Bankrupt - Hyperloop One

[@smugshrug]

Hyperloop is, quite literally, a pipe dream. The engineering behind it is nearly impossible to scale to the level we'd need. It makes more sense to build high speed rail. Look at Japan.

[@greybeardedgamer9383]

Yeah, it is way too easy for it to have a catastrophic failure and literally implode.

[@stickynorth]

@@greybeardedgamer9383 The biggest point of failure in the concept in the pressurization of the tube... And everyone's worst fear especially after the Titan submarine implosion. I have a feeling that was the last straw for Hyperloop even though they weren't directly related. In people's minds the concept of being smushed to bits in a blink of an eye from one wrong weld scared off a lot of people. I think if the tubes weren't pressurized or even just mildly so it would work, just not at the speeds and efficiencies promised. Two companies are working on passive maglev add-on equipment for existing railways which to me seems much more viable. Ironlev and Nemovo....

[@TheMysteryDriver]

It's crazy the hurdles high speed rail has to overcome in the US. Most rail is privately owned. And it isn't as straight or level as it needs to be.

[@chimpana]

It was pushed on purpose by Musk to try to detract from high speed rail projects. It's a scam and a telling indictment on the modern world that anyone would ever buy into it.

[@_Circus_Clapped_]

although we can't trust people to obey railroad signs so it won't happen here in the USA

[@Airbender19]

The rendering of the hyperloop next to the Golden Gate Bridge sent me into orbit 💀 The whole point of the bridge's height is to provide safe clearance for ships passing under it. Even if the rendering is a proof of concept why in the world would anyone look at the hyperloop bridge and say "yeah, half clearance ought to be enough."

[@Kevin19700]

Spot on!

[@scottlarson1548]

The problem was that the hyperloop would have had trouble going up and down. It would have scraped along the inside of the tube during any gradient change. The proposed solution was to blast a tunnel through any inconvenient "bump" in the topography so it would travel through nothing but flat level tubes. This rendering showed how committed they were to this concept.

[@ernesto5855]

You just dont get it. They would have built a special section of the tube, that can be opened and folded upwards like some bridges in the netherlands. It is so easy, that they didnt even bother to show that part😂

[@costcorotisseriechicken2520]

@@scottlarson1548 Love that. Thank god California isn't known for natural disasters that cause the ground to shift otherwise someone could get sued.

[@scottlarson1548]

@@costcorotisseriechicken2520 Well, there actually are tunnels in California.

[@ThreeB_Do]

Such projects are always popular by the governments who failed public transport completely. In France TGV is over 40 years old and you can go across the country comfortably with 320 km/h. These projects (also air taxis etc.) always focus on carrying few people, in much discomfort whereas in a high speed train you have toilets, restaurants, child play areas and even WINDOWS for over 500 people! So everytime i see such a crazy project, i just want to shake people and yell them "JUST BUILD TRAINS". But, i guess it is easier to sell public something which looks like future, and will never be realised.

[@davidbeppler3032]

Trains are fine. It is illegal to build tracks in America.

[@jeffmorin5867]

you just reminded me of the monorail episode of the Simpsons..

[@leparfumdugrosboss4216]

There's no money to be made in using reliable cheap solutions. I mean, there's money, it's just regular money. A few millions. Not billions of crazy tech investors money for pipe dreams. And what can you do with just a few millions? That's just regular people income, that's gross 🧐

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@leparfumdugrosboss4216 No. If you want to build a train across my land you have to pay me $100 million. I own 16 acres and will not sell for less than that.

[@leparfumdugrosboss4216]

@@davidbeppler3032 so you as a land owner would make money, but I'm speaking about the people who build the train (or hyperloop, but they would have less liberty in choosing to cross your land or not, since hyperloop has to go straight). Also, mister Eminent Domain has bad news for you 😅

[@marquisdan7659]

"What if trains but way more expensive and worse" - every billionaire right now

[@guypradel8874]

They all jumped to "what if I replace all my workforce and creatives by AI" now. Billionaires are dangerous idiots.

[@doujinflip]

Basically the same mindset who use private jets instead of scheduled airlines.

[@tnbspotter5360]

Why not? They did the same with energy.

[@xeakpress]

I like where the idea is going, but can we do it in such way that is as LIKELY to fail as possible? Can we squeeze that in somehow?

[@Dug252]

It’s basically them saying “if it isn’t making ME money then nobody gets it.” Making everything privatized is a billionaires wet dream

[@ImmaKlonoa]

Imagine if people stopped trying to reinvent the train and just invested in railway infrastructure that would actually support high speed rail. EDIT: There are people in the replies that think trains are communist, that's wild.

[@TheMysteryDriver]

Almost impossible in the US unfortunately.

[@trinodot8112]

It drives me so crazy because every "new" mass transportation concept is ultimately a shittier version of the train. It's almost like the train is most efficient form of mass transportation and we're collectively too stupid to realize that.

[@Kiyoone]

LOOK CHY-NA!

[@DarkpawTheWolf]

^^^^ this

[@luodeligesi7238]

@@trinodot8112Silicon Valley tech bros don't like the train because it's more efficient than their ultimate preferred self driving robotaxi EVs

[@johnkraus4]

All those millions weren't totally wasted. At least we have the CGI cartoons.

[@Milliardo__Peacecraft]

13:13 you know a project is doomed when the concept designers can't even factor in simple things like boats.

[@bendreczko9054]

yea I was about to say, it like no engineers looked at this and told them this wont work this is a dumb idea.

[@Scorpidoo]

Even worse if you look at the concept art where they use air in a vacuum.

[@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307]

Was not created by Helies musk! its been around for 120 years he just scrounges off others!

[@colormedubious4747]

There's a damn good REASON the Golden Gate Bridge is that high above the water!

[@offensivearch]

@@Scorpidoo Hyperloop is not a vacuum (it's not a vactrain), it's a low pressure tube.

[@leiagelwasser2168]

It's almost as if the Hyperloop was mere hypothetical, designed to take money away from California HSR, and was never intended to actually be *built*.

[@Skullair313]

How could you come to that outlandish conclusion?!

[@pivotkid85]

@@Skullair313 elon actually admitted himself that hyperloop was meant to take attention away from the HSR.

[@ryszard68]

Reminds me of that money laundering outfit known as N A S A

[@nufsioohay]

​@@pivotkid85has Elon been truthful about anything? It might not be his intention but he did take tax payer money for a project that never meant to be anything more than a show piece.

[@runforestrunfpv4354]

And Tesla is an og that collects funds from lefties so Spacex gets to burn unlimited hydrocarbons for leo transport.

[@FrankyPi]

There's a perfect slogan for this. "Hyperloop - All hype, no loop". I also like thunderfoot's LOL loop meme lmao

[@andrzejostrowski5579]

I wonder what the mentioned feasibility study money was spent on. Because it sounds like it would be enough to hire a single engineer for a few hours to point out potential issues to realize that was all BS.

[@nielsdaemen]

It's a Pipedream 😂

[@ccross1210]

Yeah! They was hyped but did nothing but knock everyone for the Loop

[@ccross1210]

We were teased and beat down with the bs!

[@Kentaiga]

It took them several years to make a train that couldn't go 1/4 the speed of maglev bullet trains.

[@thorin1045]

it took decades to make meglevs, and than it was too costly to be made in large scale. the hyperloop companies decided we can make it in a few years, if we add the simple part of also making it in a vacuum tube, oh, and also making the tube on a scale that was never even considered before. surprise, they failed with the time and budget while the concept was dead from start already. the investors should sue the hype sellers, and the governments that spent money on this should be removed from office and probably jailed for wasting the taxpayers money.

[@rickb3650]

This is the single thread that runs through all the corporate welfare schemes. Get hundreds of millions in government grants to raise billions in investments to take over or kill a market/product/service.

[@stephenw2992]

It was all hype and no loop

[@origami_dream]

@@rickb3650 While never actually being profitable, just relying on continued cash infusions the whole time, setting massive amounts of wealth and labor on fire, just to funnel whatever remains upward to golden parachutes.

[@ricks5756]

It seems like they invested a lot of money into colored LED lights for the insides of their demonstration tubes ...

[@jaye1967]

Don't forget all the wonderful CGI videos.

[@oxydator]

It's a bit like an illusionist roadshow of Houdini, Copperfield and the likes - Presentation is everything and facts are secondary.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

That could’ve been a underground stop for a metro/sunway line

[@Xorthis]

Clearly there wasn't enough RGB for it to work...

