Breaking the Meta - Medieval 2 Total War (1v1 Online Battle

[@crusadernikolai1996]

I would like to propose that we no longer call it a noob square...

[@garygreen5345]

I second that

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Nickolie-psn Newell lol

[@samb7805]

+Nickolie-psn Newell a Pike box !

[@The_DGO]

+Nikolai it should be called a power square and a noob square at different times. When it works, its a power square. When it doesn't, its a noob square.

[@spookythiccy4494]

+Nikolai I also agree calling it a noob square because you dont know how to beat it doesn't make it any less effective.

[@enchantedtramp]

What have we learned here? Even if you have the best build, you should always bring archers. You don't know whether or not your opponent will bring horse archers. Or a pike box.

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Evan1214 haahaha true

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

+Evan1214 Yes, and peasant crossbowmen are absurdly cost effective. Even otherwise I remember once in a byzantine campaign when a large hungarian force showed up with lots of elite horse archers. I immediately hired 600 balkan archers and they did the job. They managed to break the vastly superior hungarian nobles. It is also a good idea to always bring some spears and light cavalry. Is it obvious that I prefer a combined arms approach? :P

[@FF-ds9xw]

+ Evan1214 even altillery

[@themindset-yj3hp]

@@rubenvalente9474this isn’t a noob box

[@rubenvalente9474]

@@themindset-yj3hp I've used this tactic before :D

[@CaptainInvisible1]

My favourite sentence in history "breaking the Meta". After watching this again, I have to say Vlad lost his focus as soon as he saw the pikebox. There were opportunities to break through, holes that could be exploited, but he did not focus in these areas and became too spread out. He had cav superiority and yet could not stop the French cavalry doing hammer and anvil strikes on his men. Cav superiority is a dead end, the light is pikemen.

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Captain Invisible hahah DONT GO INTO THE LIGHT

[@CaptainInvisible1]

Pixelated Apollo Especially with cavalry.

[@FluffyBuzzard2TheMax]

Put your pike up on your shoulder by the rising of the moon!

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

+Captain Invisible Worth having in the back of your mind. Every formation has its weaknesses, it is only a question on finding where it is and how to attack it.

[@andresbrodie5086]

i dont mean to be so offtopic but does anybody know of a trick to log back into an instagram account?? I was dumb forgot the password. I love any tricks you can offer me!

[@mukerremtufekcioglu6002]

"They could not handle this noob square" Pixelated Apollo 2015

[@Softload3r]

Swissman playing like a real swiss medieval pikemen lel

[@evanneal4936]

I think I can beat that French players box formation... he left enough holes in the line to make an effective heavy cav flanking move possible, especially if you charge the heavy cav at an angle in wedge formation in a way that contacts multiple units at once from the side. Wedge formation is also more effective against pikes because since its lead by a single knight at the front, if you charge right they'll go in between the pikes of 2 pikemen and break through the formation instantly...

[@grzybkizcipki5287]

I think we can call it "troll square" :^)

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Gods, that hole in the formation... That is why you keep some heavy cavalry in reserve. If he had charge into that then the whole formation would just break apart. O.o

[@Dolfy]

Oh nice, Pixelated Apollo is commentating tournament matches.

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Dolfy Hopefully I can do more

[@henreyeraser3402]

+Pixelated Apollo For team battles if you can you should all deploy on a far flank and then charge the 1st opponent so it's 3 v1 and maybe 1 enemy will come to the rescue but it wont be all 3 at the same time, of course this only work 3v3 or 4v4 as 2v2 then it really doesnt matter, also you could deploy a few units hidden to hit the last player's general

[@rickywheeler6054]

Congratulations Swissman 15 !!! You are definately a great hero. That was a "Heroic Victory" using tw2 slang. Awesome defensive set up.

[@rickywheeler6054]

SM 15 Great General is what I meant to say.

[@rickywheeler6054]

I usually fight like the french set up here although I do not play vs other players. Enjoyed tw2 for like 10+ years now and hope to compete vs humans. Just thought everyone had moved on already. I have thousands of hrs of campaigns and custom battles logged vs AI. Maybe someday you will fight me. I use the English retinue longbows to make a defensive wooden spike perimeter wall, rather than pikes. But the rest is similar to this guy. I have followed Apollo for years and am a fan. 😀

[@evanneal4936]

Not to mention if you focus your forces on just one side (say the front) and defeat it quickly enough, you are now attacking the rest of his army from the rear especially since he'd have not enough time to turn around the units and even if he does, boom, box tactic beaten because now you can still use your cav supremacy to flank around the back as soon as they turn around to face your infantry. The Russian player hesitated too much, lost his focus, gave up immediately, or wasn't really that great of a player, no offense intended...

