Brexit is a "slow puncture" on the UK economy | Economics | The New Statesman

UK economy could be comparable to “Slovakia” in 10 years - says economist Duncan Weldon
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Will Dunn is joined by Duncan Weldon to discuss his recent article Britain has never faced decline like this before. The two discuss the “uniquely” bad situation of the British economy, what role Brexit played in getting us here and the lack of radical response from both Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer.
Weldon argues that whilst Brexit is a “slow puncture” on the UK economy, it clearly has a problem with the engine.
When the UK experienced economic decline in the 70s, Weldon argues, there was a brith of radical economic solutions to combat it, what we call “Thatcherism” - however the political debate today “those big ideas just aren’t there".
Read Duncan Weldon's article on the UK's economic decline here: www.newstatesman.com/economy/...
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[@erikson024]

As a Pole who arrived as a teenager in Britain in 2007 I can see it first hand. When I arrived the difference in living standards between Britain and Poland was stark. However, ever since the financial crisis of 2008 I've seen living standards in Britain stagnate or go down , while Poland has been consistently on the up since then. I graduated from a uni in the UK and work as an engineer in the North of England on 2X average UK earnings and can truly say speaking to my friends back home about job prospects I am being tempted more and more to go back to Poland and seek opportunities there. Having lived in the North of England for the past 6 years I truly believe large parts of the north are poorer than average Poland , which is insane given how different the histories of the 2 countries are.

[@paddydunne774]

The mentality is hugely different to. I lived in the Uk all my working life. Over forty years. It’s been good for me, but it’s time to return to Ireland. I just don’t understand the thought processes the Brits are implementing now. The Uk is on a similar path as Argentina in the 20/30s. You any keep making errors and getting away with it. Poland as a nation, is really interesting story. I used to go there in 80’s and the changes are profound. It would be a great time to be mid career and making a change. Good luck with your endeavours. Never to old to grab an opportunity 👊☘️

[@SeanONilbud]

There's no future on that island.

[@pole040]

I just came back from Zakopane, drove across the whole Poland. That country is amazing man. Roads are good, people live in a nice houses, prices are affordable, people are happy. If I was from Poland never in my life I would live in the UK. You can live besides the border of Germany and be in central Europe. Everything is super reachable.

[@paddydunne774]

@@pole040 it’s beautiful down there 👌I was in Krakow in mid December and shall be returning to Wielicza at the end of January.

[@porridgeramen7220]

@@paddydunne774 Real talk, i'm a fellow irish, are loving standards really better in Ireland or on the up? Housing crisis on a level that would make the entire UK blush, and similarly gutted public services.

[@1adamuk]

As a British citizen one factor for me is this no longer feels like a nation or country, it feels like a business park and that's how it's run. I'm just a worker in a workplace not a citizen of anything. This country has been run like a business for decades and the consequences are becoming apparent. Can I quantify this? No, obviously not.

[@tadas9216]

I think you have a strong case given Thatcher and her legacy.

[@HamnaTabuu]

Certainly doesn't feel United either.

[@MrBillythefisherman]

If it's like a business park it would be a business park where all the businesses are failing and barely making ends meet. It's not like a business park - we're running on the pure far right ideology of a Tory party that has been overrun by UKIP, chasing their votes as they blame everything on cyclists, a few desperate people in dinggies, a couple of old ladies in woolly hats holding placards and Prince Harry whilst Britain burns. A reckoning is coming.

[@1adamuk]

@@MrBillythefisherman This country hasn't been overrun by UKIP, it's run by the billionaire Rishi Sunak. It's the corporate right, not the nationalist right, that runs this country / business park.

[@roasthunter]

I can relate to this big time as someone getting on a bit the face of the UK has changed massively.

[@returingfavour]

Almost to the day 23 years ago I went to our bank Lloyds TSB to ask for company overdraft facility of 50k. Our business was employing 18 people and had a turnover of over 2m at the time. The bank turned us down. At the same time my employee got 300k mortgage from the same bank/branch. I clearly remember the moment of inspirational clarity while having my coffee at Cafe Nero next to Chelsea Town Hall on Kings Road. If the bank sees lower risk in lending 300 k to buy the house and yet turned down his employer for 50k OD facility you know that something unsustainable is built into the system. I was in the wrong country. I moved company (and all the jobs) to Singapore first and then expanded to six other countries. Once we made our HQ in Singapore we got grants and commercial support we could only dreamt of in the UK.

[@Kknewkles]

You mind me asking what business you're in? I'm curious :) Nice to see it went so well.

[@returingfavour]

@@Kknewkles it has evolved over the years but fundamentally it was always business intelligence service for oil and oil logistics.

[@alistairthow1384]

And if we could quantify you skills, knowledge and value to the british economy you offered then to what you have done since then the UK has lost a fortune I'm guessing.

[@returingfavour]

@@alistairthow1384 Not necessarily Alistair, because of the focus on property ownership / financial speculation Uk has also attracted a lots of talent in financial services industries... You lose on one side you gain on another... However financial crisis of 2008 has made shortfalls of such strategy plain to see... Asset is valued more than income and taxed less. No improvement until this changes.

[@paulgibbons2320]

They are only interested in artificially inflating our housing stock. Anything else is secondary. Poperty tycoons, gradually making the masses homeless. You used your head and got out. Hope you write to your MP an explain your situation.

[@velayuthman]

Sadly with each passing day we can see the impact this awful policy has had on the UK. Tied up in red tape and tariffs with lower GDP than before the pandemic whilst the others in the G7, including Italy, are above. The lower GDP means we do not have the headroom to pay our way in the world and must resort to borrowing.Whilst there are rich people in the UK; a great many of us are poor and now we are poorer still. What steps can we take to generate more income during quantitative adjustment? My primary concern is how to maximize my savings/retirement fund of about £170k which has been sitting duck since forever with zero to no gains.

[@TeresaBrickle]

That is everywhere. The problem is, with a rising labor shortage, that industry will be the hardest hit. Fundamentally, restaurants as an industry are only viable with cheap labor and cheap rent. Right now, we have neither.

[@Curbalnk]

Well, the top players and pros have exclusive information and data paths that are not disclosed to the public. Knowing the strategies to use during this time is one thing and having the right information to execute them successfully is another thing.

[@colleen.odegaard]

@@Curbalnk Absolutely, Fiduciary-counselors have exclusive information and data paths that are not disclosed to the public.. I've made north of $260k in raw profits from just Q3 of 2022 under the guidance of my Fiduciary-counselor “HEATHER ANN CHRISTENSEN”. Am I selling? Absolutely not.. I am going to sit back and observe how this all plays out.

[@Shultz4334]

@@colleen.odegaard I know I've wanted to start investing for a few months but just haven't been brave enough to start due to the market so far since mid last year. I have 60k i want to transfer into an s&s isa but its hard to bite the bullet and do it. $260k is a huge milestone , Please whats your strategy ? i will love to have an insight.

[@colleen.odegaard]

My F.A who has witnessed dozens of market cycles over the previous ten years, taught me this. She has an intuitive understanding of how things move, why they move, and what will happen next. She may be a name you are already familiar with; a Newsweek piece helped me to do so. She's a Google-able person.

[@marpintado]

BREXIT IS A HUGE SUCCESS, it as worked exactly as intended. England can now maintain is fiscal paradises for the rich. That was the only intention behind leaving the rules of the common market. The day the EU proposed ending fiscal paradises the English politicians started talking about leaving the EU.

[@klemlao5463]

Precisely. Also ripping up employment protections.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

I agree, and without brexit Scottish independence and Irish reunification were fantasies now they're a reality.

[@heem6619]

English politicians have been talking about leaving the EU since the Maastricht Treaty.

[@majuli8420]

Someone gets it. 👍

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

@@heem6619 England (as opposed to Britain) always misunderstood the European project, they just saw it as a means to reanimate the corpse of the empire and exploit poorer countries and not as a means of peace through raising all countries out of poverty with shared dependency. It's ironic that it was Thatcher that helped the EU become the economic juggernaut that is now able to roll over the UK.

[@aperitivo.6471]

As an Asian doing a business in London, UK WAS the main gateway from EU to Asia before Brexit. It was a Hub in the EU for outbound to Asia. Even though UK government set moer trading deals with S.Korea, Japan, Australia etc, there are not much benefits. Almost Zero from the new separate deals. So what? yes, we are moving our business to another country located in actual EU. We are going to not only hire Europeans, sell & trade more EU goods, but also pay our TAX to EU. I am not the only one. The ecosystem of UK economy is not as simple as & the same as 50 years ago. I assume it's not slow puncture. I do hope the Brexiters regret for the rapid sink of the UK economy.

[@ausbrum]

When the Australia/EU trade deal is signed, I imagine the EU will use its deal as its gateway to Asia, via Australia

[@derekmab7734]

Xenophobia, nationalism and isolationism are more important for the Leave voters than economics. They can eat these ideologies when they go hungry and use them to pay their bills, they can also use them as radiators to keep them warm in the freezing winter. Now food banks spreading all over the country. Idiots and arrogant!

[@BobBeatski71]

Those who voted for Brexit will only regret their decision once the effect of Brexit begins to affect them. Until then, they think they've won some form of victory.

[@neodym5809]

@@ausbrum EU has trade deals with Japan, Vietnam, Singapore...

[@arilebon]

On a trade level, Brexiters seem to hark back to time when Britain ruled 3/4 of the world and can set trade rules to London's advantage; plus leveraged Naval strength to impose will on other countries. The world has moved on.

