Brexit: The UK Is So Vain

In this new Federal Trust video John Stevens and Brendan Donnelly discuss the recent report commissioned by the French and German governments on the future governance of the European Union. They conclude that the conclusions of this report have been grotesquely misreported in the British media; and that political reactions to this misreporting have, not for the first time in the UK’s European debate, only compounded the confusion.
SPEAKERS
Brendan Donnelly is the Director of the Federal Trust and a former Conservative MEP.
John Stevens Chair of the Federal Trust and an analyst and commentator on economic affairs.
ABOUT THE FEDERAL TRUST
The Federal Trust is a research institute studying regional, national, European and global levels of government. It has always had a particular interest in the European Union and Britain’s place in it. The Federal Trust has no allegiance to any political party. It is registered as a charity for the purposes of education and research.
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#rejoineu #brexit #euro

[@Roque-Cachamuiña-gs1wd]

When will the British understand that BREXIT in Europe is a closed issue. I think that the vast majority of citizens of the European Union are very happy with the departure of the United Kingdom. We have not gotten rid of the grumpy and unsupportive partner.

[@careytitan9097]

We have gotten rid of the arrogant continentals who always voted us down and took all our money and housing.

[@minimalist279]

Who wants a grumpy, complaining, never satisfied and up themselves neighbour?

[@theelephantintheroom8016]

It would seem the Brits have underestimated their own unimportance!

[@taffyman6089]

British media excitement stems from desperation and need. It avoids the need to denigrate Brexit itself.

[@Korschtal]

I'm glad someone in the UK is pointing out that the UK can't accidentally slide back into the EU: when the UK finally applies to join as a third country I think a lot of people will be shocked, even offended that the EU's members aren't going to say "Yes of course, here's the red carpet" but "Wait over there and read the criteria; we'll let you know when we're ready to consider the application."

[@johnbrereton5229]

Dont worry Korschal no one accept Starmer the King Remoaner and his band of halfwits is contemplating joining the EU Titanic just before it sinks .👍🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Korschtal]

@@johnbrereton5229 The EU is "about to sink"; just like it was 'just about to sink' for the last few decades...

[@johnbrereton5229]

@@Korschtal The EU in now in recesssion and while its share of world trade in 1980 was 30% its now in 2023 only 16% , so its sunk to almost HALF . Four of its members are also in recesssion, including two of its top economies, Germany and the Netherlands. It's also under its latest fraud investigations with many arrests so far. The CPTPP trading block that Britain has just joined has overtaken the EU and continues to grow while the EU continues to decline. A sinking ship is therefore a good metaphor to describe it.

[@channelsixtyeight068_]

If the EU has any sense, they will never allow the UK to enter the EU as a member state. It will have to break up first, so the EU can pick and choose who they want. It's amusing to see the UK behave so arrogantly from a position of weakness.

[@stevenbmxbandit]

REALLY, The EU would love to have us back, They want our money, Well they are never gonna get it, we can trade with whoever we want, While europe can't, Europeans are still being led like lost sheep.

[@Centurion101B3C]

Unfortunately we in Europe are nearing to the understanding that we are in essence better off without the UK messing up the works. Understand me right, I love and admire the UK, but UK never was an overly constructive participant in European affairs. Calling it halfhearted is in my view a grave understatement if one observed the behaviours of British representatives in the European council. Consider us Europeans as being a bit churlish when confronted with UK overtures to rejoining, but here the old 'Once bitten, twice shy' certainly applies. In fact we are doing quite nicely here in Europe on our own. Thank you very much! We feel no overarching requirement or desire for reintroduction of (what we could possibly see as) UK obstructive behaviour.

[@MrSmegfish]

Good ......nice to see Germany going it alone on a trade deal. Coming to us...whod have thought it. EU is sitting on a debt mountain. You didnt stress test very well and exports into the UK have declined . I wonder why ?

[@thehobgoblin9790]

@@markb9983 400 EUR billion in outstanding EU debt as of May 2023. Yes, we got what we wanted, and are quite happy. Why do you Europeans keep going on about it?

[@thehobgoblin9790]

@@markb9983 And what gives you the impression that we give a rats arse about your views. We can accept what has happened, why can't you pro Europeans. Just Because you can't roam at will. anymore. However i expected some sort of comment about the EU debt that you said was untrue.

[@yogikarl]

German here - to me the British fox is trying hard to change his foxiness . he may not succeed .

[@smoozerish]

A period of reflection outside the EU will be beneficial for the UK. Only then will they realise in time the true scale of what they have lost. Not just economically but politically too. The ability to influence and shape the world was never so great as they had with EU membership. Ultimately the UK will rejoin but on less favorable terms than they had before.

[@stevenbmxbandit]

You Remainers are so sad and mad that you lost the referendum, Dillusional to think we will or should ever want to go back, Remainers say the EU is good for Britain, WHEN what you really mean is, Its good for you Remainers. If you lot can't put up and shut up about brexit, You always have a choice, Accept the democratic vote WHICH WAS to LEAVE the EU, or move to Europe

[@cws2355]

@@stevenbmxbandityou won. Get over it and please list all the wonderful benefits of your ridiculous deluded stance.

[@kz11377]

Britain HAD a place in the EU. Never cooperated with other member states, always opposed on every proposal and eventually gave it's position up & left because it didn't feel "independent" enough. Goodbye. So long & good riddance. The EU doesn't need dead weight, it needs cooperation. That's how progress is achieved. Other countries now are waiting in line.

[@TheLuminousOne]

😭

[@gamerxplanetx8637]

Nigel Farage singlehandedly screwed the UK

[@stevenbmxbandit]

YEAH, WAITING IN LINE TO LEAVE.

[@rowellwilkinsonwilkinson5235]

Britain has been prosperous twice in its existence: When it had its empire and when it was in the EU. All other times it was fighting some war somewhere. The empire ain't coming back.