[@jaye1967]

@@Xorthis 😂😂

[@mzmegazone]

One thing, throughout the video you say 'pressurized'. What you meant is DEpressurized. The idea is to pull a partial vacuum to reduce air resistance in the tubes, allowing for high speeds with reduced atmospheric drag. With magnetic levitation removing physical drag, and near vacuum removing skin drag, you can theoretically reach very high speeds without excessive energy use. But this means the pods need to be akin to high altitude aircraft, if not spacecraft. Able to handle massive pressure differentials between a sea level cabin and, ideally, near vacuum outside. For the touted 600-700mph the pressure difference would be far higher than that experienced by commercial airliners. You need a near vacuum to avoid skin heating from friction. Pulling a vacuum on such long tubes is a huge challenge too. Any stops become airlocks. And breech in the tube would allow air to rush in, perhaps explosively, which would be bad for anyone traveling at high speed in the tube. Slamming into the air would be like hitting a wall at those speeds. And if there is any breakdown, how do you get to the people in the pods? They're in a sealed tube, surrounded by vacuum. Or air least low enough pressure that it makes no difference for survivability. Which also means any leak in the pod becomes deadly, quickly. Lots of challenges.

[@davidclark4919]

i am pretty sure he means that the cabins would need to be kept pressurized since outside the cabin would be a vaccuum

[@SanchoPanza-m8m]

@@davidclark4919 That's what he should have said. Instead, he repeatedly referred to the tube as being pressurized as in 13:02.

[@Daneelro]

The situation would actually be even more challenging than for a spacecraft. The challenge with the pod barely even starts with keeping it pressurized against the vacuum outside. First, you need a system able to supply the people on-board with oxygen and remove CO2 _for several hours_ and that autonomously. Why? Because in case of an emergency, you cannot evacuate the vehicle and the tube, you'll have to wait for someone to get your pod out (after getting all the other pods between the next station and you). Second, you need a fully autonomous closed-loop air conditioning, one that can do without air circulation with an outside heat sink or other means of heat conduction. Third, you need a massive on-board battery able to power the previous two systems for several hours.

[@davidcox3076]

It's similar to the pressure differences involved with a submarine at depth. If the two pressures ever get together, someone is going to have a very bad day.

[@hthring]

thanks for that, it makes more sense, he definately got it wrong calling the tube pressurised, it just didnt make sense, but vacuum yes. its like a mag lev submarine...

[@jakezoet-jd1wk]

Tbh, looking at the Hyperloop pods, it really doesn’t make sense to travel in a pod that can carry few people, rather than a high speed train like Brightline or Acela, which carry way more passengers

[@jeremy____5747]

I rode the Shinkansen in Japan. It was a religious experience. I would go back to Japan JUST to ride the Shinkansen. Japan: Where the journey really IS the destination.

[@mrjjman2010]

You’re correct lol

[@timogul]

That's because you aren't a billionaire that doesn't want to travel with plebs.

[@kingsteve4304]

it was never supposed to make sense. It was only supposed to kill public transit lines for a long as possible.

[@jeremy____5747]

@@kingsteve4304 100 years from now, a Paiute shaman will rattle a hand drum and chant while he kneels in the dunes reclaiming Las Vegas.

[@warmachineuk]

Problems known from the start:- Thermal expansion of pipes: solvable with expansion joints but very expensive. Vacuum pipes leak: pumping out air is a large running cost. Pipe breaches: unsolvable and incoming air at almost 1 atmosphere difference turns passengers into red paste. Breakdown recovery: no known, viable procedure. Fast passenger ingress/egress from a vacuum: no known solution. Land acquisition: expensive and made worse as hyperloop requires straighter tracks than rail. Only the fourth and fifth problems might be solved with research but these received little attention. Further, individual pods is stupid as it means low passenger numbers and income. Even dumber, freight that's been travelling at sea for three weeks doesn't benefit from moving inland at 500mph. The entire thing was a collective scam and political tool to dissuade high speed rail. Transport problems? Build a ****ing train!

[@Canucklesammich]

I was waiting to see if someone would bring up the issue of land acquisition, good on you. You can't simply run a huge tube across someone's ranch or backyard for free. That alone would cost billions, and that's before any of the technical problems are addressed.

[@freewheeler8924]

And is the tube bullet proof?

[@passerby4507]

The passenger numbers thing is the most obvious problem IMO. Just compare what they have and plain old trains. Freight is beyond dumb, I don't even know where to start.

[@dougaltolan3017]

Thermal expansion and leaks. The predicted running pressure difference is tiny compared to pipelines that have no leaks. Sealing expansion joints is bordering on trivial. Pumping out air is significantly easier for hyperloop compare to an empty tube since the pods themselves will concentrate the air towards eclvacuation pumps. Pipe breaches can be mitigated by controlled bleed air ahead of the supposed wall of air. Combined with baffle doors. Baffle doors and large wall openings can provide sufficient access for recovery. Its not all maglev and can have rails or other track for works vehicles. Passenger access does not have to be fast or ftom a vaccum since track switching has been demonstrated with no moving track or tube required. Simply divert a pod to a side track at full line speed, then isolate that side track with baffle doors and increase pressure to ambient. Gotta do better than raise objections that have been solved years ago. Land acquisition, yup a project killer, as too is the expected running cost.

[@Daneelro]

Also: life support system onboard the pod for the case of an emergency, with evacuation hours away: solvable but would make the pod extremely heavy & bulky, or if you go without then a simple high-voltage cable failure could kill everyone in the tube by suffocation.

[@SpottedHares]

Hyper loop reminds me how there was this fun little experiment where people were asked to try and invent the wheel while not just copying the already existing axel design. Needless to say it was in fact really hard to invent the wheel with out inventing a worse wheel. Sometimes old technology existed first was because it was the optimal mix of practically, efficiently, and simplicity.

[@vandarkholme4745]

Why do pesky things like physics always stand in the way of brilliant start-up ideas

[@samuelglover7685]

If you're as fundamentally ignorant as Musk has demonstrated himself to be, your imagination can really take flight! That's the kind of genius-level mind that claims that the stupid hype loop "Is not that hard!"

[@davidbeppler3032]

No physics problem with the hyperloop.

[@scottlarson1548]

I enjoyed their CGI depictions of Hyperloop trains making sharp 90 degree turns at 600 miles an hour.

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@scottlarson1548 Same thing happens in airplanes! Splat!

[@scottlarson1548]

@@davidbeppler3032 ????? Airplanes do not make sharp 90 degree turns at 600 MPH.

[@jeremy____5747]

All of this "innovation": Hyperloop, self-driving cars, Uber/Lyft: All of it just a huge, HUGE workaround to avoid building passenger rail and subways.

[@SRParsonage]

Yup. The nonsense Vegas loop is an example. CEO of a car company thinks cars are the future. Im shocked!

[@jeremy____5747]

@@SRParsonage I just bought an electric car, myself. It was a $14,000 Chevrolet Bolt. This year they'll install adapters so I can use Tesla chargers. Thanks for the subsidy, 60K Tesla buyers!

[@brick6347]

@@jeremy____5747 yeah, but the suburbs are essentially a Ponzi scheme so your electric car is basically a pat on the back rather than a solution.

[@SawedOffLaser]

People keep inventing "The Train: But Worse" over and over again because, at least in the US, we have this bizarre aversion to trains.

[@the.abhiram.r]

@@jeremy____5747 as someone who has driven a tesla before, they are absolute dogshit with buggy software, broken safety features and rapidly depreciating range. but it's fast, and that's all that matters! /s

[@fabianb8847]

I was just baffled at how obvious it was that this is not going to work and how adamantly some people insisted it would, insulting anyone pointing out the flaws. And their defence would always be something like "the best engineers in the world are working on it" or "do you think they would invest millions if it didnt work?". There were never any answers to fundamental questions like "how do you even get in?"

[@Daneelro]

In addition to the logical fallacy of the argument from authority, too many people don't even have a basic concept of physics & engineering, and take their cues from renderite.

[@leparfumdugrosboss4216]

Another great exemple of "private capital allowing funds optimally" 🙄

[@electric7487]

Good ideas don't mind being challenged. Bad ideas HATE being challenged.

[@johnkraus4]

There is always money to be made in stupid s#!t.

[@k.chriscaldwell4141]

@@DaneelroYup. Just Regurgitaters. No thinking. And don’t challenge their regurgitant with logic. They don’t like that.

[@brettabraham]

Over the years, I would occasionally be reminded of Hyperloop and get really excited about it. Then I'd realize that I was just actually excited about trains.

[@tytothetoetaker9788]

But not just any train. a vacuum sealed train. Still dumber than normal ass trains. But you have correctly reached train enlightenment. Good job.

[@YukariAkiyama]

@@tytothetoetaker9788If i put a hard, cylinder shaped object in a vacuum cleaner, does that count as a Hyperloop?

[@tytothetoetaker9788]

@@YukariAkiyama is the cylinder object a toy train

[@numberonedad]

your mistake was believing one of the biggest fraudsters in human history.

[@YukariAkiyama]

@@tytothetoetaker9788 No. it is hard and made of organic material

[@Blaze6108]

I just want to point out that the curve at 4:13 would just instantly rip apart and explode the pod out of the tube if you took it at 700 Mph. High speed rail usually does up to 200 Mph and if you look at satellite pictures it has wider curves than that, even on old lines that weren't built to support speed boosts.

