Thomas the Tank Engine First Impressions (Bentwood Vertical 63 Coffee Grinder)

[@BrianQuan]

Bentwood vs. Lab Sweet coming soon (Once I find space to have both of them next to each other LOL) 🚂🚂🚂🚂

[@FlavorTrends]

just want to type you this topic, you are my man, keep having fun...

[@hanalsechs2959]

Is there a possibility to include the mc4 as a conical challenger ? The flavour profile may be even more similar to the bentwood as the lab sweet (guessing the lab sweet may be way cleaner).

[@gimig91]

Really interested in a comparison with the SLM burrs

[@marcvandaele1878]

Is there something done on a review for these grinders,i am curious about the result

[@dtholloway28]

Bentwood vs Ditting LabSweet?

[@AlexMogilev]

Yes, please! Same price bracket, both are big, commercial, and multipurpose. What do you prefer in terms of taste and user experience?

[@BrianQuan]

Surprised I got so many requests for this. I'll be doing that video once I make space to have both of them chonkers next to each other

[@johnalexander4817]

Thanks!

[@BrianQuan]

Thank you so much for the continued support John!

[@eva00r]

Dude, I have been using Bentwood for over half a year now and it is the best thing ever happened in my coffee journey period.

[@orenshlo]

Giving this grinder as a present would be considered as "Tank's Giving" :)

[@ihavenospacebar231]

If you had to pick, this or p100?

[@greysuit17]

What’s this like compared to the Ditting Lab Sweet?

[@BrianQuan]

Surprised I got so many requests for this. I'll be doing that video in the future!

[@greysuit17]

@@BrianQuan Excellent!!! Looking forward to it. Love your perspective on coffee and all the great insights you have.

[@michaelvilster7201]

@@BrianQuan The Bentwood is as expensive in Europa as the Lab Sweet 807. My Lab Sweet was 2590€

[@mayespakebusch4233]

Where did you get the bellow and hopper adapter for it ? I'm currently looking for one. Thanks

[@cbeenhackker]

What is that black backplate you have on your Bentwood? Does it have a purpose?

[@42dunbar]

Flavor profile of this grinder kind of sounds like the Weber Key which is supposed to be fairly bright but well balanced with good body. I have a Key on order. IME the Niche lacks brightness and I find larger flats to be a bit lacking in body.

[@BrianQuan]

I have been using the same burrs in an HG1 and I personally don't really find the jump to be super big vs. a NZ. Need to revisit it though!

[@42dunbar]

@@BrianQuan Feedback I’m seeing from Home Barista forums is that the Key is brighter than the HG-1. Someone posted “I've been trying out the Key for the past 2 days and comparing to my HG1, it's definitely brighter.” That would be consistent with Hoffman’s review of the HG-2 which he places in between the Niche and a larger ~65mm+ flat burr on the flavor spectrum. Are you in the Los Angeles area? I might be willing to loan you mine to try out once it gets here.

[@BrianQuan]

@@42dunbar interesting! I had the HG1 on a WUG motor but it actually got jammed and I needed to get that fixed. I haven't kept up with the H-B Key threads but tbh I just hate how you change the grind setting on the HG1 and Key lol. I'm unfortunately not in LA area, I'm in the SF Bay Area! Happy to work something out with you if you wanted to send it up here for a video!

[@42dunbar]

@@BrianQuan OK, I can ping you once it gets here. I ordered in October so I think it will be a couple more months (at least) before it arrives.

[@BrianQuan]

@@42dunbar sweet! Feel free to email or DM me on IG!

[@MegaBIGDICK45]

love your channel brian!! just got an ode with ssp mp yesterday because of your videos. incredible espresso I'm loving it! also the best aero press I have ever had. Thanks!!

[@BrianQuan]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@wright.boy_]

a premium grinder like this that doesn’t just make your best cup better but your *worst* cup much better is a really good value proposition to me

[@BrianQuan]

Yep! That's why I love the BW and Flat Max LM

[@RTOBarista]

Your thoughts on Versalab 4 and Titus . The Titus looks like an upgrade to the Versalab M4 at twice the cost. You recently reviewed the Nautilus which is made by the same guy that does the Titus. Both the Versalab and Titus are very low retention and they claim does not need WDT nor RDT. I missed getting the orbit on the second drop.

[@nicholaspissare5874]

Very good info as always. I am using the Monolith Max (SW burrs) currently and find the workflow less then ideal. Seems like this would be a good replacement.

[@BrianQuan]

The only issue I have with the Max + LM is the grind time. Everything else I find to be great once I RDT + Puff. MC4 has been the best workflow out of the BW, LS, and Max as it doesn't actually require RDT.