[@patrickferrier2049]

I'm sitting here happily with a mug of hot chocolate watching Pixelated Apollo!

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Patrick Ferrier :D sounds awesome

[@zr4086]

wow, the formation of the France. it reminds me about the epic battle of Red Cliff, when Cao Cao try to attack the Southern Wu by cavalry. nice video Mr Apollo

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Z Yazid thanks man :D

[@darthvader569]

Haha, just had to laugh when I saw a noon square. That is an easy tactic for me to beat cause I love a good explosion and starting stuff on fire, or it could be that i always play as the Holy Roman Empire.

[@paladinbob1236]

the thing about this battle is that pikemen worst foe is the missle troop.A reasonable missle contiguent could really destroy a pike-noob box but vlad has thrown all-in to get that heavy ultimate rush .Risky play in a tourlement battle and kudos to swissman for experimenting and with vlads decision to go for heavy rush ..rather decisive ..nice to see swissman using his namesakes unit :D

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+paladinbob 123 :D

[@jackrennie7552]

my nerd juices started to flow when I saw this and I loved it

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Jack Rennie :DD

[@EmperorAlan]

LoL when i saw the noob box i thought he will lose, after seeing vlad brinign rush army it was gg already xD nice tactics swissman :D

[@makkethefinn7654]

+Emperor Alan ` I LOVE YOU ALAN (fangirling)!!!!!!! I WANT TO HUG YOU AND KISS YOU! BEST TOTAL WAR PLAYER EVER!

[@lostinnepal7897]

+Sir Makke Next to alex the rambler ;)

[@EmperorAlan]

xD

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Emperor Alan ` yeah it was fun to watch

[@milanzaric112]

+Emperor Alan ` jel to na ovom videu ima opcija za 5k video?

[@evanneal4936]

The reason the Russian player lost was because he didn't exploit the gaps in the line with his heavy cav correctly, i saw plenty of opportunities to flank 2 units at once from the side which would also force the pikes into sword melee formation and drop the pikes, also, no ranged troops was a TERRIBLE idea, you NEVER bring no ranged/ skirmish units under any circumstances in my opinion especially if your playing for the championship like this...if the Russian player brought skirmish/ ranged troops he could have softened up the French units enough to render them ineffective without even directly engaging his own army and could have completely eliminated their pikes, which are weak to archers, then engage the infantry with fully undamaged heavy cav, crush them and use the infantry to kill the French archers... i would have chosen a better faction as well, with better archers than what france can bring to ensure my "softened up" tactic actually was doable... it amazes me sometimes just how good at this game(or rather actual military tactics) i actually am... I can very likely beat players who are supposedly some of the best in the world... because im a certified military historian on the autism spectrum, who's also a genius, especially at military tactics... i use real-life tactics when i play, and usually, IF i lose, it's only because of some weird, faulty game mechanic being exploited (like the "2 handed glitch" for example) that wouldn't have any effect on a real-life battle...or its because the other players cheat, exploit, or break the agreed upon battle rules because they're always afraid to play against me fair and square...(for example, we'll agree no artillery, and then they bring artillery anyway, and i don't [i do have a habit though of forgetting to check and approve the other players armies first so thats my bad i guess].)

[@RemusKingOfRome]

I was getting really bored of Rush builds - Thank GOD for Swissman

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+RemusKingOfRome5 :D

[@barrylebaptiste2990]

Hi Apollo! i would like to make a commentary because i'm wondering if you know Batbaileys, a famous general of total war on youtube. He presents this tactic in his first videos. He speaks french like me, but total war is total war right? you can watch him anyway. Thanks for your videos which are very good and very clear, so clear that even a frenchspeaking person like me understands them. Best of luck !

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Barry Le Baptiste thanks man :D

[@jeremy9416]

Always bring some archers or crossbowman, he could kill the first line of pike then charge with infantry

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

I absolutely adore break the meta videos. I utterly despise metagaming and overrelying on game mechanics and which unit that has the most inflated stats instead of actual tactics. Anyone else that is bored out of their mind of Urban Cohorts? A completely ahistorical unit that somehow is more hardcore than the praetorians?