[@keithmoore5224]

So the french germans never went to war never knew that 😅😅😅

[@stevenbmxbandit]

Yes it will, AND THAT SCARES YOU REMAINERS TO DEATH🇬🇧🇭🇲🇬🇸🇰🇾🇲🇸🇳🇿🇵🇳🇹🇨🇹🇦🇸🇭🇹🇻🤣

[@TheHoveHeretic]

​@@stevenbmxbanditdream on

[@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo]

When there is a stable, lasting, non-partisan majority among the English for rejoining the EU (incl. Schengen and free movement of labour) and for abandoning the Pound and all the perks the UK had, then the EU might be willing to look at an application. But any realist will see that this will not be the case for at least a generation.

[@MENSA.lady2]

Srveral generations.

[@verttikoo2052]

UK can’t join the Single Market. EU will not allow it.

[@Mar-enfrance]

Like - we're divorced, but can't i just have some extra benefits pretty please? Ridiculous.

[@TheHoveHeretic]

​@2aph0d_b33blebr0xyeah ... just love watching collapsing infrastructure, the flatlining economy and total incompetents running what's left into the ground. So much better than, say, progress.

[@yogikarl]

I begin to enjoy more and more how the British are shooting themselves repeatedly and insistingly into their several feet - they might have even more than two

[@dmoreyn]

Love hearing these two perfectly sensible men. Wish we had politicians who thought as they do and had half their wisdom.

[@Lucid.dreamer]

Sensible? They are obsessing over a political experiment we've left. We're not going to rejoin it. So forget it.

[@yogikarl]

Can we describe that British wife : married to a European husband , having a Posh-life , being bored , demanding a divorce to be free to roam the streets , getting shocked by the harshness of Street life , coming back after the divorce - demanding the house-keys back - but not a full remarriage ?

[@verttikoo2052]

It’s worse than that. UK tried to break down the European Union 🇪🇺 So if the ex spouse tries to burn down the house then there is absolutely no way coming back.

[@yogikarl]

@@verttikoo2052 when they entered 1973 into the common market their only purpose was to spoil the French German cooperation they never intended to contribute anything

[@verttikoo2052]

@@yogikarl If possible to contribute even less than nothing. If possible derail anything that could move the EU 🇪🇺 forward.

[@verttikoo2052]

@2aph0d_b33blebr0x I don’t have to dream anything because you truly are out 🥳

[@chrmallia]

What is Brexit? We, in the EU, have forgotten about it....rot in peace

[@fredcarson2791]

Chrmallia. Good! We in the UK have no reason to want you to remember us. We, an island nation, are quite capable of making our own way. No, we will not rot.

[@zoranmiletic8431]

Stay there ​@@fredcarson2791

[@windowman929]

Britain is now a competitor to the European union, and a very weak one at that.

[@archiebald4717]

Germany has been in recession for nine months. Seven other EU member countries are in recession. By contrast, the UK is doing pretty well.

[@dalogan7290]

@@archiebald4717sure pretty well, do you live in the same cavern osama used to be?

[@archiebald4717]

@@dalogan7290 Germany in recession for nine months. Seven other EU countries in recession. Which cave do you live in?

[@dalogan7290]

@@archiebald4717 UK cave my dude. The UK.

[@archiebald4717]

@@dalogan7290 Moi aussie

[@andressanchezcasado4433]

Think britons are pissing into the wind

[@britinbrazil7912]

The UK is irrelevant to the EU and to the rest of the world. The only reason it still has a relationship with the US and the UN is because it has nuclear weapons. It is gradually sliding down the league of rich countries and the populace is suffering poverty as never before. Brexit was by far the biggest mistake any modern country has ever inflicted on itself. Outside of the UK, the politics and chenanegans of the elite really has no interest to the world. The only thing that came out of Brexit was the British financial institutions managed to protect their offshore divisions and by that the rich investors both UK and international. That was the whole point of Brexit.

[@Szahra87]

So you’re an immigrant in Brazil?😂

[@britinbrazil7912]

@@Szahra87 Yes I am, guess the name gives it away lol! 1997 came here for work, decided to emigrate in 2000.

[@bikeman9899]

I wonder why the basic tenets of the EU, i.e., peace and prosperity through trade, is so poorly understood in Britain compared to other European nations. The British lens filters everything into taxes , rules or short term benefits. There's rarely any thought given to the bigger, strategic aims of peace and prosperity, which is the bulwark against war in Europe . It has worked. No major conflict in Europe since WW2, until RU invaded Ukraine, that is. Yes, there are rules coming from Brussels. But British representatives have in the past , played a great role in crafting these, which applied to everyone, not just Britain. In a future discussion, pls address how the City played a role in the earlier stages of Brexit, before the public campaign on spending, sovereignty and immigration. IMO, the only interest group to see any benefit from Brexit has been the financial niche business of managing money from dodgy despots and their kin. Every country has tax rules that seek to achieve some national advantage, e.g. Ireland, Netherlands, Luxembourg etc. But I Britain maintains de jure and de facto control of offshore territories where tax evasion is the primary activity and permits the fiction that Britain itself is free from money laundering activity. As i say this, the Netherlands still has some islands in the Caribbean, fully equipped with banks and money managers available for a fee. So Britain is not the only post colonial European nation, with offshore islands seeking a role in finance. The difference though appears to be the political influence of financial institutions in Britain is greater than Holland. As always, follow the money.

[@ThennikaCreations]

This could be explained by the word "narcissism" of the general public. They forget they are a tiny island, not an empire of "loot" anymore.

[@careytitan9097]

There has been 29 wars/civil wars and conflicts in Europe since WWII up to date-Russia vs Ukraine, they have never stopped, Europe has not been at peace because of the EU, NATO keeps the peace it also creates conflicts. see my other post for the rest.

