What is trail braking?... and why you should use it.

[@BretTkacs]

If you want text notification for new videos, text "Tkacs" to 888-306-7782 (now say that 5 times fast... "text Tkacs to"

[@DanDanTheFireman]

I'd love to see more of these types of videos. I am learning more about how to be a better coach with how you speak. All of this is much easier to understand coming from you, than some of my advanced classes.

[@BretTkacs]

I hope it does help... Thanks for giving up your riding days to help others

[@arthurhughes8659]

DDFM - I'm really impressed with your humility, here. Some of your contemporaries are too worried about their ego. They bait people with parking lot "safety" videos, and then add high speed runs on dangerous roads --- knowing (or should, at least) that some of their followers will try to copy them. ... That said, I've never seen Bret do anything that might put a person in danger, and this creates trust. Plus, as you implied, his approach is clean and direct. I'm really happy to read that you appreciate this approach.

[@MrEiniweini]

Well I will be funned and stucked. I actually pay for your channel to learn more, I was thinking the same here. Not because of online benefits, but because I figure it is worth paying for good knowledge to keep me alive on the road. Mostly to support people that provide it.

[@galehess6676]

@@BretTkacs Do you have a patreon or site?

[@BretTkacs]

@@galehess6676 heck yes I do... Www.brettkacs.com. www.patreon.com/brettkacs

[@acopernic]

"I'm never riding faster than I can stop" .. We should repeat this each time we ride.

[@wollywolly2734]

My Dad told me that when I was a kid teenager. It has saved my old butt more than once !

[@carmarusso3869]

I like that

[@johnbasler3463]

Don't question landing on take off.

[@bobsullivan5714]

I don't ride faster than I can think....I recommend it.

[@NoStepOnJake]

Everyone: "ok I'm not riding fas...." Supermoto riders: "what would Larry do?"

[@andrewstambaugh8030]

Just re-watched so I can practice it right. Thanks, Brett. You are a huge benefit to the whole riding community.

[@upsidedowndog1256]

The fun of riding on the street is learning the corners. I have only been riding for 43 years, learning every time I ride as a beginner.

[@Dr.Twisty]

Bret--this is the BEST explanation of trail braking I have ever seen! And I've seen a lot of trail braking videos. You know your stuff. Keep up the great work. Thank you!

[@LisaLadyRider]

I would agree with you except for the being on the gas and the brakes at the same time part. That is completely unnecessary and is giving the bike conflicting instructions. Simply slow until you can see your exit. Watch motoGP, with the fancy on-screen graphics that show brake pressure and throttle position. not even those super-human dudes are slowing and accelerating simultaneously.

[@nikoscosmos]

@@LisaLadyRider I don't know about that - isn't this where the anti squat forces come into play?

[@Dr.Twisty]

Lisa Jones Hi Lisa-thanks for bringing this controversial topic up. I’m with Bret on this. We’re not talking about using a lot of throttle and brake simultaneously. As you are almost completely finished trailing off the brakes you crack open the throttle to “maintenance throttle”. It smooths the transition from brake to throttle, smoothing the suspension. And it raises the suspension (anti-squat) at the most needed time in the turn. Freddie Spencer was an early proponent of the technique. Lee Parks also teaches it. People are very passionate about the topic and very black and white about it. Moto Jitzu used to preach against it until I pointed out that he actually uses the technique in his videos! He admitted he does it, and now actually teaches the technique. Many people use the technique and don’t actually realize they do it. It allows you to get on the throttle very early, but very subtly. I love the technique. I do admit you don’t see many motogp racers doing it on telemetry, but I would argue the amount of throttle you’re using while almost finishing trailing off the brakes is so small, it may not even register in the telemetry. Also, you really can’t compare motogp to street riding. In motogp, they know those turns intimately well down to the foot. They are on and off the throttle at very precise times in the turn because they have done those turns 100’s of times. On the street, in the mountain twisties, you don’t know what’s around a blind corner. And it’s there that trail braking and easing on the throttle while trailing off the brakes is most valuable because it gives you very precise, SMOOTH control of the bike at every portion of the turn. It’s an amazing technique that I recommend you really try to master on the street before writing it off. Thanks Lisa.

[@4theriders]

@@LisaLadyRider agreed!

[@LisaLadyRider]

@@Dr.Twisty I honestly disagree. I did try it. For awhile... And I saw absolutely no value in it. It's a lot of complexity and added risk for no measurable gain. Being on the gas is pushing the bike forward and upright, while braking is slowing the bike down and making the bike want to turn. You are pushing the bike forward from the rear and slowing it down from the front. It works okay, I guess, when you are trying to be fast and don't have a lot of power, but also have a lot of grip. I suspect this is why Parks advocates for it, since he does a lot of Supermoto racing. But in the real world, what are we actually gaining? You say it's smoother - So, we are giving the bike contrary instructions, and unnecessarily using up grip to be "smoother"? Combine that with the complexity of actually trying to do two things at once smoothly with your right hand.... Yes, it can be done, but it's not very easy, and not at all intuitive. The disadvantages of accelerating and slowing simultaneously far outweighs any "benefits", which are so minimal, it's hard to call them a benefit at all. Not even Bret was willing to explain what that benefit was on another comment. So yeah, such a big benefit, he's not even going to say what that benefit is. Mmmmm okay... If the objective is to be smooth, just develop better throttle control. If the problem is you are slowing down too much and you are trying to band-aid that with sneaking on the throttle early, then it isn't solving the problem... Just brake with less pressure. And sorry if I don't put much weight into MotoJitsu, that guy just regurgitates stuff he reads/hears from other places.