[@FueledByAdobo03]

No more noob box!!!!!!!! call it a Defensive Formation!!!! (or for short a DF)

[@rickywheeler6054]

Apollo is a great player also. Ive watched many of your videos. But you are just having a great time win or lose.

[@rickywheeler6054]

Thanks Apollo for another great video. I liked the 3rd person stuff too. lol

[@petrovepryk3786]

It feels, like a Marine+Tank in SCII. Tanks firing, Marines protecting.

[@user-fs5fc1vv7y]

I use similar tactics with byz but instead of c bows i use javs to take out heavy armor and then engage quickly in melee. Cool vid

[@silentkiller2mm]

When a expierenced player with a rush army doesn't rush instantly....you know you've done something right :P

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+silentkiller2mm haha yeah

[@smeagol9693]

Thing is with m2tw pitches, if you force someone to march up against you cause of your defensive position (noob square :p) and your opponent has an attacking (cav based) army, you are kinda changing the field battle into a siege, which is kinda unfair with equal funds... idk.. I've played this game too much.......

[@smeagol9693]

This right here is thé thing

[@lostinnepal7897]

Yeah, wird but awesome battle. Continue the good work Apollo :D

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+lostin nepal thanks man :D

[@danktrouble2727]

Vlad could have focused all his infantry on one or two points, the least he needed to do was to rout just one unit of pikes, breaking the noob square up enough to let his cavalry get at the archers inside

[@kristijanpoklecki6098]

I simply don't understand how can someone play with Russia without any mounted archers. Dvor or Cossacks are penicillin for boxes.

[@shan9usfc]

He's not exploiting those gaps...

[@saladbruh2625]

this is why you should always have a well balanced army

[@Omegasutoraiki]

I don't really know if you can have a REAL META in an rts based around historical battles because there is always gonna be a player who decides to pull a napoleon and change how everyone else thinks about battles.

[@micahpemble4286]

now that was amazing

[@brandonabram7954]

Gr8 vid, like the 1v1s cuz I always finish them🤣

[@rainthegenericname_7131]

Interesting match-up... How historical huehuehuehuehue.

[@MorojCraftPLAYS]

30k, congrats Pixey

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+MorojCraftPLAYS Thanks man :D

[@Leif918]

There were plenty of holes in the square, I think Vlad got a little nervous and missed a lot of opportunities. If you see this you should focus your infantry in a corner because is the weakest spot and after making a hole you poor your troops inside and GG.

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Leif Henriksen yeah, there was some gaps for sure, that he missed

[@orionofodyssey7271]

Such an awesome battle! :D

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Gimli son of Gloin glad you enjoyed it :D

[@justaladybug9716]

HES USING YHE NOIOOOOOOOOOB SQUARE

[@semregob3363]

to break the chain you must concentrate on one point and break it and all other parts will come loose. VLAD here did the exact opposite, he charged along all the circle, a very noob move.

[@sjtimmer7]

Does this game have things like flanking bonus or morale?

[@ralado4495]

Yes

[@Primetime397]

The Russian player ignored all the gaps, he could have gone through them with his cav using a Wedge. He should also have concentrated all his infantry against a single facing of the French formation.

[@aditya8617]

lol, exactly what I thought too. Maybe this strategy would still lose, but that was the best chance with this Russian setup. I don't get why one would pick Dismounted Boyar Sons & Druzhina over Dismounted Dvor.

[@harinaicker4267]

finally a use for noob squares

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Hari Naicker :P

[@tyrsgothi8991]

you should try a pike and shot type army

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

+Alexander Hernandez agreed, it can work surprisingly well. And darn it feels nice to control the forces when they move in proper battalions.

[@AwesomeLookingGamer]

i think a very good counter would just be spamm archers and cav to get into the gaps

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Dylan van Bezooijen yeah of course, its easy to counter pike boxes. But the point I was trying to make is that in competitive players can be very 1 dimensional. and a surprise noob box can beat a rush army

[@AwesomeLookingGamer]

ah okay, thank for your reply :)

[@sarmatiancougar7556]

The most epic battle ever.

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Bademus Cat glad you enjoyed it :D

[@sarmatiancougar7556]

+Pixelated Apollo sorry, man, why do you always ignore my comments about game mechanics. For example, I described the hungarian foot chivalric knights are not worse than the standard ones in melee.

[@sarmatiancougar7556]

+Pixelated Apollo *why the hungarian...

[@windwaik3r689]

+Bademus Cat He's a busy dude, gotta pick and choose

[@Chicagoben]

Apollo I've already seen this battle plz >.>. Have you seen the Pike Pav strat for anti rushes ?

