Brian Wilson Vs Mike Love - Rivals Podcast

[@magictransistorradio4933]

Mike Love's biography is very eye opening. It's always good to hear both sides of a story to get closer to the truth. The fact of the matter is, in 1974, the Beach Boys were playing a lot of progressive songs. Even Mike was singing songs like All I Wanna Do and Big Sur. Student Demo was a pretty hot song at the time as well. But the audience made it clear they wanted the hits. It's almost like the Beach Boys were cursed by their initial success. Pet Sounds was poorly advertised by Capitol Records, and they immediately released a Greatest hits album that went to number 1. Good Vibrations was an outlier and perhaps paved the way for Smile to be a successful album. But Brian then had a nervous breakdown. The rest of the Beach Boys began to find their own voices. By the early 70s they began to gain respect from the hip underground. But Endless Summer went platinum! The guys fighting to stay artistically relevant (Dennis and Carl) were having personal problems with drugs. If they had stayed healthier, I think the 80s would have been different.

[@smokefree08]

The most notable thing Mike Love has ever done is wear a baseball hat with a Tuxedo.

[@ENigma-um8zw]

And a radio shack hat at The Beach Boys final live show with all original band members. Representing the future, baby! ;)

[@Dr170]

I wonder if Love is pleased, or jealous, now that the "army" of his good friend Donny T is the first association people will make when they think of the combination of douchebags and caps.

[@ronniewald7135]

You people are fools to discount Love's lyrical contributions. The very fact that a court awarded him millions and proved Murry and Brian sought to cheat him. Moreover, the Wilson Brothers pushed Manson on the band NOT Mike.

[@ms8596]

@@ronniewald7135 Brian didn't seek to cheat him. His father? Yes. His father took care of that stuff, including screwing Brian when selling Sea of Tunes out from under him. Brian didn't really even punch back during Love's lawsuits. Why did the Beach Boys sink like a rock during 1967? Because the artistic growth was shelved, and they went back to Mike Love themes of root beer, and crap no one cared about anymore. Has beens. Your daddy's band. And Manson? What does Manson have to do with this? Brother Records was created (before Apple) for the band to expand and sign other artists to promote. It wasn't just Dennis and Brian that looked into Manson's music. Love? Who has he ever discovered, besides another paternity suit or a 5th, 6th, 10th wife? (I've lost track}. All you ever need to know about Mike Love is seen watching the 1988 Hall of Fame "speech" he made. He wrote a lot of banal lyrics with a few exceptions. He pushed the band to remain in the past. He's been viewed by most who've ever met him as a complete AH.

[@hollygolightly724]

@@ms8596 well said

[@murderinc.hunting7686]

That "here a mug, there a mug" line was hilarious. Oh man that was great lol

[@user-tl2qn1qi1g]

Mike Love is consistent. Always been a twot, is currently a twot, and will only ever be ....a twot.

[@dalehood1846]

Well spoken. Cheers.

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

A violent "beating his teenage pregnant wife" A-hole.

[@Zannathin]

Did i miss it or did they really not include mike love’s insane rock and roll Hall of fame speech? that is definitely relevant when discussing mike love villainous history.

[@fudgicle1086]

Totally agree. Love's RRHOF speech is pure, un-cut, peak Mike Love cringe. Both in relation to the band and the audience. My only regret is that Ali didn't knock his ass out.

[@sitvisjes]

@@fudgicle1086 Would be even cooler if Elton John did😂

[@Somethingelseentirelydifferent]

My favorite beach boys: 1. Brian 2-4. (tie) Carl, Al, Dennis 5. Charles Manson 6. Mike Love

[@Dr170]

Don't worry about forgetting Bruce, he's used to it.

[@azami123]

ha ha @ Zane

[@dalehood1846]

corrive 9, David Marks, definitely rates higher than mike. Would like to see David Marks tour with Brian. It's a shame murry ran him off when they were first starting out. David was Dennis's friend.

[@DaisyIsKing]

Don't forget about Blondie and Ricky.

[@ENigma-um8zw]

This was great. I also fell in love with SMiLE and the documentary that was released with it in 2004 I was so grateful to see him perform Pet Sounds live in its entirety. A once in a lifetime opportunity. So thankful, I felt like I was in the presence of a modern musical genius prodigy like a post modern Bach

[@rickjensen5822]

Great recap and insights. Followed Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys from 1963. Fairly accurate and on point regarding both Mike Love and Brian Wilson.