[@jezeth06]

BEST EXPLANATION OF TRAILBRAKING ON KZbin. PERIOD.

[@DanielMores]

I could listen to you talk all day :-) You're a natural instructor.

[@BretTkacs]

Thank you...

[@SheenHunter-SeattleFreeze]

Yeah, me too!

[@DanDanTheFireman]

I agree

[@mr.electric8559]

I found this to be the most comprehensible explanation of trail braking. Your way of presenting logical reasoning in terms that are understandable is appreciated. I will pay special attention and think my way thru curves in a more confident method. Not over confident, but more informed approach. Jim

[@arthurhughes8659]

FINALLY!!! I found someone who could explain this technique in a way that helps me on the highway (rather than on a track). Thank you Bret!!! P.s. I recommend everyone watching Bret's videos to sign on as a Patreon. Its easy to do, and I think it's worth a few bucks a month for training that WON'T get you injured.

[@arthurhughes8659]

As a side note, I've watched a number of KZbin videos on trail braking, and most of them are produced by people who are giving 'training' (poorly) based on their limited track experience. I tried using this bad advice and almost hit a pickup truck. Lesson learned: Be careful who you trust your life to.

[@miles-thesleeper-monroe8466]

This just bamboozled me.

[@rborim]

I’ve been searching for a good explanation for trail braking for a while on KZbin. You were as clear and as direct as someone possibly could. Thank you!

[@tommeyer6033]

watch Canyon Chaser

[@steveoverstreet5635]

Later on (a year later?) Brett muddied his own water on this subject. This effort, on the other hand, makes it crystal clear, especially for lesser riders like me. I watch this video pretty often, and seems like I get a little better on my next ride. Where I ride there are a lot of twisties, lots of gravel, lots of complicated corners (e.g. decreasing radius), so I get lots of opportunities to get a little better. Racers measure skill in turns by time gained or lost. We on the street can measure it by a growing sense of confidence and better and visibility thru the turn and beyond - because we can ride “heads up.” That’s my read anyway, and thanks again Brett for a really great video.

[@RamblingRuters]

Trail braking is a life saver and one of the best skills I've ever learned, amazing how effective it is

[@ThreenaddiesRexMegistus]

This is good stuff! I trail-brake all the time. I’m 61 and happy to be ‘that slow guy’ in the twisties when riding with the chaps. I also routinely set up and accelerate through corners on my T-140 Bonnie , but not so much on my CB1300, but only when the exit is clearly visible. You’ve clearly described what I’ve been doing for years.

[@SheenHunter-SeattleFreeze]

These cornering tips are the same I learned in NASCAR school at Daytona.

[@arkis5453]

Thanx a milli 4 all your information on all your stuff..One love from Antwerp

[@Mr100asd]

EXCELLENT ! I'm 73 always had a passion foe FLAT TRACKING since the age of 13, still have a H.D XR 750. For the past three and half years, after getting my new 2017 Ducati 1299S, my interest have changed to track racing. The 1299 electronics make up for a LOT of my inexperience. Honestly, never new it was called trail breaking. I guess, dirtrack racing was a good prepping for track racing. I do not know if you recommend it, at times , I go hot into a turn and lock up the rear brake for a second, slide the ass end around and square of the turn, ALWAYS in control. The Ducati in race mode, rear anti lock disabled. Always have the lean angle display on the dash. The Q4 Dunlap have a max of 60 degree lean. AGAIN thank you. Knowledge is power..

[@krisdecraemer6005]

great talk, finally someone who can explain it in a way a REALLY understand. Certainly the image with the braking/throttle zones were a game changer for me. Thanks!!

[@Xiph1980]

Dude, KZbin just recommended this to me and f*, you are one solid instructor! I've been riding 20 years now, in sunny, rainy or snowy weather and even on black ice, and I'm definitely learning new stuff from your talk! This is absolutely awesome and I'd say critical! Watched two videos of this talk, and don't have time right now anymore, but I'll check the rest later!

[@BretTkacs]

I am happy you took something away from them. It was a short presentation but I hope I got the basics across.

[@rhubarbcrumble3792]

Trail braking will kill you on suspect surfaces.

[@paulpugh2480]

This is good stuff. You don't need to go faster and faster unless you're racing, slow down and enjoy the ride .

[@sipzter]

I agree with others here. The very best explanation of trail braking and why/when it should be done. Thank you. Excellent job!

[@robbessell5704]

Yet again Bret you explain things so well. Once again a consummate professional.

[@teamevironmentrescue]

As a street rider, commuting primarily in areas with very low speeds, this video is so very insightful and taught me so much I wouldn't have necessarily learnt with the on road experience I will be exposed to. Thank you so much Brent ❤️

[@SheenHunter-SeattleFreeze]

Yeah, thank you Bret.

[@roadracingrelics]

Can’t take your blended throttle control seriously until you sort out that chart (@ 7:15); it shows the motorcycle starting to turn even before the brakes are applied, the opposite of trail braking. And, why would you have any amount of brake applied when you have already committed to exiting the turn?

[@Porsche996driver]

Maybe folks missed this (?) but it's also important to learn to hold that small bit of throttle as you trailbrake to keep the chassis stable. As you see the exit out of the corner, your bike will not become unsettled from "jumping on the throttle." Another piece to learn and practice (if you're serious).

[@MotoDeSoto]

“It’s usually the rider who runs out of the will to make it through.” So so so true.

[@TheSacredDivine]

Mark Gardiner (author) once told me "Be late everywhere!", meaning: when riding public roads, it's safer to apex late and this is especially true with an unfamiliar road.

[@gwillard19]

Great explanation of why and how trail braking works by changing the balance of tire loading.