[@jonasv.c.8924]

@@careytitan9097 Bikeman obviously meant that the EU is a peace project that prevents its Member States from declaring war on each other. He never meant to say that the EU guarantees peace outside EU territory (such as Ukraine or Armenia). International conflicts outside the EU's territory aren't the EU's responsibility. France, the German Empire, the British Empire, the Netherlands, the Austrian-Hungarian Empire etc. used to declare war on each other every generation. None of those countries have declared war on each other since they joined the EU and NATO. In these countries, the last generation that experienced the horror of war is the generation that lived through the Second World War. That's unique in these countries' history and something to be cherished very dearly. How on earth can you so casually shrug your shoulders about such an amazing privilege in times when millions of innocent Ukrainian citizens are experiencing the horrors of war?

[@careytitan9097]

@@jonasv.c.8924 The thing that keeps the peace between countries are called treaties, all countries have them, we do not need a European empire to keep the peace or to trade with each other. NATO countries do not declare war on each other, nothing to do with the EU at all, that is a fallacy.

[@jonasv.c.8924]

@@careytitan9097 It takes one crazy American President to withdraw the US from NATO and NATO will cease to exist. With no NATO (defence against external threats) and no EU (internal peace through close cooperation), the continent of Europe is back in a position that gave rise to so many devastating wars: countries with populations prone to incendiary war language because of the economic hardship they're going through and no military cooperation against external threats.

[@Mike.Muc.3.1415]

As long as the UK keeps on viewing the EU as the "Common Market" and not as the European Union it will be really hard to reintegrate the UK in the future. You can not be a member of the economic project without accepting the political & policy goals of it. The power triangle between London, Paris and Berlin was overall very good for Europe as long as the UK elites were interested in a common European future. UK's highly destructive tactics during Brexit destroyed a lot of trust on the continent.

[@geordiegeorge9041]

When I look at what has happened to the UK, I am so glad that I did not return to live there.

[@Sapper127]

Two of the countries in UK voted to remain, please stop saying UK when you mean England.

[@alfresco8442]

The percentage of Leave voters in Wales was every bit as high as it was in England. ...52% to 48%. Pretty hard to understand when it had signs everywhere proclaiming that such and such a project was funded by the EU. It just tries hard to pretend it wasn't so. Meanwhile, many cosmopolitan urban areas in England, such as my own home town of Liverpool were heavily in favour of Remain. I voted Remain,; but this is simply the facts.

[@mt508]

@@alfresco8442 As subsequent studies have shown, the Welsh leave vote was delivered by those identifying themselves as 'culturally English'.

[@brianmacadam4793]

While rejoining is a distant possibility, there are many things that CAN be done that will improve trade. Some actions are small and others more significant. Just a general focus on IMPROVING the mechanics of trade with the EU is an important step.

[@brianmacgabhann5630]

I'm sorry if this sounds like splitting hairs, but Britain cannot "rejoin" the EU, if by "rejoin" you mean turn the clock back to where it was prior to Britain leaving. Firstly, there is no mechanism for a country that has left the EU to reverse that exit. All a country can do is to apply afresh to join. This would require the consent of all 27 member states, (could well be 28 by the time any such application is made), and there are varying levels of enthusiasm about British membership. It is very unlikely that Britain will get all, or even any, of the sweet deals it had when it was a member, and so any new membership is likely to be on less favourable terms than those which pertained prior to Brexit. Secondly, the EU has not stood still since Britain left, and continues to evolve and develop. It could be another decade or more before Britain makes any application to join, and the EU may well be a different institution by then, (and any such evolution will have taken place without any British involvement, influence or input). As Heraclitus observed; you cannot step into the same river twice, because the river will have changed in the intervening period.

[@user-bb9mq8fv4v]

Europe united,Europe strong

[@PanglossDr]

This is just another example of the one and only thing the UK is good at, wishful thinking.

[@abbofun9022]

and a stunning level of exceptionlism

[@patricialeighton4516]

Angland and the English?

[@johnbrereton5229]

Yes we wish you would start thinking and stop talking claptrap 🤡

[@PanglossDr]

@@johnbrereton5229 Do I detect some projection here?

[@johnbrereton5229]

@@PanglossDr Why is this arousing you ? 🤭

[@billythedog-309]

Explain how a whole country can be vain, especially given that the referendum was won by the slimmest of margins.

[@billythedog-309]

@2aph0d_b33blebr0x Such a shame your so-called 'operation fear' turned out to be almost completely true, eh?

[@IljaWieselmann]

Rejoining is not on offer. It is not a gym membership. It will take a generation and. If changes in GB until the EU will even consider a request. Rejoining is not an option; stop talking about it. In the EU it is certainly not a subject, worthy of any time.

[@scottlenharth4200]

They're drip feeding the doctrine If the march in London over the weekend to re-join the European Union is anything to go by, then enthusiasm is draining as numbers were a fraction of that of previous marches despite the fine weather.

[@Paul-hl8yg]

We really do not want to rejoin the eu. We have our Right of Vote back because of Brexit. That's one thing all eu nations do not have! 🇬🇧

[@dwayenway]

​@Paul-hl8yg your right to vote? You have a monarchy and oligarchy, no democracy. You do not even have a constitution. Stay on your island we don't need you racist,subservient Island

[@ybkseraph]

Brexitards shouldn’t be upset - in any case UK will not be back in EU in their lifetime. Enjoy your Brexit to the fullest gents ! 😂

[@scottlenharth4200]

They're trying to drip feed the doctrine None of them mentioned the political sh!t-show going on behind the scenes in regards to the EU Migration Pact Bill with EU members eating themselves. No veto on this bill which was shoehorned through parliament despite the elected governments of Sweden,Poland, Czech Republic and Hungary all vehemently opposing this bill. This now means that the EU dictates the number of migrants each member state takes in. No mention of France and Germany refusing to take in migrants from Italy or Switzerland and Austria now imposing border checks on the Italian border. They know it's a complete and utter clown show 🤣

[@momo8200]

Until a solid majority of Brits are ready to embrace full EU membership it's probably best to focus inward. Like the crumbling concrete roofs, people dying from a malnourished NHS, 15 years of wage decline, skyrocketing cost of housing, high child and pensioner poverty etc. The list goes on.