[@Robertgriffinne]

Thanks, I'm from the UK and all of what's been said is true. People are going through tough times and there is a difficult winter ahead. The biggest problem here is the gas and electric bill's have gone up 400% . Will be sharing this video with friends and families to help them realize and prepare. With inflation currently at about 10%, my primary concern is how to maximize my savings/retirement fund of about £300k which has been sitting duck since forever with zero to no gains.

[@tradekings5433]

There are lot of ways to make a killing right now, but such high-volume near impeccable trades can only be carried out by real-time experts with ISDA Agreement. An ISDA agreement; lets investors sit at the “big boys table” and make high level tradess not available to amateurs. Trying to be a high stakes trader without an ISDA is like trying to win the Indy 500 riding a llama.

[@gracesdonny1532]

@@tradekings5433 Cash can be king , but it depends on how much you have. I.E- if you have 300,000 cash when the house market crash occurs you will have a LOT more opportunities VS many others especially when people get foreclosed.

[@jenniferkyle6036]

@@gracesdonny1532 When the stock market rebounds, many investors may come to regret not investing in the red today. It's possible that this pricing will never be seen again. If you have a fantastic vision for it, there is always opportunity in the midst of chaos.

[@jenniferkyle6036]

@@FeliciaJudge How do get in touch with this financial consultant whom you mentioned?

[@FeliciaJudge]

@@jenniferkyle6036 You can look her name up on the internet. She's renowned and has quite a following. So it shouldn't be a hassle finding her official webpage.

[@I_am_a_Cunning_Linguist]

As an Indian it was mindblowingly stupid to see UK trying a deal with India when they could have just stayed in EU and enjoyed free access to huge market and talent.

[@cptadb93]

Exactly, India already has the economic power to walk all over us in terms of making a deal, and that will only increase as time goes on.

[@theutopia777]

The Commonwealth is a device which was created to make the rich richer, as they look on at our social decline from their ivory towers. Britain should also be better than needing to deal with cartels (EU) and protection rackets (NATO). If you create things of unique value then people will demand that thing, regardless of membership to a top down power club. Britain dominated the world through morality, culture, intelligence and supremacy of the individual, all. of which have now dwindled. By putting culture and individual empowerment first, Britain can rise from its ashes / from Dantes inferno.

[@robtyman4281]

​@@cptadb93 ...one senses a complete role reversal, compared to the relationship between the two countries that existed in the 19th and early 20th centuries. India is now in control and holds all the aces. While the UK is in the junior role. We exploited India back then......will they do the same to us (albeit in a modern way!) as this century progresses? It's going to be very interesting seeing how the relationship develops between the two countries over the next 30 years. And whether India will be in a position to fire thousands of British workers at short notice at a company or plant that's under Indian ownership; and hire Indians to replace them....paying for their travel, and lodging while they're in the UK. This is what Brexit is in reality. Anyone who thought it would return us to the 'centre of the world' again, with sunlit uplands around the corner, is frankly in cloud cuckooland. In reality we've opened ourselves up to India and China, to take full advantage of, and exploit. That's Brexit folks. Anything else was only ever a nostalgic dream rooted in a long gone past. And one that will never return. India are now the masters, and we - the servants. Again, this is Brexit. This what you voted for, by voting for Brexit. You made the choice.....now accept it and deal with it.

[@paulfulton7968]

Money going into tax havens and not being spent back in to the economy dose not help

[@paulcowham2095]

indeed, and the City of London Corporation never seems feature in any discussions.

[@rorykeegan1895]

Bad spending decisions, a lack of investment and Brexit are far more impactful than tax avoidance. Typically British to ignore reality and blame fringe issues instead.

[@gethinhooper3671]

@@paulcowham2095 It's the New Statesmen -i.e neo liberal with a dollop of virtue signalling and righteousness to be enjoyed with champagne and vol-au-vents in your recently refurbished town house in Muswell Hill or East Sheen - It's not the whole story..shop around my friend!

[@gethinhooper3671]

@@rorykeegan1895 HMRC missing £47 billion last year. -Could build a nice railway with that..

[@gethinhooper3671]

@@rorykeegan1895 I'm obsessed with Brexit too...to the point where if I burn my toast I blame Brexit!

[@mrstephenpariah]

Decline by design.

[@fmj9346]

Absolutely

[@derekmab7734]

Xenophobia, nationalism and isolationism are more important for the Leave voters than economics. They can eat these ideologies when they go hungry and use them to pay their bills, they can also use them as radiators to keep them warm in the freezing winter. Idiots.

[@LonnieHalouska]

An act of self harm.

[@bigbensmith9504]

At last someone who knows

[@CBEEBLE]

Disaster Capitalism

[@Rachelschneider03]

Nice timing, great video. Only if a good amount of folks do what you guys teach, just imagine how many millionaires we already have or will have in the future. Not the sad statistics where at least 50% of people are living paycheck to paycheck, even for high income earners. Great contents as always!

[@MariusNatt]

@@AshtonGrace >>Hold long term good growth companies DON'T LOOK AT IT DAILY…. Hold 5-10 years .. AMZN, GOOG, TESLA, META, MST …. Etc companies>> that are flush with money .. and don’t worry …. These companies are like mutual funds in of themselves … they are invsted in so many different things …JUST HOLD … also buy NOW they are on sale.

[@ReidCoffman1]

@@MariusNatt We must look for safer investments with promising futures, if we are to be future-ready. If you have the mindset to invest five years in advance and simply keep DCA whenever you receive a check. Under the direction of my financial advisor, >>>"Autumn Lynzi Smith", my portfolio has grown by about £430,000....

[@stevencooper7818]

@@ReidCoffman1 >>these advisors are probably outperforming the market and getting good returns.>>> I'll give her a lookup, thanks for sharing this....😇

[@coopsnz1]

There won't be more millionaire with more socalism policy the labor party will introduce

[@Tosse901]

@@coopsnz1 oh nooooo, not more millionaires buhuuu, what will we do? Man, I'd rather have less millionaires if therefore there are less really poor people!

[@PETE4955]

This is due to its historical means of finance: empire and colonialism. It's all gone, but the British parliament has a profound difficulty in acknowledging this fact.

[@salkoharper2908]

When the rich elite can't rob India and Africa anymore, they went back to robbing their own people in Britain.

[@gerrypowell2748]

Each time I go back to the UK.from France,I see a massive difference in its economy,I then think,I made the right move to leave😢

[@Jeet-2023]

A british-indian here. After living in Britain for 15 long years, working in high-tech making 6 times that of national average income, post brexit I decided to leave the UK and moved to Germany. I could see it coming & it's not about brexit.

[@yingyang1008]

As someone of Indian heritage, maybe you can work towards convincing India to open its borders to millions of Pakistani and other Muslims, with Hindus becoming a minority in their own country This would be a good example for others to follow and help promote the benefits of mass immigration

[@clarissagafoor5222]

@@yingyang1008 He mav be Anglo-Indian - thus NOT of Indian heritage!

[@yingyang1008]

@@clarissagafoor5222 He isn't though is he In any case, we should help idea diversify but opening up those borders

[@jacobfield4848]

The UK government has focused on London and only London for decades. The result is an unbalanced economy.

[@ES-qm5hr]

I left the UK after leaving university because I felt the opportunities in the UK were so sparse that I was basically wasting my time. I think that you do not need to be an economist looking at the data to see something is fundamentally wrong with UK society. There is a tangible feeling that the nation is rudderless, and that the elites of Britain are only interested in servicing a morally bankrupt clique of people who really don't care about the general wellbeing of society. The most worrying part of the interview was the moment where it was highlighted that we are in one of the worse economic situations the UK has ever faced, and there is neither alarm, nor solutions being posited. There should be alarm, and their should be accompanying solutions being thought up. It is not beyond the intellect and wit of the country to deal with the issues being faced, but it seems that no one with any power to do anything seems at all interested in addressing this crisis. After living abroad for many years, I now fear that I will never be able to return home because the level of disfunction is so high that it would be dooming me to poverty, and a drastic drop in my standard of living. I am hoping, quite selfishly, that soon real leaders appear who are able to implement practical, and pragmatic reforms to the country. I look around me where I live now, and see government which does this, so I know it is possible. My life experience has taught me that macro economic issues like this have to be addressed from the top down, and I hope soon political leaders in the UK realize this. As an average person, I feel helpless to do anything.

[@bmmaaate]

You are not an average person because you sound intelligent.

[@Andrew-rc3vh]

The person who is deciding the future of the BBC has 5 O levels and a qualification as a secretary. She became a baroness after working (sleeping?) with the right people in the US military.

[@person.X.]

Same. I emigrated over a decade ago and was intending to return but now not an attractive option. However at least I have accumulated non-Sterling assets so insulated somewhat from UK economy while my purchasing power has increased.

[@ES-qm5hr]

@@person.X. I am in a similar situation, but I think giving up your friends, family, and culture is a high price to pay for having a stable life. Though, I think it is a sensible decision, I would prefer to be able to maintain my important social connections, but not at the cost of bankrupting myself financially. I don't come from a background where I can rely on inherited wealth, or connections to fund living in the UK in the current economic climate.

[@tomatom9666]

Reminds me of Portugal, I had to leave there in order to find good work and have anything really, even as a freelancer it was frustrating there because there is absolutely no infrastructure for entrepreneurship or innovation, and getting anything done, for example changing an adress in a beaurocracy can take months.

[@gedog77]

My wife is Lithuanian, we have been visiting her parents every year since 2015 and I notice the number of new cars, the quality of civic spaces, the digitisation of public services, the speed of healthcare access. They have all changed dramatically and for the better over this time and here very little has changed. The routine method for advertising wages in Lithuania is net monthly salary. That used to be 1/3 of UK, now it's about 80% to parity. Housing prices are rising steadily but there's less pressure than here. So yes, I can see what Duncan is saying. While the subprime credit crisis was not our doing, the rest has been our own political choice.

