysis, the beard is sending me tho 😂 especially when you’re singing along

[@a.songb1rd]

something abt the whole scylla situation is that it’s basically a huge trolley problem. if they went to charybdis, the whole crew alongside eury & ody would have been killed, so scylla was by far the better option.

[@diddykitty746]

41:38 This is the moment where he is no longer- you.

[@Monkicos]

What I find interesting with eurylochus' motif is his lack there of. He doesn't have his own instrument but is open to try different kinds, suggesting he's open to change, but he's always got the voices of the crew with him, hinting at his loyalty to them. I've seen some people say he killed the cow because he wanted to take back control, that he knew they were doomed but he wanted to be in control of how he died. However I think it's more connected to his theme of being lost that Jorge talks about when mentioning his lack of instrument. Eurylochus needs a captain to lead him because he's lost without one, but in mutiny he lost confidence in the one he had, odysseus, both in him as a person and a leader, however no one else was there to fill the role of captain, so he tried to do it himself. But he's not a captain, he never has been and is more lost than ever trying to be one for the first time. He knows his crew is tired, as is himslef, so he docks at the first island he finds, and the crew is hungry, so is he, so he tries to get them good. Now about him being a hypocrite for being upset with the sacrifice of six men when he seemed completely fine with leaving the pig transformed men at circe's, that's tied to his instrument hopping. He's already figured out the whole 'ruthlessness is mercy' ideology, which odysseus has yet to catch up to, however as shown with his instrument hopping, he's still open to change. And so, when odysseus tells him all lives matter, eurylochus follows that as the new norm, his loyalty to his captain goes before his own ideology. Which is why he reacted negatively to the scylla sacrifice, because he'd embraced change but odysseus' actions went agaisnt his (eurylochus) loyalty theme. Now lost, he's going to make mistakes

[@diredm3889]

Quote from Thor in Zeus vs Thor ERB that fits so well with this. "Who would ever worship someone as abusive as Zeus is? You're ruthless to humans, your crew is like the clash of the douches Ruling over the Greeks, a people weak and frightened I'd spit in your face but you'd probably like it"

[@Rodknee_Taco]

30:51 I'M JUST A MAN 🗣️🗣️🗣️ Also... 30:59 Perfectly encapsulates the "just a man" motif.

[@ParsureArts]

Wow this is a great analysis!! I really love how you’re connecting the cyclops’ behavior to Odysseus’ :D

[@tooawkwrd]

Thank you!

[@SeptemusHeap]

This was a great video. It helped see more of what was really going on that I didn't get listening on my own.

[@totallynotanauthor]

I clicked so fast bc of the thumbnail-

[@tooawkwrd]

Lol

[@poisecritikal]

I want the thunder saga but its just awkrotes doing a one man show. He is scylla. He is the sirens. He is eurylochus. He is the crew. He is odysseus. He is zeus. HE IS THEM ALL

[@suspiciouswolf933]

This was a fantastic breakdown And now I’m subbed So I will be holding my singular one sub over you to do the rest of the saga breakdowns ❤

[@tooawkwrd]

lol ok, welcome aboard

[@suspiciouswolf933]

@@tooawkwrd I’m not about to unsub by the way The rest of what you do is pretty entertaining too so I’m in it for a while

[@dragonblast417]

It's hilarious the community unanimously agree that Eurylochus has a big sword 🗡️ cuz of the TikTok with Jorge and Armando

[@anarchyknight6990]

But imagine if whenever we do see Penelope she says," But I cant take the suffering from you!" I just know that motif is gonna hurt me.

[@tooawkwrd]

I’ll literally die on camera

[@michellewest4796]

The thing that gets me is in the same song where Eurylochus says "if you want all the power, you must carry all the blame" and steals the crew from Odysseus, the moment he kills the cow he returns to second in command and they all want him to be their captain again. They want him to save them at the cost of his own life when they tore power away from him and screwed up INSTANTLY!

[@tooawkwrd]

Eurylochus didn't want the power, that's why they didn't kill Odysseus. It was never about power, they just wanted their captain to have their best interests in mind like he used to.

[@MildlyPerturbed]

@@tooawkwrdexactly! Eurylochus only tried to forcefully take the power because at that point, Odysseus didn’t have the crew’s best intentions in mind. You can’t really expect to blindly follow after a man who is clearly trying to jump over the edge, or one who’s willing to sacrifice you at the drop of a dime so he can get home.