[@nicholaseckhart7900]

Yeah, that's why I always thought it was stupid for these hyperloop concepts to always show it running above land. There's too many obstacles running just above ground level in all but a few places (like the middle of nowhere). In most cases, if something like this was going to be built, it would have to be bored out underground or run under the ocean to connect continents. All this infrastructure would cost a fortune to build out.

[@jschudel777]

@@nicholaseckhart7900 Hence, airliners flying above ground obstacles, above weather and at max performance air density.

[@Daneelro]

@@nicholaseckhart7900 Costing a fortune would be no problem if it were a sensible option of mass transportation that can expect long-term stable income - like high-speed rail or subways (or even airports). But those pods have a fraction of the carrying capacity of trains, the pods _and_ the tubes are a death trap in case of any emergency (forget explosive depressurization or tube implosion or earthquakes: you'll just suffocate if there is a power loss or leak and the pods get stuck in the tunnel for hours), maintaining this would be a nightmare (it's already damn difficult to find a leak in an overpressurized vessel, it's near impossible for a large vacuum chamber; and you'll have to stop, pressurize and then re-depressurize for any small repairs), you cannot rely on connections to existing infrastructure (like say HSR which can continue on conventional rail), and so on.

[@Daneelro]

Yep. Curve radii on the never TGV lines in France have minimum curve radiuses above 4 miles, you'd need much more at the proposed Hyperloop speeds. Reminds me of the Brad Pitt film Bullet Train, which takes place onboard a fictional Japanese train. The film was made on the basis of a Japanese book, but it was so obviously made for a US audience with no clue about rail travel, it's full of painfully unrealistic CGI, including whizzing by tight curves and bad guys just casually walking along the train roof next to the high-voltage catenary...

[@realDonaIdTruck]

"Too close to fly, too long to drive" you mean the definition of high speed rail. Already exists in the rest of the developed world, no bankruptcy required

[@Mattrellen86]

A lot of ideas that originate with Musk have come around in order to pressure american cities and states against investing in public transportation. Don't invest in high speed rail, because we have the hyperloop coming! Don't invest in expanded bus services, you'll look silly when the self driving cars replace those! Don't invest in a subway system, not when we can build tons of car tunnels! Any analysis of many of Musk's ideas is incomplete without looking at how those ideas have been used to shut down public transportation expansion. They aren't meant to be ideas that succeed, just ideas that can be around long enough to shut down proposals of transportation options that already exist and keep people in cars. Almost like the guy benefits from car dependency somehow...

[@mrbojangles8133]

also expensive to build, just saying. Basically the same

[@rdramos13]

"Rest of the world" also doesn't have the land mass as continental US. They said it in the video, San Francisco to Los Angeles is a five hour drive. Five hours of driving and you are still in one state. Five hours of driving you can be in several different countries in Europe. Things become a lot cheaper when you're having to pay for something that just needs to go 50+ miles in your own country, as opposed to 382 miles. That's not even including the type of terrain of the land that they'd need to build on. Construction on mountains, or over rivers/streams all adds to costs. Also bullet trains are not the same as hyperloop trains.

[@nottrevorallen]

passenger rail infrastructure is good, so actually build it. we want high speed rail as a vanity project, to show america "still has it". we're skipping the fact that japan had to build high speed rail to reduce usage of its existing and hugely built out low speed passenger network. its the reason it works there. its the reason it works elsewhere. so do it here.

[@rdramos13]

@@nottrevorallen Cargo rail structure is good, that's the majority of train usage in the states. So, are you asking train companies to just give up, or sell their own train lines? They've spent billions to maintain and keep those lines in operation, so don't expect them to just give them away. Plus they already have negotiated, and have contracts/agreements to the land rights for those lines. Don't think all those regular people, probably mostly farmers and ranchers, to just give up money they get from the railroads to lease off their land. This video never even talked about the cost of paying leases or rent to land owners. Those support beams need to planted down on someone's land. Plus, these are hyperloops, not train lines. Still would have to tear out existing train lines, to replace with the different line configurations for hyperloops. Also how would you just replace train lines to hyperloops without slowing down all the cargo freight being shipped? Cars, trucks, grain, food, coal, electronics, military equipment, medical supplies, etc etc get shipped by train to all over the country. Slowing down transportation of goods, would create more inflation. COVID showed everyone how the supply hubs slowing down made everyone crazy, and made every store run out of toilet paper.

[@DrThalnos]

In the san Francisco chronicle they report thT : Musk reportedly told his biographer, Ashlee Vance, that the Hyperloop proposal was motivated by “his hatred for California’s proposed high-speed rail system,” which he felt would be too slow, outdated and expensive. “With any luck, the high-speed rail would be canceled,” Vance wrote.

[@merylcruz3820]

I think he should be legally prosecuted for this. Do you have any idea how much better California would be with more ways to eschew cars?

[@samuelglover7685]

@@merylcruz3820 The SEC needs to get serious and go after him for stock fraud. Musk's only demonstrated "genius" lies in pump and dump schemes. But aside from him, every idiot county councilman who endorsed one of Musk's idiotic tunnel schemes needs to suffer consequences.

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@merylcruz3820 I agree. People should not have rights. Take those away and just build the trains. Problem solved.

[@icehuckboys3086]

​@@merylcruz3820 Yes we should jail people for ideas you dont like with hindsight

[@foximacentauri7891]

@@merylcruz3820 Elon is a en egomaniac and an asshole, but unfortunately that's not a crime. What he did was highly immoral, but the blame is on all those elon dick riders who took his "idea" and hailed it as the holy grail instead of laughing about it.

[@_Piers_]

I think I'm remembering correctly - the single manned test they did, it wasn't in a vacuum. So it was just a not terribly quick, tiny sled in a tube.

[@thabzmad7265]

Someone rigged a roller-coaster sledge 😂

[@viktors_anfimovs]

Sounds like something like that already exists... 🤔

[@EazyTiger]

Aye they basically built that weird tunnel chute from the Running man

[@TheOchita]

Shoutout to @thunderfoot for calling out the hyperloop since day one.

[@davidbeppler3032]

thundarfeet believes the Model Y is vaporware. Keep that in mind.

[@TheOchita]

@davidbeppler3032 don't remember him saying that, but I believe you, i properly don't agree with him in that case 😉 (as a tesla owner myself) but there is plenty vaporware to go around, like the tesla bot and semi.

[@ProtoMarcus]

​@@davidbeppler3032 *EDIT* - Mistook Thunderf00t with ADAM SOMETHING - who has since changed the video title and added a specific description and all. The video title is now "Electric Buses are a scam*" (and the asterisk explanation is in the description) ---- He (Adam Something, not Thunderf00t) also believes electric busses in cities is a dumb idea (it isn't for a plethora reasons) I don't always agree with Thunderfoot but more often than not his content is incredibly valid - I just hope people don't start taking _immediately_ trusting or agreeing with him blindly ahahaha

[@toomanyaccounts]

@@ProtoMarcus electric buses either catch on fire when it is hot or don't work when it is cold. fyi we have electric trams that are over a century old that work better and more reliable than electric buses.

[@ProtoMarcus]

@@toomanyaccounts We've had electric buses for a while in Montréal and they've been working perfectly fine through frigid winters and hot summers. They are not the best choice for every environment or setting (urban vs suburbs, etc) but for downtown transit they are not at all a dumb idea (quieter, cleaner, etc) And Québec produces a lot of electricity (... but doesn't know how to properly use it...) so energy isn't an issue either The video wasn't debating the pros and cons, it was blindly claiming Electric Buses are a dumb idea period. And even with your points, it can be reasonably debated that they may not be the best solution within those conditions, but they can still be an excellent solution within other conditions They definitely have issues - but they're not dumb (in most settings!)

[@jamesvandale9884]

I love the concept photo of the hyperloop in parallel to the Golden Gate Bridge. It’s too bad that a cargo ship will crush the hyperloop on its way to the Bay area ports.

[@AlmightyRager95]

I was gonna comment something regarding that; it's sitting wayyy too low for ships to pass through. Good to know it wasn't just me who noticed.

[@RichieRouge206]

I thought that too!

[@dukenukem5768]

Funny that ships need to pass that point to reach one of Musk's Tesla car export wharfs.

[@CSXIV]

Even better: if the cargo ship was carrying parts that would go toward making the new hyperloop. In fact, here are my imagined headlines: “Ill advised hyperloop spawning the Golden Gate destroyed by cargo ship carrying parts for the hyperloop system.” “Traffic on Golden Gate Bridge unaffected by impact.: “Marin County Resident: ‘We rejected a proposal to bring BART to Marin; why did we allow this?’” “Golden Gate Bridge Authority: ‘remember that proposal to build a second, lower deck on the Golden Gate Bridge for BART? Just saying, that was far enough over the water to allow cargo ships.” “Muskrat simps: ‘Advances in science and technology will allow us to make the bridge immune to cargo ship impact.’” “Opinion: forget how ridiculous Hyperloop is: what was the POINT of running a hyperloop connecting San Francisco to Marin County? The distances and number of people involved make it infeasible for HSR. The area would be better served with a commuter rail. Like that proposal to have BART run on a new lower deck for the Golden Gate Bridge (okay, I didn’t intend to bring that up three times. But it was a real proposal).