[@donaldakelly9732]

There has not yet been one Bret Tkacs video I have seen so far that I have not learned to be a better rider than I ever could have become just by experience alone.

[@jdelv86]

Great video! I've written a book and online course to teach trail braking to the average street rider. Your video here reinforces my theories and techniques. Best wishes!

[@pieterbusa]

Thank you so much for this explanation. I've been doing this for a while and it really does make a difference

[@shannonchurchill4556]

Trail braking has always been very natural to me. I figured out quickly that it was the way to get the most out of a bike with really bad suspension, and it came in really handy when I bought my 2014 FZ-09 with its horribly under sprung and under damped suspension and choppy throttle mapping. I had to learn to compress the fork and pin the front tire down to the apex to keep it from pogoing, then transition smoothly off brake and into the throttle. 30 years of mountain biking at a high level also helped develop this skill.

[@phatsmitty]

Bret, your style of instruction is so animated, that I need a dose of Ian (Big Rock Moto) to even things out. You are both excellent moto - journalists and we appreciate every vid.

[@ibidu1]

Im an ex mc racer and this is some good stuff! Another thing to add is many people dont trust their tires into turns, freak out and slam the front or rear breaks allowing the bike to stand up straight and shooting you off the turn. Commit to the turn, if you come in too hot, drag front brake slightly, stay focused on your line, stay smooth you will power through it. If you start to drag stuff like pegs or panniers, dont panic. Smoothly shift your torso while leaning your body into the turn, this will allow the bike to stand up a bit, and by leaning into the turn you still have that leverage on the bike. This is why you will see racer hang off the bikes like monkeys, and many will turn into turns with their elbows squared up.

[@BretTkacs]

Yes... I teach body positioning advantages too however if you trailbrake as explained you will NEVER run out of ground clearance. After all your sight line sets your speed so done properly you can trail brake to a complete stop without doing a (panic) stop

[@peterlabiak1051]

Dynamic weight distribution is a corner stone of performance driving/riding. In two wheel world you change bike geometry by applying front brakes and adding throttle however there is only a given amount of traction for whatever you do and if you go across the threshold you lose front or back - if you overcook the corner and you are at the limit of adhesion trail braking will send you into the ditch pronto. One thing not mentioned here is your body positioning affecting the cornering and bike and body separation.

[@reubinthornton]

Great video explaining trail braking in layman terms. I've been trail braking religiously now for about 5 years. I can't tell you how much safer it makes me feel and boosts my confidence! BTW, I ride a big Sport Tourer, K1600GT. Point being trail braking is for EVERYONE. I would have liked for you to cover trail braking closes up the suspension making bike turn and adding gas opens up the turn; all while maintaining the same lean angle.

[@AhmedMohamed-or3bt]

You are just simple and very best at explaining. Thanks alot trainer.

[@VictorVillareal1]

How correct is 7:27? I was told not to throttle and brake at the same time lol

[@CVsnaredevil]

For street riding, you can blend them but with very light amounts. Never blend heavy amounts of throttle and brake. And usually this is just done during the transition from front brake to throttle. I think that lean angle also has a lot to do with it. At deeper lean angles, I would be VERY careful blending the two controls but if you’re at moderate speeds and lean angles, you can blend them lightly just fine.

[@BretTkacs]

Agree (mostly), they can be blended on the track too

[@sgtunix]

Legendary Bret Tkacs talk

[@BretTkacs]

This summer will have more trail braking lessons, more hands on

[@kz6fittycent]

Trail braking was in heavy use during my trip to Deal's Gap NC. Thanks for sharing this, I didn't know what I was doing, but your explanation helped me know what I was doing right and where I need to improve.

[@BretTkacs]

Deals Gap is as good road for trail braking.

[@burnerjack01]

BEST explanation I've ever heard.

[@ereHeuqibmazoM]

Learned a lot from this thank you Was using rear then front off rear then off front gradual throttle I’m gonna you around a bit with this new knowledge

[@aymarx1]

Please do not use this. It is dangerous. And I’m surprised Bret has put his name to it.

[@coastalhillbilly3419]

So good, great content, great delivery, thanks! Now instead of unconsciously trail braking in the corners I will be consciously trail brake in the corners mo better

[@LisaLadyRider]

Oh Bret, you were doing so well, so well explained and - right up until the end part. There's no reason to be on the gas and the brakes at the same time. Just slow until you can see your exit and you can take away lean angle, then go back to the gas.

[@BretTkacs]

There is a very good reason in certain situations to overlap brake and throttle in relation to traction loading and suspension control. But that is a longer conversion...

[@jonas699]

@@BretTkacs The instructors I had on a Honda safety course (mind you only level 1) were advising to use the back break in the corner with constant throttle and add throttle when coming out of the corner and take away the break.

[@4theriders]

@@BretTkacs if you're doing crash testing to collect data on airbag suits?

[@Dr.Twisty]

Lisa Jones Hi Lisa-thanks for bringing this controversial topic up. I’m with Bret on this. We’re not talking about using a lot of throttle and brake simultaneously. As you are almost completely finished trailing off the brakes you crack open the throttle to “maintenance throttle”. It smooths the transition from brake to throttle, smoothing the suspension. And it raises the suspension (anti-squat) at the most needed time in the turn. Freddie Spencer was an early proponent of the technique. Lee Parks also teaches it. People are very passionate about the topic and very black and white about it. Moto Jitzu used to preach against it until I pointed out that he actually uses the technique in his videos! He admitted he does it, and now actually teaches the technique. Many people use the technique and don’t actually realize they do it. It allows you to get on the throttle very early, but very subtly. I love the technique. I do admit you don’t see many motogp racers doing it on telemetry, but I would argue the amount of throttle you’re using while almost finishing trailing off the brakes is so small, it may not even register in the telemetry. Also, you really can’t compare motogp to street riding. In motogp, they know those turns intimately well down to the foot. They are on and off the throttle at very precise times in the turn because they have done those turns 100’s of times. On the street, in the mountain twisties, you don’t know what’s around a blind corner. And it’s there that trail braking and easing on the throttle while trailing off the brakes is most valuable because it gives you very precise, SMOOTH control of the bike at every portion of the turn. It’s an amazing technique that I recommend you really try to master on the street before writing it off. Thanks Lisa.