[@markwhittaker6321]

'Here a mug, there a mug- everybody chug a lug' Amen.

[@TheCeilingIsLava]

Brian said he wrote Heroes & Villains in the sandbox.

[@matthewrider5906]

Nevermind Hang On To Your Ego, Hang On To Your Grudges!! Hehe.

[@magictransistorradio4933]

The Today album was a year earlier than Pet Sounds. Symphonic pop with introspective lyrics written by Mike Love! So I don't think Pet Sounds came out of no where. I think Mike was upset that after writing most of the lyrics, that Brian was using someone else.

[@ms8596]

Yes, Mike has always displayed the money grubbing side. Not being the lyricist once Tony Asher, then Van Dyke Parks took over, that royalty well was drying up. Brian wanted to grow and be better, so he sought better. Love will forever be known for banality. There are a few exemptions, like Warmth of the Sun is one, but...

[@magictransistorradio4933]

@@ms8596 Like I said, Mike wrote the lyrics for Today. Which I think were every bit as good as the Pet Sounds lyrics.

[@magictransistorradio4933]

@@ms8596 Good Vibrations, the Wild Honey album, Big Sur, are others inwhich he was more poetic.

[@whiteandright1958]

Thank you for recognizing TODAY! Almost everyone thinks when Brian left the road he immediately made PS. That's NOT what happened. TODAY! followed ASL and the second side of TODAY! was the precursor to PS. While those songs were critically acclaimed, Capitol wasn't so keen on songs such as "PLEASE LET ME WONDER" and "KISS ME BABY" etc. So, Capitol demanded the NEXT album be more commercial, so we got SALT LAKE CITY and AMUSEMENT PARKS USA along with great compositions such as CALIFORNIA GIRLS and HELP ME RHONDA. Then came PARTY which Brian used to fend off Capitol while he completed PS.

[@matthewrider6456]

Can you imagine if the original "teenage symphony to God" had dropped in '67.... My goodness, it woulda blown minds, man!

[@dalehood1846]

Thanks to mike, that didn't happen. Except when Brian finished and performed it in 2004 without mikes help.

[@cameronmac8928]

Make more of these this was a blast to listen to

[@dalehood1846]

Really wonderful, thank you for doing this. Perhaps, instead of referring to it as a "cult" of Brian Wilson, it could be said the Camp of Brian Wilson for lovers of the music. Now Manson, that was a brainwashed cult. Thank you again for doing this, very well done and to the point. Possibly, do another one strictly on mike love, the RR INDUCTION, him talking, using the word "POSITIVITY" a lot. His EIGHT marriages, all ex, including being married by Wolfman Jack!!!! His religious forays into eastern religions, the maharashi. Might be interesting. All the best and May God bless.

[@dalehood1846]

Another podcast with the subject being mike, may finally answer the eternal question, does Mike love?

[@ReeseEifler]

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.

[@smustipher]

Look at the body language....tells you everything you need to know

[@matthewrider5906]

Tony Asher has said, more than once, on camera, very plainly, that Mike Love absofuknlutely said, "Don't fuck with the formula" after hearing the tracks for Pet Sounds. And Mike Love has NEVER said or done anything at all about what Asher alleges, either! That shit happened, man. Mike Love said that shit.

[@thewkovacs316]

i believe asher's quote was first reported in the book "heroes and villains" not a single member of the band ever disavowed that unauthorized biography

[@matthewrider5906]

@Sean Hurley Dude.... I have not been in a graduate level writing course, but I have been in a couple bands, & Brian's biggest, self-stated reason for shelving SMILE? MIKE DIDN'T LIKE IT! Furthermore, Mike had his huge brother, Stan, beat up Dennis, Brian's brother, because Mike Love couldn't do it himself! And Mike disagreeing may seem fine to you, but it's OBVIOUS that Brian didn't need Mike for lyrics! (PS, BWPS, both were written by Tony Asher & Van Dyke Parks, respectively. Mike, on the other hand, not the most prolific music writer on his old saxophone🙄) Let's have some context, here! Brian didn't need Mike Love! In fact, his greatest two records were written w/out him! Mike, on the other hand, w/out Brian, or the other Wilson brothers.... Useless! So FUCK Mike Love! Fucking douchebag!

[@Shoeg4zer]

I was definitely first know the Kokomo and Full House era Beach Boys. Took me a full decade to rediscover them.