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Ben Watson no i havent

[@peterlustig329]

Wow. He just doesn't shut up ever.

[@emperorofthegreatunknown4394]

Watch the 2nd battle of Week 2 game of Nepal's Chosen vs Vikingr there is breaking the meta.

[@lostinnepal7897]

+Emperor of the Great Unknown I didn't send the battles against Vikingr, they weren't very close. Both clear victories for us. I sent both of the battles against the Dwarves of The Mighty Hammer though...

[@emperorofthegreatunknown4394]

+lostin nepal yes there wasn't much breaking the meta tactics in wk3 battles (except maybe the first battle). Also Dwarves are in every other league video.

[@ironwolfnl7365]

5.28 "there is a hole in the opening here"

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+jesperL lol derp

[@lineasevenadam5009]

If he had a unit of catapult the battle would be gg :)

[@rainthegenericname_7131]

It's a pity Vlad didn't charge his Cav info that gap. I can't tell you guys how many times I've won against pike noob boxes in a Rome Total War by charging my Cav into the empty gap, killing the archers and flanking the enemy troops.

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+pink guy (RainTheRobloxian) yeah for sure

[@rainthegenericname_7131]

Pixelated Apollo huehue

[@jackalberry3633]

This is pretty much what i asked for in the last vid Only cav and pike men

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+rita shahoud yeah it was awesome

[@alexccccc7854]

And that's why I get pikes, people! Pikes! Pikes! Pikes!

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+AlexIsAnAI Gaming PIKES

[@alexccccc7854]

Pixelated Apollo PIKES

[@HaHawk]

This battle was over before it even started.

[@lostinnepal7897]

14th August, 1385. The spanish forces invade Portugal. Portugal is ready to defend, with the help of the English allies. The spanish forces outnumber the portuguese and the english in 4 to 1. Portugal is commanded by a great general, Nuno Álvares Pereira. He decides to use a formation that he called "Square formation". Pikemen on the front of each side of the square supported with some heavy infantry, a little amount of cavalry out of the square, to try to get some charge, with LOTS of crossbows in center of the square. The portuguese are able to beat Spain that day. Is there where Swissman got this idea?

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+lostin nepal awesome!

[@ricardodeleon3041]

French : men lost 219 Russia :men killed 159 WTF.

[@ricardodeleon3041]

Hugh Jenas ah wll that was a lot of friendly fire

[@NightH4wkG4ming]

+Ricardo De Leon yh that would more than likely been the crossbows that did that they are really bad at shooting over the heads of your men lol

[@ivanvoloder8114]

What kind of player plays Russia without their missile cavalary??? I mean, come on. That is their strongest asset.

[@AK-hk4dg]

Pixie in 5k? I knew he was Jesus

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Ali K lol I was testing some things out

[@santhejin8645]

He should have brought artillery

[@titianplaysfifa]

Year 2024 and still not a better game has come out

[@iriskalbfleisch6778]

I liked the video please do more

[@weebgarbage249]

damn well ggwp swisscheese

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Ethan Spurlock lol

[@weebgarbage249]

Pixelated Apollo too much swiss not enough cheese

[@thomaslebel5260]

Forgive the neophyte i am =P but why the army position of Swissman is a noob position ? i'm just curious ^^

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Thomas Le Bel because you dont micro what so ever. You just kinda sit there.

[@thomaslebel5260]

aaah ok, now i understand ! yes, it's true that he could have chosen an another way to fight ^^ Thanks for your answer =) and as usual always a pleasure to see an another battle on Medieval 2 ^^ (sorry for my english if i have made some mistakes =P)

[@PixelatedApollo1]

Thanks for watching :D

[@Orcus921]

Epic battle!

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+John Nickerson thanks john :D

[@raseanguy]

I don't get why he would even attack that box. Why is it Vlad's obligation to attack?

[@raseanguy]

Kit Junkers He had 2 peasant archers of his own though, that he could have used to skirmish with them.

[@Harridax]

+raseanguy 2 Peasant archers V 2 Crossbows 4 Archers and 2 Horse Archers. Thats not a skirmish, its a slaughter and Vlad knew it.

[@mikailaydenizteyukjk230]

I knew it before watch.

[@michaeljohnitorralba1698]

long live the French army

[@rickywheeler6054]

I am 3 years late. Darn.