[@tooawkwrd]

@@MildlyPerturbed well said

[@MildlyPerturbed]

@@tooawkwrdThank you! 😁

[@DrakeDragonton]

I just listened to a great cover of the Siren’s half of Suffering by “Amelia Bond” and I think if you guys did a Suffering cover collab with you as Odysseus, that would be awesome! Just a suggestion

[@arim004ali9]

I truly enjoyed this breakdown. You had so many great insights that I’ve never thought of before (such as you saying how just a man plays whenever someone is pushed to their limits) and your analysis of the characters demonstrates how you understand how complex their morals can be. Please do more for the next saga if you’ll like, I’ll definitely be waiting for it. :>

[@tooawkwrd]

Thank you, and yes i plan to go back and do the old sagas and future sagas as well

[@DivineQueenOfGreen]

Bro, I love your description of the sirens thoughts and what not😂😂😂😂

[@tooawkwrd]

Thank you 🙏

[@cryingtomatohead8626]

15:25 I don't think that was the case. I think that he genuinely didn't know that Eurylochus had anything to do with opening the bag and the music kinda leans into why I think that. There's was a thud after Eur confessed. I think that moment was the moment that Ody realized that despite being the captain of his crew, he was alone. He could not trust any of them to truly be by his side with his decision making even his own brother (in law). I think it solidified his decision to light the torches and make sure that Eurylochus had one. He couldn't trust anyone and he needed to just do whatever was necessary to get himself home, no matter the cost.

[@tooawkwrd]

Can’t really argue against your interpretation, but I think Odysseus was smart enough to put two and two together considering the person who opened the bag was on their ship. Which narrowed it down by a lot, also him not immediately confronting the crew about who did it. With that knowledge and knowing that Eurylochus was the only one doubting his leadership, I think it’s obvious Odysseus knew.

[@Japanese_EmperorHirohito]

You sound exactly like the zeus va when you did that voice nice

[@SingingSealRiana]

That "oh no" is my favorit part of the song and perhaps even the musical... It is so beautifuly disingenuous and says everything

[@lbear4292]

The Scylla song is probably my new favourite song

[@dadofwarfan300]

I feel like Eurylochus keeps missing the fact that the people that died after the Cyclops wouldn’t have died and Ody wouldn’t be like how he is now if he had listened to him and not opened the bag.

[@draeonic]

Or if Odysseus hadn't doxxed himself to Polyphemus. Besides, he attempted to confess immediately after, then did it again despite being shut down the first time. Just because he doesn't get a full song about how bad he feels doesn't mean he's not aware. Eurylochus had plenty of reasons to open that bag, from "the storm? really? in a bag?" to the way Odysseus demanded his devotion while openly distrusting him. In hindsight it turned out to be a bad move but I can't blame the man for wanting to see for himself, in the circumstances.

[@dadofwarfan300]

@@draeonic I would have to say I would agree with all your points, and I had said nothing about him needing a song about how sorry he was I think that would ruin his character, and you are absolutely right about not blaming Eurylochus, but the point of what I had said in my comment was that he kind of ignored that it wasn't just Odysseus' fault but also his. They both are the reason all of them died, but it's understandable why he did ignore that because he was tired and grief striken by Odyessyus' betrayal

[@draeonic]

@@dadofwarfan300 I think his own responsibility in what happened is off topic there. the middle of a swordfight isn't the best time for "I know I messed up too"

[@dadofwarfan300]

@@draeonic I agree

[@DivineQueenOfGreen]

I didn’t realize this boy had a whole ass notepad unti different beast played😂😂😂😂😂

[@claudiuskeat8336]

If you think about it, making Zeus hot makes all the sense. Otherwise, how on earth did he manage to spawn too many Demigods?

[@SingingSealRiana]

This, neither of them is the bad guy!!! They are all just human in the worst type of situations and each error makes the other worse!!! But that aplies to odysseus too!!! Each fuck up of odysseus jades eurylochus but the same goes for the other way around, no matter the intention, both doomed the crew, both hurt eachother and escslate eachother and neither is in the right!