[@magictransistorradio4933]

I became a die hard Beach Boys fan in 1998 from the documentary Endless Harmony on VH1. I remember there was a disconnect between my favorite era (65-73) and the 80s and 90s band. Even Brian's Imaginations was cheesy to me. In my opinion his worst solo album. I saw Mike Love's Beach Boys in 1999 which was just generic hits. But the last 20 years have surpassed my expectations by far! Seeing Brian perform the entire Pet Sounds album in 2001! Then even better, Smile in 2004!! That Lucky Old Sun and Gershon albums are fantastic! Al Jardine's solo album, the Dennis wilson cd release of Pacific Ocean Blue and official release of Bambu tracks, 2011 Smile Sessions box set, 2012 reunion, Love and Mercy the movie! Who would have thought we could get this kind of stuff from them 20 years ago?

[@matthewrider5906]

@@magictransistorradio4933 Do you know, did Brian perform SMiLE in America, at all???

[@magictransistorradio4933]

@@matthewrider5906 Yes! I saw him perform Smile in Dallas in 2005 I believe.

[@matthewrider5906]

@@magictransistorradio4933 I know the recorded live version is the happiest I've ever seen Brian! He looked younger, performing SMiLE than he did doing Pet Sounds in '01!! Amazing. Just amazing 💯

[@magictransistorradio4933]

@@matthewrider5906 I agree. I think the prime of his solo career was later still. That Lucky Old Sun and Reimagines Gershwin.

[@jdd3786]

Cool podcast. I'm glad they made the comparison of the Beach Boys to punk rock. Alot of people don't realize that. Without them there'd be no Ramones. Also the Queers, who sound just like Mike Love's voice, have covered several Beach Boys songs, 3 decades later.

[@dalehood1846]

Is Mike queer.

[@BoneCK15]

One of the tactics they would use to force Brian to write was lie to him and convince him he was going broke. It's so messed up to force anxiety on someone with mental illness. They'll tell you it was to save Brian. They also conveniently saved themselves.

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

The BBs weren't always angels or that supportive of Brian's best interests when it threatened their financial security. Landy was clearly abusive and manipulative, but the Band had their own dark arts.

[@thomasgary1219]

I'm just now really getting into the beach boys, I see alot of similarities between Brian Wilson and Syd Barrett, really glad that Brian was able to make it back. Syd Barrett wasn't as lucky. Anyone else notice the similarities between these two men?

[@ms8596]

Back in the 70s, my fellow musicians would say Brian and Syd should make an album together. Both were geniuses that suffered existing mental issues that were exacerbated with time and drug use. As much as Landy screwed Brian over, he did initially save him from certain death both in '75 and '81. I never heard of similar help for Syd. Gilmore and Waters did help him get a couple solo albums out there, but by '75 while recording Wish You Were Here, they didn't even recognize him as he came into the studio.

[@cynthiarowley719]

It was the whole Era, in a nutshell. Peace love freedom Kent State.

[@MIKELIN8]

In 2012, Mike Love fired Brian Wilson from The Beach Boys. Wrap your brain about that.

[@magictransistorradio4933]

I think the only other Beach Boy that could have been a good front man outside of Mike was Dennis. I think he would have been a cross between Jim Morrison and Joe Cocker. A very different.

[@dalehood1846]

Very interesting. That could have worked better in my view. Dennis was 100 PERCENT behind Brian. Thank you for that. May God bless.

[@MIKELIN8]

When the band started, Dennis was considered 'the sexy one' of the band. If you see the video of the TAMI show, listen to the screams when Dennis is on camera. They're alomst Beatlemanis-esque.

[@marcofalzone6469]

Your whole conversation is one of the perplexed reasons fans first get into the Beach Boys music beyond the 60s. It is a modern Shakespeare tragedy/drama

[@josephtelegen8754]

These guys are good. Checking out the podcast for sure.

[@ghardway]

10 vi har

[@matthewrider6456]

There is some grey area, truth be told. Mike has admitted on camera that he's too subjective to accurately discern the 100% truth of everything. He wrote the lyrics to their greatest single, and one of the most innovative records of all time, Good Vibrations, for example.

[@Skizze37]

Yeah but who spent years creating the vehicle for Mike's lazy lyrics? Written on the way to the studio in the car, no less

[@subg8858]

No he didn’t he just came up with one line

[@matthewrider5906]

@@Skizze37 I'm not taking Mike's side at all. I think the boys, Mike most of all, should've given Brian FULL support to create & complete SMiLE, as conceived of in 1967 by Brian & Van Dyke. I think that's just a given. And had Brian gotten a chance to release SMiLE, perhaps that would've transformed, much more naturally, into the Holland-era kind of stuff, a much more mainstream, guitars, bass, drums, n keyboards kinda band. Unfortunately, we know what really happened! I was just trying, I suppose, to inject a bit of fairness. But I digress....

