Brewery CIP: How To Verify Your Caustic Concentration

[@seanjennings9042]

Greetings Hendo. What is your opinion on powdered oxygenated detergents? We have a product here in South Africa very similar to PBW which we are using. What is your thoughts on these types of cleaners? We are a small startup brew currently using LLDPE plastic conicals, which means that we cannot wash with high temp liquids unfortunately. In your opinion, what would be the cons of using these types of cleaners over caustic? Cheers

[@RockstarBrewer]

Hey Sean. Oxygenated cleaners such as percarbonate are a milder alkali for cleaning so they're not going to be as effective in removing soil. With your plastic fermenters, you can use caustic at lower temps and it would probably do a better job. Fun fact: if you have a dishwasher, chances are that your dishwasher powder is also percarbonate!

[@raiderrob672]

In our 5BBL Uni's I use 3 - 3.5 cups and fill it with water to just below the carb stone. I think it is about 1BBL? in the 10BBLs I use 4 - 4.5 cups with about 1.5 - 2 BBLS of water.

[@davemorgan3881]

Hi Hendo , Is there a enviro friendly alternative to caustic chemicals?

[@RockstarBrewer]

Hey Dave - Caustic is actually quite environmentally friendly as it is often neutralised by other liquid waste in a commercial brewery. Generally, brewery trade waste is acidic and needs caustic added to it to become neutral. Thanks for watching!

[@joaofernandes33]

Hi Steve, Two questions about CIPs. Looking through the past trending of the daily causticity % of the CIP tanks in my brewery cellar, most were in the 3.5-4.0% range which didn't match up with the Conductivity vs Concentration information that has been supplied by the chemical supplier, so probably the discrepancy comes from flaws in our testing method leading to a greater margin of error than expected and also from the conductivity meters being out of calibration despite them being looked recently by the manufacturer. Given these results, what would your recommendations be on how we verify the causticity of our CIP cellar tanks going forward? My other question is about the removal of residual carbon dioxide (CO2) in vessels as a by‐product of fermentation through sterile air flush before CIP. What's the best way of assessing this? Unfortunately, both our Haffmans and the CboxQC portable O2 meter don't read CO2 gasses and I resorted to using a carbon dioxide portable detector. Thanks!

[@RockstarBrewer]

G'Day!! Great questions! 1) If I were in your shoes, I would cross-check your conductivity meters with a titration of the same solution to verify that everything matches up. A burette is cheap and would make for a great backup and method to calibrate your conductivity meters since the titrant is a known concentration. The conductivity numbers from your chemical supplier should only be used as a guide as it doesn't take your brewery's water into account because it's alkalinity may vary. 2) Why not use your DO meters to measure oxygen to verify that the CO2 has been removed? After all, the CO2 is going to be replaced with air which is 21% oxygen. It's pretty rough but it would work. You may also want to consider investing in a CO2 detector - the kind of one that's used for checking confined spaces. Putting it against your blow off while purging with air will verify CO2 concentration in the tank....I hope that helps and thanks heaps for watching!!

[@joaofernandes33]

@@RockstarBrewer thanks!

[@Teh509]

In testing I have found recommendations of 2-4% of an 80% solution is way over. Typically I use 2L of 80% per 80 to 100L in my cart. Have never had a tank that isn't cleaned nicely. But I guess the Sinners circle has a lot to do with that. 30min at 80c seems to work perfectly for us.

[@Explorewithro]

Is there any alternative chemical other than NaOH or KoH?

[@RockstarBrewer]

There are acid based cleaners for BBTs but I wouldn't recommend them for FVs as they generally don't get rid of caked on yeast tide lines in the tank. NaOH based cleaners are safe, environmentally friendly and are the way to go. Thanks for watching!

[@Dorkmeister9988]

Here’s my issue: I work with the stuff safely often but other people in the brewery are a bit careless and I’ve had caustic burns for NO GOOD REASON because they don’t rinse things or just aren’t careful about caustic. I’ve been just throwing vinegar on the burns since our sanitizer is peroxide based and won’t help as far as I know. Any quick relief to caustic burns? Might just get to the point of wearing gloves always in the brewery cause I don’t trust these mafks to handle chemicals responsibly

[@RockstarBrewer]

Gloves and eye protection - always - when handling chemicals! Good SOPs and having regular toolbox chats with your brewing crew are also important. As a last resort, if I get a caustic burn then diluted PAA is the usually the most handy neutralising solution (usually it will be in your parts buckets). Your brewery gives me concern - please stay safe!

[@ae92levingtapex]

Where I used to work we just guessed, 1 minute of water in the tank and 2 buckets of caustic. Where I work now we use conductivity and aim for 120mS. We also use a product from ecolab called Duplex to add to the caustic. One other thing to note is if you reuse caustic and your cleaning tanks with CO2, you'll have caustic convert to sodium carbonate.

[@RockstarBrewer]

Hey thanks for your comment. Absolutely correct about CO2 degrading caustic. It will definitely weaken it and you'll need to top up with more caustic. It's also good practice to completely replace your CIP solution occasionally as well. Thanks for watching 🙂

[@akrocks1819]

How to calculate brew house effieciency and brew house yield.

[@bxtech37]

I use 800ML of caustic solution pr half bbl of hot cip water @ 170°f.

[@jimmatzek5895]

I have a 2 bbl system. I just use pbw... Years ago I worked at a winery snd used lots of cusstic in our cleaning process. Had plenty of chemical burns on my forearms. Said if I ever hsd my own place I would never use this shit....

[@RockstarBrewer]

Ah that's sad to hear that you've had some safety issues. At the Rockstar Brewer Academy, we run a module called "Manage Effective CIP" which teaches you how to use caustic safely. Would you like some more info about that?

[@nene12431]

400ml caustic for every 75L

[@brendanquinn6894]

measure

[@charlesstewart4051]

Something kept distracting me watching this 5 mins in and then whisky tango foxtrot is that katakana on that shirt going on about, “I’m your daddy? “

[@RockstarBrewer]

Ha ha that's my Star Wars tshirt! There's an 8 bit picture of Luke and Darth Vader out of shot on my tshirt. I guess the katakana says "I am your father" 😂😂😂

[@Griz_Banks]

Proper part cleaning storage sanitation gaskets tri clamps ect.

[@RockstarBrewer]

If this is a request for a video topic then it's a good one!