[@nicholaspissare5874]

Ya I’m definitely nitpicking. Feel the grind time, beans sometimes sticking, lack of catch cup ability, and small adjustment dial is frustrating.

[@letsgetcarriedaway]

ngl was wondering where the comparison to lab sweet was, comments did not disappoint

[@BrianQuan]

Figuring out how to make space for this LOL

[@rpinarreta]

Just wondering why the housing is so large considering the size of the burrs used. Why not shrink the footprint or up the burr size?

[@e30Birdy]

I need to find a df64 bellows.. is the STL for the adapter to be found anywhere?

[@slappadabass1977]

How is this with light roast espresso? I've read it's not the best but acceptable.

[@LastAphelion]

Hey, I kept waiting for the Lab Sweet burrs comparison, how do you think Bentwood and LS match up in clarity/sweetness/body?

[@cameronbatko]

So like the niche and the SSP MP had a baby to make the bentwood? Get a clearer cup, but still get texture, and can do espresso and filter. Seems like a good one to target in the $2k range.

[@BrianQuan]

Yes! Reminiscient of the Dititng Lab Sweet :)

[@42dunbar]

That also describes the Weber Key if Hoffman’s review of the HG-2 is accurate.

[@robz9988]

Update...Having seen the Bentwood here in Zurich I can say it is a lovely machine. Easy to use. Coffee tasted very good and the build was quality seemed good too. The main question for me is size, otherwise it would definitely be on my list.

[@kcb5150]

I think if I were going for the complete overkill grinder solution I would get an e37z hero and be done with it.

[@deenman60]

with a retention deadspace of 1-2g no you wont.

[@kcb5150]

@@deenman60 That's interesting, do you have a link to testing that was done?

[@rajindergill9480]

Hi Brian, did you remove the declumper?

[@orenshlo]

I accidentally bought the iRoastec Low Speed Ceramic Conical Grinder. Couldn't find yet its hot spot for my light roasted espresso coffee, but surprisingly no static what so ever. Its super cheap (if you wait for the price drop), and for that insanely low price it might be worth the money. Not for high end coffee lovers, I bought it for 38$ as a backup for my 20 years old flat burr grinder. Waiting to find out if there is indeed an advantage for Ceramic Burrs combined with Low Speed grinding.

[@BrianQuan]

Interesting I should check that one out!

[@orenshlo]

@@BrianQuan More data: 0. Grounded beans are not worm (important, since that is an issue in low budget grinders) 1. Beans chamber has auto shutting buttom doors when it is removed. 2. The grinder can hold max of two serial 30sec operations (will automatically stop after 30sec and needs manual restart). This suits mainly limited fresh shots and not large batches. The official reason (except for a cheap engine heating) is for keeping the grounded coffee free from aroma-changing heat. 3. Retention is not a strong side, but it improves if you mercilessly hit the grinder when it sounds that your single/double shot grinding is finished (in that low price, why not hitting it :) ). 4. Noise and feel of the grinder is much better (more subtle) than of parallel low-end grinders running with high-speed screaming engines. 5. Even if the grinder refuses to restart after 60sec, unplugging it allows another 60sec (but thats not an issue for most people if the target is fresh grinding just before brewing). 6. Was using it only with a double shot accessory and not with the original grounded coffee chamber. I was surprised that although there was a larg gap potentially allowing grounded coffee to jump out, it didn't and I was left with an amazingly clean bottom/up/sides surfaces of the grinder, even after many operations. 7. Used fine grinding size of light roasted Kenya/Brazil/Ethiopia and medium-fine for dark roasted blend. 8. I am not an espresso guy (I do not allow myself to get there since I am limited to only two caffeine drinks a day - so I prefer it to be a double-shot espresso in a cappuccino). 9. My 15 years old espresso machine (Jura Subito) uses a unique brewing method, where the dry grounded coffee is put in a 45mm cylinder (instead of a 58mm portafilter). Later, a 45mm piston connected to a leaver (looks like a smaller version of the flair 58) manually presses the dry coffee down into the cylinder (tamp and press in the same operation), a pressure which is later maintained during the brewing process, and which can actually allow a courser grounded coffee to be extracted similarly to finely grounded coffee (merely because of the high pressure maintained during the brewing process). Brewing is done by a standard 15 bar pump pushing hot water, from the cylinder's bottom through the coffee, to the piston, which then leads the espresso to a cup (after a 180 degree turn). So in this machine, dialing-in an espresso can be done also using various levels of pressure put to the puck before and during brew process. I can go from high espresso flow to extreme low dripping just by applying more pressure (which is maintained during the brew proceas using a 6 clutch levels mechanism - even when the puck starts to expand). 10. I have 2 espresso machines of this type (steams milk too). The first one had its pump fail, so it was cheaper for me back then to just buy a refurbished one.