[@gedog77]

@@Paul-zu2he debt/borrowing is definitely more present but wage growth and jobs suggest this is real underlying growth in the economy.

[@ericconnor8419]

@@Paul-zu2he You can't even define what woke means. You lot are part of the problem.

[@samspencer7765]

@@Paul-zu2he I don't think "crazy wokery" is affecting the economic woes of the country, and people's living standards/purchasing power.

[@pritapp788]

Tories and Brexiteers will say: it's not developing countries which are catching up to the UK, it's the UK which is catching up 😂

[@giansideros]

@@Paul-zu2he you think it's still worth even mentioning though, after all this decline and stagnation, you still want to go on about "woke" rubbish and distract yourself with histrionics than dare question conservative economics.

[@stephenmuirhead5489]

I’m a Scot who got an MBA in the US and after 20 years of corporate life in the US, Europe and Canada I set up my own software testing and tech support business. After 5 years we reached $7million in revenue and I decided to open a sister operation in Europe and set it up in Glasgow. Within 6 months we were profitable and I applied for an overdraft facility at our UK bank. The response from ALL the banks I contacted “ Come back after you’ve been in business here for 3 years!” The “services” sector that the UK is so proud of is too risk adverse to compete effectively!😢

[@marianhunt8899]

Austerity is like expecting a sick cow to recover by feeding her less and expecting her to produce more milk.

[@dantownsend4246]

Your children one day might want to work in an EU country for a better standard of living , but, they lost their FOM.

[@stevec6427]

I'm looking at leaving the UK now for the benefit of my children. They'll never be able to buy a house here, they'll have no job security, no right to protest, no right to strike. Rees-Mogg and his mates are actively trying to remove all workers rights as part of his deregulation. There will soon be a US style health insurance system which is fairly terrible. There's not really much left to hang around for now

[@eddielasowsky7777]

@@stevec6427 Please go, you are of no benefit to the UK

[@HamnaTabuu]

​@@stevec6427don't blame you! ...meanwhile, do what you can to object to the current mess. Sadly, we have to wait a while before we can have it say in a GE.

[@Scruffed]

@@HamnaTabuu Even if a GE were to happen tomorrow, as far as I can tell, there would be no difference between Labour and the Tories as far as Brexit and UK/EU trade is concerned. As we get closer to the next GE, I'd expect Labour to be more timid rather than more brave on that front.

[@HamnaTabuu]

@@Scruffed I'm not a Labour fan or voter, however I think they would do a less worse job than the current "Tories" /ERG. Turning around brexit will take quite a change in the electorate to make it to the party agenda. Demographics shows this is happening with time, and with the impact becoming more obvious, I can see the tide will eventually turn. Keep pushing for it, doesn't mean start here.

[@Jonpoo1]

The economist had some good stats on this recently which were published quite widely online. They have had great coverage of the unique case of the British economy in the past few months generally. We really are in a bad position compared to our peers but a small class of very wealthy people and asset owners have done very well.

[@vikingraider1961]

Yup - JRM, the Barclay brothers (owners of the torygraph) and Viscount Rothermere (owner of the daily heil) all moved their investments to the EU as soon as it became apparent that we were leaving - an odd action, considering how they banged on about how the british economy would do so well outside of the EU... Of course what's actually happening is that they're "shorting" our economy - they expect it to tank and they can buy up whatever they want for peanuts.

[@squareinsquare2078]

Brits should stop voting Tory. Why do the Brits want to be governed by posh nitwits that hate them?

[@BigHenFor]

The FT was much more vocal, and has a great video on Brexit here on their channel on KZbin.

[@buxton5165]

There's a channel here on youtube, "garys economics" where he goes over how the wealthy are managing to make money at the cost of everyone else. It's worth watching his videos. He mainly complains about inequality, which is becoming a serious issue in britain.

[@ricado372]

@buxton I second that. Gary's economics is a great channel and the great thing is if you go back to the covid days of the channel, you can see how all his predictions were spot on.

[@shakilkamal8194]

18th and 19th century money was looted from colonies, India and Africa in particular, since the loss of the lootable colonies, decline started in 40's and 50;s, Brexit is a nail in the coffin, Professionals should work abroad now.

[@extramild1]

Speaking as Irishman I don't know whether to laugh or cry watching the UK turn into Argentina upon Thames.

[@revol148]

@John Spencer come on John we in the UK are turning into the Israel of Europe - please hate us as you wish and similar to the Israelis we really don't care what people think ! Btw how is the Celtic tiger doing?

[@distantraveller9876]

Sadly, this country is going down the drain. If you can, leave now before things get worse and trust me they WILL get worse. My wife got a job offer in Amsterdam so we're moving in February which is a bit scary because none of us speak dutch or know much about Dutch culture, but we figured at this point it can't possibly be worse than staying in the UK.

[@srinivaschillara4023]

Aha don't worry, the Dutch are a slightly less humourous but a bit more honest version of you lot. I maybe be slightly wrong, but broadly right.

[@jankoning6742]

don t worry you will have no problem with english in the netherlands

[@vanderquast]

Wish you a very nice time in The Netherlands, don’t worry about our language, we Dutch understand English very well. Everywhere you can order your goods and services in English here. We accept that we are a small country that has to adapt to the world to survive economically 😊

[@bmmaaate]

The Dutch speak English very well and you will get on fine as long as you learn the simple pleasantry phrases. Gouden Morgen, Austublift, Dank u well.

[@Ginoto]

You don’t have to speak Dutch to be succesful in The Netherlands, especially not in Amsterdam, english is nowadays the commun language there.

[@mozartsbumbumsrus7750]

I grew up and spent half my life in California. I've lived in Londongrad since 1976. Britain has always been a basket case but delusion and denial has always ruled the British. Reality is denied. As a high art musician I've lived and worked on the continent and never has Britain been any good place to work. Nowhere is perfect but some places are better than others. Britain is thoroughly corrupt and wretched unless you're wealthy. Brexit killed productivity. There's no hope or chance for productivity with Brexit. Brexit is GREAT for tge rich Brexiteers who love slavery for the Brittunculi. Brexit is permanent and so is the gravy train for the Brexiteers. Job done.

[@yingyang1008]

"Brexit killed productivity" - maybe it will, but Britain has always lagged behind in terms of productivity, this is nothing new

[@iberiano-ls2rv]

This video should be broadcaster in the whole UK.

[@johnl.7754]

Too bad it won’t be since the broadcasters would think that average people won’t be interested in listening (and they might be right not only in UK).

[@sunrae3971]

Why? Not a brit but he sounds like Blair 20 years ago....services, services, holy grail, unicorns.

[@iberiano-ls2rv]

@@johnl.7754 very sad , as it seems that many people in the UK are blind and " zombified".

[@crookedpaths6612]

Things are going to explode in this country, I can feel it. Crime is on the up, prisons are in a bad state, schools are failing, police are a shambles. Add to that inflation and a recession with possible job losses and unemployment …

[@BrokenBritain4u]

The NHS don’t work , public transport doesn’t work , the infrastructure is a total mess , crime is out of hand . I’ve been in the Uk for 25 yrs and I cannot see how Britain can be “turned around” it’s a very sad situation.

[@maywalker997]

It can be turned around but it needs a party with brains, talent and the resolve to build more of an ecomony by spending taxes wisely on developing infrastructure. None of these will ever happen under a Tory watch though (and the Tories should never be forgiven for what they have done).

[@ericconnor8419]

I had a nice little business supplying Italian heritage vegetable seeds to Britain and British oak saplings to Holland but it was destroyed. I rarely go outside now. I could have coped with losing it to a war or bad weather, but to have my own people wreck it is devastating. The sad part I can't even leave now. I didn't want to before but now I wish I could.

[@roasthunter]

It's a shame to hear how the EU won't let you trade with the UK anymore, the EU is a protection racket for members that the UK left and so they are on outside of it now.

[@dominicestebanrice7460]

@@roasthunter Yeah, it's a shame that the golf club that I refused to abide by the rules and pay the membership fees won't let me use the course and clubhouse facilities anymore...the golf club committee is so unfair!

[@roasthunter]

@@dominicestebanrice7460 you best join one of the other golf clubs then.

[@ZubbaKon]

@@roasthunter The whole Brexit plan was to have further access to the common-market at discount conditions. Reasoning that the EU could not afford to lose free trade with the UK. And that backfired. Badly. It is not the EU's fault that the UK had such unreasonable expectations.

[@edwardmclaughlin7935]

Eric Connor I'm sorry to hear of your failed business. I think I might guess what you refer to as it being wrecked by 'my own people', but I can't be sure. What precisely caused its demise?

[@walkonhotcoals1277]

It’s the distribution of wealth. Always was and always will be. Wealth has been extracted from the British economy for decades now. Those actions are finally been felt.

[@yellowgreen5229]

You mean our ancestors threw the wealth away!

[@mahon257]

@garyseconomics might be of interest to you (I agree)

[@iche9373]

Blame the conservative voters, they vote as if they were rich

[@yellowgreen5229]

@@iche9373 ...and evil.

[@martinhunter1187]

I’m so glad the interviewer pointed out that we can hardly be a nation of lawyers & film directors 😂

[@mdaniels6311]

I live in Thailand so come to the UK about once or twice a year. Evrtytikd I come back I see the decline, just little things like more homeless people, the streets not being upgraded, I can't see the doctor, my sisters can't afford gas or childcare, just general social decline. If I lived in London with my job, I'd have to live in cramped flat share. Here in Thailand I have a lovely two bed apartment and can save 1000 a month. I can just get in a taxi on a Friday afternoon and travel 80km down to the beach get a hotel, eat out, etc. (which I'm likley doing this weekend). I could NEVER live like that in the UK

[@olih27]

This is an absolutely damning appraisal of our future

[@2msvalkyrie529]

More impotent fury from Remainers .! Why not actually DO something about it ? Like start a Rejoin Party . Farage did it ! It's a pity the EU don't actually want Britain back . I'm sure you'll think of something !