[@556m4]

@@CSXIVMy thought was how many people are traveling from LA to San Fran like that ? It’s not that many. It’s not like NY to DC or Boston. Fucking dumb. It’s almost like they do no research.

[@brandonbollwark5970]

That one hyperloop test with two people looked really interesting but we could improve it with a few simple tweaks. First, we could up the capacity by taking multiple pods and coupling them together. this would make it so that more people can travel along one route at one time. Next the tunnel its inside of is unnecessary and adds unneeded cost to the project. Getting rid of it would not one decrease the cost but it would also increase passenger experience by allow them to look out windows on the pods. Instead of the tunnel, we could put the pods on fixed tracks that would allow them to reach high speeds while still guiding the pods with the added bonus of allowing windows. it also allows for the size of the pods to be increased adding more capacity and comfort for passengers, even allowing them to walk around to go to the bathroom or even a cafe pod! Truly revolutionizing I can't wait to see what they will inovate next!

[@omega8719]

You watching too many Adam Something. Me too man. I want train and tram everywhere. My country got decent intercity train. Not high speed but there are many commuter. But lack public transport for inside city.

[@necavenue]

LMFAO....are you stupid or a bot? You're describing a TRAIN. The whole point of hyperloop is the use of vacuum tubes. I guess you could make the tubes transparent using thick acrylic and add windows into the capsule/pod if you want to keep the pipedream alive...🤣

[@zen1647]

Yeah. Adam something seems to get too much enjoyment out of showing how awesome trains are, and how smooth brained the Hyperloop idea was.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

It just a train XD

[@benjicool2808]

when people understand that the speed trains are not quick because of their speed, but because of their efficiency (own tracks, straight lines, capacity) - the world will be a better place

[@Jjjipoasdp]

What if we had something that had all the logistical and planning issue of a train line, but then had even more issues and could kill everyone inside from a small hole?

[@SofaKingShit]

Fun times if one if those technical issues meant that passengers had to be transferred from one train, sorry from one pod to another pod whilst in the tunnels. Guess you would have to fill the tube up with air for safety redundancy and then once everything is fine then wait a few days for it all to be pumped out again. Or just take some chances on transferring those passengers under vacuum, l mean it would probably be alright as long as nothing unforseen should occur and how often does anything like that ever happen anyhow?

[@acepokemontrainer1]

I remember seeing the announcements and plans for these projects and all the different companies that were trying to pull it off. It was really exciting and felt "futuristic" imagining we could live in an optimized era of travel, one that has high speed transportation, greatly decreasing travel times between large cities... oh wait, that exists (in other countries) already :(

[@ferociousgumby]

I wonder if they had the same PR company as Segway.

[@johnp139]

It was dumb and obviously I’ll conceived!!!

[@demilung]

When I was a pre-teen in east Ukraine in the 2000s, my mom got me a subscription to a journal called "Young Erudite". It had a bunch of popular science articles, including a section on "future technology" - basically concepts and ideas of what we could potentially have in the future. One of those was about a potential future transport system which consited of tubes with air removed through which sleek looking carts on magnetic rails could speed through without any air resistance. In no way was the concept of Hyperloop Musk's original idea, at best he only made up the name. But Musk use to have the kind of image and pull to build hype for things like these.

[@DedmenMiller]

The concept wthout vacuum goes back to the 1800s, a specific vacuum implementation was even patented in the 50s (US2511979). But people just knew it would be too stupidly expensive to ever build, so no one did it. Until a certain person made waves with "his" genius idea and pushed people to waste billions of dollars for a stupid idea that in the end didn't work and fizzled out. I wonder what caused humanity to decline so far that a "this is a stupid waste of money and won't work, let's not do that" managed to turn to a "woohoo Elon wooooooo let's goo!"

[@AmusementLabs]

There was a video that pointed out the underlying mission of hyper loop was explicitly to direct money away from high speed rail projects, purely out of spite and/or profit.

[@dang3304]

This is what frustrates me about this channel and a few others. They deliberately distory the story to fit their format. Hyperloop one wasn't really a startup that failed. It was a lobbying campaign. Once you know that this entire video becomes pointless.

[@TurdyMcTurdface]

But wait, I thought government was good at investing.

[@youshimimi]

Profit more than spite. Look up how much lobbying against rail have car & plane companies done throughout the years. The amount of money spent on legal bribes is astounding. The biggest fail of US "democracy" is that politicians can be openly bought to protect interests of companies over their own people. Until that changes, nothing will ever improve for the people.

[@Ayasegaki]

@@TurdyMcTurdface they are, just not for the people.

[@nathantomerlin1123]

Pretty much all of the alternate transit proposals you see these days from silicon Valley and elsewhere fit into this category. There is an extreme aversion to investing in what works (trains and buses) while companies like hyperloop can just burn endless amounts of money. Truly perplexing

[@Stealth86651]

To the surprise of no one who had a basic understanding of transportation and infrastructure. They took a train and managed to make it magnitudes more expensive, less reliable, more complex and remove the entire selling point of trains; they move stuff cheaply and reliably.

[@johnp139]

Not to mention physics and physiology.

[@triforcelink]

Even if they just built the tunnels between two popular destinations, those could have been used for something else, even if hyperloop didn’t work out, they couldn’t even do that. They were stuck in concept lala land.

[@hahanamegobrrr6667]

Every time something tries to reinvent transport they reinvent the train

[@NiekNooijens]

But worse and more expensive

[@MarshallDog]

I'll say it was a lot of fun being a railroad design engineer in 2010 when everyone was asking about the Hyperloop. Elon Musk basically ruined investment in public transit infrastructure for the past 20 years because everyone thought trains were ancient technology.

[@davidbeppler3032]

So... how do you get around not being allowed to build railroad tracks? It has nothing to do with trains. Tracks are illegal in America.

[@MarshallDog]

@@davidbeppler3032 ...huh?

[@stephenw2992]

Trains are 1800's technology. Being stuck on tracks makes it largely uneconomical other than for bulk goods.

[@passerby4507]

​​​@@stephenw2992Did you ever read anything about the economics of rail transport? It amazes me how you can say something so utterly wrong with such confidence.

[@25439]

​@@davidbeppler3032 being smart and thinkjng about the future is illegal in america, along with being happy & owning property.

[@michaelfourie]

so a fun fact about those early attempts in the 19th century: one design had a leather flap that had be opened and closed at certain times to make the atmospheric train (as they were called then, and in my opnion way better of a name than hyperloop) work, now to make sure the flap was properly sealed a mixture of beeswax and tallow was used, this lead to two problems: 1. that seal easily melted in heat, which while actually being part of the design, it meant that on a particularly hot summer in 1846 the seal wouldn't work properly and so the trains couldn't work properly. 2. The second major problem was that they used tallow, which was very attractive to rats, who would enter the pipes to eat through the seal. and then when they turned on the pumps everyday to operate the trains alot of them would die. there were also many other problems that that and other attempts had, but just the whole history of them is actually quite interesting (especially with how they already had run into quite a few of the problems that the modern attempts have run into, but were still able to make relatively functional versions for short distances, if only for a short while each time).

[@snooganslestat2030]

Interesting, thanks for the information.

[@MrLurker906]

Ah yes, the smell of beef and rats getting turned into a fine paste. Well, there's your problem.

[@evaluateanalysis7974]

"so a fun fact" That was a quite different project. It was called the "Atmospheric Railway". The passengers travelled in a normal railway carriage. The tube was underneath the train. In the tube was a piston which was attached to the train. Air was evacuated ahead of the piston, so air pressure behind it pushed it forwards. This one was designed by Brunel, but there were others.

[@thebluehat6814]

this isnt' actually what you think it is. the design involved a train with above the tube that was pushed by the air underneath it.

[@SofaKingShit]

Well there's your problem.

[@suzuplaza]

im sure there is no correlation between the time california started funding high speed rail and musk releasing "his" hyperloop idea...

[@volvo09]

Musk's companies have sucked up many billions in government funding. Both Tesla and space X have received massive payments. I don't doubt for one bit this was another scheme to grab money for his buddys, or get in on some stock before pumping it.

[@Speed001]

That's the biggest scam. Somehow he got his name attached to an ancient idea. Same thing with Tesla, then Twitter.

[@kR-qj7rw]

once you realize its some corpo dog reusing an old idea, making it a personal ego project and that it was to spite a government infrastructure already planned all the jank makes sense

[@borisstanislav4560]

Hyperloop One and Solar Freaking Roads will be part of the transportation infrastructure of 'Neom the City of the Future'😂

[@alfgwahigain5544]

Yes, those two scams are like peas in a pod.

[@richardmetzler7909]

Fittingly, it was just announced that "NEOM the Line" was scaled down to a more manageable length of 2.5 km (down from 160). Reality is what bites you in the rear even if you don't believe in it.