[@stevenbmxbandit]

We leavers will never accept a dictatorship, You Remainers won't stop whinging and led by a donkey steve bray

[@verttikoo2052]

@@stevenbmxbanditYes. You will now have to cleanup the mess 💩 you created on your own. We 🇪🇺 will watch 🍿

[@uweinhamburg]

I think the multi-tier idea, nobody here in Germany talks about, is much more directed to countries like Ukraine and Albania than the UK. The countries EUrope really would like to join, Norway and Switzerland, are rich and healthy, the UK is neither.

[@MagereHein]

> countries like Ukraine and Albania than the UK. The three are much more similar than the UK likes to acknowledge.

[@Helvetica247]

Right. Another difference re Norway and Switzerland being that they were never in the EU to begin with, and did not go through the ridiculous unscrambling of an egg process of extrication to which the UK has subjected itself. But yes, it’s embarrassing that the UK has gone so far down, and quite unnecessarily so. (No musical pun intended this time).

[@Darca1n]

@@Helvetica247 Norway and Switzerland are both sort of in the EU though, last I checked. It's a bit of an odd thing, the schengen deal iirc.

[@Helvetica247]

@@Darca1n Schengen yes, but not in the EU, as both have rejected that in a few referenda. Norway is in the EEA of course, while the Swiss are not. Knowing both countries reasonably well (ancestry/ family/ living/ work) I can’t honestly say I’ve met many people in either country who would describe themselves as being “sort of in the EU”. That sounds like more of a British perspective to me ( all well and good of course). The choices both have made in these specific respects - i.e. specifically what mechanisms to join and not join - have been concerted, well thought- out, and well-tested in the public arena over many decades. In any case, neither are in the EU, and neither are showing any serious signs of joining any time soon, mainly for economic but also a host of cultural and historic reasons. Then again, so much is up for grabs in these crazy times.

[@uweinhamburg]

@@Helvetica247 Ok, Norway and Switzerland have never been in the EU, but they are EFTA members, one of the other clubs the UK has left when it became clear that they couldn't play their King of my Castle games...

[@tonylavery8298]

Good to see a mention of the Skibereen Eagle. It still amuses us in Ireland

[@bertoverweel6588]

Guy Verhofstad said ther will be no cherry picking so I wonder what Starmer want's, he doesn't want back to the single market or costums union of the EU. We don't miss the English exeptionalism.

[@maxharbig1167]

The foreseen TCA review in 2025 is exactly that, i.e a review/audit of the implementation status and the parties' compliance with it. It will absolutely not, in any sense ,be a renotiation or involve substantial changes to the TCA. The EU has moved on as Barnier himself has said recently and it is no longer the EU that the UK left and by the time the UK puts in an application to rejoin who knows what the membership criteria will be? Besides, the feeling appears to be that the E has more important EU specific matters to devote time. energy and resources to rather than re-opening any discussions with the UK over and above its implementation and compliance with the agreement that is currently in force- .

[@blackdogbarking]

I disagree about UK needing a say british people would be much safer with its economic affairs in the hands of foreign politicians. With our bogus democracy delivering idiots like boris and truss with a huge majority, I would be much happier knowing that other sensible folk who bother to vote had chosen the economic experts.

[@novainvicta]

Very interesting debate but it's the opinion of two academics in their latter years. Same will be true in a decade in Europe. 48% of us were totally against leaving the EU that's Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish and English voters (London overwhelmingly voted to remain). Britain is now outside the EU and in a far worse place than if it had remained within the EU. However you don't suddenly stop having intelligent and savvy people who know how to develop new medicines, new scientific research, trade off the global money markets and compete on a global stage. The EU would want Britain as part of NATO to defend them if under attack from another country after all Britain spends at least 2% of its GDP on defence unlike many EU countries. However if the vitriol like Im reading here is typical (I don't believe it is) then why would the British Armed Forces want to defend the EU in a crisis? The ultra far right in Britain forced us out of the EU so the 1.5% of the richest people like Jacob Rees-Mogg, Rishi Sunak etc could carry on avoiding taxes and gearing the system to the super rich. It was never about "taking back control" for the majority but taking it for a minority. Unfortunately we still have deluded people who think Brexit was a good idea including some people within the EU. It isn't and never was.

[@stevenbmxbandit]

When Reform UK Win the next G.E, We the leavers will want brexit finished, The ECHR,ECJ, and ALL European laws will be gone Then we will bring back the act of treason, Then lock the traitors up, Reform UK will stop the boats and deport those with no legal right to be here.

[@archiebald4717]

It was not the "ultra far-right" that voted for brexit, in fact that so called ultra far right does not exist. The UK is not in a far worse place. Compared to Germany (nine months in recession) and seven other EU member States (still in recession), the UK is doing rather well.

[@Randy778]

Brits: Look how our insisdious plan to weaken them bears fruits! Continenters: After this endless self centered spectacle has come to a conclusion can we discuss important matters? EU Green Deal? Yes, one trillion € sound sensible? Go on...

[@Bran9]

You don't have to worry about getting into the SM because as you should all ready know that the only way into the SM is JOIN the EU, understood 😮

[@comments2840]

What are the chances of a re-marriage after divorce? Remember the drawn-out fight over the divorce terms? Even if the UK could re-join, it could only become a new and junior member. No chance to get back the major power it used to wield. Brexit was the best demonstration of the British "democracy" at work. A necessary and long overdue lesson, one that other countries can learn from.

[@highvolumepls]

More like British Liars at work

[@martinmcdonald4207]

Always great to tune into a brexit discussion with well informed adults and not the usual loud ignorance we usually get from the numpties.