[@brydenholley1904]

I left the country and many others have done the same since Brexit. At an individual level, I'm not sure there's much the average person can do, other than 'vote with your feet'. The politicians are hopeless across both big parties. None of them have any real solution to offer. The UK has a long, hard road ahead. Great video though, thanks for sharing 👍

[@jjbiggmann5576]

WHERE DID YOU GO....IF YOU DONT MIND ME ASKING.

[@derekmab7734]

Xenophobia, nationalism and isolationism are more important for the Leave voters than economics. They can eat these ideologies when they go hungry and use them to pay their bills, they can also use them as radiators to keep them warm in the freezing winter. Now food banks are spreading all over the country. Idiots and arrogant!

[@rredford01]

I am planning to leave too, thoroughly fed up

[@sarahpengelly8439]

I am British & living in NL. Unfortunately most of us with British passports are confined to the country we live in. Yes, we lost our entitlement to free movement too.

[@R_ilse]

@@sarahpengelly8439 same! Would you consider a Dutch passport one day? Me and my partner are thinking about it but the prospect of giving up our British passport is daunting in case something happens to our families in the U.K.

[@fransdigitalmediaservices3912]

When I studied economics as a module in the early 90's in London, we had a book called "the decline of Britian" which it claimed the decline started just after world war 1. If it was not for the empire the country would have been bankrupt. It has been claimed that the wealthy class in Britian are more focussed on internation investment and incomes derived from legacy international investments and therefore seem to be happy with an unequal society at home.

[@pehash]

For a country that is in decline for 150 years, they sure as hell made a mistake by leaving EU.

[@gedog77]

Yes they did. Stupid

[@markanthony3275]

No, the idea was the right one, but their own policies of mass immigration and climate change crap is kneecapping them. Just imagine what Britain would be like right now if none of the immigrants who came there in the last twenty years, were there today.You wouldn't have an overloaded healthcare system, you wouldn't have insane housing shortages and high costs for housing, you wouldn't have a scarcity of employment...you wouldn't have the current level of crime.

[@gedog77]

@@markanthony3275 yes you would. The housing shortage isn’t down to immigration. The course of most of our issues is failure to invest on the part of our government. Healthcare failures were predicted 25urs ago at least. I was there at the time. That’s about demographic change and more older and sicker people.

[@gedog77]

@@markanthony3275 and climate change is a scientific fact. Gravity is real, the earth is round and we did cause climate change and it is now killing us.

[@mitchyoung93]

@@gedog77 Because immigrants live under toadstools, right?

[@pauli2169]

He is absolutely right about the standard of living in the UK, it is already behind much of Europe and will definitely get worse in the foreseeable future. I see it when I go back home to the UK.

[@Arltratlo]

funny, for traveling to Spain, i just need my ID and the chances to be stopped are very slim but people from the UK need a passport and have to be controlled or they commit a crime! that must really suck!

[@djtaylorutube]

@@Arltratlo That's only because the UK does not have a national identity card, the passport is the only accepted travel document. Same as if you go to say USA, you're not going to get there with a Spanish ID card.

[@R_ilse]

Same, I live in the EU and when I go back to the U.K. to visit family, I notice how rundown everything looks. The government do not invest in most areas of the U.K. and it shows

[@diegolove173]

Went to France in December for a week and I my daughter 21 years old had a fever we call the doc within an hour we manage to have an appointment , I said to my wife while driving there's no potholes wtf is happening hahahahah we drove back to the UK and the Kent motorway was horrendous my wife said should we drive back to France hahahaha but yeah the UK is neglected

[@philiphowell1505]

@@R_ilse I live in the EU and never go back there, the family visits me lol, love from Gran Canaria.

[@johndoe1909]

I dont thinks its that slow after all. 4% yearly shrinking is quite impressive....

[@simoncavill]

We lost over 50% of our business overnight due to Brexit. It became almost impossible to service individual eCommerce consumers based in the EU when before it was almost seamless. Most people don't realise that by being outside the EU, any UK-based small business has to deal with the individual EU countries' product standards, customs tariffs and VAT rules - and they are all different! In addition, if you do more than 10K Euros worth of business in any one country, then you have to register for VAT in that country and complete an ongoing monthly/quarterly return in their native language. Almost any small start-up or eCommerce seller based in the UK faces a stark choice. Cap any growth ambitions and stay exclusively trading in the UK or try and handle the enormous red tape and accounting burden of dealing with each country in the EU you sell to, or give up and create a separate business in say the Netherlands as a distribution hub to the rest of the EU and the world using their better trade deals!

[@robertalexander3839]

I think the last part of the discussion is critical. The UK has gotten itself into a situation where all of its comparative advantages are in sectors that are inaccessible to working class people. When it comes time to vote on progressive, outward-looking policies, they're left wondering what's in it for them. How is having a world class film industry helping them - How is a globally renowned accounting sector benefitting their children. So we get a politics built around villianizing "spoilt, lazy, middle class liberals" and "identity politics", and telling working class communities "Don't worry, we're going back to basics", while in reality there's no feasible way of resurrecting those industries in 21st century Britain.

[@Jay_Johnson]

This is a good point. I feel like the only way to solve it is to expand the proportion of the population actually in those roles and that them to fund a functioning welfare state that can improve the quality of life of not just the absolutely desperate but the majority of the working class.

[@LordOfLight]

And there are still uncounted numbers who affect to believe Brexit is a good thing.

[@davidpearn5925]

Optional voting is dangerous………..but appreciated by Vladimir Putin.

[@jayneryan6395]

52% I believe :)

[@davidpearn5925]

@@jayneryan6395 now down to 36%

[@jerryorange6983]

Yes those ones who are happy with saving 1 Boris bus by paying 3 buses for the privilege. (9bn EU membership, 40 bn lost in taxes because of Brexit in 2022)

[@chriselliott726]

@@davidpearn5925 But far too late to matter.

[@gungadin900]

Productivity in the UK has traditionally been low compared to France and Germany, We are falling further behind in that regard because low wages and zero hours contracts present little in the way of encouragement to be more productive.

[@diskopartizan0850]

Fixed term contracts and employers not investing in employees too.

[@gethinhooper3671]

@@diskopartizan0850 exactly that sorry to say.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

It is a leftover from the empire days. Britain never had to invest in productivity. It got everything it needed from their colonies for free, by labourers who worked for free or ultra cheap. No need to invest in productivity because you will always have the competitive edge that way. And that exactly instilled a focus on productivity increase in the countries surrounding britain because that was the only way for them to increase competitiveness against the uk. Once the uk lost it's empire the decline started instantly. It was a long way in front so it wasn't obvious at the time i think, but by the 70s the lack of productivity growth had taken it's toll. The cycle of decline was broken by joining the eec, and that did hide the problem again. Now the uk left the eu and it is back to where it left off in the 70s because fundamentally not much has changed in the meantime.

[@zuzanazuscinova5209]

@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 Exactly this. Hard to see how things can turn around.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

@@zuzanazuscinova5209 it eventually has to turn around somewhere somehow. The question is how much hurt does it take to make the necesary changes..

[@TheFinav]

I too left the country. There were personal reasons for this, so it was not solely down to Brexit. Nevertheless Brexit made the decision very, very easy. It saddens me to think of my family and friends in the UK now, with worse economic prospects, with fewer rights than they had before, with an underfunded and consequently broken healthcare system. Though I confess I feel less sorry for those that (a) voted for Brexit, (b) continue to insist the UK is better off.

[@judeirwin2222]

“ none so blind as those that will not see.”

[@alextabet9247]

Close the borders? LOL. A colonialist country has no right to closed border borders. And Brexit did not close the border anyway. There are more migrants entering the UK now than there were Pre-Brexit.

[@andrewnielsen3178]

They are like Trump voters - beyond understanding.

[@miroslawturski]

I came back to Poland in 2019 after 12 years living in the UK. For middle-class family like mine, the standard of living had have already been higher back then. In Poland I earn at lest the same money, but they take me much further in terms of what I can afford. The country is much more modern and it really shows.

[@mybrotherscomputer]

Even back in the late 2000s, coming to Britain from the Netherlands it was shocking to me how poor certain parts of the UK were. I left 10 years later, after Brexit out of petty annoyance, but honestly its been the best decision. Love London, but the UK is not a good place to live

[@HShango]

London is a good place to live (depending on what you do)....but the rest UK (I'd not recommend the rest of the UK).

[@LonnieHalouska]

The U.K. has been downgraded to an "emerging market economy.". That's a euphemism. The U.K. economy is old, decrepit and ossified. It's power was always dependent on exploitation of its imperial possessions.

[@yingyang1008]

It was always this way - things are better now than 30-40 years ago

[@nudgenudgewinkwink3212]

@@HShango The rest of the U.K would disagree and have the opposite view.

[@hieroglyph321]

Good move. I'm stuck here due to family. Depressing.

[@sniferlip]

I thought it was common knowledge that GB is on the decline in all areas. Population, education, economy, everything. The banking center of Europe USED to be London. Since Brexit, it has been Brussels now. Banks (and money) have left England. Brits think they have a superior standard of living but in actuality there are millions of desperately poor people. It has been on the decline since the beginning of the 20th century

[@BigHenFor]

Please don't generalise. Britain whilst an EU member had both the richest and poorest regions in the EU at the same time. British people know about the poverty amongst them, but the middle class haven't had their share of income loss. Yet. They will, as it is the asset rich who are increasing both wealth and income inequality in their favour. Britain's economy is being cannibalised by its own wealthy people, aided, and abetted by the financial sector, who feel entitled to not to lose their wealth. Until the upper working class and the Middle Class work out that they and their descendants are being robbed, the deflation of the UK economy will continue.