[@RhelrahneTheIdiot]

@@richardmetzler7909 Don't worry, it'll be scaled down to a more manageable length of non existent soon enough.

[@Goprof150]

Those were simpler times

[@churblefurbles]

@@alfgwahigain5544 Not at all, one was definitely a grift, the other was obviously the Glomar Explorer.

[@2000jago]

I love how the two "humans" from the 100mph test exit the vehicle as if they've just accomplished something incredible like walking on a moon. Calm down folks. You did nothing but sit in a chair for a few minutes as it traversed a tube. You didn't reinvent the wheel.

[@niksoncutts]

I like how you put humans in quotation marks, as if there's a possibility they were androids or something. 🤣

[@Kevin19700]

Good one!😂

[@Darrylizer1]

They didn't even reinvent the train.

[@WestCoastAce27]

Typical Richard Branson 🤡 show.

[@freewheeler8924]

It looked pretty damn bumpity bumpy too. Woops! Hot coffee in your lap.

[@GusCaravalho]

Great video. I’d only add one small bit of context that I’ve also seen other commenters mention: to fully understand the purpose of that Musk white paper, you need to understand the situation with high speed rail in the 00s in California and what Musk thought its impact on Tesla sales might be. Hyperloop was never intended to actually be built. It was intended to prevent high speed rail from being built.

[@gordon1545]

If the tunnel breaks, everyone dies. If the pod depressurises, everyone dies. If the pod derails, everyone dies. And these things are vastly more likely to happen with the technology they were using than anything you'd find on a plane.

[@jeffreychongsathien]

And the genius of wanting to build one in an earthquake zone...

[@mapesdhs597]

Add to that the potential for terrorist attacks, crazy people and just basic force majeure (eg. a truck crash wrecks the tube), plus of course earthquakes, storms and other weather phenomena, all the while ignoring problems such as thermal expansion, the list goes on and on. EEvblog and others covered this so many times, likewise with solar roadways and other grift projects that just suck up state and investor spending. In the science rags, I remember, a lot of these ideas were promoted on the back of "hope" and other wishy washy notions that all derived from emotional sophistic twaddle, melded with eco hype. One sees the same thing with pod transport in cities, it's just an excuse to spend, while those who point out the obvious flaws at the beginning are ignored or shouted down.

[@Daneelro]

Also, even if there is just a power loss or non-explosive depressurization and all the pods travelling get stuck, everyone dies unless they have a method to get the pods out of the tube and quickly. Because you cannot evacuate from the pods while in the tunnel, all the air you have is in the pod, and all the CO2 you breathe out stays in the pod. You could solve these problems with a life support system like on a spaceship, only even more elaborate because you cannot power the system with solar cells (you'll need batteries instead) and cannot lose heat with big radiators. All this would make your pod much larger & heavier, with more mass & machinery per passenger than normal rail or maglev, while your track is already more expensive per mile. (People forget that Elon's only real contribution to the 100-year-old vacuum train idea was to keep the pods away from the walls with air cushion - but all the franchised developers quickly realised that this won't work as the pods would smash onto the walls from the smallest disturbance while the vacuum pumps would struggle to get out the added air. Hence the maglev in vacuum, which is already more expensive track than even normal maglev.)

[@mapesdhs597]

@@Daneelro It always was a rather contradictory notion that there would be an air cushion while at the same time the air pressure would be low to reduce friction (in which case, what air cushion?). The devil is as usual in the nuance. Same thing with Musk's witterings about Mars, it was all hype and hope, but the media and science rags went nuts for it, completely ignoring the dozens of very serious practical, engeering, legal and ethical problems involved. I was especially shocked that science mags ignored the real issues. But there are I suppose those who hang off Musk's every word, and investors who follow along, or public entities happy to throw free stuff at whoever has jumped onto the relevant bandwagon. It's frustrating because sometimes what he says and does about free speech issues, speaking out against certain elite classes, wokeness, etc. has significant merit, but it's sadly often not consistent. He really is quite the oddball. The Mars thing was a shame though because he didn't come up with or invent anything, it was nothing more than a call for "ideas", which kicked off a whole wave of complete insanity where actual experts in the field were ignored, while instead people who knew nothing about rocketry, space engineering, ec. were encouraged to submit suggestions (ie. the general public, as if they have a flying clue). Funny how this absurd MO is not promoted when someone wants brain surgery. :}

[@restoreleader]

@@Daneelro And all this to carry 10 people per train, how could anybody invest into it and expect anything but total loss :D

[@ZS-bg7jo]

You know what is neat? When ACTUAL scientists and engineers (who do not work for the company) look at the CONCEPT and universally say "um... this will not work without MASSIVE leaps in materials sciences.' Then someone asked what failure looks like... and 100% fatality kept coming up... THEN someone actually calculated capacity and pointed out that the ROI was a negative number.There is a reason Elon does not trust experts... they seem to report reality and not his talking points. This is almost open scam territory as fundraising was sold on a 'trust us... this will work' basis. I am frankly surprised he was not on Titan, what with the corporate ideological synergy he has with OceanGate's safety philosophy.

[@jondeforge8266]

Eon actually did listen to the experts, that's why he didn't invest any of his time or resources into developing any hyperloop projects.

[@dang3304]

Scam how? Elon openly said it wasn't worth him persuing, and he didn't take money from anyone else that did pursue it. The people involved aren't idiots, they knew that this was going to be difficult to achieve, but when you're a university student its more interesting to be challenged to solve a problem that doesn't have a solution than working on something more mundane.

[@TurdyMcTurdface]

​@@Axel_Andersen such a fine individual you are

[@kathym3188]

Mid 2010s were such a neat time in retrospect. The whole hyperloop thing appeared when I was starting college for mechanical engineering. Everyone I talked to said basically „nah, that’s never going to happen“ not even because of the engineering side of things, but bc the infrastructure needed to be built was so much more complex than rail. But still everyone loved the project. If these rich people have the money to sink into this, then why deny fellow engineers the job opportunity. Also, material sciences could make another step with that kind of requirement and investment. I can’t imagine such a mindset post pandemic Back then we didn’t realize how it was going to mess up public transportation investment, sadly.

[@Axel_Andersen]

@@kathym3188 Your last sentence answers your rhetorical question "why deny fellow engineers the job opportunity" . We should not allow rich people affect our llife with BS talk, weather it is Musk or Trump. We should hold them to as high standard as anyone of our mates. I'm up to hear with these people lying all the time and getting away with it.

[@yugen0o]

Just depressurizing the tube and keeping it depressurized at a near-vacuum is a daunting engineering challenging that only got more daunting as the segment distance increases. And then add in all the depressurization / repressurization failure scenarios and how do you give the passengers a reasonable chance to survive? Maybe they should have started with optimizing existing mag-lev technology where 200-300+ MPH is real today.

[@johnkraus4]

Ya think?

[@twokool4skool129]

Great video. The real problem with the Hyperloop is that it was neither hyper, nor a loop. It was fairly slow and only went in a straight line.

[@mrbob8618]

Loop means returns back

[@SAJR1986]

aside from all the other issues, putting a jet engine into a vacuum tube; even just in an artists rendition, should have raised all the red flags

[@watsisbuttndo829]

Its in a vaccum, and theres a big ass fan on the front. Ooookkkkaaàyyyyyy.

[@tordarbast]

True noticed that when this was ongoing😂😂😂 Its actually hard to believe how easy it is too fool people, especially people with high salaries.

[@nathantomerlin1123]

When you get to that level, most of the people won't have any practical technical experience. It becomes an exercise in marketing and generating hype for the next funding round.

[@FrankyPi]

Musk literally talked about it being levitated on air skis, inside a depressurized tube... That tells you all you need to know about the claims of him being an "engineer". More like a cosplay engineer lmao

[@ultraali453]

The investors are dumb for putting money into this

[@ceasetheday87]

Think about this. 🤔 In the United States, the most common cause of *personal bankruptcy* is medical bills. The most common cause of *bankruptcy for municipalities* is infrastructure projects.

[@Daneelro]

But, also think about this: *both* of these are unique to the US in the developed world. Should tell you that something is (or even multiple somethings are) very wrong in the US economic model.

[@Shinobubu]

The common cause of Medical bills is OBESITY.

[@Croz89]

Is it? I would think unsustainable service burdens would be more likely. Budgets for roads in most US cities is only around 2-4%, so that alone seems unlikely to cause bankruptcy. Maybe a really bad water or electricity system could be a cause? In the UK council bankruptcies are either down to rather unique circumstances like legal disputes or overwhelming service burdens like social care.

[@ceasetheday87]

@@Croz89 Infrastructure goes far beyond roads, potable water, or electricity. Bridges cost far more to build and maintain than roads, handling sewer water or rain water is more expensive than potable water, and electricity is primarily handled by private industry as far as I know. It’s hard to say between the US and the UK, but the legal disputes that you speak of may be related to an infrastructure project.