[@Gringo_In_Chile]

Hi Lisa, I totally get what your saying but this is not so completed to do. For example, I do this when I want to go very slow ( like 2-3 MPH) while keeping the bike upright and balanced. I equate this added maneuver to like blipping the throttle while clutching and downshifting at the same time (ie. engine breaking).

[@motorcyclecafe]

Perfect description on how to ride corners!!!

[@SiriKaktiki]

I have seen so many trail-breaking videos and none made me understand it like you just did! I used to watch you on MTRK and I am so happy that I found your new channel. Subscribed immediately. Thank you so much for your hard work and dedication to teaching!

[@BretTkacs]

I plan to do a follow up to this one that isn't just a light introduction to trail braking. Many of the negative comments are due to a lack of understanding. This was a 10min clip of a much deeper topic

[@colorado841]

9:10 I think it happens the other way most of the time...once people loose their fear, say by grabbing a few at the bar or through experience and overconfidence...they loose the ability to control the bike.

[@ronoldcross8189]

That was one effective explanation of trail braking. 😊

[@nigelwolfe6150]

1988 on my recently purchased Honda Hawk. Bitchen freeway offramp zero traffic onto very wide main thoroughfare LOADS of room to make my turn so I decide to do it fast and play like I'm Freddie Spencer. Well unseeable to me is the light dusting of grit because they had been doing construction in that area and it just did not get cleaned up shit was like invisible unless close up!. So am I healed over into the turn and man I am feeling GREAT about this sweeper ....Then the back tire looses some grip but even that felt fine ya know? Not a HUGE let go..but nice ya know? and I am committed anyway ...front feels perfectly fine at first getting all set to straighten out and bring bike back up fully turned into furthest lane when ? the front starts going too...had there been run off area I maybe would have been fine but instead there is a concrete curb and gutter and I am physically moving right into it so I panic heal over total low side ...BANG flip OUCH! ....To this day I wonder if and/or how I might have saved that? And these days I wonder if traction control would saved me today I seriously did not know it was a type of sand that caused loss of traction it was not white sand contrasting with dark road but dark sand quality grit ..it FELT quite linear and fun/good actually And I guess logic was telling me that if the rear is losing some grip on the throttle? then the front should be fine....I suppose the only way I would have acted differently if I had KNOWN it was a sand issue...I mean I should HAVE KNOWN something was very wrong....nice fresh tires warm from miles of freeway should not have done that. Take home lesson is you NEVER KNOW what is on the surface of the roads you are turning or braking on....it could even look okay and NOT be....and if wet from rain? Damn then you REALLY have no clue! Recently in my favorite canyon riding at a sedate just slightly spirited pace my bike momentary let go front and rear and then hooked right back up....this has happened before also....I have no idea WTF was on the road! Some little patch of something slick.... and a wake up call that shit could be ANYWHERE!

[@greentuatara]

I was a big fan of your mototrek videos and you inspired me to get an 1150GS which I now ride almost every day. It was a very pleasant surprise to see you at the Wellington SSU event (Is that Bret Tkacs in New Zealand??) - watched your presentation and learned even more. Thanks for posting these informative and inspiring videos :-)

[@BretTkacs]

I hope the ACC brings me back again. If they do I'd like to offer a class while I'm there.

[@L--Z]

I love the feel of a double apex corner. Decreasing radius corners...not so much.

[@Keropodium]

Very nice explanation, clean and concise!

[@one-of-us9939]

Thanks for your honesty, many people can use this ability... Not just on track!

[@tjeers3098]

Wow finally somebody that understands how I drive and words it perfectly! Now I just need to go buy a new bike again.

[@watersofthesouth]

Having the front loaded increases the grip but also increases the forces that push the front wheel outside and could end to a front washing out. Loading the rear (with twisting the throtle) is considered a safety net regarding the front wheel's grip. Those two contradict one another and I don't understand which one is correct in the end

[@YSPDJapan]

Loading the front increases the front weight more than what is needed to wash the rear. Otherwise it would be slower and more dangerous to load the front with trail braking. Seeing as that's the fastest way around a track, you can surmise that loading the front is better overall. There are always tangential forces making the bike go straight. Loading the front does increase those forces but the increased pressure overcompensates. This is also alleviated by pushing harder on the inside bars. As far as I know, keeping the throttle is more about keeping the suspension primed rather than about traction (although they're related). If you just let the suspension go, the bike will dive harder in the front and the dive causes the rapid traction gain/loss on the front/rear which can cause a lowside, which is common on the track when people come in too hot, brake super hard, and give too much gas because they're going slower than they should be.

[@skillzmoto7445]

Load the front tire on entry. Rear technique is outdated

[@TheUnsungVil]

This video might save more lives than any amount of caution or fear!

[@jamesfoo8999]

Amazing video. Very informative but also very clear and well explained. Thanks :)

[@chrissmith7669]

I’m trying to learn and practice this. Seems a critical skill that I must master.

[@mweskamppp]

Happened to me once. The turn surprised me and i had to lean more. Thanks god i had enough safety space left to do that.