[@auroramariealmeara8622]

Brian wrote it Mike came up with one line if that.

[@impalaman9707]

A Beach Boys without a Wilson is like a Bee Gees without a Gibb--and Mike Love doesn't count even though his mother was a Wilson! I saw Mike and Bruce and their gang calling themselves the Beach Boys on the Huckabee TV show not too long ago and it was an embarrassment! Mike and Bruce twirling around like an "octogenarian" Jan and Dean! Carl and Dennis are crying out from their graves--"stop calling yourselves the Beach Boys"!!!

[@jdd3786]

Please don't ever put the Beach Boys and the Bee Gees in the same sentence again. Thanks.

[@dalehood1846]

Impman, I agree. Brian IS The. Beach Boys! Not mike.

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

Brian voted (with Carl Wilson's sons) to give Mike the name under certain conditions.

[@whiteandright1958]

​​@@rejectionisprotection4448let me correct you. The Beach Boys, as a corporation have a Board of Directors. That board consists of Brian, Mike, Al and the estate of Carl Wilson. After Carl died, Mike and Al had competing BB bands. Mike, always a shrewd businessman, approached the BOD and offered to LEASE the name THE BEACH BOYS under a one year self renewing contract. Brian, Al The estate of Carl AND Mike each receive 3.25 percent of the gross proceeds from EVERY concert that Mike's band performs. Based on that, the four board members earn 3 to 4 million a year from Mike. Of course Mike double dips, taking his 3.25 percent in addition to the profits from the concerts after paying out all expenses. As a side mention, both Brian and Carl's estate give a percentage of their 3.25 to Dennis' sons

[@augenmaugen]

Cut. It. Out! I too had a false impression of the Beach Boys from their Full House appearance. I didn’t discover their great stuff until about 2006. (btw, I have to admit that I watched every episode of Fuller House with my wife. Please DO judge, I deserve it.)

[@Dr170]

No judgin' for taking one for the team, friend ✌

[@NATDENNEY]

Brian was the genius and true leader artistic leader of the Beachboys true musical force

[@ordinary_average_guy]

OMG...THANK YOU. It seems like everything I read/watched re: Love & Mercy was so glowingly positive and all I could think of was Cusak as Brian Wilson was not good. Role definitely should have been re-cast. I don't mind JC, just not as Brian Wilson.

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

It mucked up the film for me. I just saw John Cusack behaving more slowly. Paul Damon was very good though, very convincing. It was a film of two halves.⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽

[@whiteandright1958]

John Cusak is an American hating communist.

[@Jaryism]

Overly biased. I never understood the Mike Love hate, him and Brian had different visions for the band and different personalities this isn’t good vs evil that’s ridiculous.

[@leopoldopetrieska6564]

i ust noticed this is your first upload in 6 years lol.

[@richardbuckley1232]

Murray Wilson fans!!!!! Bahahah

[@kirbygraham8265]

Unpopular opinion: I don’t see Mike Love as a villain. He definitely seems to come across as a self centered and disagreeable individual as far as his handling of his business and career is concerning. That being said, I think lots of bands have and need a guy like that to keep things moving and orderly. Another thing I disagree with is the myth of Brian Wilson being an angelic being. While being a musical genius, the guy was a drug-addicted, mentally ill mess for huge portions of his life, and would absolutely not be easy to work with. Also, I don’t believe the accusation that Mike Love ever said, “don’t f*ck with the formula.” There is no real evidence that he said that other than from those leeching off Brian Wilson.

[@ms8596]

Enough people who were there have been reporting it since it happened. Love is doing the classic rewrite of history thinking people won't know better, or too many who never saw the history for 55+ years wouldn't know how to substantiate it. And "a mess"? How much of that mess came out of the day to day fight with a family member he was a benefactor to? He delivered you a No 1 with Good Vibrations and his new direction, shut the f*ck up and let him create!!! The world was waiting for it. He had the attention of everyone from Leonard Bernstein, Lennon and McCartney, the Stones, Pink Floyd, to Frank Zappa, and too many to list in-between. Jack Bruce called him "the New Bach". As Jackson Brown said, "imagine influencing the Beatles!" But no, "don't f*ck with "Amusement Parks U.S.A." because not only does it sell to 14 year olds, but I'll lose my lyricist royalties."