[@ceasetheday87]

@@Daneelro Bankruptcy from infrastructure projects are not unique to the United States. Think about how much it must cost to rebuild public infrastructure after a war.

[@claudiobizama5603]

Leave it to Silicon Valley billionaires to reinvent the high speed train and fail So far the only viable option would be maglev, but even that is stupidly expensive. Just make a big network of regular high speed rail.

[@Labyrinth6000]

Dont support HSR, it will only increase taxes, especially for half the voters who prefer to drive or fly everywhere.

[@redbullsauberpetronas]

The distances in America make planes way more practical

[@AL-lh2ht]

@@redbullsauberpetronasthere are in fact many cities that next to each other. You would take a train ride form LA to New York uou would take a train between all the massive cities next to each other.

[@redbullsauberpetronas]

@@AL-lh2ht I'm guessing you've never lived in the Midwest or any less populated western state, that would never be practical in the parts of the country I've lived in

[@hannahp1108]

@@redbullsauberpetronas We connected the east and west coast with rail lines in the literal 1800s. I think we could figure it out. Also, the contiguous US is not as big as China and they seem to have figured out the whole rail over massive distances thing.

[@russchadwell]

There needs to be a miniature version that helps bank tellers.

[@liljasere]

You are not gonna believe this

[@CaptainXJ]

Or like the entire city of New York.

[@bobsmith3983]

Or Costco point of sale stations. LOL!

[@jeremy____5747]

We've solved mass transit for hamsters!

[@KM-bu5yw]

It is so weird that there were employees with physics or engineering degrees who had to pretend this idea is not ridiculous.

[@jaboba69]

Weird and kinda scary. All those clowns who were in college making hyperloop go carts are doing real work now.

[@andyt2510]

Surprised Richard Branson got involved because - as someone who ran a UK based rail company (Virgin Trains) over infrastructure that was in part designed by Isambard Kingdom Brunel, he should of been aware of one of Brunel's rare failures - an air-powered railway that ran on tubes and propelled by compressed air. Not to 600MPH, or even 60! I believe some parts of his Atmospheric Railway are preserved in a museum in the UK somewhere (at Didcot Railway Centre I believe)

[@larryc1616]

He bankrupted his hyperloop and Virgin galactic

[@tordarbast]

Brunel thats a real engineer

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

@@tordarbast EXACTLY!

Killing investment in legacy mass transit was the goal of Hyperloop. In that regard it was a huge success.

[@TylerDurden-pk5km]

Another job well done - who wants to invest in legacy things.

[@RisottoNero-z1w]

​@@TylerDurden-pk5kmhumans.

[@RhelrahneTheIdiot]

Oh wait no it failed, CHSR is still going through and there are even private investors getting involved in the HSR game (Brightline will get to true HSR eventually, give them time)

[@churblefurbles]

That was a side benifit, it really was another Glomar Explorer.

[@theblah12]

@@TylerDurden-pk5kmBecause unlike fanciful, unproven concepts like Hyperloop, they actually work? Millions of people already travel by high speed rail each day, it’s a proven and mature mode of transport.

[@pineapplesareyummy6352]

There is already high-speed rail. They run at 350 km/h in China, and the next upgrade will see trains run at 400 km/h. Trains in Asia can be anywhere from 8 to 16 carriages long, carrying thousands of people at a time.

[@jordanwhite352]

I think this is the fastest I've ever clicked on a Bright Sun video!

[@valeriepark9444]

Anyone notice that the "pods" have approximately the same shape and size as that titanic sub?

[@DavidBrown-bs7gg]

Yep.. and massive pressure differentials wasn't a problem at all....

[@lharwest1571]

I think that incident was the final nail in the coffin for this.. It made people afraid of this thing.

[@VegasMilgauss]

A literal pipe dream.

[@JulioOther]

Hyperloop was unveiled during the time when most people still loved Elon Musk. If you question his ideas, there will be a horde of people who will attack you. In the past, he wasn't very open about his political views, but now, people were quick to question his new idea.

[@ArtimusDragon]

Yup, before the real elon emerged, I genuinely thought that this guy gets it. Then I did some digging and OMG, what a clown! He's a complete fake. A modern day sleaze ball who pretends to be something he's not all because he has access to mommy and daddy's money. Anyone who does business with him at this point is just stupid.

[@defies4626]

People pointing out how deranged he's openly gotten are still getting dogpiled now, tbh.

[@larryc1616]

Fascist space karen has failed his hyperloop, boring company and X4chan 2.0

[@Unbiased321]

He was never involved in the Hyperloop, he just encouraged people to pursue the idea.

[@PeteC62]

Thunderf00t, to name but one, immediately called out hyperloop for the nonsense it is. And, yes, he got dogpiled by the Musk fanbois and gurls ("All hail the whitepaper!")

[@Pretender1147]

WTYP Gang, where you at? I will admit, wasn't expecting you to cover this topic BSF. Good Video! Breaking into non-car transport is interesting. I wonder what a Bankrupt Penn Central would look like, it is a very layered topic.

[@sweetprimrose]

sup

[@Toberumono]

Hi!

the 42 billion Elon lit on fire with Twitter might've helped a bit here.

[@at0mly]

Americans will do anything to avoid just building high speed rail even though we've known for decades it's by far the most efficient and practical form of transit and the only one that will work if we actually want to tackle climate change and traffic.

[@ItsDemiMondaine]

climate change LMAO

[@PwnyDwn]

These climate loonies make no sense... Everything is about the climate.. aside from nothing we do having anything to do with it lol

[@enisra_bowman]

@@PwnyDwn is an adult around that can explain a thermometer for you?` and maybe also explain the concept of "making it way worse"?

[@enisra_bowman]

@@ItsDemiMondaine look Buddy, if you would watch News Programms and not Nazis, you might notice how more frequent bad weather got ... or that spring is earlier every year

[@oldmanramblingatclouds]

But proper trains means we'd have to share spaces with... *poors! And **_brown people!_*

[@broadwaybaby348]

Hyperloop: we have a better way to move cargo. UPS, Fed Ex, DHL: really?

[@imnotsure9407]

Also Train.

[@jeremy____5747]

My first job out of college was driving the courier vehicle used to deliver donor organs from the airport to the hospital. Literally the MOST time-sensitive cargo. And even they told me to obey all posted speed limits 100 percent of the time, no matter what. High speed cargo is a fully solved problem: No one needs their Stuff faster than they are already getting it.

[@RhelrahneTheIdiot]

@@jeremy____5747 That's a fucking wild first job if ever I've heard one, out of all the things you could've done and THAT happens to fall into your lap?

[@jeremy____5747]

@@RhelrahneTheIdiot I needed a job and the job was open. The vehicle was marked ("American Red Cross Biomedical Services") and in theory I could have called for a police escort if there was a traffic jam and I was stuck for more than like 15 mins, but it never actually happened.

[@MbisonBalrog]

@@jeremy____5747did you need special licensing ?

[@jonathantan2469]

The funny thing is that the "old tech" Brightline trains are now up & running, and making a profit... with another planned for California to Nevada. While the Hyperloop is still a dusty test track in the desert.

[@stevens1041]

Exactly. Everyone throws cost out the window. Thailand and India both realized this, which is why they modernized legacy train systems--many people cannot afford a high speed rail ticket, but using engineering (replacing worn out rails, updating ties and ballast, improving stations) can make a modest investment very effective. I very much like high speed rail but some nations need to fix what they already have before breaking the bank. Viet Nam is a country that also did that--Saigon to Hanoi high speed rail cost ballooned to be equal to one year's national government budget--unacceptable in a country still struggling to modernize basic infrastructure.

[@MrMakeDo]

There were always so many substantial problems with the fundamental concept of how this would work that were never answered. How do you maintain a vacuum chamber that’s hundreds of miles long? What happens if a pod breaks down halfway? What if there’s a failure of the tube? How is oxygen even supplied to people inside a pod that’s inside a vacuum tube? It creates more problems than it solves.

[@OmegaZyion]

If you want to know the reason why the hyperloop was always a pipe dream, just look up "railroad tank car vacuum implosion" on KZbin. And that was a very small pressure vessel crushed by one atmosphere of pressure. Now imagine that pressure vessel is miles long and any minor defect along its length will pancake any poor fool traveling inside.

[@blob2092]

i trust elon more then u, hes the man who invented the rocket to mars, the car who drive himself, he invent the free speech in the world on X, and what about you? You invent just a single youtubes comment ROFLMAO

[@Croz89]

In the end hyperloop has the same problems any form of high speed travel has, if you've got to carry squishy meatbags, you can't stop, start or turn too quickly or you'll kill or injure them. That holds true whether you run on steel rails, levitate over magnets or shoot through an evacuated tube. So stations have to be far apart and the line between them has to be as straight as possible, and that is what makes such things so expensive to build, not your choice of interface between your vehicle and the ground. Usually the cheapest way to go in a straight line is to go where there is nothing in the way, i.e. the sky.