[@Kels14B]

I use Engine Braking on corners which also applies to trail braking as you speak its easier, then touching the brakes if your focused on where your going .

[@BretTkacs]

Yes high gear engine braking can be very effective and I use it all the time. Doing hard engine braking I am less supportive of in most situations.

[@Dr.Twisty]

There is a big difference between engine braking and front braking. Engine braking affects only the rear wheel- it is the equivalent of using the rear brake. While it does slow the bike down and therefore facilitate tightening the turning radius, it is not nearly as effective as front brake trail braking for a number of reasons: 1) It is not as controllable as your brakes-less control is bad. Braking in corners is a very subtle skill. Engine braking is like using a sledgehammer when you need a small mallet. 2) It lowers the bike (squats the bike) by applying a rearward force vector on the rear wheel and decreases the angle of the swing arm. This leaves you more susceptible to scraping which can leverage the bike off its contact patches and cause loss of traction. 3) Front braking decreases rake and trail of the steering geometry which facilitates turn in. Engine braking does not. 4) Front braking is very, very precise-it uses you fingers which a huge portion of your motor cortex of your brain is dedicated to. This is the type of control you need to slow down in a turn. Hope this helps.

[@InterimExec]

Love how you explain concepts. ??Would you do a video on Mountain Switch back, Downhill, two up on a loaded motorcycle....( a difficult manoeuver imho

[@6GearCutloe]

"Blending of controls" 🔑🗝🔐

[@chrisgunther109]

The traction circle is a little misleading because it assumes constant contact with the same surface i.e. If your front tire hits a slick patch, breaking and leaning is going to cause a faster loss of traction than being upright and breaking etc.

[@YSPDJapan]

That doesn't mean the graph is misleading, it just means the graph doesn't include all the thousands of variables that could "just happen." You have to remove those for the sake of clarity or you'd be sitting there for hours going over every single detail about how x or y or z doesn't work in each situation. Trail braking is great "except" for when you entered the turn too hot because it won't matter. But that doesn't help explain why it is helpful, so you just don't talk about it because it gets in the way of making a good point.

[@chrisgunther109]

@@YSPDJapan When our culture is full of "here's the stats proving my point" I like the specific parameters defined before moving on. I'm not so cynical as to call into question their numbers etc. from the source, which one could (and often should.)

[@jdelv86]

Thanks for the video. It backs what I'm teaching in my trail braking curriculum. Best wishes.

[@antonh7250]

I would like to know how trail-breaking works when you have telelever suspension which does not dip in the front when braking.

[@monkeyCmonkeyDoo]

It's not as drastic a difference on telelever bike as a fork suspended bike, it doesn't dive, but it still moves downward and increases pressure on the front tire. You are still transferring weight, you just aren't getting the geometry change. It took me about a month to get used to it on my BMW.

[@hans8377]

What about the "stand up" momentum, which causes the bike to want to go sttraight or at least to straighten up, when you hit the front brake in the corner?

[@rapid13]

Don't "hit the front brake" in a corner.

[@steveduddy4130]

great video, Bret l missed the event by one day.

[@manuelgasparmartins]

thanks. you answered a question I had. One can continue acceleration during the apex of the turn. I thought you had to completely shut the throttle before braking hard.

[@LisaLadyRider]

No, you really should be off the gas until you can see your exit. Being on the gas and the brakes at the same time is giving the bike conflicting instructions. As soon as you go back to the gas, the bike wants to stop turning. The Canyon Chasers videos do a really good job explaining this.

[@manuelgasparmartins]

@@LisaLadyRider Yeah, I think I remember watching that video. But that's not what Bret's graph is saying around 7:25 min. When I try to trail brake and I completely shut the throttle I'll just slow down too much.

[@LisaLadyRider]

@@manuelgasparmartins Just brake with less pressure and/or stay in one gear higher. The important part is to wait until you can see your exit before you go back to the gas.

[@FlameHazeist]

@@manuelgasparmartins No point in trail braking on the streets, as the bike will naturally slow down through the engine compression alone. The only time it should be necessary is during "Oh shit" moments and at the track.

[@manuelgasparmartins]

@@FlameHazeist that makes no sense. Do you even understand what is trail braking? If you only start braking, when you have a "oh shit" moment, then you are not trail braking. you are emergency braking. And there lies the problem. I think you completely missed the whole point of trail braking... Trail braking is NOT braking with the back wheel.

[@bikeryder757]

Thanks for posting this!

[@andreibonteanu3655]

I’d like to offer another perspective from a purely mechanical physics point of view. Before that, overlapping controls gets you to wane off the brakes and apply throttle in a very smooth pattern because you’re gradually loading and unloading. It will happen more quickly than snapping from throttle to brakes. To do it smoothly without overlapping takes more time than to overlap. This is similar with rev matching a downshift. You can just clutch in and shift down but it’s not going to be as quick a transition as if you blip throttle even if they’re both equally smooth. Let’s say you’re against that though, and take another approach. When you brake, you compress front suspension, shortening the geometry of the bike. A shorter bike between wheels turns at a sharper radius at the same speed (hayabusas need 4 lanes to make a u-turn because of this). Applying some throttle pushes the rear of the bike into the front since most road bikes cannot squat due to the way the rear suspension is oriented. This makes the overall length compress even more. Now you have a shorter bike length due to acceleration pushing from the back and front brake compressing the shocks in the front. Additionally, you gain more traction in the front where you have the most directional control and finger brake controls (better feel than feet). Plus, you make up for some pressure lost in the back wheel by pushing the back into the front of the bike, so more net traction in the front, and less lost in the back. Overall, shorter bike geometry, smaller turn radius, and greater traction all at the same lean angle. Being able to slow down or accelerate smoothly helps you change the turn radius to adjust to the turn angle once you see the road opening up or closing down. With this technique you can adjust to the road as it opens up or closes without having to guess at where the exit may be. It’s active adjustment while you’re turning. Some folks are disagreeing with this out of pure instinct but I hope this mechanical look at what’s going on can help explain the picture better. I think Bret did a fine job explaining but some details may require more thinking to believe, and I encourage you to try to reason through it as I have done before generating an opinion rather than analyzing weight distribution and geometry.