[@orenshlo]

@Brian Quan More data: 0. Grounded beans are not worm (important, since that is an issue in low budget grinders) 1. Beans chamber has auto shutting buttom doors when it is removed. 2. The grinder can hold max of two serial 30sec operations (will automatically stop after 30sec and needs manual restart). This suits mainly limited fresh shots and not large batches. The official reason (except for a cheap engine heating) is for keeping the grounded coffee free from aroma-changing heat. 3. Retention is not a strong side, but it improves if you mercilessly hit the grinder when it sounds that your single/double shot grinding is finished (in that low price, why not hitting it :) ). 4. Noise and feel of the grinder is much better (more subtle) than of parallel low-end grinders running with high-speed screaming engines. 5. Even if the grinder refuses to restart after 60sec, unplugging it allows another 60sec (but thats not an issue for most people if the target is fresh grinding just before brewing). 6. Was using it only with a double shot accessory and not with the original grounded coffee chamber. I was surprised that although there was a larg gap potentially allowing grounded coffee to jump out, it didn't and I was left with an amazingly clean bottom/up/sides surfaces of the grinder, even after many operations. 7. Used fine grinding size of light roasted Kenya/Brazil/Ethiopia and medium-fine for dark roasted blend. 8. I am not an espresso guy (I do not allow myself to get there since I am limited to only two caffeine drinks a day - so I prefer it to be a double-shot espresso in a cappuccino). 9. My 15 years old espresso machine (Jura Subito) uses a unique brewing method, where the dry grounded coffee is put in a 45mm cylinder (instead of a 58mm portafilter). Later, a 45mm piston connected to a leaver (looks like a smaller version of the flair 58) manually presses the dry coffee down into the cylinder (tamp and press in the same operation), a pressure which is later maintained during the brewing process, and which can actually allow a courser grounded coffee to be extracted similarly to finely grounded coffee (merely because of the high pressure maintained during the brewing process). Brewing is done by a standard 15 bar pump pushing hot water, from the cylinder's bottom through the coffee, to the piston, which then leads the espresso to a cup (after a 180 degree turn). So in this machine, dialing-in an espresso can be done also using various levels of pressure put to the puck before and during brew process. I can go from high espresso flow to extreme low dripping just by applying more pressure (which is maintained during the brew proceas using a 6 clutch levels mechanism - even when the puck starts to expand). 10. I have 2 espresso machines of this type (steams milk too). The first one had its pump fail, so it was cheaper for me back then to just buy a refurbished one.

[@Adam-cn5ib]

Which grinder do you personally have for daily use?

[@simply_psi]

For such a large grinder it does look good too, but I'd need to buy a new home to make room for it. Someone once told me you can tell if someone is stupid their TV is larger than their book case, in this case you can tell you're a coffee addict because your grinder is larger than some people's kitchens.

[@BrianQuan]

You can measure your coffee addiciton based on how big your grinder is vs. your machine haha!

[@armLocalhost]

Does it make good Italian espresso? I like thick crema 7g in 10g out.

[@deenman60]

It will auto destroy if you put dark beans in it.

[@abelburnem4402]

To use this in a commercial environment feels a little odd. 12s for 10g of espresso grinds is very slow imo. A Mahlkonig K30 or E65S takes about 4s to grind 18g. The time would quickly become a hold up. I do LOVE that you’re taking about the bentwood though! It got so much attention outside of YT and deserves the love

[@Andrew-wp1bz]

It depends on the environment how much this would matter. In Starbucks where you have several baristas constantly pulling shots from the same grinder it would be a bottleneck. I’m many specialty cafes near me, each barista uses there own grinder, In which case a 12 second grind wouldn’t matter for a 30 second shot.

[@x2805]

My eureka drogheria which I use at home does for about 3 sec 20 grams

[@BensCoffeeRants]

So actually low retention on that beast?

[@hennysu6351]

Great review! Are there any retailers in Canada?

[@Stef4nK]

sorry for the off topic question: is the difference between 64 and 83mm ssp multipurpuse burrs noticable?

[@BrianQuan]

Unfortunately I have never tried 83mm SSP burrs!

[@Rosini2222]

Well done Brian.

[@Dartania]

That thumbnail though! You are on a roll with content!

[@KnobleKnives]

I gotta say man, you’ve become my premier source for coffee grinder reviews. I think I may consider this one over Kopi DEVA.