[@SorasShadow1]

it's so frustrating to see so much money get pissed up a wall like this when we could have trains and public transport options instead of whatever the fuck fake scy-fy bullshit some tech bro thinks up while high off his shit

[@TylerDurden-pk5km]

Work harder - get a car!

[@offensivearch]

Investors spent their money. If you want a train, go build your own. A few hundred million were spent on R&D for hyperloop one. The Callifornia HSR project cost estimate recently rose again to $105 billion (more than double the initial cost). It makes more sense to R&D an idea that is orders of magnitude more efficient than spend 100 billion dollars on a train.

[@smithysmith4637]

@@TylerDurden-pk5km Thatcherism is out of vogue.

[@doujinflip]

​@@offensivearchIt's not more efficient. Hyperloop funds were just to validate a proof of concept, whereas HSR is bogged down by land acquisition and other legal costs that a real Hyperloop build would likewise face.

[@JohnS-il1dr]

​@@smithysmith4637so is Bidenomics

[@chumbawumba1959]

Jake, as a long time fan of your work ... I couldn't help but think was watching one of your great Disney "abandoned" vids about some ride that was designed, prototyped, but then canceled due to real construction costs and timelines far exceeding the early estimates. LOL

[@dirtyharry5320]

This is nothing new. The Beach Pneumatic Transit built in New York City in the 1870's was essentially a proto hyperloop. It never got past the prototyping stage. They built a station and a tunnel that was only a block long. It only operated for 3 years, then was largely forgotten about.

[@robertplatt1693]

We used pneumatic tubes to deliver measages in the 70s. I always wanted to use them to mix cocktails.

[@scottbrick9918]

They safety concern is what bothers me, we got several people traveling at hundreds of miles an hour in a pressured tube. One depressurization or pod failure could cause a catastrophic accident with no way to escape. I know I wouldn't want to travel this way. Not to mention the impracticality of the system

[@benji5597]

Listen, Elon Musk put Teslas, which are well-known for being on fire, in a tunnel in Los Angeles with no emergency exit. The same guy who laid off all the moderators of Twitter/X. Who violated basic security measures with his Space X projects...

[@daphne4407]

to be fair the same is true of planes and they just institute extra safety standards. but hsr would be far more reasonable

[@johnp139]

@@daphne4407Wrong! A plane can navigate down to a breathable level. If this thing broke then there was no way out!!!

[@scottbrick9918]

Yeah planes are far more safer, given someone is flying it

[@salland12]

@@daphne4407 Think of a soda can. When u havent cracked it open yet the sides are strong, When u crack it open it hisses and u can crumble the sides in if u want. Imagine if u would pull a vacuüm on a can, it would crush into its self. This is basically the problem with hyperloop. All the problems and dangers of air travel but now on the ground.

[@WilleWalla02]

I can imagine a bunch of people who haven't actually done any engineering in ages in a meeting going "AND THEN IT MAKES 5 GAZILLION DOLLARS AND GOES LIKE SO FAST"

[@zouyan]

The whole thing was a ploy to stop high speed rail in California, and sadly it worked.

[@Labyrinth6000]

Why sadly? I dont want to see it built. It will only benefit LA and SF, not to mention there are mountains in the way and it will not make it even go at its maximum speed without risking derailment. Plus, the biggest lawyers, land owners, farmers, and environmentalists are teaming up to sue the state for this project, thus delaying. Lastly, in 2025, I heard the budget is gonna be projected to be $150 BILLION. Almost 1/6 the cost of our entire interstate!

[@MrTVintro]

Ah yes, god forbid it benefit two of the highest population centers in the US.

[@soundscape26]

@@Labyrinth6000 "Only" LA and SF... just the two largest population centers in California. Also, the line would also serve a large chunk of the central valley so that's not even true.

[@OtherwiseUknownMonkey]

@@Labyrinth6000 have you...seen the plans...they are not going thru the mountains....and there are so little risks of derailment do you do even a bit of research how do you speak so confidently of a thing you have no idea about.

[@strayiggytv]

​@@Labyrinth6000 literally just sounds like sour grapes from you. Tell us the real reason you don't like it

[@geraldmarshall22]

The concept is about depressurized tubes not pressurized tubes. The proposed speeds required a vacuum or the system would burn up .

[@nem3th]

I dont get it, why US doest build hi-speed train lines over country, like rest of the world has. Where thousands of passangers would travel with all of they belongings and stuff . Who needs some small tube with ability to carry 1-4 persons max almost without luggage. How such scam can be even passed through.

[@slimjim2584]

The main reason is that the US has a restricted eminent domain system, both federally and by states, mostly due to abuse for "urban renewal" in the 1900s. Most of the rest of the world can seize land needed for lines much easier. The US is also MUCH less dense overall versus most of the world, and the few developed areas are very far apart from each other, making it expensive for smaller benefit. The US train network is also biased towards slow heavy freight, passengers generally take a much more flexible plane network except for some metro areas. The network effect of cars being able to go anywhere helps the purpose of cars as commutes are not centralized but random over huge areas. Lastly, every other rail system relies on HEAVY subsidies which the US has an entire party against any subsidy in any shape or form, so any projects will be doomed by the election/economic cycle. That and people will revolt against the idea of subsidizing "a train they wont use", bitter old NIMBYs who did have no retirement other than fixed SS incomes already do this with schools and other public services.

[@ItzBIULD]

Good news: it seems it's finally happening. Florida has built a high speed rail line between Miami and Orlando and Tampa, and California is currently working on one between Los Angeles and San Francisco, Plus the Acela line between Boston and DC has existed for years now.

[@L33tSkE3t]

I live in the U.S. and all I want is a functioning and useful Mass Transportation system, say like this crazy new thing made of an Engine and cars linked together like “Pods” I believe they’re called trains… There have been billions spent on special interest groups and Astro-turf campaigns created for the sole goal of destroying Trains and Mass Transportation projects and initiatives from people like the Koch brothers because they would benefit financially from keeping cars as the only viable transportation method in the U.S. Elon Musk has even tried very hard to keep the California High Speed Rail project from finishing because he wanted to build his stupid underground single vehicle pods and it has gone way over budget, granted for multiple reasons. The Hyperloop is unproven and unrealistic technology that in the off chance it were to be built, would just be another transportation method for the wealthy. We’re the wealthiest, most powerful and one of the most technologically advanced countries on the planet and we can’t even build a decent and comprehensive rail transportation infrastructure network anywhere outside major cities and really only the NY subway is any good and crap compared to those in other countries. I’m in my 20s, owning a car is expensive and not always the best for the environment depending on several circumstances. I would kill to be able to take a train or light-rail to work and back. I don’t feel like it should be too much to ask for us to have just the basic infrastructure built of a centuries old technology…

[@TylerDurden-pk5km]

Who wants a "mass" transport system as an inspiration- people want a individualized transport system ... not become part of a "mass".

[@hannahp1108]

@@TylerDurden-pk5km Literally billions of people all over the world use trains quite happily.

[@jetgdvsdfgd]

@@TylerDurden-pk5km how to tell the world you have under 80iq without telling the would

[@TylerDurden-pk5km]

@@hannahp1108 Being forced to use and "as an inspiration" (to strive for. for the future) are not the same things ...

[@TylerDurden-pk5km]

@@jetgdvsdfgd Very elegantly formulated.

[@calalos]

“Hey Elon, what about you hyping the vacum loop thing we’ve talked about, so I can get investor interested and a nice CEO payout out of it” “Suuuurrreee, you know you are my guy”

[@volvo09]

I would love to know at what point certain early "investors" cashed out amidst all the stupid hype.

[@jacekmarczyk4436]

Things like these should be conceived and designed by engineers, not billionaires.

[@tbillington]

Timely video, I drove past the abandoned Hyperloop test track just a couple of weeks ago and was wondering where it all went wrong.

[@MichaelfromtheGraves]

It all went wrong in that it was a terrible idea to begin with.

[@hans-joachimbierwirth4727]

The idea was never meant to materialize . It was intended as a prop for the Clinton/Obama campaign.

[@AnimalStomper]

You keep saying the tube is pressurised but isnt it the opposite its meant to be a vacuum so it is depressurised.

[@greybeardedgamer9383]

Yeah , he kept saying that.

[@offensivearch]

Yeah he should've said depressurized. Also hyperloop isn't a perfect vacuum (that would be a vactrain), hyperloop keeps some residual air pressure in the system

[@johnp139]

EXACTLY!!!!

[@ccoder4953]

@@offensivearch It's basically the same as a vacuum. Pretty much to get air pressures low enough to do what they were trying to do, you have to be most of the way to a vacuum. To the point where you have essentially the same set of problems as a low vacuum. Also, there is effectively no such thing as a perfect vacuum, especially at these scales. If you go listen to people who work with that sort of thing, you find out that all sorts of things you'd never expect outgas at low pressures. To the point where maintaining a low vacuum in even a small space can be challenging.

[@HappyJackington]

The picture at 6:26 is just insane, and fueled on some combination of drugs and self importance. There is no way San Fransisco would let a track block a shipping channel like that. Plus the moment any substantial earthquake hits or you have any major sea event, you would lose vacuum in the tube defeating the purpose of the whole thing.