[@Arltratlo]

and thanks to their political system,the UK will be faster a real 3rd world country, they must be careful, maybe India is sacking the British isles, because the EU will not touch it with a long stick!

[@gio-oz8gf]

@@zockblattshickleblender7758 It was never the EU's job to do anything for the ordinary British People. The EU provides a market that enables relatively frictionless trade between member states. The member states are responsible for taking advantage of the market and distributing the wealth that creates. Either you didn't listen to what was said or you didn't understand it.

[@dirk2518]

@@zockblattshickleblender7758most of legislation concerning quality of life is European. Food safety rules, environnemental protection, product quality.

[@InnuendoXP]

@Zockblatt Shickleblender many of the workers rights that British people take for granted were brought in from the EU. And if the British people haven't benefitted from EU membership, that's a failure of British governance to distribute it's economic success across the broad strata of society. But so many English would let the toffs literally piss in their own front gardens and still never raise a vote against them, because the Sun told them it couldn't possibly be better under any other government even as it's actively making their lives worse.

[@sdt4907]

We would love to welcome you back. ❤️ from Germany to our European friends in UK

[@coc_is_me]

Would we though? From another EU country I think we can live without the UK’s negative disruption in the community

[@a.r.stellmacher8709]

No thanks! The EU is doing much better without England in it.

[@quippy8402]

The problem is, the worse is yet to come (e.g. sharp currency devaluation and hyper inflation) if the country continues in this current direction. I wonder what the UK gov is thinking and why it is not doing anything to fix the obvious mistake.

[@NickAskew]

We moved to the Netherlands nearly thirty years ago. Back then we saw it as a stepping stone for our careers and we would be back in the UK within a few years. However we quickly found that life here suited us and that in many ways we were better off here than back in the UK. Now some of that was just due to location as we are now able to far more easily reach facilities such as shops, bars, restaurants as we are living in a much more built up part of the Netherlands than where we were in the UK. But other tangible things are also better, commuting is far easier as we have cycle lanes and great public transport. Attitudes towards employees is also better here and employees tend to get more respect from management rather than being seen as a tool for the business to use. I'd also mention that it is wonderful to be working in a culturally diverse country where other cultures are generally welcomed. However I would not say cost of living is better. Our house is far smaller than most of our family and friends in the UK and the cost is high. Similarly the weekly shopping is not cheap, health care is paid via insurance, utility bills are high, petrol prices are high, and taxes are high. However this last point means that society can afford to take care of the poor in society so generally the gap between rich and poor is not so big and that to me is a good thing. I absolutely would not want to trade living here with the UK although we still miss friends and family.

[@eddielasowsky7777]

You are not welcome back to the UK and that drivel you wrote is the reason why.

[@roelkomduur8073]

Bare in mind that the Netherlands is 40% reclaimed land, is still keeping a whole lot of people dry ( unlike the annual floods in the UK ) you can say that our taxes are a bargain...

[@NickAskew]

@@roelkomduur8073 Ah, yes, our potential here for a serious flood has not escaped me and we are doing really well to keep ourselves dry. As I said, I do not object to higher taxes and your point is perfectly valid that we do have extra costs.

[@roelkomduur8073]

@@NickAskew We in the Netherlands don't often realise our good fortune....We can be a bit moody over our "karnemelk"...

[@NickAskew]

@@roelkomduur8073 🤣Ah yes, karnemelk. I have spent nearly 30 years trying to avoid that experience along with salmiak ballen. I remember once picking up a glass of what I though was halfvolle melk only to find it was karnemelk. It reminded me of the milk we used to get in school which sometimes was left out in the sun for too long. Not, in my opinion, a positive aspect of Dutch life but certainly not a reason to go back to the island. 😂

[@steffanwillis681]

Its already happening, I moved to Asia 3 years ago for what I thought would be a couple of years. The growth, dynamism and opportunity is incredible. Quality of life is so much higher. Other than family ties, moving back unfortunately makes no economic sense

[@EpitomeLocke]

Where in Asia did you go if you don't mind me asking?

[@midlifecarsis6420]

It doesn't make any sense if you care about your health, overall quality of life, good weather and your children either.

[@johnl.7754]

@@midlifecarsis6420 there’s many countries in Asia many of which is better for the things you listed.

[@midlifecarsis6420]

@@johnl.7754 yes that's what I said...

[@sheehyjessica1991]

As Chinese people in uk who doing business , just felt so depressed compared to what happened in my own country. Do you think I have to leave uk and back to my own country ?

[@gabhanachdenogla8342]

It wasn't just the industrial revolution that led to Britain's economic growth - you can't forget (and shouldn't) the exploitive nature of the Empire - exporting food from Ireland during a famine, the slave trade, stealing resources from native populations in Africa, India, N. American etc.

[@Horsa-sr8oz]

The US was also badly impacted by 2008. The difference was that the US government/FED pumped money into the country while in the UK the electorate supported the Conservative policy of austerity and continued to do so for over a decade. Brexit also met with a positive response from the electorate which just amplified the problem. The UK electorate for good or I'll, opted for the current situation, knowingly or otherwise.

[@mdaniels6311]

They have been fed lies by the right wing propoganda machine.

[@Nemo59646]

12 years of the Conservative Party throw in Brexit.

[@sarmatiancat-a-phract8705]

Not to mention New Labor.

[@Nemo59646]

@@sarmatiancat-a-phract8705 Agree New Labor. Started the war against disabled people and the unemployed with Welfare to Work import from the USA.

[@bmmaaate]

@@sarmatiancat-a-phract8705 New labour didn't push for Brexit. That was Johnson and Cameron.

[@justsayen2024]

It doesn't matter what anybody does at this point it's a long road back. But one thing that I do know is this government has to go,, it seems to me they're only interested nouveau serfdom.

[@ernestthesmallholder559]

It is not just for one term of office. The Conservatives need defeating and the party and ideology broken up and discredited as with all imperialist parties and groups. This is the problem as wealth and power is so centralised in Britain. Over centralisation of power is the main reason why the Soviet Union collapsed. There is nothing wrong with basic capitalism ( Even the USSR and China had capitalism ). But, monopolised capitalism caused stagnation. More concentraion of wealth stagnates the economy. The trickle down theory doesn't exist. There needs to be public ownership of the economy by wider share ownership among all sections of the population and the people taking investment decision on an individual basis.

[@bmmaaate]

All of them, including the opposition and the silly useless side parties. We need a system that works, not a bunch of drunken idiots having a banter party all day long my right honourable friend.

[@bluebear6570]

The decline of the British economy began, when Margaret Thatcher started the journey into de-industrialize the nation. Britain lost key indutries, fully relying on imports from continental Europe, while at the same time focussing on services, mainly financial services. This has led to a shift in wealth, filling the pockets of those already quite well-off, and impoverished those, who earned their keep in factories. The Brexit now adds to that.

[@yingyang1008]

The UK was a disaster for decades before Thatcher - a laughing stock regularly called the "Sick man of Europe"

[@3506Dodge]

My British friends who visit me in the Washington DC area every every few years comment on how they feel Britain's stagnation more and more every time they return from our visits.

[@saddoncarrs6963]

England, once the seat of a strong union and a mighty empire, has been on a long slow bumpy downward spiral since WW1. Brexit is all part of that decline. I'd say the country has a ways to go yet but, by all accounts, there is no reverse gear and the nation appears to be heading inextricably towards a rather rocky bottom - with the tories leading the way. There is no empire left, and soon no union.

[@bigbensmith9504]

By design.....why don't people understand that......Kalergi plan etc......they work over decades and generations. China style society is the chosen way for all of us. They have to destruct the west to get us there.

[@rickmaurer8726]

Just shocking that workers who are underpaid, starving, freezing, or sick are not as productive as individuals in other countries who are not. But good luck convincing the top 2% that matters....

[@aliasgharkhoyee9501]

That makes sense, but is this about individuals? Overall output (sales numbers) aren't mainly dependant on workers I think it's determined more by how advanced the production machinery/technology is, how much spare income domestic consumers have, exchange rates and trade deals for export customers, etc

[@marianhunt8899]

100% correct

[@joehobo2189]

It's amusing how people never challenge the idea that economic growth should be the only measure of economic health rather than quality of life.

[@ravenseft]

If you can't put bread on the table, it's not much of a quality of life.

[@elektrofrere]

I feel so sorry for intelligent Brits like these two. And my East London friends. I moved my life and my business from the UK to the Benelux countries in 2019, but not everyone is able to do this so easily.

[@paulmackilligin1754]

The financial crisis of 2007/8 and Brexit are not unrelated. Wages in the UK have stagnated from 2007 onwards, and yet THE major cost people face, which is housing, has risen very sharply since then. Average UK house prices have virtually doubled over that fifteen-year period, even though the headline inflation rate has been quite low. If people in the UK had been feeling that things were getting better, not worse - that they were getting richer, not poorer - then they would not have voted to change the status-quo by voting to Leave the EU in such numbers. Rapidly-rising house prices can be a sign of a failing economy. Capital has to go somewhere. It doesn't sit on a shelf. If you have money in a bank account, the bank will be investing that capital somewhere. If the productive economy is not providing a good return on investment then the alternative is to invest in property, in land, in commercial property, and in the UK housing market. UK housing has for some time provided better returns overall than investing in industry, so all that capital inevitably chases property, which further pushes up prices, further improving returns. And then there is that clever stealth tax known as QI or Quantitative Easing. Since 2008 roughly £1 Trillion has been 'printed' by the Bank of England and lent to Government. That represents a very efficient transfer of value from citizens to government of approximately £40,000 per UK household over that period. Of course when you 'print' money and spend it, that devalues the currency. A house in 2022 is worth exactly the same as a house in 2008 (i.e. it is worth exactly one house) but the £150k that could have bought that house in 2008 is now only worth half a house. Those who own property have been somewhat insulated from that QI stealth tax due to rising house prices, but those who do not own property have been absolutely hammered.