[@troynolen6448]

Me too, Mike did a lot of the writing and half the lead vocals, especially early on

[@vincevirtua]

The funny thing about the photo in the video is there’s another one from the same shoot of Brian laughing. Weird!

[@mcgloinm1]

I went to their concert in Louisville a long time ago. There was only one real Beach Boy in the group. Therefore I never listened to or bought any of their music again.

[@dalehood1846]

Please don't let the experience at the concert ruin things for you. The music is still there for all of us. Despite what is going on with the band. The music is the important thing. Not the controversy.

[@danielcruz8347]

These two guys are great host team...Steve plays devil's advocate and Jordan has a laugh! I have no doubt Mike love did contribute to many songs and vocal arrangements.. But onstage he has always been annoying miming trying to get all the attention directed toward himself!! I watch a video on KZbin of b/w beach boys concert from late 60's that shows Mike love disrespecting and trying to bully Carl Wilson blatantly on stage!! I tried finding this video again but could not locate it anymore.. if I do find it all related it on this comment theard in the future..thank you for sharing & posting

[@davidames1746]

Funny...good cameraderie here

[@TheRhettler]

"Mike's vision, Dennis' life. and Brian's music"...That's what made the Beach Boys. Love him or hate him, while Mike Love was no genius songwriter, he was the frontman the Beach Boys needed. And that's because the Beach Boys are more than just a collection of songs; they are an institution. Mike Love has kept that institution, the "California Myth", alive and turned many generations onto the Beach Boys music. I saw the Beach Boys for the first time as a 17 year old many years after Brian left and went solo. And while I'm of course thankful for his songwriting, it was Mike Love and Bruce Johnston who turned me, a teenage gen-z kid, into a Beach Boys fan. While my other friends were listening to Kanye or Taylor Swift, I came to love and appreciate Kokomo, Surfin USA, and California Dreamin. Still to this day, the Beach Boys are my favorite band. Maybe someday I'll make it to Redondo Beach and catch Mike Love driving his 409 with Barbara Ann by his side. Until then, keep pickin' up good vibrations.

[@auroramariealmeara8622]

Mike love has always been jealous of Brian,Dennis and Carl,I hate him.

[@TugHillGuy]

I think without Mike Love the Beach Boys would not have reached the heights they did. He was really instrumental in their success in different ways, including lyric writing and leading the tours. However, I was just reminded of how off-putting he could be when I watched his speech at their induction into the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame, where he trashed Paul McCartney, Dianna Ross, Mick Jagger and other pop/rock superstars. He took the focus off the Beach Boys at a time when they should have been celebrated.

[@dalehood1846]

BellyDanceFan, I realize why you feel that way, however, many others wrote songs with Brian. As far as a front man, others could have filled that role as well. Overall, mike despite touting over and over about "positivity", he has had his "moments." The induction ceremony at the RR hall of fame. In conclusion, mike has EIGHT EX WIVES, one time being married by Wolfman Jack of all people. Take care.

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

​@@dalehood1846He's had five wives.

[@whiteandright1958]

Look at it this way. Without Mike Love, either the BB would have found another lead singer, or Brian, Carl, Al and Dennis would have taken turns on lead. Without Brian Wilson, Mike Love would not have ANYTHING to sing.

[@DummyYEEEAAHHHHH]

All 3 were spot on about Florida... I lived down south Florida there for almost 2 yrs... Im from S.Jersey right outta Philly.... Florida sucks

[@bsouth7042]

Yeah, but to suggest California is somehow immune from serial killers and meth labs is utterly ridiculous.

[@88daysingulch]

@@bsouth7042 it’s a joke lmao

[@AndrewCapobianco2014]

Al Jardine, Orig BB guitar is anti-animal-kill

[@Ditka-89]

Love this podcast, but the constant political jabs is so abrasive

[@StoryLandVideos]

Huh?

[@baz3338]

@@StoryLandVideos I think he means the anti Trump rhetoric, we can go to Rachel maddow for that

[@dalehood1846]

Agree, that did NOT need to be there. This is about music, no need to bring politics into it. Take care and May God bless.

[@dalehood1846]

4:35 The Four Freshmen a "jazz" group???????????¿?????????????????????????

[@dalehood1846]

Does mike love?

[@TheRhettler]

Oh come on, the Beach Boys probably would have quit touring sometime in the 70s if it weren't for Love.