[@SingingSealRiana]

The thing is eurylochus would have way more of a point in being mad with odysseus for sacrificing 6 men, if he wpuld jot turn around to doom them all knowingly, in the same song by doing the exact same thing odysseus did, to satisfy his own craving... He knew killing the cattle would spell doom, its basically police assisted suicide he does there, becuae he is so tired and done and cant handle it anymore, more then plain hungry Only to turn around and still being kinda hurt that odysseus who he just backstabbed does not take the fall for him. As much as i feel for him, he is just as much of a hypocrite sacrificing the crew to his whims as odysseus!!! The point of the crew going put on their own therms is evicirated by how they very much do not accept their fate but try to sacrifice odysseus so they get away The moment danger arises they still expect him to get them out, even though they do not want him to have any power anymore, they still expect him to take responsability, blame and be the fallguy for them and he tries to safe them!

[@WarriorOfTheMind]

This helped me finish again

[@Zarsla]

The piano at the end of Thunderbringer is playing the part at the end of My Goodbye, the new one any way.

[@aliaab123]

I really enjoyed this analysis.

[@tooawkwrd]

Thank you, glad you liked it

[@silvertongue231]

Eurylucus is def my favorite character in epic idk why maybe because he always had more common sense than Odysseus and Polites

[@Zuzu1684]

I’m just gonna say me and my sister to this day can’t stand some of their actions. Like you’re telling me Odysseus was dumb enough to tell a cyclops his name and address, disobey a god, Eurylochus was stupid enough to hear his best friend say don’t open and did it regardless and then almost started a rebellion then later on actually made a mutiny and got him and the rest of the crew killed for something 4 times he coulda stopped 🥹 I love their characters and I love that it shows realism in being flawed by your emotions but BROO

[@m0ejo324]

First of all Odysseus is the better fighter than Eurylochus, but in Odysseus defense the last time he trust the crew with something, the fucking bag, they didn't listen and let their greed overcome so how is he to trust they would make rational decisions when it comes to Scylla. Plus he said to lit 6 torches while Eurylochus already had one lit. That means he didn't want Eurylochus to die and he didn't pick which ones. At the end of Mutiny Odysseus still trying to stop them and save his crew. He cared for them. Also Odysseus did warned them not to kill the cow and why should he take the punishment when it was the crew who disrespect the god.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Yeah scylla, in a better world she would have been instant my favorit as a character and interpret.... But in this one I apparently have brain damage so she comes second place to the utter creep and pompous ahole that is zeus, so perfectly charming and terribly predatory portrayed by luke holt.... Damn it, o hate zeus but luke managed to nail everything he is so perfectly that I am utterly in love with how terrible he is 😅 Like in the stories, you are told he is charming bit it does not translate so you are just grossed out, but here, the wroting and interpretation are plain devined and one gets absolutely how people fall for him against everything

[@Brits_W0rld]

Yes! Its out!

[@SingingSealRiana]

I love different beast, cause it highlights how much of a damned hypocrite odysseus is and how his problem is, that he plain is not a good man and how most of his peoblems arise of him being unable to commit to either kindness or ruthlessness.... His goodness is fake. Killing the sirens makes sense, its kill or be killed, but the thing is he is compleatly and needlessly cruel to comand them mutalated and suffer a slow death for having tried to feed themselfs... Like wtf odysseus?! Both his mercy and his decisivness cause unneeded harm. Poseidon very very much had a point when calling him out!!! Also i adore the choir

[@omarsalem1219]

Epic

[@val_1991]

He might be the hypocrite, but I think everyone would do the same and be selfish if put in the same shoes. Nobody wants to die. Either is your family whats your goal, or your crew. Nobody wants to die

[@dragonfly._.doodles]

2:32 (There’s gonna be a lot of this so get ready to be flooded with comments lmao this is how I analyze things) OOOOH that’s such a fascinating take! I also noticed how their music sounds so artificial because everything about them is artificial. Also I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Penelope’s theme played over it I just haven’t analyzed it enough to know. But that feels like a very Jay move. BRB I’m doing this too edit: HOLY SHIT I THINK IT IS- I have no doubt that’s what your gonna talk about so forgive me if this is redundant this stuff just really gets the theorist brain going and I am one to make my conclusions far after everyone else has already done so and they’re like “yeah obviously” but it’s just fun lol

[@abluvion7661]

i wouldnt call odysseus a hypocrite, like his original goal was to make it home with all of his crew still alive, but his goals changed in the underworld saga to just making it home no matter the cost. so i dont think hes a hypocrite, just a monster lol

[@tooawkwrd]

[ODYSSEUS] "There's no length I wouldn't go if it was you I had to save" "I can only hope you'd do the same"

[@abluvion7661]

@@tooawkwrd that was before the underworld saga though 😔

[@tooawkwrd]

@@abluvion7661 words still came out his mouth, i don't make the rules

[@abluvion7661]

@@tooawkwrd he said them before he went through his main character change/development, thats not hypocrisy thats him becoming ruthless

[@tooawkwrd]

@@abluvion7661 if your actions contradict your words that by definition makes you a hypocrite, doesn't really matter the reasoning behind it

[@thesaltybeard1793]

26:06 no such thing as a non lethal stab in the torso lmao. You assume that its gonna be lethal.