[@PropagandasaurusRex]

And they speak proper English too.

[@abbofun9022]

Obviously the pain isn’t big enough

[@anssipasila8460]

As a lifelong anglophile I am sad to see Britain crumbling down.

[@JimmyC2024]

Isn't it ironic to hear so many people saying GB could or should re-join the EU. Would the EU want a country as a member when that country could vote in ten years to leave again, thus causing the disruption (NI Protocol etc.) all over again. I don't think so.

[@jpw6893]

Good

[@benjamindejonge3624]

The door is wide open

[@garyb455]

These facts are from the IMF. Over the last 20 years the UK and the EU have declined economically by 50% compared to the USA. That's why salaries haven't gone up and living standards have crashed, its the same all over Europe and the reason is because of the EU and its love of high taxes and bureaucracy. The average EU country is now poorer per head than every state in America bar Idaho and Mississippi. We need a lot less EU and a lot more USA !

[@marleneMS]

​@@benjamindejonge3624 in your dreams

[@JN-om6rw]

Forget about it not in a million years will the EU have UK back again .. full stop

[@PlanofBattle]

As Dean Acheson said a long time ago “Britain has lost an empire but not yet found a role”. It could have gravitated towards Europe where it had influence. Or it could gravitate towards its former dominions like Canada, Australia and NZ which begs the question whether these countries valued their sovereignty so little that they would seek closer links with the former centre of empire they diverged from in the first place. And then there is the US. 5 time more populous, many times more economically and politically dynamic. Above all the US pursues its own interests. The idea that Britain could have a relationship of equals with the US is laughable. Any UK politician promoting this idea is simply an agent for US corporate interests. Sadly the right wing dominated media in this country chooses to pass over the fact that UK interests to the US are a fly on their windscreen. Even more sadly, a large number of people in this country still swallow that nonsense and think they have regained “sovereignty”.

[@johnjeanb]

The recent visits on the continent (HM Charles III, K Starmer) were very warm and highlight the fact we (the EU) are not at war with the UK. On the other hand, the TCA can be slightly "improved" if the EU sees some benefits in it and OF COURSE as a prerequisite, the full application (execution) of past agreements (WA, NIP, TCA) and continuous CONVERGENCE can be VERIFIED. Appeasing words and lenient speeches WILL NOT bring back the UK into the EU, only an application to join the EU TOGETHER with a full compliance with the Copenhagen criterii and IN ABSENCE of any veto from any EU country will do. There will be NO WAIVERS OF ANY SORTS (too many EU countries would veto it) so it is the Euro, Schengen, full financial contribution (NO REBATE OF ANY KIND) I must say that I don't understand Starmer's position and final goals. What I see is that Labour has helped Tories to make Brexit happen and now it has a very fuzzy (incomprehensible) message. How could one expect Labour, later to submit an application to join the EU if it is not in its manifesto? ANYWAYS This is not a problem because the EU WON'T CONSIDER a UK application to join UNLESS clearly supported by BOTH key parties (Tory, Labour).

[@imastaycool]

There will not be a "United Kingdom" in a number of years in any case so this notion of the UK in its current form rejoining the EU is fantasy. Even Britain is breaking up, never mind the UK. Give Ireland back its occupied counties.

[@philspencelayh5464]

I remember joining and my life got better in every way, since we left the economy has gone down the pan illegal immigration has gone through the roof and I detect no improvement in any aspect of my life.

[@danielgavigan7606]

We do not want the UK back in the EU because of the past rude practices of British politicians when in the EU . Scotland and Wales may be acceptable because they do not suffer from that dreadful condition of hubris and havr no sence of chagrin of the English being booted out of France after the 100 Years War. North of Watford Gap is a land foreign to the Tory Government and is treated accordingly .. Possibly we will have devolution for the Midlands and the North.

[@novainvicta]

Please remember 48% of the population never voted to leave the EU including millions of English people. I created hundreds of jobs in the EU from the UK and have many friends in France, Germany, Italy & Poland. Engage the brain.

[@justsayen2024]

Closer alignment is the first step Veterinary standard agreements. The EU has stated it won't examine the TCA until 2026. Now that Britain has become a third country they're in direct competition by default.

[@samhartford8677]

May I correct you? The EU has said it will not examine the TCA in 2026, as in it won't be renegotiating the terms of the agreement. This also includes the veterinary agreement, because our assumption is that the Tories will cancel it and there will be a whole hullabaloo about it's relation to the CPTPP (that requires recognition of each others SPS rules if there is no scientific basis of not granting it). That is, maybe Labour can add into the TCA security cooperation or something, which is in the EU's interest. Otherwise, the UK is being held hostage by the next Tory government. That is, the UK will be in this state of affairs until the Tories are open to realignment in the legal sense, not just voluntary alignment that gives one no benefits. That is, all the changes to the TCA will have to be in the EU's interest, because we pay 1% of our GDP to have the power to do deals that are in our interest. We did not give upon our goals when you did.

[@Martini923]

🇪🇺 we say bye, don’t come back 😂😂

[@uweinhamburg]

When it comes to a realistic UK/EUrope relation, your channel seems to have a 3 steps forward 2 steps back momentum. I understand, in the very long run you will get there, but with the age of the two of you and mine that may be too late. Stay very realistic about any possible UK/EUrope relation, please! Joining EUrope will take more than 50 years, joining the Single Market or the Customs Union depends on membership of the EU. For the foreseeable future - out means out! The best the UK can get for the next few years - convergence to EU rules, taking over EU rules for taxes and financial services, become an open law taker!

[@nickdoughty518]

Agree. There is so much misunderstanding about the EU and a vastly inflated sense of our own importance. Despite our myriad domestic failures, I fear that realism is a thing of the past for UK politicians. And does singing 'Rule Britannia' every year help? It may have been the case once for a very short period of history but Suez ought to have taught us a lesson from which we wouldn't take heed.