[@zmark7843]

think about it, to make this work, you need a giant vacuum chamber, a pressure vessel to survive in said vacuum chamber, something to move and stop said pressure vessel in said vacuum chamber at ridiculous speed, and that's just the basics, i will take high speed rail or maglev over this anyday of the week

[@DiegoLlamasFabila]

The funny thing about bankrupt companies here in Guadalajara, México is that on a shopping mall called Patria mall, not only is there a Chuck e Cheese, but next to It Is a Bed Bath & Beyond.😂 BTW cool video, keep up the good work Jake!

[@cokesquirrel]

Dude you're kidding me there's a chuck E. cheese at plaza patria? Honestly I haven't seen a whole lot of empty places in malls Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places

[@rddj623]

Interesting to see this from the outside having worked for Virgin Hyperloop from February 2020 until the first big layoff in 2022. I was the onsite IT tech at the Apex facility in Nevada. Got to see the 2 passenger tests we did (a detail that was incorrectly stated in this video as 1) in person. It felt very much like trying to get to the moon must have felt for NASA in the 60's. I think ultimately a lack of commitment to the future is what did it in. The technology is so cutting edge that some of it doesn't exist yet. So it takes a longterm investor with patience to really see it through. A disappointmeant to see it fall by the wayside as we had such intelligent folks working on the tech. Alas. Hopefully someone does it.

[@brunoheggli2888]

Its just a stupid idea,thats all!

[@srenchin]

Even if the engineering problems of the hyperloop could be solved, the cost to benefit ratio would still kill the concept.

[@ccoder4953]

One of the things alot of people wildly underestimate is just how much force there is in atmospheric pressure. A vacuum chamber that big for that long, even if it's not a prefect vacuum, stores insane amounts of energy. We're talking about nuclear bomb levels of energy. If it should collapse, or a section rapidly depressurize, we're talking about an incredible shockwave that would likely destroy the track for many miles and kill anyone who happened to be inside. Thunderfoot on KZbin has had alot of fun taking this thing apart. While I don't agree with everything he says, he's right on this. Fact is, air resistance, if designed for properly, really isn't that big of a deal for stuff like trains. It's way easier to deal with that than deal with somehow building a giant vacuum chamber and even just keep it anywhere near the pressure its supposed to be. And while it might not be proposed to be a low vacuum, it's still plenty low enough to be a giant headache to build and maintain. For high speed trains, most of the air resistance comes from the front since trains are long and skinny. There's a little on the sides, but mostly just the front. That's really not that big of a deal, even at high speeds, at least not for something like a well designed train. Oh and don't forget the fact that shipping cargo by these things is especially stupid. Right now, cargo that doesn't need to be there fast ships by conventional train or boat because those are incredibly efficient. If it needs to be there fast, it ships by air. Somewhere in the middle, by truck. All these are massively cheaper, higher capacity, and more energy efficient than these pods. For humans, we mostly want to get where we're going fast. It's hard to beat an airplane for speed. And those are steadily getting better and more energy efficient. One thing to consider is commercial aviation basically IS travel in a low pressure environment. It's not a vacuum, but cruising altitude for commercial aviation is too low pressure for humans to remain conscious for very long. Except planes don't need expensive fixed tracks wherever they go. And they can actually travel faster because they can do much straighter routes than any land based system could do.

[@Axel_Andersen]

Agree with all that, but point out that for many distances trains beat air travel because of the delays in getting from city center to the plane and back. I regularly take a six hour flight, but the journey takes almost twelve hours. If there was a train high speed train I would use it. To get to the flight in time I need to leave home four hours early (via car) to be at the airport three hours before the flight to get through all the check in and security etc. And once at the destination wait half an hour for baggage and then a taxi that takes more than hour to get to the city center.

[@pntbll4me]

I came to the comments to see if anyone was going to reference Thunderfoots debunking of this. Thank you very much for posting this!

[@ccoder4953]

@@Axel_Andersen Agree that flights do have significant overhead that can make them not make sense for shorter trips. Your example could probably be optimized a bit (for example, they say 3 hours, but you rarely actually need that, especially if you have TSA Precheck). But regardless, there's definitely a distance below which other forms of transportation can be better than a flight. Mythbusters actually did that (car vs flight). But that also sort of implies you don't really need super high speed trains. If your distances aren't that long, it can be difficult for trains to even get up to really high speeds, especially if you want reasonably frequent stops. Regular high speed trains, like Brightline are probably fine for those sorts of distances. But if you aren't going crazy fast, then you don't really need to put your trains in a near vacuum because air resistance isn't that significant.

[@Axel_Andersen]

@@ccoder4953 Agree. City center to city center any train is very convenient for many distances and beats air planes, often high speed is not necessary. I'm from Scandinavia so TSA is not relevant for me and I know 3 hours before flight is usually an overkill but that is what they say I should do so travelling with wife that is what we do :)

[@freewheeler8924]

Space already *_is_* a vacuum: We should build the Hyperloop in space! Where's my billion-dollar funding?

[@SueBobChicVid]

Hyperbole Loop. Yes, I'm the time traveler.

[@etzenhammer]

Can someone please explain to me, how it could be possible to create a pipe hundreds of miles length with a vacuum, where one poke and a small hole would cause TERRIBLE collapse and essentially crush everything inside?

[@StephenDavidson5359]

The tubes aren’t pressurized…they are the opposite of pressurized.

[@MichaelfromtheGraves]

He's known for Disney World reviews, I knew it wasn't going to be the most accurate video. I wanted to give it a chance anyway. At least he got the conclusion right, this was all just a distraction from actual high speed rail investment.

[@edmccloskey9696]

If it were not for those damn physics !!!!

[@rbm7101]

Genesis II is a 1973 American made-for-television science fiction film. An elaborate "subshuttle" subterranean rapid transit system was constructed during the 1970s, due to the vulnerability of air transportation to attack. The subshuttles utilize a magnetic levitation rail system, and operate inside vactrain tunnels and travel at hundreds of miles per hour.

[@JohnDoe-tx8lq]

It was solving a problem that doesn't really exist. Trains work really well for short & long journeys, for heavy and light loads. Invest to keep improving them, not to replacement. Unfortunately these $Billion investors what HUGE profits from exciting projects rather than just a normal, decent return for improving everyday stuff we actually need.

[@dpie4859]

Anyone who understands physics and how difficult it is to work with near vacuum at sea level in a very long tube understand how stupid this project was.

[@Azure_Fire]

As a railfan, there's nothing more offensive than a train you cannot see.

[@Sig_P229]

They used this concept in the beginning of the Living Daylights, a James Bond movie

[@ArchonCommando]

That was a pipeline full of natural gas decidedly not a vacuum.

[@allanhope7018]

It was also in The World Is Not Enough when they go inside the oil pipeline to defuse the nuclear warhead from inside. I came here to comment that, actually.

[@Axel_Andersen]

@@allanhope7018 IIRC in Diamonds are Forever Bond went to the inside of a gas pipeline.

[@reprovedcandy]

High speed rail that already exists: *220mph* Hyperloop test run after $10B+ and 10 years: *110mph* Seems worth it.

[@RhelrahneTheIdiot]

Chuou Maglev: 313mph or 505km/h, already funded and under construction pending completion sometime around 2030. Tech proven over two decades ago.

[@neofromthewarnerbrothersic145]

I remember hearing about the proposed Transatlantic Tunnel back in the early 2000's, which would supposedly take you from New York to London in a few hours. I was a teenager so I thought it sounded rad. And yeah, it would be pretty rad if we could actually build these things. But it will stay in the realm of science fiction for the foreseeable future.

[@unnamedchannel1237]

Can you imagine if there was an issue down there . Pretty much everybody would die

[@neofromthewarnerbrothersic145]

@@unnamedchannel1237 Pure nightmare fuel.

[@kylewhitt587]

Turns out it was all a pipe dream

[@kylegerbrandt]

Maybe we just need a new marketing campaign for Trains: HyperTrains!

[@Marmocet]

Hyperloop was always a concept that any competent engineer could determine was infeasible after doing about ten minutes of back of the envelope calculations.

[@averyeml]

Nothing makes you realize how truly stupid the US is being about trains and other public transit like spending even a brief time wandering around almost any other country. Being able to land in a country and just… go wherever, with no real stress outside of tickets selling out for a specific train or something, has absolutely changed my life lol

[@pappi8338]

Land of the free (if you have a car)

[@johnmilovich2195]

"Massive hype." Elon Musk distilled in two words.

[@djdogstar7385]

This "vacuum tube" transportation system works spectacularly well between deep underground facilities - you can travel from the east coast to the west coast in a little under 2 hours at Mach 2 without seeing sunlight. The technology was perfected a while ago. Gotta love Special Access Projects. All that money, you just have no idea.

[@glennac]

Anyone getting a Theranos vibe? Astronomical promises, abuses of staff, shifting excuses and goals.