[@Saphyu]

can I karaoke with u? LOL

[@tooawkwrd]

lol, how would we even set that up? I’ve never tried karaoke but I’m sure I’d crush it

[@heartnerd6768]

First of all, I just want to say this is absolutely no hate to you or your opinions but this is why I think Eurylochus is in the wrong and why I hate him lol. I went into Epic blind by the way, I had never read the odyssey or anything that referenced the odyssey. Nowwww time for my speech about why I hate Eurylochus. So I was one of the people who called that he opened the wind bag (freaking idiot). But I just had a lot of sus about him ever since luck runs out. He wanted to prove Odysseus wrong since that day so he can say “oh I was right about not trusting gods” but then he opened the wind bag and killed off 552 people (the extra one being Odysseus’s mom as you know someone told you about the drowning thing when she saw her son go back out to sea cause they were close enough for her to see his ships) Anyways, yes of course Odysseus got in trouble with the cyclops and needed to be talked to by Poseidon but those deaths because of the wind bag opening were not really Odysseus’s fault. He did everything in his power to keep it closed! He stayed awake for nine days! Now in puppeteer is when I got really sus because of how a, he had a secret and he had to tell ody, but also b, he didn’t want to go back and save his crew from Circe. And if Eurylochus’s main objective throughout this whole story is to look out for the crew then he wasn’t doing that right now! He knew Ody could find a way (probably) to free their men but he didn’t even want to try! That would have been even more “deaths” because of Eurylochus! Then when it got to No longer you, I knew it was probably him from all the subtle hints that the song was throwing especially “portrayals of betrayals and a brother’s final stand” I mean the portrayals of betrayal part is obviously him opening the windbag but the brother’s final stand I was thinking was coming in act two. (This was all before act two came out by the way) but then I remembered something and I also started watching reactions to epic which the comments helped me know that even though ody says that Eurylochus was “like a brother”, Eurylochus was actually Ody’s brother in law because he was married to Ody’s sister. So I figured that something like luck runs out was going to happen in act two!! So now for when I listened to act two (oh and by the way I am going in this musical completely blind cause I hadn’t read the odyssey or anything to do with Odysseus growing up), I got so excited when I called that Eurylochus opened the wind bag! I sat there stunned for a few minutes because I was like “oh my gosh I caught something!! AHHH” I was sending voice memos to my epic friends about it! Cause when I’m going into musicals blindly, I’m usually dumb as heck and don’t figure out anything (like I was completely confused all of suffering and didn’t think about sirens at All). So after the shock wore off, I listened to the rest of Scylla and then the other two songs. Now, ody punishing Eurylochus to pick which crew members died to scylla is crazy petty but ody knew that he had to get home and he knew that this would hurt Eurylochus the most because he is the person in the crew “who looked out for the crew and was the voice of the crew” so of course he would be affected deeply by picking six men to die. But here’s the thing, I don’t blame ody for doing that. He used his smarts and his wits to get out of the scylla situation. But he also used those same things to hurt Eurylochus. Whether by killing him or making him sacrifice six of his friends. Another reason why I don’t blame ody is because from day one of this musical, he wanted to go see his wife and his kid! He loved them so much that he wants to see them again! That’s why he’s doing all of this, to get back home. Literally in horse and the infant you get his wants and desires “Penelope and Telemachus.” He has been fighting tooth and nail to get back home to them for 25 songs! Yes the sacrificing six men is a little harsh but it got him one step closer to home. Also ody’s line rings true that he sung to his brother “you know you’d do the same” because that is what he did! In Circe he was willing to give up some of his crew to get home! And then in mutiny Eurylochus pulls the dumbest move known to man! He cuts the sun god’s cattle! Like what?! After his whole thing in luck runs out about Aeolus! Does he not think Helios would be the same?!! Oh my gosh he makes me so mad! AND THEN in thunder bringer he’s all like “but we will die” well no 💩 Sherlock! “Not only did you try and stage a mutiny against me and stab me but you killed the sun god’s cattle when I explicitly told you not to, maybe like the freaking wind bag that I told you not to open, so now you got to pay for your consequences! I’m going home to my wife and my kid!” (If I was ody) And that’s another thing!! He tries to take over and then when zues comes down he’s like “captain 🥺” like trying to pin that 💩 on Odysseus or try to give him the power back so he “can take all the blame” as Eurylochus said in mutiny! Ody’s crew literally backstabs him and then thinks he is going to choose them over himself! I don’t think he was selfish or wrong for any of this at all!