[@PanglossDr]

There is only thing the UK is good at, wishful thinking.

[@didierlemoine6771]

Britain hs already the best trade deal it could get with EU :) now if Britain wants more, it will need to pay even more than when it was in :)

[@tesserakt54]

The deal we had as a full member was the best possible. It was tailor-made. When we join again those conditions are unlikely to be available. My country still has a lot to learn.

[@tonylavery8298]

Since the beginning of the push for Brexit and since it happened I've always said that it's advocates believed that they were going back into an empire. Everyone was just waiting for the firm smack of English rule. Unfortunately they didn’t ask anyone else who seemed to have a different idea of the way forward.

[@BigHenFor]

Britain is ruled by people who don't seem to have a grip on British Economic History. If they did, they might have a better strategic understanding of the way forward. They would be more aware of the trap we're in, and how to get out of it. But we are where we are. It's going to take a lot of pain and reflection, and realignment of our priorities - both political and economic before we'll be even ready to start.

[@tonylavery8298]

@@BigHenFor I quite agree but unfortunately no political party is willing to confront the long term problems whilst they are are only thinking of GE to GE which unfortunately only leads to short term thinking.

[@fabiopaolobarbieri2286]

A peculiarly apt instance of this kind of "Make Britain an empire again" fantasy is the current economic deal being negotiated with India. Current Indian popular culture hates the very memory of the Raj, and blows every possible British iniquity out of all proportion. The British imagine they are working with an old friend, not with a country whose public opinion would revel in any British humiliation.

[@tonylavery8298]

@@fabiopaolobarbieri2286 we did not come to Britain. Britain came to us.

[@markwelch3564]

I am willing to stick my neck out and make a prediction. We can get bilateral alignment on some of the areas previously offered during the withdrawal negotiations, but the negotiations will be very different now It won't be negotiating what we get - the UK will take what is offered, no options The negotiation will be how we prove alignment to the satisfaction of the EU, if there won't be checks at the borders

[@d.a.t.7723]

UK back into EEU...NEVER!!! We are much better of without Arrogant England!!!

[@JohnSmall314]

When the UK rejoins the EU it will be without arrogance but with repentance and a renewed enthusiasm for the European project.

[@cyberkraut5139]

Even as Remainers you vastly overestimate the importance of the UK. The idea that Europe has to get something for the UK that the special relationship remains is a fallacy. You are suffering severely of the Empire Withdrawal Sydrome. Once you are treating it everything else will slowly fall into place. Brexit and Rejoining is a non-issue in the EU. You wanted Brexit, you got it, that’s it.

[@andykettle653]

Thank you Brendan, hard facts that need reinforcing. The brexit disaster continues.

[@johnbrereton5229]

But only in your head Andy Pandy ! 🤭

[@mrbassquake5416]

I had a similar issue as I ride a brand of German built bike. I needed a back rack but the company couldn’t send it because of Brexit red tape.. before Brexit I could order these parts freely and I did…

[@mrbassquake5416]

@@John-fg9ov ha ha great reply for a bot… this A I has begun to master sarcasm 🤣

[@mrbassquake5416]

I wouldn't say German engineering is superior but the bikes from there are pretty good. I have a few Beautiful British Bikes too and a few American ones.. They all have their merits @2aph0d_b33blebr0x

[@roelkomduur8073]

Again, you lot thinks that France and Germany are the only countries in the EU....

[@Torfmoos]

I wonder when ever i hear about rejoining the EU if i m the only on who realise that it does not matter if you are Prime Minister or King, that it s not in your Hand. 27 sovereign contrys deside to let the UK in or not.Not mention that there are some criterias that had to be forfilled at the first time. And not long ago the UK decided to leave and after leaving only blame 27 States ( the EU as global ) for their own missery. No wonder that the Idea of rejoining only be a point in the UK. So first do your shit done before asking to rejoin the club.

[@voteloonydotcom]

I see this and think about the board at Woolworths ... Returning to Europe cap in hand will be the final humiliation of the nation; Well done everybody 👋👋👋

[@RealMash]

​@@John-fg9ov Whereas Brexitists had the brilliant Idea to try< to extort their neighbors and failed? So being a pirate is a noble way? You know how most pirates ended...

[@voteloonydotcom]

I know ... sad isn't it. Starmer might do it too@@John-fg9ov

[@charlesregan9917]

Making a good Christmas lets have an election at Chrismas; then can I get my freedom of movement back please, asap.

[@trailsandbeers]

leave the UK and get residency somewhere that has freedom of movement, UK won't be back in EU any time soon...

[@Redf322]

@@trailsandbeersif you get residency of an EU country you do not get freedom of movement. Only full citizenship can give you that, and that takes a long time, and a lot of money.

[@trailsandbeers]

@@Redf322 Once inside EU you never get stopped or passport stamped/checked so can move around freely but yeah a passport is better if you want to work or stay long term in different countries.

[@howarddavies8937]

It's called hubris, unfortunately it can be followed by nemesis.

[@Oil2024]

Addendum: the UK is so IN vain...

[@alanclark1760]

An apposite view of the current situation, certainly from our viewpoint as Brefugees, now resident in Alcante, and dividing our time between our home and holiday gite in the Poitou Charente.

[@Mr.barba97]

Thanks for you work. Cheers from 🇮🇹

[@pricklysubject9120]

One thing that is for certain the UK won"t get back in easily after the abysmal Brexit and the reprehensible way the Tories have dealt with Brexit you leavers got it so wrong wake up Europe does not lose any sleep over the loss of the UK!!!!!