[@gethinhooper3671]

Agreed. But we need to think about why salaries have declined and not kept pace with real inflation. -some of this has been masked by cheap imports from abroad (e.g China)/ cheap produce etc. which is coming to an end! Nobody wants to talk honestly about why salaries have declined -automation is part of the mix but so is too many workers/ or guaranteed supply allowing businesses to grow regardless of productivity shortfall. This policy of constantly pandering to business like this is dumb ..if you believe in the long term prospects of your Society/the people..The CBI is like a drug addict constantly coming back for more instead of investing in what they've got. This brings us back to the question of 'place' -does the elite believe in it or do they believe that they are now sufficiently untethered and just free market globalists. The events in Ukraine and China suggest that the rug is about to be pulled from beneath their louboutins..!

[@paulmackilligin1754]

@@gethinhooper3671 Cheap imported consumer goods, yes, that's right. Since they are "not making land any more" it would make sense to take house prices as a benchmark of value. (I like the US term, 'real estate', as land-based property is real and stable.) Changes in production and distribution methods do not affect the real value of houses very much, because a high proportion of house value is the value of the land itself. So, taking average house prices as a rough benchmark, we can say that the real cost of consumer goods has fallen fast since 2007, together with the value of the currency. Real wages have fallen over that period at roughly the same rate as the cost of consumer goods. This has been a more-or-less sustainable situation for those who own property and have a reasonable wage, because mortgage interest rates have been extremely low over that period. What we are seeing now with headline inflation rates rising fast, food prices rising even faster, and a labour shortage driving wages up, is perhaps a correction. Prices and wages are still much lower in real terms than they were in 2007, and have a ways to go to get back to those levels. For me, the real tragedy in all this is that the UK economy (the actual productive economy that actually makes things and generates actual prosperity) has been eviscerated, and largely replaced by a speculative economy based on buying and selling property. It's like the old joke about the mining village where the pit had been closed down and there was no work. "Oh, we all make a few pounds by taking in each other's washing." We have now the phenomenon of people choosing to leave the labour market, becoming 'economically inactive'. The sad fact is that for many many people, their house earned more last year than they themselves earned by working full time. It has become clear to many that work is often an unhelpful distraction from the real business of building up personal wealth and security through the accumulation of property.

[@roasthunter]

Very well put

[@LonnieHalouska]

Excellent points. The financial shenanigans leading to 2008 were a stake through the heart of the British system.

[@yingyang1008]

So let's bring in millions more immigrants

[@grahamargent8057]

In the near future one of the main drag against UK GDP improving is that the bulk of the population deemed to be the mass market consumers as a group in aggregate are becoming inexorably poorer

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

That's all part of the cycle. It snowbals and accelerates. Poorer people means less economic activity, which means even poorer people, which means even less economic activity. It is very hard to break the cycle. This is what happened in the 70 and the cycle was broken by joining the eec. Now the uk left again and the cycle returns because very little has fundamentally changed since the 70s.

[@LonnieHalouska]

Resulting in crushing debt. Ordinary citizens are having to get groceries on credit.

[@frida507]

The "trickle down" effect clearly doesn't work as promised... Why make your country a tax haven for rich foreigners who drive up the cost of housing but don't have to contribute with proper taxes?

[@yellowgreen5229]

@@frida507 because they own our politicians

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

@@frida507 having rich friends and giving them favors makes you rich as well.

[@elliotlambert3817]

The decline is not unique it's has been going on since Thatcher, in her wisdom under valued the productive class, she and her government had a view that the working class had to be kept down. Publicly owned land and businesses were sold to private companies and some people became rich as Britain became poor.

[@yingyang1008]

Britain was in crisis for decades before Thatcher

[@peteranderson6935]

He's going through the old trope of modelling GB as a country of "service sector" Graduates of the Airport Bookstore School of Management driving around in BMWs and selling insurance and advice to each other over their mobile phones. Neither the car nor the phone are made here. I quit the UK on graduation in 1982 and have been plying my trade since as a "smokestack" Engineer in South Africa, France, China, KSA, Brazil, Myanmar, Algeria, and currently back in France on a chemical plant project. Back in UK airports and through Eurotunnel, using trains recently, I'm reminded of Zimbabwe in the mid 1980's. The UK is now quite literally 3rd world, but it's not a developing economy, it's a disintegrating economy. I've been tracking the relative decline anecdotally against my personal basket of worldwide economies for 40 years. What France, China, Germany, and even Italy have in common is that their Cement, Steel, Mining, Machine tool, basic industrial building brick sectors are still extremely competitive internationally. The british economy has been built on a house of cards since the late 1970's, and every time the wind blows, down it comes. And there is no solution in this generation - to rebuild an effective critical mass of industrial competence takes long-term commitment and strategic engagement to see it through. Our politics are not fit for that particular purpose. But it's OK, it's a big old fun world out there, and if you can put up with the rain the Yorkshire Dales are a nice place to come back to for a bit of a holiday. Sure, I'm alright Jack, but survival is about reading the runes and adapting.

[@rossmurray6849]

"Austerity" was a disastrous policy. It's debateable whether the Government Debt to GDP Ratio was ever a major concern, but even if you accept that, there are two ways to tackle it: austerity (cut spending and raise taxes) or growing the economy. Interest rates were at historic lows at that time which means there had never been a better time to preference growing the economy over austerity.

[@heem6619]

And that window of opportunity has probably been missed forever. The history books will not be kind to the post 2010 Tory govts.

[@rossmurray6849]

@@Paul-zu2he In most economic cycles I would agreed with that. But I think 2009 to 2020 was the exception. That was a period when govts should have been borrowing to invest in infrastructure.

[@mynameisjoejeans]

@@Paul-zu2hegovernment borrowing costs were functionally zero when inflation was accounted for. It rly was the perfect time to spend.

[@chuck1804]

Most policies on the Tories' watch have been disasterous, it seems. How they kept getting voted in I will never understand.

[@markanthony3275]

You will never grow your economy if you embrace the climate change religion. All those "green jobs" or "jobs in the new economy" don't actually exist. Do you really trust your gov't to create them ?...because nobody else will.

[@Yggrdrasil]

Every time I travel to Europe I notice the stark contrast in the standard of living and wellbeing of the citizens. I am actively making moves to leave and am grateful for the EU passport I currently hold.

[@bushwhackeddos.2703]

Why are the people in the dinghies fleeing the EU?

[@zuzanazuscinova5209]

@@bushwhackeddos.2703 Albania is not in the EU

[@wanderschlosser1857]

@@bushwhackeddos.2703 Ever seen an EU citizen fleeing to UK in a dinghy? These are migrants/refugees who chose the UK especially for language and family already living there. By far most refugees stay in the EU. The numbers of refugees trying to get to UK are just laughable in comparison to what the EU absorbs!

[@yingyang1008]

It's always been like that though - think of the 70s and 80s, was even worse then

[@VagabondShoes]

@@bushwhackeddos.2703 Do you have any idea how many migrants other European countries absorb (without too much complaint). Germany took in close to a million in 2015 and more last year.

[@jonnorris7564]

I moved to NZ in 2007 and without a doubt the difference between my little country with its very minor GDP and the UK is amazing. If you want to understand how this shows itself then look at your playgrounds in the UK then get in Google earth and have a cruise round any town in NZ and see the difference. I’m always blown away at how lovely the places are kids have to play are. If you have a skill and a young family then look very seriously at moving, your kids will thank you on the end, ours certainly did.

[@freddiemoses467]

I get a recruiter from NZ contact me once a month to try to tempt me. How does the money compare? Is the lifestyle better? Job opportunities?

[@everTriumph]

And defence budget? Or are others picking up the tab.

[@DivinesLegacy]

Gdp ≠ better playgrounds.

[@tonyf9984]

@@DivinesLegacy National GDP (6th largest economy in the world!) says nothing at all about living standards. It's per-capita GDP that matters - the size of the slice of pie that each individual gets. The UK is about 30th down the world scale, and falling. That, of course, only if the pie is divided into equal slices ... and it's well-known the the UK has one of the least 'equal' societies in Europe. Hence the fact that the UK poor - of whom there are many - are much, much further down the wealth scale.

[@revol148]

@Jon Norris so no social or economic problems in NZ then eh Jon? hmm the last I heard it was one of the most unequal developed countries alongside Israel and South Korea....with endemic house prices to match

[@sarahahmed113]

Oh my gosh, the economy! The economy! Who cares about anything other than the Economy? The idiocy never ends.

[@randyduerr503]

Make the overall volume of your program louder

[@machidaman]

I'm hard of hearing and can hear them perfectly well.

[@mrstephenpariah]

@@machidaman Depends on the device. It is relatively low volume.

[@Jonpoo1]

Yep. The relative levels are fine. They just need to be higher overall.

[@nortoncommando2516]

Hear hear!

[@chriselliott726]

@@machidaman Well that's alright. As long as you are OK!

[@MsNimpnimp]

Well done, Will Dunn and Weldon.