[@TrashPanda_Cinema]

1v1 so awesome

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Bonecrusher Gaming :D

[@bimbotimboful]

I would have put the pikemen in guard mode just for the cool animation they do when you toggle it on

[@themoptop8284]

it was not exciting but that blew my mind, very interesting strat

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+themop top lol yeah

[@sancho7863]

MW2 is still my favorite total war game.

[@almightyeragon5265]

ha it is a legitimate strategy

[@zacharymichalski212]

damn 2160p is that official or is it for just this video?

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+zachary michalski (XxzachattackzxX) just this video, I was testing things out

[@zacharymichalski212]

oh darn well keep up the seigebattles

[@william_lynch]

does anyone play 'vanilla' MTW2 anymore? i want multiplayer opponents but its all incompatible mods

[@PeruvianPotato]

I still play Vanilla as it has the most players that isn't third age

[@iosif6759]

love your channel

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+iosef Markopoulos thanks :D

[@aorusaki]

I love his voice!

[@Paramecium914]

Since when is the historically accurate tactic of forming a pike square against an enemy with superior cavalry a "noob" tactic. That's not being a noob, thats using a real, historical tactic well.

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Paramecium914 it considered noob because it doesn't require alot of micro

[@Paramecium914]

+Pixelated Apollo "The best maneuvers are the simplest ones." -Napoleon Bonaparte. So Napoleon was a noob? Sounds more like sound tactics to me. :)

[@PixelatedApollo1]

....lol You are really taking this to heart. The term "Noob Box" refers to total war games not history. I would never use that term to describe a historical battle. and the Noob Box is extremely easy to counter, which is another reason its called NoobBox. The only reason it worked here is because Vlad wasn't expecting it

[@Paramecium914]

+Pixelated Apollo Lol. Yeh idk. I probably am taking this too seriosly. XD

[@PixelatedApollo1]

lol no worries.

[@Kill3rdog48]

that intro made me laugh

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Kill3rdog48 :D

[@mrawesooommme]

5K!!!! Does that even exist???

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+mrawesooommme lol i guess soo

[@abca14045]

how to use pike

[@vladimirscekic5406]

can I play online or lan campain ? :(

[@rhiannongibson8061]

small but good

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Rhiannon Gibson thanks :D

[@therobotboysensation8344]

The way he deployed it makes it look like a smiling face

[@Shnimberz]

Is there a website or something where all the Medieval II Total War tournament videos are?

[@chiodh]

guess that's a game

[@myagaahorolmaa1492]

if i was russia i use cossacks with guns and kazaks

[@mylifeisfunny8911]

nice

[@contr_art]

Lol that ended quickly.

[@emperorofthegreatunknown4394]

I must stay as far has pike boxes goes this is a pretty poor one, due to being so vulnerable on the corners, and that the pikemen were in front of the heavy infantry. (pikemen work better behind the heavy infantry.)

[@tinyprince]

Not against heavy cav, which was his main concern. The heavy inf will just get charged first and suffer great losses.

[@emperorofthegreatunknown4394]

Not if you have the pikes close enough to the heavy infantry so that the horses hit the edge of the pike first before hitting the men.

[@tinyprince]

+Emperor of the Great Unknown Oh, ok. I'm not too ecperienced with pikes, so I had no idea. I thought they were able to thrust at the enemy, but not be able to counter cav like that.

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Emperor of the Great Unknown yeah he could of done better, but it worked

[@shanepealow2052]

Swissman!

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+Shane Pealow :D

[@alessandrobenvenuti6551]

C’mon… We all know that noobsquares with pike and shot tactics is overpowered. That’s why it is not fair play. If he wanted to show off his skill, he should have chosen a different strategy. I can do the same thing as everyone else. It’s like “I’m good at Rome 1 because I can kill armies in chokepoints”… yeah. Unimpressive

[@maleficdagon4538]

does not have Dvors XD

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+kevin ortiz he built a rush army

[@CaptainInvisible1]

+Pixelated Apollo Even with a rush army, dismounted Dvors are a useful asset for Russia. Imagine being able to rush, but then coming up against a pike box and so using the Dvor missile capabilities to pick it apart. Vlad missed a trick there.

[@maleficdagon4538]

They have the range almost as far as a crosbow and if you upgrade their defense it almosts gets to a spearmen level and have better morale than the boyar sons.

[@jackalberry3633]

Can you make videos that are quick battles like 10 to 20 min vid least is 5 min

[@PixelatedApollo1]

+rita shahoud yeah I want to make more quick battles

[@jamilmohddahalan7546]

I really good