[@stevenbmxbandit]

You remainers are so sad and dillusional because you lost ,GET OVER YOURSELVES AND THE EU. WE WON, YOU LOST just stop being a sad sweet dreamer, NO Ifs or Buts We left. Remainers are Traitors to the UK, You could always move to europe

[@ab-ym3bf]

@@stevenbmxbandit the maturity and wisdom is dripping of your reply. /s

[@SonOfViking]

Associate membership, in no matter what form it might ever emerge, would still have to involve two basic elements - a treaty between the two parties, and one moreover in which the associate party becomes subject to the ECJ in all matters relating to EU law as it applies to the Single Market. The UK, if it has proven anything beyond doubt in recent years, has demonstrated that it had always seen itself exempt from elements of that jurisdiction whenever it selfishly decided to do so, and that it has enormous problems anyway understanding what exactly an international treaty means in terms of obligation, trust and legality. When it comes to Starmer and the TCA - the EU has repeatedly let it be known via statements coming from within the Commission, EU Council members and the president of the European Parliament, that the existing articles are not up for renegotiation but that it is open to adding new ones relating to matters not already addressed within it - provided this is to the benefit of the EU as well as the UK. However first the UK has to demonstrate that it can actually fulfil those terms already agreed within the treaty as it stands. Spoiler alert - it hasn't yet. The word "narcissism" was used to summarise UK attitudes towards all things "EU" in the video. It is hard to disagree with that, but I would suggest that the perception abroad of the UK goes even further - "narcissism with extreme prejudice" might fit the bill more exactly. And no one in their right mind would ever want to enter into any type of dependency on trusting such an individual in real life, let alone an organisation founded ultimately on such a basic requirement. Far from "association", I reckon in the UK's case the term "barge pole" might be more appropriate.

[@SonOfViking]

@2aph0d_b33blebr0x After which they are referred to the ECJ and suffer whatever consequences come their way. Give me an example however where they have unilaterally exempted themselves from that court's jurisdiction when it suited them. As opposed to the UK, who as a member did it several times. I don't think you understood my original point - but then that does not surprise me if you're British.

[@JohnSmall314]

It's not the UK that's so vain. It's England that has an overinflated opinion of itself.

[@keithemerson6002]

German economy tanking in reession

[@martincarty3067]

spelling.@@keithemerson6002

[@alundavies1016]

I think Starmer is playing nice with the EU because there is a lot to be said for mending bridges. It may not come to anything concrete, but rejoining will take a long time, and in the meantime speaking softly may grease the wheels. It may not, but it doesn’t cost anything.

[@dwdei8815]

As the video explains above, it is an illusion to think that smooching the leader of France or Germany translates into currying favours and mending bridges with the EU. It is a different parliament. In Brussels. If bridges are to be mended, then that is where the supplicants must go. Meanwhile do you think the EU hasn't access to those sour and offensive anti-EU articles he wrote for our right-wing nutters?

[@fabiopaolobarbieri2286]

it costs all the lost growth and lost business that worsens Britain's condition every year.

[@alundavies1016]

@@fabiopaolobarbieri2286 he can’t just rejoin the EU on a whim, so in the absence of being a member he is preparing and repairing.

[@fabiopaolobarbieri2286]

@@alundavies1016 Oh, please. A whim? The whim of what is by now the majority of the British electorate, and certainly the large majority of anyone disposed to vote Labour? Use better language, at least. Not that it makes any sense anyway. What is he repairing and preparing? To make Brexit work? That is the promise he actually made.

[@alundavies1016]

@@fabiopaolobarbieri2286 Starmer can’t bring the UK back into the EU with a wave of his hand, that is the whim I refer to. There are bridges to be mended after the continuous attacks on the EU that have been made before and since Brexit. We will not get back into the EU quickly, and in the meantime we still need to function as best we can outside.

[@ZoukPaulo]

Tout flatteur vit aux depens de celui qui l'ecoute. The Brexit con depended on a majority of th British believing the flattery. Why did they want to believe the baloney?

[@TheHoveHeretic]

​@2aph0d_b33blebr0xhaving any problems with corruption from the Idiots Incumbent? You sort it, you don't run away sulking. And sorted it will be.

[@aukebij3193]

To be clear, no EU country can or may make proposals. this can only be done with the full consent of all EU countries. Macron's suggestion that day had already been swept off the table by the entire EU Commission

[@raycomeau6866]

The chances of the UK rejoining the EU is not much better than Ukraine joining the EU.

[@Oluinneachain]

Loved The Skibbereen Eagle reference 👏🏼👍🏼😂

[@christophermiller4471]

I am against any associate membership for the UK. Only full membership would be good enough for me.

[@johnbrereton5229]

There is nothing stopping you moving to an EU country and living your fantasy there as a full member. 😂😂😂

[@imastaycool]

Membership of any kind is way off by decades... Greetings from the EU.

[@johnbrereton5229]

@@imastaycool Greetings from Britain, a free and prosperous democracy ! Don't worry, it will never happen even in decades time, why ? Because the vast majority of Brits wouldn't touch your recession and fraud hit declining EU dictatorship with a barge poll. 😁

[@Paul_C]

@christophermiller4471 if that is your stance, good bye. You haven't got a hope in hell to enter with that attitude.

[@christianfournier6862]

You've gone to the finest school all right, Miss Lonely But you know you only used to get juiced in it And nobody's ever taught you how to live out on the street And now you're gonna have to get used to it You said you'd never compromise With the mystery tramp, but now you realize He's not selling any alibis As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes And say do you want to make a deal? How does it feel? How does it feel To be on your own With no direction home A complete unknown Like a rolling stone?

[@didierlemoine6771]

Britain will need a referendum first and on €uro too :)

[@eddygrunge4749]

The Moves and Gestures of Starmer and Sunak, are opening feints, not so much aimed at the EU, rather at the voting population of the UK, that the Fatwa Omerta Silence of mentioning EU, Europe, Brexit etc is over; beyond this, it is difficult to see where and what they are aiming at .ie. trajectory is unclear.