[@BrianQuan]

This grinder is like 4x the size of the DEVA LOL

[@BenJoelLush]

The Big Ben! Love your videos mate, we need you.

[@deenman60]

One day I will have this grinder

[@BrianQuan]

One day I will get coffee with you IRL maybe next host milan? :^)

[@deenman60]

@@BrianQuan Milan is a bit far from Norway.

[@pithyginger6371]

Bentwood vs 64mm HU tho?

[@Rsolanzo]

HU is more niche like i.e. not much acidity but high body, but I'd say Bentwood has about 80% of the HUs body.

[@BrianQuan]

Pretty much what Rainier said!

[@iconindexsymbol]

@@Rsolanzo Does SSP make burrs that are in between MP and HU?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@iconindexsymbol Maybe but not in 64mm, SSP and Lagom as well are coming out with cast lab sweet style burrs.

[@karoo_bushman6880]

@@BensCoffeeRants I'm still waiting for the Option-O branded 'Lab Sweet' burrs! They should fall between HU and MP.. should be an interesting comparison to this Bentwood! If it can compete, that would be impressive, since P64 1000€ cheaper than Bentwood.

[@devrim1134]

Quite a positive review, maybe a bit too… ? 😉 There is no disclosure and I was wondering: did you buy this grinder, did you get it for free, maybe borrowed or paid review? Think all of us would appreciate it when you would be more transparant, so we can decide on the objectivity of this and other reviews. Thnx

[@BrianQuan]

This BW was borrowed :) Most companies especially ones making grinders of this caliber aren't sending anything to people :(

[@devrim1134]

Thnx for clarifying! A question about burr size: isn’t bigger, better? Let’s assume we build the best spec grinder: strong/steady motor, perfect alignment, perfect transport of beans to the burrs, zero retention, etc. When you use 98mm burrs in this setup, wouldn’t they outperform 63mm by far?

[@deenman60]

@@devrim1134 bigger is better when you only have the burrs. This grinder has a 10 cm long auger/pre-breaker shaft that breaks the beans into big chunks so the burrs dont have to work that much. The shaft/pre-breaker is something you find in a meat grinder, just that in our case the beans are broken, there are videos showing this from above while you pour the beans in.

[@orenshlo]

BTW loved the Tank. Even if given for free, my wife wouldn't have it on our countertop.... Same as she wouldn't agree for a real Tank on our garage :)

[@42dunbar]

That’s what I was thinking when I saw this. Only a true coffee geek could get away with having this on their counter top.

[@sK0pe-d9b]

I was ready to buy the Bentwood last year but I could not fit it in my kitchen 😂

[@BrianQuan]

Maybe you need to get a new kitchen!

[@deenman60]

you need a new wife, not a new kitchen. Because most people who cant buy bigger products it's because of the wife who wont let go some crappy once per month used kitchen device that collects dust.

[@AGmAGicman]

Jollibee makes any grinder better!

[@hanzohcafe.]

🤣

[@NashvilleFanatic]

Is there any available info on how companies go about designing burr geometries? I'm super curious if it's a lot of empirical work (aka guess and test) or if there are engineering principles and calculations that make it somewhat predictable.

[@hanalsechs2959]

So the idle speed is 1400rpm. This may explain the “removing sharp edges” and “flavor dulling [sweetness]” part. This combined with the auger (yes I’ve seen it’s sharp, knife like outer structure) which possibly breaks down the beans in beforehand, explains the fast output rate. Also, I’d wanna “see” a taste comparison to a mc4 and maybe a ditting lab sweet. (because of the removing sharpness and adding complexity, sweetness AND texture part)

[@BrianQuan]

Sooon! I'm making space for the BW, LS, and MC4

[@DS__112]

@@BrianQuan Please compare it with light roast.

[@el_covington5640]

Yes the bentwood auger pre-breaks the beans before actually hitting the burrs.

[@andreasguntensperger2931]

Hi Lance, once again a great video from you! Many thanks for all your awesome work - keep going on!!! I am now a very happy owner and homeuser of a BENTWOOD, Manuel just brought me mine last week. Manuel is such a good person and nice guy, with a great sense for coffee and huge knowledge about it and he provides an incredibly good service! Now please let me aske you one question. How did the brewing time (espresso / single dosing) change for you if you changed grind size? Roughly how many seconds per 10 microns? Many thanks again for all you great work and many thanks in advance for chekcing my request and your according feedback. With warmest and heavily caffeinated regards form Switzerland, Andreas 😀

[@zachofeternity5065]

LOL Thomas the tank engine 🚂

[@claritean]

man I really love your reviews and listen to you talking but you really repeat the same words 4 times over and over.