[@BretTkacs]

What you said...

[@dikkeyolo3713]

@@BretTkacs It makes sense but id say you throw away so much traction (brake and throttle at the same time) for just the benefit of having a tiny bit less wheel base, which only affect handling a little. I mean wouldn't you rather have more traction potential?

[@BretTkacs]

@@dikkeyolo3713 you need to watch the talk again... It's not wheel base I'm after its INCREASING traction, ground clearance, suspension control and most importantly speed control to avoid committing to a corner before you have an exit (think blind corner greater than 90 degrees)

[@dikkeyolo3713]

@@BretTkacs Ah Im sorry I meant to respond to Andrei Bonteanu about the wheelbase thing. No I think I understand those benefits when it comes to ground clearance, suspension control and speed control. What I dont fully see is the big pro of overlapping controls, where you brake and give throttle at the same time. Although you might gain things like groundclearance etc, the available taction for cornering goes down. The rear wheel pushes the bike foreward which requires traction, and the front wheel slows the bike which requires traction. Those are two opposing forces resulting in no additional movement of the bike, only a changing bike geometry. So you're throwing away traction which sounds like a high price to pay for the benefits mentioned in the video

[@BretTkacs]

@@dikkeyolo3713 the overlap is light. Of course if there us strong braking against a heavy throttle that could be a real issue. The overlap is precise. As I mentioned there are several types of trail braking. The blending of controls is the most advanced method and the most difficult to master. However that doesn't void the vast benefits of trail braking in the right scenario

[@thebettlesemporium]

Very curious with the 100 point grip theory how you could be on 70 percent lean angle and be 70 percent on the brakes. That's head hitting ground.

[@mildyproductive9726]

It's basically trigonometry. Braking force is forwards/back. Turning force is side to side. If we want to make a maximum traction vector that is at a 45 degree angle between the two, then you get there by using sin 45 braking and cosin 45 turning. Sin 45 is 0.71. Cosign 45 is also 0.71. This doesn't mean we have more traction, and that's a dumb way to say it. It just means that when you're not turning at max, you can do a little bit of braking. If you reach maximum turning, at max cornering speed, you have zero leftover for braking. Even if you corner slower so that you use 70% of your max turning traction, this doesn't mean you can do 70% of your max straight line braking at this point. The second slide with the red circle is the important one. As you increase weight and traction on the front tire, you reduce weight and traction on the rear tire. You need both of your tires to turn the bike. What he's basically saying in a very dramatic way, is IF you want to brake as much as you possibly could during the lean in, you should be using mostly front brake, and as you drop deeper into the lean towards your apex, you need to let off ALL your brakes. Most especially the rear brake is bad at this point (small red circle), which includes engine braking. So if you want to brake as much as you safely can during the lean in, you must not only mostly front braking. You must also overlap this front brake and the throttle as you approach your max lean angle. The throttle has to be used to eliminate the engine braking. You can do this without overlapping throttle and front brake, but you won't be able to brake quite as much during the turn in. You would have to let the front brake off a little earlier in order to get rid of that more dangerous back/engine brake. Like he said, many of our bikes (Harley) can't lean that far, anyway. So this you don't have to be that particular. If you are trying to get a knee down on your sport bike, then you have to pay more attention to the details.

[@davidfpv4969]

Best explanation, thanks!

[@miles-thesleeper-monroe8466]

6.00 I get front suspension up with throttle, but surely that compresses rear suspension? The weight and momentum has to go somewhere?

[@DLITINTHEHOUSE]

Trail braking is not only the first few feet. I don't know who your audience is there, but you can effectively trail brake up to the apex.

[@CVsnaredevil]

The audience is street riders, not track riders. On the street, it’s not really that safe to carry that much speed into a turn. On a track, yes you can carry enough speed into a turn to trail all the way to the apex but on street, it’s safer to do more slowing before the corner, trail off earlier and then maintenance throttle until you begin to exit. Everyone can ride at their own pace and ride however they want but I think it’s correct of him to prioritize safety first for street riding.

[@VState60]

@@CVsnaredevil you’ve got it all wrong-I say this with the utmost respect: you’re missing the general/principled point of trailbraking.

[@brunotvrs]

How does asphalt "quality" affect this? I just came back from a nice travel and the road was so bad at points it was really hard to convince my brain to break while leaning, especially on the way down (since gravity naturally makes breaking less effective) when I could feel the motorbike moving a lot...

[@stickvortex]

Worse asphalt just means you can’t brake as hard as late into the corner. If you need to brake while mid corner I’d suggest to stand the bike up a little as you apply more brakes but keep your body position “in the corner” if that makes sense. That’s what I do. I’ve figured most of my riding out through feel and watching those faster and more skilled than me, the most important thing is developing confidence though, and the only way to do that is to push your limits a little so you can see that you can in fact do better. Regardless you should always be aware of road surface because if there is no grip then not much will change that. Just be more cautious if the road is slick and dial it back a bit.