[@channelsixtyeight068_]

The EU negotiators _facilitated_ the UK leaving the EU. In the end, they wanted you lot gone.

[@novainvicta]

Have you got proof of that! No you have not don't talk like a child and remember millions of us voted to stay in the EU.

[@josefinenilsson8059]

It makes no difference how many voted remain. The UK as a whole voted leave.

[@channelsixtyeight068_]

@@novainvicta _millions of us voted to stay in the EU_ - Surpassed by those who voted to leave. When it became apparent that was going to happen, then the EU made sure its integrity remained undamaged. It naturally wanted the best deal it could get for itself and help the UK on its way. The UK felt very good about itself. Excellent diplomacy on the EU's part.

[@channelsixtyeight068_]

@@novainvicta _Inside The Deal_ by Stefaan De Rynck, should help you in your quest for knowledge.

[@frogandspanner]

The EU made a grave mistake by offering Cameron an opt out from _Ever Closer Union_ : "It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that *the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom* ." This fundamental shift from a foundational principle of the EU resulted in Brexiters tasting blood, and resulted in the belief that the EU saw the UK's membership as worth major changes to its basis. Perhaps this accounts for Starmer's perspective.

[@lacdirk]

Donnelly saying that it makes no sense to join the single market on worse terms than we had as members of the EU, really brings it home that even smart and generally sensible Britons really do not want to deal with reality. Joining the SM without a say would still be a good deal. It is clearly worse than being an EU member, in every respect, but if EU membership is not possible, or only in the long term, then SM membership may be as good as it gets. The reality is that rejoining the EU will be tough. The EU has more important things to do, and will be changing dramatically to deal with new challenges. It won't make any concessions to make UK join, partly because giving the UK exceptionally good terms backfired before. So negotiating closer terms in the medium term (10-15 years) should include looking at SM membership or a customs union with the EU, even if either are very poor substitutes.

[@howarddavies8937]

We had extremely good terms when we were a member. It wouldn't bother me if we gave up the pound.

[@onotad]

Does Britain have any weapons in their arsenal to fight their way back into the customs union and single market and nothing else from the EU?

[@andrewblewett2300]

As always a serious go at making sense of the ongoing Brexit « situation ». Thank you both. I sense that America’s turn inwards and the existential Putin question for Europe as a continent will make it impossible to ignore the illogicality of trying to face away from the EU. The UK gov should be doing all it can to influence EU foreign policy in favour of Ukraine (which may be a vain hope). If the Tories embrace the far right fully we have a problem because they could win a future GE should the economy struggle, after all they won the referendum. We have no PR … and the present gov has pushed back against electoral reform perhaps for this reason. Which makes it that much more important that Labour if successful (I’m not as sure as you are!) make the constitutional changes that Gordon Brown proposes inc. a reformed HoL to check an « elected dictatorship ».

[@Helvetica247]

Love it 🎵

[@bjornjonsson7037]

Both labour and the tories must be in favour of rejoining which is why it's so far away from happening. Labour can do nothing if the tories aren't onboard...

[@Martini923]

No media coverages of the march in London, in either the BBC or Channel Four etc, looks like middle age middle class white people at the march 😂😂😂

[@patricialeighton4516]

It's just a conspiracy of silence led by the Murdoch Press and others.

[@massimosquecco8956]

And History invented the Britishceptics: me, for instance!

[@nicolass7102]

Brexit disaster

[@user-kv2rz3mw2b]

I see Germany is not adverse to occasionally shutting borders with EU states.

[@donnaghm]

I enjoy these frightfully posh fellows.

[@garymohan7929]

You talk about UK people / media not understanding the EU. They don't even understand UK constitutional law, let alone how UK Civil Service actually works, let alone how policy in the UK happens. Karen Bradely was appointed Northern Ireland Secretary and said “I didn’t understand things like when elections are fought, for example, in Northern Ireland - people who are nationalists don’t vote for unionist parties and vice versa. So, the parties fight for election within their own community."

[@brendandonnelly1853]

What was particularly striking about that episode was the unembarrassed way she confessed to her ignorance.

[@torehaaland6921]

What we know is that things doesn't work very well in the UK. That is actually all we need to know.

[@gordonmilligan8847]

6:30 If you believe that the EU single market is important enough that the UK should need to rejoin it then once you have joined such an important entity then you'd of course want to have a say in how it was run and would therefore rejoin the EU which the UK declaredly will not do. In other words, the Catch-22 to any single market strategy is the observation that the UK as a whole would be extremely happy to rejoin the single market without any say in its rules, but only under the one important condition that being part of it was guaranteed to be of no consequence whatsoever.

[@markwelch3564]

I can see Brendan Donnelly's idea of associate membership working as a kind of probationary membership on the path to full membership. I also agree it makes absolutely no sense as a final destination

[@josefinenilsson8059]

The Singe Market is not a club a third country can join. A country only becomes part of the Single Market by being a member of the EU or EFTA.

[@watchnut5305]

Only 3000 people turned up to the rejoin march, lol. It's over, give it a rest.

[@mmnetronron]

Not sure if sound happy or depressed. If it's happy... let your tap water checked!

[@minimalist279]

Vain UK !

[@tobylynch]

The UK voted for higher prices for food. Job losses and isolationism policies. And destruction to trade. The UK is happy so leave things alone.

[@Lawrence4000-s3k]

Since we have a labour shortage why should 'job losses' be a worry? Are you sure there have been job losses, btw, since the employment rate is higher now than in 2016?

[@martynarmstrong4425]

That's a pretty depressing video gents. It's unlikely Mr Starmer will back-track on his promises at least initially as he's hoping for at least two terms as PM. Assuming our governining politicians don't have an epiphany where they join the call for rejoining how does Joe Public get this onto the political agenda. Whether your a rejoiner or a stay-outer i hope you see the need for a debate about this.....and are you going to discuss the EU's position on even considering our readmission?