[@o_o8203]

This is why English is such a hard language to learn 🤣

[@ericr4b]

❤ touche

[@wongbenyb2679]

That sound like a Londonor, a Geordie and a Scot went for a steak

[@judeirwin2222]

For the average Brit, it’s Ben Dover and Roger Mee.

[@adilaa545]

The mother h've got sense humor

[@lasitabesa3951]

What makes me sad that the EU is reduced to its economical benefit . I have never felt this way since the dabate over the brexit. I also think this will mislead us the Eu in a wrong direction.

[@nudgenudgewinkwink3212]

People only think of the E.U in terms of econimics, But it is a political union and there are many future implications to that.

[@Bertie22222]

This article is like nectar to the EU cultists, they come on here with the doomsday stories they share with other cultists and rejoice in the negativity.

[@mandenakis]

I left the UK in 2017 and was working remotely for UK-based companies until 2019. I am a European citizen and I always considered the UK to be my home, even more than my country of origin. It is really heartbreaking to not have the same rights as I used to. The majority of my friends still live there and I am astonished about the change in prices across the board. I'm still in talks with various businesses for UK job opportunities but honestly it's not worth it. The salaries haven't increased significantly and when considering PPP they have actually decreased. I hope the situation improves.

[@dkir3829]

If you are comparing salaries with Norway/Denmark etc...obviously salaries not great, but in Engineering/construction, salaries have increased. 2018 - grad salary for engineer was 20K GBP, now grads can demand 30K GBP

[@roasthunter]

@@dkir3829 we pay grads well over 30k a year, this is in reality for people with no experience but potential.

[@dkir3829]

@@roasthunter this is almost an Australian grad salary which is very good for a British grad

[@roasthunter]

@@dkir3829 £30k is pretty good for a 21 year old who has no experience. Having said that the issue is that they won't get much property now with that kind of salary as property values are so high.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

You would have had Automatic Right to Remain ! Why didn't you get that ?

[@momo8200]

The good start to the UK is 1) education, a revamp closer to German education focusing on emerging skills of the future. 2) Infrastructure, increase investment in everything from faster, accessible internet to better rail. 3) Seek closer relations with the EU single market, perhaps a better trade deal that includes financial services etc..

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

Financial services is the reason the uk left the eu. They did not want to comply to new eu regulations. An agreement that sees the return of fnancial services to the uk again is just not going to happen. It is moving into the eurozone now and the eu is never allowing that trend to reverse again. Especially not to a non-eu country.

[@markanthony3275]

"If you get woke...you go broke". And Britain is "woke".

[@HShango]

@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 Spot on. It is way too late for the Uk to make amends when the tories screwed that up like hell already.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

@@HShango it is just common sense. If you make rules to combat something problematic to society and then the country that specificly specialises in and invented what you want to combat decides to pack up and leave to not have to abide by those rules, would you let them have it again? Especially when they are still outside of the jurisdiction of your rules? For the rest no bridges have been burned yet i think. The EU members have all been very patient with the uk and have just let the tories be. Even after all the threats, foul play and attempts to sabotage the eu/uk relationship the eu has kept it's calm and simply responded professionally to all the stupidity comming from the uk. This was almost certainly done to not poison the relation with the UK. Governments are temporary, aliances exist across generations. Eventually the tories will be gone and some presumably more capable set of leadership will replace them when the public comes to it's senses. At that point things can be picked up again without hard feelings either side and we can work together again to a better future for all of us. Allowing the tories to burn all bridges and turn eu/uk relations toxic they will have won and have gotten their way. The EU has time on it's side and can afford to wait for them to simply disapear.

[@johns5558]

I would say: 4) Watch out for excessive corporatism. this is the tangible bad-side from the US alliance (aside from various not-so-legitimate wars). Many EU countries are simply more employee friendly, and that matters alot. 5) Consider whether the monarchy is correlated or causal in this equation. The UK Monarchy seems to hold such a special place, but Im not convinced of its utility, spirit or role. Also true of the power of the UK and American press. Better if Brits find a better footing of self-determination rather than a notion of sovereignty based on the monarchy. Sovereignty based on true self determination - as the acts in WWII truly were.

[@rwksasc]

I love Liz Truss. She brought the greatest change to the UK economy in the shortest amount of time. She’s our inspiration that idiots can also become leaders. We need more like her in the UK.

[@R1ckmister]

By making everyone homeless? Yeah …. thanks for the discounted energy but I can’t now afford my mortgage? 😂 (I don’t have a mortgage)

[@tsilochr]

Expat living & working in London, always feeling I'm running behind the London pace, often listening to France's work life balance, and many jokes told here about french worker strikes, I'm surprised to hear the average French worker productivity is ~20% higher than UK. I understand average includes data points from all around the country, but from my London-only experience, I'm almost shocked

[@anotheracademicwithhornrim3247]

GVA per job in London is about £78k compared with £50k in urban areas excl London and £40k in rural areas. London may aswell be a different country tbh

[@HShango]

@@anotheracademicwithhornrim3247 Exactly, it is literally a country within a country that's in a union (UK), I have always felt that london can literally deal with the global economy without england and the rest of the UK. London should be a city-state.

[@luzboroughlane7948]

I read an article about productivity - there are two main reasons for the reported difference between UK and France: Half of the difference is because of the way the French measure productivity; they ignore eg tea breaks, but the British include their's. Secondly, it's so difficult to sack French workers that businesses have a strong incentive to use less of them. Now that the UK has less chance to import cheap labout from E Europe, you will expect to see UK productivity grow strongly.

[@jasc4364]

So the British exceptionalism means actually that the country is in decline, contrary to most EU countries. All the fuss about leaving the nefarious EU is so embarrassing today and still most Britons don’t realize this and hate the EU.

[@Scruffed]

What I can tell from the recent polls on this issue is that over 60% of the UK population now think Brexit was a bad idea, but (with the current electoral system) there's no party they can vote for that is offering anything that could meaningfully change the UK's relationship with the EU for the better, let alone rejoining.

[@jimbod9116]

Remarkable how this downturn coincides almost perfectly with the conservative government, not.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

In 2008 in Australia instead of austerity the Labor government gave every recipient of a government payment $900 with the instruction to go out and spend! Which they did and so the GFC was shrugged off.

[@roasthunter]

@@SirAntoniousBlock the UK did it with COVID, then people wonder why inflation went through the roof, money dilution, more money in the economy combined with energy price surge.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

@@roasthunter True, same in Australia, people who were unemployed or weren't allowed to work were paid the average wage for a 3 day week which in some cases meant a pay increase, that and difficulty of supply caused inflation but nothing like in the UK.

[@roasthunter]

@@SirAntoniousBlock One of the main drivers of inflation here, other than dilution of money through covid and money printing, has been energy prices but that's coming back down, petrol was touching £2/litre but that's down below £1.50/litre. Gas wholesale was up massively but that's dropped back and it will feed through in the next few months. Inflation in the UK isn't very different from US or mainland Europe.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

@@roasthunter Well no, the US and Aus are around 6-7% and the UK and EU rate is around 10%, wages growth is another big factor. Petrol is about twice the price in the UK as it is in Aus.

[@stepneye1165]

Don’t agree with much of this, UK productivity per capita declined because EU freedom of movement allowed in an unlimited supply of low skilled labour at the expense of higher skilled migration from elsewhere in the world. There was no incentive for business to invest to improve productivity when cheap labour could boost profits for lower risk and capital outlay. The USA’s success was built on attracting talent from abroad e.g. look at the number of Indian born CEOs of mega tech companies. The UK is still an attractive global destination and no reason why this cannot happen here. Foreign students will now find it much easier to remain and work in the UK for example, there has been a significant increase in migrants from India since Brexit and one can expect investment and trade relationships to follow.

[@simonromijn3655]

Could it be that continental countries have been catching up with the UK in respect to specialist services mentioned by Duncan Weldon? I was staggered by the extent to which London dominated these sectors in the 1990s and early 2000s. The catch up in these services may have started 10 years ago and is accelerating with Brexit. Another issue not raised by Weldon is the manner in which the UK has struggled with economic disparities. Continental counties seem better at equipping young people from less advantaged backgrounds with skills to make a good living. Weldon touched on this when here referred to Germany's vocational training.

[@Jay_Johnson]

They may be catching up on productivity within those industries (I don't know per-industry productivity figures) but overall productivity is already worse.

[@cormackeenan8175]

Weldon says, when the British economy is a car etc. I say when the British economy is a car it’s a Reliant Robin quixotic and prone to topple over at the first sign of a bumpy Road.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

Britain is the yappy little dog that has caught up to the EU car.

[@ravenseft]

A ponzi scheme in other words. Reliant Robins ironically first came out when Britain was a more equal society with a stronger manufacturing base.

[@paulslater9061]

You mean was sold off to other countries and there's nothing left to sell except the health service

[@uweinhamburg]

There still are some schools and public roads...

[@jjbiggmann5576]

NO. STOP BLAMING , "OTHER COUNTRIES"..

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

@@uweinhamburg And I believe the blood of their babies is quite tasty.....

[@marianhunt8899]

That's gone to the rapacious health insurance industries already. Expect to be bankrupted my medical bills, even with insurance. Ask Americans if you don't believe me.

[@abraxas1983]

great interview, very prepared. I would have never imagined the UK to decline in such a way. the example with Italy was interesting, the difference is that they are anchored and part of the EUROzone which keeps them away, at least for now, from terrible turbolences.

[@frankstocker5475]

I left the UK during the winter of discontent. Nothings changed.

[@mixodorians12]

In my Borough, in the Welsh valleys only 19% of the iron steel and coal jobs (and jobs that supplied these industries)have been replaced since the era of Thatcher. We are looking at a 81% decline, that is mirrored all over the country. But because we look at Britain as a whole, and expect people to travel 3 hours a day to work, you can ignore it.