[@tooawkwrd]

There’s a lot here to respond to so I only ask to stay tuned for when I cover the previous sagas. I have a counter argument for nearly everything you said here some of which is already in this video.

[@SingingSealRiana]

.... Like dude, they mutenied, as eurolychus said if ylu have the fommand ylu take the blame, he took command from odysseus, he backstabbed him, he has no buisness to demand from odysseus to take the blame for when he himself doomed the crew! That is hypocritical as f*ck. Take command, f up, then take responsibility for it as you demanded

[@BiTreeFrog]

I love these videos on the thunder saga but i think its kind of jarring how you skip around, so where is the stream so i can watch it all in order

[@tooawkwrd]

Pre recorded, this wasn’t streamed

[@BiTreeFrog]

@@tooawkwrd welllllllll shit

[@tooawkwrd]

@@BiTreeFrog i may play around with the idea of streaming these in the future, i'm not sure but later this year if that doesn't happen i promise there will be a way to view uncut versions of these kinds of videos. still figuring stuff out.

[@SingingSealRiana]

The thing os, the longet they are on sea, the more of them will die and all of them want to home not jusy odysseus. Ita either sacrifice 6 men to scylla or all will die to her then, or poseidon later by avoiding her. Odysseus does try to keep as many alife as he can and chose the lesser evil in a way eurylocheus plain does not get. Its funny how all his own warnings and beseechi gs to odysseus that he needs to be more ruthless and pragmatic come back to hit him in the face when odysseus starts listening to him. Thing is odysseus could not do anything of the things needed if he was not so laser focused on getting back to his family, he would not have killed the babe, tried to spare the sirens etc... At this point he is so deep into the mess he needs to stay focused and sacrifice everything to get bacl to his family or be would crumble under the guilt, he would have long given up and be dead if he did not hold on to that. He f*ing killed a babe, the only way to justify it is make it worth it is by returning home. Odysseus would prefere everyone to survive, but if thats impossible he is in to deep to give up.

[@JojoHobo]

ngl imma say only eurylochus is the hypocrite since he didnt have a change of character. since ody had a change of character then his set of beliefs changed as well. so ody isnt a hypocrite because he does indeed continue practicing what he is preaching meanwhile eury had contradicting values. (sacrifice to survive circe = good; sacrifice to survive scylla = bad) i dont wanna be ignorant so maybe he had a change of character too seeing his dead comrades in the underworld and lastly, eury gave up on ody after just 1 tragedy (the cyclops) by not trusting him and opening the bag which landed them quite literally on poseidon's palm THEREFORE both of the mass genocides made by the gods were caused by him (all events are strictly epic the musical and not other depictions of the odyssey because im too broke to buy a copy)

[@tooawkwrd]

I’m excited to see people’s thoughts when I break down ocean and Circe saga I think Eurylochus’ choices there are valid considering both situations. I can’t wait to talk about it soon

[@imadegenerate9867]

And even if he did open the bag, if odysessu just killed polyphemus. they wouldn't have died

[@JojoHobo]

i was talking about the hypocrisy stuff not the men dying and yes we know it all stems from ody not killing the cyclops, thats a fact. he remained true to himself at the time and chose not to be ruthless. Making him not a hypocrite just a disappointment in the eyes of athena and ares.

[@JojoHobo]

@@tooawkwrd i too think eurylochus was valid there, his switch up was just craaaazzyy what if he actually heard polites singing in Underworld and lost his ruthlessness from Full Speed Ahead pure speculation

[@m1sh474]

18:40 really? his men? his buddies? the same ones he put constantly at risk? ok

[@tooawkwrd]

who are you referring to exactly?

[@m1sh474]

@@tooawkwrd Eury lmao

[@val_1991]

He might be the hypocrite, but I think everyone would do the same and be selfish if put in the same shoes. Nobody wants to die. Either is your family whats your goal, or your crew. Nobody wants to die

[@val_1991]

This saga is extremely painful. It really is.