[@DaisyIsKing]

One can dream.

[@sallybrown4947]

So many idiots who don't know anything about Mile Love/Beach boys ( including here) and have watched endless Brian Wilson documentaries think they now know the real story. Mike Love wrote the complete song lyrics to 100's of Beach boys songs including almost every single hit song they had. So for 30+ years Mike never got a single writing credit and or paid a dime for that work, thanks to monkey business by Brian's father Murray Wilson. It's just disgusting how people are making matter of facts statements who know nothing but hearsay from media bs. Also Mike Love is singing on every single Pet sounds tracks and re-wrote better lyrics on songs on that album.

[@thebeachboysvidz]

Nice try, Mike.

[@cujosephwalker9707]

​@@thebeachboysvidzSally is getting a little too "Excitated"

[@MIKELIN8]

I don't know about that, all of my Beach Boys albums from the 60s and70s have song credits of (Wilson/Love) attached to them. Mike got writing credits when he was the lyricist.

[@dalehood1846]

At time 45:59, you state that "The Beach Boys wouldn't have existed without mike love." I am going to have to strongly disagree with that statement. Many others could have sang lead for the group. As far as lyrics, Brian and others have handled that on numerous songs. As for Good Vibrations, listen to another version at the end of the movie, "Old Dogs" starting Tim Allen, John Travolta, Martin Lawrence. You may be able to find it elsewhere, Brian is the lead singer on it, and it was when he was older. Think you would enjoy that as I did. Take care.

[@whiteandright1958]

Not OLD DOGS. The movie is WILD HOGS. But you are correct. Those are Brian's lyrics to Good Vibrations before Mike allegedly rewrote them.

[@winkowinkowinko4922]

lol

[@sethrogaine]

horrible hosts

[@johnsampson8587]

after listening for 42 minutes i decided to cut my losses and look for a better beach boys documentary.

[@thebeachboysvidz]

What made you think that this was a documentary?

[@gwbenites]

Mike Love is an embarrassment to the Beach Boys. That scene of him at the RRHOF calling out the Stones and whoever saying they were afraid of the BB's was bad. This guy is like Roger Waters as far as the jealousy towards Brian and David Gilmour is so obvious, and their inflated idea of their talent is also obvious. I mean, "Caroline No" vs. Kokomo? WTF?? What would Love actually do if the Stones said "come on, let's jam"? Water's singing and bass playing vs. Gilmour?

[@sethrogaine]

what a bunch of dopes.

[@marcocastellano2451]

Well, it is clear one of you hates Mike Love. How dare he be practical..... Pet sounds had a few good songs. You guys act liked Pet Sounds had all hits. It simple isn't true. Mike Love was vital to the Beach Boys. Brian Wilson was vital for the Beach Boys, Dennis was vital for the band, Al and Carl were someone replaceable. Carl sang beautifully but Brian could have sung those parts. God only Knows and Wouldn't it be Nice were the only hits Brian wrote on that album. Sloop John B was a Caribbean folk song.

[@StoryLandVideos]

Pet Sounds had a few hits? That album is a gem from front to back.

[@hingusdingus3451]

What are you talking about? Carl, Al and Mike were the only real constants in the group. There were only a few years where Carl and Al weren’t in the group but besides that they were always there. The two other people you say were “vital” to the group were also the only two members who were actually kicked out of the band. Brian and Dennis became so hard to deal with that they were fired from The Beach Boys. Brian created a lot of wonderful music, but by the late 60s the creative drive that had fostered the entirety of their early material from Surfin to Good Vibrations, just wasn’t there anymore. At that time Carl and Dennis took the reins and kept them afloat creatively until even they resigned to the fact that “we can make more money doing the hits than being creative”. I’m not trying to vilify Mike Love because he important to the creative output of the band, but when Brian was trying to progress their musical identity past cars, girls and surf he wanted nothing to do with it. Sure Brian may have flew a little too close to the sun, but he took the risk and didn’t compromise his artistic vision. He was the leader of the group.

[@Onio_]

@@hingusdingus3451 Brian didn't lose his creative drive in the late '60s, he just never published his songs. He wrote so many fantastic songs after Smile, some he released, most he didn't. The few bootlegs we have of that era of his music (and now official releases thanks to the Feel Flows boxset) show that Brian never lost his creativity.

[@auroramariealmeara8622]

We don't like Mike for one reason he was a bully.

[@Dr170]

The fact that you can only measure a song's quality by that nebulous descriptor known as "hit potential" says a great deal.