[@roasthunter]

No need to travel 3 hours a day if you move, that's what people living in Poland did in their millions when they came to the UK.

[@bmmaaate]

@@roasthunter I know of a guy that drove back to Poland every weekend just to kiss his girlfriend.

[@mitchyoung93]

@@bmmaaate I hope he got more than a kiss.

[@mitchyoung93]

@@roasthunter I kinda think that a government priority should be to spread development, recovery and prosperity across the whole of a country...that would help with rents in the few 'primate' cities.

[@roasthunter]

@@mitchyoung93 how does a government do that?

[@tobiwan001]

Productivity in France, Germany and the US is already 25% higher than in the UK. And living standards are also already higher.

[@yingyang1008]

This has always been the case - even in the 1960s, not long after WWII, Germany was miles ahead of Britain

[@glike2]

UK seems like a great role model of what not to do

[@007JHS]

The last 170 years, industrial revolution? Workaday Brits never shared in that. Their experience was one of the worst slums and grinding poverty (read the first 100 or so pages of, The Fatal Shore,' by Robert Hughes. Entry to the EEC and EU saw genuine improvements in the standard of living for workaday folk... then we were infected with Brex**it and the grinding decline set in once more.

[@ev.c6]

Maybe being in the EU wasn't a a perfect solution for Britain, but leaving it was for certain the worst thing they could have done. They may be able to recover and come to pre Brexit levels, but that will take decades. If I were a milenial in Britain I would be very pissed with future prognostics.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

Why wasn't it? What else could you do once your empire was gone but you could to trade with one of the wealthiest markets in the world right on your doorstep?

[@gethinhooper3671]

You mean levels in 2015? -I think you need to go look at the data. Milenials couldn't buy property without parental help before 2016. But don't let that get in the way..

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

It wasn't a perfect solution for britain because it kept fighting it at every turn possible because of silly nonsensical fears and pettyness. The eu could have worked for the uk just as it does for the rest of europe if it stoped believing it is special and better then everyone else.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

@@gethinhooper3671 that's random. Yet has totally nothing to do with what he was saying lol.

[@ericr4b]

No need to produce anything if house prices continue to pay all the bills

[@sanatandharma4435]

I left the UK in 2019 for a job in N.Spain. I love the UK and its countryside, I miss the cycling and my siblings, but I am allowing my 13 year old daughter to take advantage of the European continent and to learn and live another language. It has not been easy but I think it was the right choice. A major decision to move was based on the attitude of our political elite who do not have a clue about anything. I saw grossly ego driven puffed up twits who saw British sovereignty as meaning a small minded, tiny island that matched their imperialistic constrained ideology..

[@hovefactually7505]

How Starmer can say 'there is no case for rejoining the EU' is beyond me. Isn't increasing prosperity/alleviating poverty a case in itself?

[@anonnymous4684]

He means politically, rather than financially. If he starts talking about rejoining the EU, the right wing press will have a field day in painting him as a remainer who wants to 'betray' the 'will of the people'.

[@ben_9134]

About 40% of my monthly income is spent on rent. The housing crisis is the biggest drag on investment, personal development, economic productivity and growth this country has seen since WW2.

[@andrewwalsh2755]

Who knew that increasing population, combined with money laundering of dirty money from Russia and Israel etc into UK property market... would lead to house price inflation and misery for many? (Well done Tony Blair!... Kier Starmer is just waiting to follow in your footsteps... 😱)

[@Brit_Toolmaker]

Yes well that's all well and good, but rental income with the double bubble of serf-paid equity, is for the middle classes (vis a vis today's political class of both colours) a state of financial nirvana, they're not letting go of that in a hurry. See how Cherie Blair behaved when the tax rules were adjusted for proof.

[@suckmyartauds]

I'm curious to see the statistics about the rent burden in UK vs EU vs USA (where I'm from). It seems to be a problem in every rich country but I don't know if its technically worse in UK

[@giansideros]

Don't forget that ultimately employers have to pay this rent in the form of wages, with which speculators and landlords have been profiting from. So as long as rent remains high and Brexit is creating barriers, then manufacturers will struggle to justify investing capital in the UK when the cost of labour is ever rising due to ever rising mortgages and rents.

[@stevenfarrall3942]

Yup. And that has zero to do with Brexit. That's government policy failure from forever but accelerating from 1997. At the back of it is very bad money and a policy of subsidising land owners.

[@pleiadesneptunes]

I live in the Southwest of London, not in a poor part of town. A number of my friends are unemployed now (used tomwork in the City) and a couple have lost their smallish but nicely profitable businesses, and had to dismiss all of their staff (one for ex selling upmarket children‘s clothes online, sourced from Italy and France). It got very expensive doing business, and sales dropped by over 20% since people have less money) Brexit = The Destroyer. And for WHAT???

[@bigbensmith9504]

Who implements trading regulations? The political scum for an obvious objective. It is a choice not an automatic result of regaining sovereignty. They are destroying the economy on purpose through any means possible including the bug scam which involves depopulation too. Destruction of small and medium business is an aim not a result of incompetant govt. Until people get feisty over what is happening it will continue to go somewhere very dark.

[@creepybastard3165]

I'll tell you why. Because the majority of the people here are working class who were all suffering. The reason they were suffering was because of the unlimited constant supply of cheap East European labour. And working class people asked them selves this question before voting. How is it in a working class persons interests to Compete with cheap East European labour.

[@tonivaripati5951]

Now your friends know how people in deprived areas up north feel!

[@lauriemayne7436]

Well, it could be payback for what we did to Assange. You can't have your cake and eat it. Lack of principle has its cost.

[@christianfaust5141]

I absolutely agree that you should focus on your strength. And I want to add you have one big advantage that no other European and most of the countries in the world have, and that's your language. Why can I as a German listen to your very decent and elaborated thoughts about Britain as if it were my own mother tongue. Why the most spoken and written language in EU Parliament is English and not French or German? But some things I can only recommend to change in your view respectively to accept: The Great Empire has gone and with that also the time of "Splendid Isolation". Independence and freedom are great values but in an interconnected world which needs actually more collaboration than ever independence has its price. But anyhow, you are not alone with your problems, e.g. that the wealth of our societies is not good spread among the different groups of society, that's really a very global problem. Corruption is not only a Russian problem, it's probably the worst infection of humans at all. I see also very comparable situation between Germany and Britain regarding the education sector. You have very renowned Universities for sure, but you face the same problems in education in the primary schools. These problems are partially related because there are not enough teachers anymore but moreover I see the problem with education is caused by the missing or even not existing chances of growing from lower classes to higher "levels". The best way to reach higher "levels" is to marry "accordingly". So we are back to "glory" time of middle age. But maybe the best time is ahead of us. Let's focus e.g. on green Energy, you have really very high ecological potential with your island and here also software will be a big part of the success story (key word smart grids). Best regards from Germany.

[@johns5558]

nice response.

[@oligoon]

It would be interesting to see whether the downturn in the UK economy was general or just in finance. Working in engineering I haven't seen a major change in the need to drive efficient production since 2008.

[@samseal8611]

Here's a clue as to why this country is circling the drain... when was the last time you saw an engineer or a scientist on "Question Time"?

[@ohyeah2816]

A young relative of mine decided to live and work in Singapore. No intention of coming back if he can help it.

[@eddielasowsky7777]

Good

[@nobull9541]

Hey, little Englander. Why don't YOU leave?

[@nickkacures2304]

The wealth disparity is as insane in Great Britain 🇬🇧 as it is in the states and Brexit didn’t help when politicians and their supporters in the media rewrite the tax codes to favor the few you get dysfunctional dystopian outcomes

[@sb8163]

He gives a misleading picture of the history of how Britain became rich. Other countries were plundered by Britain and their people exploited For example they broke treaties they signed with Ireland, destroyed Ireland's trade and industry through their policies, and kept people in abject poverty through a regime of military force Read any book by writers travelling through Ireland when it was part of the richest empire in the world and the descriptions of the conditions are horrendous Eg. this description of the contrast between the English landlords and their Irish tenants by Gustave de Beaumont who travelled through Ireland, a decade before the 'Great Famine', in the mid 1830s: were he to recall the scenes of sadness and desolation he has witnessed, to repeat the howlings and yells of despair he has heard, were he required to relate the anguishing tone of a mother's voice refusing a portion of food to her famishing children; and if, in the midst of such extreme misery, he were required to portray the insulting opulence which the rich ostentatiously displayed to all eyes.. the sumptuous and indolent life of the wealthy landlord.. who every day gives his dogs the food of a hundred families, and leaves those to perish by hunger who support him in this life of luxury and pride.. he feels the pen would fall from his hands.. Gustave de Beaumont also predicted the emergence of an Irish revolutionary party if the English government failed to introduce political reforms, that MP Daniel O'Connell was at that time peacefully campaigning for Not only did the English government fail to introduce reforms, they suppressed O'Connell's peaceful political campaign by banning his meetings, sending two warships and 3000 troops to Dublin, and imprisoning O'Connell in a rigged trial with a packed jury. Rotten to the core The Sinn Féin party did emerge and won a landslide victory in the last all-Ireland general election in 1918. After Irish independence the British regime continued their history of failing to introduce political reforms in Northern Ireland

[@ogaram]

"After Irish independence the British regime continued their history of failing to introduce political reforms in Northern Ireland" - The crime was partition itself. As you mention, the democratic mandate existed for an independent Ireland. There was no mandate for partition, just an empire annexing the most industrialised part of Ireland. It has caused so much unnecessary pain.

[@gedog77]

Could we support Duncan in taking up a formal government role? I think we really need his thinking.