[@ironmonkey1512]

if the road surface is bad you need to slow down that's all there is to it

[@stickvortex]

@@ironmonkey1512 That's an easy answer but doesn't help anyone become a better rider in terms of skill and technique. The more skilled you become, the faster you can ride etc in worse conditions, just like perfect conditions. In essence, to be safe, yes you slow down but it's more about being aware and feeling out the change in surface and what that means for your riding style and bike etc. I think that if you only thing about like that then you won't be looking to improve. You'll just go slower (which is of course necessary sometimes). Anyway I would say slow down a little and try and get a feel for the road and so on, then go a bit quicker etc when you feel more confident and so on. It's mainly just about building experience and confidence which should translate to skill and bike control if you are in the mindset of improving your riding.

[@raybrensike42]

You don't necessarily have more traction on a tire when you have more weight on it. Think about how you might brake on ice. (you don't brake on ice) The corners on public roads are such that they will almost never increase their sharpness (or decreased radius). They are almost always a constant radius. This is done for safety. However, in some places where the roadway may have been raised on a downhill curve because the water in the lakes have risen, watch out. I found an changing radius curve that way, on a curve I was once familiar with. Yes, that was quite a surprise indeed, one I didn't like. Somebody apparently let the lake tell them where to put the road.

[@jenschristensen1774]

Traction is defined by friction coefficient times down force so yeah, you have more traction with more weight, also on ice (but still not much there).

[@nightnday6675]

I took my MSF with these guys. Theyre really cool. I once laid my bike down (automatic fail) trying to get off the bike because I didnt engage my kickstand fully and the co-instructor saw. I asked if i failed the course, he turns around and says “I didnt see anything.” Lol

[@fb510m]

trail braking video - yes like it but it's complicated, wish message was summarized into what we should do, 1, 2, 3. please simplify and leave us with something we can remember. thank you!

[@BretTkacs]

I will make a video with details some time in the future

[@dadmadforgot4050]

This guy is awesome.

[@BretTkacs]

Thanks

[@liloukulele5238]

Its nice seeing the back of all those bald heads (ie: older riders) its reassuring that I'm not the only "old man" rider out there...learning to ride at 68...and I never go faster than my age!...Great video!

[@MikeStar2000]

They are actually in their 20:s but they have really difficult wives

[@wraith511802003]

OH wowo ANIT squat geometry is why the Tenere feels so much better when throttling around a corner.

[@MrGhirbo]

-On the track we trailbrake with front brake only, because if you trailbrake with rear brake ,the rear squats and you are scraping your pegs instantly. -On the road we never trailbrake with any brake! Dont confuse trailbraking with braking at small lean angles. We can use 100% front brake when straight up, and while u lean the bike slowly. At a moment you feel the bike resisting to lean. Beyond this lean angle, trailbrake happens, you trail off the brakes as u add lean angle. -On the road we quick flip the bike. 1) Estimate a temporary turn in point while u brake straight up&at small lean angles, 2)Without major steering, stay wide, look ahead and when you see your apex, TURN. Force yourself to let go of the brakes COMPLETELY &immediately steer. 3) Get back on the gas just before max lean angle for the turn. 4)If you started your roll on too early, then roll off+bring the bike up+brake, then repoint the bike and roll back on! The line you took in the above steps looks like a zig zag because you steer quickly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Comparing quick flip vs trailbraking, in trailbraking you steer slowly because most grip is already used by the brakes and you dont want to put extra strain on the front tire. When to use trailbraking on the track? In corners that have a long gradual entry + a slow exit(another corner follows after). When to use quickflip? On the track in corners that have less then 180degrees and a fast exit(a straight comes after). This means that on the road, quick flip is used majority of the time. Another point to add is that quick flip creates zig zag lines, this means you are leaned over at a high lean angle, only around your turn in point, that you choose and you know that point doesnt have oil or sand or anything. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mister Bret Tkacs, please teach this to people!

[@teneretraveller8980]

Possibly best explanation of trail braking I've seen. But. If I assess the limit point accurately on approach to the bend cannot I not drive positively even though I cannot see the exit, because with correct limit point assessment I can stop within the distance I can see to be clear on my side of the road? Forgive me if I have missed the obvious, I was not born intelligent. Happy travels

[@BretTkacs]

There is more to it... Keep in mind trail braking is primarily for limited sight (blind corners) A full lecture and class would fill in the informational voids left from this introductory talk

[@teneretraveller8980]

@@BretTkacs ok, thank you. It's a lot easier to try to put it into practice when I understand and believe in the theory. I think modern curves are engineered in a constant radius, so constant drive is fine once the limit point is set, but older, and therefore interesting roads aren't. Curves tighten, and this is where I suppose I really need the trail braking technique. This is great for me. Every day is a school day.

[@lloydmillenstead]

Does the same thing apply for the dirt? (other than where your weight is on the bike) I’ve never run wide on the street, but I have run wide a couple of times in the dirt (only just, never actually came off the bike, but ended up in the bush) Not sure if this is just my brain reminding me that I don’t have the same traction as I do on the street so i can’t lean it as far?

[@BretTkacs]

Yes but not exactly the same... The difference in avaliable traction changes how we use it

[@robertanderson2552]

Hi Brett, great video. At the end of video you talk about 270 degrees turning point and before finding the exit point. Is that akin to going around a roundabout with continuous slight throttle and slight brake being applied before trailing off the brake and slowly applying throttle at the exit point?

[@sohailathar6440]

How to maintain rear Tyre traction and grip while trail braking?

[@markbarber7839]

Race track techniques: repeated corners to dial in. Touring on unfamiliar roads? Best make sure your breaking is done before entering the curve

[@kidlatazul]

I was trying trail braking while riding a beautiful mountain road last year in northern Thailand. On a sharp left downhill curve I kept just a little brake after leaning the bike, and immediately the front wheel slid out and we crashed. I wound up breaking 2 ribs and getting some nasty bruises. When I stood up I ran my foot over the road surface and discovered it was very slick, like black ice, and equally impossible to see. Since then I'm very reluctant to use trail braking. I'm sure this is an excellent technique for the track, where you know the surface is clean, but much riskier on public roads, where you can't know for sure what the surface in a curve is like until you're through it.

[@miketheace64]

the same thing happened to my coworker in usa intersection. oil slick from accident and his bike just slide out. i just got my first bike this week and have 150 miles under my belt. these are the risks of 2 wheels vs 4 wheels.

[@sirvosterzo]

To be fair, you would have probably slipped anyway. Trail braking is likely not the issue here; road gunk is.

[@Dr.Twisty]

David-sorry for your crash and injuries. But I truly believe trail braking itself wasn’t the cause-it was probably “oh shit” braking. As you lean into the turn, you should be trailing off the brakes. It’s very, very important that the technique be mastered before using it in tough, technical corners in real world conditions like the one you crashed in. But done properly, trail braking will improve traction by properly loading the front wheel before turning in and allowing proper speed into the turn. It’s absolutely not just a track technique. It’s a life saving street technique if done properly.

[@omarsalgado9715]

@@Dr.Twisty It is a technique born in the circuit. Proper speed is achieved not by loading the front suspension, but by judging the risk of speed/curve. The technique is useful though, but what is really missing is the "brain" part. To put an example, we can wear all pro equipment in the world, but if we speed recklessly, all that equipment won't protect us from ourselves. It is that simple. Bikers can learn each and every riding technique in the world, but if the behaviour or risk/road condition/circumstance assessment is not brought first, techniques effectively become hand/body tricks. A technique itself does not save lives.

[@Dr.Twisty]

@@omarsalgado9715 Hi Omar. Thanks for the comment. Absolutely--I agree with you that we must use common sense with our speed on the street. But for any given speed entering a blind corner that you have never before entered, trail braking will allow the rider much greater control of the speed IN THE CORNER with minimal upset to the suspension compared to not using trail braking. Mid -turn obstacles, decreasing radius turns, gravel, etc. can be handled much safer if trail braking by just slowly squeezing more brake and redirecting the bike. You can't know the correct speed you should be in in a corner UNTIL YOU ARE IN THE CORNER and can SEE THE EXIT! This is vital in real world riding where you don't know the road, unlike the track which you've ridden 100's or 1000's of times before. Trail braking allows you to adjust the bike's speed until you are comfortable with the speed and direction the bike is in the turn. So I do believe the technique can save lives if learned properly and applied to everyday riding.

[@sarptetikel9341]

I have a question. I ride an electric bicycle with no suspension for a living and I often find myself holding onto the front brake very naturally as I go into a turn (yes it may be slower than a motorcycle, but this only means I brake with less pressure and for a smaller period, the principle is still the same). Does the fact that I'm on a no-suspension bike make it more risky for me to do trail braking because the weight transfer is less effective? And to be honest with you I feel much more comfortable trailing the brakes in a turn than going for the slow, look and press type of cornering.

[@NajNilak]

Brilliant video!

[@dannyaustin84]

It all sounds really good but I still don't get it :) might have to watch again.

[@spiceweasel945]

Great stuff! I wish I had of known this was on. Would have been great to attend.

[@miles-thesleeper-monroe8466]

Anti squat geometry? It may be well engineered to minimise squat on acceleration but physics puts the load on the rear wheel and squat is resisted by a spring. But that spring compresses in the process and that's squat. I don't understand what he's getting at. How does front AND rear suspension raise on acceleration?

[@jaywhoisit4863]

Need more explanation of the anti squat. Dirt bikes all seem to squat when under full throttle but street bikes seem to get light and lift. This must be designed into their purpose. Not sure how this effectively applies to trail braking.

[@roadracingrelics]

Bret, are you saying that throttle blending provides more, combined front/rear grip than does braking only or acceleration only?

[@tomarcher7520]

I understand the benefits of trail braking. However, I'm struggling with the application of the technique while riding my ADV bike (Tenere 700). This bike, and many twins exhibit pretty strong compression braking during deceleration. If I apply brakes at the same time, I end up entering the corner to slowly. How do I address this? Less brake pressure, more entry speed?

[@vareseources]

Just slow down on curbs and you are safe

[@sangesherpa6034]

Great video

[@kvguitarist]

True however, the safest option is to already be in a speed that you do NOT have to brake mid corner. End of discussion. But, if you have to for some reason, then YES, Trail braking is definitely a safer option than to slam on brakes mid turn/corner. Just remember that there is a risk with trail braking because excessive use of the front brake can result in a loss of grip as the tire's adhesion is split between braking and cornering forces. Effective trail braking requires finesse from the rider, which can be difficult to learn.

[@doctorboy5892]

This seems confusing for an important reason. Brett Tkacs is not an experienced motorcycle racer. He is an ambulance officer who does bike training. When Casey Stoner explained cornering to us at the Phillip Island Moto GP then it made sense.

[@galehess6676]

It's different on track vs. street, at least based on comments indicating they'd been to track training or watched training from the track, and had trouble applying it to street riding, but found this video was what they needed. So, it depends on the application: This street advice is based on different physics.

[@dralextsipas]

What about a very long corner where you cant be braking forever?then you need to open the throttle to maintenace level to continue the corner?

[@Daniel-pv8jl]

I had a bad accident a few days ago and I’d like to talk about what happened to get your opinion of what I did wrong